German Audio Specialties Passive Crossover Network for DSP E39s

[jeffb325]

German Audio Specialties E39/E53 Passive Crossover Network

We just started carrying a new product that I think a lot of you guys are going to find VERY interesting.....well.....particularly if you have a DSP audio system you might find it VERY interesting.... While my interest in these is mostly Dynavin/Avin related they can be used in many different configurations to solve any number of install related problems.

There are bound to be a lot of technical questions so lets keep this thread clean and use this space to share information, post installs, share results, etc....


This is not a sales thread so keep your inquiries elsewhere, email me or visit our website: www.jandtdistributing.com





This is kind of complicated but follow along......this product is very specialized but solves a big problem that has been a headache for E39 owners for a long time.

FYI, an E53 X5 specific version is available as well.


THE PROBLEM:
As many of you know doing a stereo head unit or amp upgrade on the BMW 5 series and X5s, particularly those equipped with the DSP audio system is VERY problematic, these cars have an unusual setup in which the stereo in the dash and the amplifier in the trunk are (electrically speaking) one unit. If you remove the head unit you kill the amp.

The traditional solution has long been to replace the amp with a conventional aftermarket amp BUT there is an additional problem. The E39 amp has 10 channels with every speaker being run off of its own individual amp channel. The crossovers (splitting up the signal and sending the correct frequencies to the correct speakers) is done inside the amp.
There is no easy way to address this and usually results in an expensive, complicated multi-amp setup with custom made crossovers and/or a processor and/or replacing ALL the speakers in the car, OR worst case scenario just a hack job to get a few speakers working.

These issues have greatly limited the ability to upgrade the stereos in these cars as it is basically an "all or nothing" proposition. If you want to replace the head unit....you have to do everything else too....and in the end the results and expense have varied greatly depending on the equipment used and the skill of the installer.

In other words, its a mess.


THE SOLUTION:
The German Audio Specialties E39-PCN allows you to remove your factory amplifier and replace it with any decent 4 or 5 channel aftermarket car audio amplifier while retaining your factory speakers. The PCN takes 4 channels of an amp's full range output and splits it up into the 10 appropriate channels needed to run the oem speakers, sending the correct frequencies and correct levels to each speaker resulting in great sound quality, simplified installation, and reduced cost. If you use a 5 channel amp (or a second amp) you can use the fifth channel to run the stock "subwoofers" in the rear deck or a conventional trunk sub. For best results use an amp with continuously variable crossovers so you can dial in the crossover point between the mids and sub (most decent amps will have this).


EDIT: Due to customer demand I'm now offering the crossover paired up with an appropriate amp, for now it will be the Soundstream PN5.640D, its a nice match with the crossovers requirements, is tiny in size, is decent quality, and is reasonably priced. Plus when you buy them together you can save a few bucks. See my website for more details.

You of course dont have to use this amp, as mentioned below there are countless options, Im just trying to simplify things a bit due to the amp related questions we have been receiving.




Those of you who are looking for specific amp recommendations...Ive said any decent name brand amp is fine and can provide the one above but Luke from German Audio Specialties added some more details deeper in this thread...Quoted from page 3 of this thread:

Lets talk about 5 channel amplifiers for a minute.

There are a few things you need to make sure you look for. First and foremost, if you have a subwoofer, IMO, you need a knob on the dash to adjust levels. Personally, I listen to an enormous range of music, and let me tell you, when you go from Robert Cray to Pablo Cruise and then to Primus, you had better have subwoofer level control handy, and continuously adjustable is so much nicer. So, a sub knob is a necessity, IMO.

Second, you need continuously adjustable, separate high and low pass filters. You need to be able to adjust between 80Hz and 120Hz, depending on the slope of the crossover and your personal taste.

Third, you need it to have a "4 channel input mode" IF you have a deck that has no dedicated subwoofer output, or plan to use the stock deck.

The one I listen to daily is a cheap Planet Audio AC1800.5. It meets all of those requirements, plays pretty darn nice actually, and is about $135.

The beast currently in my sig is my personal favorite, the Soundstream REF5.1000. MSRP was $1000, it is the best sounding amplifier I have ever heard in a car, period. You can find that thing for about $450, easily.

If you want to spend more, feel free, but the price of spectacular performance is so low these days, its just amazing what you get for your money.

Luke

Using the German Audio Specialties E39 PCN to take the stock amp out of the equation allows for any of the following:
-replacement of the factory stereo in a DSP equipped car with an aftermarket head unit (like a dynavin, plug, plug, haha).
-adding an amp and the PCN allows for higher levels of performance from an otherwise stock system for those who wish to retain the stock deck and speakers.
-A more cost effective, higher performance option for those who wish to replace the stock amplifier due to failure.


No they are not cheap, BUT they are designed specifically for the E39 DSP system, constructed by hand using only the highest quality components, and matched exactly to your cars speakers, frankly far less expensive than pursuing a completely custom solution that may be hit and miss at best!



Check out this installation walk through tutorial, its not "plug and play," but it is pretty straightforward once you understand the basics, its all color coded and is basically just a matter of matching up wires and making splices. Pretty standard audio stuff, anyone with a little audio or mechanical experience and some basic tools should be able to handle it. If its beyond what you are comfortable with contact a car audio shop or decent auto tech for assistance.



Credit to Luke at German Audio Specialties for writing up the following:

E39 DSP G.A.S. Crossover Install Hey there! Today, we will be doing a quick walkthrough on how to install the German Audio Specialties E39 DSP Passive Crossover Network, AKA the "PCN". First, let me explain the purpose of this product: this PCN allows you to remove your factory amplifier and replace it with a normal 4 or 5 channel aftermarket car audio amplifier while retaining your factory speakers. The goal of the PCN is simple, but multifold. The PCN allows replacement of the factory deck with an aftermarket "head unit" and/or allows far higher levels of performance for those who wish to retain the stock deck. In addition to those looking to improve performance, this is a cost effective option for those who simply wish to replace the stock amplifier due to failure. Either way, our primary goal is to allow replacement of the factory amplifier. However, a wonderful side benefit of this product is that it produces extraordinary sound quality, far surpassing the "expected" level of performance. We will get into the details of how and why this PCN produces such incredible sound using the original speakers at some point, but for now let us just say that this performance is especially impressive given the generally underwhelming performance of those same speakers when powered by the factory amplifier. You can expect sound quality of a very high order when using this product, assuming two things: first, that your original speakers are in good condition and that this product was properly installed. As said above, the goal is a simple installation, but do not kid yourself, this installation requires skill and patience. If you have read this entire tutorial and are still convinced you will cause yourself grief, please contact us, as we have several installers willing to provide their talents professionally. The last thing we want is to hear of our hard work in designing, building and marketing this product being wasted sitting on a shelf! OK, on to the install. First, lets all hope you already know where the factory amp is, but just in case you don't, here it is (in this case with a partially hacked harness): The first step is to remove the side panel of the trunk. You will be running wires and making connections in here, so just pull it. While you are there, go ahead and pull the stock amplifier and CD changer. We got a lovely surprise when we pulled this one: Yay, a big snarly mess of wire! These cars are almost always a nightmare when typical installers get hold of them, primarily because they are so challenging to interface with. Here is what we found: Oh yeah, we also removed the BMW cell phone, its brackets and all, then tied up the wiring. We only need the stock amplifier harness for our purposes here. Tied up mess of cell wires: So, the first thing you want to do is ascertain which wires you need. As stated earlier, you will be using 20 wires from the stock amplifier harness to connect the outputs of the PCN. Lets talk about the harness of the PCN just for a second and how the color coding works. When you look at your beautiful PCN, you will see there are two "banks" of wiring. One is Yellow and Black, the other is Blue and Black. Each of those banks terminate in a normal ATX plug and color-coded outputs. Our color coding is intended to correlate precisely with the factory wiring scheme. For example when you look at your factory harness, you will see it is primarily composed of twisted pairs of yellow and blue wires with color-coded stripes: The 20 (10 per "bank) output wires are the same colors as the stripes used on the factory wires. You will see they are separated into pairs of wires intended to connect to a twisted pair on the amp harness. For example: Yellow bank, red and brown pair of wires (Left Front Woofer) connects to yellow/red and yellow/brown of the factory harness. I hope this makes sense, once you understand the logic it is very easy to follow. Don't overthink this! Blue bank, black and silver pair connect to blue/black and blue/silver, etc. Yes, it is a lot of wires, so take your time in getting an understanding for how it works, but in reality it is just as simple as 10 pairs of wires connect to the factory harness. (E34PCN shown here) So, now that part is starting to make sense, here is what you wanna do: First, choose where you want to put your crossover. Yes, it can easily fit in the stock amplifier location. That particular part of the install is all up to the installer. Stray magnetic field can change the performance of the PCN, so we recommend not mounting it directly to the woofer, but aside from that, it is all up to you. In the examples shown, we will be installing a full GAS system including the PCN, one of our custom-fit chassis specific enclosures and our truly unique "Amp Racks". Due to how we chose to install the PCN, we found it necessary to extend all 20 of the factory speaker wires. If you choose to install the PCN in place of the factory amplifier, extending the harness should not be necessary. So what you want to do now is separate the speaker wires from the rest of the harness. As said above, there are 10 pairs. 5 of these pairs will be blue, 5 pairs yellow and all 20 will have stripes. Here is how they are arranged in twisted pairs: Yellow/? is left channel, Blue/? is right channel. We will show only the left channel, as the right channel wiring is identical. Yellow/White and Yellow/Brown: Left Front Tweeter (+/-): White and Brown Yellow/Green and Yellow/Brown: Left front Midrange (+/-): Green and Brown Yellow/Red and Yellow/Brown: Left front Woofer (+/-): Red and Brown Yellow/Black and Yellow/Gray: Left Rear Tweeter (+/-): Black and Gray Yellow/Violet and Yellow/Gray: Left rear Woofer (+/-): Violet and Gray I can only assume by now you see the logic of the coding. Brown stripes go to brown wires, blue bank goes to blue wires, etc. It is absolutely imperative that each of these wires are properly connected, we cannot stress this enough. So, now you have decided where you are locating the crossover and have a solid understanding of both our color codes and the factory colors, lets proceed. First thing is to test each speaker. Even though we know the codes. we still want to test each individual speaker so we know they will work as described. To do this we HIGHLY recommend you disconnect whatever radio is in the dash before proceeding. You will use a normal "9V" battery in this procedure, so lets get to it. First, you already have the wires separated. You will now cut each pair from the factory harness, one pair at a time. When cutting, we recommend you leave at least a couple of inches of the wire available to re-connect the plug if needed. (Quick note: as far as we are aware, factory amplifier plugs are not available for this chassis. The factory amplifier can be taken apart and the stock plugs utilized after removing them from the circuit boards. This is an advanced procedure so should you choose this option, please share your methods!) So, at this point you should have 10 pairs of color coded wires loose from the harness. Go ahead and strip approximately 1/4" from each wire. Now, take that 9V battery and quickly touch the two terminals of the battery to whatever twisted pair of wires you choose: What you will hear from the speaker is a small "click". This testing procedure is a very common method used by thousands of installers every day, but it is not without risk. Do this testing at your own risk as you may (incredibly unlikely) blow up a speaker or blow up your radio (again, unlikely and I told you to remove it first!). In an ideal world, you will have someone in the car that can pinpoint exactly which speaker "popped" just to double-check your wiring of the crossover. So, that being said, lets make some connections! Personally, I just grab the left (yellow bank) plug, remove it from the crossover and begin connecting.

So, here is that stock harness: Here are the wires needed untangled and re-wrapped: Now, lets strip and crimp all 20 wires: So, lets check status again. You should at this point have 20 wires from your crossover connected to 10 speakers you have already individually tested. Now, lets connect wires to go to your amplifier. There are 8 remaining wires of the 28 total (ignore the jumper loops for now) These 8 wires correlate to standard IEC aftermarket car audio color codes Yellow Bank Left Front: White and Black Left Rear: Green and Black Blue Bank Right Front: Gray and Black Right Rear: Purple and Black Now you can connect those wires to your aftermarket amplifier and begin tuning!

Nice Work G.A.S!

[shortedaman]

Whats with the double posts.

[jeffb325]

Reserved

[bfp9]

Yes. This is clutch. I am guessing you will be able to sell a ton of these - especially if you head over to the M5Board and advertise there - huge customer base there as well.

[jeffb325]

Yeah, every M5 has nav with dsp.... So it will be pretty useful to those guys...

[BMWPlanetDude]

Nice concept but does it come boxed or just as is as a big board like that?
Also not too sure on the commercial viability of having to slice 20 wires of your original amplifier harness? No plug available?
For a few of us it is fine but for somebody useless with tools and wires not so much of diy

[edjack]

This product assumes you are replacing the head unit, since the original unit has a digital output. However, it DOES appear to offer a clean solution to the problem.

[Alpina540i]

Price is high but nice work on the unit should come with an enclosure ready for mounting.

[jeffb325]

Nice concept but does it come boxed or just as is as a big board like that?
Also not too sure on the commercial viability of having to slice 20 wires of your original amplifier harness? No plug available?
For a few of us it is fine but for somebody useless with tools and wires not so much of diy

as I said in my writeup, and luke said in his, if splicing wires is too much, see an installer. As an installer Im often surprised by how terrified my fellow BMW owners are of cutting wires.....it just doesnt scare us installers that much (I of course dont like seeing a hack job, but some clean splices are fine) Keep in mind those wires are getting cut ANY time you try to do ANYTHING with a DSP system so this is not different in that respect. At least with this crossover all the correct signals will be sent to the right places. A DSP amp plug would be nice but as far as G.A.S. has seen they dont currently exist (without stealing them out of dead DSP amps)....and custom tooling one would be VERY expensive I suspect, but in any case ill pass on the request.

This product assumes you are replacing the head unit, since the original unit has a digital output. However, it DOES appear to offer a clean solution to the problem.

My interest in these is related to head unit replacements.....but the DSP system does NOT have a digital connection between the head and amp. If Im not mistaken Luke has recently done one of these installs that maintained the stock head unit, Ill see if he is on this forum to comment on it....

Price is high but nice work on the unit should come with an enclosure ready for mounting.

G.A.S. does not do enclosures on any of their crossovers (they make them for a number of BMWs) as they are often used in custom amp rack type installs, also if you are mounting it in the stock amp location WITH an amp the mounting will vary greatly depending on what amp you use and how you mount it. I dont think they intend this to be a simple "plug and play", begginer level type of product, its a specific product with a specific purpose that solves a specific problem within the context of a larger install project. How to mount it is at the discretion of the installer.

[Stück]

The stock HU will output in analog when the DSP amp is not present.

[jeffb325]

Thanks for the clarification Stuck.

[Dat Aus]

I have factory navigation with DSP. If I wanted to retain my OEM head unit (16:9) and go for an aftermarket amp and speaker setup, this would do the job for me?

[jeffb325]

no, the point here is to maintain the stock speakers (or use BSW). Kind of the opposite of what you are proposing.....

If you are going conventional aftermarket speakers they will come with their own crossovers.

[Dat Aus]

I see. Thanks.

Why would anyone want to retain the stock speakers? They're terrible.

[auaq]

Because ....

[jeffb325]

because they can sound pretty good when provided with a good amount of power, crossed over correctly, and provided with a clean source..... and replacing them you will find is not a simple task......non standard sizes in a non standard arraignment. Replacing them is expensive, complicated, and less than optimal in a bunch of ways... Thats why G.A.S. came up with this crossover in the first place.

[Stück]

I see. Thanks.

Why would anyone want to retain the stock speakers? They're terrible.

Because... you're ignorant.

With a clean source, and clean amplification the stock speakers can and will sound phenomenal.

This crossover makes it cheap to do and do well at that.

[Stereoinstaller1]

There are bound to be a lot of technical questions so lets keep this thread clean and use this space to share information, post installs, share results, etc....


This is not a sales thread so keep your inquiries elsewhere, email me or visit our website if you want that kind of info: http://www.jandtdistributing.com/col...w-e39-5-series
Nice Work G.A.S!

Thanks, Jeff! Introducing a completely new product is tough, so your support really means a lot to us here at G.A.S.

First, good news! As far as I can tell, all E39's use the same speakers. We have confirmed with 7 different E39s VINs that the DSP and non-DSP cars use exactly the same part numbers for their speakers, as do the 2 E38's I have VINs for. The samples were across several years, engines, transmissions and were both DSP and non-DSP systems.

What this means is that this crossover network will do its magic in ALL E38s and E39s with the exception of the "M Audio" cars. If you have a weird car with different speakers, please send me your VIN so I can add to our database.

By the way, we are hoping to have the X53 nailed down this coming week, adding to the E34 and E46 we already have covered. If you have a question as to it working for your car or not, please send me a PM with the last 7 of your VIN and I will get back to you as quickly as possible.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. This is clutch. I am guessing you will be able to sell a ton of these - especially if you head over to the M5Board and advertise there - huge customer base there as well.

We sure hope so! Such a wonderful car, but the stereo frankly sucks. This crossover, even when used with a cheap $150 amp can make excellent sound, even if the stock subwoofer is used. Of course they were designed to be used in conjunction with our subwoofers, but the idea is to be versatile and not everyone wants that level of bass performance.

- - - Updated - - -

Nice concept but does it come boxed or just as is as a big board like that?
Also not too sure on the commercial viability of having to slice 20 wires of your original amplifier harness? No plug available?
For a few of us it is fine but for somebody useless with tools and wires not so much of diy

Big box? No sir, it is only 8" x 9" and fits where the stock amplifier fits on most BMWs. Most people find it so aesthetically pleasing they don't want to cover it!

We are currently developing an installer network of qualified techs who are willing to install this product for those who choose not to DIY. Our goal is a national group who all share their experiences and skills to make an even better product.

We are also researching what it would take to develop a plug to replicate the amplifiers plugs, but from what we see so far it would nearly double the price. It's a 20 year old car, the mods are simple and far less hackery than some bozo trying to shove some aftermarket junk where it doesn't fit well, since all of that junk is designed to fit a Honda...er...well, lets be a bit more tactful and say that the factory amplifier can easily be re-installed after the wires have been re-connected.

We do have a couple of DSP amps that we have taken the plugs from specifically to make adapters that will allow full plug-n-play. Any qualified tech could do the same and simply mount it where the stock amplifier is, stock mounting bracket and all.

- - - Updated - - -

This product assumes you are replacing the head unit, since the original unit has a digital output. However, it DOES appear to offer a clean solution to the problem.

As already addressed, the DSP decks will revert to normal variable output once disconnected from the stock DSP amplifier.

However, the stock DSP harness does not have enough wires in it to allow for front and rear signals; we had to run 2 more wires from the back of the deck.

I have not yet tested the DSP trick on a Nav deck. If anyone is interested in doing so, lets talk. Shoot me a PM, I will show you how to test.

- - - Updated - - -

Price is high but nice work on the unit should come with an enclosure ready for mounting.

If you were to compare a price list of the parts we use, you would quickly see that the profit is just not that high on this product. If we were to add even a simple metal bracket it would add to the labor time, which adds to the cost. If we were selling 2500 of these a week we could easily cover that, but that is not likely to happen, ever. This is a niche product aimed at people who can successfully: A) drill some holes or B) pay someone else to drill some holes.

- - - Updated - - -

I see. Thanks.

Why would anyone want to retain the stock speakers? They're terrible.

No Sir, they are in fact excellent, far superior to most all "affordable" car audio speakers. The issue is no one has ever seriously studied them until now, that is why we built this...its about time!

Thanks!
Luke Fisher
German Audio Specialties

[kapone]

Interesting concept. The unit does look very well made. I do have a couple of questions though.

1. Since the DSP amp gets junked in favor of this passive crossover network (and external amplification), what happens to the time alignment that the DSP amp was doing? The stock DSP amp does do time alignment (although it's fixed), in addition to crossover and amplification duties.

2. Since you're removing the DSP amp, and the radio reverts to analog operation, you lose the Graphic Equalizer option as well, and this won't come back even if you use external amplification. Correct?

3. Since this unit splits the output of a 4 channel amp into 10 channels, I'm assuming this handles the stock front 3 ways and the rear doors. Correct? If this is the case, how do you handle the rear deck woofers, and their crossover? Or am I missing something?

4. This assumes that the 4 channel amp you're using has defeatable internal crossovers, otherwise, there would be issues with double crossovers. Correct?

5. While this is certainly a great concept, I'm kind of wondering something. The stock speakers will generally be 10+ years old at this point for most of these cars. And new replacements just for the 4 doors run about $750 (current pricing from Tischer BMW, which is very competitive). $750 will buy a real nice set of components (with their crossovers) for both front and rear doors, but then you cannot use this crossover network. And unless you replace 10+ yr old speakers, I kind of fail to see the point of adding a real nice crossover network and external amplification. Am I off base here?

[auaq]

Would you happen to have a before and after demonstration video as I'm interested in how the stock speakers sound?

[Stück]

Would you happen to have a before and after demonstration video as I'm interested in how the stock speakers sound?

You're joking right? How they sound through a cellphone camera's cheap mic, and a lousy set of computer speakers?

I think this product is lost on this forum, completely lost.

I've been saying how great the stock speakers are for years, so has Luke. If you buy this crossover, pair it with a decent amplifier, and AREN'T blown away I betcha $5 Luke of Jeff would be happy to take a return.

If you don't want to hack up your own amplifier go to a junkyard and buy a spare amp for the connectors. Desolder them and make your plug & play harness.

Personally I'll be picking up one of these to put in my wife's E39 Touring, going to keep the stock CD53 HU, and push everything with a Arc Audio XDI804. I expect it will more than blow away my wife.

[auaq]

Well, I'm no expert in sound systems and have little knowledge about it. Just wanted to know the difference. That's all.

[Dat Aus]

Because... you're ignorant.

With a clean source, and clean amplification the stock speakers can and will sound phenomenal.

This crossover makes it cheap to do and do well at that.

You're right. I am quite ignorant when it comes to car audio.

So how would I go about getting the OEM speakers to sound decent whilst retaining the OEM head unit (16:9 nav)? This contraption would do that?

[Stück]

Stock head unit is perfectly fine. Obviously a good aftermarket unit will sound better, but there is still a HUGE improvement to be had with this crossover while retaining the OE head.

Get yourself a nice quality 4 or 5 channel amplifier and this cross over and BAM.

This crossover does not provide filtering for the DSP sub box, only for all the interior speakers. If you have/want to use the DSP sub box buy a 5 channel amplifier that is 2ohm stable for the mono channel and bridge the DSP woofers to a mono 2ohm load.

The stock speakers don't need a lot of power to sound good, they just need clean power. 100x4 is more than enough.

[Stereoinstaller1]

You're right. I am quite ignorant when it comes to car audio.

So how would I go about getting the OEM speakers to sound decent whilst retaining the OEM head unit (16:9 nav)? This contraption would do that?

Yes Sir, exactly that, assuming your factory Nav unit does, in fact do the "DSP Trick" which I cannot verify...yet.

In fact, if anyone in the Seattle or Portland area has a Nav equipped E39 or X53 and is willing to let an old man play with their car a little, please get in touch.

- - - Updated - - -

Would you happen to have a before and after demonstration video as I'm interested in how the stock speakers sound?

No Sir, we have not yet done any video. I completely agree with Stuck though, video will not show the difference in SQ very effectively. We will be filming peoples reactions to first hearing this, some of those reactions have been just priceless!