Peake Code 78 (Vehicle Speed) and more

[das borgen]

Hey guys

This morning I started to get some codes on my car on my drive to work and the car felt down on power


Peake Code Table 0F
codes from that tablr are
21: Camshaft VANOS Control cyl 1-4
78: Vehicle Speed
3E: Misfire random multiple cylinders

My DSC/ABS lights are also on. Could this be due to the Vehicle Speed code?
Can the random multiple misfire be a consequence of the Vehicle Speed code?

My speedometer works. I know the E36 speedo works when you get a vehicle speed code because vehicle speed and speedo readout come from 2 different sensors. I assume it's the same way on the E38 with a Vehicle Speed code triggered for one of the wheel speed sensors failing and not the speedo's source being a separate sensor on the Final Drive



thanks for any insight

[purplecty]

Bad Cps will cause misfires. Ive heard, if it throws a code its definitely bad. So bank 1 (passenger side cps) is it misfiring on bank 1( cyl. 1-4)??? Other code most likely a speed sensor or wiring...

[das borgen]

Bad Cps will cause misfires. Ive heard, if it throws a code its definitely bad. So bank 1 (passenger side cps) is it misfiring on bank 1( cyl. 1-4)??? Other code most likely a speed sensor or wiring...

misfire was mutliple and random.....it wasn't on any particular bank. the code caught 7, 1 and 3 specifically I think (I could be wrong....let me doublecheck later)

which speed sensor goes bad to cause the Vehicle Speed code to pop up? From my experience with other BMWs it is one specific of the 4 that throws that code (E36s is left rear I believe)

[burninator]

I would love to know the answer to this, as I also have the same code and associated CEL, ABS, and DSC idiot lights.

[purplecty]

The one furthest from the abs unit. Driver side rear... But if you have or know someone with inpa you can see them working in real time to pinpoint exactly which one is not operating correctly...

[das borgen]

The one furthest from the abs unit. Driver side rear... But if you have or know someone with inpa you can see them working in real time to pinpoint exactly which one is not operating correctly...

will do....now paging billh

I have the INPA/NCSE/etc system but I don't have any computers with XP to use it....Won't work with Windows7-64bit

how exactly does one find these readings within INPA? for Vehicle Speed and Camshaft position readings?

[purplecty]

Gota go into the dsc to see speed sensors and i believe dme for cps... No experience with cps readings in inpa. Plus i have m62 not m62tu... Poke around with inpa. Very easy!

[das borgen]

drove home and here's the exhaustive list of code
table 0F:
21: Vehicle Speed
3E: Misfire random multiple cylinders
32, 34, (2 more): misfire cyl1, cyl2, cyl3, cyl 4
1B: mixture control off idle cyl5-8
1A: mixture contrl off idle cyl1-4
0d: precat o2 heater cyl 1-4

(no misfire codes on ANY of the bank 2)
based on this, I seems I need a CPS for bank 1 and some o2 sensors to go with that rear left wheel speed sensor


my plan is to swap bank 1-->2 CPSs and see if the misfire codes follow the CPS

any other thoughts? am I nuts?

thanks, guys!

[purplecty]

You can... but ide just get a new cps, clear codes and see how it runs after... Should clear up the misfires and possibly o2 codes... See what pops up after the cps change... Oh yeah and before anything check voltage...

[stritarja]

Peake code 78 (=P0500) is often seen with ABS problems but is not specific for any wheel sensor. You need to read specific ABS codes (which Peake tool and OBD scanners cannot do) with INPA or DIS. The odds are you will get a wheel sensor fault code, but the problem is that about 50% of the time, ABS sensor codes are caused by a faulty ABS/DSC module, and it can be difficult to figure out if it's the sensor or the ABS/DSC module. If you get a specific wheel sensor error you could swap the the left and right sides and see if the fault code moves to the other side. If it doesn't, check all the wiring from the sensor connector to the ABS/DSC module, and if that's ok send the module out to be rebuilt. The least expensive and most reliable re-builder is probably BBA Remanufacturing - $99 with free shipping both ways if you buy the rebuild on ebay.

But, do you still see code 78? Your latest post says "21: Vehicle Speed," but Peake code 21 is "Camshaft VANOS control, Cyl#1-4." This could be caused by a bad CPS, but you should still see a specific CPS code, which is not on your latest list of fault codes. A good start would be to swap the two CPS's as you suggested, which would give you a chance to inspect the wiring and connectors. But, together with your misfire codes, I think you have a different problem. Have you had the valve cover gaskets replaced recently?

I don't know how the mixture codes fit with the vanos code. You might try disconnecting the MAF and see if your car runs more smoothly.

[das borgen]

Peake code 78 (=P0500) is often seen with ABS problems but is not specific for any wheel sensor. You need to read specific ABS codes (which Peake tool and OBD scanners cannot do) with INPA or DIS. The odds are you will get a wheel sensor fault code, but the problem is that about 50% of the time, ABS sensor codes are caused by a faulty ABS/DSC module, and it can be difficult to figure out if it's the sensor or the ABS/DSC module. If you get a specific wheel sensor error you could swap the the left and right sides and see if the fault code moves to the other side. If it doesn't, check all the wiring from the sensor connector to the ABS/DSC module, and if that's ok send the module out to be rebuilt. The least expensive and most reliable re-builder is probably BBA Remanufacturing - $99 with free shipping both ways if you buy the rebuild on ebay.

But, do you still see code 78? Your latest post says "21: Vehicle Speed," but Peake code 21 is "Camshaft VANOS control, Cyl#1-4." This could be caused by a bad CPS, but you should still see a specific CPS code, which is not on your latest list of fault codes. A good start would be to swap the two CPS's as you suggested, which would give you a chance to inspect the wiring and connectors. But, together with your misfire codes, I think you have a different problem. Have you had the valve cover gaskets replaced recently?

I don't know how the mixture codes fit with the vanos code. You might try disconnecting the MAF and see if your car runs more smoothly.

the valve cover gaskets seem pretty fresh and new.....how would they cause concerns?

I don't see any oil seeping anywhere but i haven't checked inside the spark plug openings

[stritarja]

The impulse sending wheel may have been damaged accidentally when the valve cover gaskets were replaced (link), causing false CPS signals and VANOS timing errors.

[das borgen]

The impulse sending wheel may have been damaged accidentally when the valve cover gaskets were replaced (link), causing false CPS signals and VANOS timing errors.

good call

anyway

I went for a quick test drive

I removed the bank 1 sensor, moved bank 2 sensor to bank 1 and put on a spare BMW CPS on bank 2 (I know people, LOL).........I got no misfire codes at all after a test drive and there was less sluggishness...Only code still there was the 0F-21 code (camshaft control 1-4)
I am thinking the impulse wheel is either damaged or the VANOS was mistimed when the prev owner did the timing chain guides (he showed me the old ones and damn was he lucky). He did the VCGs when he did the guides



Vehicle Speed code has not returned yet but it will...I just need to get to a buddy who has INPA/etc and figure out exactly what it is before tackling it

[stritarja]

Check the connector and wires to the vanos solenoid.

Are the DSC/ABS lights still on?

[das borgen]

Check the connector and wires to the vanos solenoid.

Are the DSC/ABS lights still on?

i checked the wiring to the solenoids already and they're both fine....

I also tried giving each vanos solenoid 12V via a plug i borrowed from a friend who made it with an injector plug and both solenoids worked

yes, the DSC/ABS lights are on

[purplecty]

good call

anyway

I went for a quick test drive

I removed the bank 1 sensor, moved bank 2 sensor to bank 1 and put on a spare BMW CPS on bank 2 (I know people, LOL).........I got no misfire codes at all after a test drive and there was less sluggishness...Only code still there was the 0F-21 code (camshaft control 1-4)
I am thinking the impulse wheel is either damaged or the VANOS was mistimed when the prev owner did the timing chain guides (he showed me the old ones and damn was he lucky). He did the VCGs when he did the guides

Vehicle Speed code has not returned yet but it will...I just need to get to a buddy who has INPA/etc and figure out exactly what it is before tackling it

No shame in testing things before spending money... Good luck!

[das borgen]

l, I spoke to soon........back to square one


I drove it for a bit to go to the post office and the codes back........random multiple misfires, misfires on each of the bank 1 cylinders (none on bank 2) and Camshaft VANOS control cyl 1-4

any other ideas?

thanks

[das borgen]

well,
I'm tearing down into the motor

compression test showed low compression on cyl 1 and 2 at the very least (shop didn't do more for fear of bent valves)
I got the car back to my place to do the work myself



I tore into the car promptly and I dropped the oil pan. Thanks to an endoscope (along with the dropping of the oil pan) I confirmed the timing chain guides were in perfect condition and there were no chunks of guide in there


The engine could have been mistimed, causing the codes from the original post, yes?


One thing though. I think my headgasket may have failed. Is it possible for a HG leak to be leaving residual pressure in the cooling system
Although I should note also that there was no majorly noticeable oil in the coolant or vice versa.


I'm gonna pull the heads. Can I remove them with the exhaust manifolds bolted on them? I'm not sure it's possible to get to the manifold-to-head nuts with the heads on the car. Can anyone advise there?



also this video is awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=4MiYtvbK4JY

Timing was off..no obvious cracks, no bad valves...
surprising? yes

[das borgen]

bank 2 update



no blows of the HG between any oil/water jackets. there was a light blow between 6 and 7 but this bank's cylinders look just as good as bank 1's cylinders

technique to pulling left head?
1) unbolt right motor mount
2) bolt head to block
3) lift up engine by left cyl head's lift eye
4) unbolt headers
5) drop engine back onto motor mount
6) pull left head without headers

Bank 1 head (rigght side) can be pulled with the exhaust manifold on it

you cannot pull the left side head without either removing the steering column or the exhaust manifold

heads going to a shop tomorrow to check for trueness, cracks and for cleaning by hot tank

I'm excited to save this 7. This is my 1st time undertaking such a massive job on any car I've ever owned and I wouldn't have had the courage to do so without forumgoer "billh"'s help.

[purplecty]

You rock!

[das borgen]

You rock!

Honestly, I don't

BillH is the one that rocks

[das borgen]

Machine shop quoted a smidge over 200 to mill, hot tank and pressure check both heads

[das borgen]

Machine Shop report
One head was warped
no cracks
no bent valves
they're cleaned and machined down both 9 thousandths per my direction (0.2286mm) --> as opposed to just doing the one that was warped (the warping explains the residual gas pressure in the cooling system.

now I ask the forum
There's 2 different stock HGs. 1 that is factory spec and another one that is 0.3mm thicker in case of machining needed. I could use the factory spec and get a bump in compression from the 9.0:1 of the stock M62TU (or was it 10.0:1?) or play it safe with the +0.3mm HG

any thoughts here??

[das borgen]

anyone?

[das borgen]

I got me some head tonight