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Thread: Mobil 0w40 vs Mobil 10w40 High Mileage

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    Mobil 0w40 vs Mobil 10w40 High Mileage

    Was thinking of converting to Mobil 10w40 HM, my 3 burns oil, thought perhaps the 10w40 might burn a bit less. Any opinions on changing?
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    One meets spec and one doesn't so a simple choice

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    I used the same oil and my M burned through it like paper. I recently decided to "try out" Shell Rotella T6 5w30 off of good reviews from everyone and it is lasting A LOT longer. It helped a tiny bit with my lifter tick as well. I'm not completely going away from mobil 1 though probably switch back to it at the end of summer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezbmr View Post
    Was thinking of converting to Mobil 10w40 HM, my 3 burns oil, thought perhaps the 10w40 might burn a bit less. Any opinions on changing?
    High Mileage oils is basically a euphemism for oils that still contain ZDDP as an anti friction agent. In a nutshell; ZDDP will supposedly kill cats & O2 sensors before 150k miles and is why it is no longer used in a majority of oils.

    Regarding your oil consumption, I had a damn near come to Jesus moment the 1st time I tried Amsoil 20w50 in a VW of mine. I changed the oil every 6mo or so and in that time it used less than 1qt. Mobil1 10w30 (weight recommended on the oil cap) would burn & leak thru in no time. Ditto 15w50. Both grades of M1 would shear down to the consistency of rubbing alcohol. Despite the claims otherwise, I stay away from M1 products.

    Amsoil isn't cheap but it worked quite well in my application. Additionally, it has ZPPP as an additive and stopped most, if not all, leaks and excessive oil consumption. The engine (VR6) was significantly quieter as well.

    Going a little thicker on your oil may reduce MPGs a bit...but I'd rather have the piece of mind that I'll be OK if the schizophrenic weather around here decides to hit triple digits when the normal is 75.

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    Funny you mention it, the car when I bought it had 20w50 Castrol GTX, which I almost immediately had an oil change on. There were many indicators that said not to buy the car, but I bought it anyway. It has been more trouble than my 5
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
    Manual says to use 5w30. So, that's what I use.
    Your manual says to use 5W30 that meets LL01 eg BMW 5W30, it doesn't mean any old 5W30

    Quote Originally Posted by BnGRacing View Post
    High Mileage oils is basically a euphemism for oils that still contain ZDDP as an anti friction agent. In a nutshell; ZDDP will supposedly kill cats & O2 sensors before 150k miles and is why it is no longer used in a majority of oils.

    Regarding your oil consumption, I had a damn near come to Jesus moment the 1st time I tried Amsoil 20w50 in a VW of mine. I changed the oil every 6mo or so and in that time it used less than 1qt. Mobil1 10w30 (weight recommended on the oil cap) would burn & leak thru in no time. Ditto 15w50. Both grades of M1 would shear down to the consistency of rubbing alcohol. Despite the claims otherwise, I stay away from M1 products.

    Amsoil isn't cheap but it worked quite well in my application. Additionally, it has ZPPP as an additive and stopped most, if not all, leaks and excessive oil consumption. The engine (VR6) was significantly quieter as well.

    Going a little thicker on your oil may reduce MPGs a bit...but I'd rather have the piece of mind that I'll be OK if the schizophrenic weather around here decides to hit triple digits when the normal is 75.
    M1 10W30 is a very thin 30W oil compared to many other 30W's, so not surprising it used some. Thicker 30W's would probably have fared better
    Last edited by sprintman; 09-02-2012 at 05:48 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprintman View Post
    Your manual says to use 5W30 that meets LL01 eg BMW 5W30, it doesn't mean any old 5W30



    M1 10W30 is a very thin 30W oil compared to many other 30W's, so not surprising it used some. Thicker 30W's would probably have fared better
    HUH!?, the 1st # is supposedly the actual viscosity, 2nd# is retained film strength at operating temps, ideally we need a magic oil thats 0W at -20F(Alaskan cold start) but thickens to 20w at 250F, unfortunately this flies in the face of physics where most liquids thin as they warm up.You gotta laugh at the "high mileage oil", if you used it at low mileage, you wouldn't need it later on!, I'd rather buy a catalytic convertor than an engine.

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    I have never had any issue with using HM oil. I have yet to replace a convertor or o2 sensor due to the customer running HM oil.

    the LL01 is so you can supposedly go 15k+ miles on an oil change. you can use whatever oil you wwant so long you dont go the BMW recommended 15k+ oil changes.

    I have a customer right now that uses store brand 5/30 conv oil and a BMW filter and I change it every 3500 miles. the oil filter is very clean/not dark brown and the eng has no build up of oil under the valve cover. So if you change the oil sooner than BMW tells you to, you wont have issues. He could prob go 5k miles on it, but he insist to go only 3500 and than change it. BUT I dont care, cause i get $25.00 for every oil change he does and it take me 3-5 min to chang it.

    I have even used royal purple 20/50 in the M54 eng and not had any issues. but RP 20-50 is reportly like 10-40 oil. the cust changes his oil every 7500 miles to. If the cusotmer wants a specific oil and they bring it to me, i pour it in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02325 View Post
    I have never had any issue with using HM oil. I have yet to replace a convertor or o2 sensor due to the customer running HM oil.

    the LL01 is so you can supposedly go 15k+ miles on an oil change. you can use whatever oil you wwant so long you dont go the BMW recommended 15k+ oil changes.

    I have a customer right now that uses store brand 5/30 conv oil and a BMW filter and I change it every 3500 miles. the oil filter is very clean/not dark brown and the eng has no build up of oil under the valve cover. So if you change the oil sooner than BMW tells you to, you wont have issues. He could prob go 5k miles on it, but he insist to go only 3500 and than change it. BUT I dont care, cause i get $25.00 for every oil change he does and it take me 3-5 min to chang it.

    I have even used royal purple 20/50 in the M54 eng and not had any issues. but RP 20-50 is reportly like 10-40 oil. the cust changes his oil every 7500 miles to. If the cusotmer wants a specific oil and they bring it to me, i pour it in.
    LL01 sets the viscosity (nearly a 40W), HTHS min of 3.5, etc. 'Store bought' 5W30 is OK as long as it meets ACEA A3/B3 which most don't, in fact few XW30's meet BMW spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheFence
    Manual says to use 5w30. So, that's what I use.
    Bmw also revises the suggested oil occasionally.

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    BMW doesn't recommend 5W30 in most countries apart from the U.S

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprintman View Post
    BMW doesn't recommend 5W30 in most countries apart from the U.S
    What do they recommend in most other countries, 5w40?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arc2495 View Post
    What do they recommend in most other countries, 5w40?
    XW40 that meets LL01 or LL04 in Europe. Only the U.S has CAFE which drives down viscosity recommendations.

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    because in the US there is a notion that people want fuel efficiency. 5-40 is the best weight to run unless you're up north in which case castrol 0-30 is what you should run. That's the real synthetic stuff while the castrol 5-40 sold here is not. Try rotella 5-40 and even though it is not a true group4 or 5 oil, it's a cut above most other dino oils. If you want real synthetic go with a euro manufacturer like motul, lubro moly, total, pentosin, shell. Domestically redline and amsoil are good or if you can find valvoline (euro version) I'd try that. Go to bitog and do some reading. Mobil sold here is shears down to the next weight and may not be real synthetic. Read up on the API regulations. I've run valvoline, rotella, redline, and now I'm going to run motul because it was on sale. Real synthetic is not cheap though.
    Last edited by scooper; 09-03-2012 at 02:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scooper View Post
    because in the US there is a notion that people want fuel efficiency. 5-40 is the best weight to run unless you're up north in which case castrol 0-30 is what you should run. That's the real synthetic stuff while the castrol 5-40 sold here is not. Try rotella 5-40 and even though it is not a true group4 or 5 oil, it's a cut above most other dino oils. If you want real synthetic go with a euro manufacturer like motul, lubro moly, total, pentosin, shell. Domestically redline and amsoil are good or if you can find valvoline (euro version) I'd try that. Go to bitog and do some reading. Mobil sold here is shears down to the next weight and may not be real synthetic. Read up on the API regulations. I've run valvoline, rotella, redline, and now I'm going to run motul because it was on sale. Real synthetic is not cheap though.
    Save me from spending 2 hours on bitog, you're saying that Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, are lying on the bottle...all of them are not real synthetic oils? So dealers performing oil services on Ferraris, BMWs, Benzes, Porsches are not putting 'real' synthetic oil in?

    What do you mean by real synthetic, I thought for an oil to be labelled synthetic, the base oil has to be a full synthetic, according to API, no?

    BMWs that are dealer serviced are running 15000-19000 mile oil change intervals on Castrol Full Sythetic, how can this oil not be fully synthetic and hold up for 19000 miles without breakdown? Now, I am open to the idea that maybe something like amsoil is a better oil, but I would be very surprised if the oils I mentioned above are not 'really synthetic'...

    thanks in advance for explaining/shedding some light on this
    Last edited by arc2495; 09-03-2012 at 08:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arc2495 View Post
    Save me from spending 2 hours on bitog, you're saying that Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, are lying on the bottle...all of them are not real synthetic oils? So dealers performing oil services on Ferraris, BMWs, Benzes, Porsches are not putting 'real' synthetic oil in?

    What do you mean by real synthetic, I thought for an oil to be labelled synthetic, the base oil has to be a full synthetic, according to API, no?

    BMWs that are dealer serviced are running 15000-19000 mile oil change intervals on Castrol Full Sythetic, how can this oil not be fully synthetic and hold up for 19000 miles without breakdown? Now, I am open to the idea that maybe something like amsoil is a better oil, but I would be very surprised if the oils I mentioned above are not 'really synthetic'...

    thanks in advance for explaining/shedding some light on this
    Most synthetics today are Group III basestock synthetics whereas before they were Group IV and Group V basestock syns. Oil cognoscenti don't like the idea of Group III syns as true synthetics, even though performance can be as good. Forum members really don't need to know any of this, just buy LL01 oil and be done with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arc2495 View Post
    Save me from spending 2 hours on bitog, you're saying that Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, are lying on the bottle...all of them are not real synthetic oils? So dealers performing oil services on Ferraris, BMWs, Benzes, Porsches are not putting 'real' synthetic oil in?

    What do you mean by real synthetic, I thought for an oil to be labelled synthetic, the base oil has to be a full synthetic, according to API, no?

    BMWs that are dealer serviced are running 15000-19000 mile oil change intervals on Castrol Full Sythetic, how can this oil not be fully synthetic and hold up for 19000 miles without breakdown? Now, I am open to the idea that maybe something like amsoil is a better oil, but I would be very surprised if the oils I mentioned above are not 'really synthetic'...

    thanks in advance for explaining/shedding some light on this
    First of all NO oil should go 20k. There has been horror stories of ruined motors in low-mileage cars. Amsoil claims you can go a long time on their oil but you need regular oil filter changes every 3-5k. I change my filter at 5k and dump the oil at 10k. Costs me $50 a few times a year and is a no-brainer.

    Not TRUE synthetic means its not made from a Group 5 which is a better quality oil base. Mobil uses Group 4 and puts in additives to make it up to par. I am no professional and I could be wrong with the #s, but thats what youll learn at BITOG.

    If I remember correctly only M1 10w40 HM and 0W40 have the correct weight rating. Others include 0w30 "Made in Germany" Castrol (has to say that on the label). And of course Amsoil and RP are sufficient, but I've heard some people talk bad about RP.

    I would just buy Amsoil if I wanna spend $8+ a quart. Or M1 if I wanna be cheap (10 quarts for less than $50 at WM, I end up needing the 3 quarts, I will try Rotella next change; its funny when people tell me not to use a truck oil in my car, LOL, its just misinformation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJFX328 View Post
    First of all NO oil should go 20k. There has been horror stories of ruined motors in low-mileage cars. Amsoil claims you can go a long time on their oil but you need regular oil filter changes every 3-5k. I change my filter at 5k and dump the oil at 10k. Costs me $50 a few times a year and is a no-brainer.

    Not TRUE synthetic means its not made from a Group 5 which is a better quality oil base. Mobil uses Group 4 and puts in additives to make it up to par. I am no professional and I could be wrong with the #s, but thats what youll learn at BITOG.

    If I remember correctly only M1 10w40 HM and 0W40 have the correct weight rating. Others include 0w30 "Made in Germany" Castrol (has to say that on the label). And of course Amsoil and RP are sufficient, but I've heard some people talk bad about RP.

    I would just buy Amsoil if I wanna spend $8+ a quart. Or M1 if I wanna be cheap (10 quarts for less than $50 at WM, I end up needing the 3 quarts, I will try Rotella next change; its funny when people tell me not to use a truck oil in my car, LOL, its just misinformation.
    Acceptable oils are 0WXX and 5WXX so 10W40 isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexFinn View Post
    Oh yeah! Love me some good ole' oil thread!
    Well so many have a problem working out something as simple as putting the correct spec oil in their engine

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    OP - I've used both M1 0w40 and 10w40HM and like them both, with a slight preference for the HM because it's often cheaper, has higher zddp, and has a better hths film strength number (4 vs 3.7 iirc. The spec is 3.5). I change oil at 7500 regardless.

    The consensus is that Ow40 has the highest proportion of Group IV PAO stock of all the M1 products, although that is actually a trade secret and no one outside EXOM seems to know for sure. Group IV is super shear stable and impervious to heat, and has a naturally (see what I did there?) high viscosity index so it needs fewer additives to make the that fat 40 point grade swing. But it costs more and given a short-ish change interval and lesser HTHS and ZDDP, I usually buy the HM.

    The HM is presumably primarily a Group III base, so it would have a higher amount of viscosity improvers, but then it's only a 30 point swing. Theoretically it won't hold up quite as well to the most brutal conditions. It is almost 50% thicker at startup, but that's not to say it's too thick. The BMW spec for cold oil is written as a minimum thickness, not a maximum.

    Both oils should have an equal detergency and both have a slug of moly, which is a friction modifier that BMW uses in its branded oil, but that is not too common elsewhere (Redline uses a ton). When done right it lowers temperatures and is really good at startup.

    I have Blackstone analyses that show both oils stay in grade and perform well in my M54. So it's a pickem. If 0w40 is on sale and especially in the winter, I buy it; otherwise 10w40HM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxell0405 View Post
    OP - I've used both M1 0w40 and 10w40HM and like them both, with a slight preference for the HM because it's often cheaper, has higher zddp, and has a better hths film strength number (4 vs 3.7 iirc. The spec is 3.5). I change oil at 7500 regardless.

    The consensus is that Ow40 has the highest proportion of Group IV PAO stock of all the M1 products, although that is actually a trade secret and no one outside EXOM seems to know for sure. Group IV is super shear stable and impervious to heat, and has a naturally (see what I did there?) high viscosity index so it needs fewer additives to make the that fat 40 point grade swing. But it costs more and given a short-ish change interval and lesser HTHS and ZDDP, I usually buy the HM.

    The HM is presumably primarily a Group III base, so it would have a higher amount of viscosity improvers, but then it's only a 30 point swing. Theoretically it won't hold up quite as well to the most brutal conditions. It is almost 50% thicker at startup, but that's not to say it's too thick. The BMW spec for cold oil is written as a minimum thickness, not a maximum.

    Both oils should have an equal detergency and both have a slug of moly, which is a friction modifier that BMW uses in its branded oil, but that is not too common elsewhere (Redline uses a ton). When done right it lowers temperatures and is really good at startup.

    I have Blackstone analyses that show both oils stay in grade and perform well in my M54. So it's a pickem. If 0w40 is on sale and especially in the winter, I buy it; otherwise 10w40HM.
    Multiple UOA's I've read show M1 0W40 shears to a 30W over time and thickens back to a 40W if used long enough. Still it's better than using low spec 5W30 as so many here do.

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