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Thread: M3 Clutch and flywheel install on 1999 318ti M44- F1 Racing stage 2

  1. #1
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    M3 Clutch and flywheel install on 1999 318ti M44- F1 Racing stage 2

    Hey guys,

    I just kicked off my clutch replacement today on my 1999 318ti. I was going to post this in hatchback have but their doesn't seem to be a whole lot of traffic there. I have read before that you can put a 240 mm M3 clutch and flywheel in place of a stock m44 clutch and flywheel which is 215mm because the bell housing is the same size. Also the reduction in weight will be awesome.

    So after a lot of reviews, forums, research and shallow pockets I decided to go for the F1 Racing stage 2 chromoly Flywheel and clutch kit from gripforce. The kit comes with;
    14lb Chromoly flywheel
    Stage 2 sprung clutch
    Pressure plate
    Flywheel bolts
    Pilot bearing
    Alignment tool
    Throwout bearing

    Overall I was very happy with the purchase, the clutch and flywheel were of excellent quality and came very neatly packaged. The pressure plate was stamped Sachs, and was painted blue.

    The tool was not the correct tool for the E36, they sent BMW tool #28 which is for a 5 series, for this job you will need #83. The throwout bearing is junk, but the pilot bearing was of good quality, I researched the company and they were reputable, I had purchased the throwout bearing, pilot bearing and flywheel bolts prior to the kit being purchased because gripforce was not sure who made any of the bearings in the kit.

    In this build I will be installing the following parts:

    Chromoly Flywheel for M3
    Stage 2 Clutch for M3
    Pressure plate for M3
    M3 slave cylinder
    Nachi pilot bearing
    M44 Sachs throwout bearing
    M44 guide tube
    Turner Motorsport stainless steel clutch line
    Silicon brass pivot pin
    Pivot pin clip
    Flywheel bolts
    Pressure plate bolts
    New guibo flex disc
    6 Flex disc bolts and nuts
    Crankcase rear seal
    Crankcase housing seal
    And all of the shifter bushings.

    It seems like I bought more parts but I guess that's it. Oh and since I have to drop the exhaust I decided to cut off my stock muffler and weld on a universal magnaflow during this install.
    I'll post the part numbers when I have a chance to sit down and copy them.

    Okay, so today I dropped the exhaust and driveshaft and got most of the bolts off the tranny. I will get some pictures from underneath the car tomorrow when I continue.

    Heres the pics so far http://s1160.photobucket.com/albums/...bum_view_click
    "That Hood scoops gotta be worth at least 5 horsepower!"

    "Theres the right way, the wrong way and the way we are going to do it".

    -My dad.

  2. #2
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    Ok quick update and question, I got the transmission in, drive shaft still out. Clutch slave has not been bled. In nuetral should I be able to turn the crank by hand at this point? Or would the slave not being bled cause the pressure plate to compress the clutch disc?

    I used 28mm flywheel bolts
    M44 throwout tube
    M44 throwout bearing
    Would any of these parts be causing this problem with a 240mm clutch?

    Thanks in advance.

  3. #3
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    If it's in neutral the slave has no affect on things. You should be able to crank it by hand or even with the starter.

    Pulling the plugs will make it much easier to crank.

    If there is no driveshaft installed you can even have it in gear
    Last edited by flyfishvt; 08-22-2012 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the quick reply!

    I recently just finished rebuilding the top of the motor, (preventive maintenance), in which a valve job, valve seals, valve lapping and head milling were performed. It turned freely after this with no flywheel or sparkplugs attached. I installed the sparkplugs then the flywheel, clutch pressure plate, and tranny. Then I attempted to hand crank to ensure every thing was smooth, but when i cranked it didnt budge. Now that you have said it, i have not attempted to crank it with the sparkplugs uninstalled and the transmission in.

    Of course after a large build and I hit an obstacle I always wonder if it is something i did wrong, but in fact i may be looking for something to be wrong, when there isnt really a problem......Ill pull the plugs tonight and see if that frees it up, I may just have alot of compression. Thanks again for your reply.

  5. #5
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    I hate to say this, but if you cannot rotate the engine with a breaker bar on the end of the crank, then you may have installed the clutch disc incorrectly.
    I would advise that you double check before you attempt to start the engine as that would weld the hub of the clutch disc on to the throwout bearing guide tube. If it welds on, you will have a major hassle getting the trans off the engine.
    With the F1 flywheel, the disc has to be installed flipped around from normal.

    m

  6. #6
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    I did try it with a breaker bar and it did move no problem, but i didnt know if that was just because it was a breaker bar. I am talking about using a standard 1/2" driver(standard handle) as this worked while the tranny and spark plugs where out, though i guess it probably shouldnt move that easy.

    I installed the clutch disk with the fat portion side of the disk (this is a sprung hub) away from the flywheel facing the tranny/gearbox.

    Edit: Shouldnt move that easy with everything attached.
    Last edited by Jamcglennon; 08-22-2012 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #7
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    This is how i attached it, (this is from a different forum, not my actual car, but shows a sprung hub clutch installed)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8
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    It should be very difficult to crank with the plugs in. Take them out and it should move pretty easy. Not as easy as a front tire that's off the ground but still pretty easy. If it does this with the plugs out then chances are you're ok.

  9. #9
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    alright, ill check it when i get home. I hope i didnt get this darn disc in backwards. The transmission is a pita to get on there. At least i didnt drive it anywhere.

    Ok, so I took the sparkplugs out, it helped a bit. So I went ahead and called gripforce and talked to their tech, he told me that the disc indeed needs to be flipped around, just as mmark said.

    So for anyone buying an F1 Racing clutch +LWFW stage 2 and up(sprung hub) for the E36 **You must point the side of the clutch disc that protrudes outwards/fat side **towards/facing the Flywheel.

    This of course is not mentioned in the install directions, the tech said it should have been printed on the bag.

    I will tear it apart tomorrow and flip the disc, and update on Friday.

    Thanks again for all the help guys!
    Last edited by Jamcglennon; 08-22-2012 at 09:51 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "That Hood scoops gotta be worth at least 5 horsepower!"

    "Theres the right way, the wrong way and the way we are going to do it".

    -My dad.

  10. #10
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    Wait a minute, i just talked to gripforce tech and he told me that the flat side of the sprung hub should face the flywheel?

    i ve the same exact combo... having problems..

    FLAT SIDE:



    this is how mine was installed and tech said its wrong direction

    Any thoughts?

    this is the fat side
    Last edited by MERTE36M3E39540; 08-23-2012 at 04:16 AM.
    MAGNET

  11. #11
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    Yeah that's how I have it now. But I will be flipping it per the tech at gripforce. They should really put this on their instructions, I have seen another 5-8 threads regarding this problem, everyone that has it like a "normal" clutch setup has had issues, but they flip it and the problem disappears. Also i Believe the UUC m5 clutch fly package installs the clutch disc backwards from normal(fat side) facing the flywheel.
    "That Hood scoops gotta be worth at least 5 horsepower!"

    "Theres the right way, the wrong way and the way we are going to do it".

    -My dad.

  12. #12
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    The pic in post #7 is how you install the disc when the factory flywheel is used.
    With the F1 flywheel, it has to be installed in the opposite direction, ie, thick side facing flywheel.

    Post #11....Correct.

    m
    Last edited by mmark.; 08-23-2012 at 10:15 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmark. View Post
    The pic in post #7 is how you install the disc when the factory flywheel is used.
    With the F1 flywheel, it has to be installed in the opposite direction, ie, thick side facing flywheel.

    Post #11....Correct.

    m

    Oh so in that first picture fat part is not towards flywheel, we should be able to see the fat side on this picture?
    Another thing my mechanic took tranny apart to see synros and he said syncros fell apart when he opened the tranny..Does it means syncros were bad or tranny cant be taken apart to diagnose?

    Thank you , i just bought used tranny from bav recycling and hopefully once the sprung hub installed correctly my problem will be gone


    And in the first pict is it easy to say the part behing the hub is clutch disk, pressure plate or flywheel?

    This one might help

    Last edited by MERTE36M3E39540; 08-23-2012 at 10:43 AM.
    MAGNET

  14. #14
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    Ok, I threw this together to clear up any confusion.

    **Disclaimer: this diagram is my representation of how i was described the correct procedure of installing the f1 racing sprung hub clutch disc using the F1 racing flywheel by a Gripforce technician. This diagram is in no way associated with Gripforce, it was made by me on adobe illustrator. So I cant be held liable for incorrect installation.

    As any BMW "Modder" knows:

    "There is the wrong way, the right way
    and the way we are going to do it."
    Attached Files Attached Files

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamcglennon View Post
    Ok, I threw this together to clear up any confusion.

    **Disclaimer: this diagram is my representation of how i was described the correct procedure of installing the f1 racing sprung hub clutch disc using the F1 racing flywheel by a Gripforce technician. This diagram is in no way associated with Gripforce, it was made by me on adobe illustrator. So I cant be held liable for incorrect installation.

    As any BMW "Modder" knows:

    "There is the wrong way, the right way
    and the way we are going to do it."
    So it shows that fat side is touching the flywheel..
    MAGNET

  16. #16
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    correct.....

  17. #17
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    Update:


    Ok so I have put 75 miles on the F1 racing stage 2 clutch and chromoly flywheel for the m3, which is installed on my m44 engine. It rocks! It has an great grip and a night and day difference from my m44 setup. I am still practicing on first gear, the m3 slave is very different from the m44, but I like the race feel so much more. I will update as I go. Oh and no gear rattle......yet, but I have 2 layers of dynamat over the trans cubby, so mayb I won't hear it in the cabin.
    "That Hood scoops gotta be worth at least 5 horsepower!"

    "Theres the right way, the wrong way and the way we are going to do it".

    -My dad.

  18. #18
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    Sorry to threadjack but I have a question regarding this clutch setup. I just purchased a 328 that has a receipt from gripforce for this exact setup. F1 racing stage 2 street clutch kit & chromoly flywheel. There is also a receipt from the shop that installed it that says "Removed transmission and replaced clutch. Had to destroy transmission due to incorrect installation instructions causing clutch to weld itself to the input shaft." Ultimately they ended up installing a transmission from an M3.

    My question is, what are the symptoms of this backwards installation? Would the clutch plate be severely damaged from installing it this way? Would the clutch and flywheel still be serviceable afterwards? I ask because there is a slight shudder starting out in first sometimes. And on occasion the clutch slips when I'm starting out on a hill. Slips so bad I can hear it from inside the car, it sounds like tires spinning but isn't. It's only been installed for about a year and a half.
    Yoy.

  19. #19
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    If you install this clutch in the wrong orientation it will in fact weld itself together. Gripforce says they put a sticker on the side that should face the flywheel. I do not recall this sticker being on there, so I had to uninstall myclutch and reverse it. I uploaded a diagram of how I installed my clutch which is reverse of a standard clutch setup, per gripforce tech dept.

    Symptoms would be grinding noise, shutter, weird clutch engagement. But if you have been driving on it for a year+ with it I would assume it may not have been broken in correctly therefore it may be glazed over which would cause a low gear slip.
    "That Hood scoops gotta be worth at least 5 horsepower!"

    "Theres the right way, the wrong way and the way we are going to do it".

    -My dad.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamcglennon View Post
    If you install this clutch in the wrong orientation it will in fact weld itself together. Gripforce says they put a sticker on the side that should face the flywheel. I do not recall this sticker being on there, so I had to uninstall myclutch and reverse it. I uploaded a diagram of how I installed my clutch which is reverse of a standard clutch setup, per gripforce tech dept.

    Symptoms would be grinding noise, shutter, weird clutch engagement. But if you have been driving on it for a year+ with it I would assume it may not have been broken in correctly therefore it may be glazed over which would cause a low gear slip.
    There's definitely no grinding and for the most part it grips really well. I've only had the car a month or so but I've felt and heard it slip a few times already. So the disc is probably ruined, huh?

    Thanks for responding btw.
    Last edited by e36fiend; 11-05-2012 at 10:59 PM.
    Yoy.

  21. #21
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    No problem. Try pressing your DSC button to the left of the steering wheel(some models have it next to the shifter). The traction control system uses the clutch, its a good way to cheat out on replacing your slipping clutch. See if that makes any difference in your slip. But if its only slipping in first then i would assume its either on its way out or glazed. I dont know the normal life on these stage 2 racing clutches, mine didnt look terribly "thick" (i.e. hade very much grip pad on the clutch) when it was new, but it was obviously designed like that and i dont have a standard sachs m3 clutch to compare it to.
    "That Hood scoops gotta be worth at least 5 horsepower!"

    "Theres the right way, the wrong way and the way we are going to do it".

    -My dad.

  22. #22
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    for clutch rattal/chatter change transmission fluid to red line 1 quart 75w140ns and 1 quart red line mt-90 75w90 gl-4 the problem is not the throw out bearing its the factory trans fluid its to light weight for the light flywheel. it works every time

  23. #23
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    F1 as in ebay f1 racing clutches? Might as well start saving money for a real clutch now, you'll be doing it all over again in a year

  24. #24
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    The F1 clutches have been decent and given that he's running a high horsepower clutch on a 318t it will likely outlast the car.
    97 BMW M3 (s52b32) - VF-Supercharger kit ( Vortech V2-SQ supercharger, 32 pound injectors, VF tuning ), VDO/LeatherZ Gauge Kit (Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, and Boost), UUC Motorwerks RSC36 Exhaust, Stainless Steel 6-2 Exhaust Headers, Bilstein Sports, Rear Adjustable Camber bushings, Wheel Spacers 10mm in front 25mm in back, Uprated Clutch, UUC Shift Knob, Short Shifter and Clutch Stop, Cross Brace, Mason Engineering front strut bar, Contour Wheels, Euro Ellipsoid (Angel Eyes) HID Headlights, braided steel brake lines, aluminum thermostat housing, mishimoto aluminum radiator and silicone hoses and a partridge in a pear tree

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by R6Russian View Post
    F1 as in ebay f1 racing clutches? Might as well start saving money for a real clutch now, you'll be doing it all over again in a year
    I too was skeptical, but after alot of reading on other forums (BMW & other) I came to the conclusion that it was well worth the $500. Once i got the kit I was surprised in how well made the flywheel is, the feel is hard to get used to at first, but has been over 300 miles with no issues. The Gripforce customer service is in need of some help, if you have any questions just ask their techs, they know ALOT more than the valley girl that answers the phone.
    "That Hood scoops gotta be worth at least 5 horsepower!"

    "Theres the right way, the wrong way and the way we are going to do it".

    -My dad.

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