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Thread: Timing, VANOS, 1 tooth offset to crankshaft

  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    orlando, fl
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    750li, RR SC, ML350
    I will check the other two sensors next to the cam sensor, one step down, they are the ones that tell the cam sensor where the valves are aligning so it can advance or retard the cam. remove them and clean it up, they work under the same magnetic principal as the cam sensor, they might had gotten dirty? also the pins are easy to bend check that they are good. just for fun too I will swap those to the other side and re-activate the ram backup to see if the error moved. if it does not move, then check the cables to the sensors.

    if it does not help, i'll recommend doing a one day pass at https://www.bmwtis.com/ it is only 30 bucks a day and you will probably find more information there. I believe this is the same site where TBS can be found. see the post above yours...

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    San Jose
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    2007 750i
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdover View Post
    I will check the other two sensors next to the cam sensor, one step down, they are the ones that tell the cam sensor where the valves are aligning so it can advance or retard the cam. remove them and clean it up, they work under the same magnetic principal as the cam sensor, they might had gotten dirty? also the pins are easy to bend check that they are good. just for fun too I will swap those to the other side and re-activate the ram backup to see if the error moved. if it does not move, then check the cables to the sensors.

    if it does not help, i'll recommend doing a one day pass at https://www.bmwtis.com/ it is only 30 bucks a day and you will probably find more information there. I believe this is the same site where TBS can be found. see the post above yours...

    I was was told by another member that it is my timing. He said when you do the valve stem seals done, you always have to adjust the timing. I told that to the mechanic that did the job. He told me that he did not touch the timing chain. I told him that when you do the valve stem seals you always have to adjust timing this is the reason why my car is acting funny.

    Im dropping the car off tonight for him to recheck it. Since I did not have a check engine light when I brought the car in.

  3. #53
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    May 2011
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    750li, RR SC, ML350
    Wow, I was going under the assumption that they had done the timing, but if that was his anser, then he did not timed it. You need the special tool in order to time this coreectly. look at this pdf, that is the tool and the process to do it. http://www.lasertools.co.uk/items/pd...structions.pdf

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    San Jose
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    15
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    2007 750i
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdover View Post
    Wow, I was going under the assumption that they had done the timing, but if that was his anser, then he did not timed it. You need the special tool in order to time this coreectly. look at this pdf, that is the tool and the process to do it. http://www.lasertools.co.uk/items/pd...structions.pdf
    The mechanic still went and bought sensors, he did not listen to me. I told him yesterday even though he did not touch the timing chain if he still needs to do the timing after replacing the valve stem seals.

    hopefully he listens to me and I can have my car back this week. I also noticed some leaking of oil, think it might be the valve cover on the driver side or the timing case gasket. Before I took the car back to the mechanic I cleaned off the driver side with purple power and sprayed it. I already changed the alternator gasket myself about a month ago. I noticed a little bit of oil on top of the alternator but didn't get a really good look close-up.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Houston
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    2004 BMW 745i sport
    If it was performed with the all German auto tool than the camshaft timing should not be affected. The SIB for these faults tells you to replace all four cam sensors and the crankshaft sensor before resetting the DME RAM. I've found that to be only necessarily if you get faults for all 4 cams and the vehicle won't start(this situation usually happens on its own, not after the engine has been worked on). Typically if its a DME RAM issue you'll get the fault on the Bank 2 exhaust cam, but other faults are possible. The test plan on ISTA is service functions--->Maintenance--->CBS data correction,vehicle---->Engine oil level, disturbed. You perform the test plan and reset the oil level adaptions. I haven't used a GT1 in years but you may be able to perform the reset in this way as well.
    Last edited by meangreen94z; 03-12-2014 at 08:38 PM.

  6. #56
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    Nov 2013
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    2007 750i
    Quote Originally Posted by meangreen94z View Post
    If it was performed with the all German auto tool than the camshaft timing should not be affected. The SIB for these faults tells you to replace all four cam sensors and the crankshaft sensor before resetting the DME RAM. I've found that to be only necessarily if you get faults for all 4 cams and the vehicle won't start(this situation usually happens on its own, not after the engine has been worked on). Typically if its a DME RAM issue you'll get the fault on the Bank 2 exhaust cam, but other faults are possible. The test plan on ISTA is service functions--->Maintenance--->CBS data correction,vehicle---->Engine oil level, disturbed. You perform the test plan and reset the oil level adaptions. I haven't used a GT1 in years but you may be able to perform the reset in this way as well.

    The mechanic did do it with the all German auto tool. I guess he was right he did not have to touch the timing. It's all sorted out now it was the camshaft sensor in bank 2 all the way up against the firewall on the motor. The car is running perfect now!!!!

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    M3/M5/M Coupe

    Help!!!

    I have a 06 750i and for the life of me, this thing will not start!!!! It cranks and cranks! I have replaced battery (needed it) with an AGM one and registered it. Also replaced fuel filter and IVM module (coded as well), as well as crank position sensor. Spark plugs are brand new as well!

    I have done multiple tests so far with no outcome and everything looks good! Also need to mention that if I leave the car overnight without touching it, when I crank it, it will start for a 2-3 seconds and die again! Here what I have done so far to diagnose the problem with no outcome:

    -Fuel pressure good 3.5 bar (~50psi)
    -fuel flow good
    -replaced battery with AGM (registered to the car) (old one was weak)
    -ignition working
    -compression good (all at 185-190)
    -coded DME, CAS, IHKA, SBSR and a few other modules
    -aligned DME with EWS
    -replaced IVM module
    -checked ALL fuses
    -pulled VANOS actuators and hit them with compressed air, also switched them around to see any difference with no luck
    -Reset Valvtronic adjusters (takes less then 10 sec to adjust)
    -replaced crankshaft position sensor
    -changed oil (due for it) and reset the CBS and ran Engine oil disturbed service function
    -performed DME Ram reset (I had a bank 2 exhaust cam fault come up ONLY ONCE and never again (2b65 and nothing else))
    -reset adaptations
    -tested if catalytic converters are clogged

    I am sure I am missing something else I checked or tested, but you get the idea!

    Looked at live data while the car is cranking and I am seeing VANOS sensors at 120cr except for the exhaust ones on both banks which are jumping steadily from 120-39-42-117-119 (not exactly in that manner but seems to go as low as 39)

    At this point I cannot check the timing because I do not have the cam tools. I wanted to know, before i go and spend $250 on them, if there is another way to the timing?

    Any known locations for vacuum leaks that could cause a no start?

    Also if you have any other ideas on where and what to look for, ***please, by all means, let me know!!!

    HELP!!!!!!!!

  8. #58
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    orlando, fl
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    750li, RR SC, ML350
    Are you getting any software errors? Did you tried to reset the vehicle to factory settings? if so, then you might had wipped out the dme codding (it does not know the options it has), ask me how i know, lol. if you did this, then you might need to bring it to the dealer, they can get the original codding back on from bmw. if the car starts and then stops you should see an error in the DME, if no errors are registering, then i will say retrace the cables to see if any got pinch and broke.

    what work have you done in the car? did you open the car and messed the timming?

    regarding the timing, if you interfered with the timing, then no, the timing tool is the only way to re-timing it.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpdover View Post
    Are you getting any software errors? Did you tried to reset the vehicle to factory settings? if so, then you might had wipped out the dme codding (it does not know the options it has), ask me how i know, lol. if you did this, then you might need to bring it to the dealer, they can get the original codding back on from bmw. if the car starts and then stops you should see an error in the DME, if no errors are registering, then i will say retrace the cables to see if any got pinch and broke.

    what work have you done in the car? did you open the car and messed the timming?

    regarding the timing, if you interfered with the timing, then no, the timing tool is the only way to re-timing it.
    No work done on it and have not messed with timing at all...it was runing fine and just cut off. The coding on the DME is there and is correct as well as the VO...i coded it with no issues!

    After it cut off the first time, i started one more time (actually more like a sputter) for about a second and died. Now it just cranks and cranks.

    Yesterday i opened up the driver valve cover and noticed the exhaust cam timing notch (the slit where you install the cam tool) is a little off towards the outside of the engine. Seems like its off if i base it to the intake cam...Is that normal (again cant verify since no timing tools yet) or would i have to start looking for what caused the "tooth skip"? Also noticed that when i put a wrench on the cam to see if the sprockets are locked, the guide rail moves with tensioner bolt with minimal resistance. I understand its going to get tighter once there is oil pressure through it but could that be the cause of the cam missalignment (considering its missaligned)?

  10. #60
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    OK, so the timing is off on the driver side exhaust camshaft...it looks as of it jumped a tooth forward.

    I will set the timing perfectly, but my question is what would cause it to "jump"? Would a weak chain tenssioner do it or could it be the gears? I dont see any damage to the gears or the chain guides, but , when i try to lock the cams on to the sprockets (and the are locked without me locking them) i can see the adjuster moving back and forth pretty easily.

  11. #61
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    May 2011
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    orlando, fl
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    750li, RR SC, ML350
    if the adjuster moves then they are not locked. try turning the adjuster twice around, clock wise, it should get to a point that it will lock, there will be tension and you will not be able to move it anymore. if it won;t lock, then the sprocket is bad and need replacing. are both sides doing the same thing? the input and output cams? since you already remove one valve cover, i will say remove the other side and test the locking to see how they are good. the basic mechanisn on the variable sproke inside is a plate with a spring which is move by oil preasure and a notch that holds the sproke in the lock position, if the preasure is cut off at some point then the plate never gets to the notch and the DME does not know how to apply preasure. that is why i recomend to rotate it around until it locks. if you do it twice and it does not lock then they are bad.

    DO NOT try to time it without the sprokes ben locked or you will have to do it again. let me know who it goes. send me a personal email if you need help faster.

  12. #62
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    The sprockets are locked to the cams. When i try to spin the cam in corelation to the sprocket, they move together... The timing chain adjuster is the one that feels loose. When i put tension on the camshafts i can see the tensioner rail move fairly easily...

  13. #63
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    All is well and the car is running like a champ (apart from the alternator bracket leak, which will be done today)...

    Also for future refference, you CAN do the timing without the timing tools and be 100% dead on! All it takes is a little patience to figure some things out and its fairly straight forward. I had mine timed in a matter of 15 min after i had access to the cam bolts!!!


    Again thank you to all that helped out with my issue!!!!!!!

  14. #64
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    Shreveport la USA
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    2003 BMW 745 li
    How did u do the timing with out tool please help me I spent 900 at a BMW shop changing sensor cuz he says timing is good but everyone I talk to say my timing look out how to do it

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balal745 View Post
    How did u do the timing with out tool please help me I spent 900 at a BMW shop changing sensor cuz he says timing is good but everyone I talk to say my timing look out how to do it
    Pm me your email address...

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Manchester, England, U.K.
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    E46 330i, LS2 RX7
    You do not need DIS/GT1 for Ram Backup.

    It is in tool32 (and it works).

    Since yesterday, I have this problem on exhaust camshaft bank2. (vanos control).
    I can see the camshaft adaption is out ( it's -55).

    When I do ram backup, everything starts back at 71 (right in the middle).
    I can already confirm that "INPA -> reset all adaptions", does not reset camshaft adaptation, but ram backup in tool32 does.

    However, as soon as I restart my engine, it goes back to -55, and I get the exhaust control vanos error, and both valvetronic and vanos become disabled. I have an LPG system which is tied to manifold pressure (MAP), and I can see right away that the car is working off throttle now (manifold under varying vacuum) instead of valvetronic. So I'm about to re-time it / check the adjuster unit (vanos sprocket).

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is how much the exhaust timing was out by.

    I believe the vanos adjuster unit (cam sprocket) was not torqued to the camshaft properly. It was quite easy to loosen the bolt.

    I rebuilt the top half of this engine 4 months ago, and I mustn't have torqued this properly.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Now that I have re-done the timing (and done the bolt up tight!!), the camshaft adaptation looks correct! and valvetronic is working again!
    Last edited by carl0s; 06-07-2014 at 03:52 AM.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    2006 750Li
    Hello there,
    I just bought a 750Li 2006, finally trying this awesome beast
    the problem is the car idling is not stable, and even in cruising I can feel the hesitating in the engine, I checked it and gave the errors 2A90 ("Exhaust camshaft, tooth offset to
    crankshaft") and 2A91,
    am trying to change the vanos solenoid but no change, what I read today is to activate the Ram backup, am looking for that but cannot find a way to do so, if you please can tell me in detail how to do so since am new to BMW.

    thanks

  18. #68
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    orlando, fl
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    750li, RR SC, ML350
    you need the DIS software for it. once you start it, let i go thru the discovery mode, once complete, select "Control Unit Functions" (second to last button at bottom), once on the screen, scroll the left column until you find the "DME" functions, click on the selection, the middle column will display different option, the RAM Backup is there (middle of box). once you click the RAM Backup and run it, there won;t be an indication that it ran good or failed but it is ok, it ran

    - - - Updated - - -

    bigbadadiga, your mailbox is full, you need to cleanup to be able to receive private messages

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    Georgia, Tbilisi
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    BMW 750LI, 2006.
    Hello bpdover,
    I have same problem with my BMW 750 LI, 2006.
    Please let me know how did you fix it.
    I also have try everything, just like you and nothing helped me.
    Please let me know,
    Last edited by Mayorchuck; 09-04-2014 at 10:01 PM.

  20. #70
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    what kind work you did on the car? was it only the on the engine or the tranny too? what are the error codes you are getting? did you do the RAM Backup restored?

  21. #71
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    Jun 2007
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    528, E53 4.4, E92, F86
    I'm absolutely excited to find this thread! I just can't wait to get home and try out this RAM Backup fix for my issues! I did a bunch of work that involved VCG bank2 on my '05 X5 4.4 N62 and after buttoning it all back together car idles very rough, bucks and CEL flashes or stays on. Some debris fell inside the engine as I was removing the valve cover and I tried to remove as much as I could. The errors I'm getting from GTI are:

    - 2A84: CDKENWS2: intake/inlet vanos 2: Limit stop adaptations out of valid range,
    - 2A89: CDKAMWS2: outlet/exhaust vanos 2: camshaft adjustment has not reached retard/late position.

    So far I have tried cleaning the valvetronic solenoids, changed engine oil and filter, changed the CPS in bank2, and via GTI reset all adaptations, relearn valvetronic motor- all to no avail. Just can't wait to try out RAM reset.
    Last edited by E39Only; 02-06-2015 at 09:00 PM.

  22. #72
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    Jun 2007
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    528, E53 4.4, E92, F86
    328sick or Balal745, could you please let us know how to do this? Or does anyone else know how to do the timing without the tools?

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328sick View Post
    Originally Posted by Balal745 How did u do the timing with out tool please help me I spent 900 at a BMW shop changing sensor cuz he says timing is good but everyone I talk to say my timing look out how to do it

    Pm me your email address...
    Gawd, is this information some occult incantation that must be kept a secret ? Please kindly share out this information.

  24. #74
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    528, E53 4.4, E92, F86
    Indy (Zahntech Auto) cracked the issue- the CPS sensors were swapped!!! On the 2005 X5 N62 the sensors are different on the driver side. Took them just an hour to figure out. I had carefully labeled all the connections during removal and not sure how I messed up during assembly....may be orientation of the label. Although I took many pictures next time I'll make sure to take pictures of just everything and not rely only on labeling.

    Car runs strong, idles great and initial fixes I had done are all good. Now I think I'll reward myself with a Dynavin N6 upgrade.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #75
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    east st louis, il
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    bmw 745i, jaguar x-type,
    How do I rest the " ram backup"

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