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Thread: Sucker Car

  1. #1
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    Sucker Car

    Decided to take adantage of the open rule set. 2-cycle 1400 CFM.




    Damon in STL
    Damon in STL
    '88 e30 M3/42t - GTS3 #72 - Motorcraft Ign., Volvo Injectors, Thrush Turbo Muffler, Open Source ECU, Aerospace Connectors, Lowes Polycarbonate, Alumacore Front Splitter and Rear Diffuser, Honda Radiator(s), Racer's Tape (white), Tornado, Various Stickers, Farm Implement Paint (gloss white), Nationwide Series Windshield (Fontana version), GMC Boost Solenoid

  2. #2
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    LOL, but you need to put a radiator in there. Once the sucker was baned, the concept came back once more, the '78 Brabham fan car.

  3. #3
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    Been there, done that....it worked well.

    Google "P&G Sucker Car".
    Regards, Nate.
    www.DriveFasterNow.com

  4. #4
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    Damon,
    Great minds think alike, I also decided to take advantage of the open rule set.
    Here are some spy shots of me out "testing" the new set up. Fan is working great, I think I need to up the rear spring rate though.
    See you at the track










    Last edited by eye145; 04-08-2012 at 01:02 AM.

  5. #5
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    hahaha!
    Regards, Nate.
    www.DriveFasterNow.com

  6. #6
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    Jon,

    Props to you! Litterally!

    I must say...that is a creative and ingenious use of light weight aluminum! Although it is a little difficult to tell....but, I do like how you have the driver more centered for better weight distribution.

    Damon in STL
    Damon in STL
    '88 e30 M3/42t - GTS3 #72 - Motorcraft Ign., Volvo Injectors, Thrush Turbo Muffler, Open Source ECU, Aerospace Connectors, Lowes Polycarbonate, Alumacore Front Splitter and Rear Diffuser, Honda Radiator(s), Racer's Tape (white), Tornado, Various Stickers, Farm Implement Paint (gloss white), Nationwide Series Windshield (Fontana version), GMC Boost Solenoid

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damon in STL View Post
    Decided to take adantage of the open rule set. 2-cycle 1400 CFM.




    Damon in STL
    It's a bout flippin' time someone finally stepped up and did this!

    Don't forget to skirt the sides and back thoroughly. If it works well enough you can probably ditch the rear wing. You only need a consistent 1/2psi pressure drop under the car to make disgusting amounts of downforce.
    Last edited by JS154; 04-08-2012 at 05:58 PM.

    2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion, 2011 and 2013 SCCA National Championship Runoffs 3rd Place, STU, 2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year, 2012 SCCA Northeast Division STU Champion

  8. #8
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    Will you run a side exhaust?

    Do you forsee any exhaust heat buildup issues for the driver or any components?

  9. #9
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    The real sucker will be anyone who tries to pull a draft off you...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z3racer701 View Post
    The real sucker will be anyone who tries to pull a draft off you...
    Right.

    Was just about to ask: Do you filter out the schmutz that gets picked up off the track so that it's not ejected at high speed right into the guy on your bumper? Or, so that it doesn't break the fan vanes?

  11. #11
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    The end of GTS begins, see you guys in Spec E30
    Simon
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  12. #12
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    Don't worry, it will be *years* before Damon actually gets his car out on track...


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
    Right.

    Was just about to ask: Do you filter out the schmutz that gets picked up off the track so that it's not ejected at high speed right into the guy on your bumper? Or, so that it doesn't break the fan vanes?
    Certainly there's the schmutz aspect... but I was also thinking of getting an additional headwind, then there's the late brake and increadible speed through the corners aspect. Would make an awesome TT car, you could forget about using a wing and concentrate on makinging it really low drag.

    Kinda like, "He tried to follow me throught that corner and lost it... Sucker!!"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by snk328is View Post
    Don't worry, it will be *years* before Damon actually gets his car out on track...

    Nobu....you are probably correct... The bright side is the period of "years" is almost up! Currently shooting for Putnam in May. Unfortunately, I am missing my home track event this coming weekend....

    Okay....LOL....um....I was somewhat joking about the whole "sucker car" thing....

    This is kinda what the current concept is. This past weekend I started thinking a single radiator may provide enough heat dissipation. The "sucker" thought came from the idea of placing a fan (or fans) in the rear diffuser to suck air from under the car up and then through the radiator with another fan at the radiator.

    For you airplane guys....the FOD would be kept out of the radiator using a stainless fine mesh screen attached to the bottom side of the diffuser.



    Damon in STL
    Last edited by Damon in STL; 04-09-2012 at 06:12 PM.
    Damon in STL
    '88 e30 M3/42t - GTS3 #72 - Motorcraft Ign., Volvo Injectors, Thrush Turbo Muffler, Open Source ECU, Aerospace Connectors, Lowes Polycarbonate, Alumacore Front Splitter and Rear Diffuser, Honda Radiator(s), Racer's Tape (white), Tornado, Various Stickers, Farm Implement Paint (gloss white), Nationwide Series Windshield (Fontana version), GMC Boost Solenoid

  15. #15
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    Damon, if you're careful and the inlet is not in the "wash" of the rear tires you wont have as big of a FOD problem.

    What you should do is get a huge ducted fan inside the car and use some of the exhaust to cool your radiators. You'll go deaf in about 10 minutes of driving but it will be worth it.
    2000 M Coupe
    [Always in progress !!!]

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by snk328is View Post
    Don't worry, it will be *years* before JAFFSTER actually gets his car out on track...

    Fixed for you.

    ;-)

    2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion, 2011 and 2013 SCCA National Championship Runoffs 3rd Place, STU, 2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year, 2012 SCCA Northeast Division STU Champion

  17. #17
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    I need to come by and inspect your work...for your own safety.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damon in STL View Post
    Currently shooting for Putnam in May.
    Awesome! I'm not 100% sure if I'll be at Putnam, but I'm looking forward to seeing you at more Midwest events!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by snk328is View Post
    Awesome! I'm not 100% sure if I'll be at Putnam, but I'm looking forward to seeing you at more Midwest events!
    I'm going to start stealing parts off of your car...
    -Luke

    EFFEKTIV Motorsport
    #189 GTS3 - E-Fab / Motorsport Hardware / NOS Energy Drink
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  20. #20
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    cool
    Google "P&G Sucker Car"[IMG]http://www.**********.info/7.jpg[/IMG]
    Last edited by Crowe849; 04-10-2012 at 10:58 AM.

  21. #21
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    So you're feeding your radiator via your underbody flow/diffuser? Not really sure that's a good idea since you will be buildng up quite the static pressure gradient there, probably stalling flow over large parts of your underbody, even with a small fan.
    -Jacob

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    1992 Nissan 240SX S13 Hatch GT2871R - Track Car

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Def View Post
    So you're feeding your radiator via your underbody flow/diffuser? Not really sure that's a good idea since you will be buildng up quite the static pressure gradient there, probably stalling flow over large parts of your underbody, even with a small fan.
    Hmm....stalled flow = sudden loss of downforce!

    I was trying to determine how much air the car travels through at different speeds to the determine CFM flow under the car and I am having a hard time getting my mind around it. I created a basic spreadsheet thinking it would be be a basic volume over time calc.....but, my flow rates seem way off (high).

    My initial concept was to have scoops just behind the doors for air inlets. I then moved to the multiple NACA duct located in the side windows "NASCAR style" idea. Vented rear wheel wells have been considered....

    May is next month.....

    Damon in STL
    Last edited by Damon in STL; 04-10-2012 at 06:08 PM.
    Damon in STL
    '88 e30 M3/42t - GTS3 #72 - Motorcraft Ign., Volvo Injectors, Thrush Turbo Muffler, Open Source ECU, Aerospace Connectors, Lowes Polycarbonate, Alumacore Front Splitter and Rear Diffuser, Honda Radiator(s), Racer's Tape (white), Tornado, Various Stickers, Farm Implement Paint (gloss white), Nationwide Series Windshield (Fontana version), GMC Boost Solenoid

  23. #23
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    Yes, that's how dynamic pressure gets converted to static pressure (i.e. fast moving air slows down to raise static pressure and go through a heat exchanger). You'll end up messing up your underbody stuff way more than helping it.

    NACA ducts don't do well with high pressure gradients in general, but they can be made to work.

    Figure you need at least 60-70% of your heat exchanger area in duct area leading to it, which is a pretty huge NACA duct.


    If you are going to do the setup you have now, run way more fan than you've got there. A dual set of Nissan Altima fans do pretty well on high and are approximately that shape and size it appears. Ford Taurus fans are pretty beast, but not very efficient given they put a TON of power into one ~16" fan. It pulls over 50 A at full bore. The Altima fans will outflow it with less current draw due to more fan surface area.
    -Jacob

    2007 Toyota 4Runner Sport - DefSport Mobile Command Center

    1992 Nissan 240SX S13 Hatch GT2871R - Track Car

  24. #24
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    There is also problem of air being much hotter near the track surface. I suspect you could have 20 - 30 C degree difference between air on the surface and few feet up, I guess it depends on clouds, wind etc.

    BMW had this problem with 1998 LM car. They were forced to use higher ground clearance to get cooler air on to under car air intakes and the desing was dropped for next years VLM car That was full Le Mans proto so this problem might not be as serious on E30

  25. #25
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    The E30 ground clearance is too much to have the underbody flow to create usable downforce.Until someone builds relatively flat floor that is a few inches from the ground,but I cant think of what rate springs will be needed in that case.
    I have an intention to install my radiator in the spare tire well,tilt 45 degree front.Sucking air from underneath and exhausting between the taillights.It should help with the drag at least.

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