Urgent! Need help! White smoke billowing from exhaust on startup!

[bsconz]

2004 325Ci

Billowing white smoke out the exhaust pipes upon startup.

Just out of curiousity, could power steering fluid into the power steering reservoir (even though it calls for ATF) cause this issue?

On 8/29/10 (7 months ago), the serpentine belt snapped while driving and the engine coolant temperature gauge briefly went into the red. Belt replaced, cooling system drained and refilled. Never found the reason the belt snapped other than it just being the original and worn out (car had approximately 80,000 miles on it).

The CCV on this car is covered in a film of oil and the engine mounting bracket directly underneath it is also covered in a film of oil. The CCV vent lines & connectors from the valve cover to under the intake manifold were built up with quite a bit of sludge. With the engine running at low idle the CCV was pulling a vacuum.

The "smoke" that billows out the exhaust and is very thick and appears to be white colored. I would lean towards it being steam. It reminds me of a fog machine. I can not tell if it has a blue tint or if it smells sweet either. It doesn't smell like buring oil though. Reminds me of a humidifier. My girlfriend noticed it yesterday after driving the car around town doing errands. It was parked for about 90 minutes before I got home. When I started it the smoke billowed out immediately and continued for about 15 seconds. The coolant level was corrected. I drained the oil which did look a little more "milk chocolate" in color than I think it should be. No other obvious signs of coolant in the oil though. I put new oil in and restarted the car and there was no smoke.

[DakotaM]

It is most likely related but if I'm not mistaken power steering fluid and transmission fluid are quite similar so it shouldn't do much harm. I say flush everything.

[WoLF]

Crank case ventilator has gone bad?

The "ATF reservoir" you speak of is the power steering reservoir. ATF should go in there. It's no biggy if she put PS fluid in there, but I'd flush it out with ATF soon if I were you.

[Machschne11]

FYI ATF doesn't come out the exhaust pipes. The engine does not burn power steering fluid. It burns gasoline AND PCV gasses for emissions.

Now if she put the PSF in the oil - even that might not be so bad, since some mechanics use it to loosen up sludge. With the car hot, they drain the oil, and put in cheap oil with one qt. AFT or PSF, run it a 50 mph for about 3 miles, and then drain again, putting in the good stuff. The PSF thins out sludge and the second oil change drains out the PSF.

BUT

The most common white billowing smoke out the exhaust is a blown CCV that's letting oil into the cylinders - and you're burning the oil - not just the emissions gasses. Caution. You CAN hydrolock your engine if this is the case and the CCV sucks in too much oil into the cylinders. Then it won't burn fast enough, and you can't compress liquid oil, so - you bend all your valves and poof. This is the BMW blown engine syndrome.

A Google search on "BMW white billowing smoke" should get you some nasty horror stories. So... If you're not an expert DIY'er, have the car towed to your mechanic (as in Independent BMW mechanic).

[savannah996]

depends on what the smoke is, oil, steam? regardless better get it to a shop!

[bsconz]

ok, i will take a look at the CCV but will i be able to tell if it's bad? i have definitely heard/read the horror stories about the BMW hydrolock problem.

i just siphoned the oil out of the power steering reservoir, refilled it with atf and siphoned it out again and filled it again with atf.

i also drained the oil and didn't noticed any coolant in it.

i coolant level seems to be spot on as well.

[lovelikewinter]

I believe there are some videos on youtube of a sound it makes when the ccv goes bad.
The parts are really not that expensive, I think I saw a kit for a little over 100 the other day. There was also a thread I came across a while ago, don't have the link, you could do a search for it. Basically you can check for a vacuum by placing a tissue over the oil filler hole on the valve cover.. if it seems to be sucking the tissue in, then there may be a problem.

[ACE Wright]

Is it possible it is antifreeze burning in the exhaust via head gasket leak?

[bsconz]

F**K changing the CCV myself...it is buried under the intake and whatnot.



i pulled off the vent line that attaches right at the valve cover and yes the vent line was sucking....i put a shop rag on and it held it...there was also some sludge built up in the connection fittings. i looked at the CCV with a flashlight and saw that it had oil residue all over it and there looked to be a film of oil on the parts directly underneath the CCV too.

@ ACE Wright: yeah it could definitely be coolant via a head gasket leak or worse yet a cracked block but there really hasn't been any recent events with the vehicle that would cause the head gasket to go out or the block to crack. a while back, however, the serpentine belt snapped and the engine briefly overheated. i immediately shut the engine off and installed a new belt. i posted about it but it was about 7 months ago: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1517893

[Gigatron]

As a general rule of thumb; water/coolant burns white, oil burns blue and gas burns ashy grey/black.

ATF fluid in the PS resevoir won't cause smoke. PS fluid in the ATF resevoir won't cause smoke. Either in the oil wouldn't cause smoke - it might cause other issues, but not smoke.

A blown CCV is an iffy possibilty. It recirculates crank case gasses, so if the valve gets gunked, it would be oil that gets thrown back into the engine, which would burn blue.

My gut feeling says a blown head gasket. Not uncommon and unfortunately, doesn't need an "event" for it to occur. As with every car ever made - $h!t happens.

I had a 78 Trans Am; one day, the oil pick-up decided to fail while driving on the highway. Within 2 minutes, I had a seized engine. Wasn't driving hard, just cruising home after work. Cars are going to do what they want to do.

-Fred

[ACE Wright]

As a general rule of thumb; water/coolant burns white, oil burns blue and gas burns ashy grey/black.



My gut feeling says a blown head gasket. Not uncommon and unfortunately, doesn't need an "event" for it to occur. As with every car ever made - $h!t happens.


-Fred

That is what I thought - when I had a head gasket go it was like white smoke from a rock concert. Of course that was a Toyota truck - but still - white = water and antifreeze to me.

[pureco99]

If a head gasket is blown, then the oil and the antifreeze would mix. from personal experience, if you take the oil dipstick out and look at it, it would be a creamy white mixed with brown plus you can smell the antifreeze in the oil. In addition, overheating of the engine would occur. You definitely would need to stop driving it before the engine head gets cracked. I don't know if this is the case in your car or not. Two things to look at would be the CCV and this.

[bsconz]

Either way guys, this repair is beyond my capability. I am calling around my area today for an indy shop. I'll have them do the final diagnosis but also check the CCV no matter what.

I am fearing that it is a blown head gasket but keeping my fingers crossed that the block is intact.

When I say it was billowing white smoke, it looked exactly like a fog machine and didn't smell like oil burning either.

This blows...

[Machschne11]

As a general rule of thumb; water/coolant burns white, oil burns blue and gas burns ashy grey/black.

... still - white = water and antifreeze to me.

While I quite understand your positions and can readily agree in general ... if you read all the BMW forums until your guts puke out ... white is typically oil from a blown CCV ... at least on the M54. Of all the cars I've worked on, I can almost guarantee BMW is the exception to all the rules. When my local mechanic friends found out I got two E46s, the unanimous response was, don't expect any help from me.

But OP says it doesn't smell like burning oil, and the E46 will blow a head gasket from even short periods of overheating (which was just admitted) so... I have no problem with that guess.

If a head gasket is blown, then the oil and the antifreeze would mix...

Uh... only if that part of the gasket which keeps oil and antifreeze apart fails. You can quite easily rupture a section of the gasket that would leak antifreeze into the cylinder without affecting the oil seals at all.

And yes OP the CCV is about an 8 on the DIY scale of 10 (10 being a transmission rebuild). And just like with doctors, get a second opinion. Don't let a shop sell you on a head gasket $$$ and then find out your still burning oil the CCV is sucking up the dipstick tube. BTW the "goose honking" is present only on some CCV failures - not all of them.

http://www.bimmershops.com/

[99BlackE46]

Guessing blown head gasket....Did you ever look at the oil? Did it look like milk chocolate colored? aka have water in it. Radiator coolant brownish?

[Hornung418]

Just as a friendly reminder to all who read this thread: if you make short trips where the engine oil doesn't get up to temp it's not the end of the world. You should pick a day out of the week and go for a spirited drive and really run her at WOT for a few miles and that will blow any sludge, you've built up over the week, right out of the CVV tubes.

OP sorry to hear your bad news. If there is no coolant in your oil I think you are safe. Just make sure you have the CVV tested and check all associated gaskets. Good Luck.

[Machschne11]

Also http://www.bimrs.org/

BTW. PLEEASE let us know the outcome of this (gasket v. CCV) That'll help us help others. Pay it forward.

[ACE Wright]

Just as a friendly reminder to all who read this thread: if you make short trips where the engine oil doesn't get up to temp it's not the end of the world. You should pick a day out of the week and go for a spirited drive and really run her at WOT for a few miles and that will blow any sludge, you've built up over the week, right out of the CVV tubes.

OP sorry to hear your bad news. If there is no coolant in your oil I think you are safe. Just make sure you have the CVV tested and check all associated gaskets. Good Luck.

Sweet!

I live one mile from my business. You just gave me a great excuse for the cops. Thanks bud.

[bsconz]

Also http://www.bimrs.org/

BTW. PLEEASE let us know the outcome of this (gasket v. CCV) That'll help us help others. Pay it forward.

Definitely! The car is on a flatbed this morning going to European Auto Tech here in Tucson, AZ. Once they complete the diagnosis I will get back on here and give you guys the scoop. I really appreciate everyone's quick response and vast knowledge...this is hands-down the best BMW forum and even just a good forum all together (regardless of the topic).

[bsconz]

got the car back and it was the CCV...the shop did a magnehlic test of crankcase pressure. with the engine warm it read 15 millibars. they found a crank vent hose cracked in half and others in bad shape.

11 61 7 501 566 crankcase vent valve
11 61 1 432 559 breather hose
11 15 7 532 649 breather hose
11 61 7 504 536 breather hose
11 61 7 504 535 oil separation hose

leak down test showed all cylinders had very low percentage of leakage except cylinder #3 which had leaks past the exhaust valves. no blown head gasket.

they changed the spark plugs, cleaned the carbon buildup in cylinder #3, and did a fuel injection cleaning. all adaption codes cleared and i had some other work done to the vehicle too that was unrelated to the original smoke issue.

[Machschne11]

Yep. Thanks for the feedback.