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Thread: E36 4L30E Rebuild

  1. #1
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    E36 4L30E Rebuild

    I just rebuilt the 4L30E in my 97 318i. I rebuilt because there were problems with the 2nd to 3rd shift being soft and then finally presenting a false neutral from worn out plates. Dropped it, took it apart, sure enough the plates were toast.

    I replaced all the other clutch pack plates too while I was in there. I also re-did drum seals, housing seals, valve body seals, the works.

    I replaced the TCC solenoid and the Torque Converter too.

    I replaced thrust washers with ones of a similar size.

    Today I remounted the transmission, topped all the fluids, cranked her up and no reverse. Not too upset by this, thinking it was just a fluid problem. I dropped her to the ground and took off to the gas station.

    The 2nd to 3rd shift was still soft and my car was stalling.
    My car also overheated.

    Was the overheating related to the transmission? The fluid levels in the engine radiator were fine, the fluid levels in the transmission were topped off.

    What did I miss? I had strong reverse before the rebuild.

    I did notice while in reverse and off the ground the tires will ever so SLIGHTLY rotate in the incorrect direction, being forward. Is this a sign?

    I also disconnected the speed sensor on the transmission after doing some research because that would bypass an ground short on the Force motor that could have been preventing reverse from engaging... Still nothing though.

    Sorry to type so much, just trying to be accurate

    Any help you could give would be great. I am probably going to just get ready to pull it out again and rip it back apart to inspect that I did everything to spec, but if anyone has any ideas before I do that... I would love to try them!!


    Thanks so much,
    Paul

  2. #2
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    Paul:
    I admire the fact you took this one. I have no experience with an auto transmission rebuild so I am of no help here.
    I cannot see how your transmission would have any affect on your engine cooling...

  3. #3
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    Well you can definitely try re-bleeding your cooling system, before you start tearing stuff apart to prevent the overheating...

    COuldn't tell you much else about the Auto Transmission tho

  4. #4
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    maybe you have one of those weird radiators that include the tranny cooler in them, and if the oil on the tranny is overheating maybe it is affecting the cooling system?.... just a thought, I've seen one of those go bad and it mixed ATF with coolant and goodbye tranny
    2001 525i, Titanium Silver, 48K miles

  5. #5
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    Just a shot in the dark, did you prime the torque convertor before installing?

    Valve bodies are tricky, one ball or spring out of place and whammo.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for all the help guys!

    I believe the problem was I got hasty

    I accidentally installed .63 lined clutches for 3rd clutch instead of 1.00mm.

    This fixed the forward gear issues.

    The reverse is still not working though after pulling out the transmission and tearing it apart ANOTHER 2 times I have come to the conclusion that all the parts are in place.

    The overheating problem was coming from bad O-Rings on the cooling lines. I guess the transmission can make the temp gauge shoot up. I noticed that if I kept the motor at 5k rpm it would cool down... LOL. That is what tipped me off that it wasn't the engine, what was happening is that the transmission built up enough pressure to force the fluid past the bad o-rings which helped it to cool.

    Fortunately I caught these problems early on.

    Though the reverse still isn't working, I have narrowed it down to the adjustment of the rear servo for the low/reverse band.. which can be reached without dropping the transmission again.. THANK GOD.

    I think the problem is that it is too loose and is not gripping the drum to engage reverse.

    Unfortunately I took the pan off before I checked for manual braking in first which would have confirmed this problem. So I am just going to make the adjustment and hope that reverse is there.

    I will find out if this is the issue today, and if so.. I WIN.



    I will let you guys know! Thanks for the responses.

    I have never done this before, lol.

    correcting what I said up there, sorry.. I type a lot.
    Last edited by xEmber; 11-02-2010 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #7
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    were there any issues with the pump? did you replace any pump seals with the rebuild?

    Are you going to make a DIY? did you take pictures along the way

  8. #8
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    Wish i could help also but I am not really going to dig into this trans until I know for sure I am going to try to put the car back together. Only thing I could think of is the diode is reversed, but, thats just pulling at straws. I have not really looked at what makes it work.

    I did my Grand Cherokee's 42RE and put the diode in backwards. It went into first but then slammed to a stop in second, like somene put on the brakes. I was too lazy to pull it back out and redo it, so I let the shop fix it. Only lasted 20k miles from them!

    I do have a few questions for "you" if you dont mind. What kind of special tools did you need or have to make? I am about to do mine also. I dont think I am going to crack the valve body though. I want to try to get as much out as I can without doing that, is that possible? I might come to a halt when I get to the servo band. Can that still be lifted out as is or does the servo piston need to be pulled?

    Yes, let us know how it goes, would like to hear what to watch out for from someone that has done this.

  9. #9
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    After tightening the servo for the low/reverse band to the manufacturer specs I am still not getting reverse.

    I did notice though that when I put it in drive (on the stands) and get up to about 40, then slow it down, put it in neutral and hit the gas again, that I can get the car up to about 30 mph in neutral... bizarre... It will do the same thing for reverse. After a few seconds it will drop back to zero as though it is losing pressure. Now of course, in reverse AND in neutral the tires are not spinning the right direction for reverse.

    Makes me wonder if it is a valve body issue though, but it is bizarre that drive/manual drive selections would work fine.

    I will investigate this more on Thursday.
    I will be checking back for responses though before I start.

    Is there maybe a more specific forum I could post this in?


    Silver,

    All the special tools I used I built myself. The greatest struggles you are going to encounter other than dropping/putting in the transmission will by far be the snap rings (unless your reverse fails to work also, LOL).

    Getting the snap rings off and on is a real PITA. I made some tools out of pieces of wood that when combined with my bench vice allowed me to do some of it easily. Though when putting the Overrun clutch back together with the sprag assembly I did destroy one sprag, and had to wait for it to ship back. Lesson learned there, finesse.

    I also made a small stool out of wood and had a really heavy guy sit on it to compress the reverse piston back in place w/the snap ring.

    Always compress the springs in the pistons before you try to pull the snap ring! Otherwise springs will go everywhere.

    Other than that, just be sure to put it back EXACTLY how you found it.
    Some people recommend getting the manual, I did not because I thought that the best experience I could get on how to rebuild a transmission was to disassemble one. That was true... till my reverse didn't work.

    Now I am wondering if the manual would help out with this?

    Anyway, if you are a somewhat decent mechanic with good tools and plenty of patience, this rebuild is not out of the question.

    I would use Whatever It Takes Transmissions for all of your parts though.
    You should be able to google them, their detailed parts diagram is comprised of actual pictures, it will give you a good idea of what to expect during your tear down/rebuild and it shows all the parts in order of their assembly making it a great guide for a rebuild!
    Last edited by xEmber; 11-02-2010 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  10. #10
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    It sounds like you may have the solenoid wiring crossed? Did you open the valve body?
    For the reverse problem I would check the reverse piston. The last 4L30e I rebuilt had a cracked reverse piston, which I had never seen before. Also make sure you have the correct inner and outter seals on the piston. Normally the seals go bad causing the transmission to fry the clutch pack losing reverse. If you put it back together with worn steels you can also cause problems.
    Also the low band is controled by fluid pressure.

    Here are some pics













    Last edited by E36 For Life; 11-02-2010 at 08:25 PM.

  11. #11
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    I am almost 99% sure it is the valve body. All the drums and clutches can only go one way, basic hard parts. On lot of trannys, i belive (correct me if i am wrong) first and reverse share the same clutch, its how the planetary set is held is how you get reverse, aka the band? That only leaves the valve body now, unless you missed a seal on one of the shafts?

    Not busting your balls or such, but, as much of a pain in the arse taking that transmission out is, I would have cheated and used the manual. I applaud your gallant efforts tho going manual-less. Just get one and follow the bouncing check balls and make sure all o-rings/seals are in place. Are you getting any codes? I looked in my book and didnt see any "if you have no reverse look for xxx". I do have

    rev=

    Overrun clutch = on
    rev clutch = on (duh)
    over run roller = hold
    low sprag = hold
    1-2/3-4 = sol off
    2-3 sol = on
    Last edited by silverm3bmw; 11-02-2010 at 08:29 PM.

  12. #12
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    Rotf

    OMG

    I am teaching at my college right now, and I just checked your messages and start laughing.. HARD.

    I see clearly in your pictures that.......

    my wires are backwards..

    OH THANK GOD

    I am going to flip this around and let you know what happens!

    LOL@looking at your pictures is like going through a family photo album at this point.

    Thank you SO SO SO much for the post. You are my hero.

    I feel like a retard.



    I documented it wrong on the tear down...WOW just.. WOW... lol

    In the future I will always get the manual.. now that I proved I can do it without it

    Yeah.. I am one of those guys.. LOL

    Thanks so much though guys, I will let you know what happens for sure!

    Oh, and all seals on the reverse piston, and other pistons were replaced, including the one on the Overrun Clutch which saw me order a new sprag after I boned it up.

    I flipped the two wires around on what I think is called the Force Motor, still nothing.

    I am running out of ideas.

    I flipped the two wires around on what I think is called the Force Motor, still nothing.

    I am running out of ideas.
    Last edited by xEmber; 11-03-2010 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  13. #13
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    Sorry to hear your still fighting it. I assume your not getting any transmission codes?

    I hate to say it, but I would break down and get the book. If you want to learn from this, take it apart documenting each bolt, nut bushing etc. Put it back together with the books help and see what/which one stupid piece was wrong. Crazy thats all it takes but thats all it probably is, just one dumb piece.

  14. #14
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    What book has the tranny tear down?

  15. #15
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    My brain has pages and pages of useless information. $14,300 on Jeopardy tonite.

    But one of the books is ATSG.

    Did you take apart the valve body?
    Last edited by E36 For Life; 11-03-2010 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  16. #16
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    I did take apart some of the valve body, meaning I pulled it out, replaced all the gaskets, petroleum jellied it all back together, checked that the valve slides operated freely, which they did, and removed the slide valve for the gear selector, and replaced it. I also replaced a solenoid in the adapter valve body, the smallest one. I have since put the old one back in while trouble shooting. I unmounted and remounted that valve body as well.

    I can't think of anything that I did wrong, I think that I put it all back together the right way, but obviously not.

    The overrun clutch is for OD right? I was just thinking to myself that I had a difficult time getting that back together, and listed above silver says that it is required for reverse.

    I was wondering if that was the problem? I believed I put the part back together fine after I order replacement parts for what I broke on the first attempt. That and my OD is working fine.

    I am just really confused at this point. Maybe I didn't tighten the band right? I thought that I did it to spec.

    I tightened it to 40 in lbs and then backed it off 5 full turns. Does anyone know if that is correct?

    I am going to do some research online and find out. That is where I pulled that information from originally.

    The valve circuits for reverse have to be housed in the adapter body right? Since the reverse piston resides on the back side of the adapter case. That means that the two solenoids located in the adapter case should cause TCC Lock up and open the reverse circuit in the valve body, as dictated by the gear selector?

    I am just so lost right now, I am going to check out the band thing and get back to you guys soon.

    Thanks for all the help so far!

    I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO KEEP THIS FROM AUTOMERGING, SO..

    BELOW HERE IS A NEW POST,

    I think that one of the biggest factors here in diagnosing may be the fact that neutral and reverse can emulate drive when the wheels are off the ground.

    They only do it for like 5 seconds, AND I have to go to drive first.

    It is as though going to drive pressurizes the valve body in a way that allows neutral and reverse to emulate having the vehicle in drive.

    I almost got up to 60 mph going forward in reverse before the transmission "let go" I guess from a lack of pressure.

    I am so lost at this point. If reverse is in the adapter valve body, and neutral should have no valve body channel, then how is it that this is happening?

    I have tried this on the ground, and the car won't do this, I guess because it doesn't have enough torque, but like I said, on the jack stands it does. It did not do this before the rebuild.

    And still, not a hint of reverse.

    I am hesitant to tighten up the band now because I think it is to spec after doing some research online, plus.. I don't think a lose band would let the car go forward like that (while on the jack stands) in neutral and reverse, right?

    Looking forward to hearing any ideas you guys have. I have no plans on buying another automatic transmission, If I am going to shell out cash for a new tranny it will be for a stick shift. And I won't be able to afford that for a little bit.

    Though, it would be nice to just fix this so I don't put myself ridiculously under here.

    Thanks for all the help guys
    Last edited by xEmber; 11-04-2010 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  17. #17
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    Your planetary gear set can go only one way with the gears lined up at a specific position.
    Also did you soak your clutch disc in atf before installing?




    This might be an option?
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1455673
    Last edited by E36 For Life; 11-04-2010 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  18. #18
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    Yep

    Soaked them over night. I keep hearing from people that 1st and reverse use the same "gears" so guess that means that I have all the hard parts and clutch plates loaded correctly since first works, and works well.

    I have also taken them out since the initial install and they still looked great, they were soaked with fluid.

    The more I think about it, the more the problem must rest within the valve body.. but where?????

    Thanks again for all the help.

  19. #19
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    You're the man....Keep us posted.

    1996 318 5-Speed, Lowered

    "I am Teh Slow...but the ladies don't know!"

  20. #20
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    I will feel like the man after reverse works.. right now I feel like I should have saved for the 5 speed manual swap.. come to think of it.. I like your rims too.. I have a guy who might sell me his full set for $250, but I don't want to buy them till I have a FULLY working transmission.

    We should meet though so I can just steal your rims and transmission, we both live in Houston.. I will take you out for lunch first, you can pick... LOL

    But seriously, I will let you guys know what happens.

    I think I am going to rebuild the adapter case valve body again, tear it down, inspect it thoroughly.

    If anyone has any detailed info/diagrams on the adapter valve body so I know what to look for that would be cool.

    I will be checking back.. desperately... LOL

    Thanks again guys!

    Searching the forums I did find this:

    http://www.transmissiondigest.com/te...ing%20HTML.htm

    Which is pretty interesting. The gentleman who posted it was experiencing a similar issue after swapping a newer transmission into an older car with an older ECM... or vice-a-versa.

    Unfortunately, he never posted his fix for reverse.

    But this link speaks of issues emanating from the TCC solenoid located in the Adapter valve body. I did replace that.. so I am going to examine it and make sure I put it back together correctly when I do the tear down of the adapter valve body.
    Last edited by xEmber; 11-04-2010 at 11:49 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  21. #21
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    man, i am in auto trans class at my school right now, let me whip out my book and see if i can help u out

    give us a quick whats up with the car, like how it shifts, in all ranges , then whats wrong with it, i can run the issue by my instructor who is a guru at this shit lol, keep it short and sweet
    Last edited by xINDOx318I; 11-05-2010 at 12:01 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  22. #22
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    Well basically,

    Indo,

    It runs great going forward, you would never know anything was wrong.

    Prior to the rebuild I had a burnt 2nd clutch pack. I replaced those lined and steeled plates along with all the other lined and steel plates through out the transmission.

    I also installed a new rear band (transmission only has a single band). I adjusted the band the the manufacturer specs of 40 in lbs and then back off 5 turns.

    I did have the force motor hooked up backwards when compared to the pictures above, but now I wonder if that even matters since everything else in there is idiot proof.

    I get reverse lights, occasionally I get the tiniest bit of reverse tire movement, but mostly it just goes forward in reverse (not on the ground though, only when jacked up).

    In fact, I can emulate the drive gear in neutral and in reverse if I first shift to drive, rev through the gears, then put it in to neutral after coming to a complete stop, I hit the gas and I can get it up to 50 mph! The same for reverse.

    Now, it won't do this on the ground mind you, and it only lasts for 5 seconds tops before it all powers down and acts like neutral, reverse also acting like neutral.

    I have taken apart the transmission and double inspected all of the internals. The only thing I am worried about now internally is if I installed the band right, but I remember it being idiot proof, plus I don't think I could tighten down the servo if the band was misaligned.

    And that is pretty much it in a nut shell, it just wont go to reverse and it has some funny problems, can go to 50 mph going forward, briefly in reverse and neutral while on the jack stands and has all new plates, band, torque converter, seals, gaskets, etc...

    Sorry, I realize now this is running a little long. I am interested to see what you guys recommend though!

    I will be testing to see if I have engine braking in manual first as soon as I find someone to help me push it out of the drive way.. because I can't back it up, lol.

    But going forward, everything shifts smoothly and runs beautifully, I actually didn't realize how much balls the car had at a 1.9 litre as I purchased it with tranny problems that I drove on for 5k miles.

    Thanks for anything you can do Indo!!!

    And anyone else too!

  23. #23
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    You need to get a circuit diagram and see how reverse flows. Did you save all your old gaskets? I would get another gasket kit, tear the tranny apart and match them up. If your that positive you have everything together correctly, then there you go. You sure the check balls went into the right gallys? That could cause leakage for sure, lol.

  24. #24
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    I am looking at a 95 vert with an auto tranny that has some issues so I'm glad I found this thread. It sounds like I could tackle a rebuild of the tranny.

    How much did you spend for all the internal parts you replaced?

    Where exactly can you get the manual that walks you through this rebuild?

    Edit: found the manual. Is this the same auto tranny that would be in the 95 325 I'm looking at? http://atsg.com/cart/products/4L30E-152-8.html
    Last edited by flyfishvt; 11-06-2010 at 07:13 AM.

  25. #25
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    It is the same transmission fly.

    Also, I already took the transmission back apart and inspected the gaskets at the reverse piston, comparing them to the original that I removed, which by time looked like something out of a tomb because it was crumbling away.

    However, it was obvious that the gaskets lined up in such a way that nothing was blocked.

    As for the check balls, I hope to god they are all in the right place

    I think at this point everyone has pretty much agreed that the problem resides in the valve body. The cool thing about that is that I can put the exhaust back on and drive it around town at least with no reverse till I have the epiphany, or until I just rebuild it and it works...

    I am going to work on the exhaust today though which will allow me to get out on the road and do some prolonged testing on the transmission which might yield some different results which could then point me in a different direction.

    Thanks Guys!

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