!!ENGINE VIBRATION!! M60 Engine, Can't Figure It Out!!

[Faster Life]

The vibration comes from the engine, is constant, and is most noticeable between 1000 and 2000 RPM. At freeway speeds, it feels like it comes in waves (little faint shakes every second or so.) The engine seems to run fine. No hesitation, returns to idle nicely, etc. It also seems to have normal power. The vibration is there when the car is in neutral as well.

Here's what I've done so far:

- Replaced all ignition coils
- Replaced all spark plugs
- Replaced fuel filters
- Checked motor mounts = good
- Checked compression = good
- Disconnected MAF sensor = no change, except ran more roughly

I installed the ignition coils and fuel filters today, and figure if ether were the problem, the vibration would be gone. However, is it possible the ECU might need time to adapt to the new hardware or a disconnected MAF sensor? I've put approximately 30 miles on the car after those repairs.

Next is checking the fuel injectors. Does anyone have any other ideas as to the source of this problem? I'm starting to run out of ideas...

Thanks!

[jehu]

Unbalanced Auxiliary AC Cooling Fan at high speed.

[Faster Life]

Really?

[atec77]

The vibration comes from the engine, is constant, and is most noticeable between 1000 and 2000 RPM. At freeway speeds, it feels like it comes in waves (little faint shakes every second or so.) The engine seems to run fine. No hesitation, returns to idle nicely, etc. It also seems to have normal power. The vibration is there when the car is in neutral as well.

Here's what I've done so far:

- Replaced all ignition coils
- Replaced all spark plugs
- Replaced fuel filters
- Checked motor mounts = good
- Checked compression = good
- Disconnected MAF sensor = no change, except ran more roughly

I installed the ignition coils and fuel filters today, and figure if ether were the problem, the vibration would be gone. However, is it possible the ECU might need time to adapt to the new hardware or a disconnected MAF sensor? I've put approximately 30 miles on the car after those repairs.

Next is checking the fuel injectors. Does anyone have any other ideas as to the source of this problem? I'm starting to run out of ideas...

Thanks!

Drop the fan belt off and see if it is still there (watch the temp) if it still is then take a look at the harmonic balancer , if it is gone you have a fan or a/c pump out of balance , testing the balancer can be done with a chalk mark and timing .light

[dme88]

Take a stick (or stethoscope) and press it to the injectors while the engine is running. You should have done this before replacing the coils. If the injector is quiet the coil or the injector, at that position, is bad.

[Faster Life]

I'm going to call my mechanic on Monday. Hopefully I can check everything you guys are talking about. Would a fan out of balance really cause such I vibration? If it was an A/C component causing the vibration, would the A/C system need to be on?

[jehu]

I'm going to call my mechanic on Monday. Hopefully I can check everything you guys are talking about. Would a fan out of balance really cause such I vibration? If it was an A/C component causing the vibration, would the A/C system need to be on?

Recently my AC Aux Cooling fan lost low speed,its a two speed system. I had never felt it run on High before. One day I pulled into a gas Station and suddenly felt a vibration in the steering wheel. Almost like a hum but a little more intense. The car was running. I walked around the car, looked under the hood and when i felt the engine cover it was vibrating pretty seriously and I began to freak .. It was only a few days later that i realized it may be the Fan then when i learned to jump the Radiator Temp Sensor Plug to test the settings I felt the vibration when the fan came on high speed. I may have failed to adequately tighten the three nuts which secure the frame to the car or the little metal clips on the blades which appear to be for balancing may have shifted. I can feel it in the steering wheel while d riving when it comes on so its pretty damed intense for such a small motor. I always like to mention the easy,simple things .

[Faster Life]

I appreciate your detailed response. Let me see what you guys think about this, in regards to the A/C fan causing the vibration:

When I start the car, it revs up to about 2000 RPM like any car does. I feel the vibration immediately, right as the tach needle passes 1000 RPM. Being that the vibration is more noticeable at 1000 to 2000 RPM, it seems to disregard the fan theory unless the fan changes speeds with engine RPM. If the fan has 2 speeds, wouldn't the vibration stay consistent through the entire RPM range? I'm not trying to act like I know what I'm talking about, but I figure if the fan has 2 speeds and is causing the vibration, the vibration wouldn't fluctuate with RPM.

In terms of the harmonic balancer, where is it located and how do I check it? I'm not sure how to locate it, and does the car need to be on a lift?

[Binjammin]

I'd drop the lower oil pan and see if your oil pump bolts have all loosened up and fallen out.

Yes, seriously.

[Kleos]

I had a buddy that had this exact problem. It just. Went away.
I thought it would be a motor mount, but.. they don't just fix themselves.

[jehu]

The Fan wouldn't be coming on at first start up.. only after coolant and or ambiet temps trigger it ...

[Faster Life]

Well, I went on a 30 mile drive today to see if it would improve. Right when it seemed that the vibration had lessened a bit, I got picked for 44 in a 30. Still, it could have been worse as I was around 60 at one point, and I also had an expired license. (It was my birthday last week!) Then on the way home I played "dodge the cones" that somehow got scattered across the two open lanes of freeway. Agggh....

Binjammin, would you please fill me in a bit on your idea?

Oh, and I also randomly get "coolant level" displayed on my gauge. Usually shows up on shut down. I figured its a bad sensor, as the engine temp is always normal and there is adequate coolant. Maybe this is messing with the fan? But if the fan isn't moving on start up, then its not possible that its causing the vibration...

[Binjammin]

Binjammin, would you please fill me in a bit on your idea?

m60s are known for oil pump bolts loosening up and falling out. Check to see if yours is so loose the pump's causing a vibration. Drain the oil and remove the lower pan, inspect the oil pump for loose and missing bolts.

[Faster Life]

Got it my friend. An easy thing to check. Also this might be worth pointing out; When I bought this car, the clutch was gone. The first thing I needed to do was have a shop replace the clutch. While I think (and hope) its not related to the new clutch, I've read other threads about engine vibrations and flywheels started being tossed around.

The thing to remember about this vibration is that it does show up while the car is OUT OF GEAR. I don't think this eliminates the flywheel, but the vibration seems worse sometimes when its in neutral. Also, sometimes during a heavier vibration, I can hear the exhaust (or thats what I think it is) rattle a bit under the car. Any chance a loose exhaust could be causing this?

[atec77]

Got it my friend. An easy thing to check. Also this might be worth pointing out; When I bought this car, the clutch was gone. The first thing I needed to do was have a shop replace the clutch. While I think (and hope) its not related to the new clutch, I've read other threads about engine vibrations and flywheels started being tossed around.

The thing to remember about this vibration is that it does show up while the car is OUT OF GEAR. I don't think this eliminates the flywheel, but the vibration seems worse sometimes when its in neutral. Also, sometimes during a heavier vibration, I can hear the exhaust (or thats what I think it is) rattle a bit under the car. Any chance a loose exhaust could be causing this?

The harmnic balancer is the vibration damper ring on the front end of the crank , if it or a flywheel bolt are damaged or loose it can vibrate
Can you by bumping the thorttle determine if the vibration is on acceleration or deceleration or both ?
I had an a/c unit go bad in a Ford and it made a bad vibe between 2 and 3 k

[Faster Life]

I just got back from a long, middle of the night drive. The vibration occurs both under acceleration and deceleration, predominantly at 1900 RPM. However, the vibration is always there. Its just so light at other RPMs, no one else would notice. Because of this and good engine performance, I think its pretty safe to cross off fuel or spark from the list...

[jingjoh]

The crank pulley/harmonic balancer doesnt need to be far out to cause issues, I went for over 12 months pulling my hair out because the car would cut out on acceleration when cold, IE temp gauge at halfway but only been driving for 10 mins or so cold, accelerate to 4-4500rpm and it would violently cut out like someone was turning the ignition on and off (which they were effectively doing as it turns out! the DME was anyway).

I checked everything over and over, searched forums, never found anyone who had experienced this. It would trip the CA sensor fault code when it happened, clear the code and warm up carefully for 30 mins always ran fine, no code, get it to cut out and code came back. Turned out to be the crank pulley/harmonic balancer running slightly out of round! Enough when cold to cause the CAS to misread as the rpm climbed tripping out the computer. My pulley rubber was cracking and expanding on one side, if you look at it from the front you see the inner piece bolted to the engine and the outer piece which sits over the inner, separated by a layer of rubber around 1/4 inch thick. Running out of alignment slightly is normal from the looks of it, but out of round is where problems start.

I picked up a very low mile harmonic balancer and had it fitted, bingo fixed all my issues instantly and I swear it idles smoother now too.

Anyway not likely your issue but this info might be worth archiving as I eventually found it in the old roadfly E34 site archived from 2002! A guy with a similar problem and fix to mine.

When you feel the vibration is the clutch in or out? and in gear or out? IE if you sit with your foot on the clutch out of gear and bring the revs up do you feel it?

[Faster Life]

It doesn't matter whether its in gear or not. Clutch in/out, neutral or in gear the vibration is always there. It seems that it might be worse when the car is in neutral. I've been thinking it could very well be the harmonic balancer...

[Faster Life]

Well, its going to the mechanic on thursday. I think I know what to go over with him, but any other questions/suggestions for the mechanic are always helpful...

[dwarfer]

Hello im in Russia. Lots of people got that problem of vibratoin at low rpm on m60. Use google translate and read this article http://madi-auto.ru/article.html?id=10 its in russian

The solution that did one man. It is also translated by google.
By lots of requests I reveal the secret of M60. Well you know right, use the health and happiness! As the saying goes for good people do not mind (sorry for not having shared this info, just wanted to make sure that valid only works (and it really works, tested by more than 10 cars - the result of 100%). And so start, change valve gas recirculation (eventually it stops working, but worth it not expensive 50 - $ 60), although there have been cases where, without a replacement everything was OK, also check the lambda - probes, compression, eliminate air leak (if any). Getting Started (http://madi-auto.ru/article.html?id=10-read many useful) remove valve covers both heads, but they are talking about the second head and you will need to do it in both, with the first must turn along the engine shaft at 5-7 mm (do not know how many degrees, but there degrees and do not need), and the second at 3 mm, and in principle it is we no longer needed. If it does not help the scientific method of spear, but the twist is just 1 head. The first time I got to 9 th attempt, and then sometimes even the first worked. A pipe in the collector, I never punched, so that i think you will do without her. So good luck and patience, and generally M60 super. Try and accomplish your goal. Way out of the tool you need is a flat screwdriver, cap wrench 10 at 8 and key 27.

care!!! that man did this operation on his risc, he s not a pro mechanic!

[Faster Life]

Dwarfer... You are the man, man!!! Thanks!

Anyways, heres what I want the mechanic to check tomorrow. Me and a buddy stethoscoped the injectors today, and they sound fine.

-Harmonic Balancer
-Flywheel, flywheel bolt
-Exhaust and Transmission mounts

Other then that, I don't know what else. I'm going to check the oil pump this weekend myself.

[Faster Life]

After the mechanic I only know two more things, before he said "I don't know, maybe you should go to the dealer."

-fuel injectors are all firing and ticking away
-no vacuum leaks

Let the battle continue...

[NoBummers]

Hey, I got the same issue: '94 M60, 150k, definitely rattles between 1000 and 2000 rpms. Replaced both motor mounts, which were shot. Handles a little tighter, but vibration still there. My mechanic tested with a different set of coils-- didn't change anything. He says it's something inside the crankcase. i just replaced the oil pan gasket last year, and didn't see any fallen bolts/metal or anything, but based on Bin's tip am tempted to drop it again and look inside for anything loose (thanks for the tip, BTW).

Doesn't really impact driveability, but the vibration is slightly annoying, and I get the sense that at some point, the thing will just blow up or something will otherwise go really badly. My mechanic says "just drive it until it breaks... it's probably not cost-effective to have me pull the engine apart just for this"

[Jbaroli]

Here I have similar issue but ONLY at idle, from 1000 rpm to 6300 rpm it´s as smooth as it should be, it vibrates and not always idles at the correct speed, idle is rough, it changes with the engine cold from warm, i checked/changed:

ICV/ICV clip broken, was changed
ignition coils
spark plugs
intake hoses (aparently no leaks)
Should change intake temperature sensor and coolant temperature sensor.

Anyone who could help? so I don´t start a new thread.

[Faster Life]

I think what your going through is different then my issue. I've seen my crank pulley vibrate, so I think thats whats going on with me.