Member
I'm looking for some basic specifications on the N54. Searches through Google and Bimmerforums have revealed nothing, which surprises me as this should be fairly common information.
What I really want are simple things like engine weight, height, length, width, and if anybody knows, the same dimensions on the Dinan intercooler and oil cooler.
Thank you!
Member
Do I have to tell you what I'm going to swap it into before you'll tell me how tall it is?
Member
Okay how about...
+
+
???
=
PROFIT!!!
Or maybe great financial hardship. One or the other.
So yeah, could a 3.0L slant-6 possibly fit in place of a 3.0L slant-4?
Did someone say racetrack
BMW CCA Member
Id have to say your really in for a big electronic surprise... Not an easy engine to do much with due to the direct injection and electronics..
Just turbo the Porsche engine....
Gary Gray
If you can take it apart you can make it faster!
Member
You mean in terms of tuning it further? I was planning on going with the Dinan Stage 3 software, which would get me to 400 horsepower, which is my target in the first place.Originally Posted by GGray
Or do you mean in terms of grafting it into older cars?
My "Plan A" involves a single variable vane turbocharger, water/methanol injection, titanium conrods, dry sump oiling...
The N54 is "Plan B".
The engine overhaul is the final stage of a comprehensive long-term upgrade plan, so I've got quite a long time to research, plan, adjust, and build it, but I want to see whether the N54 could even fit in the first place.
Did someone say racetrack
BMW CCA Member
The N54 is almost impossible to put into an older BMW chassis due to the electronics. The ECU is not the type you can just unhook and plug into whatever. It runs a ton of things together through the ECU traction control, ABS, stability control, drive by wire etc etc... I'm sure someone will chime in.. Needless to say you have a mount everest to climb to get the stock ECU to run in anything other than the car it came out of... the direct injection line pressure is way higher than a standard injection system. Special lines etc returnless also. BMW uses a CAN BUS system which is a major PITA to deal with working around.
Feel free to give it a try. But before you go to deep into the project, as in before you buy an engine, do more research on it.
The 3.0 Porsche engien is a pretty tough motor makes a ton of power with a turbo.
Gary Gray
If you can take it apart you can make it faster!
Fast and Loose
BMW CCA Member
Wouldn't a 951 motor or ls1 swap be more ideal?
991 | 964 | G55 | D90 | LX570 |
Past: SC'd e34 540/6, CSL'd E46 M3, E36 M3/4/5, E36 M3 turbo, E36 M3, 335D, Porsche 951, 80 Series LC, Kleeman E55 Wagon, LX470, 970 Panamera TT, E92 M3
Member
I know for sure that the M44.43/44 is an excellent motor and has the potential for enormous power, far in excess of what I'm looking for actually. However, I wanted to figure out whether a Dinan Stage 3 N54 would be an out-of-the-box solution that would fill my requirements with no modification (other than the obvious issues of mating it up to the transmission and connecting BMW wiring to Porsche wiring and such). Clearly this is not the case...
No, either of those engines require modifications to hit 400hp and if I'm going to be building up an engine, I'd rather use the one I've already got. More importantly...I'm not really interested in doing something that's been done a dozen times already. I want a more interesting project
Member
Having owned a 968 for 8 years, I've explored every route possible to get more power into that car. The 951 or LS1 swap are by far the best routes to go. The aluminum block LS1 is about as light as the 3.0 I4, too. There a few SC kits for the 968 as well, but most require taking out the a/c. If you really want to make it a special car, build the 3.0 to the specs of a factory 968 Turbo. An 8v n/a 944 2.7 head bored out to fit the 3.0 pistons with low compression pistons and a turbo. The bottom end of that motor is rock solid and good for 500 hp if you wanted to go that far. Check out rennnlist.com, there are a bunch of guys looking for more power. The route you proposed sounds like something that will cost twice what the car is worth...
Fast and Loose
BMW CCA Member
Not sure I see your point on either of the other motors requiring modification to hit 400hp... So will the n54 and an ls motor will be a helluva lot less stressed.No, either of those engines require modifications to hit 400hp and if I'm going to be building up an engine, I'd rather use the one I've already got. More importantly...I'm not really interested in doing something that's been done a dozen times already. I want a more interesting project
Understand about being different.... But IMO the n54 is just a flat out terrible idea for a plethora of reasons... That being said, it's your car. Good luck.
991 | 964 | G55 | D90 | LX570 |
Past: SC'd e34 540/6, CSL'd E46 M3, E36 M3/4/5, E36 M3 turbo, E36 M3, 335D, Porsche 951, 80 Series LC, Kleeman E55 Wagon, LX470, 970 Panamera TT, E92 M3
Member
I'm already on Rennlist and I've already checked out all of those...
Just not interested in an N/A V8, I just love turbos. And there's no way I'm taking my lovely 16v VVT head and downgrading to an 8v!
The car's not worth much anyway, and with all of the modifications I'm looking to eventually implement, it's already going to exceed the cash value of the car, maybe even before I touch the engine.
Which in a way is perfect...we all know that intensive modifications destroy a car's value, so the ideal platform for heavy customizing is a car that's already modified and severely depreciated.
Member
....Then the simple answer is a turbo LS1....
You don't have to lose the 16v head. It just makes tuning a little tougher with the variocam.
It's your car, it's your call.
Oh, and if this is just a track car, get rid of that rear hatch and weld in a roof panel. They both weigh a ton.
Member
I know. It's just not what I'm looking for.
Not only do I want to keep the Variocam...I'm actually going to talk to MoTeC and see whether we can do something more with it. The 968's Motronic only uses the Variocam to change the cam phasing at two distinct points (1500rpm and 5500 rpm)...but since it relies on a variable chain tensioner actuated by oil pressure, I want to find out if there's a way to make it vary the phasing continuously (if so, the M400 has a provision for CVVT).
Windshield, hatch, and probably quarter windows are getting replaced by Lexan.
It's a track car, but not JUST a track car. Think GT3 RS. I daily drive it and will continue to do so (when it's not in surgery, of course). Maybe I have a mental defect of some sort...but a lot of the features of a track car that would drive away 99.9% of the motoring public are not a problem for me (or in fact a bonus). But I'm keeping some things, like A/C, glass power windows, basic radio/speakers, and likely the power roof panel, although I might gut the panel itself or replace it with carbon.
Member
How about a buick 3.8 turbo out of a GN. Kenny Bell used to make a kit to put it in a 944 and mate it to the factory torque tube. Other than that the LS1 is a good choise as they are getting very afordable and power is cheap and easy to make. The N54 is a bit of a electronics nightmare, stand alone engine management would prob be needed to swap it into something else.
S54 E36 M3/4/5
how about a 2JZGTE. a stock 100% toyota 2jzgte with BPU++ will blow any "dinanriah" package away, cost less, be easier to work on (with straight instead of slanty 6), etc etc
2JZGTE eats n54 alive for max power output, reliability, avalibility when comparing apples to apples. 2jzgte built on N54 budget would mean a set of HKS twins (650rwhp easy, stock toyota engine needs 0 modification for under 700rwhp)
, n54 has crumbly guts made from cast pistons, horrid turbo placement, silly e-throttle and stupendously high pressure direct inject fuel system (which costs more than the 944 chassis is worth), etc etc etc.
a stock 2jz-ge ($300 castaway nonturbo grocery getter gs300 motor) is stronger than any N54 could dream of being. 800rwhp ok.
don't hate on the japanese 6, it was designed in GERMANY!!!
boo on silly slanty 6 with turbos in horrid places.
Last edited by wanganstyle; 06-21-2010 at 05:18 AM.
Wanganstyle Powertrain
http://www.wanganstyle.com/
S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
16 valve E36 M3 :-0
If the 3.0L inline 4 weighs anywhere near what an LSx weighs, that is a heavy four cylinder!The LSx T-56 conversion in my '97 M3 is going to add approx. 150 lbs to the nose of the E36 over the iron block inline 6 cylinder S52 it is replacing! (S52 is right at 100 lbs lighter, than and LSx, T-56 trans is apporx 40 lbs heavier than ZF 5 speed). If the 3.0L four is honestly as heavy as an LSx, (I would like to think it is lighter) the much lighter weight BMW iron block inline 6 cyl S52 might be an option, especially boosted. 240 HP stock, 280 HP with simple bolt ons and a tune, 500+ HP with boost, right at 100 lbs lighter than an LSx! LSx and T56 is right at 150 lbs heaver than the S52 and ZF 5 spd.
There are tons of incorrect assumptions regarding engine weights floating around the net that for those that don't work around engines for a living will buy into. As professionally engine builder/machinist I was getting frustrated with coming across so many of those grossly inaccurate quotes that I broke down and purchased a hanging crane scale accurate to 2 tenths of a pound. I started weighing multiple engines and transmissions, and started a thread where engine swappers could get accurate real world weight figures for various power plants. Since then I have weighed many engines including LS6, LM7, S52, SR20DET, EJ22, L24, and many more here in this link;
Click ME for the engine weight thread.
If anyone relatively local to the greater Portland Oregon area has a complete engine out of the car that is not in that link that they want weighed, contact me via PM.
Hope that helps,
Paul
Member
Crappy old SOHC engine that doesn't make the power I'm looking for anyway.
Not looking for an iron engine, not looking for a completely upright inline engine to try to fit into an engine bay currently housing a slanted engine, not looking for a sequential turbo setup that's about to break if it hasn't already.
968
LS1 is supposed to be very light, at least for a V8. Looking around the interwebs, could be anything in the 380-480 range, the higher end of that being the most likely. I'd really like to find the weight specs on the M44.43/44.
And so why would I want to swap in a different NA motor and then boost THAT, when I can boost my own NA motor?
I'm not particularly looking for iron blocks, V-blocks, or non-CVVT, but most of all I'm not looking for anything that isn't making 400hp already.
Guys, thank you all, but the only reason I wanted to look into the N54 was that I really liked the idea of getting a direct drop-in all-aluminum direct-injection CVVT inline-6 with 400 horsepower out of the box, no mods (reflash doesn't count). Since the electronics apparently make this impossible, I'd rather just build up my own engine.
Last edited by JDS; 06-22-2010 at 05:48 AM.
S54 E36 M3/4/5
if alu block / weight / balence is the goal, why not a sr20det? power is easy, parts are easy, OEM turbo parts are relaxed for that engine
will you have hood clearance issues without the slant? slant engine + turbo =
Wanganstyle Powertrain
http://www.wanganstyle.com/
S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
Member
the n54 weighs 187kg if that helps. goodluck with the swap, its not gonna be easy....or cheap
16 valve E36 M3 :-0
No you are getting it! If your engine and trans is similar weight to the S52 with ZF 5 speed which is are already 150 lbs LIGHTER than and LSx with T56, build that!
Don't let the terms "Aluminum Block" CVVT, VTEC, VVT, "VCT", "NVCS", "DOHC" be the only criteria you must have to obtaining enhanced overall performance. I'm sure there are a few powerplants meeting your 400 HP that don't have those fancy terms embossed on the plastic intake covers. You can have incredible performance at modest weights without an aluminum block or VVT. In fact, most of the aluminum block multi cam VVT engines are still quite heavy. If you are truly interested in a performance gain, look at the whole package for what it has to offer performance wise, not just the material the block is made from or the acronyms on its valve cover that you'll clutter up your forum signature with. Power to weight ratio, up to a given over all weight. When I say entire package, that includes the transmission as I eluded to in my first post. For instance, the LSx and it's readily available 6 speed the T56. It is a heavy pig at 138-145 lbs! BMW ZF 5 speed is under 85 lbs!
Too bad V-blocks are on your list of no-can-do because the GM L92 is an LSx series engine offered in the trucks/Denali/Escalade, aluminum block, AND Variable Cam Timing, 403 HP stock, 6.2L! Meets your aluminum block, VVT and 400 HP starting point requirement, and has lots of aftermarket support as well. Lunati, Comp Cams, Isky, etc are offering special grinds to take advantage of the GM LSx Variable Cam Timing.
$.02 from a crotchety old engine builder/machinist that has built and owned sub 3000 lb, low 12 second daily driver sports cars
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