M20 stroker build.....y'all ready for this?!?

[ZombiE30]

Court M3: This isn't going to be a 2.7. This is going to be at least a 2.9 and I'm still toying with the feasibility of doing a 3.0. Regardless, I will be happy to share dyno charts!

Hello again good citizens!

This past weekend could easily have proved to have been the most frustrating, but in the end, our intrepid heroes have triumphed and glory has been achieved!

It began with a stubborn connecting rod bolt and a seemingly gargantuan crankshaft mounting bolt, but both were defeated through brains, brawn and a complete disregard for safety!

The connecting rod bolt was initially stripped by an inappropriate application of the torx e16 socket. I then purchased a stripped-bolt kit which made it worse. So, I attempted to JB Weld the socket to the bolt. This also didn't work. But you know what DID work? The 10mm 12 point socket that was originally intended for the job! Who knew!

But how to undo the crankshaft bolt? Very little information was found through the search function, and most of that consisted of fear and horror.
"That thing is torqued to 500ft/lbs+your grandma. Just buy a new car"-one poster says
So I did what any rational person would do and asked checker if I could borrow their crank immobilizing tool. To this they responded: "wat". My next option was to go to the dealership.
So instead I jammed some rocks between the crank counterweights, put the block under my other car and bought a 5ft lead pipe.



And it bloody worked!

NOTE: IT'S NOT A RIGHT HAND THREAD. I definitely managed to tighten it another 45 degrees before I was just dangling off of the end of a 5ft cheater bar, which by my calculations.......would be +/- 700 ft/lbs.

stay tuned for more wizardry!

tag cloud for future searchers:
crankshaft bolt mounting retaining astronomical cosmic torque left hand thread not right connecting rod bolt not torx stripped socket 10mm 12point

[rpm620]

wow.

[kishg]

no engine stand, impact wrench?

[kpd7720]

I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty sure my wheel chock is a different design than that one...

[Tahoe M3]

Hello again faithful readers!


Also, the flywheel bolts are a bitch and a half. Mainly, immobilizing the flywheel is the nasty part since you've got to apply 100 ft/lbs to the bolts to break them loose.
Apparently there is a special BMW tool for this, but I found that using vice grips and an old sheet and standing on the block work equally as well.

Somewhere along the line I read about a flywheel holding tool. It consists of a piece of steel with a whole at each end that allows you to put a bolt through it into one of the threaded holes in the flywheel and another into the case using a mounting bolt. I made one from a piece of light sheet steel I had laying around. Pretty crude but it worked like a charm at holding the flywheel still while I loosened and then tightened the flywheel bolts. You might want to try that at reinstallation time.

[ZombiE30]

i like that flywheel holding idea! I'll have to remember that during reassembly stage!

Behold! Step 1 is complete! Engine has been disassembled and cleaned! (courtesy of steam tank at community college)



Now onto STEP 2: Ordering replacement parts/machining the block and head (aka Only Eat Ramen Stage)

[stoliver54]

Where is the damn engine stand Peter? I am digging your creativity, and willingness to share the unique methods for overcoming obsticles. You da man
Glad to see that you were able to get everything disassembled and cleaned, it is looking good

So stage 2 would mean no more Chipotle runs?
Are you still researching pistons and crank options? Do you have a CR goal in mind or is that still up in the air? Good luck with everything, and I will stop by and check out the progress when I get back in town.

[ZombiE30]

Where is the damn engine stand Peter?..... .

I know! I tried to use it, but as I was sliding the head bolts through, I realized that they were the only ones long enough and had no corresponding nuts. The tranny bolts were too short.

So I moved on to plan X....(see above)

I will be using that for reassembly though so I don't have to do it on the damn floor.

I'm not sure about CR yet. My guts are telling me 10:1 or 10.5:1, but I haven't actually done any solid research.

Priority now is to get the eta and vert to pass emissions so I don't have to pay COs $500 late fee.

[Evoandy]

LAWLLLLLZZZZ @ post # 26. that seriously made my day. Internet pop-culture-phenomenon worthy pic in the making.

[ZombiE30]

Hello and happy holidays to all e30s and their caretakers!

Due to weird scheduling and nasty weather (and mostly bald tires) I haven't really gotten much further on this since last time I posted.

However, I did make this...
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pictureid=1584


I have also been doing a lot of research, which is a very key part of the equation when it comes to building, so I will summarize what I have come up with so y'all won't have to read 20+ pages of bickering (I must have had 'pissing contest' in my search string by accident, although some of it was downright hilarious indeed!)

ENGINE MANAGEMENT:
stock-no gains, but a known quantity

aftermarket single tune-MarkD, Alpina, Dinan in that order. Those are the only ones I remember off the top of my head (which is leaking information out the ear gasket) I believe turnermotorsports has one and bmpdesign also, but those didn't come up enough to get any kind of solid impression.

aftermarket multi-tune-miller WAR chip. This had lots of enthusiasm.....yet very little actual feedback. It sure sounds versatile, but I have honestly no idea.

remap current ECU-ostrich and tunerpro. This too, sounds very versatile. The program is free.......and the hardware required isn't. Megasquirt also does this. Both look like they have steep learning curves as far as understanding what is actually happening, which I believe would be ultimately time consuming but very rewarding (provided I wouldn't blow up the car first).

japanese gameshow ECU-run to the top of a hill in a bunny suit while people roll giant paper mache boulders at you while answering trivia questions about the plant kingdom. if you get one wrong or fall into a pit of goop, your timing belt breaks.

COMPRESSION RATIO:
again, little consensus on the numbers. The highest I saw without anyone referencing jet fuel was 10.5:1. However, Stuck was adamant about having his stroker at 10.3:1 pinging like quasimodo in the bell tower. So.....I'm thinking 10.0 but I'm going to ask Metric Mechanic and Korman while I shop for pistons, and get back to you. In any case, these all would need premium gas.
I also heard a lot of good things about running a 7:1 compression ration and shaving unneeding weight off of the crankshaft at random with an angle grinder.

CAMSHAFT:
As I understand it, this is mostly based upon the intended application. Certain cams are better for street vs drag racing vs track vs rally. There are so many pros and cons to each one that I'm just gonna leave this alone for now.

PORTING/VALVES:
there seems to be the general impression that the m20 head is the primary source of air restriction, besides the AFM barn door. It can be ported (as well as valve size increased) to increase air flow in and out. However, it can be a fairly expensive procedure for what seems to be minimal results. I am sure if done properly with great planning and purpose (and other mods), this can help a lot, but I'm not sure it would be worth the $ for a basic fun build such as I am doing.

AIR MEASURING:
stock: AFM. It works, but restricts air flow with its vane meter system.
MAF: Measures air by mass and not by volume. Its proponents often claim astounding HP gains. Most dynos have not directly shown this to be the result of the MAF alone, however, it is frequently acknowledged that it yields a much faster throttle response (nothing in the way) which sounds good to me!
HFM: As far as I can tell, this is a type of MAF that measures mass by using a current through a hot film (opposed to hot wire) poking down into the air stream.
MAP: Measures air pressure in the manifold itself. I could not find much on putting into e30s, though I haven't totally explored this yet. It sounds promising, especially for boost applications, plus it would then be able to compensate for being at altitude.
digital scale: The air steps on the scale in the morning and then squeals when it realized it has not lost any weight. It then goes to the refrigerator and throws out everything that tastes good.

EXHAUST:
stock: tuned well.
aftermarket: More about upgrading one's sound than anything. Again, this is messing with air flow characteristics which I'm gonna leave to fluid dynamics professors. Increased flow shows gains at one RPM and a loss at another. Choose your poison.
fart can: Adds 20hp to the wheels. If properly installed, one or more nuts should be loose so it can jangle and rattle when the 8" subs hit.

PIMPIN':
slightly pimpin': stock. 4 doors, slushboxes and multi-color etas
mad pimpin': ground control coilovers. low profile tires. clean engine bays. engine swaps. turbos.
hella pimpin': winding two lane road with the top down. (cabrio only)

anyone with any of the above modifications feel free to chime in with your respective experience!

Sorry for the long post! Holy crap!

It sure feels like I should be an engine wizard after staring at this computer screen for so long, but there's definitely a lot more to learn!

[Dan Miller]

Hey Looks good, Have fun with this.
If you need tuning check us out, we offer the best and cheapest solutions for Tuning your engine when its done!
http://millerperformancecars.com/cat...&category_id=6

[Tahoe M3]

Now that is a true Bimmer gear-head holiday statue. Awesome! and thanks for the laugh. Both the man-ifold and your research summary.
Seriously, I'm appreciating your research quite a bit because I'm not interested in spending money without a worthwhile return.

[ZombiE30]

TahoeM3, gnubberlang and others with positive words: thanks for the encouragement and following along! Hopefully this is fun and informative, as that is how I prefer things to be.

Went to the Denver Euro GTG today and did a little more research. Nate (CaptainDrifto on some forums) was there representing Bavarian Motorist in his stroked and near weightless 325e.
He's running a 2.9L stroker with an aftermarket chip (forgot to ask which one), 320i manifold, 3.46 diff and 10.3:1 CR and said he put down 150hp and 210ft/lbs on the dyno. This may seem strange, but he kept the 'e' head on instead of the 'i'. So the numbers reflect an improvement on eta specs (normally 120ish hp and 170ish torque).

This isn't exactly what I'm doing, but it's close, and those are encouraging results.
Off to the machine shop tomorrow.....

[VacMan]

Hello and happy holidays to all e30s and their caretakers!

Due to weird scheduling and nasty weather (and mostly bald tires) I haven't really gotten much further on this since last time I posted.

However, I did make this...
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pictureid=1584


I have also been doing a lot of research, which is a very key part of the equation when it comes to building, so I will summarize what I have come up with so y'all won't have to read 20+ pages of bickering (I must have had 'pissing contest' in my search string by accident, although some of it was downright hilarious indeed!)

ENGINE MANAGEMENT:
stock-no gains, but a known quantity

aftermarket single tune-MarkD, Alpina, Dinan in that order. Those are the only ones I remember off the top of my head (which is leaking information out the ear gasket) I believe turnermotorsports has one and bmpdesign also, but those didn't come up enough to get any kind of solid impression.

aftermarket multi-tune-miller WAR chip. This had lots of enthusiasm.....yet very little actual feedback. It sure sounds versatile, but I have honestly no idea.

remap current ECU-ostrich and tunerpro. This too, sounds very versatile. The program is free.......and the hardware required isn't. Megasquirt also does this. Both look like they have steep learning curves as far as understanding what is actually happening, which I believe would be ultimately time consuming but very rewarding (provided I wouldn't blow up the car first).

japanese gameshow ECU-run to the top of a hill in a bunny suit while people roll giant paper mache boulders at you while answering trivia questions about the plant kingdom. if you get one wrong or fall into a pit of goop, your timing belt breaks.

COMPRESSION RATIO:
again, little consensus on the numbers. The highest I saw without anyone referencing jet fuel was 10.5:1. However, Stuck was adamant about having his stroker at 10.3:1 pinging like quasimodo in the bell tower. So.....I'm thinking 10.0 but I'm going to ask Metric Mechanic and Korman while I shop for pistons, and get back to you. In any case, these all would need premium gas.
I also heard a lot of good things about running a 7:1 compression ration and shaving unneeding weight off of the crankshaft at random with an angle grinder.

CAMSHAFT:
As I understand it, this is mostly based upon the intended application. Certain cams are better for street vs drag racing vs track vs rally. There are so many pros and cons to each one that I'm just gonna leave this alone for now.

PORTING/VALVES:
there seems to be the general impression that the m20 head is the primary source of air restriction, besides the AFM barn door. It can be ported (as well as valve size increased) to increase air flow in and out. However, it can be a fairly expensive procedure for what seems to be minimal results. I am sure if done properly with great planning and purpose (and other mods), this can help a lot, but I'm not sure it would be worth the $ for a basic fun build such as I am doing.

AIR MEASURING:
stock: AFM. It works, but restricts air flow with its vane meter system.
MAF: Measures air by mass and not by volume. Its proponents often claim astounding HP gains. Most dynos have not directly shown this to be the result of the MAF alone, however, it is frequently acknowledged that it yields a much faster throttle response (nothing in the way) which sounds good to me!
HFM: As far as I can tell, this is a type of MAF that measures mass by using a current through a hot film (opposed to hot wire) poking down into the air stream.
MAP: Measures air pressure in the manifold itself. I could not find much on putting into e30s, though I haven't totally explored this yet. It sounds promising, especially for boost applications, plus it would then be able to compensate for being at altitude.
digital scale: The air steps on the scale in the morning and then squeals when it realized it has not lost any weight. It then goes to the refrigerator and throws out everything that tastes good.

EXHAUST:
stock: tuned well.
aftermarket: More about upgrading one's sound than anything. Again, this is messing with air flow characteristics which I'm gonna leave to fluid dynamics professors. Increased flow shows gains at one RPM and a loss at another. Choose your poison.
fart can: Adds 20hp to the wheels. If properly installed, one or more nuts should be loose so it can jangle and rattle when the 8" subs hit.

PIMPIN':
slightly pimpin': stock. 4 doors, slushboxes and multi-color etas
mad pimpin': ground control coilovers. low profile tires. clean engine bays. engine swaps. turbos.
hella pimpin': winding two lane road with the top down. (cabrio only)

anyone with any of the above modifications feel free to chime in with your respective experience!

Sorry for the long post! Holy crap!

It sure feels like I should be an engine wizard after staring at this computer screen for so long, but there's definitely a lot more to learn!

LOL, missed this on xmas but caught it tonight. Thanks for the humorous read! Looks like you truly have been studying.

[Sigsaucer647]

hella pimpin': winding two lane road with the top down. (cabrio only)

YEEEEEEAAAAAAA BOOOOYYYYYEEEE

[ZombiE30]

hello again!

it has been awhile since the last update, due to some scramblings with a bad CV axle on 'the mule' and a recently discovered hairy guibo. That will be addressed tomorrow, and hopefully will remove the car's ability to give me a vibrating massage by shaking violently.

I have also received my power steering delete in the mail, as well as a humongous shipment of gaskets from pelicanparts! awesome! But of course, we always remember more stuff AFTER the order was made. Oh well.

I also scrubbed all the engine accessories with a toothbrush and degreaser. This was not particularly fun, namely because it's extremely tedious and in an unheated area.

Now currently dealing with:

broken odometer
spastic temp gauge
still attempting to find an m52 crankshaft....(then will order pistons)

Honestly, after dealing with these nasty gremlins, vibration and emission issues on the eta, and trying to handle all sorts of bizarre logistics and plans, I was getting kinda stressed out and wondering whether all of this was even a good idea.

So the machine shop calls and says 'hey, your block is ready' and I say 'okay, i'll get it as soon as I get this axle in'.
So I made it down there today, right before they closed and they were super-friendly....and as soon as I see it, i jizzed my pants! The picture doesn't do it any justice (because I suck with a camera), but that is a damn fine lookin' block if I may say so myself. No more nasty gunk, chipping paint or rust and nice baby-bottom smooth gasket surfaces! Suddenly, I'm totally stoked again!! And it was only $190! Maybe that's normal, but I was definitely thinking it would be worse than that....



-86mm-

ps-does anyone have experience with the dual profile sport cam listed at metric mechanic? the article sure made it sound awesome, but I'm not too well versed in that area, and I am going to need to pass emissions and would like a steady idle.......and of course.........MORE POWER

[blitz355]

looking good man!

[richardodn]

I also heard a lot of good things about running a 7:1 compression ration and shaving unneeding weight off of the crankshaft at random with an angle grinder.

That's my favorite. Where did you have the machine work done?

[ZombiE30]

Hello all!

Here is just a quick update for all of you rabid stroker-lovers (pics coming soon).

Today, I learned that IT IS BETTER TO HAVE THE BLOCK BORED WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE PISTONS.

No doubt, some of you are now thinking "duh, I could have told you that", and well, the fact of the matter is, that was never EXPLICITLY stated in any of the searches I did. Many posts mention having the block bored, and getting custom pistons, but DO not mention when each should be done. So, my ass being new to the whole building-a-performance-engine thing, I went and had it bored before ordering pistons.

I was waiting to see which crankshaft I could get my hands on before doing pistons and so I thought I could stay ahead of the game by having the block bored.

Now, after talking to Jim at Metric Mechanic, I find myself needing to measure the bore to an extremely precise number in order to ensure the pistons I order will be appropriate.

So, this mistake isn't by any means catastrophic, but I have simply made a little more work for myself by trying to save time earlier on. Oh well. Live and learn and eat sandwiches.

Tomorrow: Begin removing the m20b25.

RICHARDODN: I had the machining done at Area machine shop on federal. A friendly and inexpensive mom and pop sort of place recommended by Bimmerhaus. They don't do headwork or more complicated things, as I asked them about extending the 180 degree oil groove in the block and main caps to a 360 degree one but they don't have the tools for it. We'll see if I have to go back and have the block clearanced when the crank gets here.......(another reason to have waited).

[russo7]

as for the air intake, idk if you have though if it as im up late and tired, but i would love to see some velocity stacks know what i mean?!?!?

[Kyle B]

What size did you have the cylinders bored out to? MM2900 pistons are 86mm. As long as you didn't have it bored out to 86mm (or larger) and you plan on using the MM pistons you should be OK. The specs on the bores for those pistons require slightly tighter tolerances in the middle cylinders to account for greater thermal expansion. They are very nice pistons by the way, and if you fuel the car correctly you will not have any engine knock. I don't

If you already had it bored to 86mm, you might be shopping for a new block.

[ZombiE30]

Hello again!

Here is the latest and greatest from the ever intrepid and terrible photographer, Zombalicious!

Today we finished pulling out the old m20b25 in engines class! HELLLZ YEA



(note the one slightly taut wire going to the fuse box....there was 1x 10mm bolt on the battery cable we didn't notice. not bad for a first time, I think)

All in all, this was actually fairly simple...here's a quick rundown for those who haven't yet had the pleasure:

step 1) raise car, undo exhaust between the headers and catalytic converter (we left the muffler section on...and only ripped 2 bolts in half!)
Also drain oil and coolant.
and remove battery.

2) undo tranny mount bolts and shift linkage

3) undo 3 driveshaft-transmission bolts (to do this, we also had to undo the heat shield brace and heat shield. After completion, we put these back up so the driveshaft would have something to rest on, instead of just dangling there)

4) disconnect slave cylinder, ground strap

5) undo oil cooler lines, disconnect power steering pump, A/C pump (we did these from the top, but would have been easier from the bottom)

6) lower car, pull radiator, fan and shroud

7) remove intake boot and air box

8) Remove ignition coil output wire and two input wires (label)

9) disconnect ECU connector and pull through the firewall

10) remove fuel return line and fuel rail supply

11) remove heater core hoses (broke 1 T junction...oh well)

...the other specifics escape me, but there was a couple other sensors and ground straps. It was also a lot easier to pull the starter to get to the rear hoist point.

The actual hoisting process was fairly simple, just going slow and keeping an eye out for snags (leaky-ass power steering hose ) and since it was with the tranny still attached, it was a lot of "up" "forward" "up" etc.

All in all, the Bentley has a pretty good procedure for this, except it never specifically mentions whether you leave the tranny on or not (we left it attached to the block), and its steps are in such an order that you work top to bottom (ie get dripped on by stuff).

So, there was a lot less bolts than I anticipated and I was very pleased with the simplicity of the removal. (We'll see what I think when the new one goes in )

UP NEXT:

Clean engine bay!
Paint engine bay!
Eject power steering into outer space! (thanks silence on r3v for the ps delete)
Eject A/C into the Mariana Trench!
Toss cruise control in front of a moving train!
Clean transmission! (it's only 1 inch of sludge.....)
Replace tranny seal! (could be bad....looks like PO left gouge/grind marks on the nut)
Replace shift linkage bushings! (+z3 short shift)

to be continued.....

EDIT: oh, i forgot to mention taking the hood off since that is kind of self-evident with a reverse hood like this.

The hood piston has a little clip that pries off easily with a flathead screwdriver, and then there's one mounting bolt for the arm. It also necessitated the removal of the washer fluid reservoir (or draining it) so we could disconnect the hose and leave it attached in the hood. The hood bolts were easier to get to with the hood down, but not lached.

Surprisingly, Alldata wants the hood left on and the engine to be pulled free after removing the transmission. I'm sure it's possible, but that just sounds annoying.

[trackjunkie21]

Promise us that when this is all done you have video's ready for us.

[dklein90]

nice build, hope it continues to go well.

[blitz355]

Any updates?!?