Oil Leak

[E30SCragtop]

I have a 2000 740il. I have a oil leak (the leak isn't really bad) and I took it to my mechanic to get his opinion before I started to do any work on it.

He has given me this list with prices:
V-Pan-$700
Upper Timing covers (is this the seal or the whole cover?)$500
Front Crank Seal $150

First I want to know if anyone has the schematics for this engine they can send me or tell me where I can get it. I know I can buy the Bentley manual but want another option. Free if possible.

Secondly, any advice on doing this my self, getting the parts, etc.?

Alos it has 124k miles and the service engine soon is coming on, I assume for the overall service. What is involved in that and can I turn that off?

Thanks for any help.

[E30SCragtop]

I see a lot of people reading this post but no one cares to give any help. What's the deal? Is this a bad question?.

I really would appreciate some input.

[crewdog843]

Okay....I've got a few minutes on my hands, so here goes:

Firstly, you have an oil leak. How did you discover it? Were there some drops on the floor of your garage, was the engine smoking and smelling of burnt oil? Is it engine oil? Is it (possibly) hydraulic fluid? I find it interesting in light of your ?oil? leak, a mechanic quotes you on your valley pan gasket (v pan), upper timing covers (?valve cover gaskets), and front crank seal.

Your mechanic seems to be skirting the issue at hand here, but maybe you haven't stated the full story. If you are mechanically inclined, you can replace your own valve cover gaskets and valley pan seal. If you have posted on this forum fifty times, you have seen references to www.e38.org. Parts are available through any number of vendors who support this (and other) forums. You can find your own part numbers on www.realoem.com and it is virtually the same as the database the dealer's use.

The service light is coming on (the SES light?)....from your wording it would seem that the SES light is blinking, or coming on and going off. The SES light is not directly related to engine service (the green and yellow lights are for that)....anytime the SES light comes on, it is related to emissions. It can be as simple as not making your gas cap click, or it could be a MAF going bad, camshaft position sensor(s) going bad, or O2 sensors needing replacement. The blinking SES, to me, indicates a possible bad cam position sensor, as you did not say the engine was hard to start or stumbles on acceleration (MAF related). At 124K miles, your engine is a good candidate for O2 sensors (four of them...2 pre and 2 post catalytic converters). You can certainly replace these yourself.

Hope this helps. You could expand a bit on your current problem and we might be able to provide more information.

jake

[plik]

I have a 2000 740il. I have a oil leak (the leak isn't really bad) and I took it to my mechanic to get his opinion before I started to do any work on it.

He has given me this list with prices:
V-Pan-$700
Upper Timing covers (is this the seal or the whole cover?)$500
Front Crank Seal $150

First I want to know if anyone has the schematics for this engine they can send me or tell me where I can get it. I know I can buy the Bentley manual but want another option. Free if possible.

Secondly, any advice on doing this my self, getting the parts, etc.?

Alos it has 124k miles and the service engine soon is coming on, I assume for the overall service. What is involved in that and can I turn that off?

Thanks for any help.

That's very over priced.

Although, the real problem is that you're going to go to the trouble of replacing your valley pan without replacing any of the manifold gaskets or water pump. A similar concern is replacing the timing cover gaskets without replacing the valve cover gaskets.

I would go to a different mechanic. http://www.bimmershops.com/bmwshops/south-carolina/

[E30SCragtop]

That's very over priced.

I was thinking so myself. Thanks for the input.

Crewdog, I appreciate your reply. I did discover the drops of oil on the pavement. Not enough to make the oil level noticeably drop as I have been keeping an eye on that.

I am not burning oil. It is dripping off of the drivers side. I do not have a rack to put it up on so it is difficult to tell where the leak originates from. If I shine a light into the engine I can see some oil residue and it appears to have been leaking for a while. I just bought the car about three months ago and it had to have been doing this before I purchased it.

If it had anything to do with the valley pan I would be seeing coolant leak as well don't you think?

I had been to E38.org already and will use that resource for parts etc. I just wanted some opinions on the price of the work and if it sounded like he was trying to snow me. I'm getting the impression he is.

As for the light...it is the orange/yellow light on the left side of the indicator panel. It does not flash. It comes on and stays light for several miles. (200-300) and then goes off. It has done that twice. Right now it is off. I'll check the cap but I don't think that is the issue as I have had that emissions code come up on me before because of a bad cap.

[crewdog843]

Okay. First of all, the intermittent SES light: Most probably one of the cam position sensors is triggering it (from personal experience). Take it to Autozone, have them read the codes, forget temporarily about the O2 sensors, and post what they tell you. Make sure you jot the numbers down correctly. Typically a cam position sensor going bad will trigger the light, and then it will go away only to come back later. The car may run perfectly well in the meantime.

The drops you see on the pavement: You must make sure they are in fact oil. Flatten a cardboard box and park over it. In the morning, retrieve the box and either blot the drop or put some on your finger. Pull the dipstick and put a drop on another finger (or blot) and compare the two. You can even taste it if you wish, but it is not generally recommended. BMWs of your vintage do not as a general rule, leak oil, unless someone forgot to put the crush washer back on the drain plug. That having been said, you may want to look at the hoses leading from your power steering pump. BMWs of your vintage do have a history of leaking hydraulic hoses.

Get a good set of ramps (note emphasis on 'good'). Drive car up on them and if you want, support the car at its jack points with jackstands (added safety). Crawl under the front end and drop the plastic shroud you find under the engine (it will come completely off just by loosening a few screws, then it will swing down and you can swing it past center and it will come off). Set this aside, and before putting it back on, clean the engine underside side thoroughly. This shroud makes it difficult to tell where your leak is coming from, because any drops will hit it and be redirected. Once cleaned, you should be able to read it and analyze the situation, then act on it as necessary.

Look at the underside of the engine, it it is covered in old oil and grease, get a good degreaser and clean it. Your will be able to see where your leaks are in the future and your engine will run cooler. I don't advocate pressure washing any part of the engine, but a strong stream of water after a degreaser works wonders.

If your valley pan gasket needs to be replaced, you should be able to see coolant if you take a flashlight and shine it down through the intake manifold (take the plastic cover off first). You should also be getting a 'Check coolant' warning.

If your valve cover gasket is leaking, and it probably is at least a little, you will be able to see oil in your plug wells and possibly even feel an uneven idle or miss.

Good luck, and don't be a stranger on this forum. Some folks may not be as quick to respond as others due to day to day demands on their time, but all of us share a couple of things in common: The love of our cars and our desire to help others.

jake

[E30SCragtop]

WOW

Jake, thanks for taking the time to type all that out. Your input is very much appreciated.

I beat you to the punch on testing the drip. I already have cardboard under the car.

I'll get those fault codes and post them. Also getting the ramps in the morning.

I'll post my findings.

[crewdog843]

You are well on your way to bonding with your car. Good luck.

Once you get her cleaned up, keep her clean....each time you wash her, open the hood and dry off any water which gets in, (I use an old towel), then take a brush (paint brush for trim works best) and clean off any dust you see. After a couple of times, not only will you know where everything is and what it does/should do, but your engine compartment will be spotless.

jake

[E30SCragtop]

It is def. oil that is leaking.

Cleaning the engine now. I'll look at it in the next day or two to see if I can get a better idea where the leak is.

Also I had the fault code checked. P0445 which is the gas cap as you suggested. Thankfully it wasn't more than that. I really did not think it was the cap. Live and learn.

Is there a place to download an engine schematic for free or is the only option to buy a manual?

[crewdog843]

By engine schematic, what do you mean? Wiring diagram?

If it's something other than that, I suggest starting a new thread and ask someone with a Bentley to scan whatever you need and pm the file to you direct.

Okay, now that you have established the fact that it is leaking engine oil, the question is from where is it leaking. There are several possible locations: The drain plug (most probable and also easiest to fix). When you do your next oil change, buy the oil from BMW (it is priced quite competitively) and the filter (with which you will get a new "O" ring and a crush washer. Take the plug out using the 17mm tire tool in your trunk...remembering 'lefty loosey, rightey tightey'. Throw the old crush washer away immediately. Drop the oil, and remove the filter (be careful, grab the legs and support them as you turn the cover off so as not to break one or more of the support legs. Let it drain completely....throw away the old "O" ring and replace with new. Filter snaps in and out, it wil turn but does not screw off. If you have some half used cans of oil in your garage, drop the oil through the engine to clean out any old oil and sludge before filling with new oil. Do not get too energetic with the drain plug or you will strip the threads...the pan is steel, the plug is aluminum. Snug down but do not torque.

It could be leaking from the sump, a bit more difficult to remedy but possibly as easy as tightening a couple of the bolts holding it on. If the bolts are already tight, you may need a new gasket or pan (I think the new pans come with an integral gasket).

It might also be leaking from the oil filter canister as well. Check with you hands to see if there is any oil dripping from that location.

With the cardboard on the floor, you should have a good idea of where it is leaking, especially since you have taken the shroud off. BTW, it is safe to drive with the shroud off, at least until you find the leak and/or clean it off.

It is doubtful that it is leaking from the valve cover gaskets as your plug recesses would be full of oil by now, but don't rule it out.

jake

[tabascotk]

So I have a slightly similar situation to this. I changed my oil last night. In doing so, I noticed oil on the backside of the pan, and on the bolts holding the pan. I tried tightening them to see if they were loose, and they are tight. Also, upon inspection of the drain plug, it was dry. My filter housing is dry as well, but there is definitely a leak somewhere. It's not enough to drip through the plastic cover, and only occasionally do I see oil on the ground after it has been parked. Any ideas as to where this could be coming from?

[crewdog843]

It is possible that a previous owner had the oil changed at a franchise which would be a lot less careful than you might be. You didn't say whether the oil looked fresh, or if it was dirty with embedded sand/dirt.

Leave the shroud off for a day and place cardboard under the car. Determine exact location of drip, and take it from there. The age of your car suggests valve cover gaskets, if everything else is tight.

jake

[trinibmw]

i too hav an oil leak as well. my guess is that its your main seal,between engine and tranny. costly fix

[01sport]

My guess is that your mechanic wants $700.00 to do the Valve Cover Gaskets and that "V pan" is some sort of error. Stealers charge $700.00 for VCGs.

[Baddazz]

I have a 98 bmw and i am having the same problems. My car leaks oil right near my driverside front tire. I just got this car.

[hybridbmw]

Heres my $.02 coming from someone who has done quite a few of these

More than likely the oil is coming from you Valve cover gaskets. Easiest way to see if they are leaking is to take a small mirror and a flashlight and look at the backside of the valve covers where the "half moons" are on the gasket. If oil is dripping down the back of the heads then they need to be replaced.

If the valve covers are leaking, go ahead and pickup your upper timing case cover gaskets (they are rubber gaskets, not the whole plates). If you seal the valve covers and the upper timing case covers start leaking your gonna have to pull the valve covers again to replace the timing case covers. Whenever i do a set of valve cover gaskets i always quote the upper timing case covers as preventative maintenance, even if they arent currently leaking.

And now for the valley pan gasket.
If the valley pan gasket is leaking there are a few ways you can go about fixing it. First of all, if the intake manifold hasn't been resealed then i would recommend getting the front and rear plates for the intake manifold, as well as new manifold gaskets and a throttle body gasket.

Once you have the intake manifold removed you will notice there are 2 pipes that run the length of the engine. These pipes are directly over the valley pan and will need to be removed. You have 2 ways you can go about removing the pipes.

1. Removed the water pump
2. removed the coolant pipe on the back of the engine.

If you haven't had a water pump replaced in a while i would purchase a new one as preventative maintenance and go that route. You can also just buy a water pump gasket and re use the old one if yours is fairly new.

You can also pickup the gaskets for the coolant pipe on the back of the engine and go that route. I personally don't like doing this as im kind of a big guy and its hard for me to reach and see back there.

Once the pipes are out of your way your ready to replace the valley pan. If your going to do this yourself make sure you clean the crap out of the valley and make sure that the sealing surface is extra clean and free of any of the old silicon. If it isn't the new valley pan will leak. You also need to be careful when installing the new pan as the tiny bead of silicon on the new gasket likes to break loose and that will cause a leak once installed.

If your going to have a shop do all of this work. Expect to pay roughly 8 hours for the valve cover gaskets and upper timing case covers. And if they are only going to do the intake manifold and valley pan expect another 8 hours. If they are doing it all together there is a little bit of over lap time and the labor should be around 14-16 hours depending on the shop.

If your going to do this yourself. Here is a parts list off the top of my head.

Valve cover gaskets
Grommets (22)
Upper timing case cover gaskets
Vanos solenoid gaskets (depending on engine) *note-there is a special tool to remove the vanos solenoids*
Crush washer for the timing chain tensioner
Front intake manifold cover and gasket
Rear intake manifold cover and gasket (also known as oil seperator)
Intake manifold gaskets
Throttle body gasket
O-rings for coolant pipes
Water pump and seal or rear coolant pipe seal
Valley pan

I would also recommend doing the plugs if your current ones are covered in oil or if they havent been replaced recently.

I may be forgetting a few things. But im pretty sure that covers most of it. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

[Bnolte]

First, if you are not a serious mechanic I recommend that you have a qualified mechanic work on your oil leak. If you are a backyard mechanic I suggest you get a Bentleys BMW service manual(available at good autoparts).
Also, a big barrier to "do it yourself" is all the special BMW tools that are required to perform repair work successfully.
Obviously, BMW does not anyone to work on their cars except BMW mechanics.
As for the Service Light, you need a "reset tool" available at "Bavauto.com' and maybe other sites.

[tekazgtr1984]

Bavauto.com is awesome.

[IcemanBHE]

for Fan bois.

[cazal740i]

$150 for crankseal replacement is cheap.....I was qouted $500....

[Falcon76]

This has been very helpful!!! thanks

[Mayorchuck]

This has been very helpful!!! thanks

Welcome to the forum. You should add the year of your E38 to your car info. This will help us help you down the road. A few bookmarks:

http://www.e38.org/

http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e38/

http://workshop-manuals.com/bmw/7_se...ough_the_skin/

http://www.magnum1.com/magnum/BMW-740/740_Pages/740.php

[704iGuy]

Determine if the oil is coming from around the bell housing. If it looks like this is the area, then go topside of engine and look to the back area at the base of the crankcase. If you see oil pooling in this area, it could be the PCV($80.00+/-) needing to be replaced. As oil leaks from this area it will flow down through the drain port into the bell housing(which can be mistaken for a rear main seal leak). As the pcv gets worse it will start to allow the car to burn off white smoke. As the diaphram fails allowing oil to pool inside the crankcase housing therfore leaking through a bad spot in the valve cover gaskets into the plug wells. This is a regular part that wears out on these cars. This is also the point to replace the vp gasket.(the pan can be reused in most cases). It is also a good idea to check for vaccum leaks. If you buy a gasket kit or just use gasket sealant the price isn't to bad. The pan however will cost you upwards to $100.00-.You should also replace the intake manifold gaskets while you are in the location. 4-5 hour job max. Don't let garages rip you off. If you allow a shop to do this, pin them down for time(shop time as well as how long before they start to work on the car). As I see so many garages that like to hold cars hostage. Tell them not to freelance finding unrelated fixes to your car just to boost your bill. I just had this happen to me from Kauth and Mayuer of Peoria, Illinois.
Winter is a slow season for high end auto repairs

I have a 2000 740il. I have a oil leak (the leak isn't really bad) and I took it to my mechanic to get his opinion before I started to do any work on it.

He has given me this list with prices:
V-Pan-$700
Upper Timing covers (is this the seal or the whole cover?)$500
Front Crank Seal $150

First I want to know if anyone has the schematics for this engine they can send me or tell me where I can get it. I know I can buy the Bentley manual but want another option. Free if possible.

Secondly, any advice on doing this my self, getting the parts, etc.?

Alos it has 124k miles and the service engine soon is coming on, I assume for the overall service. What is involved in that and can I turn that off?

Thanks for any help.

[Mayorchuck]

Welcome to the forum. OP started this thread over 5 years ago. Hopefully he got it sorted by now.