View Full Version : Ultimate Service -- Not so Ultimate? (dealer issues)


E92!Dreier
04-19-2008, 11:55 AM
Yesterday I had my car in for service at Ridgefield (CT) BMW -- the dealership where I bought my car. Basically I was seeking an oil change under coverage, a brake pad change under coverage, and inspection of my tires for severe road noise and signs of cupping. I authorized $100.00 worth of work beyond my Ultimate Service's coverage, thinking that even if the brake pads were a bit ahead of schedule , my SA would meet me half way on the labor, or the parts, or just help me out. Further, if I needed to replace the tires, I would do it at a later date -- I just needed to know where I stood, and document the degredation of the rubber.

I dropped the car off the night before my appointment, and at 8:30 AM yesterday, my SA calls me up. He says that the car is all done, and that they couldn't find anything wrong with my brake pads. I had already spoken to him on the phone twice describing the problem when I made the appointment. Everytime you step on the brake pedal, the pads squeal, even at very low speeds -- I explained this. I also explained that it seemed (to me, a lowly gas pumper/oilchanger/college student/young buck) that the sensor wire was making contact with the rotor, indicating pad wear. This is the second time I have had my car in for brake service (that I should have just done myself) in its first 17,000 miles. The last time they reset the system and changed the sensors, without changing the pads.

My SA explains to me that there is no sensor wire with my pads (wrong) and that there are no signs of pad wear. He says they are all within tolerances. I explain that brakes are a vital system, they are making unbelievably embarassing and troubling squealing noises every time I use them at any speed. I ask for a quote to replace the pads off warranty if my not-so Ultimate Service doesn't cover them yet. He says that they won't even do that because there is no need to. Then before I could even catch my breath he says, "there is also the issues of tires. They are going to need to be replaced because you drive too aggressively and Bridgestone makes these tires to wear very quickly." I counter with my knowledge of premature shouldering on RFT's, the BMW TSB against Turanza tires ( I have potenzas), etc etc, at which point he interupts me and says, "there is no tire coverage, do you want an estimate?" to which I say, "Actually, button up the car, I will be down to discuss this with you and your manager and my salesman who made explicit promises that this sort of nickel and diming would not occur on the Ultimate Service plan, and you won't have to worry about replacing brake pads ever again. -- we should make sure no customers are around so no one knows how upset you have made me. "

I called a different dealership in the area, who offered me an immediate inspection of the brakes and tires, as well as a loaner car if I wanted to drop the car of with them. They also laughed when I recounted my story and said, "we get a call like this once a week!" Great.

First, I called Bridgestone North America. I was informed by their technical advisor, Eric : "These tires are designed by Bridgestone to be rotated every 6,000 miles to avoid uneven tread wear. BMW insists on a staggered setup which does not allow for rotation, and nullifies our engineering." He went on to say that he has heard similar complaints from other BMW owners (as well as owners of other high performance cars with staggered setups and negatvie rear toe especially), who were also being told by BMW (or another dealer) to just shut up and pay, and that he would never buy a new BMW or a 350Z for exactly this reason. The price for a RFT vs. a non RFT aslo made him hesitant to buy any new BMW, except of course the M.

Basically he explained that BMW was lying to me on the telephone -- my driving style and Bridgestone's tire had nothing to due with the premature tread wear or cupping. Rather, it was the lack of rotation, stiffness of the sidewalls, and the geometry of the suspension that were primarily causing uneven wear. He also offered to contact the regional rep from BMW and Bridgestone concerning my complaints. Incredible competence and customer service from Bridgestone. He wanted to know if there was anything he could do to help me remain a Bridgestone customer, and he assured me that if there was something more he could do, he would call me. Also, he suggested writing a letter to BMW NA and Bridgestone, to see if I could get a few dollars out of each of them.

I then bit the bullet. First I called my salesman. He said that he had heard the Service Manager screaming that, "it's jsut brake pads, get it f*cking done!" My salesman said, "it will be taken care of, you have my word." It had been about an hour since I had hung up on my SA. I called back to the dealer and started anew with someone else. She was very pleasant and accomodating, and she was able to get the technician to inspect the brakes further, apparently a major undertaking -- she said she would call back with any new info. OK. An hour later she calls up to tell me that, "We found a bulletin for these pads, and the sensor wire needs to be trimmed (previous SA said there is no sensor wire), and the pads resurfaced. It is being done right now for free." I said "great, as long as they don't squeal." But I also said, "it is very troubling that my car was in for service on the brake pads twice, and that this bulletin is only discovered now, and I have been previously told that there is no sensor wire. I still would rathe rhave new pads. Thank you for what you managed to do."

I went to pick up the car. Service department (at 1 O'clock) is a ghost town. Only a cashier is there. I inquire as to the availability of a Service Advisor. A gentleman overhears me and says, "what can I do for you?.. oh and you have a Giants hat on, I like you already" I exlplain my concerns about the brake debacle, and submit laughingly that I was worried I might be in Patriots territory and that that was the underlying reason for my bad experience. He then said, "oh you're the guy from the phone. Let's get this resolved."

I then also explain my concerns about the tires...He brings me out to my car, and we inspect the tires together. He says, "If they look like this before 20,000 miles (i am at 16,929) I should be able to get Bridgestone to cover the expense of two of them. I said, Holy Sh*t, where were you three hours ago?" He said "don't worry, I can def. do something for you" and I said "I'd rather pay for none, than 2, but I would rather pay for 2 than 4." He laughed and said, " I can almost guarantee two. We'll see about all 4 -- maybe we'll try you running a different tire."

I know that long rant was tough to read, and I think I could have handled some parts of my ordeal better. I need to turn this car back in at the end of the lease with its OEM RFT's. I wish I was willing to ride around with a space saver spare and a jack and compressor and such in my trunk, but I think that is counter productive in terms of performance, comfort and style.

My car is an Ultimate Driving Machine. It outclasses everything else I ride in on a regular basis...my friends own a collection of very nice vehicles: Altimas, GTIs, Subarus, A new Civic SI, SUV's, blah blah blah. They all are captivated by my car's looks, and 18 months into my ownership I am still in love with the car's handling, precision, looks and pedigree. I feel the evolution from my old E36 to my new E92 in the steering wheel everytime I power through a twist in the road.

However, my experience with BMW's Ultimate Service and BMW of Ridgefield's Service Department has left me pondering my future with BMW. There are other cars out there that I have closed my eyes to in the past because I had been blinded by the light from Munich. Now I think that Ultimate Service is just a way for BMW to justify exhorbitant pricing, and it also has become a means for dealerships to try and rip off their customers. The fact that an SA has told me outright lies has not helped. I have cancelled my appointment with the other dealer, and I am researching tires. No one was killed, I paid 0 dollars. However, I was treated poorly by my home dealership, and I am in quandry as to where to go from here -- The end of my lease is coming fast (halfway there). Sure I want an M. but I am tempted to just buy a used junker and work on it in my driveway, rather than trust my purse strings and peace of mind to a car company that has adopted so many things that seem to irk it's customers.

I want: A dipstick, regular tires that last more than 25,000 miles, the elimination of flimsy protrusions in the interior cabin (ie afterthought cupholders and fragile seatbelt presenters), and the end of lies about the Ultimate Service program -- it has proven to not be so ultimate. Please relate your experiences, advice, admonitions, etc.

Thank you, Happy motoring.

IR DOC
04-19-2008, 12:56 PM
I'm curious if the old guy you met at the end of your odyssey was the owner?

E92!Dreier
04-19-2008, 01:04 PM
No, just another SA.

06330i06
04-19-2008, 11:31 PM
I sympathize with your problems. Mine are related to the tires. I have the Potenzas and they were great up to 15k. They still have lots of tread left but after 15k they became very noisy, sort of like a 4x4's offroad tires. Dealer's shop forman said same thing happened to the tires on his 335. He just ditched the RFTs and switched to non RFTs.

Service manager looked at the tires and was surprised at the amount of tread left. He is going to try to get BMW to do something about replacing the tires, but he said I would probably have to end up taking it to BMW myself as they are more inclined to listen to a customer.

I share your resentment towards BMW re their obvious awareness of the tire problems, but also their obvious reluctance to do anything about it. Though I really like the 3 series car (this is my 2nd) I do not beleive I'll buy another becuase of the tire problems. Who wants to pay so many $$$ then have to go to Kragen or Pep Boys and buy a tire mobility kit because one is forced to switch to non RFTs?

When is BMW going to realize they are losing customers?

SocratesBMW
04-19-2008, 11:35 PM
Thankfully I bought my car from the #1 service center in the country. My point is that its not BMW, its the dealership you work with. I refused to ever buy a BMW again 5 years ago, but then the horrible dealer in my town went under due to service. Thankfully someone who understood what service was bought the dealershio, now they are incredible.

M Wringer
04-20-2008, 12:05 AM
This is an ongoing problem with runflat tires, particularly with Tombstone, er Bridgestone Tires. We have a problem with getting them and have to sub Contis on some of the used cars at our dealership. I ordered a 328i coupe for a lease. The first thing I am going to do is order a set of Yokohamas like I have on my M3, put the run-flats in tire totes and call it good. The spare in the M3 has never seen the ground in three years, the chances for a flat are not all that great, so a mobility kit is cheap insurance. BMW's explanation is: "the three and five series are performance cars and one should expect to wear out tires faster" I call bs. Next excuse!

06330i06
04-20-2008, 12:28 AM
I know this is getting to the point where is should be in the tire forum, but you seem to have some knowledge about tires on 3 series. Would you mind recommending a brand and model to replace the Potenzas on my 330i? I like the way mine handle, and they weren't noisy at 1st, but now I can't stand the noise.
BTW- I should get about 25k on them. I'd be satisfied with that if weren't for the noise.

Thanks

shifterkart33
04-20-2008, 10:11 AM
Sounds like a change of dealer is in order.

I agree with you on the tires and cup holders. I wish my tires would wear out so I'd have an excuss for go-flat tires.

I don't mind the dipstick though. I hardly ever check the oil in my truck, I just wait for it to tell me I'm low and add some oil. I'm sure the BMW would do the same thing if I run low.

E92!Dreier
04-20-2008, 11:21 AM
Guess what boys, the pads were squealing liek stuck pigs last night....I left BMW of Ridgefield a message, and I am going to bring my car in for service on thursday to a different dealer. I am investigating the possibility of non-OEM , non-RFT tires as replacements -- But I have also been told that BMW will refuse toc over towing costs for customers who go this route, and then are stranded on the side of the road.

SocratesBMW
04-20-2008, 05:15 PM
Guess what boys, the pads were squealing liek stuck pigs last night....I left BMW of Ridgefield a message, and I am going to bring my car in for service on thursday to a different dealer. I am investigating the possibility of non-OEM , non-RFT tires as replacements -- But I have also been told that BMW will refuse toc over towing costs for customers who go this route, and then are stranded on the side of the road.

Makes sense. Why should they have to cover something that they didn't provide.

E92!Dreier
04-20-2008, 06:00 PM
Makes sense. Why should they have to cover something that they didn't provide.

They don't have to cover it, but they might want to if they ever want me to buy another BMW. They aren't covering the replacement of outrageously loud braking pads either. In addition -- if they had some forethought and/or listened to their customers, they would scrap this run-flat debacle before they lose market share. My next car will def. not have runflats, and it will likely not be a new M ( I can't afford it). But, I like new cars, and maybe I should go boxster or 350z. It is sad that this is my third BMW, and the same nightmarish service is driving me away from my favorite marque. Ultimate Service is a gimick, and a lie. Ridgefield BMW is a joke. Hopefully, BMW of Mt. Kisco is interested in repairing my car adequately. If not, perhaps I'll take the penalty on the early lease turn in, and get this thing out of my driveway before something expensive breaks, and BMW decides it is broken ahead of schedule.

Good thing you go to the number 1 service department! youmust not have to deal with things like this. I, like most other consumers, have to deal with the typical BMW service department -- a bunch of arrogant, ill-informed MFers with no respect for their customers. For the price of a set of brake pads, my service department has driven me to sever my relationship with their entire business. Ultimate Service? Refusing to tow cars (not just to pay, but to even tow) with non run flats because they are not OEM...certainly not Ultimate Service. More like unbelievably high-handed rude service -- if the run flat tires weren't such Ps ITA, then people wouldn't be paying money into the aftermarket to get them the hell off their cars. THe idea that BMW relishes the opportunity to leave repeat customers out in the cold is appalling. Ridgefield BMW - Joke.

SocratesBMW
04-20-2008, 06:56 PM
Yeah I understand the dealer issue. You need to find another if possible. Bad service was the main reason I stopped buying BMW a while back and swore to never buy from that dealer. Apparently it got pretty bad becasue they sold the dealership to someone else and turned it all around. So I am again, buying BMWs. Good luck to you, I know it can be frustrating.

aus
04-20-2008, 06:59 PM
Your problem is withe DEALER, and in particular a DUMBASS SA who doesn't know shit about his job. Don't generalize a brand based on one jackass.

Mad Dragon
04-20-2008, 07:27 PM
Brake noise is not covered by warranty. The only bulletin regarding sensors contacting rotors applies to E60/61/63/64.

3mm is the minimum brake pad thickness, and the sensor will contact the rotor long before that. Unless a caliper is sticking, the pads should not be replaced before the CBS due date or the sensor wears below the minimum thickness.

As far as tires are concerned, Potenzas are not covered by any bulletins. Neither are E92 tires; SI B36 06 06 only applies to E90s and E91s with Turanzas.

E92!Dreier
04-20-2008, 07:29 PM
Brake noise is not covered by warranty. The only bulletin regarding sensors contacting rotors applies to E60/61/63/64.

3mm is the minimum brake pad thickness, and the sensor will contact the rotor long before that. Unless a caliper is sticking, the pads should not be replaced before the CBS due date or the sensor wears below the minimum thickness.

As far as tires are concerned, Potenzas are not covered by any bulletins. Neither are E92 tires; SI B36 06 06 only applies to E90s and E91s with Turanzas.

Thank you for relating the obvious. Now what is the solution? Replace tires every 16,000 miles or less, and drive a car that sounds like a broken down school bus everytime you hit the brakes?

Mad Dragon
04-20-2008, 07:35 PM
Potenzas are performance tires. My GTI came with them, and they get noisy after a while. 30,000 miles is probably the most anyone will get out of a set; the rears will probably wear long before that.


Be thankful you don't drive an M5. 16,000 miles, and you'd be on your 3rd set of tires. ;)

E92!Dreier
04-20-2008, 07:36 PM
Yeah I understand the dealer issue. You need to find another if possible. Bad service was the main reason I stopped buying BMW a while back and swore to never buy from that dealer. Apparently it got pretty bad becasue they sold the dealership to someone else and turned it all around. So I am again, buying BMWs. Good luck to you, I know it can be frustrating.

Thanks, your opinion (although sometimes opposite my own) has been wel linformed and thoughtful. I have already been down the road once with this dealer, now I am going to try and test another. If I am still not happy, whatever, it is why I leased this thing. BMW service seems to be very different from dealer to dealer -- that is a disservice to the corporation. There are seemingly endless numbers of posts on this forum and others regarding squealing brakes (front and/or rear), multiple trips to service for this problem; glazed rotors, resurfaced pads, premature sensor failure, complete brake replacement, lettters to BMW NA, etc.

And then there are the RF tires...another stream of endless posts indicating varying levels of performance, satisfaction, and durability. Now I think that I will go and wash my car and forget that when I drive to work tomorrow it will sound like a hunk of junk, and that I will be spending some more of my $$$ on service that was advertised as Ultimate, but turns out to be somewhat dubious at best.

E92!Dreier
04-20-2008, 07:40 PM
Potenzas are performance tires. My GTI came with them, and they get noisy after a while. 30,000 miles is probably the most anyone will get out of a set; the rears will probably wear long before that.


Be thankful you don't drive an M5. 16,000 miles, and you'd be on your 3rd set of tires. ;)

People who can afford an M5 can probably afford that - I can't. If it was fue to wear that would be one thing, but the tires are cupped and degrading at the edges. I have gone through tires in 12,000 miles before, even once through a set of Pirellis in about 6,000. But that was driving on the track. I don't expect to have my tires turn to junk in less than 20,000 miles without severe beatings being the norm. The added cost of runflats, combined with much more rapid and uneven wear, make me consider these tires rubbish.

kundol
05-20-2008, 12:10 PM
still, nothing beats the power of a limo, when talking about cars, it is the king of all cars. why don't try these Los Angeles Limousine service (http://www.zzlimousine.com) to experience the ride? hmm...:eek: