E92!Dreier
04-19-2008, 11:55 AM
Yesterday I had my car in for service at Ridgefield (CT) BMW -- the dealership where I bought my car. Basically I was seeking an oil change under coverage, a brake pad change under coverage, and inspection of my tires for severe road noise and signs of cupping. I authorized $100.00 worth of work beyond my Ultimate Service's coverage, thinking that even if the brake pads were a bit ahead of schedule , my SA would meet me half way on the labor, or the parts, or just help me out. Further, if I needed to replace the tires, I would do it at a later date -- I just needed to know where I stood, and document the degredation of the rubber.
I dropped the car off the night before my appointment, and at 8:30 AM yesterday, my SA calls me up. He says that the car is all done, and that they couldn't find anything wrong with my brake pads. I had already spoken to him on the phone twice describing the problem when I made the appointment. Everytime you step on the brake pedal, the pads squeal, even at very low speeds -- I explained this. I also explained that it seemed (to me, a lowly gas pumper/oilchanger/college student/young buck) that the sensor wire was making contact with the rotor, indicating pad wear. This is the second time I have had my car in for brake service (that I should have just done myself) in its first 17,000 miles. The last time they reset the system and changed the sensors, without changing the pads.
My SA explains to me that there is no sensor wire with my pads (wrong) and that there are no signs of pad wear. He says they are all within tolerances. I explain that brakes are a vital system, they are making unbelievably embarassing and troubling squealing noises every time I use them at any speed. I ask for a quote to replace the pads off warranty if my not-so Ultimate Service doesn't cover them yet. He says that they won't even do that because there is no need to. Then before I could even catch my breath he says, "there is also the issues of tires. They are going to need to be replaced because you drive too aggressively and Bridgestone makes these tires to wear very quickly." I counter with my knowledge of premature shouldering on RFT's, the BMW TSB against Turanza tires ( I have potenzas), etc etc, at which point he interupts me and says, "there is no tire coverage, do you want an estimate?" to which I say, "Actually, button up the car, I will be down to discuss this with you and your manager and my salesman who made explicit promises that this sort of nickel and diming would not occur on the Ultimate Service plan, and you won't have to worry about replacing brake pads ever again. -- we should make sure no customers are around so no one knows how upset you have made me. "
I called a different dealership in the area, who offered me an immediate inspection of the brakes and tires, as well as a loaner car if I wanted to drop the car of with them. They also laughed when I recounted my story and said, "we get a call like this once a week!" Great.
First, I called Bridgestone North America. I was informed by their technical advisor, Eric : "These tires are designed by Bridgestone to be rotated every 6,000 miles to avoid uneven tread wear. BMW insists on a staggered setup which does not allow for rotation, and nullifies our engineering." He went on to say that he has heard similar complaints from other BMW owners (as well as owners of other high performance cars with staggered setups and negatvie rear toe especially), who were also being told by BMW (or another dealer) to just shut up and pay, and that he would never buy a new BMW or a 350Z for exactly this reason. The price for a RFT vs. a non RFT aslo made him hesitant to buy any new BMW, except of course the M.
Basically he explained that BMW was lying to me on the telephone -- my driving style and Bridgestone's tire had nothing to due with the premature tread wear or cupping. Rather, it was the lack of rotation, stiffness of the sidewalls, and the geometry of the suspension that were primarily causing uneven wear. He also offered to contact the regional rep from BMW and Bridgestone concerning my complaints. Incredible competence and customer service from Bridgestone. He wanted to know if there was anything he could do to help me remain a Bridgestone customer, and he assured me that if there was something more he could do, he would call me. Also, he suggested writing a letter to BMW NA and Bridgestone, to see if I could get a few dollars out of each of them.
I then bit the bullet. First I called my salesman. He said that he had heard the Service Manager screaming that, "it's jsut brake pads, get it f*cking done!" My salesman said, "it will be taken care of, you have my word." It had been about an hour since I had hung up on my SA. I called back to the dealer and started anew with someone else. She was very pleasant and accomodating, and she was able to get the technician to inspect the brakes further, apparently a major undertaking -- she said she would call back with any new info. OK. An hour later she calls up to tell me that, "We found a bulletin for these pads, and the sensor wire needs to be trimmed (previous SA said there is no sensor wire), and the pads resurfaced. It is being done right now for free." I said "great, as long as they don't squeal." But I also said, "it is very troubling that my car was in for service on the brake pads twice, and that this bulletin is only discovered now, and I have been previously told that there is no sensor wire. I still would rathe rhave new pads. Thank you for what you managed to do."
I went to pick up the car. Service department (at 1 O'clock) is a ghost town. Only a cashier is there. I inquire as to the availability of a Service Advisor. A gentleman overhears me and says, "what can I do for you?.. oh and you have a Giants hat on, I like you already" I exlplain my concerns about the brake debacle, and submit laughingly that I was worried I might be in Patriots territory and that that was the underlying reason for my bad experience. He then said, "oh you're the guy from the phone. Let's get this resolved."
I then also explain my concerns about the tires...He brings me out to my car, and we inspect the tires together. He says, "If they look like this before 20,000 miles (i am at 16,929) I should be able to get Bridgestone to cover the expense of two of them. I said, Holy Sh*t, where were you three hours ago?" He said "don't worry, I can def. do something for you" and I said "I'd rather pay for none, than 2, but I would rather pay for 2 than 4." He laughed and said, " I can almost guarantee two. We'll see about all 4 -- maybe we'll try you running a different tire."
I know that long rant was tough to read, and I think I could have handled some parts of my ordeal better. I need to turn this car back in at the end of the lease with its OEM RFT's. I wish I was willing to ride around with a space saver spare and a jack and compressor and such in my trunk, but I think that is counter productive in terms of performance, comfort and style.
My car is an Ultimate Driving Machine. It outclasses everything else I ride in on a regular basis...my friends own a collection of very nice vehicles: Altimas, GTIs, Subarus, A new Civic SI, SUV's, blah blah blah. They all are captivated by my car's looks, and 18 months into my ownership I am still in love with the car's handling, precision, looks and pedigree. I feel the evolution from my old E36 to my new E92 in the steering wheel everytime I power through a twist in the road.
However, my experience with BMW's Ultimate Service and BMW of Ridgefield's Service Department has left me pondering my future with BMW. There are other cars out there that I have closed my eyes to in the past because I had been blinded by the light from Munich. Now I think that Ultimate Service is just a way for BMW to justify exhorbitant pricing, and it also has become a means for dealerships to try and rip off their customers. The fact that an SA has told me outright lies has not helped. I have cancelled my appointment with the other dealer, and I am researching tires. No one was killed, I paid 0 dollars. However, I was treated poorly by my home dealership, and I am in quandry as to where to go from here -- The end of my lease is coming fast (halfway there). Sure I want an M. but I am tempted to just buy a used junker and work on it in my driveway, rather than trust my purse strings and peace of mind to a car company that has adopted so many things that seem to irk it's customers.
I want: A dipstick, regular tires that last more than 25,000 miles, the elimination of flimsy protrusions in the interior cabin (ie afterthought cupholders and fragile seatbelt presenters), and the end of lies about the Ultimate Service program -- it has proven to not be so ultimate. Please relate your experiences, advice, admonitions, etc.
Thank you, Happy motoring.
I dropped the car off the night before my appointment, and at 8:30 AM yesterday, my SA calls me up. He says that the car is all done, and that they couldn't find anything wrong with my brake pads. I had already spoken to him on the phone twice describing the problem when I made the appointment. Everytime you step on the brake pedal, the pads squeal, even at very low speeds -- I explained this. I also explained that it seemed (to me, a lowly gas pumper/oilchanger/college student/young buck) that the sensor wire was making contact with the rotor, indicating pad wear. This is the second time I have had my car in for brake service (that I should have just done myself) in its first 17,000 miles. The last time they reset the system and changed the sensors, without changing the pads.
My SA explains to me that there is no sensor wire with my pads (wrong) and that there are no signs of pad wear. He says they are all within tolerances. I explain that brakes are a vital system, they are making unbelievably embarassing and troubling squealing noises every time I use them at any speed. I ask for a quote to replace the pads off warranty if my not-so Ultimate Service doesn't cover them yet. He says that they won't even do that because there is no need to. Then before I could even catch my breath he says, "there is also the issues of tires. They are going to need to be replaced because you drive too aggressively and Bridgestone makes these tires to wear very quickly." I counter with my knowledge of premature shouldering on RFT's, the BMW TSB against Turanza tires ( I have potenzas), etc etc, at which point he interupts me and says, "there is no tire coverage, do you want an estimate?" to which I say, "Actually, button up the car, I will be down to discuss this with you and your manager and my salesman who made explicit promises that this sort of nickel and diming would not occur on the Ultimate Service plan, and you won't have to worry about replacing brake pads ever again. -- we should make sure no customers are around so no one knows how upset you have made me. "
I called a different dealership in the area, who offered me an immediate inspection of the brakes and tires, as well as a loaner car if I wanted to drop the car of with them. They also laughed when I recounted my story and said, "we get a call like this once a week!" Great.
First, I called Bridgestone North America. I was informed by their technical advisor, Eric : "These tires are designed by Bridgestone to be rotated every 6,000 miles to avoid uneven tread wear. BMW insists on a staggered setup which does not allow for rotation, and nullifies our engineering." He went on to say that he has heard similar complaints from other BMW owners (as well as owners of other high performance cars with staggered setups and negatvie rear toe especially), who were also being told by BMW (or another dealer) to just shut up and pay, and that he would never buy a new BMW or a 350Z for exactly this reason. The price for a RFT vs. a non RFT aslo made him hesitant to buy any new BMW, except of course the M.
Basically he explained that BMW was lying to me on the telephone -- my driving style and Bridgestone's tire had nothing to due with the premature tread wear or cupping. Rather, it was the lack of rotation, stiffness of the sidewalls, and the geometry of the suspension that were primarily causing uneven wear. He also offered to contact the regional rep from BMW and Bridgestone concerning my complaints. Incredible competence and customer service from Bridgestone. He wanted to know if there was anything he could do to help me remain a Bridgestone customer, and he assured me that if there was something more he could do, he would call me. Also, he suggested writing a letter to BMW NA and Bridgestone, to see if I could get a few dollars out of each of them.
I then bit the bullet. First I called my salesman. He said that he had heard the Service Manager screaming that, "it's jsut brake pads, get it f*cking done!" My salesman said, "it will be taken care of, you have my word." It had been about an hour since I had hung up on my SA. I called back to the dealer and started anew with someone else. She was very pleasant and accomodating, and she was able to get the technician to inspect the brakes further, apparently a major undertaking -- she said she would call back with any new info. OK. An hour later she calls up to tell me that, "We found a bulletin for these pads, and the sensor wire needs to be trimmed (previous SA said there is no sensor wire), and the pads resurfaced. It is being done right now for free." I said "great, as long as they don't squeal." But I also said, "it is very troubling that my car was in for service on the brake pads twice, and that this bulletin is only discovered now, and I have been previously told that there is no sensor wire. I still would rathe rhave new pads. Thank you for what you managed to do."
I went to pick up the car. Service department (at 1 O'clock) is a ghost town. Only a cashier is there. I inquire as to the availability of a Service Advisor. A gentleman overhears me and says, "what can I do for you?.. oh and you have a Giants hat on, I like you already" I exlplain my concerns about the brake debacle, and submit laughingly that I was worried I might be in Patriots territory and that that was the underlying reason for my bad experience. He then said, "oh you're the guy from the phone. Let's get this resolved."
I then also explain my concerns about the tires...He brings me out to my car, and we inspect the tires together. He says, "If they look like this before 20,000 miles (i am at 16,929) I should be able to get Bridgestone to cover the expense of two of them. I said, Holy Sh*t, where were you three hours ago?" He said "don't worry, I can def. do something for you" and I said "I'd rather pay for none, than 2, but I would rather pay for 2 than 4." He laughed and said, " I can almost guarantee two. We'll see about all 4 -- maybe we'll try you running a different tire."
I know that long rant was tough to read, and I think I could have handled some parts of my ordeal better. I need to turn this car back in at the end of the lease with its OEM RFT's. I wish I was willing to ride around with a space saver spare and a jack and compressor and such in my trunk, but I think that is counter productive in terms of performance, comfort and style.
My car is an Ultimate Driving Machine. It outclasses everything else I ride in on a regular basis...my friends own a collection of very nice vehicles: Altimas, GTIs, Subarus, A new Civic SI, SUV's, blah blah blah. They all are captivated by my car's looks, and 18 months into my ownership I am still in love with the car's handling, precision, looks and pedigree. I feel the evolution from my old E36 to my new E92 in the steering wheel everytime I power through a twist in the road.
However, my experience with BMW's Ultimate Service and BMW of Ridgefield's Service Department has left me pondering my future with BMW. There are other cars out there that I have closed my eyes to in the past because I had been blinded by the light from Munich. Now I think that Ultimate Service is just a way for BMW to justify exhorbitant pricing, and it also has become a means for dealerships to try and rip off their customers. The fact that an SA has told me outright lies has not helped. I have cancelled my appointment with the other dealer, and I am researching tires. No one was killed, I paid 0 dollars. However, I was treated poorly by my home dealership, and I am in quandry as to where to go from here -- The end of my lease is coming fast (halfway there). Sure I want an M. but I am tempted to just buy a used junker and work on it in my driveway, rather than trust my purse strings and peace of mind to a car company that has adopted so many things that seem to irk it's customers.
I want: A dipstick, regular tires that last more than 25,000 miles, the elimination of flimsy protrusions in the interior cabin (ie afterthought cupholders and fragile seatbelt presenters), and the end of lies about the Ultimate Service program -- it has proven to not be so ultimate. Please relate your experiences, advice, admonitions, etc.
Thank you, Happy motoring.