Installing RTAB, subframe bushings and outer ball joints on the M3 this weekend if anyone would like to stop by drop hints or just to see if I break anything.

I'll have beverages.

I can email or PM my address.

Does anyone have any experience with the new design RTAB?
Instead of a rubber filled cylinder the ones I received look like:
(>o<)

(>o<)
??

??
Instead of a continuous metal sleeve the sleeve is sliced in 1/2 so the ( ) is the sleeve.
the >< is the rubber surrounding the center bushing.
Of course I didn't think to take pix of them. :(

Here's my magical drawing skill:236743
Here's a photo: 236820

clueless... sorry.

Installing RTAB, subframe bushings and outer ball joints on the M3 this weekend if anyone would like to stop by drop hints or just to see if I break anything.

I'll have beverages.

I can email or PM my address.

Dang, I'm in KC this weekend, but we did them about 5 years ago as part of a tech session...I wish Indi was still active here because he'd remember exactly what to do.

It really wasn't that hard, jack car up, use air tools.

Rinse and repeat.

Of course, there were about 5 e36ers there and it took no time at all.

when i did mine i used a large hose clamp to clamp the bushing together, oil the heck out of it and pounded it in place. otherwise you can always get the proper tools. Also i had to grind away some of the metal in the trailing arm to get the bushing in.. you will also have fun getting the old one out. I sugest getting a drill and drill some of the bushing in the rubber and then a saw zaw to cut the metal band some and then u can push it out..

have fun

when i did mine i used a large hose clamp to clamp the bushing together,

have fun
genius! That thought occurred to me but then I quickly dismissed it as too easy.
I have (I hope) the club's proper tool. None of the pieces seem to be exactly what I need but some look close enough.

It really wasn't that hard, jack car up, use air tools.

Rinse and repeat.
No air tools FTL. I have a couple breaker bars and a cheap electric impact though.

IIRC the club has the tools... use them!

IIRC the club has the tools... use them!
I already gots'em:alright

none of them are exactly correct for the new bushing design though they should work.

you talking about the RTAB or subframe bushings?

RTAB's is what he is talking about

Speaking of sub frame i should look into changing mine soon..dont want to end up like James.. :D

RTAB's is what he is talking about

Speaking of sub frame i should look into changing mine soon..dont want to end up like James.. :D
Yes.
I'm doing the subframes too, hopefully. As soon as they get here I'll see if the tool set will work for them too.

You should've ordered them from you when I did. :stickoutt

OK.... IIRC the club has the subframe tool, but not the RTAB tool... we rented the RTAB tool...

OK.... IIRC the club has the subframe tool, but not the RTAB tool... we rented the RTAB tool...
from whom?

no clue... indi or bruce did the actual renting...

Yes.
I'm doing the subframes too, hopefully. As soon as they get here I'll see if the tool set will work for them too.

You should've ordered them from you when I did. :stickoutt

one would think. but i am bad about getting my stuff when i need it..i need to get better at maintaining this car so i dont destroy it from auto-x or track.

i need to fix my exhaust vibration pronto. it sounds like car is going to fall apart on hard or even soft right turns..

btw... strut hats = EPIC improvement... vielen dank

This is easy stuff, the PITA part is trying to do it with the assembly still in the car.

We don't need to stinkin' special tools!

Here's the puller/presser I made.

This is easy stuff, the PITA part is trying to do it with the assembly still in the car.

We don't need to stinkin' special tools!

Here's the puller/presser I made.
That is mighty.
Is that "washer" a roller blade wheel?

No, it's a metal washer. :)

I will bring it with and see how it works, maybe donate it to the club if it works on the e36 too. :rofl

No, it's a metal washer. :)

I will bring it with and see how it works, maybe donate it to the club if it works on the e36 too. :rofl
I see it now, crazy eyeballs of mine.
The RTAB I'm not so worried about, it's the subrame bushings that I'm sceered won't come out.

Drop the subframe and we can use my press to do them, piece of cake!

Drop the subframe and we can use my press to do them, piece of cake!
GDR.
btw, I added a photo of the bushing above, post #4

Koala Motorsport used to rent out the RTAB removal/install tool for $80. Probably where Indi got it from. You were able to keep it for a few days. I understand that Koala stopped renting out tools as they kept coming back all broken up. But the tool kit can be bought for $400-500, something club ought to look at adding. I used it on my E36 M3 years ago and it worked like a champ although it did take a lot of force on a long wrench to get the bushing to break free. So much so, I say good luck with the Home Depot bolt method.

Oh, and grinding a trailing arm to get a bushing to fit? That doesn't seem like a good idea but neither do 80% of the "techniques" that I find on the 'net.

Couple of other unsolicited random M3 RTAB pointers. Something that the tool kit includes is a long lever that attaches to the console that is supposed to be lined up with a certain point on the hub while tightening the console bolt to the trailing arm. This is to make sure the bushing has the proper preload when the car is lower back on the ground. If not done properly you will end up with premature bushing failure. You can fab an arm out of a strip of steel or aluminum. I am sure that you can find the info for this somewhere. Another thing, before you drop the console from the vehicle, mark its location with a marker or something so that when you reinstall your alignment will be close to where it was. Technichally you should get an alignment after doing RTABs as the 3 holes on the console are slotted to allow for rear toe adjustment.

I wish I was there to help as I already have the t-shirt from my M3 RTAB and control arm bushing experience.

Bolts are pretty strong under tension. :)

Thanks for the tips!

Couple of other unsolicited random M3 RTAB pointers. Something that the tool kit includes is a long lever that attaches to the console...This is to make sure the bushing has the proper preload when the car is lower back on the ground. If not done properly you will end up with premature bushing failure.

I wish I was there to help as I already have the t-shirt from my M3 RTAB and control arm bushing experience.
The Bentley does show a spec for reinstalling but without seeing the assy in front of me I couldn't quite grasp what was being aligned with what. I'll do some digging.

I wonder if I could talk Jeff into buying the tool before Saturday. hhmmmm

Koala Motorsport used to rent out the RTAB removal/install tool for $80. Probably where Indi got it from. You were able to keep it for a few days. I understand that Koala stopped renting out tools as they kept coming back all broken up. But the tool kit can be bought for $400-500, something club ought to look at adding. I used it on my E36 M3 years ago and it worked like a champ although it did take a lot of force on a long wrench to get the bushing to break free. So much so, I say good luck with the Home Depot bolt method.

Oh, and grinding a trailing arm to get a bushing to fit? That doesn't seem like a good idea but neither do 80% of the "techniques" that I find on the 'net.

the grinding part is very minimal. U just take a hair off to make it go in easier. You are bascially cleaning any garbage that might be in there from the old bushing that was left behind..It is not going to impact anything..IMO


Also there are only two bolts that are used for allignment and the third is basically there to help hold the plate in place.

John,

Russ has a nice press, so if you need it, could talk with him prior to Sat. and pre-arrange to stop by.

just a thought.

John,

Russ has a nice press, so if you need it, could talk with him prior to Sat. and pre-arrange to stop by.

just a thought.
Good idea. he also has a machine shop. :devillook

between Chris and Russ I'm fairly certain we're golden.

The Bentley does show a spec for reinstalling but without seeing the assy in front of me I couldn't quite grasp what was being aligned with what. I'll do some digging.

I wonder if I could talk Jeff into buying the tool before Saturday. hhmmmm

Take a look at this thread. Scroll down about 2/3 of the way to find the posts by Rog Racer. He has some good pics of the removal, install, and alignment tools in use.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53375&perpage=25&highlight=rtab%20tool&pagenumber=2

Also there are only two bolts that are used for allignment and the third is basically there to help hold the plate in place.

Maybe non M E36's are different but there are 3 bolts that hold the bushing console to the body that need to be loosened to align the rear toe on an M3.

Sounds like fun, but i will be at an EMS Conference then.:(

Maybe non M E36's are different but there are 3 bolts that hold the bushing console to the body that need to be loosened to align the rear toe on an M3.

should be the same. u need to loosen the 3rd one to move the bracket around. (All the 3rd one does is help keep it the bracket there.)

As someone mentioned before, Indi or Bruce got them from Koala. I borrowed one from a forum member who bought the tool from Victory Product Design for $100 which worked well. VPD is no longer in business as I recall. I did the install last year and it went well. I bought the carrier alignment tool from VPD. The Bentley describes the alignment process, but this tool takes the thinking out of it and ensures it is properly aligned. If it is not aligned properly, you will be doing this again in 15K. You can borrow it if you want. I am going to the spring game, otherwise I would stop by to lend a hand. Let me know

I hope this is not one of those long 'server killer' threads but...
We didn't really get anything done today except, and most importantly, the RTAB. Oh, and learned that both of my rear springs are broken. ??
We had the rear sub-frame out and the tool ready to go when it became apparent that we'd have to pull the differential too.
One RTAB came out/went in just as it was supposed to... the other one decided to be a difficult bitch.

Anyone have a set of rear E36 M3 springs that they want to get rid of?

Sounds interesting....

Sorry I couldn't make it, dad decided to host a brick tuck pointing and window flashing replacement session today, what fun....

Anyone have a set of rear E36 M3 springs that they want to get rid of?

I think I can get you a set for $20... you game? (they are from a sedan but should be close.

I think I can get you a set for $20... you game? (they are from a sedan but should be close.
are they different?

I have myself partially talked into H&R OE Sports.

edit - after reading more, I'm back to looking for stockers.

edit II - Sweet Mother Mary! The difference driving to work this morning was amazing! The whole car seems more solid and the grooved section of I-680 between Maple and Dodge used to make the car's rear end shift almost violently. This morning I could still feel some shifting but it did not alter the car's tracking.
I'm also going to guess that removing 2lbs of broken spring parts cut down on some subtle noise too.

you need to get pics of those broken springs... that just doesn't make sense.

glad to hear the RTAB helped.

AB.. missed you there, and then on Sunday at my place. Hope all is ok.

Jon

the springs will be close.. if anything they might be a LITTLE higher-rate due to the OE staggered tires and assumption of more back-seat load...

either way, let me know and I'll get the deal lined up.

you need to get pics of those broken springs... that just doesn't make sense.

glad to hear the RTAB helped.

AB.. missed you there, and then on Sunday at my place. Hope all is ok.

Jon

+1 on pics

The joys of owning your own business, when shit breaks you get to drop all your plans and fix it! :rolleyes