I know I have posted some pics before (Ofest last year), but I finally got the paint finished and waxed last weekend. Figured I'd show what the car was when I got it (not the best before pics but it is all I got) and now.

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before%201.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before2.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before3.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before4.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before5.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after1.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after2.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after3.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after4.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after5.jpg

I know I have posted some pics before (Ofest last year), but I finally got the paint finished and waxed last weekend. Figured I'd show what the car was when I got it (not the best before pics but it is all I got) and now.

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before%201.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before2.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before3.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before4.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/before5.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after1.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after2.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after3.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after4.jpg

http://heersink.org/bruce/M3/project/after5.jpg

Great looking car....especially like the quarters! :D:D:D

Bruce,
glad to see some photos up. it looks great. interior shots? motor shots? just curious....what's your front splitter made of? i had an ABS plastic splitter but it was too flexible so I'm switching to Dibond....about 4mm thick

Bruce,
glad to see some photos up. it looks great. interior shots? motor shots? just curious....what's your front splitter made of? i had an ABS plastic splitter but it was too flexible so I'm switching to Dibond....about 4mm thick

I do have some interior shots, but the outside looks SOOOO much better. :-) I think next year's project is to redo the interior and wiring. Motor is nothing special and kinda dirty...again the outside pics look better. I am going to try to take to the MSR (if I can get my wife to drive her car as she is signed up for the DE).

Splitter is aluminum. Got it from Mario Langsten at VSR in NH (not sure if he sells them as I traded him a dash for it). I had to add the turnbuckles after being at ECR last month where the splitter was coming apart from the bumper....hopefully this will fix it.

Very nice Bruce! What size tires/wheels are you running?

Those at 275/35 18 Nittos. I would like to try some 280/640 or 645 slicks(hard to find that size). Dunno how Aard fits 305s.... *shrug*

Those at 275/35 18 Nittos. I would like to try some 280/640 or 645 slicks(hard to find that size). Dunno how Aard fits 305s.... *shrug*

Pirelli 305/640s are short enough to help if you are willing to get serious and be creative enough with wheels and spacers!;)

Pirelli 305/640s are short enough to help if you are willing to get serious and be creative enough with wheels and spacers!;)

Define "creative". I am using 18x10 ET25s with 20mm of spacers.

We can talk more at MSR....if you are really coming. I have to get a tour of that rig....

Beautiful!!

I think I would like to build a semi tube frame, double wishbone suspensioned E30M3 with HUGE fenders at some point in my career. Put a nice little M42 Turbo in it and go race!! Would be sooo much fun (I think).

Those are the exact same wheels I was using too lol .... they're beautiful aren't they? Light too...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/vdshenoy/Autocross%20110407/SCCAaxNOV07035.jpg

Then I switched to the Enkei NT03-M...much more race-like wheel and marginally lighter too.

http://www.photographictendencies.com/autox/images/TRE_0232.jpg

Jack M tells me I should go back to 17s to reduce unsprung weight.

Cool paint scheme, looks great.

Jack M tells me I should go back to 17s to reduce unsprung weight.

From track record setting experience.... Stick with the 18's if you want to go fast! ;););)

Not going to be able to make MSR. :( Maybe see you at TWS? :)

From track record setting experience.... Stick with the 18's if you want to go fast! ;););)

Not going to be able to make MSR. :( Maybe see you at TWS? :)

I saw you were off the list at MSR. I am scheduled to work TWS.

From track record setting experience.... Stick with the 18's if you want to go fast! ;););)


what difference does wheel diameter make when it comes to setting track records?

Bruce,
my 18x9 SSR comps with 250/650 yokohama slicks weigh the same as my 17x9 D-force wheels with 245/40 Hoosier DOT tires. just food for thought

what difference does wheel diameter make when it comes to setting track records?


Akard likes to run 305s...are there a 305s in 17?

what difference does wheel diameter make when it comes to setting track records?

Bruce,
my 18x9 SSR comps with 250/650 yokohama slicks weigh the same as my 17x9 D-force wheels with 245/40 Hoosier DOT tires. just food for thought

Maybe not very much for lap records since it only takes a single hot lap to accomplish setting the record and the biggest advantages of the larger wheels don't show-up for a few laps. The fast laps weren't really the main point...instead: If I were to consider taking advice on my own race car build...I'd most likely prefer listening to someone who's accomplished something above average (like a track record fast lap) with their own similarly classed race car than listening to the "experts" on the internet that have yet to put down a fast lap on any size tires in a similarly classed race car. Plus, like Bruce says, I like to run 305's! ;););)

So what does Rigoli run?

:D
-Carlos.

I'm not certain, but I don't believe he was running the 18's when he was touring the east a few years back racing his S14 powered car in DM. I believe he still holds the track record for DM at Putnam although a few of his other DM records have been replaced since then by at least one car that does have 18s on it. I have not seen any results that showed Mario setting track records in CM while driving his e30 chassis. Didn't hear anything about him giving Bruce advice to stick with smaller wheels in CM either. Have you seen it somewhere that I might have missed? :confused

I'm not certain, but I don't believe he was running the 18's when he was touring the east a few years back racing his S14 powered car in DM. I believe he still holds the track record for DM at Putnam although a few of his other DM records have been replaced since then by at least one car that does have 18s on it. I have not seen any results that showed Mario setting track records in CM while driving his e30 chassis. Didn't hear anything about him giving Bruce advice to stick with smaller wheels in CM either. Have you seen it somewhere that I might have missed? :confused

It was only a silly joke. I think Boekdrukker runs 18s also and he's probably the fastest E30 in DM at the moment. But that's just my opinion judging by his speed at Mosport and I think the Glen, no data to back that up. I think he got pole his first time there but him and Andy came together and it ended both their races. It would be great if all you guys ran against each other at O'fest this year. I think he was trying to sell his car though, oh well.

Cheers,
Carlos.

It was only a silly joke. I think Boekdrukker runs 18s also and he's probably the fastest E30 in DM at the moment. But that's just my opinion judging by his speed at Mosport and I think the Glen, no data to back that up. I think he got pole his first time there but him and Andy came together and it ended both their races. It would be great if all you guys ran against each other at O'fest this year. I think he was trying to sell his car though, oh well.

Cheers,
Carlos.

I think I ran against that car the last time I was at Mid-Ohio running in CM. Incredibly fast machine! Everyone racing together at O'fest would be a blast. Hopefully, he'll have that monster machine at The Glen along with so many others for a best-of-the-best race like we had at the inaugural North American Challenge event at TWS. I'd hate to cheer against anyone wanting to sell his/her car, but maybe it'll still be around long enough to make the big event this year. ;)

Bruce,

The car really looks impressive. You deserve to be proud of yourself. You put an unbelievable amount of hard work into getting that beast running.

Jack M tells me I should go back to 17s to reduce unsprung weight.

Hey Bruce,

If I recall our conversation (at O'Fest right?) it wasn't so much about unsprung weight - Joe makes a good point with his 17 vs 18 weight comparison - but rather rotating intertia. Even if the weight is the same it's further out and thus it takes more energy to overcome that, both accelerating and decelerating. And of course I was taking into account some of the other attributes of your car that might also be a consideration, based on what you'd told me.

Also, I dunno that I was necessarily trying to sell you on the idea so much as we were discussing options. I'm definitely starting with smaller wheels/tires but then I'm running significantly less power than you are. It doesn't help me go through the corner faster if I can't get there quick enough! ; )

Cheers.

Bruce,

The car really looks impressive. You deserve to be proud of yourself. You put an unbelievable amount of hard work into getting that beast running.

Yeah, he sure did! I remember speaking to him about all the efforts at O'Fest. The car looks ab fab.

Cheers.

Bruce,

The car really looks impressive. You deserve to be proud of yourself. You put an unbelievable amount of hard work into getting that beast running.

Thanks. Just need to get the suspension tuned now. Hopefully that will find a bit of time.

Hey Bruce,

If I recall our conversation (at O'Fest right?) it wasn't so much about unsprung weight - Joe makes a good point with his 17 vs 18 weight comparison - but rather rotating intertia. Even if the weight is the same it's further out and thus it takes more energy to overcome that, both accelerating and decelerating. And of course I was taking into account some of the other attributes of your car that might also be a consideration, based on what you'd told me.

Also, I dunno that I was necessarily trying to sell you on the idea so much as we were discussing options. I'm definitely starting with smaller wheels/tires but then I'm running significantly less power than you are. It doesn't help me go through the corner faster if I can't get there quick enough! ; )

Cheers.

Some people swear by the large tires, some people swear by the smaller tires. I don't have the budget to try out all the options myself! LOL

Some people swear by the large tires, some people swear by the smaller tires. I don't have the budget to try out all the options myself! LOL

Ha! I think I remember discussing that too! ; ) Yeah, I'm pretty sure for me the smaller is the way to go, I just don't think I'm gonna have enough power to make them worth my while. But I do plan to test a couple sizes of 15's and also 17's. Results will tell!

Cheers.

Some people swear by the large tires, some people swear by the smaller tires. I don't have the budget to try out all the options myself! LOL

I ran 16s on my first e30. Same width wheels as current car. For a good while, I had same suspension setup on both cars. I agree that there is some very limited gain from the smaller diameter wheels (remember, the diameter of the tires is virtually the same...only shorter side walls) concerning acceleration, but that is quickly negated by being able to fit larger brakes, having the air/Nitrogen in the tires further away from the brakes, and having larger passages for improved air flow to cool the brakes, bearings, and also the wheels & tires themselves. So, while the smaller wheels MAY have a minimal benefit on a very small number (1-4 maybe) of hot laps, their performance will be more likely to fade in later laps whereas the larger diameter wheels help afford greater consistency throughout the longer races. Therefore, I would certainly prefer to have a smaller diameter wheel (and tire for that matter) when I participate in an autocross or a Solo I event, but anything that requires more than a very few hot laps....give me the fade resistance gained from the larger ones! ;););)

I don't think your S50B32 will be power-starved, nor do I think so concerning an e30 M3 with an S14. When I first started running my original e30, it had an M20 with 225k miles on the clock, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that it went faster with 16s on it than it did with 14s after just a lap or so. Brakes were fading and so were the tires. Then, I moved into racing in BM against some really fast cars and had to add more power. With the 16s, I could run with them for 1-5 laps, but in the later laps it wasn't pretty as they often pulled away on their 18s. I didn't think I could fit 18s on an e30, so I kept trying to improve handling to counteract the weakness. I wouldn't want you to have to experience the same frustration, so I've been recommending getting the 18s from the start. I believe the race results in Mod classes will support my theories on this too. ;););)

Thanks Mike. Helpful as always.

Thanks Mike. Helpful as always.

You are very welcome sir!
BTW... I forgot to mention, 18s are also great for limited budget racing since there is a pretty darn good supply of take-off slicks available for a fraction of the price of buy new....typically, with significant amount of tread-depth (lol... that's a funny description for a slick) remaining. ;)

You are very welcome sir!



Gee....thanks....for making me feel old. LOL

there is a pretty darn good supply of take-off slicks available for a fraction of the price of buy new....typically, with significant amount of tread-depth

educate me....is it tread depth or heat cycles that are more important for slicks? I've bought some used slicks with decent tread left but don't know anything about # of heat cycles. feel free to PM me.

sorry to hijack your thread Bruce.
:)

educate me....is it tread depth or heat cycles that are more important for slicks? I've bought some used slicks with decent tread left but don't know anything about # of heat cycles. feel free to PM me.

sorry to hijack your thread Bruce.
:)

s'ok...we've been off the topic for a number of posts now. Its all good. I can't say I am not interested in the answer. I want to buy some more slicks one day.

car looks awesome, good job!

educate me....is it tread depth or heat cycles that are more important for slicks? I've bought some used slicks with decent tread left but don't know anything about # of heat cycles. feel free to PM me.

sorry to hijack your thread Bruce.
:)

It's both!
Fortunately, most of the Pro-series take-offs have very few heat cycles on them (several (if not all) of those guys have ALL the money and put new sticker tires on when they pit to keep the absolute best possible lap times money can buy going). When we buy the take-offs, they sometimes have better than 70% life remaining and still measure as-new on the durometer that is used to measure just how hard they might have become. I've got some rains that I got used along with a set of wheels that clearly have very few laps on them at speed (if any), but they're hard as a rock because they're old or haven't been stored properly. If I didn't have a durometer to tell me they were worthless, I might make the mistake of trying to put them on the car....so, investing in an inexpensive tire durometer is a good idea so that you can tell how the tires should perform BEFORE you spend the time, effort, and money putting them on the car. ;););)

Most of the folks that are marketing used slicks want to keep customers coming back, so they'll cull the dead ones in favor of shipping something that will benefit they buyer. Since these folks typically have nothing but their time invested in the used tires, it's nothing to them to throw-out inventory that's seen better days so they can always ship tires that have significant usable life remaining. Sort of a win-win for everyone involved....especially folks that run 18's because they seem to be plentiful! ;););)

Fortunately, most of the Pro-series take-offs have very few heat cycles on them (several (if not all) of those guys have ALL the money and put new sticker tires on when they pit to keep the absolute best possible lap times money can buy going).

It's less about speed and more about being able to have a decent baseline to setup a car. If you're making changes to compensate for a set of tires with 3+ heat cycles on them in practice, you're car might suck in the race when you're on fresh tires.

I've got some rains that I got used along with a set of wheels that clearly have very few laps on them at speed (if any), but they're hard as a rock because they're old or haven't been stored properly. If I didn't have a durometer to tell me they were worthless, I might make the mistake of trying to put them on the car....so, investing in an inexpensive tire durometer is a good idea so that you can tell how the tires should perform BEFORE you spend the time, effort, and money putting them on the car

There are compounds for softening tires back up, and they actually do work. That would be a good idea to try on the rain tires since folks tend to keep rain tires for multiple seasons before using them up.

Bruce,

The car really looks impressive. You deserve to be proud of yourself. You put an unbelievable amount of hard work into getting that beast running.

With a little help from some friends.. :embarrasm Now it needs is a lot of stickers and an orange X.

Nice build. I took a break from this place to help me wean down on my E30 M3 addiction and I come back to see this =\

:)

With a little help from some friends.. :embarrasm Now it needs is a lot of stickers and an orange X.


It was a little more than little, but not quite to a lot. :-)

If I named everybody that helped I would surely forget somebody as it took nearly 4 years to get to this point!

Maybe not very much for lap records since it only takes a single hot lap to accomplish setting the record and the biggest advantages of the larger wheels don't show-up for a few laps. The fast laps weren't really the main point...instead: If I were to consider taking advice on my own race car build...I'd most likely prefer listening to someone who's accomplished something above average (like a track record fast lap) with their own similarly classed race car than listening to the "experts" on the internet that have yet to put down a fast lap on any size tires in a similarly classed race car. Plus, like Bruce says, I like to run 305's! ;););)
Was that fast lap record because of his wheel diameter or was it just a record run? In other words have any back to back tests been performed between 17 and 18 inch wheels or even a noticable difference in times when using 17 or 18 inch wheels been realized to come to the conclusion that 18's are better for lap times? I personally like 17 inches. I think they are a very well balanced wheel diameter in terms of rotational mass, weight, and overall availablity.

I love it!