I ran my M Roadster at Infineon yesterday on brand new full tread R888s (235/40/17 and 255/40/17). I started at 32 lbs each cold and wound up with 40 lbs hot. The track was cold in the first session and with brand new 'sticker' tires I babied it around the track. Definitely a bit slick but not really squirmy at full tread. the second session was still a bit cool but i could feel the grip increasing. After lunch the track was good and warm with temps in the upper 60s. I nthe next three sessions of the day i was carrying passengers but still opened her up and worked the tires pretty hard. Great traction and feel. I think I am going to like these better than the RA1s I've been running. I'll be back at Infineon on April 21st and up to Thunderhill May2nd. If the weather copperates I should really be able to wring out these tires on both those dates. The Thunderhill event in may will be the acid test as that is the track at which I let it all hang out.

P.S. started the long road of lightening the Roadster by pulling the AC stuff under the hood and removing my custom tow hitch. Good for about 30 lbs.

Hey Madman,

Good to hear your thoughts re: R888's. How do these compare to Hoosier R6's if you have had any experience with those.

I've never run Hoosiers. Until now I've only run 1 set of Kumho V700s and numeerous sets of RA1s. From what I've read the Hoosiers a a bit faster than the R888s but will not last as long. If the R888s follow the RA1s then the will be very consistent over the life of the tire. I regularly pushed my RA1s to the threads with fairly consistent lap times from start to finish of tire life. I do plan to try a set of Hoosiers (maybe next set)

It took 4 20-minute track sessions for my new, unshaved R888s to start sticking.

But they feel great now. :)

I also found that 40 lbs hot all the way around is what those tires like for my E36 M3.

how do you compare the R888's and the V700's?

also, where did u buy your R888's.... im about to buy a set of v700's from tire rack, and didnt see the R888's in a 255/40/17 size...

how do you compare the R888's and the V700's?

also, where did u buy your R888's.... im about to buy a set of v700's from tire rack, and didnt see the R888's in a 255/40/17 size...

TR doesn't carry many Toyos.

Jay

how do you compare the R888's and the V700's?

also, where did u buy your R888's.... im about to buy a set of v700's from tire rack, and didnt see the R888's in a 255/40/17 size...
Check out www.td4l.com for Toyo's.

How "squirmy" would you say full tread R888s are compared to full tread RA1s?

-Charlie

It took 4 20-minute track sessions for my new, unshaved R888s to start sticking.

But they feel great now. :)

I also found that 40 lbs hot all the way around is what those tires like for my E36 M3.

Agreed. The R888s need to be "broken" in, although a traditional heat cycle may be best, but I will never know now.

I personally found shooting for a lower hot pressure, aorund 36psi was better for my E36, which means starting low at around 27psi cold. First two laps you can feel the low pressure, but once the tire heats up it is much better, like they are harder to overheat. Perhaps it is a byproduct of the new carcass design, as I was told by a Toyo engineer it is exactly the same rubber compound as the RA1/NT01

Bassem

How "squirmy" would you say full tread R888s are compared to full tread RA1s?

-Charlie

I ran full tread 888's at Road Atlanta a week ago and there was virtually no tread squirm compared to full tread RA-1's.

I am thinking about getting these tires and using them on the street, and doing track days. Is anyone doing that now ?

Thanks, Bob.

This is good to hear. I finished my set of Yoko AD04's out last session and got the R888's in the garage waiting for the track to open and snow to melt lol. Good to hear that people like them better than the RA1's

How "squirmy" would you say full tread R888s are compared to full tread RA1s?

-Charlie

I always had my RA1s shaved to 6/32 so I never ran them full tread. Although, the R888s are 6/32 unshaved and therefore are quite similar to RA1s shaved to 6/32s.

One hard part of making comparisons between differnet tires is remembering the track conditions at the time for the older tire being compared. This has a big impact on the performance for a given day. Also comparing runs on different tracks. And finally, the driver is a variable from day to day.

didnt see the R888's in a 255/40/17 size...

http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/30029.pdf

how do you compare the R888's and the V700's?

also, where did u buy your R888's.... im about to buy a set of v700's from tire rack, and didnt see the R888's in a 255/40/17 size...

I ran the V700s (used) several years ago so comparison is probably not valid but gut feel is the R***s may be as fast.

I get my track tires from A.I.M. located at Infineon Raceway. They will shave if desired and dropship to your installer. Good people, Good service, Good prices.

well the R888 and the RA1's are cheaper than the v700's...

what would you recommend for a new driver to R comps... there is another $80 savings if I go with the RA1's.... also should I have them shaved, or keep them full thread??

these will be mounted on my SSR 17x9 rims for HPDE and auto-x duty...

thanks

even better.... TDRL is only hour and a half from my house... FREE PICKUP on RA1's or R888's.... help me choose

Hey ///Madman glad to hear you like the tires.. I run them on my DD, they are a little noisy but I got used to it. IMO the Hoosiers are faster but won't last 22 heat cycles like the R888's did on our spec car. Carl (ODYM3) reported that they were going away on Saturday. We run them full depth with no real squirm compared to full depth RA1's... BUT the RA1's full depth are at 8/32's too. The R888's need less camber due to the stiffer sidewall. Overall I would say they are a real improvement.

so you like the R888's more than the RA1's?

im wondering if its worth the extra $80 for the set of R888's..

i got a set of beat V700's from a friend that I've been using at auto-x and have made a HUGE difference from my street tires, but they are on their last leg. I have some HPDE events comn up back home (Road America, Gingerman, Blackhawk) in may and will be getting a set of either RA1's or R888's...

if the RA1's are a little less money, and will give me more feedback.. I'm just looking for a better "beginner" R compound...

which would you choose? looking for some professional input

RA1s are a great "beginner" R-comp. Great wear, feedback, grip, long lasting, etc. The R888s will soon replace all RA1s, so that decision will be made for you in the near future.

I found that on my heavy E36 I was getting the Groove Of Doom running lower than 34psi hot. I haven't had a hot day since last year, but I now start at 30-33 cold depending on track conditions and the ambient temp, shooting for a hot pressure between 35-38psi. 40 sounds a bit high. Honestly I've never been able to check them truly "hot". I'm assuming they've dropped 1-2psi after a cooldown lap and coming into the paddock.

I found that they need a couple of heat cycles spread over more than just 2 days to get really sticky, similar to RA1s. After 2 events, they were nice and grippy, and stay very consistent.

I found that on my heavy E36 I was getting the Groove Of Doom running lower than 34psi hot. I haven't had a hot day since last year, but I now start at 30-33 cold depending on track conditions and the ambient temp, shooting for a hot pressure between 35-38psi. 40 sounds a bit high. Honestly I've never been able to check them truly "hot". I'm assuming they've dropped 1-2psi after a cooldown lap and coming into the paddock.

I found that they need a couple of heat cycles spread over more than just 2 days to get really sticky, similar to RA1s. After 2 events, they were nice and grippy, and stay very consistent.

........is this all for the R888's? if so, any advice if I pick up the RA1's?

........is this all for the R888's? if so, any advice if I pick up the RA1's?

One BIG difference between the RA1s and R888s is you don't have to shave the R888s. The RA1s need to be shaved to at least 6/32s or you risk chunking (shaving costs). Also the RA1s at full tread depth are WAY to squirmy.

As for the V700s, they need to be heat cycled and preferably, shaved before using on the track.

All in all, IMHO, the R888s seem to be the HPDE drivers best bet for bang for the buck.

On my E36 M3, I find that if I go below ~38 lbs hot pressure in the R888, I get too much rollover. I can see it on the tread shoulder, and also feel it on the outside in very loaded corners.

That's why I said I like to keep the hot pressures around 40. Granted, these are measured when I come in from a session, after doing a cool-down lap, so the "true" hot pressures may be a little higher. But, I figure for HPDE, the tech is close enough. :)

My real problem now, which has nothing to do with my tires, is what I'm seeing on the pyrometer readings. Insides are around 15 degrees hotter than the outsides, with an increase across the tire. So, pressures seem good, but it's indicating too much negative camber. I'm running -2.9 front, -2.0 rear, and the car is corner-weighted.

OTOH, maybe I should look at these results as a good thing: I can "grow into" the negative camber by just driving harder... :) Of course, it may also be at TWS, there's not a lot of very tight corners, so on a more technical track, I may be using the outsides of the tires more. I'll see what happens at the BMWCCA DE at MSR-Cresson in April.

thanks for the great advice...

so the $15-$20 on shaving the RA1's is the difference in the R888's.... and the R888 is the newer RA1...

so R888's it is then... THANKS for all the input :)

any other advice on the R888's?

tire pressures cold/hot.. etc..

approximately how long should these last?

thanks for all the help :)

This is a great thread with great timing for me. I've been using RA-1's on my Z4 M Coupe at HPDE's and now have a JP 325 (and a rookie club racing license) I put a set of R888's on the 325 and plan to auto-x on 4/6 just to sort out the car for the club race @ VIR next month. I'll report back what I find next weekend. My RA-1's were great in the rain (when new) so I may end up using the 888's for rain tires since I have a set of hoosiers on the way. Thanks for all the great info. It gives me a good baseline to go by.
Dan

So interestingly in my size (285-30-18) the R888s are $34/tire more expensive than R6s. I assume given the choice, I want to run R6s? Will the R888s last longer?

So interestingly in my size (285-30-18) the R888s are $34/tire more expensive than R6s. I assume given the choice, I want to run R6s? Will the R888s last longer?

The R888s will last longer. I assume the R6s are faster but they also have to be heat cycled (and maybe shaved?) that may equal out the price difference.
But, if you are racing, I guess the R6s are the answer. For HPDEs definitely the R888s.

The R6s definitely do not get shaved, there is no tread to shave. I would likely have the R888s shaved from 6/32" to 4/32".

The R6s definitely do not get shaved, there is no tread to shave. I would likely have the R888s shaved from 6/32" to 4/32".

I don't race, I only do HPDEs (117 and counting) but I have heard from at least one BMW E36 M3 racer that has run the R888s full depth and spoke very highly of their performance at full depth. Perhaps other Racers can comment on this or we should start a new thread on that subject. My interest is only academic as I will continue to run my R888s at 6/32" for HPDEs.

any other advice on the R888's?



tire pressures cold/hot.. etc..



On my E36 M3, I find that if I go below ~38 lbs hot pressure in the R888, I get too much rollover. I can see it on the tread shoulder, and also feel it on the outside in very loaded corners.

That's why I said I like to keep the hot pressures around 40. Granted, these are measured when I come in from a session, after doing a cool-down lap, so the "true" hot pressures may be a little higher. But, I figure for HPDE, the tech is close enough. :)

My real problem now, which has nothing to do with my tires, is what I'm seeing on the pyrometer readings. Insides are around 15 degrees hotter than the outsides, with an increase across the tire. So, pressures seem good, but it's indicating too much negative camber. I'm running -2.9 front, -2.0 rear, and the car is corner-weighted.

OTOH, maybe I should look at these results as a good thing: I can "grow into" the negative camber by just driving harder... :) Of course, it may also be at TWS, there's not a lot of very tight corners, so on a more technical track, I may be using the outsides of the tires more. I'll see what happens at the BMWCCA DE at MSR-Cresson in April.

approximately how long should these last?

There are a number of factors that will play into this:
-Heat cycles
-Weight of car
-Camber
-Driving style
-Tire rotation/flipping
-Track surfaces

Also, do you plan on running the tires until corded or until performance is subpar?

thanks igyloo, but no where in there does it have the cold pressures... i know there are a lot of variables that go into the longevity of the race tire, but was curious as to the APPROX.. length of use from other people who have put them through there paces

thanks igyloo, but no where in there does it have the cold pressures... i know there are a lot of variables that go into the longevity of the race tire, but was curious as to the APPROX.. length of use from other people who have put them through there paces

In extreme money-crunch racing mode, I've put 10 to 12 races on a set of RA1s essentially racing them right down to the cords. At that point, their performance degrades quickly. :D Also, as for shelf-life, most R compound tires will be useless after 6-12 months to a year no matter how much tread they have left, whereas I've put 4 year old RA1s on the track that worked pretty well after getting some good heat back into them. Since the compound is the same, I'd expect similar performance from the 888s.

FWIW, I personally found the 888s squirmy full-tread with a 2800lb car+driver setup and 235/40x17s; they were okay after about 4 hard sessions. They did not chunk however, even after getting seriously hot.

thanks igyloo, but no where in there does it have the cold pressures... i know there are a lot of variables that go into the longevity of the race tire, but was curious as to the APPROX.. length of use from other people who have put them through there paces

Well...my brother was running RA1s for quite some time. I didn't really drive on them that much, but I can say this, his tires lasted significantly longer than my V710s and my R3S04s. My tires had more grip initially, but after about 4-5 heat cycles perfomance significantly dropped off while the RA1s didn't change much. In fact his lap times kept dropping as the RA1s wore on. RA1s were superior when it comes to longevity and overal grip through the life of the tire. Since the R888 is rumored to have the same compound they should react similarly.

Cold tire pressure vs hot tire pressure...it's always going to vary based on weather and track conditions. I could be wrong, but for track days I started my pressures out at -5 from my desired "high" hot pressure ran a few laps and then checked pressure and wear if I felt the car was handling funny. If not, I would keep going until my brakes were smoking or tires were getting greasy. I would do tire pressure before I would play with the dampening on my shocks. After every session after pulling off I always checked pressure to either mantain a "hot" pressure that I liked or adjust accordingly.

You need to try them out for yourself, all the information that you get here isn't going to get you what's right for you so try aiming for a target of around 38-40 psi "hot" and see how the car feels. If you don't like it (the car is understeering/oversteering) and tires aren't rolling over adjust accordingly.

thanks for all the help...

If R888 is same compound as RA-1's, I am having second thoughts on purchasing some as they cost more NASA time trial (mod) points. :(

Alright, I just pulled the trigger on 255-40-17 R888s unshaved. Cross your fingers that I like them.

If R888 is same compound as RA-1's, I am having second thoughts on purchasing some as they cost more NASA time trial (mod) points. :(
From what I have read through many forums, the R888 is not the same compound as the RA-1 as some believe, it's similar to the NT-01, but not the same and a new tread design obviously. From what I've read they are better and unless you aren't shaving the RA-1s, you won't save much money since the R888's come at 6/32.

Alright, I just pulled the trigger on 255-40-17 R888s unshaved. Cross your fingers that I like them.

same here

Where did you order yours from? I ordered mine from Woodman at $180/tire.

Update: both Woodman and Frisby told me they are not available right now. Please tell me where to find em!

Update: both Woodman and Frisby told me they are not available right now. Please tell me where to find em!

I get mine from A.I.M. Motorsport at Infineon Raceway

I tried to buy 255s at the end of last season. AIM kept telling me they'd be available soon. Finally went with NT-01s. Couldn't wait any longer. Seems to me that the R888s were still not available in Dec.

Duh! They've had them in Urope for months if not years.

Jay

Update: both Woodman and Frisby told me they are not available right now. Please tell me where to find em!

Racetire dot com? They have them listed but I do not know about the inventory.
Joel

I tried to buy 255s at the end of last season. AIM kept telling me they'd be available soon. Finally went with NT-01s. Couldn't wait any longer. Seems to me that the R888s were still not available in Dec.

Duh! They've had them in Urope for months if not years.

Jay

I got my 255s from AIM in Mid March. I had them at Infineon on the 21st.

From what I have read through many forums, the R888 is not the same compound as the RA-1 as some believe, it's similar to the NT-01, but not the same and a new tread design obviously. From what I've read they are better and unless you aren't shaving the RA-1s, you won't save much money since the R888's come at 6/32.


So if the R888's are a different compound then the RA-1's can I expect them not to last as long as the RA-1's???

I was told point blank by a Toyo engineer that R888s, RA-1s and NT01s are exactly the same rubber compound. Nitto owns Toyo (or vice versa), that's why they use the same formulation. The different characteristics between the three are solely based on:

- Internal construction
- Tread depth
- Tread pattern

People prefer one over the other because that tires characteristics suit their driving style better. The most anyone should be able to get out of this rubber compound is to run NT01s shaved to 2/32nds. Its a waste of money unless the rules you run with require a 100 treadwear tire.

Hope this helps,
Bassem

Update: both Woodman and Frisby told me they are not available right now. Please tell me where to find em!

Are those the only Toyo dealer? I got mine from a local (non-chain) tire shop that sold Toyo tires. They special ordered them for me and got them within a week (255/35-18)

Bassem

If R888 is same compound as RA-1's, I am having second thoughts on purchasing some as they cost more NASA time trial (mod) points. :(

They cost more than what? RA-1's are 5 points. MPSC's are 7 points and Hoosiers and R1's are 10 points. I think they are assesed the lowest points for an R-Compound. If you don't want any points, you'll have to run a street tire like the Advan AD07 (http://tinyurl.com/38wa6g).

-Scott

Update: both Woodman and Frisby told me they are not available right now. Please tell me where to find em!

I was told by Phils Tire Service that the tires are currently on the west coast, and will be making their way to the east coast shortly.

If you need them ASAP, try a dealer on the west coast.

-Scott

They cost more than what? RA-1's are 5 points. MPSC's are 7 points and Hoosiers and R1's are 10 points. I think they are assesed the lowest points for an R-Compound. If you don't want any points, you'll have to run a street tire like the Advan AD07 (http://tinyurl.com/38wa6g).

-Scott

You need to check the rules updates for 2008, there are point values tied to specific tires now including the Toyo/Nitto products.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Time-Trial-Rules.pdf

RA-1's +5
R888 +7
NT-01 +7

The kicker is that a few of the guys down here in SoCal were complaining that they felt the R888 isn't as good of a tire as the RA-1 and were considering switching back, whether or not there was a 2 point mod pickup for doing so.

I personally found shooting for a lower hot pressure, aorund 36psi was better for my E36, which means starting low at around 27psi cold. First two laps you can feel the low pressure, but once the tire heats up it is much better, like they are harder to overheat.

I found the same thing running here in hot California weather. I was surprised how low I'd find them cold the next morning after dialing them in all day. I start at a cold pressure of about 27 or 28 now.

The choice between which Toyo R-Comp tire to run is EASY...

You want the tire that doesn't need shaving, works great in the rain, has set numerous track records, won the 25 Hours of Thunderhill and is the least expensive.

And that tire is.... The Nitto NT01 !!! :alright

Hello? Toyo owns Nitto so it counts! If you haven't tried them - you are missing out.

I got the chance to drive Josh's IP car at Cal Speedway a couple weekends ago. I borrowed a set of used NT01 tires from Beekman "FROM JULY" and won the 9-car I-Prepared field and set the fast lap for the weekend. Again - on NT01 tires last run in JULY.

Anyway... sure they help Scott and I out but I don't have to type this stuff. They really are awesome. 235-40-17 is $164 delivered from Discount Tire Direct. I think the cheapest R888 I've seen is $199 NOT delivered. If it's $15 each to deliver then you are looking at a savings of about $200 a set.

-Ralph

When I bought my 255/40-17 NT-01s last Oct/Nov I believe they were $172 ea from Discount Tire. R888s in that size were not available yet. RA-1s were about $20 per tire more plus they had to be shaved, so add another $10-20 per tire.

I have no point of reference with the R888s but I can say I like the NT-01s better than RA-1s which I ran for several years. I definitely like the stiffer sidewall... nice turn-in. So far I have 11 track days on them and they're wearing fine (started full tread).

I'm not in the new tires for every race weekend catagory. I need a set of tires to last a full season. So far it looks like they will. If so, I'll be a happy camper.

Jay

Hmmm??? Looks like I have something new to look forward to when I wear out these R888s.

Hmmm??? Looks like I have something new to look forward to when I wear out these R888s.

What are the offsets on your wheels John? If they're close to mine maybe we could switch for an afternoon to have a chance to compare. My K-1s are ET40.

Jay

No way we could switch with the weird rear offsets on the M Roadster.

No way we could switch with the weird rear offsets on the M Roadster.

Hey John,

You could do it, the switch, if you wanted to. The rear arms are the same between the 2.8l Z3 and the M version. I'm running the 16" rims from my 1.9l Z3 as they're only 16lbs each. Point is that e-36 offset's are about the same irregardless of varient.

James

Hey John,

You could do it, the switch, if you wanted to. The rear arms are the same between the 2.8l Z3 and the M version. I'm running the 16" rims from my 1.9l Z3 as they're only 16lbs each. Point is that e-36 offset's are about the same irregardless of varient.

James

Not true for the M Roadster. The rear offsets of the OEM wheels is something like 8. Very few aftermarket wheels are available for the rear of the M Roadster

Sorry to interrupt, but

irregardless

is not a word.

Carry on. :)

235-40-17 is $164 delivered from Discount Tire Direct. I think the cheapest R888 I've seen is $199 NOT delivered. If it's $15 each to deliver then you are looking at a savings of about $200 a set.
-Ralph

When I bought my 255/40-17 NT-01s last Oct/Nov I believe they were $172 ea from Discount Tire. R888s in that size were not available yet.
Jay

From what I've found, I can get R888s in 255/40/17 for $188 and a coupon code that covers the shipping basically. Discount Tire has the 255/40/17 for $188 as well, but I have to deal with tax in that case. Both tires look excellent and are supposed to be the same compound, just different tread design and tire construction as far as I know. I may be wrong though.

Sorry to interrupt, but



is not a word.

Carry on. :)

That is correct but, irregardless, it is commonly (mis)used by many of us Yanks who have been deprived of a Canadian Education.

Now, do you have anything intelligent to contribute to this thread?

That is correct but, irregardless, it is commonly (mis)used by many of us Yanks who have been deprived of a Canadian Education.

Now, do you have anything intelligent to contribute to this thread?

It's "Canadian Edumucation".

+1 on the compound being the same.

My info comes from the VP of Engineering for Toyo (USA).

I guess I'll believe him until someone independently runs a mass spec or uv/ir analysis on the compounds and posts the results (and calibration records of the machines...). :shifty

I was told point blank by a Toyo engineer that R888s, RA-1s and NT01s are exactly the same rubber compound. Nitto owns Toyo (or vice versa), that's why they use the same formulation. The different characteristics between the three are solely based on:

- Internal construction
- Tread depth
- Tread pattern

People prefer one over the other because that tires characteristics suit their driving style better. The most anyone should be able to get out of this rubber compound is to run NT01s shaved to 2/32nds. Its a waste of money unless the rules you run with require a 100 treadwear tire.

Hope this helps,
Bassem

It's "Canadian Edumucation".

Apparently some of the major dictionaries have caved in and added 'irregardless'. One of my pet peeves is the use of 'supposably' instead of 'supposedly' but to my horror 'supposably' is in the O.E.D.

BTW, my Maternal Grandfather was French-Canadian

It's "Canadian Edumucation".

Then tell a Newfy joke, and I'll tell a Red-neck joke.

If you've got a car, sitting in your yard, in pieces... then you might be a red-neck!:alright

James
My garage looks like a Z3 exploded in it.

The choice between which Toyo R-Comp tire to run is EASY...

You want the tire that doesn't need shaving, works great in the rain, has set numerous track records, won the 25 Hours of Thunderhill and is the least expensive.

And that tire is.... The Nitto NT01 !!! :alright

Hello? Toyo owns Nitto so it counts! If you haven't tried them - you are missing out.

I got the chance to drive Josh's IP car at Cal Speedway a couple weekends ago. I borrowed a set of used NT01 tires from Beekman "FROM JULY" and won the 9-car I-Prepared field and set the fast lap for the weekend. Again - on NT01 tires last run in JULY.

Anyway... sure they help Scott and I out but I don't have to type this stuff. They really are awesome. 235-40-17 is $164 delivered from Discount Tire Direct. I think the cheapest R888 I've seen is $199 NOT delivered. If it's $15 each to deliver then you are looking at a savings of about $200 a set.

-Ralph

Just ran the NT-01's this weekend for the first time and they were great. i was very suprised with the excellent communication they provided. The rear end also didn't seem to snap out of control when driven over the edge. my street hanooks had more snap oversteer then these, it felt rather progressive and made driving them to the limit easy. I got them from discount tire direct along with a $100 off coupon for getting two sets of tires. so that's $50 less off the set. It would talke a lot to make me move from these to the r888.

damnit you guys are killing me here.... NT-01's or R888's.... which is it??? haha

In my case I looked at the Nitto's, but they only come in one size for 16" rims, which is "could" work and is close but does raise my final gear ratio. Then in the R-888's they only came in 225/50-16 which gives up tread width to the Ho-ho's 225/50-16 and RA-1's-Kook's 245/45-16 which are very close in tread width. Now, I've got this flyer for $100 off R-888's but do they really have them in more sizes? BTW, I prefer frisby/sierra tire as they're just a couple of hours away in Lost-Wages and I don't have to pay California's sales tax.

James

...is not a word.

Carry on. :)

:rofl: :rofl:

So .... shave the R888 or no shave. This is racing, no DE, so life is less important than performance. What say those who have tried them?

Not to take this too off topic but my question does seem to be on topic now.

All 3 tires have the same compound, RA-1, R888, and the NT-01. I know the R888 is replacing the RA-1 eventually and each tire will suit different driving styles better.

Let's look at all 3 full tread. Is there a way from looking at each tire's tread pattern to help you figure which tire would suit you better?

I am no expert but from looking at the tread the RA-1 seems like a better choice for a rain tire compared to the others, full tread that is.

If this gets to far off topic OP I will start a new thread.

Edit: I think I was wrong.

Not to take this too off topic but my question does seem to be on topic now.

All 3 tires have the same compound, RA-1, R888, and the NT-01. I know the R888 is replacing the RA-1 eventually and each tire will suit different driving styles better.

Let's look at all 3 full tread. Is there a way from looking at each tire's tread pattern to help you figure which tire would suit you better?

I am no expert but from looking at the tread the RA-1 seems like a better choice for a rain tire compared to the others, full tread that is.

If this gets to far off topic OP I will start a new thread.

Not sure all 3 tires have the same compound. It seems the NT-01 and R888 do. It's a moot point anyway since the RA-1s are being replaced by the R888. We know the RA-1s are good rain tires at full tread. Not true in the dry. I have no interest in running RA-1s in the dry without shaving. I also know the NT-01s are great in the dry at full tread. It would seem this is true of the R888s too.

If I buy RA-1s now and later need a replacement or 2, they may not be available.

If I use either of the other 2 they can be run at full tread which should work well in the rain as well.

I like the stiffer sidewall of the NT-01s which is similar, if not the same, in the R888.

For me..... out with the old, in with the new. Choice depends on price and availability.

Jay

For racing, the ony think you are going to get from shaving a R888 is less weight. They typically shave about 2lbs per tire. I ran full tread R888's with no negative side affects under lots of abuse...

with RA-1s going away, what will the racers among you use for rain tires? Not an issue for me as I do not run in the rain with my open car.

with RA-1s going away, what will the racers among you use for rain tires? Not an issue for me as I do not run in the rain with my open car.

I'll just run full-tread NT01s in the rain. I haven't driven them on anything more than damp asphalt, but if I remember last year's Laguna Seca race weekend correctly, Ralph Warren qualified the HP car on pole for Sunday in the rain on them.

Good to hear about full tread R888 in the dry. For rain, you gotta hand groove them, like the old Hoosier Wets. I'll be getting a new set hand grooved in a couple of weeks, so I'll post what they look like. People have tested the R888 in rain, and the concesus is that the suck ass.

so nt-01 and the R888 are both pretty comparable for full thread in dry conditions?

so nt-01 and the R888 are both pretty comparable for full thread in dry conditions?


After reading Ralph Warren's endorsement I would have to say go with the NT-01s. I know I will be going to them after I wear out these R888s.

roger... NT-01's it is then depending on price and availability... otherwise I can get R888's for about $190 a tire in 255/40/17, and I can pick them up too, with no shipping costs...(warehouse is about an hour from house)

thanks Jay

roger... NT-01's it is then depending on price and availability... otherwise I can get R888's for about $190 a tire in 255/40/17, and I can pick them up too, with no shipping costs...(warehouse is about an hour from house)

:confused

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12598240&postcount=39

So .... shave the R888 or no shave. This is racing, no DE, so life is less important than performance. What say those who have tried them?

Our E30 PRO-3 spec series is researching what tire to use in 2009. We currently use the RA1. We receive series support from Toyo. We are still on the RA1 for 2008. Speed World Challenge is now on the R888. I asked James Clay what he thought after their first race at Sebring. He said if you liked the RA1, you'll like the R888. He says they are shaving the tire for competition, which I expected. He also said R888 rain performance was good due to the tread design.

cheers,

Lance Richert
Seattle

I read on Rennlist that the R888's are a lot slower shaved than unshaved.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=420533&highlight=r888+shaved

^^^^Interesting.

:confused

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12598240&postcount=39

always something from my interesting hawaii observant mofo.... i did pull the trigger on them, and they were backordered.. so I cancelled the order

Good to hear about full tread R888 in the dry. For rain, you gotta hand groove them, like the old Hoosier Wets. I'll be getting a new set hand grooved in a couple of weeks, so I'll post what they look like. People have tested the R888 in rain, and the concesus is that the suck ass.

2 friends of mine just did a track day at Pocono in the rain. Both finished in the top 2 for time trials.
They attributed it too the new r888's unshaven. They couldnt say enough about them.

2 friends of mine just did a track day at Pocono in the rain. Both finished in the top 2 for time trials.
They attributed it too the new r888's unshaven. They couldnt say enough about them.

They may be ok in the rain because they have tread, but they can't be great rain tires. They are just too hard of a compound. Great rain tires are made of much softer compounds than dry tires, and Toyo's are on the hard end of the dry tire scale. If you're friends had been running Hoosier rains, they would have turned even better lap times.

Don't know if anybody has mentioned it, but I have found the R888's like a much lower pressures than the RA-1's. I was shooting for 40 psi on RA-1's, and with the R888's I have been running around 36-37 psi and still not sure if that is low enough.

2 friends of mine just did a track day at Pocono in the rain. Both finished in the top 2 for time trials.
They attributed it too the new r888's unshaven. They couldnt say enough about them.


My first event on R888's was at an autocross in the wet (light drizzle, damp, wet in places, but no standing water). It kinda dried out towards the end of the day. My dry times where not signifigantly faster than my wet times, however most everyone else did get a lot faster when it dried up. This leads me to believe they must be pretty good in the wet (well atleast damp).

I had the 2nd fastest time of the day. I've never placed that high before at an autox. I attribute this to the fact that they are pretty sticky when cold and heat up quick. Completely opposite of my heat cycled MPSC's that take forever to heat up and are completely useless when cold.

-Scott

:eatpop:

On my E36 M3, I find that if I go below ~38 lbs hot pressure in the R888, I get too much rollover. I can see it on the tread shoulder, and also feel it on the outside in very loaded corners.

That's why I said I like to keep the hot pressures around 40. Granted, these are measured when I come in from a session, after doing a cool-down lap, so the "true" hot pressures may be a little higher. But, I figure for HPDE, the tech is close enough. :)

My real problem now, which has nothing to do with my tires, is what I'm seeing on the pyrometer readings. Insides are around 15 degrees hotter than the outsides, with an increase across the tire. So, pressures seem good, but it's indicating too much negative camber. I'm running -2.9 front, -2.0 rear, and the car is corner-weighted.

OTOH, maybe I should look at these results as a good thing: I can "grow into" the negative camber by just driving harder... :) Of course, it may also be at TWS, there's not a lot of very tight corners, so on a more technical track, I may be using the outsides of the tires more. I'll see what happens at the BMWCCA DE at MSR-Cresson in April.

This is probably because you're taking a cool down lap before you get your pyrometer readings, which is throwing off the readings.

I dug them on my caddy but the car weighed lots more too. 31 cold to a 40 hot and they did stick very nicely - ask the P cars:)