What do you all think in terms of looks, speed, and pricing.

right now....I'm not happy with the pricing on the 1 series

no comparison. e46 M3 destroys 135 in everything from looks to overall performance.

"Destroys" is a pretty heavy word to use.

2004 M3 @ 333 HP @ 7,900 rpm & 262 ft/lb all at 3415(ish) pounds
0 - 60: 4.8 (C&D)
1/4 mi: 13.6 (C&D) @ 105

2008 135i @ 300 HP @ 5,800 rpm & 300 ft/lb @ 3373(ish) pounds
0 -60: 4.7 (C&D)
1/4 mi: 13.3 @ 106 mph


That being stated though the M3 has a limited slip differential and a more focused suspension and better looks IMO. ;)

I'll take the 135.

Numbers aren't even worth being posted. The E46 M3 imo is a better car.

135i pwns the m3 in speed but its overpriced and looks like a whale

iunno i wuold be on the fence i guess it depends which one i could turbo easier

so e46 ftw

i'll Take a M plz

right now....I'm not happy with the pricing on the 1 series

I agree.. I was just at Irvine BMW and they wanted almost $45k for the 135i they had. That's too much money for that car. If you're going to spend those funds, buy either a used M3 or the 335i. At the $45k asking price the E46 M3 is hands down much better. I was going to buy a 135i, but now I'm looking for a M3.

Despite the numbers, the 2 are pretty different in terms of character. The E46 M3 is rawer, the suspension tighter. The engine loves, and needs, to be revved. Until you get to 4500 rpm, the engine is loud but underwhelming. But then, hold on.

The 135i is softer, but has more torque down low. It will feel faster off the line in normal daily driving when you don't feel like wringing the engine out. It doesn't have a true LSD, and on-center steering feel is a little numb compared to the ///M. Also, softer suspension combined with shorter wheelbase made it feel a little less surefooted in turns. YMMV, as I only had a short test drive in the 135i.

135 is really pricey and im not really fond of the looks. The 135 has a lot more potential then the m3 I would say but they are two different machines. I would probabaly rather have the m3 because it looks a lot better and its an ///m but I would not mind owning the 135 either:)

I made the choice -- car has to be my daily driver. 135I -- E46 looks better; but, they both look better then the new M3 -- just my opinion.

E46 M3 looks better no doubt. I still believe that the 135i looks like a disney animated BMW. And this isn't my opinion because i have an e46, it is because i saw the 1 series before i even was thinking about purchasing mine I felt that it looked that way.

I voted 135 because I couldn't vote E30...

seriously though, the 135's aftermarket will be more successful in my eyes, which makes for more customization and enjoyment on any car. You can only get so many pricey unnecessary add on's from the stealership, then you have to look to crazy aftermarket companies to really waste your money :lol

I like the 135, but man, the e46 Mer is just a gorgeous piece of machinery, have to give it the nod

What about in terms of mileage. An E46 M3 would have 30,000 some odd miles on it for the same price as a new 135

Compared to the 135i, the E46 //M is starting to look a little dated. I'll take the 135, with the less stressed engine. Save a few pennies and buy the LSD from the performance catalog.

Man this is really tough...maybe I'm a sucker for marketing, but I'd have to go with an M with some miles on it.

mb

the two cars are different in more aspects than similar.

the 135 is not an ///M car, therefore is it not designed for the performance aspect of a car.
The ///M Is not turbo'd so the torque wont kick in until a little higher rpms.
The 135 is meant to be a smaller car, hence the 1 series, while the e46 mentioned, is a 3 series.

Now money makes the difference here. Of course you can make a 135 have everything the ///M does, and vice versa. It all depends on how much you have to spend, and what you want to spend it on.

Personally, i would go with the ///M just because it IS the race inspired version of a 3 series, where the 135 is just the 1 series with the same motor as a 3 series.

BUT insurance costs more, parts costs more, service costs more etc. Find the equilibrium price and make your choice.

"Destroys" is a pretty heavy word to use.

2004 M3 @ 333 HP @ 7,900 rpm & 262 ft/lb all at 3415(ish) pounds
0 - 60: 4.8 (C&D)
1/4 mi: 13.6 (C&D) @ 105

2008 135i @ 300 HP @ 5,800 rpm & 300 ft/lb @ 3373(ish) pounds
0 -60: 4.7 (C&D)
1/4 mi: 13.3 @ 106 mph


That being stated though the M3 has a limited slip differential and a more focused suspension and better looks IMO. ;)

Add the Xcede ECU to the 135 and it's the 135 that will blow the doors off the E46 M3. But probably not in looks. I just parked my E36 next to the 135 today at the dealership... Looks like my E36 is slightly bigger (but not taller) in legroom than the 135 and also has a bigger trunk. This makes me wonder where the hell did they put the extra 200 lbs of weight in the 135. I think my M3 looks much better than the 135. Of course, now that my M3 has been "neutered" (sold my AASC :( ), the 135 will blow my E36 M3 away. I'm not too happy with the color schemes of the 135 either.

I recently looked up the colors for the 1999 M's and they had a much much better color selection than today's choices. Today, you basically get 2 colors: BLAND and different shades of black/grey. No more "flashy" colors like Dakar Yellow, Techno Violet, Bright Red, Estoril Blue, Boston Green, Montreal Blue, etc... Ok, one would argue that there is "Monaco Blue"...it's "ok", I suppose...

Engine history on the E46 M3 leaves something to be desired, don't you think?
Are all those detonating engines repaired or rebuilt? Maybe that's old news now. The new 1 is a proper size v. the ever increasing need for a diet on the M3's IMHO. Get car down to 3000-3200lbs tops and now we're talking!!!

After driving the 135i the other day I can say with certainty there's just no reason to buy an e46 m3 anymore.

135i please.

After driving the 135i the other day I can say with certainty there's just no reason to buy an e46 m3 anymore.
Wow, really? I have to drive one now!

The 1 series looks familiar

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/Ward-2-web.jpg http://www.roadfly.com/new-cars/wp-content/uploads/gallery/2008-bmw-135i-gotland-ring/bmw-135i-track.jpg

frankly a great overall ride, bmw really goes outta their way to create master pieces now a days. really transverse to what they have been doing, hopefully the car will make it into gt5 where i could time attack it on tsukuba.

Both are nice cars, but I've gotta say an M3 is better.

"Destroys" is a pretty heavy word to use.

2004 M3 @ 333 HP @ 7,900 rpm & 262 ft/lb all at 3415(ish) pounds
0 - 60: 4.8 (C&D)
1/4 mi: 13.6 (C&D) @ 105

2008 135i @ 300 HP @ 5,800 rpm & 300 ft/lb @ 3373(ish) pounds
0 -60: 4.7 (C&D)
1/4 mi: 13.3 @ 106 mph


That being stated though the M3 has a limited slip differential and a more focused suspension and better looks IMO. ;)

Keyword being overall performance. Even with software, the 135 will still be smoked by the E46 M3 in overall performance. Straight line is a driver's race, but go out on a track. Remember, the new AMG C63 kills the E92 M3 in a straight line, but overall, the M3 runs circles around it.

M3 hands down.. The M3 is a greater car. Remember power is not everything and the M3 was the top of the class of this model. The suspension and the engine (remember is N/A) are superior to many cars of this model year. HOWEVER the 1 series IS A NEW CAR. Brakes very well, and the engine has TONS of potential. It comes to ..
1. do you want a new car?
2. or do you want the best car for the money..

BUT you can't go wrong

I drove the 135 yesterday and the whole time I found myself thinking...this car isn't as good as my old E46 M3...

That being said...I like having a newer car...

If I had never owned the E46 M3...I wouldn't be jaded...so the 135 would be a great car.

But...the M3 is such a great car...if you can afford to live without a warranty...it's a blast.

I think that those who are saying that "the M3 is far better because it's an M and has M suspension" are kidding themselves. From my understanding the suspension architecture of the two cars is very similar, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The biggest and probably only thing the E46 has over the 135i is the LSD and flared fenders that fit wider tires.

Keep in mind, this is coming from an E46 M3 owner.

I think it will ultimately depend on what you want in the car. I have thought about selling my E46 M3 to get a 135i.

Maybe my opinion will be different after I drive a 135i this weekend.

yes very true indeed, few factors seperate the usfullnesses of the m car compaired with siblings. truth be told i have not had the pleasure of seat time behind either so my chime can only be brought and relayed to you as a enthusiast of motor-sports. and all this banter about m vs m could be summed up with one word. economics.

I think that those who are saying that "the M3 is far better because it's an M and has M suspension" are kidding themselves. From my understanding the suspension architecture of the two cars is very similar, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The biggest and probably only thing the E46 has over the 135i is the LSD and flared fenders that fit wider tires.

Keep in mind, this is coming from an E46 M3 owner.

I think it will ultimately depend on what you want in the car. I have thought about selling my E46 M3 to get a 135i.

Maybe my opinion will be different after I drive a 135i this weekend.

I think it will. I was seriously considering the 135...but it was a disappointments. The whole time I was thinking that it didn't have the feel that the E46 M3 had. Don't get me wrong..it handled great...but it felt looser in the corners and I recall the M3 feeling. I didn't feel comfortable pushing it at all. Then when I got in the E92 M3...I felt right at home...even got the DSC to intervene a couple of times as I was pushing it around some long sweepers.

135i. It's turbo'd.

Keyword being overall performance. Even with software, the 135 will still be smoked by the E46 M3 in overall performance. Straight line is a driver's race, but go out on a track. Remember, the new AMG C63 kills the E92 M3 in a straight line, but overall, the M3 runs circles around it.

+1

If you want a drag race monster, BMWs are usually not a way to go, you can easily get something faster and cheaper. It's the overall track performance that BMW is well known.

135i 0-60 4.7 seconds
2006 M3 Comp Pack 0-60 5.5 seconds



Hmmm...Old vs new

Hmmm...Past vs Future




err 135i 4thwin

I looked at, but did not drive a 135i last night at the dealer and I liked it overall, but inside it just didn't feel as nice as my M3.

I sat in the E92 M3 and it did feel like the next evolution of my car.

Where are you getting your info?

232983



135i 0-60 4.7 seconds
2006 M3 Comp Pack 0-60 5.5 seconds



Hmmm...Old vs new

Hmmm...Past vs Future




err 135i 4thwin

bmw listed it as 5.5 0-60 but I would go with the specs you posted as they are more accurate in real world.

The fact is, those of us looking to buy a car now have the choice of buying a used M3 <and gawd only knows how it has been driven> or for about the same money get a brand new 135i with the next gen TT engine? The older M3's are great cars no doubt, but they are gone, and they ain't coming back. So all of the talk about just strolling out and finding a low miliage, great shape m3 for about the same price as you would pay for a new 135i is a waste.

Hell I would go out and buy a Porsche 914 2.0 if I could find a nice one, but it's not gonna happen. The 135i matches or exceeds the old M3 on almost every level, and it's new.

Honestly? If 135i is a spiritual successor to ANY bmw car I think it is the older M3's. Smaller, faster, lighter, better brakes and suspension...sound a lot like the m3. The new M3, while beautiful, is a hog. The 135i unchipped/remapped is only a fraction slower, gets much better MPG and is 20k less.

I believe the older M3 guys should stop raggin on the 135i and realize that this is the real M3 successor.

I don't think that comparing an E46 M3 to a porsche 914 is really a fair comparison being that you CAN still find nice used E46 M3s that are still under factory warranty.

Anyway. I went and drove a black/black 135i 6-spd today and here are my impressions.

First of all, I have to say that I LOVED the sport seats, much better than my stock M3 seats. The car overall felt like a BMW should, the ergonomics were great, everything was laid out as it should have been.

If I were looking for a nice DD to compliment my E36 M3 track car, I would have no issues going to the 135i.

However, I do feel that while the 135i is a very quick and extremely good car that it did feel like less car than my E46 M3 (granted mine is heavily modded). The big thing that was apparent was the lack of an LSD. A slight blip of the throttle resulted in heavy wheelspin (it's wet here) that would not have occured in my car with the LSD.

Other than that, it is really hard to find any fault with the car.

Personally i'd take the e46 m3 cause while the 135i is just as good performance wise its looks just aren't the same. First off the headlights are huge and it weights too much for a car of that size

It's funny to watch the stats racing crowd justify the merits of both cars. I also enjoy the "if you only put this much money into it" crowd argue who's faster. (ps...mag guys please pull the stats on Skid Pads and Slaloms between the two...;))

I don't live my life one red light to the next. I have never driven the RING. I don't have a slalom course on my way to work or a skid pad on my way to the grocery store. I will never strap a Saturn V rocket to the back of a cars ass to get 100000 more pounds of thrust out of it.

What I do is drive the daily grind in traffic and occasionally get to open a car up on a road and take corners at 85% of a cars abilities. If I'm real lucky I get to drive in track events twice a year.

SO...what make a sports car/coupe/sedan worth owning is how much fun I have in day to day driving.

Having driven (more than enough to have a real opinion) the E46 M3 and owning the 135i I can tell you this from my experience that the 135i is more fun to drive.

The 135i doesn't feel it's weight, has a better shift throws and clutch. It is quicker in all gears due to the torque.

It's more fun to drive day in and day out.

On the subject of looks, the E46 M3 is a beautiful car. The 135i is a love or hate it car. In the end there is a real valid reason the E46 M3 was discontinued and the new M3 was rolled out. Just like there is a reason my 135i will be outdone in a few years by the next 1 Series. Progress...BMW keeps moving forward.

again...just my 1 person opinion..I'm sure there are many others that will disagree.

It's funny to watch the stats racing crowd justify the merits of both cars. I also enjoy the "if you only put this much money into it" crowd argue who's faster. (ps...mag guys please pull the stats on Skid Pads and Slaloms between the two...;))

I don't live my life one red light to the next. I have never driven the RING. I don't have a slalom course on my way to work or a skid pad on my way to the grocery store. I will never strap a Saturn V rocket to the back of a cars ass to get 100000 more pounds of thrust out of it.

What I do is drive the daily grind in traffic and occasionally get to open a car up on a road and take corners at 85% of a cars abilities. If I'm real lucky I get to drive in track events twice a year.

SO...what make a sports car/coupe/sedan worth owning is how much fun I have in day to day driving.

Having driven (more than enough to have a real opinion) the E46 M3 and owning the 135i I can tell you this from my experience that the 135i is more fun to drive.

The 135i doesn't feel it's weight, has a better shift throws and clutch. It is quicker in all gears due to the torque.

It's more fun to drive day in and day out.

On the subject of looks, the E46 M3 is a beautiful car. The 135i is a love or hate it car. In the end there is a real valid reason the E46 M3 was discontinued and the new M3 was rolled out. Just like there is a reason my 135i will be outdone in a few years by the next 1 Series. Progress...BMW keeps moving forward.

again...just my 1 person opinion..I'm sure there are many others that will disagree.


I pretty much agree with what you said but I feel it's a toss up as far as a DD goes. I already have a track car, so ultimate performance isn't as big of a deal.

I have really given thought to trading my car in for the 135i not because of performance, but just because it's fun and new.

I don't think anyone would be unhappy in either car.

iunno i wuold be on the fence i guess it depends which one i could turbo easier

so e46 ftw

:confused...wtf the 135 already HAS turbos....doesnt get much easier to turbo than that :rofl

That being said, sure the 135 may be faster, but cmon, the e46 M3 is one of the greatest cars ever built. Period.

My local BMW had 4 135i's and a sea of 3's, all models. In person the 135i looks better than in the pics I thought, but nothing looks better than the 3 series coupe's, or the M3's. I have to like the looks of the car I am driving performance aside, that's a rule. I would buy a G37 before I'd get a 1. Come this January there will be a 3 in the driveway I have decided after the visit to the dealer.

I like the front end of the 135 but not so much after that. I haven't seen it in person though. It would be a tough decision for me between the 135 and the M. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

You guys with M3 are compared a modified car to a stock car. Not exactly apples to apples. Try that stock M3 suspension again, and you'll remember how beat up you'd be in it. The M3 would definitely be faster at the track with the LSD and than M engine. Not to mention it won't overheat (even with an oil cooler). But for daily daily driving, the low end torque of the N54 is pretty nice to have. Not to mention a few mods, and it'll really fly.

While i don't agree with the comparison, I must say it made me LOL!




The 1 series looks familiar

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/Ward-2-web.jpg http://www.roadfly.com/new-cars/wp-content/uploads/gallery/2008-bmw-135i-gotland-ring/bmw-135i-track.jpg

I like the performance, power to wt ratios, etc.. But, unfortunately, I think the price is too close to the 335, and, Im not nuts about its squat appearance at all.

I understand the nostalgia thing and the 2002tii throwback thing, but I bet if they made this car sleek, like the 335s or more so, it would be an awful lot more popular. Even so, I think its performance to price ratio will still manage to sell the car out .

Having driven both extensively, I would go 135i. The E46 M3 interior is not that great in my opinion and for day to day driving it becomes tiresome with the super harsh suspension and peaky engine. The old M3 has very good feel; however, the E36 M3 always seemed like the more enjoyable car. If you were going to keep either the 1 or the old E46 M3 as a track car then the M3 is, in that case, the obvious choice.

I'll take a 135i. Oh wait, I did.

135i - updated design, smaller, lighter. Yeah, the butt is kinda homely; but not all that bad. The front look is great, the side brings out how "chunky" the car looks; but still a good looker. The interior is nicely laid out and the controls are decent and easy to use. The idea of "decontenting one to the bare necessities is pretty cool, too. Pricewise, the E46 M3 is a good bargain now with the new M3 out. More maintenance is going to be required on all the E46 M3s vs less maintenance on the 135i. BMW has the right idea with the 135i: practical, fun to drive, low maintenance; but the price needs to be more inline with what the car is supposed to be all about: entry level. I guess the question is:" Which income group is BMW targeting?"

I like the 135, but man, the e46 Mer is just a gorgeous piece of machinery, have to give it the nod

dude same car, red and all. im getting the 135i, the C30 was cool for like a day. I went to the C30 forum, and the guys there were like fwd is the best, who needs awd(the evo x was happened to be the other car). These guys were actually trying to make arguments why the world shouldnt have anything else but fwd. i was like:confused

needless to say i left and havent been back since

iunno i wuold be on the fence i guess it depends which one i could turbo easier

so e46 ftw
:lol:help

bmw listed it as 5.5 0-60 but I would go with the specs you posted as they are more accurate in real world.

The fact is, those of us looking to buy a car now have the choice of buying a used M3 <and gawd only knows how it has been driven> or for about the same money get a brand new 135i with the next gen TT engine? The older M3's are great cars no doubt, but they are gone, and they ain't coming back. So all of the talk about just strolling out and finding a low miliage, great shape m3 for about the same price as you would pay for a new 135i is a waste.

Hell I would go out and buy a Porsche 914 2.0 if I could find a nice one, but it's not gonna happen. The 135i matches or exceeds the old M3 on almost every level, and it's new.

Honestly? If 135i is a spiritual successor to ANY bmw car I think it is the older M3's. Smaller, faster, lighter, better brakes and suspension...sound a lot like the m3. The new M3, while beautiful, is a hog. The 135i unchipped/remapped is only a fraction slower, gets much better MPG and is 20k less.

I believe the older M3 guys should stop raggin on the 135i and realize that this is the real M3 successor.

All this talk about warranty but you're going to put a chip in your car that voids that warranty?

Pick a side of the fence and stay on it.

All this talk about warranty but you're going to put a chip in your car that voids that warranty?

Pick a side of the fence and stay on it.



Installing a chip alone does not void your warranty. Only if the dealership can prove that the chip is what caused the failure! If your break lights stop working, it's not the chip's fault ;)

I love how people keep saying the 135i is over priced. It has a lot of bang for the buck, and I don't mean to sound like a dick but clearly some of your negotiation skills are terrible. I got mine for 38k. Got the dealer to throw in mats, wave all registration and dealer fees. If you play the game you can take pretty good chunks off the price of this car.

I'm selling my 06 M3 to buy a 135i if anyone is interested ;)

and if you have not driven the 135i, you are not qualified to talk shit about it. :)

After driving the 135i the other day I can say with certainty there's just no reason to buy an e46 m3 anymore.
:lol The E46 M3 is a far superior automobile, period. I drove a 135 last week, and I was unimpressed. The 135 is heavy, ugly, and doesn't handle well at all, compared to the M3. The dealership wanted $45K for the one I was going to order, I left the dealer in my M3 for a reason. Don't get me wrong, Im a fan of the new 1-series. But there's no way its better than an m3 IMO

bmw listed it as 5.5 0-60 but I would go with the specs you posted as they are more accurate in real world.

The fact is, those of us looking to buy a car now have the choice of buying a used M3 <and gawd only knows how it has been driven> or for about the same money get a brand new 135i with the next gen TT engine? The older M3's are great cars no doubt, but they are gone, and they ain't coming back. So all of the talk about just strolling out and finding a low miliage, great shape m3 for about the same price as you would pay for a new 135i is a waste.

Hell I would go out and buy a Porsche 914 2.0 if I could find a nice one, but it's not gonna happen. The 135i matches or exceeds the old M3 on almost every level, and it's new.

Honestly? If 135i is a spiritual successor to ANY bmw car I think it is the older M3's. Smaller, faster, lighter, better brakes and suspension...sound a lot like the m3. The new M3, while beautiful, is a hog. The 135i unchipped/remapped is only a fraction slower, gets much better MPG and is 20k less.

I believe the older M3 guys should stop raggin on the 135i and realize that this is the real M3 successor.
The 135 is not faster than an E46 M3, in any contest of speed. The brakes on the 1 series are incredible, but an M3 will outhandle and outrun a 135i and look good doing it. Low mileage M3's are readily available and most are still under full waranty. Also the new m3 is by far the best car in its class, and has one of the best motors the world has ever seen in a production car.

All this talk about warranty but you're going to put a chip in your car that voids that warranty?

Pick a side of the fence and stay on it.
Dinan will match the BMW warranty with its software

I'd like an e46 M3 with a 135i twin turbo engine.

Put $1000 in the 135i...bye bye M3.

Installing a chip alone does not void your warranty. Only if the dealership can prove that the chip is what caused the failure! If your break lights stop working, it's not the chip's fault ;)

Killmer... perhaps if you take it to court, your logic will hold up.. But that wont stop a dealer who, upon spotting your piggyback unit during a service appt to fix your exhaust which mysteriously blew a hole in a muffler or blew out a rusted weld, etc, from claiming your muffler was never meant to work with that after market software youre using and, you therefore, are automatically off warranty.. Many of them will claim this, and try to enforce it.. and unless youre willing to question it in court, most of the time, the dealer will prevail .. After all, you cant Make them service your car if youve modded the car. Dealer warranties are pretty clear on this kind of stuff.

Now, if youre literally talking about brake lights, Id have to agree with you. Any dealer who puts your car off warranty and makes such a note in their computer , forever after relgating that car to pay as you go basis will be in for one hell of a fight from anybody.. And that doesnt require court!! But as for any engine or drive train problems, I still believe most folks will be up the creek if the dealer spots the piggyback.

iunno i wuold be on the fence i guess it depends which one i could turbo easier

so e46 ftw


135 = already twin turbo

Anyone that ISN'T an enthusiast, would say the 135i is either ugly, or a girl car. My dad knows nothing about cars, and when i showed him it, he thought it was an "ugly baby bimmer." In fact, everyone that iv'e talked to about it thinks that. But it's probably because of where I live. Everyone here is pretty wealthy and will never buy an entry level car, aside from teenagers and enthusiasts such as myself.

the e46 M3 had a bad year with the piston rods. Kind of like how the E36 '95 M3s had weak valve retainers and oil pump nuts, but otherwise were solid. We know the flaws of the E46 M3, and we can inspect for them or avoid certain build dates. The 135i has the first generation of a turbo engine, something that BMW hasn't done in engines for 30 years except in diesels (eu). It is also the first year of the 1-series in its US clothing. I think we are looking at a lousy reliability pattern in the long term. Right now, I vote E46 M3 if given a proper inspection. In a couple years when BMW figures out their mistakes and sharpens the responses, the 135i will get my vote.

the e46 M3 had a bad year with the piston rods. Kind of like how the E36 '95 M3s had weak valve retainers and oil pump nuts, but otherwise were solid. We know the flaws of the E46 M3, and we can inspect for them or avoid certain build dates. The 135i has the first generation of a turbo engine, something that BMW hasn't done in engines for 30 years except in diesels (eu). It is also the first year of the 1-series in its US clothing. I think we are looking at a lousy reliability pattern in the long term. Right now, I vote E46 M3 if given a proper inspection. In a couple years when BMW figures out their mistakes and sharpens the responses, the 135i will get my vote.



ROFL!

You realize that our 135i's have the *same* engine that is in the 335i and 535i right? Go read their boards...how many "first generation" twin turbo problems do you see or have you seen over the last two years? This engine has won "Engine of the Year" 2 times! Virtually every article, review and track test I have read has said the same thing....This engine is going to go down as one of the best in history. It's that good. Long term reliability problems? LOL, sounds like someone is trying to convince themselves why they should hang on to their old M3. Which is a great car btw! I love the M3 line, even the new ones. However, after driving the 135i aggressively I can tell you....it is a freaking Rocket ship that will put your ass in the back seat. Flash the ECU up to 390 hp and well over 430ft/tq and...well I can't even imagine it. Although in...<looks at calender> about 5 weeks I will......

No offense taken - my M3 is old, I have driven the 135i and it is no contest (135i>e36 m3).

I can't say that I disagree about the engine - currently it has proven to be a worthy engine, perhaps with the exception of the single-oil-cooler issue on the early AT turbos.

What I am referring to is further down the road. Note that I said long term reliability issues. It is a great engine thus far, and what will convince me to buy one is if in a few years they are still flying around with 150k miles on them and few problems.

BMW always has some kind of a problem every time they introduce a new engine (timing case profile gasket M42, weak valve retainers S50, piston rods S54) even if it doesn't readily disclose itself. The timing case profile gaskets took 70k miles to fail, but every one of them did. If they manage to introduce something entirely new that ultimately is relatively trouble-free, I will be impressed and I will probably buy one.

However, if I were finishing school right now and had to choose, I would go post-2003 M3. They have proven themselves for 5+ years, and quality is of more importance to me than 4.6 vs 4.8 seconds to 60...

Now if only the E90 M3 sedan V8 has fewer cooling problems than the E39 5-series did... that's on my list.
And as for "engine of the year", I agree it's an exciting engine... but fyi a chevy tahoe hybrid won "green car of the year".... awards are sort of bs.

135i definitely. NEW daily driver. TORQUE BABY TORQUE.

135:buttrock

July delivery:( Delayed gratification sucks.

One of my buddies has a 135i and he races an e36 m3 and got beat but not by too much he said. I wasnt there so I didnt witness what was done to the e46 m3 either. On the other hand I have had people tell me he cannot drive possibly. From what i have seen it would be hard to drive poorly bc he has an automatic/paddle shift. He also ran a 13.38 1/4 mile in the 135.

If pricing was not an issue, I would rather have a 135i. Just because it *probably* does not have the high maintanence costs of the M3 and is still under the maintanence free plan. However, all of that for 45K when I can pickup a slightly used 335 or a used M3 that has a CPO and maintanence plan for under 40K, it is not worth it to me.

I think the 135 should have been priced at least 5k lower. Take out some of those options like leather, sunroof, etc.

I drove the 135 today. A great car, but it didnt live up to all the hype. It is still slower and much heavier than my mcoupe.

I'd still consider one if I was looking for a daily driver, but not as a M replacement.

135i vs. M3

So let just get right down to it. Everyone is talking Price; well here it is a 135i base model with a 6 speed bland and leatherette interior for $32,000 asking price from BMW but almost no one except me buys a base model these days. The M3 (E46) with 20-30 thou miles is roughly around 25k with a bit of a warranty still left if u get it from a dealer private party you can pick one up semi well equipped for around 23,500. That is almost 10g difference. The E46 holds its value very well for an ageing car. How well will the 135i hold up? I mean once you drive it off the lot it loses value right then, would you rather another guy take that hit in cost? (Lets face it if cost was no object people would buy an E46 and SC it etc or buy a newer M3.) However in the real world you make a buy around a budget and go with it.

So the E46 would be the better buy for price if you have service records for the car. You get a raggedly driven car and you get junk so buyer beware. Where a 135i is fresh off the truck you pay book for it but you get a warranty so if something happens to it whatever it it’s the dealer’s problem now.

Now as far as performance everyone keeps spitting up numbers for the cars. How many of you out there drive a manual car these days? I know when I went to look for my M it was a needled in a haystack due to limited manual drivers. So the specs will be a driver’s race for the faster car. If you drive a Manual then yes the 135i is a smig faster. But nothing to write home to mom about.

Now on to Engines. The E46 has one of the best motors ever produced by BMW. The 135i’s motor is still a work in progress. Yes I know the M3 is rather expensive to work on but come on a BMW twin turbo motor you don’t think that is going to be costly as hell. Think of replacement turbo's between 70-90 thou miles which is where most turbo's go up. Then think of buying a turbo timer so you don’t have to sit and wait in the car for it too cool down. Just necessity items is the issues right now I am not talking about boost controllers, ECU upgrades Chips injectors etc. Because that is another beast for another day.

Now back to the topic at hand so you have a little more power out of the E46 with a little less bite off the line compared to the 135i, but when you are rolling though the turns the E46 will let you know it is King of the Road. And the //M package means it will hold to the road like the lines painted on it. The 135i that I personally drove handled a little better then my buddy’s 2003 330Ci which I have to say is impressive as it may but it is no M sports car. (If they offer another package in suspension like predicted in the coming years it will rival the M3 and possibly destroy it, but that will come with a hell of a cost I bet).

The lack of the Limited slip does cause a bit of an issue for me since I really like to open the car up take off the DSC and let it go till I feel like my car is about to slip away and just at the last second pull through. You could buy one aftermarket for about 3g for the 135i (probably) and installation (the cost of installation) which probably voids your warrant for you power Tran. After all is that not half the reason to get a brand new car?
(For that money I could buy a SC kit with low psi for the M3. and still save on the cost of the car.)

Now looks on the inside of the car I will say the Dash gauges are kind of cool on the 135i. But the interior is plain for such a new expensive car compared to other 2008+. But the E46 is kind of old looking so it’s really just a matter of steering feel inside the car and seat position. (To bad BMW did not give the interior a face lift, I like it but it’s not to flashy compared to other auto’s)

Most E46 M3 aftermarket parts are coming down in price due to the release of the newer M3 2008 and up. Yes some of the aftermarket 335i parts fit on the 135i which could save a dime or two. But at this point what shop will work on that new of a car as to not void the warrantee, (the Stealer ship?)

So when it comes down to it the 135i is a remarkable car to drive, priced Fair compared to other new cars with in the same class and power. But if you’re looking to save some coin let the other guy take the hit for now or let it sit on the lot for a year and then pick one up. If you have to have the 135i like I thought I did before I drove it go get you one you won’t be sorry.

But as you can probably tell it did not wow me enough to make me buy the car brand new, I went with an 05 E46 6 speed manual (rims already on it aftermarket) Chipped and tuned for $24,500 with 22,000 miles on her, however I have just the standard package in the car pretty basic I do say so.

One last thought a 135i is better for performance then the 335i due to the weight issue, so if you don’t want an older car and you don’t have the reason for a larger vehicle, and most importantly don’t want to fork out that Extra Cash get a 135i~ in a few years I may own one to.

Wow, this is more like 20$ not 2 cents unless inflation in the US is much worse than we hear about ;). Good writeup though.

135i vs. M3


But as you can probably tell it did not wow me enough to make me buy the car brand new, I went with an 05 E46 6 speed manual (rims already on it aftermarket) Chipped and tuned for $24,500 with 22,000 miles on her, however I have just the standard package in the car pretty basic I do say so.

Great write up!

I am curious to know how you found an M3, that year, low miles for that price? Can you point me in the right direction? I would have emailed you but you dont have the option available. Send me an email please.

Great write up!

I am curious to know how you found an M3, that year, low miles for that price? Can you point me in the right direction? I would have emailed you but you dont have the option available. Send me an email please.

It is easy to get an M3 like he mentioned above for $24k. Just go find a nice salvage title car :D

What he listed should be at least $10k higher in my opinion?

iunno i wuold be on the fence i guess it depends which one i could turbo easier

so e46 ftw
uhh you are aware that the 135 is already a twin turbo:confused

uhh you are aware that the 135 is already a twin turbo:confused

Guess not.

One thing no one really mentioned is exclusivity. I mean, the 1-Series is really rare. I like that about it above all the numbers and $$. M's have been around for a long time. But for the pure enthusiast looking for best bang for buck yeah you have to weigh all the options carefully. Also, what do people prioritize more - is it pure performance or do they want some streetability?

Guess not.

One thing no one really mentioned is exclusivity. I mean, the 1-Series is really rare. I like that about it above all the numbers and $$. M's have been around for a long time. But for the pure enthusiast looking for best bang for buck yeah you have to weigh all the options carefully. Also, what do people prioritize more - is it pure performance or do they want some streetability?
Exclusivity and "pure enthusiast" are mutually exclusive terms.

iunno i wuold be on the fence i guess it depends which one i could turbo easier

so e46 ftw

ROFLMAO.... best post of '08 so far!

I was torn between getting a newer E46M3 and the 135i, but after driving the 135i I couldn't see getting a 05 E46M3 for a few grand less with only a little warrenty left and not knowing how hard it had been driven. So I went and ordered a 135 and got it at $1000 above retail. I only added Sport and USB/iPod for options. I know that the M3 is a superior car overall - in terms of how it handles, but the quickness and pure speed of the 135 won me over, not to mention the warrenty and the ability to have it CPOed before the warrenty runs out. And yes, I know how expensive it is to do that but it's totally worth it.

as it said before, 135i has a much higher potential out of the box. Also looking at some posts regarding suspension, do people not realize that 135i's suspension is actually better than e46 M3's? not only that, comparing stuck suspension is also dumb, most people on here dump the stock suspension anyway. So retrofit both cars with same exact suspension, 135i will own e46 m3. Heck, even 330i ZHP suspension is better than pre-ZCP packaged M3s.

after reading above writeup, i should also add that the price of a e46 m3 is driven down right now by 335. People will spend more or same amount of money on a 335 because its newer and can be easily made faster. As far as "oh e46 m3 has lsd...." argument, sure 335 doesnt have LSD, but DSC is very effective on the street otherwise BMW would've ditched it a long time ago.

...do people not realize that 135i's suspension is actually better than e46 M3's?Disagree. The 135's suspension is softer than the E46 M3's, with (IMO) less rebound damping, leading to less body control during bumpy medium-to-high speed sweepers. Also, it is more prone to understeer at the limits of adhesion, more so than in a stock E46 M3. On the other hand, the 135's shorter wheelbase means the 135i turns in and rotates a little more readily than the E46 M3. Both have quite neutral handling below the limits of adhesion.

As far as "oh e46 m3 has lsd...." argument, sure 335 doesnt have LSD, but DSC is very effective on the street otherwise BMW would've ditched it a long time ago.DSC is not, and has never been, a substitute for an LSD. Now you can say DSC enables the 135's eLSD function, and it does, but the eLSD is nowhere near as effective as the E46 M3's Variable M Differential Lock.

Have you M guys even driven a 335? It has full torque from the second you put your foot on the gas basically. There very fun cars due to that. At higher speeds they drive very smooth and shift so smooth. I mainly like having all my torque down low. I mean after all if your flooring it from a stop you want to take off right? .The car just has a really good super fast feel , they're handling seems excellent. The old m3 was a insaine car. I think that the 335 is new technology and way more fun. Definently a very good investment.

Enough talk about suspension differences; who here really plans on keeping their M or 135 suspension stock? I know it's one of the first "mods" I plan on doing to my 135 when I get her; that and getting rid of the RFTs. But maybe that's just me?

E46 M3 here

All this talk about warranty but you're going to put a chip in your car that voids that warranty?

Pick a side of the fence and stay on it.

Thanks for embarrassing Canada.....

Disagree. The 135's suspension is softer than the E46 M3's, with (IMO) less rebound damping, leading to less body control during bumpy medium-to-high speed sweepers. Also, it is more prone to understeer at the limits of adhesion, more so than in a stock E46 M3. On the other hand, the 135's shorter wheelbase means the 135i turns in and rotates a little more readily than the E46 M3. Both have quite neutral handling below the limits of adhesion.

DSC is not, and has never been, a substitute for an LSD. Now you can say DSC enables the 135's eLSD function, and it does, but the eLSD is nowhere near as effective as the E46 M3's Variable M Differential Lock.

if you re-read my post again you will understand that i was not pointing out the shocks, thats why i also noted that people will never keep their cars stock, and will opt for adjustable suspension.

What I meant to say is that 135i's suspension technology is far more advanced than e46's.

if you re-read my post again you will understand that i was not pointing out the shocks, thats why i also noted that people will never keep their cars stock, and will opt for adjustable suspension.

What I meant to say is that 135i's suspension technology is far more advanced than e46's.
Only a small minority of enthusiasts ever change their stock suspension and with leasing becoming more and more popular, that percentage may also be dropping. Not against it, just saying in the end enthusiasts are a very small percentage of the buying masses esp. when BMW is concerned.

What I meant to say is that 135i's suspension technology is far more advanced than e46's.The design may very well be more advanced, but tuned as they are from the factory, the fact remains that the 135's suspension is softer and has lower limits than the E46 M3's, IMO.

I don't deal with hypothetical mods because given enough money, you can mod pretty much anything to outperform something else.

Some of you guys are crazy. Drove next to it and it looks very hot, especially in white.

I also drove the car and loved it. It'd definately be a kickass daily and has just enough power to keep you happy in stock form. As far as handeling, my E30 handles better, but that's mainly going to be because of the understeer BMW's now builds into the stock suspension and crappy OE, staggered tires.