Just wondering how people feel about this...

I know back in the eighties a BMW was considered a status symbol..a measure of success! Yuppies & Bimmers...symbols of the age..

I don't think that's the case so much these days..I think they are more highly regarded for performance and sheer driving excitement..at least that was the motivating factor that influenced my decision...

no

Yes. They are most definitely status symbols and they are still the #1 choice for yuppies all across America.

It is a premium brand with cache but a 3 series is a $35,000-$50,000 car, not a $80,000-$100,000 or more car.

It is a status symbol to the guy driving the eight year old Civic who just dinged your door on purpose.

It is a status symbol to the guy driving the eight year old Civic who just dinged your door on purpose.


Newsflash: most of the country is driving Civics, Altimas, etc. as the average price paid for a new car in this country is about $22,000, last I checked. That's about half of a 335, and that's not counting many people who buy used Japanese crapboxes. Of course, it's an average and, to a huge extent, it's regional.

What status? if it is the "full of one's self" status or "thinks a car can make a better person" status, I hope not, I don't want to be labeled as such. It is just a car dude, maybe more expensive than some others, but that's it. There are other cars more expensive than it. Material things are not what gives people status, it is their actions, but that's just my humble opinion.

Newsflash: most of the country is driving Civics, Altimas, etc. as the average price paid for a new car in this country is about $22,000, last I checked. That's about half of a 335, and that's not counting many people who buy used Japanese crapboxes. Of course, it's an average and, to a huge extent, it's regional.

Newsflash: I think the subtle point of my post is that it might depend on your frame of reference. Where I live, work and am usually found, 3 series are pretty common along with lots of other expensive cars. The status symbols are the 7, S Class, A8, that big fat Lexus, and all the usual sports cars.

Yes. They are most definitely status symbols and they are still the #1 choice for yuppies all across America.

+1. MOST OF THE OWNERS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE DRIVING PLEASURE AND PERFORMANCE OF THESE CARS. THEY USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE AS TO WHY THEY BOUGHT IT, SO THEY DON'T SOUND LIKE AN ELITIST (SP). MOST OF THE PEOPLE HERE ON THE BOARD ARE ENTHUSIASTS. BUT MOST OF THE OWNERS ARE NOT. SPEND A DAY IN A DEALERSHIP. YOU WILL FEEL MY PAIN.

What status? if it is the "full of one's self" status or "thinks a car can make a better person" status, I hope not, I don't want to be labeled as such. It is just a car dude, maybe more expensive than some others, but that's it. There are other cars more expensive than it. Material things are not what gives people status, it is their actions, but that's just my humble opinion.

AND NOT WHAT THE QUESTION ASKS. IT'S WHAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC DISCTATES IS WHAT DETERMINES THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.

Newsflash: I think the subtle point of my post is that it might depend on your frame of reference. Where I live, work and am usually found, 3 series are pretty common along with lots of other expensive cars. The status symbols are the 7, S Class, A8, that big fat Lexus, and all the usual sports cars.

YEA, THE QUESTION WAS NOT SPECIFIC ENOUGH.

What are Japanese crapboxes?

What are Japanese crapboxes?

READ: SEE YOUR PROFILE

:eyecrazy

It is a premium brand with cache but a 3 series is a $35,000-$50,000 car, not a $80,000-$100,000 or more car.

It is a status symbol to the guy driving the eight year old Civic who just dinged your door on purpose.

It's a premium brand without a doubt..

Heck..the car feels solid compared to the Camry I was driving previously..

I don't consider myself someone who "buys" something to impress or be pretentious..I am a diehard enthusiast who has been around BMWs (mainly friends and relatives..) and know how solidly built these cars are and the reputation of their engines. But I do remember the days when BMWers were
all the rage among the the many "movers & shakers" climbing the ladder in corporate America in their Armani suits and Polo shirts..shades of AG..who can forget the image of Richard Gere cruising Hwy 1 in a BMW convertible...decked out in his Armani duds..

I know that image did a lot for BMW sales I'm sure...

shades of AG..who can forget the image of Richard Gere cruising Hwy 1 in a BMW convertible...decked out in his Armani duds..

I know that image did a lot for BMW sales I'm sure...

Ummm .... Richard Gere, as Julian Kaye, was driving a black Mercedes 450 SL in American Gigolo. And as a result, sales did in fact jump quite a bit, remarkable for a car that had a sticker price of $49,000 in 1980 dollars.

Ummm .... Richard Gere, as Julian Kaye, was driving a black Mercedes 450 SL in American Gigolo. And as a result, sales did, in fact, jump quite a bit, for a car that had a sticker price of $49,000 in 1980 dollars.

Hmmmm..thanks for correcting me...

I knew it was either a BMW or Mercedes..geez it's been so long since I've seen that film..

His Armani duds were the rage though!

Must be a US thing then. I've been in parts of the world where most everyone drives BMW or MB, and no it's not Germany. The reason is not status or showing off, although I am sure some buy them for that reason, the main reason is that they last forever under the most severe punishment. 20+ year old BMWs or MBs are not uncommon.

Newsflash: I think the subtle point of my post is that it might depend on your frame of reference. Where I live, work and am usually found, 3 series are pretty common along with lots of other expensive cars. The status symbols are the 7, S Class, A8, that big fat Lexus, and all the usual sports cars.

Of course it depends on your frame of reference and, like I said, your area. If you live in Hollywood Hills, your E90 is equivalent to a Civic. If you drive through North Philly, you're more likely to get carjacked than anything. :stickoutt

It's all relative, though. Sure, if you see an E90 side by side with an E66, which are you going to be more impressed with? But if you see an E90 in the middle of a traffic jam with a bunch of Sentras, Accords, and Tauruses...

I think its still a status symbol and regarded for performance.

Personally I don't. 3 series falls under the entry level luxo category

I don't......but it is interesting how friends treat you different when you get one!! Seems like they consider it a status symbol.

Where you been that everybody drives BMWs or MB? The factory? I haven't been everywhere but I've been to plenty of countries and there isn't a place in the world that "most people drive" either. Most people drive an old used car. The only place I seen most people driving MB was in Germany...and the cabs. They are still very expensive and realistically WAY more expensive in most every part of the world. YEs they do make ECONO BMW/MB but lets be real.

Most people want a BMW because they saw somebody that has more money than average driving it. If you feel for the BMW marketing team *myrakan* about driving machine you're sort of lying.

Even "enthusiasts' liked the car for it's image before driving one.

try manhattan

No way, at least not here in Austin, maybe in some parts of town. I see at least a couple hundred 3 series everyday. I've mentioned before that you can't pull up to a stop light without 4 or 5 other 3series at the light with you and that's at every light. I rode to work this morning with a 335 coupe right beside me and another 3 cars ahead of us. The shear number of 323, 325, 328, 330's is crazy on the highway in the morning. I see a ton of 5 series as well. A 750 might get you some status play, but that's based on the price. A $50K car is in no way a status symbol, it's a average price vehicle. Most of the Tahoes on the road cost more than your 3 series.

Not directed towards anyone on this thread. But fed up with people buying a bimmer for status. And it being associated with status. There are plenty of other entry-luxury european cars, the A4, the C Class, etc. I got an e90 for the driving experience. IMO, thats what people should experience. Take a test drive. IF they like the experience, get it, if not, move on to the next car.

Most of the Tahoes on the road cost more than your 3 series.

I agree.

Regarding Japanese cars, last I checked they either come close, match, or beat anything comparable coming out of Europe, for a lot less $$$:

G37 vs. 335
or
GT-R vs. M3 vs. GT-3

If someone is looking for value and reliability there's nothing better than a Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, etc. But some people simply prefer giving up some things like extra standard features (for the money), or long-term reliability, for a bit (or in some cases a lot) better performance.

A BMW is definitely a premium car, but those buying it as a status symbol are just plain mistaken. You would have to do a lot better than that to impress.

Not directed towards anyone on this thread. But fed up with people buying a bimmer for status. And it being associated with status. There are plenty of other entry-luxury european cars, the A4, the C Class, etc. I got an e90 for the driving experience. IMO, thats what people should experience. Take a test drive. IF they like the experience, get it, if not, move on to the next car.

Well put.

What are Japanese crapboxes?

READ: SEE YOUR PROFILE

:eyecrazy

Wow, I find most of your posts annoying but this one made me laugh out loud.

That's great. Make fun of the guy that can't afford to buy a BMW.

Oh wait...if I sell my TL I can buy 3 old-ass BMW's.

SWEET!!!

;-)

That's great. Make fun of the guy that can't afford to buy a BMW.

Oh wait...if I sell my TL I can buy 3 old-ass BMW's.

SWEET!!!

;-)

Yeah, wtf is your point? I can sell my M3 and buy 20 old Acuras.

It's all in good fun. :wink:

BTW, congrats on the M3.

Hmmm, generally speaking I would consider a BMW a status symbol, but not anymore because the criteria for buying has greatly changed.

No longer do you need a wad of disposable cash to buy one. Now two factors have largely reduced the "status" of BMW.

1. Leases. Companies learned that they making a killing on these, and they're a lot easier to get into than come up with a wad of cash.

2. 2nd or re-mortgages. This is crazy popular here in CA. Property values doubled in many areas and even quadrupled in some over the last 4 years. Lots of people borrowed against the increased value of their homes and bought expensive cars. Many people are regretting that right now because property values decreased in a number of areas this year flipping them upside-down (i.e. owe more than they are "worth")

So... because of this, a BMW is not a huge status symbol because there are more creative ways to get one without being able to "afford" it.

Now that's not to mean they're not awesome. They're still sweet cars and hold more status over, say, a "Camry".

I'd put the 3er in "Yuppie/Yuppie-wanna-be" territory, but definately not "Banker/Banker-wanna-be" or "Successful business man/Successful business man-wanna-be" territory... that's what the 7 series would have been for... but those have the same problems with accessibility that I mentioned above.

Unfortunately, I would have to say that it still is based on the following...

I always hate it when people ask what I drive and I sometimes lie about it because of the reaction I get. If you tell someone you drive a Honda, you will get "oh, nice car" or something like that. Even though I never bring it up and always down play it, I get things like "Must be nice", or "good to own your own company", or my absolute pet peeve is "I wish I were single so I could drive a BMW too". Which is really annoying coming from Dual income, no kids couples who I know together make more than I do.

It's all in good fun. :wink:

BTW, congrats on the M3.

;)

Where you been that everybody drives BMWs or MB? The factory? I haven't been everywhere but I've been to plenty of countries and there isn't a place in the world that "most people drive" either. Most people drive an old used car. The only place I seen most people driving MB was in Germany...and the cabs. They are still very expensive and realistically WAY more expensive in most every part of the world. YEs they do make ECONO BMW/MB but lets be real.

Most people want a BMW because they saw somebody that has more money than average driving it. If you feel for the BMW marketing team *myrakan* about driving machine you're sort of lying.

Even "enthusiasts' liked the car for it's image before driving one.
I didn't say brand new :D and I didn't say everyone. I am not making it up, they are just popular for their longevity. And yeah, they use MB as cabs, not brand new though. Where do you think all those old BMW/MB end up, no in the junk yard if that is what you though, they get shipped overseas. There is a huge export industry of used cars in Germany, and it is sizeable in North America too. My brother and his boss are into buying used cars and shipping them overseas, legally of course. I know people who make minimum wage and drive BMWs, the world is full of wonders outside of the US of A, you just need to open your eyes ;).

Unfortunately, I would have to say that it still is based on the following...

I always hate it when people ask what I drive and I sometimes lie about it because of the reaction I get. If you tell someone you drive a Honda, you will get "oh, nice car" or something like that. Even though I never bring it up and always down play it, I get things like "Must be nice", or "good to own your own company", or my absolute pet peeve is "I wish I were single so I could drive a BMW too". Which is really annoying coming from Dual income, no kids couples who I know together make more than I do.
haha, if someone tells me that I just tell them that I make less than them, with a single income household, 2 kids and parents whom I help support financially and let their heads spin :eyecrazy. Seriously people who think BMW is a rich man's car are just ignorant. I used to get WOWs from people who saw my e36 318ti hatchback saying it must be 40-50K, and I used to respond it is cheaper than your Honda.

Unfortunately, I would have to say that it still is based on the following...

I always hate it when people ask what I drive and I sometimes lie about it because of the reaction I get. If you tell someone you drive a Honda, you will get "oh, nice car" or something like that. Even though I never bring it up and always down play it, I get things like "Must be nice", or "good to own your own company", or my absolute pet peeve is "I wish I were single so I could drive a BMW too". Which is really annoying coming from Dual income, no kids couples who I know together make more than I do.

This is not because he's poor, but because his wife is being a buzz-kill and won't let him buy a BMW. He didn't say he wishes he was single to be able to afford one... but to so he could drive one! :D

Yes. Some people out there are purchasing BMW's as a status symbol. Mainly they are buying middle class 3 series and used 5 series. It is the most affordable nice car they can get their hands on.

Obviously by looking at my stable of cars you can see what I purchase BMW's for :D

haha, if someone tells me that I just tell them that I make less than them, with a single income household, 2 kids and parents whom I help support financially and let their heads spin . Seriously people who think BMW is a rich man's car are just ignorant. I used to get WOWs from people who saw my e36 318ti hatchback saying it must be 40-50K, and I used to respond it is cheaper than your Honda.

Yeah I hear you. There are so many people who have no ability to budget and nickle and dime themselves to death. They assume that everyone else does the same and therefore, if you have something they don't...you must be rich!!

This is not because he's poor, but because his wife is being a buzz-kill and won't let him buy a BMW. He didn't say he wishes he was single to be able to afford one... but to so he could drive one!

+1. Very funny. Although, in some cases they do say that they can't afford one because they are married. (The response I would like to say is "how much does your wife eat???)

+1. Very funny. Although, in some cases they do say that they can't afford one because they are married. (The response I would like to say is "how much does your wife eat???)

LOL ow :)

+1. Very funny. Although, in some cases they do say that they can't afford one because they are married. (The response I would like to say is "how much does your wife eat???)
jokes aside and not that I agree with what they say, but I assume you are not married. Women have a talent of spending money, ask nm335, but I digress.

FWIW, this woman just spent her $ on a new e92!!! Much more fun than a new outfit...

Definitely relative. In Vegas, San Diego or Orange County, definitely blends in. (Hint: the world's #1 selling Maibach dealership is in Vegas). In Cletus Poteat, North Carolina, it definitely sticks out.

The sad part is there are probably 3 or 4 badge buyers out there for every enthusiast. And that is after you take out the SUV category (which is probably 90% badge buyers). Oh well, at least they put a larger number of post-lease used cars out there that are more affordable for enthusiasts that can't or don't want to spring for new, so there is a silver lining.

I think it's pretty obvious: it's all relative.

In high school, when I didn't have a car, I thought the guy with the Z28 looked pretty cool.

In college, when I bought a Z28, I thought the guy with with the 330 looked pretty cool.

Now that I've bought a 335, 4 years after graduation, I think the guy with the 911 Turbo looks pretty cool.

In short, status is a value that varies with age, income, and taste. What may have been a status symbol to you when you were younger and poorer might be tasteless to you now.

Drive down the street of a middle-class town with a 3, you might look pretty slick. Drive down Rodeo Drive, not so much.

Funny..as I was driving in to work today I saw several E90s on the road..I guess I never noticed as many in the past..but one thing is for sure they sure stand out among the Toyotas, Fords, Nissans..etc...

a 3-series BMW is no status symbol but it does show an appreciation for fine automobiles. a Bentley GT or the like is a status symbol. when you can buy a car in the $200k range for cash then you have achieved some status. status symbols are never financed.

a 3-series BMW is no status symbol but it does show an appreciation for fine automobiles. a Bentley GT or the like is a status symbol. when you can buy a car in the $200k range for cash then you have achieved some status. status symbols are never financed.

I like your comment "an appreciation for fine automobiles"...I think that's the reason why most of us drive them..

status symbols are never financed.

I disagree, as a previous poster mentioned, many Americans over the past 10 years have used the housing boom as an opportunity to get themselves in over their heads keeping up with the jones' by buying more expensive cars. They should be buying a Honda Civic but they buy a 5-series because some stupid person told them it was a good idea to make the payment using the proceeds from a home equity loan. Sorry to say, but I have no sympathy for that and their own desire for "status" is what caused it. Now they're upside down on their houses because the market is collapsing so you'll see some of those cars get sold as well. It's called a market correction.

They are still status symbols. But status symbols are relative to one's area. Example: Around here there are tons of Acura TLs and not that many 3 series. Dumping the Acura and getting a 3 is still seen as a status bump around here. Back in my hometown, where even my TL was uber rare, a 3 series is going to turn a lot of heads. Driving through there I only saw 1 BMW 3 series and it was a 2000ish model. I never saw a current gen TL either. So your status around that area is a very successful person. But if I were to go to Irvine California, where my head office is, 3 series BMWs are fairly common your status is seen as a successful guy but a pretty average successful guy, nothing out of the ordinary. One thing I do know is that when my mom (72 years old) learned I was getting a 328i, she "lit up" and insisted I take her out for a spin once I get the car. My ex GF suddenly started flirting with me again when my best friend told her about the new car I'm getting (big mouth), my currrent GFs (yes.. plural as in more than one) are a bit more interested once they know my TL is going to be replaced by a 328i. One of which was browsing through the pics on my point and shoot digital camera and came across my car's pics at the dealership and inquired about them. Why? Well... it's not the car itself. Women don't give a rats ass about cars, performance, handling or any of that. It's the status message conveyed by having a BMW. Women like successful men and BMW, as a status symbol, only helps to convey success. Don't believe me? Try to date a hot woman as your driving a 3 series and then tell her your next car will be a Kia Rio instead. See how she reacts. I "tested" this on one woman while in my TL: "I like this car (TL) but I'm going to get a Kia Rio next instead and save some bucks". Instant disinterest indicator right in the car; crossing her left leg over her right leg and pointing her body away from me. Never heard from her again. That's ok, she's just one of many anyway.

Zeuser, I know what you mean. There are no shortages of Acuras and Lexuses in the Toronto area (mainly because of the Asian population). The one place where Bimmers particularly 3 series thrive is in Richmond Hill

There are TONS of 3 series around Boston area. IMO there are also alot of 3 series drivers who drive them because they think they are cool/trendy (dont appreciate them for what they are). This dissapoints me. People should enjoy the car for what it is, a great driving experience.

Regarding the BMW being a chick magnet: IMO a girl should like you for who you are, not what your car is.

status symbols are never financed.

Who decreed that? :rolleyes

They are still status symbols. But status symbols are relative to one's area. Example: Around here there are tons of Acura TLs and not that many 3 series. Dumping the Acura and getting a 3 is still seen as a status bump around here. Back in my hometown, where even my TL was uber rare, a 3 series is going to turn a lot of heads. Driving through there I only saw 1 BMW 3 series and it was a 2000ish model. I never saw a current gen TL either. So your status around that area is a very successful person. But if I were to go to Irvine California, where my head office is, 3 series BMWs are fairly common your status is seen as a successful guy but a pretty average successful guy, nothing out of the ordinary. One thing I do know is that when my mom (72 years old) learned I was getting a 328i, she "lit up" and insisted I take her out for a spin once I get the car. My ex GF suddenly started flirting with me again when my best friend told her about the new car I'm getting (big mouth), my currrent GFs (yes.. plural as in more than one) are a bit more interested once they know my TL is going to be replaced by a 328i. One of which was browsing through the pics on my point and shoot digital camera and came across my car's pics at the dealership and inquired about them. Why? Well... it's not the car itself. Women don't give a rats ass about cars, performance, handling or any of that. It's the status message conveyed by having a BMW. Women like successful men and BMW, as a status symbol, only helps to convey success. Don't believe me? Try to date a hot woman as your driving a 3 series and then tell her your next car will be a Kia Rio instead. See how she reacts. I "tested" this on one woman while in my TL: "I like this car (TL) but I'm going to get a Kia Rio next instead and save some bucks". Instant disinterest indicator right in the car; crossing her left leg over her right leg and pointing her body away from me. Never heard from her again. That's ok, she's just one of many anyway.

That's exactly right: it's all relative.

And your post intrigued me in that you state you have several girlfriends. How does that work? :confused Is one purely for hooking up with?

There are TONS of 3 series around Boston area. IMO there are also alot of 3 series drivers who drive them because they think they are cool/trendy (dont appreciate them for what they are). This dissapoints me. People should enjoy the car for what it is, a great driving experience.

Regarding the BMW being a chick magnet: IMO a girl should like you for who you are, not what your car is.

See the two bolded instances in your post. There is a clear distinction between what should (in your opinion) be and what is. This thread was what is, not what should be. And the fact of the matter is, many people are badge whores and buy BMWs just because they have the roundel on them and all the egotistical things that go with it as well as the fact that they're just nice cars. If Hyundai, or even Honda, made a RWD car that performed identically and had an identical interior to a BMW, with greater reliability, what percentage of the people that currently buy E90s/E92s in America would buy those instead? I'd venture to say very few.

Also, to address how girls should view one, that's too true... but it seems there is a shortage of girls who can see past that initially.

There are TONS of 3 series around Boston area. IMO there are also alot of 3 series drivers who drive them because they think they are cool/trendy (dont appreciate them for what they are). This dissapoints me. People should enjoy the car for what it is, a great driving experience.

Regarding the BMW being a chick magnet: IMO a girl should like you for who you are, not what your car is.

Unless she's uber hot and not very smart. Then it's fine, you don't want her knowing who you are anyway.

Most of these comments sort of add to the "BMW people are pricks" telling people they bought a car for the wrong reason...is pretty dicky.

Some people weigh cost/use/performance and come in with a different set of priority in cars.

I can say that I still think my 350Z was the best performance per dollar car and fun factor that I've owned. 15K cheaper, fast, good looking, handled well...

I like my 335 a lot, but I won't tell people because they bought a BMW because of it's "status" they are stupid. I'd say 99% of people do...and I've read many comments about people saying they think another car is good and the reply is "it's not a BMW"

We have really nice cars :)

Most of these comments sort of add to the "BMW people are pricks" telling people they bought a car for the wrong reason...is pretty dicky.

Some people weigh cost/use/performance and come in with a different set of priority in cars.

I can say that I still think my 350Z was the best performance per dollar car and fun factor that I've owned. 15K cheaper, fast, good looking, handled well...

I like my 335 a lot, but I won't tell people because they bought a BMW because of it's "status" they are stupid. I'd say 99% of people do...and I've read many comments about people saying they think another car is good and the reply is "it's not a BMW"

We have really nice cars :)

Yeah..I have to agree...we do have nice cars..hell since I got mine I've been buying issues of Bimmer most every month...I should just go ahead and subscribe..the articles are really interesting...especially the stories of those who have done so much work on their cars that make them so unique..

Heck some of you might even frequent this forum!

MODERATOR NOTE:
Since we have some (very few) female members, let's try not to offend them while posting our opinions on this matter. Just wanted to bring it to everyone's attention.

[quote=ohnoes;12344870]Who decreed that?



That's exactly right: it's all relative.

And your post intrigued me in that you state you have several girlfriends. How does that work? Is one purely for hooking up with?
I just can't settle yet. So I'm going out with multiple girls all at once and I'll see what happens. It's like buying a car, you test drive a few different models until you decide on what you really want, for whatever reason that may be. So in a way, I'm still looking for the girl that will be my 3 series. Oh and girls don't date guys for their cars. But having a 3 series does help a bit because it conveys success and that's really what they're after. Speaking of which, my #1 pick (gf) made me stop by the BMW dealership so I could show her my car in the back lot. I found it easy enough, it's a bit unique compared to the rest in the lot. We took pictures, went inside for a coffee and she pointed at the 650i convertible and said: "I really like this one!". I responded: "I thought you said you were low maintenance?" as I'm pointing at the price tag. She punches me in the arm and throws a big smile. It's playful humor, girls love that. Hint: A girl punching you in the arm is actually saying "I find you fun and I'm attracted to you!"

MSN.com put an article on stating what your car says about you. They said a BMW is a person trying to tell you that he/ she is better than you.... OUCH.
I disagree with that statement if it's a status thing. On the track, well, that can be another story. The BS stops when the green flag drops, and we'll see what we see. I think it's a performer for a sedan/ coupe made for auto enthusiasts. It has more personality than a Lexus and typically beats out the Mercedes (performance wise) in it's respective class. Mercedes is a Status symbol, like Bentley, Rolls Royce, Audi or Cadillac. I would say it speaks to a niche of people like a Porsche, Corvette, and Jaguar do. It backs up its badge with performance.
Let the blood bath commence with this statement, ha ha.

To answer your question: No, 3-series are a dime a dozen. But it's a great car.

To correct another poster, it isn't a 35-50k car, it is a 35k-60k USD car.

A

When did this become dating service or relationship advice forum. Please keep it on topic or take it to the "off topic" section or I'll have to start moving posts.

To answer your question: No, 3-series are a dime a dozen. But it's a great car.

To correct another poster, it isn't a 35-50k car, it is a 35k-60k USD car.

A

With the convertible, you can surpass the $60k mark quite easily.

I'm at about $56.4k out the door on my E93 328 and I only got a $1200 discount and didn't buy near all the options.

Upgrade to an E93 335, throw in the options I didn't get (PDC, active steer, active cruise, sports pkg, cold weather, prem sound, hd radio, xm, probably missing more stuff) and you'll be a tad past the $70k mark out the door if I did my guestimation correctly.

With the convertible, you can surpass the $60k mark quite easily.

I'm at about $56.4k out the door on my E93 328 and I only got a $1200 discount and didn't buy near all the options.

Upgrade to an E93 335, throw in the options I didn't get (PDC, active steer, active cruise, sports pkg, cold weather, prem sound, hd radio, xm, probably missing more stuff) and you'll be a tad past the $70k mark out the door if I did my guestimation correctly.

First we don't include tax or fees when talking about price. A fully loaded (I built one on edmunds 335 coupe) with EVERY option is $59K (57 as what others are paying)...so I don't know where you got 70K...and I'd like to be your salesman if you paid what you did.

Wow no need to be insulting ******..

Stick that figure ******.******.******..


eisenb11, consider this your last warning on using abusive language. Such use of language is not tolerated on this forum. Any repeated offense will be reported to the admins and will result in your membership being revoked. Your post has been deleted and a record of it is kept for review by admins.

eisenb11, consider this your last warning on using abusive language. Such use of language is not tolerated on this forum. Any repeated offense will be reported to the admins and will result in your membership being revoked. Your post has been deleted and a record of it is kept for review by admins.


Very nice. The guy goes out of his way to insult me and I'm the one getting the flack?

Now I see why another poster claimed that this forum was dying and new people don't want to hang out here.

He's right in that it has a lot of people who will go out of there way to flame people and there is nothing the admins will do about it.

By the way, I didn't use a single word that wouldn't be allowed on the super-pampered American broadcast TV. So that's pretty sad if protecting myself from a flamer is "abusive".

The "other forum" seems to be a lot more productive and friendly... and actually appears to be quite "alive". Sad, very sad.

eisenb11, consider this your last warning on using abusive language. Such use of language is not tolerated on this forum. Any repeated offense will be reported to the admins and will result in your membership being revoked. Your post has been deleted and a record of it is kept for review by admins.


Hey man, just some friendly advice (from running a forum for our magazine and moderating others) Moderators, like police are best and most liked when they are never seen. This is the internet, nobody will get along or agree and as long as it doesn't go too far things work themselves out...don't waste your time being the "dad" in every situation. Waste of your time and it makes people angry that it's over "nanny'd".

Very nice. The guy goes out of his way to insult me and I'm the one getting the flack?

Now I see why another poster claimed that this forum was dying and new people don't want to hang out here.

He's right in that it has a lot of people who will go out of there way to flame people and there is nothing the admins will do about it.

By the way, I didn't use a single word that wouldn't be allowed on the super-pampered American broadcast TV. So that's pretty sad if protecting myself from a flamer is "abusive".

The "other forum" seems to be a lot more productive and friendly... and actually appears to be quite "alive". Sad, very sad.
Buddy, I don't care who insulted who, I am not here to babysit adults. It is the use of abusive language that I had issue with. Your opinions about the forum are yours to have, but people on here are "usually" polite and helpful and we'd like to keep it that way. Btw, you don't have to use vulgar language to be abusive, so don't feed me that American Broadcast TV bs.

Hey man, just some friendly advice (from running a forum for our magazine and moderating others) Moderators, like police are best and most liked when they are never seen. This is the internet, nobody will get along or agree and as long as it doesn't go too far things work themselves out...don't waste your time being the "dad" in every situation. Waste of your time and it makes people angry that it's over "nanny'd".
Thanks, advice well taken. Just don't break the forum rules and you (in the collective sense) won't see my moderator comments. 'Nough said.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/announcement.php?f=189&a=85

http://www.bimmerforums.com/rules.php

I Quote:

DON'T ATTACK EACH OTHER
Because this is so important, we'll say it again: Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult and personal attack. Harassing, offensive, vulgar, abusive, hateful or bashing communications -- especially those aimed at sexual orientation, gender, race, color, religious views, national origin, or disability -- will not be permitted. BEFORE you post a message that is intended to embarrass, humiliate or harass another person or group of people, stop and THINK first! Harassing communications are considered to be those that may cause distress, embarrassment, unwanted attention or other discomfort. It will not be tolerated!

RESPECT
Bimmerforums.com is a place where it's okay to be yourself - be that harried, jovial, silly or sad - as long as you always act with respect for your fellow members. We promise that at Bimmerforums.com you won't have to leave your personality at the door. We promise to bring passion to our work and appreciation for our members. We will listen to your suggestions and complaints, and try to incorporate your ideas in everything we do.

AGREE TO DISAGREE, RESPECTFULLY
We invite and encourage a healthy exchange of opinions; disagreements are okay. If you disagree with a member's post or opinion, by all means, challenge the opinion. However, any challenge must be given with a sense of respect and caring for the other person. The real objective of community is to understand each other, not to attack others and convince them that you're right. Name-calling, insults, "flaming" and attacks are not appropriate and will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree respectfully.

FINALLY, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT
Bimmerforums.com reserves the right to remove any post that does not relate to the topic being discussed or is considered inappropriate on the board. In addition, Bimmerforums.com reserves the right to organize message boards (or folders) in order to best serve the majority of our members. For example, narrow-interest or minimal activity topics may, at Bimmerforums.com's discretion, be relocated to a more appropriate forum, or deleted entirely. Bimmerforums.com also reserves the right to prohibit or delete messages that are thought to violate applicable law or that may be harmful to other members, or the rights of Bimmerforums.com or others. With that said, Bimmerforums.com does not have the practical ability to restrict conduct or communications that might violate Bimmerforums.com's rules. Nor can we ensure prompt removal of offending message board posts. We also reserve the right to remove your Bimmerforums.com membership should you violate its rules or should we deem necessary. Any decision to ban a member for abuse of any of these rules, or for whatever reason, will be made by the administrator team.

Buddy, I don't care who insulted who, I am not here to babysit adults. It is the use of abusive language that I had issue with. Your opinions about the forum are yours to have, but people on here are "usually" polite and helpful and we'd like to keep it that way. Btw, you don't have to use vulgar language to be abusive, so don't feed me that American Broadcast TV bs.

Ah, I see. So it's ok if I politely punch people in the face? :rolleyes

Hey man, just some friendly advice (from running a forum for our magazine and moderating others) Moderators, like police are best and most liked when they are never seen. This is the internet, nobody will get along or agree and as long as it doesn't go too far things work themselves out...don't waste your time being the "dad" in every situation. Waste of your time and it makes people angry that it's over "nanny'd".


Thanks for stepping in. I really did take some slight offense at one of your comments, but, aside from the 1st line, the rest of the post was meant to be edgy tongue-in-cheek.

Anyways, an off-topic part of the nuked comment (side bar) was that I went to the beer mag site out of curiosity. Other than 3 ways to order (whatever it is that's being ordered), it has no info. Just FYI that a clueless person who goes to the site leaves a clueless person!

i think it depends on what vehicle you drive. it's a status symbol if you drive a cheapo 328, with leatherette seats, and tell everybody you drive "a Bimmer". it's also a symbol that you are a successful young professional.

however, if you're like me, you drive the vehicle because it's the best driving vehicle for the money, and you have more fun in that, than your neighbor in his Mustang. yeah, he may beat you running down the quarter mile, but you'll out corner him like it's nobody's business (you'll also be A LOT MORE COMFORTABLE).

i think it depends on what vehicle you drive. it's a status symbol if you drive a cheapo 328, with leatherette seats, and tell everybody you drive "a Bimmer". it's also a symbol that you are a successful young professional.

Is there such a thing as a "cheapo" brand new BMW? :confused. I mean the diff between a 328 with leather and without is 2K or less, and they both cost mid 30K!
BTW, drug dealers and geriatrics (ask nm355 ;)) drive BMWs too, so not sure about the "successful young professional" comment. Well maybe drug dealer consider themselves "professionals" and many are young and "successful" in evading the law, so that may apply. Also nm335 probably will take issue at my "geriatric" labeling, but hey I like to hear his comebacks :).

Is there such a thing as a "cheapo" brand new BMW? :confused. I mean the diff between l328 with eather and without is 2K or less, and they both cost mid 30K!
BTW, drug dealers and geriatrics (ask nm355 ;)) drive BMWs too, so not sure about the "successful young professional" comment. Well maybe drug dealer consider themselves "professionals" and many are young and "successful" in evading the law, so that may apply. Also nm335 probably will take issue at my "geriatric" labeling, but hey I like to hear his comebacks :).

Hello "mryakan":

And in addition, I am not successful either!

Here's my take on it...the BMW 3 Series was the entry level BMW...now the 1 Series has taken that slot. So while I agree with some of what I have read...the 3 being labeled more as an entry level luxury vehicle I find it to be an enthusiast sports sedan. When you are looking for the absolute finest performance sedan you don't need to look much further than a 335.

I would think that by most Americans standard brands like BMW, MB, Lexus, etc. are status symbols to some extent...but when you look beyond just the brand I think you need to look further into the models...the 7 Series is a status symbol...not meaning it isn't a fine performance automobile, but it carries a fair amount of status...when you see someone in it you know they've achieved a certain level of financial success...the 3 Series doesn't automatically bring that thought process, at least in my opinion.

Think back to the 90's....MB used to state they didn't compete against other car companies for business...they competed against other luxuries...things like Rolex watches, vacation homes, etc. I believe that this was true of their higher end vehicles...not that the typical MB or BMW owner couldn't afford to own the car, the watch and the vacation home, but that at some level MB knew it was competing for discretionary income that may be spent on other lifestyle luxuries...not necessarily another brand of automobile.

Should we get a pool, join the country club or buy a new BMW this year...that's how some people think that have a certain amount of discretionary income available to them. All of these items provide some level of status to friends, family, neighbors, etc...so to some extent it's not necessarily how you feel about your automobile, but how others perceive your automobile as to whether or not it would be viewed as a status symbol.

I think most of us would agree that a Rolex, Tag Heuer or Omega watch carry a certain level of status with them when you wear them. Most people who own these watches typically have an everyday watch and then their Rolex...or maybe they where their Submarine everyday ($3500) and their Daytona on special occasions ($15,000)...I don't want to say that there aren't people who where a Daytona or better on a daily basis...but "most" people typically would not do that. So in thinking of this, you would have to say they are wearing that watch for the status that goes along with it...let's be honest my Timex Ironman watch not only keeps better time than a Submariner, it has more features, cost less and by most accounts is more durable...it just doesn't have the same level of status that goes along with wearing a Rolex.

Oddly enough you can get Ironman watches that are far beyond basis...they can download data from a computer, keep all of your contacts, tell you your heartrate and now they even have one that will act as a remote control for your iPod...no Rolex, Tag or Omega will do that.

You can pretty much replace the Rolex with a BMW or MB and the Ironman for an Altima...not all things are going to correlate, but it's pretty much the same thought process across the board.

By the way, if you're looking for a great watch that's a bit beyond an Ironman that still holds it's own when in the company of a Rolex check out Sector...they're in an incredible watch that really perform well. Not a huge fan of their customer service or lack of worthwhile Internet presence, but the watches are really nice, keep good time and can take extreme punishment...they are the watch of choice for extreme conditions!!

Thanks for stepping in. I really did take some slight offense at one of your comments, but, aside from the 1st line, the rest of the post was meant to be edgy tongue-in-cheek.

Anyways, an off-topic part of the nuked comment (side bar) was that I went to the beer mag site out of curiosity. Other than 3 ways to order (whatever it is that's being ordered), it has no info. Just FYI that a clueless person who goes to the site leaves a clueless person!


Here or somewhere else? I don't follow.

Also the Beer Magazine is a beer MAG...we're working on our website but the more important side of the Magazine is making a magazine that you get all the information and entertainment. The website is coming...just not up and running.

Here's my take on it...the BMW 3 Series was the entry level BMW...now the 1 Series has taken that slot. So while I agree with some of what I have read...the 3 being labeled more as an entry level luxury vehicle I find it to be an enthusiast sports sedan. When you are looking for the absolute finest performance sedan you don't need to look much further than a 335.

I would think that by most Americans standard brands like BMW, MB, Lexus, etc. are status symbols to some extent...but when you look beyond just the brand I think you need to look further into the models...the 7 Series is a status symbol...not meaning it isn't a fine performance automobile, but it carries a fair amount of status...when you see someone in it you know they've achieved a certain level of financial success...the 3 Series doesn't automatically bring that thought process, at least in my opinion.

Think back to the 90's....MB used to state they didn't compete against other car companies for business...they competed against other luxuries...things like Rolex watches, vacation homes, etc. I believe that this was true of their higher end vehicles...not that the typical MB or BMW owner couldn't afford to own the car, the watch and the vacation home, but that at some level MB knew it was competing for discretionary income that may be spent on other lifestyle luxuries...not necessarily another brand of automobile.

Should we get a pool, join the country club or buy a new BMW this year...that's how some people think that have a certain amount of discretionary income available to them. All of these items provide some level of status to friends, family, neighbors, etc...so to some extent it's not necessarily how you feel about your automobile, but how others perceive your automobile as to whether or not it would be viewed as a status symbol.

I think most of us would agree that a Rolex, Tag Heuer or Omega watch carry a certain level of status with them when you wear them. Most people who own these watches typically have an everyday watch and then their Rolex...or maybe they where their Submarine everyday ($3500) and their Daytona on special occasions ($15,000)...I don't want to say that there aren't people who where a Daytona or better on a daily basis...but "most" people typically would not do that. So in thinking of this, you would have to say they are wearing that watch for the status that goes along with it...let's be honest my Timex Ironman watch not only keeps better time than a Submariner, it has more features, cost less and by most accounts is more durable...it just doesn't have the same level of status that goes along with wearing a Rolex.

Oddly enough you can get Ironman watches that are far beyond basis...they can download data from a computer, keep all of your contacts, tell you your heartrate and now they even have one that will act as a remote control for your iPod...no Rolex, Tag or Omega will do that.

You can pretty much replace the Rolex with a BMW or MB and the Ironman for an Altima...not all things are going to correlate, but it's pretty much the same thought process across the board.

By the way, if you're looking for a great watch that's a bit beyond an Ironman that still holds it's own when in the company of a Rolex check out Sector...they're in an incredible watch that really perform well. Not a huge fan of their customer service or lack of worthwhile Internet presence, but the watches are really nice, keep good time and can take extreme punishment...they are the watch of choice for extreme conditions!!

One man's expensive watch is another man's everyday watch. If there were no price differences we'd have no rich people :)

Everything is a "Status" symbol. Where you are in the status is what is represented by the object.

Like the kid who just posted he bought a 328 and is paying $1000 a month at 21.His car shows higher status, but his new idea of not being able to enjoy life shows his lower status...

Yes,

BMW 3 series is a status symbol. That's how our culture is. Most college and highschool students dream of BMW 3-series one day. Most young college graduates dream of Porsche 911 one day.


BMW 3 series is a status symbol because it costs twice as much as my Altima and does exactly the same thing in my daily life, which gets me from home to work and back.

At the end of the day BMW 3-series offers nothing extra than Altima or Camry or Accord. It sits four, eats more gas and costs twice as much! On top of that I think Altima is more comfortable than 3-series.

Reality is that, no one NEEDS to go fast, corner fast, or go 0-60 in 6.5 secons. I get 28MPG in my Altima driving mostly in traffic and I am thrilled!

However, you WANT to go fast, corner fast, accelerate fast, brake fast. You WANT to break speed limit and rip through the canyons. Your WANT is not your NEED! Therefore, you show that you have the money to afford the WANTs. It's your status! Both financial and personal.

Yes, you show that: "I am weatlhy enough, passionate enough, proud enough, enthusiast enough, brave enough, or maybe even dumb enough, to spend almost 20K more on a bimmer". Than did someone on his Altima to essentially satisfy transportation needs.

Enough said, I love driving my E90 328i :). BMW is a great car and there is nothing wrong with indulging your self as long as you don't point and laugh at the guy who is driving a camry or old beat up honda.

Thanks, advice well taken. Just don't break the forum rules and you (in the collective sense) won't see my moderator comments. 'Nough said.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/announcement.php?f=189&a=85

http://www.bimmerforums.com/rules.php

I Quote:

DON'T ATTACK EACH OTHER
Because this is so important, we'll say it again: Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult and personal attack. Harassing, offensive, vulgar, abusive, hateful or bashing communications -- especially those aimed at sexual orientation, gender, race, color, religious views, national origin, or disability -- will not be permitted. BEFORE you post a message that is intended to embarrass, humiliate or harass another person or group of people, stop and THINK first! Harassing communications are considered to be those that may cause distress, embarrassment, unwanted attention or other discomfort. It will not be tolerated!

RESPECT
Bimmerforums.com is a place where it's okay to be yourself - be that harried, jovial, silly or sad - as long as you always act with respect for your fellow members. We promise that at Bimmerforums.com you won't have to leave your personality at the door. We promise to bring passion to our work and appreciation for our members. We will listen to your suggestions and complaints, and try to incorporate your ideas in everything we do.

AGREE TO DISAGREE, RESPECTFULLY
We invite and encourage a healthy exchange of opinions; disagreements are okay. If you disagree with a member's post or opinion, by all means, challenge the opinion. However, any challenge must be given with a sense of respect and caring for the other person. The real objective of community is to understand each other, not to attack others and convince them that you're right. Name-calling, insults, "flaming" and attacks are not appropriate and will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree respectfully.

FINALLY, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT
Bimmerforums.com reserves the right to remove any post that does not relate to the topic being discussed or is considered inappropriate on the board. In addition, Bimmerforums.com reserves the right to organize message boards (or folders) in order to best serve the majority of our members. For example, narrow-interest or minimal activity topics may, at Bimmerforums.com's discretion, be relocated to a more appropriate forum, or deleted entirely. Bimmerforums.com also reserves the right to prohibit or delete messages that are thought to violate applicable law or that may be harmful to other members, or the rights of Bimmerforums.com or others. With that said, Bimmerforums.com does not have the practical ability to restrict conduct or communications that might violate Bimmerforums.com's rules. Nor can we ensure prompt removal of offending message board posts. We also reserve the right to remove your Bimmerforums.com membership should you violate its rules or should we deem necessary. Any decision to ban a member for abuse of any of these rules, or for whatever reason, will be made by the administrator team.


No worries, but a cop has a big book of rules...sometimes you got to let things go or people won't like you. I'd rather have people like me than be a mod (and I'm not even one to care if people like me).

Just realize that this is the internet and people sometimes get their stupid little feelings hurt and cry way to much.

I get or got messages all the time on our forum about people being "hurt' and my advice as always "grow up."

Here or somewhere else? I don't follow.

Haha, nevermind, it wasn't important. It was a post here that got nuked.

Also the Beer Magazine is a beer MAG...we're working on our website but the more important side of the Magazine is making a magazine that you get all the information and entertainment. The website is coming...just not up and running.

Ah ok. I was wondering about that. There was no info on the site about it, just how to order. Thought it was an active site, so I was confused. Makes sense that it is still under construction.

At the end of the day BMW 3-series offers nothing extra than Altima or Camry or Accord.
Reality is that, no one NEEDS to go fast, corner fast, or go 0-60 in 6.5 secons.
However, you WANT to go fast, corner fast, accelerate fast, brake fast. You WANT to break speed limit and rip through the canyons. Your WANT is not your NEED! Therefore, you show that you have the money to afford the WANTs. It's your status! Both financial and personal.

Yes, you show that: "I am weatlhy enough, passionate enough, proud enough, enthusiast enough, brave enough, or maybe even dumb enough, to spend almost 20K more on a bimmer". Than did someone on his Altima to essentially satisfy transportation needs.

Well your comment that BMW doesn`t offer anything extra than the other cars doesn`t even deserve a response, but let me say this. If I lived somewhere where no one would see me in my BMW, I`d still get the same car (assuming same financials). Different people, different perspectives I guess.

.....
Wow for a while I though I got redirected to he wrong forum, how did we end up discussing watches :eek: (that`s a joke btw). Anyway, there is a term for those who buy things they don`t really need just to `show off`, it`s called VANITY. If you get something because you enjoy it or appreciate it and you don`t really care what others really think, then price and status have no correlation.

Yes, you show that: "I am weatlhy enough, passionate enough, proud enough, enthusiast enough, brave enough, or maybe even dumb enough, to spend almost 20K more on a bimmer". Than did someone on his Altima to essentially satisfy transportation needs.

Beer made a good point with the example of the 21 year old.

In my oppinion, BMW 3-series would be a better status symbol if every one of its drivers could "afford" them. I put "afford" in quotes, because I mean that one is able to buy one with no significant sacrifice to their lifestyle or quality of life (no eating Ramen every day, not losing a downpayment for a house, etc).

Unfortunately, this isn't so in real life. A 3-series isn't hard to get into if you have the will. The barrier to entry isn't that high. While, I'll give it a higher status than, say, an Altima, I would say that the 3 series has status, just not a lot of it.

To me, a recent 7 series is a status symbol. Only because it has a much higher entry point. One that actually is exclusive enough to say "look at me, I have status".

Perhaps, I'm jaded though and striken with a cases of the "Jones' next door" syndrome. Each time, I take a step up, I see many more steps in the staircase :help

Beer made a good point with the example of the 21 year old.

In my oppinion, BMW 3-series would be a better status symbol if every one of its drivers could "afford" them. I put "afford" in quotes, because I mean that one is able to buy one with no significant sacrifice to their lifestyle or quality of life (no eating Ramen every day, not losing a downpayment for a house, etc).

Unfortunately, this isn't so in real life. A 3-series isn't hard to get into if you have the will. The barrier to entry isn't that high. While, I'll give it a higher status than, say, an Altima, I would say that the 3 series has status, just not a lot of it.

To me, a recent 7 series is a status symbol. Only because it has a much higher entry point. One that actually is exclusive enough to say "look at me, I have status".

Perhaps, I'm jaded though and striken with a cases of the "Jones' next door" syndrome. Each time, I take a step up, I see many more steps in the staircase :help

You might be a little jaded because everybody out here in LA has nice cars, most of which they probably can't afford. But if you say that you own a BMW to people they usually think that it's an expensive car.

For example, when I was looking to purchase my first new car out here, I debated buying a premium brand because I didn't want people in the industry to think we're making too much money, but when I thought about it they buy 45,000 POS trucks and nobody thinks any different. You say you're buying an Audi or BMW and they say some snide remark. So it has some sort of status (good or bad).

Haha, nevermind, it wasn't important. It was a post here that got nuked.



Ah ok. I was wondering about that. There was no info on the site about it, just how to order. Thought it was an active site, so I was confused. Makes sense that it is still under construction.


I didn't realize that one of my posts was edited for anything or nuked.

Lots of people take "generalities personally" when people type "you" on the internet lots of times in means "in general"


Ah I see you took me explaining the price of cars as a personal attack...lol.

Yes,

BMW 3 series is a status symbol. That's how our culture is. Most college and highschool students dream of BMW 3-series one day. Most young college graduates dream of Porsche 911 one day.


BMW 3 series is a status symbol because it costs twice as much as my Altima and does exactly the same thing in my daily life, which gets me from home to work and back.

At the end of the day BMW 3-series offers nothing extra than Altima or Camry or Accord. It sits four, eats more gas and costs twice as much! On top of that I think Altima is more comfortable than 3-series.

Reality is that, no one NEEDS to go fast, corner fast, or go 0-60 in 6.5 secons. I get 28MPG in my Altima driving mostly in traffic and I am thrilled!

However, you WANT to go fast, corner fast, accelerate fast, brake fast. You WANT to break speed limit and rip through the canyons. Your WANT is not your NEED! Therefore, you show that you have the money to afford the WANTs. It's your status! Both financial and personal.

Yes, you show that: "I am weatlhy enough, passionate enough, proud enough, enthusiast enough, brave enough, or maybe even dumb enough, to spend almost 20K more on a bimmer". Than did someone on his Altima to essentially satisfy transportation needs.

Enough said, I love driving my E90 328i :). BMW is a great car and there is nothing wrong with indulging your self as long as you don't point and laugh at the guy who is driving a camry or old beat up honda.

When I was first reading through your post I wasn't exactly agreeing with you...but then saw that you were sort of making it a third person statement as you own a BMW...my point would have been that if you felt that the BMW was overkill when compared to the Altima I would venture to say that an Altima would be overkill when compared to a Sentra or Corolla...and you can continue even further down the automobile food chain until you reach the least expensive car available.

While I certainly understand your statement regarding "wants" and "needs" sometimes a less powerful automobile just isn't safe in all driving conditions. I'm not justifying my purchase by saying I need the power to merge onto a highway or evade a crazed lunatic experiencing roadrage...but in some instances less powerful cars are simply a danger to everyone...owner and other drivers included. So my rationale concludes that everyone should own a BMW...oops, what was I saying!?!?

My father always told me that an automobile was simply a tool that got you from point "A" to point "B"...overindulging in an automobile was foolish and irresponsible, he would tell me. I guess he would have had a bit more credibility if he lived by those words, but not only did and still does drive a luxury vehicle he is the one who purchased me my first BMW 3 Series when I was a sophomore in high school. His point was well made, but I learn by example.

He also always told me that when you purchase a car you have this payment (if you finance or lease it as most people do)...it doesn't go down over time...it remains the same, so no matter how bad you want a car...remember that the payment you make the first month when the car is new and beautiful is the same payment as the last one when it is 36 or 48 or 60 months old and that "new car" love is long gone. That one definitely hits home and that's why we always find ourselves dumping cars so frequently...we all love new cars, it's the American way...it's our love affair with the automobile.

Perhaps, I'm jaded though and striken with a cases of the "Jones' next door" syndrome. Each time, I take a step up, I see many more steps in the staircase :help


That's as true a statement as I have ever read!

When I was first reading through your post I wasn't exactly agreeing with you...but then saw that you were sort of making it a third person statement as you own a BMW...my point would have been that if you felt that the BMW was overkill when compared to the Altima I would venture to say that an Altima would be overkill when compared to a Sentra or Corolla...and you can continue even further down the automobile food chain until you reach the least expensive car available.

While I certainly understand your statement regarding "wants" and "needs" sometimes a less powerful automobile just isn't safe in all driving conditions. I'm not justifying my purchase by saying I need the power to merge onto a highway or evade a crazed lunatic experiencing roadrage...but in some instances less powerful cars are simply a danger to everyone...owner and other drivers included. So my rationale concludes that everyone should own a BMW...oops, what was I saying!?!?

My father always told me that an automobile was simply a tool that got you from point "A" to point "B"...overindulging in an automobile was foolish and irresponsible, he would tell me. I guess he would have had a bit more credibility if he lived by those words, but not only did and still does drive a luxury vehicle he is the one who purchased me my first BMW 3 Series when I was a sophomore in high school. His point was well made, but I learn by example.

He also always told me that when you purchase a car you have this payment (if you finance or lease it as most people do)...it doesn't go down over time...it remains the same, so no matter how bad you want a car...remember that the payment you make the first month when the car is new and beautiful is the same payment as the last one when it is 36 or 48 or 60 months old and that "new car" love is long gone. That one definitely hits home and that's why we always find ourselves dumping cars so frequently...we all love new cars, it's the American way...it's our love affair with the automobile.

You know the people that usually say cars are transportation and have very nice cars are people with a lot of money. :)

Clothes are just to hide our genitals too, bet he doesn't shop at walmart!

I didn't realize that one of my posts was edited for anything or nuked.

Lots of people take "generalities personally" when people type "you" on the internet lots of times in means "in general"

Ah I see you took me explaining the price of cars as a personal attack...lol.

Haha, nah, was one of my posts, but it's no biggy. I was just pissed about the "being my salesman comment". Part of the post showed a loaded 335 E93 coming in at about $66k before taxes and fees. But... it sounds like BMW is finally starting to give out decent discounts on the E93 now so the price shrinks away from the $70k mark I was trying to justify.

Wasn't important... carry on... these aren't the droids you are looking for...

I like the kiss and make up, much better than if the original post was left. Believe me, I've seen it happen, and it takes the thread to another dimension. My moderator work here is done for now, if we all take it easy and give each others the benefit of the doubt, then all I would be doing with my moderator hat would be moving posts to the correct sections, less work for me, better for everyone involved. Anyway, enough of hijacking this thread on my part, issue closed, no grudges here, hopefully lessons learned.

Haha, nah, was one of my posts, but it's no biggy. I was just pissed about the "being my salesman comment". Part of the post showed a loaded 335 E93 coming in at about $66k before taxes and fees. But... it sounds like BMW is finally starting to give out decent discounts on the E93 now so the price shrinks away from the $70k mark I was trying to justify.

Wasn't important... carry on... these aren't the droids you are looking for...


I was just saying if you wanted to pay 70K for a car that lists at 59 I'd like to be your salesman. I was just pointing out for those who don't know what the car costs that it's not a 70K car. We all exaggerate for stories but you went outside the acceptable male limits of fibbing and had to be given a penalty.

But if you're in the market I'll broker that car for you :)

I always look at a car at base price. The options we put on really don't do anything to the car. I A 3-series is a 3-series with or without Comfort access.

So a 3-series, to me, is a $40K car.

Now here is my counter question to the OP. Were you trying to take an indirect poll on who bought the car just for status and who bought the car for other reasons? If not, that would have been a fun exercise too.

So a 3-series, to me, is a $40K car.

Ah, I go for exact amount (as if it were just about to get ganked out of my pocket) so I like to see the cost with options, taxes, fees, etc.

Yeah, a dealer (I believe it was BMW Riverside) said they could do me for invoice + $300 for an E90... that's like $31k + options + taxes/fees. I didn't follow up to see if they were full of it, though.

I've seen leases in the low/mid $300s for a base 328.

The entry point isn't huge here.

...my point would have been that if you felt that the BMW was overkill when compared to the Altima I would venture to say that an Altima would be overkill when compared to a Sentra or Corolla...and you can continue even further down the automobile food chain until you reach the least expensive car available.



Very valid statement Mr. Offshore!

If you want to get down to dirty details, Altima is clearly an overkill for someone like me. I carry no passengers 95% of the time and at that rate
I might as well drive a Ford focus :).

Depending how we define status, BMW 3-series and I mean E90, can be either just a car or a status symbol.

In reality there are many people who need a car to get from A to B. They drive less than 10k miles a year and choose to lease 3-series. If you think about it, Altima will cost just as much to lease as 3-series. Maybe a bit more, but it's clearly a better value. And obviously those people don't even see 3-series as a status symbol, but just a car.


You old man is absolutely right, I went through 4 cars before I suddenly realized that my old man, who keeps saying "point A to point B" also has a very good point :).

Wow for a while I though I got redirected to he wrong forum, how did we end up discussing watches :eek: (that`s a joke btw). Anyway, there is a term for those who buy things they don`t really need just to `show off`, it`s called VANITY. If you get something because you enjoy it or appreciate it and you don`t really care what others really think, then price and status have no correlation.

Hello "mryakan":

Yes it is off-topic. Some of us engineers (and a couple of my degrees are in engineering, so I can claim membership) really enjoy well designed devices. That is why some of us buy Rolex, Omega, Tag Heuer, Breitling, etc. (And to some extent why some of us were drawn to BMW.) Even though the quartz devices may outperform a watch with 300 precision mechanical parts (but not by much) the Engineer in us allows us to appreciate the mechanical watch. So far, three Rolex, one Tag, one Beritling, and one Omega. All COSC.

Then again, don't get me started on the Mont Blanc pens... for some of the same reasons.

Hello "mryakan":

Yes it is off-topic. Some of us engineers (and a couple of my degrees are in engineering, so I can claim membership) really enjoy well designed devices. That is why some of us buy Rolex, Omega, Tag Heuer, Breitling, etc. (And to some extent why some of us were drawn to BMW.) Even though the quartz devices may outperform a watch with 300 precision mechanical parts (but not by much) the Engineer in us allows us to appreciate the mechanical watch. So far, three Rolex, one Tag, one Beritling, and one Omega. All COSC.

Then again, don't get me started on the Mont Blanc pens... for some of the same reasons.

One Tag, One Weils, Several Swiss army (when i was poor). I saw a MB pen at the airport for about 12K with 500 moving parts...seems like a waste of money considering I loose pens every hour.

One Tag, One Weils, Several Swiss army (when i was poor). I saw a MB pen at the airport for about 12K with 500 moving parts...seems like a waste of money considering I loose pens every hour.

Hello "Beer Goggles":

Well, so far, I have lost one Mont Blanc pen. Still kicking myself. But, only one. So far, at last count, have 7 pens, and 2 pencils. Including the rare 1/2 size pencil.

Sorry to hear that you had to resort to Swiss Army (and being poor)... builds character.

I do not understand why the wife likes the Tag over the Rolex. Or the 3.0i X5 over the new X5. Oh well, menopause...

Hello "mryakan":

Yes it is off-topic. Some of us engineers (and a couple of my degrees are in engineering, so I can claim membership) really enjoy well designed devices. That is why some of us buy Rolex, Omega, Tag Heuer, Breitling, etc. (And to some extent why some of us were drawn to BMW.) Even though the quartz devices may outperform a watch with 300 precision mechanical parts (but not by much) the Engineer in us allows us to appreciate the mechanical watch. So far, three Rolex, one Tag, one Beritling, and one Omega. All COSC.

Then again, don't get me started on the Mont Blanc pens... for some of the same reasons.
There is nothing wrong with appreciating the finer things in life IMO as long as you enjoy them, i.e. buy them for yourself not for what people think of you. But that is just me, I am very old fashioned that way.

Sorry to hear that you had to resort to Swiss Army (and being poor)... builds character.

+1 :buttrock, that is one lesson I wonder how to get my kids to learn.

+1 :buttrock, that is one lesson I wonder how to get my kids to learn.

Hey who isn't poor in college. I often say "without struggle there is no learning."

Actually to have a $500 watch in college wouldn't be considered poor...but I did know the guy who's job it was to crush watches for Swiss Army :)

And I guess I've never really bought a "nice watch" ...my Tag is from work, and my Raymond Weil is from my GF. Maybe I need another one!

Hey who isn't poor in college. I often say "without struggle there is no learning."

Some people are born with a silver spoon in their mouths, I knew many in highschool and university. Not sure if there are any here. I agree with you 100% on your saying, try as much as I can to instill that in my kids even at very young age.

As for watches, never really cared for anything expensive or very timely, in fact I like the ones that tend to get ahead after some time, they allow me not to be too late to meetings ;).

1. MOST OF THE OWNERS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE DRIVING PLEASURE AND PERFORMANCE OF THESE CARS. THEY USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE AS TO WHY THEY BOUGHT IT, SO THEY DON'T SOUND LIKE AN ELITIST (SP). MOST OF THE PEOPLE HERE ON THE BOARD ARE ENTHUSIASTS. BUT MOST OF THE OWNERS ARE NOT. SPEND A DAY IN A DEALERSHIP. YOU WILL FEEL MY PAIN.



Agreed Rob.... I see 40+ y/o stuck up women or men that could care less about the true driving experience of the BMW... It REALLY, REALLY, annoys me...

This is pretty funny, bmw's and watches. I've always considered Rolex as the brand for people who don't really "know" watches though.... got my girl an perpetual IWC that is understated instead. It's not about what it "looks" like to the rest of the world you know although I like some of the Corums because they are so wild looking.

We got the 328iT6 because it's so freakin comfortable. I had a 2006 Z4 M for a while that was fun. It never occurred to me that it might be a status symbol, I just thought it was more fun to drive than the standard Z4. Then I noticed people just checking it/me out all the time and figured it must be because I looked so young and it looked so new and pricey or something. Of course, in some places, it's the kind of car the kid gets in high school or for graduation.
Before getting the bmw I drove the Audi A3, A4, A6, Porsche C4S, M3, M5, and got rid of the Z4M and decided on somewhat practical/useful wagon and in tight build of the 328iT. Now we wish we had the space of the 535iT but then it isn't quite as fun either.

I see 3's as being basically the "affordable" bmw seeing as the leases ae so cheap and base models are cheap too, considering what you're getting in terms of engineering. Ours topped $52k though being fully loaded and with a 19" wheel package but I wouldn't have had it any other way. I generally consider the base 3's that people have to be driven by people who actually don't appreciate what these cars can be or can barely afford the base model but want the STATUS.

I see too many boring colored automatics....it makes me sad for them to be missing out on how much fun these cars can be. :eyecrazy

With the convertible, you can surpass the $60k mark quite easily.

I'm at about $56.4k out the door on my E93 328 and I only got a $1200 discount and didn't buy near all the options.

Upgrade to an E93 335, throw in the options I didn't get (PDC, active steer, active cruise, sports pkg, cold weather, prem sound, hd radio, xm, probably missing more stuff) and you'll be a tad past the $70k mark out the door if I did my guestimation correctly.

You can get to $60K on the 335 E93 fully loaded, not $70k.

A

Wow, I find most of your posts annoying but this one made me laugh out loud.
yeah same hear. that was great lol

I have to say, I don't understand the whole "keeping up with the Jonses" mentality that drives people to seek status in the material things they own. Is this really the way America thinks?
I moved to England at 17 and there it seems that people were much more satisfied with what they had...guess I have adopted that.
I bought my 335i because it is the only car I have ever looked over my shoulder at after parking just to look at it and appreciate its lines and to remember the ride I just took. I have never had this with anything other than my race bikes.
Status...I guess that is for people with low self-esteem?

I have to say, I don't understand the whole "keeping up with the Jonses" mentality that drives people to seek status in the material things they own. Is this really the way America thinks?

Are you trying to America-bash? Because, this is a rather trollish statement.

"Keeping up with the Jones'" is not an American thing, it's a human thing. Show me a single modern society that is not afflicted by this? It's been something that's been in effect since the dawn of time.

Unless one is dysfunctional, one is always trying to improve their position in society. If it were not so, most people would have no reason to succeed and achieve.

England, by the way, is no exception. If it were, those tiny, ridiculously expensive flats in the most "posh" parts of London certainly wouldn't exist.

As much as you like the look of the 335, would have bought it if it were made by Yugo?

We're only human, we like nice things! :D

Are you trying to America-bash? Because, this is a rather trollish statement.

"Keeping up with the Jones'" is not an American thing, it's a human thing. Show me a single modern society that is not afflicted by this? It's been something that's been in effect since the dawn of time.

Unless one is dysfunctional, one is always trying to improve their position in society. If it were not so, most people would have no reason to succeed and achieve.

England, by the way, is no exception. If it were, those tiny, ridiculously expensive flats in the most "posh" parts of London certainly wouldn't exist.

As much as you like the look of the 335, would have bought it if it were made by Yugo?

We're only human, we like nice things! :D
Wow...well, first of all, not American bashing since I am one. Been defending her freedom for 22 years now, most of it overseas and in hot and sandy places.
I disagree that it is dysfunctional to not have prime motive of improving one's position in society. I would think that improvement of one's self is a much better goal.
London is expensive...cost of living does not equate to status.
If Yugo made the 335, I would absolutely buy it...it would probably be a fair bit cheaper as well! You honestly would eschew a car of equal build quality, performance and looks just because it says Yugo?
There is nothing wrong with liking nice things. There is something wrong with finding and establishing your self-worth in your possessions. That's just sad.

Logic would say that a country that still has a royal family (figureheads only) does in fact do a status thang LOL.
Insofar as a 3 series being a status symbol not in my neck of the woods, it's not unusual to see several at an intersection at any given time. They are just a nice, quality car.

ahhh more people who bought a BMW because they "wanted it" for looks yet don't think it's about status, lol.

I'm assuming you'll buy a Pontiac G8 then right?

Wow...well, first of all, not American bashing since I am one. Been defending her freedom for 22 years now, most of it overseas and in hot and sandy places.

Then, for that, I salute you. I do the same, but in a different way.

I disagree that it is dysfunctional to not have prime motive of improving one's position in society. I would think that improvement of one's self is a much better goal.

That's rather subjective and I don't believe that reflects the ideology of the majority. It's ideal, but I don't believe it to be realistic. That's a matter of personal philosophy and something that I believe has no right or wrong answer.

London is expensive...cost of living does not equate to status.

Agreed, but this doesn't address my statement. Does every single flat of the same size cost the same in London no matter which part it is in? Some areas command more status than others, you can't say that the price of the flat isn't affected by this!

If Yugo made the 335, I would absolutely buy it...it would probably be a fair bit cheaper as well! You honestly would eschew a car of equal build quality, performance and looks just because it says Yugo?

I'll be honest and say I would forgo the Yugo. The vast majority of people would do the same.

Also, in order for your answer to be fair, the Yugo would not only have to have the same build quality, looks, and performance, but also the same price as well. Otherwise, we're comparing a cost/value proposition with a status/perceived-status proposition.

There is nothing wrong with liking nice things. There is something wrong with finding and establishing your self-worth in your possessions. That's just sad.

That's a two-way street. While one may seek status-giving items to increase their feeling self-worth, others may seek status-giving items in order to express their self worth.

Haha, I love philosophical arguments. It's impossible to win them, but they're a heck of a lot of fun :D

ahhh more people who bought a BMW because they "wanted it" for looks yet don't think it's about status, lol.

I'm assuming you'll buy a Pontiac G8 then right?

I don't know what a Pontiac G8 is. I did have a Pontiac Fiero when I was younger though...if the build quality is anything like that, I would have to say no.
I chose the 335i as a compromise. After I had a really bad crash on the track on my racebike, my wife and I came to an agreement that I would stop riding, but I could get a sporty car.
I needed a car that was fast, well built, nice lines, and could haul 4 people in comfort. I really wanted the Cayman S because of its handling, but it had no backseats. There is a place to buy Fords and Chevy cars here, but they are all so ugly and they handle like pigs on rollerskates. In the end it was between an Audi and the BMW and the BMW had a lower cost.
So, no status here...

Does every single flat of the same size cost the same in London no matter which part it is in? Some areas command more status than others, you can't say that the price of the flat isn't affected by this!

I'll be honest and say I would forgo the Yugo. The vast majority of people would do the same.

Also, in order for your answer to be fair, the Yugo would not only have to have the same build quality, looks, and performance, but also the same price as well.

That's a two-way street. While one may seek status-giving items to increase their feeling self-worth, others may seek status-giving items in order to express their self worth.

Haha, I love philosophical arguments. It's impossible to win them, but they're a heck of a lot of fun :D
I see your point on the flats...I guess I didn't hang out with too many Londoners to notice...I was up in the Midlands and over in the East. My sister in law lives in Stoke Newington...personally I hate London...trash everywhere.
Okay, the Yugo and the BMW completely equal in all respects? That is a hard one! I guess it would be a flip of a coin. Actually, I would take the Yugo...from the stuff I have read about how people seem to view BMW drivers, I would save a lot of key marks, snide comments and ricer flybys:)
Anyway, I still think seeking status (actively promoting oneself) through position or possessions is a sure sign of low self-esteem.
Also, this status seeking "keeping up with the Jonses" thing has tanked the US economy...hard to believe the debt people will incur to give themselves "status":confused

If Yugo made the 335, I would absolutely buy it...it would probably be a fair bit cheaper as well! You honestly would eschew a car of equal build quality, performance and looks just because it says Yugo?
I'll be honest and say I would forgo the Yugo. The vast majority of people would do the same.

What if say it was not a Yugo, but a Subaru STI or Mitsubishi EVO? I guess the statistics tell a different story.

Also, this status seeking "keeping up with the Jonses" thing has tanked the US economy...hard to believe the debt people will incurr to give themselves "status":confused
I have to agree with you on that one, but I'll correct it to say "perceived status".

+1 on "perceived status" ...I would even go so far as "self-perceived status"

I see the 3 as paying for higher end / quality product. I equate it to buying a 1080p TV for your living room as opposed to a 720p. Some can appreciate the difference, others can't. I can appreciate that 'status'.

I don't see the 3 series as an "exclusive" or "status symbol". Luxury SUVs and expensive "Crossovers" are much more a status symbol in the US.

Also, this status seeking "keeping up with the Jonses" thing has tanked the US economy...hard to believe the debt people will incur to give themselves "status":confused

I agree 8,000,000%!

Way earlier on in this thread, I made a comment that for something to give one status, the person owning it must be able to "afford it" - no crazy loans, huge reverse mortgages, spending every penny saved, or anything that would sacrifice quality of life. These days it's too easy to get money and buy things you really can't afford.

Ofcourse, in the US, we're generally talking, not cars, but homes which are many times more expensive. I'm scared to see how this drama plays out.

I'll be fine one way or another, but I still stand to potentially lose a lot of money because of the irresponsible lending/borrowing habits of others and that's never fun! :(

Jesus, it's STATUS... if it's perceived or not. It's a car that cost more than other cars...therefore people (if you like it or not) associate driving one with having more money or being well off.

I agree 8,000,000%!

Way earlier on in this thread, I made a comment that for something to give one status, the person owning it must be able to "afford it" - no crazy loans, huge reverse mortgages, spending every penny saved, or anything that would sacrifice quality of life. These days it's too easy to get money and buy things you really can't afford.

Ofcourse, in the US, we're generally talking, not cars, but homes which are many times more expensive. I'm scared to see how this drama plays out.

I'll be fine one way or another, but I still stand to potentially lose a lot of money because of the irresponsible lending/borrowing habits of others and that's never fun! :(

You guys need to travel, that is NOT the case in most of the country and probably THE case in LA. Where you want to appear to have money.

In college my friend from out here went to school back East with us. He was amazed at the differences in the culture (which I am aware of now living out here)

He said.

Back East people want to look like they don't have money...worn out clothes, hats blah blah

Back in LA everybody wanted to look like the just bought everything they wear.

Now this equated to being in college and clothing, but it holds true out here...lots of people out here were "house" rich, in that they had inflated equity in their homes. Then they used that equity to buy all this shit they couldn't afford.

It's the money in Hollywood that corrupts the youth.

I don't know what a Pontiac G8 is. I did have a Pontiac Fiero when I was younger though...if the build quality is anything like that, I would have to say no.
I chose the 335i as a compromise. After I had a really bad crash on the track on my racebike, my wife and I came to an agreement that I would stop riding, but I could get a sporty car.
I needed a car that was fast, well built, nice lines, and could haul 4 people in comfort. I really wanted the Cayman S because of its handling, but it had no backseats. There is a place to buy Fords and Chevy cars here, but they are all so ugly and they handle like pigs on rollerskates. In the end it was between an Audi and the BMW and the BMW had a lower cost.
So, no status here...

If you're over seas the build quality of all cars is better. You do know that the FORD Focus is one of the best selling and highly regarded over there right?

Some of the reason you buy an Audi or BMW is that they made themselves desirable by building cars that people dream to have. Whether you like it or not they "marketed" you from day one with "it's a driving machine"

Everybody likes to think they "buy cars because they are an enthusiast" or "I'm not "label whoring" ... Personally I don't buy it. I can link to threads where people mock the Infinity and call it a Datsun...Nissan makes some really good cars ...look at the GTR there are people who will call it a Datsun, even though it's better than most cars in the world.

If you're over seas the build quality of all cars is better. You do know that the FORD Focus is one of the best selling and highly regarded over there right?

Some of the reason you buy an Audi or BMW is that they made themselves desirable by building cars that people dream to have. Whether you like it or not they "marketed" you from day one with "it's a driving machine"

Everybody likes to think they "buy cars because they are an enthusiast" or "I'm not "label whoring" ... Personally I don't buy it. I can link to threads where people mock the Infinity and call it a Datsun...Nissan makes some really good cars ...look at the GTR there are people who will call it a Datsun, even though it's better than most cars in the world.

Those days are gone, my friend, things are worse in LA, but everyone is playing this game now.

My dad's side of the family is from NY. Out east, NYC is very LA like. The other areas are like the rest of the country.

I'm originally from MI (midwest). In MI, everyone wants to get nice cars and Mc Mansions - large 5,000 square foot houses, that consume the entire lot, that cost in the $400k-$500k range. While that's chump change in LA, it's a huge deal in MI. Salaries are lower and taxes are higher there.

As for cars, you only need to drive around the Detroit area to see poser-mode in full effect. I lived in an apartment complex in a Detroit suburb for a while and it was amazing how many people there were that could barely pay rent, but drove around in $70k-$100k cars over there. I need to take some dressing lessons from them, because many of these people looked like a million bucks!

While I may have agreed with you 15 years ago, things have changed alot on the other side of the country.

While LA is the closest to the ground zero of hollywood-itist, it seems to be the bad habit that everyone else acknowledges, but somehow picks up anyways! :D

What if say it was not a Yugo, but a Subaru STI or Mitsubishi EVO? I guess the statistics tell a different story.

Can I vote for neither? :D

As for cars, you only need to drive around the Detroit area to see poser-mode in full effect. I lived in an apartment complex in a Detroit suburb for a while and it was amazing how many people there were that could barely pay rent, but drove around in $70k-$100k cars over there. I need to take some dressing lessons from them, because many of these people looked like a million bucks!

I've only been to detroit once and I have to agree that was my impression too :). Kids still in highschool/college with no real jobs nor parents to cover their expenses, maxing out credit cards to drive brand new flashy cars.

Those days are gone, my friend, things are worse in LA, but everyone is playing this game now.

My dad's side of the family is from NY. Out east, NYC is very LA like. The other areas are like the rest of the country.

I'm originally from MI (midwest). In MI, everyone wants to get nice cars and Mc Mansions - large 5,000 square foot houses, that consume the entire lot, that cost in the $400k-$500k range. While that's chump change in LA, it's a huge deal in MI. Salaries are lower and taxes are higher there.

As for cars, you only need to drive around the Detroit area to see poser-mode in full effect. I lived in an apartment complex in a Detroit suburb for a while and it was amazing how many people there were that could barely pay rent, but drove around in $70k-$100k cars over there. I need to take some dressing lessons from them, because many of these people looked like a million bucks!

While I may have agreed with you 15 years ago, things have changed alot on the other side of the country.

While LA is the closest to the ground zero of hollywood-itist, it seems to be the bad habit that everyone else acknowledges, but somehow picks up anyways! :D

Larger cities always have people with more money. I disagree that the mentality and culture are the same at all. Not even close. Of course everybody wants nice things...but out here it's not the same at all.

What if say it was not a Yugo, but a Subaru STI or Mitsubishi EVO? I guess the statistics tell a different story.
Can I vote for neither? :D
Yeah you can, but a lot of people vote for one of the other, and I doubt those cars equate with status (unless you are talking about Vin-Diesel-esque status I guess :confused).

I think some are confusing the "cool factor" with "status". Yes a lot of people, esp. young guys buy brand new flashy cars to look cool (to peers or girls or whatever) but they are not trying to covey status, or at least no one will mistake their "status" when they ask to borrow money to buy gas for their brand new ride.

I think some are confusing the "cool factor" with "status". Yes a lot of people, esp. young guys buy brand new flashy cars to look cool (to peers or girls or whatever) but they are not trying to covey status, or at least no one will mistake their "status" when they ask to borrow money to buy gas for their brand new ride.

Which are really the same thing...
status symbol
a possession that indicates one's social importance
Example: a car, a private swimming-pool and other status symbols

status symbol
n. Something, such as a possession or an activity, by which one's social or economic prestige is measured.


I'm not sure why everybody gets all defensive, you could have bought a different car if you really just cared about pure driving.

Which are really the same thing...
status symbol
a possession that indicates one's social importance
Example: a car, a private swimming-pool and other status symbols

status symbol
n. Something, such as a possession or an activity, by which one's social or economic prestige is measured.


I'm not sure why everybody gets all defensive, you could have bought a different car if you really just cared about pure driving.
You are missing the point. Status in the context of this discussion really meant social status, in other words (and I am interpreting the OP's intent) how well off you are. In that case being/looking cool and having status are not necessarily the same thing. Refer to my gas money comment, I've seen it happen ;).
Either case, I am indifferent to the outcome of this debate, I just jumped in because I have nothing better to do :nono, hahaha.

You know years ago when I bought my 1st "luxury sedan"...a Mercedes 190E I think I was buying it more for status than anything else..at that time...in the 80's I think I was trying to be the quintessential yuppie..high end sedan...polo shirts..name brand this & that..

But in my "old age" I found myself going for the BMW because of the performance...I'm sure there are those out there who do buy Bimmers for status as I did the Mercedes way back when...but then there are those of us who buy because we are true enthusiasts who really do love driving our cars!!

It's like homes too in a way...I live in a neigborhood with a golf course and there are plenty of nice big homes that line the fairways of the community I live in that I could have just as well have bought but I chose a more modest home...closer to the elementary school that is cozy & comfortable...not screaming "beautiful huge house" on a golf course! I guess it's the same with my 335i...it's cozy & comfortable and a helluva lot of fun to drive! Not ostentatious IMHO and not something I would consider being a "money" car but just plain and simple..a car designed for people who love to drive! Cozy, comfortable & fun...

If you're over seas the build quality of all cars is better. You do know that the FORD Focus is one of the best selling and highly regarded over there right?

Some of the reason you buy an Audi or BMW is that they made themselves desirable by building cars that people dream to have. Whether you like it or not they "marketed" you from day one with "it's a driving machine"

Everybody likes to think they "buy cars because they are an enthusiast" or "I'm not "label whoring" ... Personally I don't buy it. I can link to threads where people mock the Infinity and call it a Datsun...Nissan makes some really good cars ...look at the GTR there are people who will call it a Datsun, even though it's better than most cars in the world.
LOL! Yeah, when I moved back to the US for a few years back in 1990, I bought a Ford Escort (considered a good car in the UK at the time). I had no idea what a piece of crap the Escort was in the US. The Focus is a very good car over here.
As for marketing, the only marketing I ever had was my father in law who worked for BMW and used to bring the 636s home from Silverstone (they were used for race training). They were inspirational, and yes they were "driving machines". To this day, I don't think I have ever seen a BMW advertisement though.
Buy what you like, not everyone cares what other people think. Status is largely a function of what society assigns to a person or thing. While others may think BMW is a status thing, I think it is just a nice car that is fun to drive and is beautiful to look at.

You are missing the point. Status in t