I'm jealous so I'll post pics of the 4 day build before last years WGI event. Car was delivered thursday evening and on a trailer to get aligned monday nite. Made it to the track thursday and got 2nd in CM and 6th overall out of 50 something. BIG thanks to the HMS motorsport boys, Diff Dan and fellow club racers Scott Cassagrande and Todd Merrill!
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right about then I decided I needed new wheels for the 2nd time that season...

looks good!

So now getting ready for next season and have all new suspension, bearings, bushings, wheels, slicks and (maybe) engine to go in for VIR. But first, EXTREME weight loss and fresh flat black. Reaper redone is on its way!
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That 's how she sits after yesterday, hoping to have the carbon quarters sized and in primer before I leave for the race show in Springfield saturday!

It looks kinda heavy what with all the left over metal between the cutouts :D

Nice, Whats the target wet with driver, under 2300?

You're crazy :) I love it! I am a little concerned with the structural rigidity and integrity of the chassis, but that can be solved with some thin wall tubing properly placed.

Definitely interested in the before/after weight loss.

You probably could save even more weight by cutting out triangles next to each other and keep some of the rigidity.

Goodluck and keep the pics coming!

I'm taking ur holesaw away!

Badass. I hope Holder has a strong stomach for when he sees those.

I'm not too afraid of the rigidity, technically I haven't hit anything but skin pieces. Anything that is structural is tied in or untouched. Hoping for 2300 with driver and some gas but I'm not sure I can do it without some CF on the roof.
Dan, when you bringing me the zesty 3??:bigun2

Holder is gonna cry!

Looks very good phil! Any idea what kind of weight savings you recieved with the hole saw frenzy? I will probably do some of that to the bumpers and a few places, but you went crazy! Any concern with rusting etc now that you have that done? Keep up the good work, I am excited to see the car at the track this year!

I got around 22lbs from that 1 side including the 1/4 panel skin. A little more off since I couldn't weigh the shards that were on the floor and in my eyes. Rust won't be a problem, I'm painting everything anyways.

That's nuts. I absolutely love it.

Definitely keep taking pictures, much appreciated.

I have not broken out the hole saw frenzy just yet, I want to get the cage finalized and plotted out so I know where to cut.

You using a standard or sheet metal cutter ?

swiss cheese action.........nice....awesome car.....

HOLY CRAP!!!:eyecrazy

Why do you still have the passenger door hinges?

Damn, you just showed me one more thing I have to do to the car...
Is that legal for NASA, SCCA? I thought we couldn't modify the interior panels except what was absolutely necessary for fitting the cage...

So now getting ready for next season and have all new suspension, bearings, bushings, wheels, slicks and (maybe) engine to go in for VIR. But first, EXTREME weight loss and fresh flat black. Reaper redone is on its way!
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Now that's a SERIOUS effort at weight reduction!
Might want to rethink the holes in the ROCKERS though.... ;)

22lbs from what, JUST the holesaws, or including other sheet metal removed?

To get 22lbs of 2" round holes, you would need to cut almost 400 holes, and thats assuming thicker parts of the chassis.

This is why I am probably not bothering with holesawing, for what, 8hrs....its not worth the, at most, 5-6lbs.

This is so fricken weird - it's like Deja Vu, but you are a little insane. To see an old car of mine reborn - hurry up and paint it flat black so it doesn't mess with my mind anymore!!!!!!!

Someone, get that hole saw away from him - soon!!!!!

This is so fricken weird - it's like Deja Vu, but you are a little insane. To see an old car of mine reborn - hurry up and paint it flat black so it doesn't mess with my mind anymore!!!!!!!

Someone, get that hole saw away from him - soon!!!!!

So, is it going in SM now or DM or CM or what? ;)

Don't forget to give credit to the guy that brought and drank a bunch of the beer during that build, as well as making the swell mirror brackets. ;)

You are a nut with the hole saw - love it.

that's crazy....serious weight reduction. badass car (except it needs wider rear wheels to fill out the fender)

how many holesaws have you gone through?

badass car (except it needs wider rear wheels to fill out the fender)

Nah, Phil prefers to stack 3 spacers together. :lol

Too many things to quote!
I'm not worried about the rockers since the outer skin is all that is cut. My E30 didn't have outer skins at all with a 6 point cage.
Standard holesaw. 22 lbs with 1/4 panel skin, holesaw and seamsealer.
SM is in the future when the roof gets done to take full advantage of SCCA GT rules, but since I can't class up, CM or DM this season. (still figuring out engine possibilities)
Flat black soon Jon. Every panel got removed and stripped/ repaired, then primed. Once the quarter panels are on, I'll decide if I want to do the roof now.
Hinges are there in case I get drilled in the side and need to throw steel doors back on for a while, or if pinned on doors get decided on as illegal. (some rule books say ok, some don't specify but cross reference other rule books.)
Stack spacers??:devillook
Actually, we had some custom 75mm ones made and tried them out at NH... never seen a bearing burn in a day before!
Baer, my bad brother! I can't believe I forgot the beer guy and mirror installer!
Only on my first holesaw, cutting oil FTW!

I'm not too afraid of the rigidity, technically I haven't hit anything but skin pieces. Anything that is structural is tied in or untouched. Hoping for 2300 with driver and some gas but I'm not sure I can do it without some CF on the roof.
Dan, when you bringing me the zesty 3??:bigun2

Holder is gonna cry!

Soon! it will be so light it will just float by hahaha

I will have to be sedated!

Soon! it will be so light it will just float by hahaha

like a fairy...:D

like a fairy...:D

Are we talking about the car or the driver? I'm just saying...the last guy I knew to own a Z3 was a hair dresser. :D

Are we talking about the car or the driver? I'm just saying...the last guy I knew to own a Z3 was a hair dresser. :D

I bet you looked cute sitting in his passenger seat on Friday nights!

I bet you looked cute sitting in his passenger seat on Friday nights!

At least I got free haircuts out of the deal...

http://home.earthlink.net/~melhayward/beatlism/veggietales3.3.JPG

So, is it going in SM now or DM or CM or what? ;)


Mike, it's like you're one step away from a stalking restraining order! ;)

Scott - we have a limited supply of the true crazies in CR. At least let them cavort with each other!!! :)

Phil,

Whatever you do, don't loose those pimping fake CF ebay mirrors.

Vince

Phil,

Whatever you do, don't loose those pimping fake CF ebay mirrors.

Vince

aka, don't go to Tremblant? is that a hint for Phil?

those mirrors were .99!

so much hate for my ebay mirrors! the shipping was 120% more than the mirrors! And yet again my posts get changed to flame-ville... I love it! This place has been boring lately.
I don't think Akard is too afraid of me Scott!

Come on... if you are going to hit someone's car... hit a body guy. Buy him a few beers and he'll spend all day working on your car.

Vince

Just try not to hit the holesawed section!! (yeah, that means any of it...)

I'm jealous so I'll post pics of the 4 day build before last years WGI event. Car was delivered thursday evening and on a trailer to get aligned monday nite. Made it to the track thursday and got 2nd in CM and 6th overall out of 50 something. BIG thanks to the HMS motorsport boys, Diff Dan and fellow club racers Scott Cassagrande and Todd Merrill!
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Cannot believe it. No love for the Decal Guy that everyone hates when he shows up to do the finishing touches......:bawling:bawling:bawling

Or the guy who almost got divorced to come over and finish up the exhaust!

Jeez, can't even leave people out on purpose.:devillook

I forgot Miguel of Veloz decals for making her look like a race car!
Mike, I can't believe I forgot about you! Thanks for almost getting divorced for me!

And also a disclaimer:
Do not try this at home. Sadly, I am a trained professional. I would have a very hard time doing this to a customers car.
Will it work? Probably. Will I need to put stock rockers back on? I doubt it but I can do it for free in a day if I have to. I'm looking and experimenting on a chassis that I need to get as close to 2280 (with driver) and don't think it's possible without these types of extreme measures.

I'm looking and experimenting on a chassis that I need to get as close to 2280 and don't think it's possible without these types of extreme measures.

Have you considered a dip? RRT lost a significant amount of weight with a dip...you would likely lose even more due to the multiple coats of paint that chassis now has.

Have you considered a dip? RRT lost a significant amount of weight with a dip...you would likely lose even more due to the multiple coats of paint that chassis now has.

What's to dip? There's nothin' left but cage, composite parts and air :D

Jay - I kid, I kid

Too late. I'm gonna do it manly with tools on the under side. I've stripped EVERYTHING down, no paint jobs left. Prob got 20 lbs of in paint material, it was THICK.

Did you find any Willow Springs turn 8 dirt in there while drilling all those holes? :D

Did you find any Willow Springs turn 8 dirt in there while drilling all those holes? :D

:lol Memories! That was the second best off I've ever seen at T8.

:lol Memories! That was the second best off I've ever seen at T8.

The WSIR to Streets bi-pass ;)

I just keep hearing more and more stories bout this poor car! but yeah, found a few pounds of dirt.

Jeez, can't even leave people out on purpose.:devillook

I forgot Miguel of Veloz decals for making her look like a race car!
Mike, I can't believe I forgot about you! Thanks for almost getting divorced for me!

And also a disclaimer:
Do not try this at home. Sadly, I am a trained professional. I would have a very hard time doing this to a customers car.
Will it work? Probably. Will I need to put stock rockers back on? I doubt it but I can do it for free in a day if I have to. I'm looking and experimenting on a chassis that I need to get as close to 2280 and don't think it's possible without these types of extreme measures.

DAMN IT! I was 100% sure i was doing the right thing bringing the car to you til' i saw the disclaimer........

Now i cannot wait to bring it over :evil2:evil2:evil2:evil2

Never seen so many holes in a car, good job.

Never seen so many holes in a car, good job.

No Hugo. We won't drill holes in your car. We have enough like that.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj86/bmw_e24/BMWE46001.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj86/bmw_e24/BMWE46021.jpg

quarter panels are on and moulded in. Looks pimp. Had another secret project to work on also this weekend but still managed to get mine ready for primer so I can paint it this weekend and start the underbody aero/ side exit exhaust. Now if only I can get RRT to email me back so I can get the rest of my suspension pieces! Other car is the new IP car.
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Nice, welds look great.

Any weight?

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So Mig's cage and car are all painted and we can start putting it back together now. Mine should look like a car again and hopefully have all the new suspension and brakes figured out and done in the next 2 weeks for the Mid O race school. Got's ta skool da rookies!

Wow. Very nice welds indeed on the Z. Impressive.

Hey Phil. May I ask you if maybe you went over the top by drilling so many holes in the structural elements of the car? You have a nice cage, but it's not like if it were a tube frame. Usually, cars with a few rust holes will not pass tech (structural integrity). Burt what about 100 of them? Don't take it bad, just asking.

Those are some blangin' new wheels ya got there.

Hey ya'all! Yep! If it wasnot for sossio's help i would be in the _)*&)$&*%^*$^&$%^*()

It was fun though. Lots and lots of work. Back's killing me but it was 2 of the most fun days ive had! Now wiring......:(:(:(:(:(

Thanks Phil! You rock!

(yes, i love the wheels too. i want the mirrors back on too...with LED's) ;)

The mirrors and race wheels will be back on when I finish holesawing them...
Yes, I'm that crazy.
Anyways, weight on what Steve? Mine? or the M roadster? I haven't weighed mine since the glen and that was over 2600 with a 160 lb driver and 17 gallons of gas.
I'm not sure if Mig has weighed his car, we'll know when we corner weight it.

I'm not worried about the holes Massive. SCCA legal which is the rulebook I'm built to and again, the holes aren't random. I KNOW where to cut cars, it's all I do. Look at where the jack is in those pics, try that on a street E36. Hell, I've jacked it off the ground at the weakest point of the rocker and it's barely moving. I'm getting rid of skin, the structure is untouched.

Yea, weight on your car, thanks. It seems you're pretty open about your cars specs, (which I appreciate greatly), and I was curious how your weight loss program was going.

Just please get offset wheels (Or different rear suspension)...those spacers are scary! :)

Just please get offset wheels (Or different rear suspension)...those spacers are scary! :)

I was thinking the same thing. Time to call up CCW or Kodiak... All of those hole saws make me glad I bought a plasma cutter! I'm going to be stripping some weight out of my car soon but I won't be going as wild as you have. Nice work on the Z too.

Very nice cage in the Roadster.

I was thinking the same thing. Time to call up CCW or Kodiak... All of those hole saws make me glad I bought a plasma cutter! I'm going to be stripping some weight out of my car soon but I won't be going as wild as you have. Nice work on the Z too.
Just want to mention that I get pretty good prices on Kodiak wheels. :)

Do you now, Greg?? Hit me up, I was getting ready to call forgeline since I have that $1000 gift certificate from NH for the corner workers choice award. Sale stealer!
Yeah, I got nothing to hide Steve, at least not that I know of. I prob won't be hitting the scales till just before the Mid O race school. By then the new suspension (hopefully -5lbs), the carbon battery (6lbs, which is 10 pounds lighter than the last racing battery I had) and the BBK at all 4 corners (hopefully 10 pounds, stock is insanely heavy) should be on. I think the wheels are going to be heavier than the D- Forces I ran last year but hopefully just a 4 pound difference each. I'll be running the new D-Force mesh wheel up front when the new low offset comes out. By then I'm hoping Clay has released his wide body control arms so I don't need to run any spacers anywhere!
I know it's sad that I get excited by a pound here or there, but my time is free, hp isn't.
Then once I lose all this weight, I can put it all back with an oil cooler and diff cooler! I've got this nice Mocal oil pump just sitting here doing nothing and I have to drop my rear subframe anyways... to holesaw it...:devillook

Oh, and the cage on the M isn't my work, I just painted it. Kenny at Conway in NH did this one, the guy I had posted about when someone was asking bout a good NE cage builder. I love his work, well thought out and seriously thorough. I hate having to chase welds while I'm prepping for paint.

Just make a tubular rear subframe...I was going to do it, but wanted it to be easily replaceable.

You can just slap on some offset E46 sedan arms that he has available (or centered might work better, narrower than e46 m3 arms). You have a widebody already, so you'll be fine. Just make sure you take care of bumpsteer corrections if you go the wide route.

I should have my front suspension mocked up this weekend, just waiting on one sleeve RRT had to make me, replicating the one they have from Ohlins, as Ohlins does not offer these kits anymore, and mine were built from "off the shelf" parts. I'm going to take measurements of the E46 offset arms I got from bimmerworld, and finish sizing up all the hardware.

Oh, and the cage on the M isn't my work, I just painted it. Kenny at Conway in NH did this one, the guy I had posted about when someone was asking bout a good NE cage builder. I love his work, well thought out and seriously thorough. I hate having to chase welds while I'm prepping for paint.

Hey Phil....Kenny is in MA...Scituate to be exact...

Site: http://www.conwayautoworks.com/

As Phil said, great guy and perfect job. I love the fact Kenny pays attention to detail. (Not to say he is anal, like me...) :)

Thanks to Kenny and Phil for getting a sick cage in my car!! Cant wait to continue to work on it when i return next week...GOOD LUCK THIS WEEKEND PHIL!! :buttrock:buttrock:buttrock

Just make a tubular rear subframe...I was going to do it, but wanted it to be easily replaceable.

Did you make any plans/ schematics up??:D I'm trying to find one I can mimic while leaving mine in the car for the races it wouldn't be ready for.

I have my original design in CAD, and I have my adjustable roll center brackets made if you want to buy them :) Its for an E46, but can be used on E36.

You'll need to make mounts for the Diff obviously, and tie the suspension into the cage...so it wont be too easy with your cage already built.

damn it Steve, I like easy stuff. Oh, wait I forgot, I love a challenge. You talking about the drop down blocks PTG used to correct the rear camber arm height?

damn it Steve, I like easy stuff. Oh, wait I forgot, I love a challenge. You talking about the drop down blocks PTG used to correct the rear camber arm height?

Not any correction really, its more of a roll center height change...correction implies something was "wrong", nothing is wrong, its just a setup change, part of the "setup optimization," if you will.

This is the rear control arm setup I made...still using control arms, just not the brackets. The brackets are bolted to a tubular structure built into the cage/chassis. Not something you can just "bolt up" nor is it something that is automatically going to "work." It will take some development and fine tuning. Notice the brackets I made have 4 available roll centers: stock, two below and one above stock roll center height, ranging in approx 90mm. Made of 7075 Alum.

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/2-15-07/main/p2140001.jpg

(Note: Not the right hardware, just for mockup)

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/2-15-07/main/p2140003.jpg



And here it is on an old GTR (several variations of this I have seen from privateer teams here and oversees):

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/ptgsub.jpeg

Nice. Know I'm brainstorming... May have to call you on those.
More pics. Another 14 hour day and everything but the shell is done. First thing in the morning tomorrow, I'll sand the shell and retape and spray it. Put the nose back together while it dries. Then bust out the bender, mig, tig, plasma cutter and good old fashioned torch to start the underbody and side exit exhaust. It's gonna be another long day:(
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No prob, keep me posted. I decided my project does not call for such a modification, so I'd be up for helping you sort out a fully adjustable rear suspension. Although if you do go this route, it will take time to set it up, and 'develop.' Read that as lots of track time :)

Cars looking great, can't wait to see the final weight/result.

Whats the engine plan again? DM 2.8L?

As of now, SM. I'm still looking into soooo many things with possible engine set ups. Too many choices. I am trying to keep it 3 liters or under so I can run restrictor-less and we already have the 2.8 here. Now it's just a question of how crazy do we want to go. EVOsport has been insanely helpful with guidance and direction and possibilities. My junkyard style came up with close to the same ideas in a more ghetto fashion:cool So now, we plan and price and change plans cuz of price and Brad rolls his eyes and wonders why he helped a poor bastard like me! But the cf driveshaft and roof are (hopefully) in the works and I'll just do underbody aero now to put me there legally to start collecting points.
Plus, I'll have a GT logbook so if I ran CM, I could get protested. (at least that's the way I'm interpreting the rulebook)

Yea, the carbon roof/ds will definitely be Supermod...although I wonder if the carbon roof is even allowed? From the way the rules are written, it has to be from a production based part.

Underbody aero might hurt you more than help...since I'm building for BM now, I cross off full underbody aero off my to-do-list. An extra part I don't really want to tune anyways. High speed instability could be a problem.

If your budget is limited, save the crazy projects, and spend on whats needed, using higher quality components. This is how my project ended up, and the easy stuff to add on later, will be done later (carbon doors, trunk, hood). Working out well so far, as i'm within budget with high quality parts...still working on getting the Bosch MS ABS into my car though :)

You're dying for that MS ABS huh??? Roof is still a legit thing for SCCA so I just have to present my logbook. Plus, I KNOW they existed on PTG and IIRC, everything they did got a part number. Just can't find it!
I think that rule was put there cuz of me to begin with, my aluminum roofed E30 got some attention.

I'm already in contact with the Bosch USA Motorsport department thats testing it for US certification. ABS programmer properly can help SO much, not just in laptime, but in time management, and safety (avoiding a spun car, etc).

tell me more about that little battery charger

tell me more about that little battery charger

Got it off my Matco guy awhile ago, what else you want to know??
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I don't look like Holder anymore:(

Those wheels look super lightweight ;)

Is that S14 the secret for the e36? DO IT DO IT, actually throw the s14 in the green container!

Those be his pimpin wheels... ;)

werd up, da wimmen allz bout mah dubs. The S14 is goin in my 750il, that's one of the 3 that'll get a connected crank.

Ok - that looks mean!

Definitely don't look like Holder, ...but I am loving the black! I'm staying black on my car too. Light grey interior.

Those wheels look super lightweight ;)

Is that S14 the secret for the e36? DO IT DO IT, actually throw the s14 in the green container!

Stop screwing around on the internet and finish my diffs.

Vince

Got it off my Matco guy awhile ago, what else you want to know??

Who makes it? I can't read the name because of the cable.

the car looks mean

Hot.

holy crappola......the monstah is screaming for decals!!!!! here i come!!!
:buttrock:buttrock:buttrock:buttrock:buttrock:butt rock

The charger is made by associated. I'll take a close up and post it tonite. Mig, come on down and cover up my pretty paint job:(
She's sitting outside in one piece ready to go, getting lots of compliments. The dark side is growing BWAHAHAHAH!!! I can hit people and blame it on tire scuffs again! Whee!!

Stop screwing around on the internet and finish my diffs.

Vince

Phil wants his wheel back!

lol, I told Dan to hold your diff hostage till I get my wheel back!
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Wing? No Wing? Looks badass!!

We shipped the wheel out to HMS on Monday so it should be there by Wed at the latest... release the diff :)

lol, I told Dan to hold your diff hostage till I get my wheel back!
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Hey Phil, I have a pair of the same quarter panels that you have, and I have been trying to figure out how to attach them for a while and I was wondering if you can give me a few pointers. I am not a body man so any advice would be much appreciated!

How much of the original quarter panel did you cut off?

Did you rivet the panels to the body before you bonded them, and if so, in what areas did you rivet them?

What compound did you use to bond them to the body?

The car is looking fantastic!! Can't wait to see it in full livery, whatever that may be. Nice work!!

Rockin it out wingless, just a lip spoiler. Hoping the car has enough body flex to keep it glued to the track without downforce. Or that it just goes airborne and I land somewhere tropical with no other cars that can beat me.
The 1/4s were a beeeotch... well, the first one was, the second took a 3rd of the time. Ok, remove the spot welds inside the edge of the trunk, along the taillight, under the 1/4 (on top of the rear bumper) till just about where the flare mounts. I left the metal where the flare mounted for the sake of flexed fiberglass.
The front up against the door is the only spot that is moulded in, everything else is rivits. leave the metal at the body side protection moulding line, that's technically rocker not 1/4 panel. Take your time, this wasn't an easy install. I couldn't even tell you how many bodykits I've done and the 1st side took me 14 hours. For a comparison, my zeemax kit on the old car was ready for primer in 12. the WHOLE kit.
and pics of the battery charger:
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The charger is made by associated. I'll take a close up and post it tonite. Mig, come on down and cover up my pretty paint job:(
She's sitting outside in one piece ready to go, getting lots of compliments. The dark side is growing BWAHAHAHAH!!! I can hit people and blame it on tire scuffs again! Whee!!

Thanks for the pics. What kind of paint did you use? I'm assuming it isn't primer

Vince, your diff will be shipped when I get the word from HMS the deal has been done. Any attempts to call the police will result in brass bearings being installed. A piece of your diff will be mailed to you everyday after wednesday till the wheel is in our possesion...
Screw with us and you'll find your car with carbon fiber mirrors....

Nope, not primer. I've tried multiple things on our cars over the years and sadly spray paint held its sheen and looked the best longest. Our JP car is an epoxy primer (getting chaulky) our drag race Nova is an epoxy sealer (not bad but wasn't satisfied) my old car was rattle can and the M roadster and mine are a single stage GM black from PPG with a crapload of flattener (what we mix in to clear to match the underhood colors. We'll see how it holds up. Takes forever to dry, but it's let me play with getting different levels of gloss so each car can still be a little different.

Phil, have you ever sprayed por15's self etching primer and 2part top coat? They are local, and I think I might go pick some up to spray my interior.

The 1/4s were a beeeotch... well, the first one was, the second took a 3rd of the time. Ok, remove the spot welds inside the edge of the trunk, along the taillight, under the 1/4 (on top of the rear bumper) till just about where the flare mounts. I left the metal where the flare mounted for the sake of flexed fiberglass.
The front up against the door is the only spot that is moulded in, everything else is rivits. leave the metal at the body side protection moulding line, that's technically rocker not 1/4 panel. Take your time, this wasn't an easy install. I couldn't even tell you how many bodykits I've done and the 1st side took me 14 hours. For a comparison, my zeemax kit on the old car was ready for primer in 12. the WHOLE kit.


Cool, thanks for the info. Your car is looking awesome! Not looking forward to doing them after hearing how long it took you though! Sounds like a major pain in the ass.

Where you bonded them to the body, what did you use?

Steve, I've never sprayed it just brushed it. Damn, it STICKS. Waaaaaaay better than a similar Wurth product. But if you're talking interior, I use PPG's DP line of sealers with the 401 self etch activator. It is good stuff. Restorations or tube frames I'll do one coat of their wash primer (it burns your skin while its airborne, wear protection!) then the sealer unless it's an exterior panel. Or you can do what we did to HMS' mini and use ALSA's fireproof paint. No shiney but no burny.
VM, I use a fiberglass resin to bare steel, make sure you can reach behind it and push it in and smooth it out. Then a thick body filler (bondo basically) on the outside. You have to sand the inside of the fiberglass panel with 80 grit so it etches.

VM, I use a fiberglass resin to bare steel, make sure you can reach behind it and push it in and smooth it out. Then a thick body filler (bondo basically) on the outside. You have to sand the inside of the fiberglass panel with 80 grit so it etches.

Good deal. Thanks!

Vince, your diff will be shipped when I get the word from HMS the deal has been done. Any attempts to call the police will result in brass bearings being installed. A piece of your diff will be mailed to you everyday after wednesday till the wheel is in our possesion...
Screw with us and you'll find your car with carbon fiber mirrors....

Anything but the fake CF mirrrors.

Vince

Vince, your diff will be shipped when I get the word from HMS the deal has been done. Any attempts to call the police will result in brass bearings being installed. A piece of your diff will be mailed to you everyday after wednesday till the wheel is in our possesion...
Screw with us and you'll find your car with carbon fiber mirrors....

I do have a PILE of cases...maybe we should take a pic hacking one in half! or we could use a holesaw on it!

yeah, that's what i'm talkin bout...

Are there any provisions to allow a BMW powered SCCA Gt2/gt3 tube frame car into BMWCCA? Assuming its a certified chassis to run in SCCA, could it be allowed, in some way shape or form?

That would prob be my next project if it was allowed. run a 1500lb tube frame car with a 1.6l turbo motor :)

The SCCA Provision was really only for the IT classed cars. The rulebook is probably not super clear on that, but that was the intent. Phil's car will run in SM with the proposed mods he has listed (especially carbon roof and carbon driveshaft).

Full Tube Frame cars are not allowed in BMWCCA Club Racing unless they cary a valid and previously issues logbook. GT Tech has a couple of these older grandfathered cars, but he is extremely proud of them.

Ah, ok, so a carbon roof is allowed on cars it was not available with, its just an automatic SM upgrade.

How about Daytona prototype cars?

The SCCA Provision was really only for the IT classed cars. The rulebook is probably not super clear on that, but that was the intent. Phil's car will run in SM with the proposed mods he has listed (especially carbon roof and carbon driveshaft).

Full Tube Frame cars are not allowed in BMWCCA Club Racing unless they cary a valid and previously issues logbook. GT Tech has a couple of these older grandfathered cars, but he is extremely proud of them.

ie: Steve Fitzgerald. And no turbos in GT Steve! 3/4 tube frame is the best you'll get. Jon, i thought the provision specifically said cars with a gt logbook can run in sm but that tube frame would no longer be allowed??

I thought the only mandatory things were bmw engine and no open wheel cars?

I thought the only mandatory things were bmw engine and no open wheel cars?

You haven't read the rule book in a long time have you? :stickoutt

Ah, ok, so a carbon roof is allowed on cars it was not available with, its just an automatic SM upgrade.

How about Daytona prototype cars?

Take a look at the rulebook...both your question about the carbon roof and your question about the DP are answered in the exact same sentence:

The SUPER MODIFIED class is intended for racecars where the modifications exceed those allowed in the Modified classes and, additionally, for those designated purpose-built, BMW-powered racecars which meet the eligibility criteria.The rules go on to list those purpose-built cars that are designated as eligible:

12. Super Modified-Eligible Cars
A. The following vehicles are only permitted in the Super Modified class:

1. Tube Frame SCCA GT and similar lineage race cars with a logbook issued by BMW CCA Club Racing prior to June 2002. Logbooks will not be issued to this type of vehicle effective June 2002.

2. Factory constructed or factory authorized tube frame chassis racecars. a. Chevron
b. Elva
c. Oscella
d. McLaren GTR
e. BMW-powered Daytona Prototypes

Doesn't anyone (besides Randy M) actually read the rulebook?

Take a look at the rulebook...both your question about the carbon roof and your question about the DP are answered in the exact same sentence:

The rules go on to list those purpose-built cars that are designated as eligible:



Doesn't anyone (besides Randy M) actually read the rulebook?

Oh, sorry, I should have clarified...should have put a smiley face. I was actually trying to say, "how about you/i run a Dp car" :)

As for the roof, I was not sure if this was a safety issue, as it could be a hazard to others on the racetrack if it blew off the car...I know its beyond what a normal mod car is, so its SM...but since it specifically states previously about the OEM, I thought maybe it was for a safety reason. I guess its not though, and it just gets you an SM tag. Thanks.

Doesn't anyone (besides Randy M) actually read the rulebook?

LOL - I make it a point to read it almost daily - but I have to admit, Randy reads it with a slightly different purpose in mind, and he is GREAT along with Akard at finding "advantages".

i've been hearing about randy... lol thinking outside the box!
So now I'm confused, can I carbon my roof or what?! I'm not tubed framed dammit!!!

i've been hearing about randy... lol thinking outside the box!
So now I'm confused, can I carbon my roof or what?! I'm not tubed framed dammit!!!

It has to be either BMW OEM with a BMW part number or an exact replica of a BMW OEM roof that has a BMW part number. Were there carbon roofs available for E36s from BMW? If the answer is no then your answer is no.

Randy's car is a NASA GTS3 ringer, cracks me up that he managed the impossible. He built a ringer for *two* series not just one. I'd probably cry too if one club changed the rules on me early in the year. You rules committee meanies! :D

Cheers,
Carlos.

It has to be either BMW OEM with a BMW part number or an exact replica of a BMW OEM roof that has a BMW part number. Were there carbon roofs available for E36s from BMW? If the answer is no then your answer is no.

That is absolutely true for a Mod Class car. Super Mod is a different beast altogether, and I would say that a Carbon Roof is acceptable in SM where an OE or OEM part did not exist. But, I am not a Rules Official on BFC - I just play one on TV. :)

A clarification would make it sure, but I have NEVER EVER seen a "clarification" for a SUPER MOD Car. First for everything!!!

I'd probably cry too if one club changed the rules on me early in the year. You rules committee meanies! :D
What rule/s got changed on him?

very nice

A clarification was issued that stated an E36 with an S54 motor from an M Roadster had to weigh the same as an E36 with an S54 from an E46 M3.

That is absolutely true for a Mod Class car. Super Mod is a different beast altogether, and I would say that a Carbon Roof is acceptable in SM where an OE or OEM part did not exist. But, I am not a Rules Official on BFC - I just play one on TV. :)


I guess I don't know what class Phil is shooting for, I read something about SCCA GT(2?) but if he doesn't do anything too crazy he can remain in DM/CM.

Carlos.

A clarification was issued that stated an E36 with an S54 motor from an M Roadster had to weigh the same as an E36 with an S54 from an E46 M3.

Actually it was a rules change.

-Carlos.

Actually it was a rules change.

-Carlos.

Yes, you are correct - a mid season rules change.

Actually it was a rules change.

-Carlos.

i thought it was called cheating :eek: j/k

ahh CR list, sometimes its gold like today's anonymous "racers/pussies" post.

its a shame the "loophole" was closed like it was.

Randy's car is a NASA GTS3 ringer
not really...Randy's car took advantage of the one rule that gts has (power to weight classing) but is not even close to being an all out gts-3 build (no limits on aero, body mods, tire width, suspension, etc)...he really only had a little bit of a power/torque advantage...no doubt his car is fast in gts-3 trim and with him driving it's a potent combination but when someone truly builds a gts-3 ringer, that class won't be fun anymore (assuming they can drive) ;)

but when someone truly builds a gts-3 ringer, that class won't be fun anymore (assuming they can drive) ;)

True, true. Alright enough thread jacking of Phil's Grim Reaper II thread.
:)

Carlos.

ahh CR list, sometimes its gold like today's anonymous "racers/pussies" post.

:buttrock

alright, I get to be the first to make a rules clarification in SM. Good times. Can't wait till they say no to me. Gonna be a pita to mould an E46 roof on but at least it'll have the part numbers.:)
Thread jack away, I'm not on the cr list. Screw spending $15, they should be paying me to listen to the whining.

YAY,white's back!! i missed ya!

i've been hearing about randy... lol thinking outside the box!
So now I'm confused, can I carbon my roof or what?! I'm not tubed framed dammit!!!

....definate pussy, not a racer

If you think that's pu$$y, y'all gonna hate this. Cars for sale. Make an offer, goes up on ebay soon. Time for something different. If you're worried about the rockers (cuz you're a pu$$y) I can replace them.
Don't worry, I'll still be running SCCA enurance races so I'm sure I'll see you guys there!

Wait, what? You're selling it now? What happened? Did the IRS come for an audit?

Yea...wtf? I'm confused. Time for something different, you did not even finish it. If this is true, sorry to see the project stopped, hopefully it'll find a good home.

Possible pipe dream, but there's something else I've wanted to do for awhile that's just hundreds of times cheaper. If I can get what I want for the car, she's gone. It always had a price anyways, everything does! It's pretty now and I'm out of cash at this point.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280208937375&ih=018&category=98061

Many different series, SCCA GT1, let alone all the circle track stuff. Cheap, easy and I'm an ex chevy drag racer so I know what I'm doing basically.
Plus, me and Arjun and Tim Smith have our enduro car coming shortly so I'll still be BMW.

boogity! boogity! boogity!

Montoya, Franchitti, Speed, and now you too :D

here's some info on flatblack paints, I'm thinking about giving the Dupont "Hot Rod Black" near the end of the thread a try.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=390376

There is a group of guys that run Nastrucks in Ct/NJ/PA, they are pretty damn fast on the road courses...although they do make up most of the time on the straights, that 750hp they have comes in handy lol

Best of luck!

damn, that's a pretty p car!! I hate that I love euros so much... I should never have gone to lime rock when I was 17, drag racing was soooooo cheap:(

There is a group of guys that run Nastrucks in Ct/NJ/PA, they are pretty damn fast on the road courses...although they do make up most of the time on the straights, that 750hp they have comes in handy lol

Best of luck!

we'll see how it goes, I've been hearing a lot of "NNNNOOOOOO!!!!!!" from everyone. I mean crap, under 2 min at the glen is moving and yeah, 750hp doesn't hurt my feelings!
Either way, the project will continue as I put on the rest of what I've got. She's all cosmectically done so side exit and brakes and fluids are this weekend and suspension next weekend.

we'll see how it goes, I've been hearing a lot of "NNNNOOOOOO!!!!!!" from everyone. I mean crap, under 2 min at the glen is moving and yeah, 750hp doesn't hurt my feelings!
Either way, the project will continue as I put on the rest of what I've got. She's all cosmectically done so side exit and brakes and fluids are this weekend and suspension next weekend.

Too much build-up to quit now. The holy widebody reaper MUST make it through to the end...with Phil at the wheel! ;)

Phil, if you sell it I will hunt you down and . . . . .

lol, buy it back Jon!! My luck ain't good enough for it to sell quickly. I just remembered ofest with Holder coming....

lol, buy it back Jon!! My luck ain't good enough for it to sell quickly. I just remembered ofest with Holder coming....

I would buy it back Phil, and since there is SOOOOOO much less of it now (due to your massive hole saw massacre) it will cost FAR less right?!?!?!? :)

If you think that's pu$$y, y'all gonna hate this. Cars for sale. Make an offer, goes up on ebay soon. Time for something different. If you're worried about the rockers (cuz you're a pu$$y) I can replace them.
Don't worry, I'll still be running SCCA enurance races so I'm sure I'll see you guys there!

:stickoutt
I'll fix that!

Sounds like a mid-life crisis to me...
hold on tight

I (thankfully/ hopefully) have a long time before my mid life crisis! I wanted to sell before last season but the car was a pail. I'm not sure this will ever be as good as it will be again right now.

I'm not sure this will ever be as good as it will be again right now.

Voted Best Sentence on BFc 2008.

Voted Best Sentence on BFc 2008.

Ha! It's like a Yogi Berra quote: "The future ain't what it used to be." :D

Jesse, the door panel template is on its way.
Cheers,
Carlos.

It's early in the year still, someone will top it!
So who's coming NASTYCARin with me?? We can scab a transporter and work eachothers draft... sounds like dirty fun time!
Man o man, these cars are cheap and I think I might be allowed to try to qualify at a busch race if I swing a new enough setup. I'm gonna hit sooooo many cars out of my way and not get in trouble.

It's early in the year still, someone will top it!
So who's coming NASTYCARin with me?? We can scab a transporter and work eachothers draft... sounds like dirty fun time!
Man o man, these cars are cheap and I think I might be allowed to try to qualify at a busch race if I swing a new enough setup. I'm gonna hit sooooo many cars out of my way and not get in trouble.

Shake'n Bake! Haaaa.... I'd be there! But I just spent my last billion on my Mini. :(:D

eh, sell it.:D
I've learnt to not get attached I guess after losing a few race cars. R.I.P guys!!
I'm gonna have to learn all new verbage. and lose my beantown accent before I get shot. By a shotgun.

FU Phil. Your car looks badass in person. I mean it looks like crap - I hope nobody buys it!!!

Jesse, the door panel template is on its way.
Cheers,
Carlos.

Thanks Carlos, huge help. I owe you a beer.

I'm gonna have to learn all new verbage. and lose my beantown accent before I get shot. By a shotgun.
ah, so now you can put on a bumper stickers that read

"I'm not speeding, I'm qualifying!"

and

"I'm not tailgating, I'm drafting!"

:redspot

:lol
classics

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So the foam is almost done, dorr fits nicely now and I won't have to worry about the sucking in on fast straights anymore. Listening to my forum guru's, so I just have to figure out some way to put an aluminum plate on my door bars... I have a few ideas that won't ruin my paint!
So the brakes are done, and looking pimping, and a few random things are done. So hungover so I didn't get as much accomplished as I wanted. But side exit should be done tomorrow and then suspension next weekend.

Is that actual IMPAXX Foam? That must have cost a FORTUNE for that much foam!!

I don't wanna say and scare people away from it... It was under a grand....
Big ouch, but we are all about safety! It came in a bigger chunk, it was pre made for NASCAR and their door bars. Fitting it took a few hours.

You encasing that foam in kevlar of something Phil?

We're figuring a carbon x pillow case basically. Any ideas? Jeff said something about them using nomex.

Shake'n Bake! Haaaa.... I'd be there! But I just spent my last billion on my Mini. :(:D

THAT JUST HAPPENED. I tried not to listen to Phil today at the shop. BUT DAMN IT! saving money........cheap races.......fast cars......hit'n go......doesnt sound bad.

lots of busch cup cars for sale....

It looks like your car is crapping out Jeff! :lol

shouldn't you be playin forza?

We're figuring a carbon x pillow case basically. Any ideas? Jeff said something about them using nomex.
To work right these foam barriers need to be encapsulated in a shell. The encasement of choice seems to be Kevlar. Under impact Kevlar stays in tacked, but it turns back to it's pre epoxied state of soft cloth. Well, kinda, but it won't do is turn into shards like glass or even way worse, carbon. This is why the inside layer of my drivers door is Kevlar and the outside layer is carbon.
But anyway, it must be a solid casing to work or else the foam just not absorb the shock. If it's left in a "pillow case" type of encasement then it just does not work.
No, not an expert at all, but this is what I understand.

Just so you guys know, I kind of got sponsored by DOW, and have tons of information on Impaxx, as well as the contracted company who takes care of coating the foam.

It does not need any casing, it just needs proper support on the cage (I would suggest steel not aluminum also). The COT packages are only coated with a fire retardant coating, and precut to fit on the chassis in two peices. Do you have a source that is showing the requirement for the encasement?

I have a 2'x3' block they sent me, and I'll probably be fitting it soon, once I finish the door bars.

The foam will dissipate whatever for is exerted onto it, it only need the panel on the cage to dissipate the energy into. When confined to this space it will concentrate the load onto the plate on the cage. Remember, we're not talking small point loads, we're talking, at the greatest, the corner of a car, which can end up compressing instantly to 1-2'+, otherwise the corner of a barrier is about the smallest thing you would hit that has a small contact area. Check the COT application.

Phil, I'll send you the material specs if you want, you need this one specific type of coating that will work with the foam and is of the proper fire retardant compound.

All the foam thats is "above" the Xbrace is useless, cut it out...unless you plan on running a true nascar support system, which means you'll have tubes running horizontal at your shoulder height to support the foam.

All the foam thats is "above" the Xbrace is useless, cut it out...unless you plan on running a true nascar support system, which means you'll have tubes running horizontal at your shoulder height to support the foam.

You calling my fancy new armrest useless?? I was planning on plating that high, bad idea? Steel?? c'mon... 22 guage ok? Yeah, I've got no clue about this stuff, and HMS is in the process of learning about it. Teach us Steve!

I can only relay the info I have been told, by both DOW, and the companies contracted to distribute the COT modules to the teams.

Funny enough I just read an article that said they made a change to the 2007/2008 impact implentation and they are using 22guage for a part of the module support structure (over the exhaust). This leads me to think 22 guage is ok. When welded to the cage, it will be in tension when the force is exerted, and even that thing stuff will handle a very large load when distributed throughout the panel. I am getting confirmation from a distributor of the material on its requirements, and if alum can be used...and if so, what the equivalent thickness would be. I would say alum is a no go since you really want to weld it to the cage to have the best fastening method.

The only thing required if you plat that high is a horizontal tube to mount it to so it can withstand some decent amount of force.

I called DOW for about 2 weeks trying to find the right person to talk to, and I finally got through to the right person...the had of the nascar program at DOW. Very helpful and very knowledgable about the R&D. 18 months it took them to develop Impaxx.

FYI, November 2007 Dow Automotive IMPAXX™ energy absorbing foam was named the “Safety Innovation of the Year” today by an international panel of motorsport experts at Professional MotorSport World Expo.

I was googling and came across this...interesting (well, to us nerds anyways lol). http://www.dynamore.de/download/af06/papers/D-III-1.pdf

It's too bad that it's so expensive, that'll turn most people away from it.

Yea, there are alternatives though. The problem is its an expensive item to produce, and they need to cover the very high R&D costs.

This is the other alternative foam I know of: http://www.rollbarpadding.com/prod_SFI452.html

Nice. I would suggest you become a sponsor of this forum quick though :)

Nice. I would suggest you become a sponsor of this forum quick though :)

Would love to....any idea who i need to contact, etc??
Thanks!
M

Look up and to the right. There's a link "Advertising with Bimmerforums"

hurry! The modz will pwn you for that

That's a big no no here Mig. Can't sell without sponsoring, hence no link to my website or HMS. They'll delete your post for ya when they see it.

Thanks for the info Miguel!

SORRY! SORRY! Obviously, im a newbie here. I contacted them (Bimmerforums people) earlier this afternoon. Would love to sponsor. Waiting on their reply....

Sorry if i screwed up... :( no intention at all...

mig

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That's an interesting tail pipe? .. ;)

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'ok, side exit is ghetto but the measurements are right for flow (minus the tight bend:mad) and my only option since we wanna keep our passenger seat.
long day. Not done yet, still got a few things/changes to make

** it, lets all buy nascars

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'ok, side exit is ghetto but the measurements are right for flow (minus the tight bend:mad) and my only option since we wanna keep our passenger seat.
long day. Not done yet, still got a few things/changes to make

wow dude.....looking sick!!! :buttrock:buttrock:buttrock

What measurements were done for flow?

Phil sans is my hero!!

We all know you got some help on this because there's no way that you wrote "Pi" on anything!!!!

Go Phil! What are you going to wrap that in so that it doesn't burn the crap out of the plastic fantastic?

Just the measurements to get the right amount of flow from changing round to flat for the 2.5 rounds to go into an 3/4 inch tall opening. Not me, some dude that makes a 4000 lb car do 10 flats in a 1/4 mile with a small block and no FI. Smartest wise @$$ I know. No actual tests were done, it's almost dyno time and we'll see what happens. 40 whp loss probably. the little baffle inserts are just an attempt to shut it up, it's loud.

Phil sans is my hero!!

TIM TIM TIMMMMAAAAAYYYY!!! Introduce yourself mofo! Eh, I'll do it for ya. That is HMS/ Schroth Tim, the master behind the hardware saving our lives and one of the 3 rookies we'll have out this year running our "spec FM" car a few of us are thinking of doing. Basically my old GT3 E30.

TIMMMMMAAAYYYY!!! bienvenido..........rookie like me!

Is there no way to have the exhaust exit the tunnel and run behind the pass seat coming out the rocker?

Is there no way to have the exhaust exit the tunnel and run behind the pass seat coming out the rocker?

then I'd be in the cage:(
So she's hung, driveshaft safety loop is in and I'm tired.
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And the resonators are skid plated cuz they were hurtin.
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A soon to come project. So, solid mounted exhaust is making nervous. Doesn't seemto be vibrating the car though. But I think I'm going to try to rubber mount it somehow.

So, solid mounted exhaust is making nervous. Doesn't seemto be vibrating the car though. But I think I'm going to try to rubber mount it somehow.

I can almost guarantee you that your exhaust mounts are going to crack on your first weekend. We had our exhaust solid mounted in what looks to have been a stronger setup than what you've got there and we still ended up with cracked welds and broken mounts. Find a way to sneak some rubber bushings in there.

Solid mounted exhaust will fail. The tubing is thin, gets hot, and is subjected to vibes - it's only a matter of time until it breaks.

I have built exhaust brackets that use springs to hold the exhaust. This allows the exhaust tubing to grow axially and move around a lot while still being supported. Very easy to make too. I don't have any pictures but here is what I did: I welded a threaded stud to the support bracket then hooked a long skinny coil spring to it, wrapped the spring around the exhaust tube, hooked the other end of the spring to the same stud and secured it with a nut and washer. The coil spring doesn't need to be streched much, just enough to support the sytem. It is kind of hard to estimate the best coil size but you can find suitable springs at the hardware store, just buy a few sizes and return the ones you don't need.

Yeah, I figured. More to do anyways. I was stuck up till 1 thinking of better ways and I think if I turn the 2 pipes into 1 sooner, I can avoid the hard bend. Basically a big 90 degree still buta roval pipe. Plasma cutter and welder time again. New suspension, bearings, rear spring arm deletes, and poly bushings are here, just waiting on some stuff from Ground control and it looks like she can be scaled, balanced, aligned and dyno'd next week. hoorah

damn dude....let me know when i can come by to hand you tools!!! lol....

Im working the Smart Car tomorrow during the day...

Also doing my side net, window net and finishing the dash. I'll need your brilliant cabecita to help me with the wiring....NOT looking forward to it. ;)

MORE PICS!!

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most of the suspension, other stuff will be here friday. Good call on the spring mounting the exhaust, isolated the other mounts. And built my cheese grater end cap for quiet tracks. good times. Just gonna shield the skirt tomorrow and call it good till friday and relax for a bit. Let Mig do some stickering.

Can anyone remember what tire sizes Holder was running??

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:rock:

Can anyone remember what tire sizes Holder was running??280/650 front and 280/680 rear.

Can anyone remember what tire sizes Holder was running??

PTG ran
280/650/18 Front
285/690/18 Rear

When I was running Dunlops, I ran
either 250/640/18 or 280/650/18 Front on 18x10 wheels
285/690/18 or 310/710/18 Rear on 18x12 wheels

When I ran Yokohamas, I ran
280/650/18 Front (01 Compound) on 18x10 wheels
280/680/18 Rear (00 Compound) on 18x11.5 wheels

Sweeeeet, sounds good. Trying to copy you!!

:rock:



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Nice VAC die-cut :devillook

Jay

Nice VAC die-cut :devillook

Jay

Hmmmmm.
I Xacto knife modified the required sticker to remove excessive ugliness.....

A swiss cheesed exhaust tip...how appropriate!

I thought it was appropriate! It's not staying on, just wanted to see if I could shut it the hell up. Neighbors get pissy at 1 am. So do I, it's LOUD. I wouldn't pass me on my right.
+1 to Akard, VAC's get "modified". I'm protesting CP!!!!:redspot CM points!
Front suspension, new UUC sway bar, wheel bearings and whatever else is in. My MASR bar was starting to hit the oil pan under load it looked like...:help
That could have been real bad.
Rear subframe is on the floor and ready for tomorrow. Missing one spring though.
Exhaust sheilding stuff from Jegs will be in tuesday and then off to Mid O!!
Pics later, I'm tired

Nice VAC die-cut :devillook

Jay

Yes and it is also ILLEGAL since they won't approve it. I guess I have to stick the bigger than ever multicolored one some where on the car... I may try Mike's way on the original sticker since it is smaller. The "improved" clear background one won't really fit on the rocker.

Chris

Protest away Phil. In order for it to be effective, I have to finish in front of you!!

Yes and it is also ILLEGAL since they won't approve it. I guess I have to stick the bigger than ever multicolored one some where on the car... I may try Mike's way on the original sticker since it is smaller. The "improved" clear background one won't really fit on the rocker.

Chris

Protest away Phil. In order for it to be effective, I have to finish in front of you!!

I'm waaaaaaay to lazy to protest. That requires doing stuff, I'm all set with stuff.

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So the rear is in but the springs are too short. Thank god for Mr. Clay! Gotta say seeing my caller ID at 10 at nite saying Clay calmed me down a bit. He knows what I need and I'm sure I'll be instructing at the race school thanks to him!:redspot

So we got cracking on some of the other cars that are going to VIR. That'd be a sweeeeeeeeeeet wing mount, huh??

What sized springs did you have in the rear, in the picture you took above?

Starting to look like a race car!
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i like the graphics! =)

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Vinyl by Veloz decals should be all wrapped up tomorrow. No VAC sticker until the last second, it just looks awful:(
PLEASE LET US DIECUT THEM!!!!

So, almost done and time for props!
Clay and Bimmerworld are bailing me out huge, and he's always gone above and beyond and helped me out of big fiascos!
Arjun at UUC has been helping me source everything I've needed, even if I needed something from another vendor!
Veloz decals, that's kinda obvious!
Diffsonline, getting me all sorts of stuff and getting me out to relax on occasion!
Evosport for all the info and guidance
D-force for helping me figure out wheel possibilities
And of course HMS motorsport since I wouldn't be able to race without them!

And also a big thanks to everyody responding to this thread, your ideas helped a lot!

What sized springs did you have in the rear, in the picture you took above?

8 inch height, adjusters all the way up... Evosport can tell you how they worked that magic!

i like the graphics! =)

I thought you might! Thanks Brad!:D

What do you do if you decide to run a rear sway bar? Do you have a parts list of what you ended up getting for your upper control arm?

I start inventing I guess?? IDK honestly.
The arms are VAC.

What do you do if you decide to run a rear sway bar? why would you want to do that? :D

Seriously, this chassis was set-up to run without a rear sway bar and we found it faster that way.

Your car has also run without one at Ca Speedway when dale raced it in USTCC. He found it to be faster also, not sure why or if it did go back to a rear sway bar.

Thanks
Brad

jeez, everyone drives an old EVO car these days?!

Yeah, I'm running no rear bar right now since that's what most of the setup sheets said. But, I like the idea of being able to I guess since I don't have enough time in the car to know that I'll never need a rear bar.

I like the tubular upper control arm, seems like a good idea to save some weight. Plus it looks cool (except it's not red, wtf).

jeez, everyone drives an old EVO car these days?!

No, mine's an old MPACT car. But Dale@evosport used to drive it...

Don't get me goin on the different colors!:mad

It's kinda like a rainbow. I won't say it, but uh, you know, uh... you have something to tell us?

234062

234063

Vinyl by Veloz decals should be all wrapped up tomorrow. No VAC sticker until the last second, it just looks awful:(
PLEASE LET US DIECUT THEM!!!!

So, almost done and time for props!
Clay and Bimmerworld are bailing me out huge, and he's always gone above and beyond and helped me out of big fiascos!
Arjun at UUC has been helping me source everything I've needed, even if I needed something from another vendor!
Veloz decals, that's kinda obvious!
Diffsonline, getting me all sorts of stuff and getting me out to relax on occasion!
Evosport for all the info and guidance
D-force for helping me figure out wheel possibilities
And of course HMS motorsport since I wouldn't be able to race without them!

And also a big thanks to everyody responding to this thread, your ideas helped a lot!

Phil:

Major bad moves for not mentioning the Wisconsin Cheese Trade Association for their exhaust pipe sponsorship. Clay and the others we know about, please don't forget the little guys, they work hard too!

That new exhaust covering is critical to the introduction of their new carbon loaded cheese (extra tangy).

I am a little guy too.

Chris

jeez, comedians galore! I'm making my seasons hit list as we speak....:stickoutt

Seriously, this chassis was set-up to run without a rear sway bar and we found it faster that way.


you mean this car specifically or the E36 in general?

How do you get in/out of the car with the driver door pinned? Aren't those fiberglass/CF doors?

jeez, comedians galore! I'm making my seasons hit list as we speak....:stickoutt

That would be out of work comedian to you!! I will see you in T1!

Chris

through the window. Yeah, carbon skins.

you must be pretty flexible. :eyecrazy

still young I guess!

Seriously, this chassis was set-up to run without a rear sway bar and we found it faster that way.

Your car has also run without one at Ca Speedway when dale raced it in USTCC. He found it to be faster also, not sure why or if it did go back to a rear sway bar.

Thanks
Brad

Now is that just this car due to the coilover valving and spring rates? Or does this apply to lots of race E36's?

A lot of people don't use one, I used to. Trying it for the first time without it

you mean this car specifically or the E36 in general?

Now is that just this car due to the coilover valving and spring rates? Or does this apply to lots of race E36's?
e36's and e46's in general. Not specifically this car. We do not and have not run rear bars on any e36 or e46 class car for a very long time.

thanks
brad

Now is that just this car due to the coilover valving and spring rates? Or does this apply to lots of race E36's?

As Brad said, this can/does apply to most any E36/E46. I've seen fast setups done both ways, but I tend to prefer the driving dynamics of the car without the rear bar. We actually run a pretty small bar (compared to most) up front as well and attach it to the control arms (where it creates less spring rate than the strut mount), but that's doesn't tend to be very fast on cars that don't have roll center geometry, track width and other changes to help reduce roll.

As Brad said, this can/does apply to most any E36/E46. I've seen fast setups done both ways, but I tend to prefer the driving dynamics of the car without the rear bar. We actually run a pretty small bar (compared to most) up front as well and attach it to the control arms (where it creates less spring rate than the strut mount), but that's doesn't tend to be very fast on cars that don't have roll center geometry, track width and other changes to help reduce roll.Yep - what he said!

I know it seems odd getting advice from me on what is safe to cut, but I've got a $50k dollar frame machine. I can experiment and let you guys know what worked and what didn't.

This was posted in my thread, but my question is more appropriate here.

So with all the 'speed holes' you made, did you do a before and after test?

thanks for the info on the rear sway bar. don't mean to hijack the thread, i'll search more.

This was posted in my thread, but my question is more appropriate here.

So with all the 'speed holes' you made, did you do a before and after test?

Before and after test?:confused
It's been on my frame machine so I know where I'm at now and I'll be checking it out as I go. The reason I'm not that afraid is because the cage is gusseted or welded to the inner rocker. I'm not saying that there isn't structure in a box, just going with the fact that I'm tied in enough. Worst case scenario, I'm wrong and I've got some welding to do. I've never been wrong before though, so I'm not too scared.:D

Before and after test?:confused
It's been on my frame machine so I know where I'm at now and I'll be checking it out as I go. The reason I'm not that afraid is because the cage is gusseted or welded to the inner rocker. I'm not saying that there isn't structure in a box, just going with the fact that I'm tied in enough. Worst case scenario, I'm wrong and I've got some welding to do. I've never been wrong before though, so I'm not too scared.:D

Ahhhh. I guess it is just a body shop frame machine. The way you said it in the original post I thought it was something that could load the chassis and measure deflection. I'm retarted.