through the window. Yeah, carbon skins.

Phil, I would recommend either seeking a formal Rules Clarification on the pinned doors or being prepared to put some hinges and latch mechanism on the driver door at the track since there may be a chance that some tech steward(s) may not permit your SCCA legal car to participate in our Mod or SuperMod classes without driver door that opens due to safety concern(s).... Unless the car has a BMW CCA CR logbook recognizing its SCCA GT legal status dating back prior to the tube-frame cutoff date in 2002. It would be a real shame for a "safety concern" to prevent you from participating after a long tow to a BMW CCA CR event like it did for someone else in '06. Since SAFETY is paramount, all it might take is one opinion that since the rulebook specifically says in Prepared that both of the doors must open from inside and outside and then nothing is specifically stated in the Mod class rules permitting pinning them shut...it might be a really good idea to have all the bases covered...just in case. ;)

BTW... The car is looking good. Not so sure about that exhaust tip, but otherwise it's looking mean and fast! :cool

Phil, I would recommend either seeking a formal Rules Clarification on the pinned doors or being prepared to put some hinges and latch mechanism on the driver door at the track since there may be a chance that some tech steward(s) may not permit your SCCA legal car to participate in our Mod or SuperMod classes without driver door that opens due to safety concern(s).... Unless the car has a BMW CCA CR logbook recognizing its SCCA GT legal status dating back prior to the tube-frame cutoff date in 2002. It would be a real shame for a "safety concern" to prevent you from participating after a long tow to a BMW CCA CR event like it did for someone else in '06. Since SAFETY is paramount, all it might take is one opinion that since the rulebook specifically says in Prepared that both of the doors must open from inside and outside and then nothing is specifically stated in the Mod class rules permitting pinning them shut...it might be a really good idea to have all the bases covered...just in case. ;)

BTW... The car is looking good. Not so sure about that exhaust tip, but otherwise it's looking mean and fast! :cool

That would be odd, since his doors have always been pinned on...?

That would be odd, since his doors have always been pinned on...?

OK. Sorry. I'm not challenging the legality of the doors or anything like that. The only thing I was trying to do was warn Phil that since there are different stewards at the various events around the country and our rule book does not specifically permit pinning....AND...some folks MIGHT consider the lack of having at least the driver door that can be opened from both inside and outside the car to be a SAFETY concern. I know I wouldn't be at all happy if I made the 16+ hour tow to TWS in June to be told I couldn't take the track because of someone's opinion about what is and/or is not legal or safe enough to race. That's it. Nothing more. I like Phil and his car. Not taking shots at either one.....other than that exhaust tip! ;)

Thanks for looking out for me Mike, I can always use a father figure!:)
I've had them for 4 years, Fitzy has had them pinned for 10 years. I AM tech now also, so that should help. ;)With the IMPAXX foam and the required steel plate for it, they couldn't get me out through anything but the window without un-doing a lot of bolts and rivits. Doesn't hurt to ask I guess, but Marty and Scott Hughes never seemed to mind.

ok, rules request went in. I probably just screwed myself by asking:(
But the law is the law. Anyone have full doors for cheap that I can cut to shreds for the door foam to work???

ok, rules request went in. I probably just screwed myself by asking:(
But the law is the law. Anyone have full doors for cheap that I can cut to shreds for the door foam to work???

"swiss cheese" them baby!! lol :buttrock:buttrock

Thanks for looking out for me Mike, I can always use a father figure!:)
I've had them for 4 years, Fitzy has had them pinned for 10 years. I AM tech now also, so that should help. ;)With the IMPAXX foam and the required steel plate for it, they couldn't get me out through anything but the window without un-doing a lot of bolts and rivits. Doesn't hurt to ask I guess, but Marty and Scott Hughes never seemed to mind.

Sorry. IF you get told no, I'll be double sorry as I had ZERO intention of causing a problem for you. BTW, Fitzy's car would have potential to be included in those cars grand-fathered in under the pre-2002 portion of the rule I guess since you're saying it's been that way for 10 years. I can't imagine how onasled's little lexan vent windows might be deemed a "safety concern" or "illegal", but they have....just because the rules don't specifically list them as being permitted....IN MOD of all things!!!!

Truly, I meant absolutely NO HARM. Having witnessed someone being told to take the car back home WITHOUT RACING after towing nearly 1000 miles to the event for a "safety concern" after having an Annual Tech and racing the car a few weeks prior from a different steward, I wouldn't want ANYONE to EVER encounter similar disaster. :eek: It's really tough to base so much money (with fuel costs for towing these rigs what they are these days) on someone's opinion for rules interpretation. That's all I was trying to say. Sorry if it indeed causes you any trouble whatsoever as that was NEVER the intent. ;)

BTW.... I'm really liking the IMPAXX foam idea. Planning to explore doing the same to my car in the future. :cool

ok, rules request went in. I probably just screwed myself by asking:(
But the law is the law. Anyone have full doors for cheap that I can cut to shreds for the door foam to work???

You and I might be able to work something out.

BTW, it says they have to be openable. It doesnt say it has to be the stock latches.

:devillookhttp://fmjmotorsports.com/images/door.jpg

so are you still going the stock car route once this is done or are you going to keep it?

so are you still going the stock car route once this is done or are you going to keep it?

Still the plan, but might keep this one in the corner. Let HMS school with it and make some special apperances:)
Mike, no worries. :) You're not wrong. It would suck. I didn't know Onasleds windows got deemed illegal. Checca is gonna be ripped. Should have protested him at NHIS for the overall...:rolleyes
SCCA is still my primary concern. It's got rules, do's and do not's. An end basically. I've never been a fan of CCA rules, and I'm a big hater of NASA's attempt at a rules set. The reason I built this way (to SCCA) was cuz it had an end (VERY specific rules) and they were very receptive to any rule change when good information or reasoning was provided. And they put an end to any possibility of an advantage no matter who it affected. If the club bans pinned on doors (I would hope they would allow it in SM) then it makes me just run SCCA, doesn't matter to me. My friends/ customers are the reason I go, they would just follow me to SCCA. Crap, I've already had 8 guys tell me their dropping out of VIR if I don't go. Makes me weirded out that they allow titanium engine hardware in stock but make them run their gloveboxes. If my doors weren't legal but motorsport cages with head restraint seats is ok but have less removal room, that's just odd. I always looked at the doors as a safety feature to get me out, the chances of a corner worker having a set of the Jaws of life to get a broken latched steel door is pretty slim. I just want to build a race car, heard somewhere real race cars don't have doors.:)

Mike, the impaxx is money but I think I have a way to make it much easier to install, Steve and I have been going back and forth on it. He's going with more of a cage tied in design possibly and I'll be doing a plate that runs in front of the door bars and attaches to the A and B pillars and rocker lips along the spot welded seam where the door gasket sits. The aluminum is ready to pick up, just too busy.

I spoke with the company that distributes the foam to nascar, and they gave me specs on how to install it, and what gauge is appropriate.

To work properly, it needs to be attached to the cage with either rivets or welds, preferably welds. It will be in tension, so it should be welded accordingly, and restrain it in all directions.

I'm planning to panel the "X" brace, and have the sheet flange in toward the rocker panel, creating a large lip for the foam to sit in. So it will have a base and backing to distribute any load forces it should [hopefully never] see.

But basically, as long as it has something to support the reaction force, and there is a safe cage behind it, it can only help.

Alum or steel can be used. I'll probably use steel so I can weld it to the cage. The other option is to weld steel tabs along the tube, and rivet alum to it...although the weight of all the rivets and tabs would probably be the same as a large thin panel.

Once I get these Apillars done I'll be cutting it, special coating it with a specific 3M undercoating (like a truckbedliner), and painting it with this special fireproof coating made specifically for it.

Let me know what the coatings are, I may be able to get it cheap from my suppliers and ship you some or ship me your foam and I'll spray them together. I'm all about the cost effective!!

I gave you the one contact for the "proprietary" coating thats mandated http://www.tpr2.com/nascar.htm. . The other 3M coating is 3M 08804.

I have to get clarification from the Materials engineer I spoke with at Dow, i'm not sure if the 3M product is an alternative, or in addition to the TPR2 product. I'll let you know what they say, I just shot an email to one of the engineers I was in contact with at DOW.

Quick note, they are alternatives. The 3M product must have a fire retardant additive, and the TPR2 product can be used by itself. The 3M product is like a truck bed liner.

leaving for Mid O tomorrow.... Wish me luck!!

Luck!!!

leaving for Mid O tomorrow.... Wish me luck!!

DUDE! Have a blast. Take lots of pics of the car!!! Good luck bro. Wish i was there...PLEAZZZZE bring it back in one piece lol

:buttrock:buttrock:buttrock:buttrock:buttrock

Just weighed it...2358# with some gas

Just weighed it...2358# with some gas

NICE!! Was that with helium??? :)

Seriously, I think that is 175 lbs lighter than when I had it.

WOW! I gotta admit I was expecting a much lower number, but I had no idea that Holder was racing it at 2530+. However, after checking my old notes, I forgot that my e36 was about the same weight. :eek:

It's no small wonder why some folks think my engine is stronger than it really is.... the driver of a 427cu in Corvette ZO6 with over 600rwhp was questioning my car after I passed him at Barber this past weekend. E30s are awesome at helping a really big driver level the playing field somewhat. ;););)

Yeah - the E30's are LIGHT!! My E46 is 2550 without me in it.

WOW! I gotta admit I was expecting a much lower number, but I had no idea that Holder was racing it at 2530+. However, after checking my old notes, I forgot that my e36 was about the same weight. :eek:


So I gotta ask, what's the E30 weigh dry? I need to have a target to shoot for ;-)

So I gotta ask, what's the E30 weigh dry? I need to have a target to shoot for ;-)

Don't worry, mine hasn't been acid dipped or even having been stripped of the undercoating on the remaining factory sheet metal. After following your build thread a bit, the target weight for your car should be significantly lighter than my car's previously published weight of 2175. ;)

Don't worry, mine hasn't been acid dipped or even having been stripped of the undercoating on the remaining factory sheet metal. After following your build thread a bit, the target weight for your car should be significantly lighter than my car's previously published weight of 2175. ;)

I'm not so sure about significantly lighter-you hit dimishing returns pretty quick, but that is about my target. You will have significantly more power than my m20 ;)

My E30 was 1980 with 12 gallons.... I build a mean roof....

So basically, I lost 60ish pounds and that's with the heavy wheels. CF roof, driveshaft, and aluminum diff casing and a few other things, I think 2200 is do-able. I have to be 2380 with driver for SCCA.

My E30 was 1980 with 12 gallons.... I build a mean roof....

So basically, I lost 60ish pounds and that's with the heavy wheels. CF roof, driveshaft, and aluminum diff casing and a few other things, I think 2200 is do-able. I have to be 2380 with driver for SCCA.

Don't worry, mine hasn't been acid dipped or even having been stripped of the undercoating on the remaining factory sheet metal. After following your build thread a bit, the target weight for your car should be significantly lighter than my car's previously published weight of 2175. ;)

Tunerzine.com published that weight in 2005.

We've tweaked the car a bit since then, but we're still totally legal in DM. Original roof remains (there is not a BMW OEM composite roof available for an e30 so using one would put the car in SuperMod) and nothing we can do to lighten the driveshaft by any significant margin in Mod (CF shafts are actually less expensive than building a custom-length BMW OEM shaft with serviceable joints, but still only permitted in SuperMod). We saved a few pounds with a lighter diff, improved sunroof panel, cutting some unnecessary sheet metal, removal of lots of original wiring harness that was still in the car, and switching to a composite dash panel (within past few weeks). But, I haven't had the car back home in TN since early 2006, so I honestly have not seen it on the scales to know exact current, obviously improved weight of the car. ;) It does, however, sport 18x10 wheels, 355mm rotors, and a 22gal cell that might be adding enough to make it so much heavier than your 1980lbs. ;)

Lightest Dash panel is no dash panel :)

Have you looked into getting new driveshaft/output shafts done, like the ones from cartridge?

Lightest Dash panel is no dash panel :)

Have you looked into getting new driveshaft/output shafts done, like the ones from cartridge?

New dash panel costs $500.00, looks very similar to stock, and weighs something like 3lbs. :cool

I talked to some folks at PRI show, but I don't think they were "cartridge". The rules in Mod only recently permitted other (than stock) metallic materials, so there wasn't much point in pursuing it a few years ago. I've spoken with several folks about the CF shafts for my SM car, but basically have simply done some simple machine work on factory BMW parts to reduce driveline rotating mass a bit. Those CF shafts are really sweet and not very expensive compared to rebuilding stock components properly. Seems somewhat silly to prohibit them in Mod, but we're going to keep the car legal in Mod regardless. ;)

3lbs too much lol

I think cartridge is outside your $300 chassis budget ;)

The 1 piece carbon driveshafts are nice...if/when I eventually move to supermod, it'll be a nice addition.

Here are some of their components, I would use the stuff Evosport uses though.

http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=529&stc=1&d=1136190671

Axles/driveshafts: Specialty metal shafts, ceramic CV balls, aluminum removable dust covers, enhanced boots, specialty metal fasteners.

http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=888&stc=1&d=1155120370

3lbs too much lol

I think cartridge is outside your $300 chassis budget ;)

The 1 piece carbon driveshafts are nice...if/when I eventually move to supermod, it'll be a nice addition.

But it looks pretty good.;)
LOL, yep....probably so! :)
That was our plan for the V8 SM car, but I've been approached to sell the already completed V8 engine we were planning to use....so I may totally abandon the V8/e30 project in favor of putting another S50B32 based project in the new chassis race in one of the Mod classes on the proceeds from the sale of that custom-unobtainium V8. ;););)

3lbs too much lol

I think cartridge is outside your $300 chassis budget ;)

The 1 piece carbon driveshafts are nice...if/when I eventually move to supermod, it'll be a nice addition.

Here are some of their components, I would use the stuff Evosport uses though.

http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=529&stc=1&d=1136190671

Axles/driveshafts: Specialty metal shafts, ceramic CV balls, aluminum removable dust covers, enhanced boots, specialty metal fasteners.

http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=888&stc=1&d=1155120370

SWEEEEEEEEEET! I would love to have some output shafts (since the rules don't prohibit the use of such in Mod) if the price is anywhere near reasonable. Where can I get more information?

Price is not reasonable. Cartridge Ltd is a very high end professional motorsport contract design/manufacturing company...Porsche ALMS, F1, etc. These are projects on his Z8 (zero miles i think) to demonstrate their capabilities.

Price is not reasonable. Cartridge Ltd is a very high end professional motorsport contract design/manufacturing company...Porsche ALMS, F1, etc. These are projects on his Z8 (zero miles i think) to demonstrate their capabilities.

So, I take it that you're saying they probably cost more than my whole car....AFTER being built into its current state. ;)

They make some amazing stuff, i'll leave it at that.

So did Phil bring his BMW and his Nascar to the track this weekend? ;) lol

Left the NASCAR at home, it's raining like a MOFO!

She's still running... Looks like dry time tomorrow:redspot

I have to start last everypractice start to scare rookies.

Gonna have to do better than that to scare me. :D


So I'm lining up to do the 3-wide exercise and Phil pulls up behind me. Great. I get to drive 4 laps right off the exhaust side of his car. My ears are still ringing.

My E30 was 1980 with 12 gallons.... I build a mean roof....

So basically, I lost 60ish pounds and that's with the heavy wheels. CF roof, driveshaft, and aluminum diff casing and a few other things, I think 2200 is do-able. I have to be 2380 with driver for SCCA.

P 44 9A of the CR rules. Drive shaft must be the original material.. in Mod.

Chris

PS This from a guy who has an illegal sticker.

P 44 9A of the CR rules. Drive shaft must be the original material.. in Mod.

I'm pretty sure he's building for SCCA GT and letting it fall where it may in BMW CCA.

Yep, what Bryan said. So... Handles horribly with the new stuff (900 front/450 rear) and lost all torque.:mad Brakes are INSANE. Think I have my plan for the exhaust to get my torque back. So, any suspension ideas?
Basically, turn in was pretty good, mid corner it would plow a bit, take a set (hunch down) 4 wheel slide, then snap the rear VIOLENTLY. It really was horrible. Just glad I didn't hit anyone while I was fooling around with it. Not enough time to play in between sessions. :(
Basically, my old setup was 600 front/ 800 rear and I loved it. Is there some way to make a full coilover setup equivelent? What's the "math" to moving the springs location?

Phil, ... yea, the setup you have now has understeer written all over it I would think. All of this of course depends on what you are using for swaybars. With those rates I would hope that you are running a very small front bar and a hefty rear.
But, I'm absolutely no expert here. Just my thought.

Phil, ... yea, the setup you have now has understeer written all over it I would think. All of this of course depends on what you are using for swaybars. With those rates I would hope that you are running a very small front bar and a hefty rear.
But, I'm absolutely no expert here. Just my thought.

Those rates aren't that far off from what we run. Onasled, you've gotta remember, the front strut suspension needs a LOT more spring to work well as compared to the back. More spring rate doesn't always result in less grip up front. Even with Phil's old 600/800 setup using the stock rear spring location, he had significantly more wheel rate up front than in the rear.

We run similar spring rates to Phil's new setup with a decent sized front bar and no rear bar...I believe that's what Phil is doing as well? Our car is one of the most forgiving cars I've ever driven, for what it's worth.

Noted, we're now dealing with wider fenders, wider tires, different suspension geometries, etc, etc, so what works on our car may not necessarily translate over to Phil's car in the same way that guys running 245/255 tires under stock fenders can compare their suspension setups.

Phil - What kind of dampers are you running now? Have you stepped up to something a little more racey than Koni's? At that level, getting your dampers right will go a long way as well.

Still planning to come to VIR?

New dash panel costs $500.00, looks very similar to stock, and weighs something like 3lbs. :cool

I miss that dash... sigh

Basically, my old setup was 600 front/ 800 rear and I loved it. Is there some way to make a full coilover setup equivelent? What's the "math" to moving the springs location?

Everything you need is in this thread:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363408&highlight=motion+ratio

In post #5, Barry gives you the numbers you need for both the front and the spring and damper mount in the rear.

Phil...I did some quick napkin math based off the numbers posted in the thread I linked above. Assuming my math is right and taking the bars our of the equation, the percentage difference between your wheel rates front/rear isn't that much different (only 3-4 percentage points I believe) between the two setups.

Yep, what Bryan said. So... Handles horribly with the new stuff (900 front/450 rear) and lost all torque.:mad Brakes are INSANE. Think I have my plan for the exhaust to get my torque back. So, any suspension ideas?
Basically, turn in was pretty good, mid corner it would plow a bit, take a set (hunch down) 4 wheel slide, then snap the rear VIOLENTLY. It really was horrible. Just glad I didn't hit anyone while I was fooling around with it. Not enough time to play in between sessions. :(
Basically, my old setup was 600 front/ 800 rear and I loved it. Is there some way to make a full coil over setup equivalent? What's the "math" to moving the springs location?What shocks are you running? Are they adjusted and matched to the new spring rates? Can they handle the spring rates? Slicks or DOT-R's?

Phil, ... yea, the setup you have now has understeer written all over it I would think. All of this of course depends on what you are using for swaybars. With those rates I would hope that you are running a very small front bar and a hefty rear.
But, I'm absolutely no expert here. Just my thought.
What b.Watts said below!

Those rates aren't that far off from what we run. Onasled, you've gotta remember, the front strut suspension needs a LOT more spring to work well as compared to the back. More spring rate doesn't always result in less grip up front. Even with Phil's old 600/800 setup using the stock rear spring location, he had significantly more wheel rate up front than in the rear.

We run similar spring rates to Phil's new setup with a decent sized front bar and no rear bar...I believe that's what Phil is doing as well? Our car is one of the most forgiving cars I've ever driven, for what it's worth.Agreed. We run rates (ran rates very close to that in Holder's car - YOUR CAR NOW PHIL! lol). We run them a lot.

My bet is that the shocks need the work, not the spring rates. Again, is this slicks or DOT-r?

If it is DOT-r, then I do think you are too stiff all the way around (especially for the weight).

Thanks
Brad

oooo, some much attention! I love you guys:D
Um, I don't have money, so AD's for me, plus Dan decided to stay DM and keep the motons.:(
I was on 4 year old hoosiers that have been sitting outside for years... Didn't help, I know. But it felt more like a bind. I will be on slicks, probably Bryans scrubs. Going with Jon's old sizes and I have a set of Read's sized yok's since they are the 2 people I know who have run "this" car. I only have 3 adjustments to my shocks, and never got good weather (constantly varied) to try new things.
Rear bar is impossible for me Greg, tubular suspension now and I wouldn't trust their strength vs a bar.
Swiss cheese holes didn't buckle at least.
Bryan, as of right now VIR isn't looking good. I don't mind hurting my car but don't really want to mess up and take someone out. It really is THAT bad right now. I only did 3 flyer laps this weekend, and it scared me. Yeah, me. and I'm crazy. Plus, $4.60 a gallon for diesel hurts my wallet a LOT. It cost me over $700.00 to take an open aluminum trailer to Ohio.:( That was a good chunk of the new wheels I need

I wouldn't change anything and go out on fresh tires and see how it feels. Old tires do weird things.

Phil - VIR may sound expensive, but where else will you have that many guys in the paddock to help you get the handling problem diagnosed and tons of track time to test with? Your problem really doesn't sound spring related. It sounds damper related to me when you start talking snap oversteer. Any idea what the dampers are valved to or what spring rates the previous owner was running? Your spring rates are just too similar to ours for me to think that's the cause of anything absurd happening with your handling.

I wouldn't change anything and go out on fresh tires and see how it feels. Old tires do weird things.

Good point...I just reread what Phil said about the tires. That could very easily be the problem. There's no way to know how tires that old that have been sitting outside are going to react. I noticed major handling differences on our car after 2-3 heat cycles in the same day, much less a tire that has sat outside for years.

Everyone being there is the reason for me wanting to go. Trying to figure out a way to get all the cars there if me and Dan came up for wednesday. But, it's 1 of 3 new cars, so I've got more problems hiding. Ok, 250/ 290's work for tires front/rear? Or should I start with even all the way around? IDK what the valving would be, they were off of a race E36 though, 700's up front, 800's rear. He had them on the middle setting and said the car was great. I've got them all the way down in the front and almost all the way up in the rear to get a good enough rake, going to get the rest with tire height difference. I'm going to take the bump stops off the front and put a zip tie and see if I squish it to see if maybe I was locking the fronts...

Phil - VIR may sound expensive, but where else will you have that many guys in the paddock to help you get the handling problem diagnosed and tons of track time to test with? Your problem really doesn't sound spring related. It sounds damper related to me when you start talking snap oversteer. Any idea what the dampers are valved to or what spring rates the previous owner was running? Your spring rates are just too similar to ours for me to think that's the cause of anything absurd happening with your handling.AGREED!

Good point...I just reread what Phil said about the tires. That could very easily be the problem. There's no way to know how tires that old that have been sitting outside are going to react. I noticed major handling differences on our car after 2-3 heat cycles in the same day, much less a tire that has sat outside for years.AGREED!

Everyone being there is the reason for me wanting to go. Trying to figure out a way to get all the cars there if me and Dan came up for wednesday. But, it's 1 of 3 new cars, so I've got more problems hiding. Ok, 250/ 290's work for tires front/rear? Or should I start with even all the way around? IDK what the valving would be, they were off of a race E36 though, 700's up front, 800's rear. He had them on the middle setting and said the car was great. I've got them all the way down in the front and almost all the way up in the rear to get a good enough rake, going to get the rest with tire height difference. I'm going to take the bump stops off the front and put a zip tie and see if I squish it to see if maybe I was locking the fronts...
Use the 280 all the way around
what height front spring?
IMHO, AD's should work and lesser Koni's did fine on that car when holder had it
try a 275/300 in the rear
try a 650/700 front
start all settings SOFT on shocks
if it is is corner exit/throttle on snap overstear, then your rear is most likely too stiff


It is hard to give specific set-up without being the primary one setting up the car.

thanks
brad

Easiest thing to do is try to find somewhere local to setup a skid pad, or even a figure 8 if there is room. You can diagnose (and correct) many issues with some very basic skid pad testing.

Spring rates can essentially be setup on the skid pad under steady state conditions, but obviously if one track is significantly bumpier than another, it would use a softer spring.

We were on the skidpad a lot at RRT, and its amazing (and comical sometimes lol) when you see a car that can't make it around the skid pad without either spinning out, plowing off course, or just being flatout undriveable.

I have some closeup shots of the tires I took during one of Watts skidpad days, and its pretty cool to compare cars that have been "developed" vs. cars that were just assembled and raced.

We're not talking the last 1-2% of setup, we're talking substantial differences you can see from 75' away...you can't fine tune the car until you get a solid baseline done, otherwise you will chase setups for many years without finding something that actually works.

Springs are the 5", rears are 9" (tallest eibach makes I guess) Was going to be buying all sorts of springs, I'll start on the low end for the rear. I already have from 500 to 900 fronts in 50lb increments.

Steve. Good call, didn't even think of that. Car is loud though and my shop is over flowing. Need to think of somewhere else I can do it. Maybe just do it at VIR thursday... wonder if they would mind? I was out there last year trying to force my HG issue.

Bryan's a smart guy, huh Brad?? I hope he isn't just using me for points!!

Springs are the 5", rears are 9" (tallest eibach makes I guess) Was going to be buying all sorts of springs, I'll start on the low end for the rear. I already have from 500 to 900 fronts in 50lb increments.

Steve. Good call, didn't even think of that. Car is loud though and my shop is over flowing. Need to think of somewhere else I can do it. Maybe just do it at VIR thursday... wonder if they would mind? I was out there last year trying to force my HG issue.

Bryan's a smart guy, huh Brad?? I hope he isn't just using me for points!!
If you use H&R springs, you can go shorter then 5" in the front, FYI. 5" is a pretty tall front spring for that car with A/D's IMHO. I don't think we have run a spring that tall in a very long time on any Mod car here.

thanks
brad

I wouldn't change anything and go out on fresh tires and see how it feels. Old tires do weird things.

I'll throw another +1 to this. I've driven plenty of tail happy cars, but the only time I drove a car that was prone to the true snap oversteer was when the car was on really really old tires with all useful grip gone. Not saying you don't have something else going on, but definitely get a decent set of tires on the car in order to do any kind of meaningful testing.

Really?? No one tells me anything:( I suppose I should ask. So, do you happen to sell said springs?? This thing def looks like a truck up front.

well, yes, your friendly CR sponsor evosport is a source for all kinds of race-like things! :D

235637

235638

New front splitter might help... Thought I would say it before Onasled did. She's not bad in the rain, visibility wasn't horrible without a wiper. SOOOO dirty now. Loading some more pics in a minute. So much for selling her, now I've been challenged with something.

I can here my old boss now Stamping his foot into the ground with his stoner southern draw " now Brandon (my name is Brendan) Never ever chase a handling issue with old tyres"
bad memeories

All kinds of race things you say?? Wow, what a helpful sponsor! All club racers should consider themselves very lucky to have such helpful contributers!
I'm available for commercials when you need me, my plastic smile is 100% perfect.
Tell me what I'm buying. You can put it here or email/ pm me. I'm going to post it here anyways to be a contributer anyways. Are they like 2" tall or something, cuz that would freak me out...

Oh, btw. I didn't have a pyro, but I did get a couple chances to take pressures. (yes, it was that busy at the race school) I could NOT get the fronts up. The rears came up fine. Seemed strange and worth mentioning.

And BTW guys, thanks! Sharing info is what makes this the group I love to run with and makes me not want to crash into you!

I can here my old boss now Stamping his foot into the ground with his stoner southern draw " now Brandon (my name is Brendan) Never ever chase a handling issue with old tyres"
bad memeories
In my field, the quote is "Don't waste clean thoughts on dirty enzymes."

Okay, so I'm a nerd ....

-tammer

:lol

Seriously Phil...just get to VIR. Between guys like Battle, Clay, Randy, etc running around the paddock, we'll get your car dialed in. And if not, we'll have a good time trying.

Seriously Phil...just get to VIR. Between guys like Battle, Clay, Randy, etc running around the paddock, we'll get your car dialed in. And if not, we'll have a good time trying.

Hey, if everyone else drives, I can spend more time drinking... I like where this is going... It's more of a money thing but I'll figure some way to swing it.

Well, you know Clay ALWAYS shows up to the track without a car to drive. And I suspect Seth will be walking around the paddock with his helmet. Randy isn't listed with a car. There's 3 sessions taken up right there. You'll barely have to do any driving.

Phil - I thought I had video of you spinning yesterday but it came out like crap. It would've shown how serious your snap oversteer is. Wanna bring my car down to VIR too and see if anyone can fix it?

Yeah, I'll be talking to Clay tomorrow I'm sure and see if he's game to play. It's def hard for me to set up at a track I"ve barely driven and my minimal time was with a spec e30.

Phil - I thought I had video of you spinning yesterday but it came out like crap. It would've shown how serious your snap oversteer is. Wanna bring my car down to VIR too and see if anyone can fix it?

Have you posted the problem? It's so odd, SOMEONE has to have come across it before. You thinking of doing the race? It's not a BMW school group, it's a vintage race group.

Phil,

Start with New Tires. Then get yourself some new tires. And finish by buying a set of new tires.

Can't tell a DAMN thing on old tires. I lost over 4 seconds a lap just going from crappy scrub Dunlops to brand new Yokohama Slicks at Laguna Seca. At that point I was committed to new tires each weekend until we had a setup I liked, then I could run scrubs and absolutely know that the car would come into its own once I ran the new tires.

Also, the rear tire for that car is considerably taller than the front. 280/680/18 REAR and 280/650/18 front. The fenders are DESIGNED for a tall rear tire. PTG said it helped increase bite and becasue of the bigger air space made the tires come up to temp more evenly during a race. At least that is what they told me when I was stealing some of their scrubs at a pro race out here in California.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your spring rates - tires and damper curves/settings are where I would focus.

Car goes up in the air tomorrow night hopefully. If I cant figure it out after a few things are out of the way, I'll post it up. I wish we had more time and you could've taken it out.

Between getting the actual license in my hands and finishing the little things needed to be legal, making the race would be a photo finish. Add in fixing the current issue and its not going to happen. It's a chance to let the budget heal too since it got its ass kicked all winter long. If I can get away from work, it'd be nice to swing down to the track and hang out for a day. I have family down there so trips to VIR are an easy excuse.

[end hijack]

I forgot to ask, have you checked your driveshaft/ bearings? I mean, seriously, there can't be many options left. Other than that, check everything on the tops of your struts. There is no hi jacking my thread, it's sporadic all the time.

Jon, I'm following your lead man! I just don't want to screw the car while I try to get it back to it's former glory!

Checked the diff mounts and rear subframe mounts. Trans mounts are (obviously) new now, motor mounts are good, guibo/flex disc looks good. I cant see the center support bearing on the driveshaft b/c of the exhaust, but it was replaced and the d/s was rebalanced maybe a year ago. I'm hoping once its up in the air and the exhaust is down it'll be something obvious. Front end stuff isnt ruled out either even tho there is no play in the new-ish tierods or BJ's. :dunno

I was dying watching the last race from the tower!!

The only symptom I can remember that is similar is when our KP cars left top shock nut came loose. And then again on our JP car, except the nut was tight and the bushings had play.
If it's not steady state, then its something loose, not broken. It's bouncing. The only weird part is that you said it gets worse over time. Unless it's because you're building speed.
I can promise that you'll laugh when you finally find it cuz it will prob be something simple.

Good call on the shock tops and camber plates, didnt think of that. I'll pull em tomorrow.

I'm going to laugh and then go beat the absolute balls out of this car.

Tons of time coming up at NHIS this week, SCCA race school/ race, Boston BMW, SCDA...
LMK what you find.

Phil - Based on the Mid-O thread, I think I can guarantee better looking girls at VIR.

Phil - Based on the Mid-O thread, I think I can guarantee better looking girls at VIR.

Why, petco near by? Won't be hard to top...

Phil - Based on the Mid-O thread, I think I can guarantee better looking girls at VIR.

South > Midwest, no question.

South > Midwest, no question.

Hey now. Go to a steakhouse when at VIR and get a girl to show you b00b, that is the real challenge. It's not like we went looking for hotties or even a real bar, things just sort of degenerated to a morally casual attitude once the manly cougar came in and the band started to play.

And besides we'll need proof that the SE > Midwest (as in piccies and vids).

:D
-Carlos.

I'll get pics Carlos, no worries!

So found out what happened to my power... Could have been destructive. The baffles that I welded in (pices I cut out of my supertrapp) broke out and went sideways. Stuff must have been cast or just too old. Thankfully, they were perforated so they didn't stop flow. So that's being dealt with. Tired!

Spent some time on the phone with Brad and discussed options about the handling woes. He's the man. New stuff on order, time to get
looowww.

Wait and see if it works to make such a proclamation about me! lol

I can say that already! Just so everyone realizes how cool Evosport is, I've probably talked to/ emailed Brad 10 times in the last month. I STILL haven't bought anything from them!! I will, damn it but Brad is just helping cuz he can. That makes you da man!

She's ready for tune session 2. Brad was the man again and bailed my sorry ass out. Lot's of pics and some HD vid when I get home from VIR!

Good luck at VIR!

ok, so body damage and an engine in pieces. or as I like to call it, phil went to VIR again. Sorry for the lack of punctulization, i'm eating bagel bites.
Damage is all set mostly, head should be back soon. but pics prior to vir! big thanks to John Mariani of BPG for the emergency alignment!
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And 2 things...
1. Does CCW have a website or distributor on here? May go with onasleds guy, but I really only want to buy 4 (rears only)

2. See attached pic. Where do these philips head 1/4 turns come from??
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Last pic is panels for paint round 2!

Have you tried Pegasus?

Jay

Find a distributor for http://www.skybolt.com/

ccw:

http://www.ccwheel.com/files/home.php

WTG Phil!

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/advcat.asp?CategoryID=HARDQR
Pegasus, just ordered a bunch of em.

We need pics of the damage!!!!

HMS Jeff has all the pics from the weekend, I try not to take pics of damage. Body is good to go. Minus that 1/4 turn y'all just helped me out with! Thanks for the link to the wheels, IDK why yahoo search didn't work.

if you do CCW, I can give you the exact specs for the wheels for that car. CCW is what holder had. We have ordered them for 3 or 4 cars with that kit.

Cool, I'll hit you up in a bit! Ordering stuff after payday, end of the month bill collecting is leaking over. Damn racers!! Do you guys retail them? I'm gonna go with 18x 11's from them for the rear most likely but stick with 280's for now. Front's are going to be the new D-force mesh with the low offset, 280's there too since I'm still plowing and fine tuning with mismatched tires just seems even harder. So I just have to pick a matching sort of style. I'll order 2 more rears before the Glen, just have to deal with swapping tires for a bit.

Btw, I'm still waiting for the springs I had ordered before I talked to you! We think they got lost in the shuffle while we were away, at least I'm hoping that's what happened.

the classic line of wheels has no resale. You buy them from John at CCW. I can set you up with what to order though.

How did you like the springs we sent (I cannot believe that you have not gotten the others)?

Talk to you soon!

thanks
Brad

:redspot My doors are legal!! Back to CM! maybe. Now to ask about roofs;)
Busy weekend, downloading pics now. Brad, sending a pm bout the wheels.

So I finished the last 2 bearings in the rear trailing arms so now every bushing or bearing is brandy new. And todays project was floor tunnelling so I can go low.
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I put an Audi rubber in, hope it doesn't make my car break more often or get worse to work on. It's a failsafe since now the tire will impact the tub first, then if I got a flat that rubber would impact next, then if all hell breaks loose, next up would be the upper arm against the subframe and I ain't moddin that.

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And the pics of the prototype Schroth rightside net!
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You must be running a much smaller rear tire than me! I ran the 680 height tire. Are you running hte 650?

With the 680 tire, the tire would hit the top of the fenderwell before any suspension arm would hit anything, and the springs would have to get to coil bind for that to happen. In other words, it just didn't happen.

Yes, the rear of the car ran with a rake, but with the front not tubbed, it looked good.

Are you going to tub the front too?

Yeah, smaller tire while I try and sort stuff out. I FINALLY understand how yours was after studying it yesterday. But my suspension is just different. If I wanted to, I didn't HAVE to tunnel the floor but I figured why not while I screw with stuff, safer I believe.
Not sure about the front yet, thinking about moving the towers up and doing a tube nose. But, the rear heaight is sooooo adjustable down, there wasn't much taller I could go.
Man, your taller tire thing just really hit me... It would have been impossible for you to get bind.

damn dude looks good so far

Thank you:)

Ok, oil cooler, head, euro oil filter housing, AN fittings, custom rad/ oil cooler, and head are almost here, gonna be a busy weekend as usual. I don't think the are gonna make it on time though, i ran out of money to order them. Might have a new house though, wish me luck today!

Might have a new house though, wish me luck today!

Hmmmmmm

House, race car, house, race car, which one???

Good luck with the house.

Chris

Easy choice...You can live in your house or your car, but you can't race your house :)

Easy choice...You can live in your house or your car, but you can't race your house :)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gourYCpaJLU

Easy choice...You can live in your house or your car, but you can't race your house :)

You have not see my house!! JK

Top Gear ROCKS!!!!!

What a GREAT way to start my morning! That video is nothing but too funny.
Thanks Greg ;)

Easy choice...You can live in your house or your car, but you can't race your house :)

http://blogzarro.com/images/becky_nerdy.jpg

lol, funny b@sat@rds. Got outbid already, not worth the extra to me. Oh well, keep shopping. Heads coming back tonite!!!

lol, funny b@sat@rds. Got outbid already, not worth the extra to me. Oh well, keep shopping. Heads coming back tonite!!!"heads" - did you drop a v8 in there when we were not looking? :stickoutt

head's

That's the Boston abbreviation. Left coasters don't understand sometimes...it's ok

jeez Brad, donchaknow?? we gots our own puntuationless lingo:embarrasm
V8 has been a thought, for a long long time. GT1 acceptance is all I'm waiting for, since engines are the next project. Would have to be 550@ the wheels minimum I would think though, GT1 is around 700 whp max.

Parts are rolling in! big weekend coming!

Parts are rolling in! big weekend coming!

Yeah - I drove 50 miles yesterday to get Phil head

I mean to GIVE Phil head

Um um um I mean to get Phil his head

Whatever...

sorry Mike, bad visual...

a-yup

sorry Mike, bad visual...

Mike has to subsidize his racing somehow...

like i'd pay for him.



Vince, the mirrors died:(

Yeah - I drove 50 miles yesterday to get Phil head

I mean to GIVE Phil head

Um um um I mean to get Phil his head

Whatever...

Now thats what I call a good friend :shifty

almost ready for round 2...:devillook
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One more night and another alignment and I'm good to go I think. Head went back on rather uneventfully, DME is still questionable IMHO. Anyone have a 413 car with dummy lights still working?? The injectors came back, 2 failed for being too far out of spec, but they're good now.

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looks good. what are you using for a splitter? is your rear diffuser a custom job?

thankee. Front is aluminum and a lower valance from a 98 chevy yukon. Sometimes having a junkyard is handy. The rear is the start of a reallllllllly long ongoing project, test feelers so to speak. Need to see what grinds.

Nice, whats your current wet weight?

Also, one quick suggestion. Your pressure sensor thats mounted to the oil housing, I would suggest running that off a small hose. They have a tendancy to break off when mounted directed to the housing.

Really? That ones 8 years old. What do I use?
With driver and enough fuel for a sprint, 2340 with Jeff in and the heavy wheels. All the new wheels from D-force are in and the CCWs are here wednesday so hoping for a little lighter.

Oh really? Then nm :) Keep that setup then. I've seen a couple crack from vibration, since those threads are not terribly strong and create a huge stress riser.

2340 wet with driver? Nice, thats almost E30 territory ;)

Oh really? Then nm :) Keep that setup then. I've seen a couple crack from vibration, since those threads are not terribly strong and create a huge stress riser.

2340 wet with driver? Nice, thats almost E30 territory ;)

Wow! That's getting down there really light for a widebody e36 wet with driver! ;)

Wow! That's getting down there really light for a widebody e36 wet with driver! ;)

I was about to say...don't tell Akard how light you are :)

Really? That ones 8 years old. What do I use?
With driver and enough fuel for a sprint, 2340 with Jeff in and the heavy wheels. All the new wheels from D-force are in and the CCWs are here wednesday so hoping for a little lighter.

Very Nice!!!!!!

Looks great!!

I was about to say...don't tell Akard how light you are :)

LOL!
Guess I need to dust-off my hole saw AND push away from the table! :):):)

You can borrow my holesaw Mike! You'll have to add some welds if you haven't stich welded yet;)
Trying to figure out what I need (besides lots of money!) to get the E30 aluminum diff casing in this car. I do have a min weight for SCCA (2380, penalty for IRS), but I think I could pull off 2260 with a light driver and more carbon/ aluminum/ money.
Steve, the oil pressure thing must be proof that they don't build things like they used to!

That....or you ain't driving fast enough ;) lol

You can borrow my holesaw Mike! You'll have to add some welds if you haven't stich welded yet;)
Trying to figure out what I need (besides lots of money!) to get the E30 aluminum diff casing in this car. I do have a min weight for SCCA (2380, penalty for IRS), but I think I could pull off 2260 with a light driver and more carbon/ aluminum/ money.
Steve, the oil pressure thing must be proof that they don't build things like they used to!

What happens when we get so many holes there isn't much left to "stitch"? :eek:

Is there anything lighter to use than a stock e36 case without switching to e30 diff? ;)

Will you be permitted to run a wing in SCCA (I'm assuming your planning to run in GT2)?

IDK, was thinking ford 9 inch but not sure of its weight. Or holesaw the casing! Lol, if we holesaw enough, we'll only need briggs and strattons! Those have light diffs!
Gt2, 6 inch height, flat plane wing only. Running this to make my co driver happy.
You ready for Mid O, Mike???
Steve, i goin fast!!!

Trying to figure out what I need (besides lots of money!) to get the E30 aluminum diff casing in this car.

Doubt it takes much money...just fabrication. RRT runs an E30 diff casing in their car with an E36 diff cover IIRC. Best of both worlds. They just modified the E46 subframe and then cut some access holes in the chassis to allow removal of the bolts.

But can those little diffs take the abuse for long from a big CM/Bm motor?

But can those little diffs take the abuse for long from a big CM/Bm motor?

It's the same 188 gearset as in the E36 and E46 (non-M3). You've just gotta avoid going to too low of a gearset or pay the expense to switch to a Motorsport gearset...the ring gear is too small on a 4.45 to handle the torque of build CMod motors. Based on our experience, 4.10 is probably as low as I'd go with a decent amount of torque (S54+) before switching to either the stronger 188 Motorsport gears or to the larger 210 gearsets (where you'll have to go for the $$ Motorosport gears to get that low of a ratio anyway).

It's the same 188 gearset as in the E36 and E46 (non-M3). You've just gotta avoid going to too low of a gearset or pay the expense to switch to a Motorsport gearset...the ring gear is too small on a 4.45 to handle the torque of build CMod motors. Based on our experience, 4.10 is probably as low as I'd go with a decent amount of torque (S54+) before switching to either the stronger 188 Motorsport gears or to the larger 210 gearsets (where you'll have to go for the $$ Motorosport gears to get that low of a ratio anyway).

well said!

also note: the e46 doesn't use the exact same gearset as the e36, but the ring gear is the same size.

Whats the advantage of the E30 casing, weight? Can you mount it securely enough with just that one side "ear"?

True.

If you have the torque (big s54 or turbo something) you will not need a shorter ratio. You can go pretty tall and still be safe. I crunched the gear/shift charts for most of the tracks we hit on the east, and for a turbo m52 only revving to 7000, with the E46 6 speed a 3.62 will work great. Since you have monster torque all over, you can pull the same in any gear and save time by not having to downshift and upshift again.

For the extra weight, I felt the 210 was worth it. Realistically its not that tiny bit of weight thats going to win you the race, more likely its the fact that the car held together in one piece race after race :)

also note: the e46 doesn't use the exact same gearset as the e36, but the ring gear is the same size.

I'll defer to the guy who uses Shockproof Superlight as cologne on that one.

Whats the advantage of the E30 casing, weight? Can you mount it securely enough with just that one side "ear"?

Considering that it has 4 bolts that bolt UP into the chassis (a much better connection style than the E36), yes. And you can also bolt on the E36 diff cover if you want two ears for your rearward connection.

The E30 casing has two advantages that I can think of:

1) Better mounting configuration.
2) Lighter weight if you use an aluminum housing.

Interesting, learn something new every day, thanks.

I'm guessing the E36 doesnt already have the holes for the 4 bolts mounting up so it's a semi-custom job? I cant picture it now.

I'm guessing the E36 doesnt already have the holes for the 4 bolts mounting up so it's a semi-custom job? I cant picture it now.

It's not semi-custom. It's all custom. You've gotta take an E36 subframe, cut it up, add some back, and then create some access holes in the chassis in case you want to drop the diff without dropping the entire subframe.

IDK, was thinking ford 9 inch but not sure of its weight. Or holesaw the casing! Lol, if we holesaw enough, we'll only need briggs and strattons! Those have light diffs!
Gt2, 6 inch height, flat plane wing only. Running this to make my co driver happy.
You ready for Mid O, Mike???
Steve, i goin fast!!!

I hope so! Certainly hoping for better event than VIR for the #03 DM car!
9" quick-change going in my new car. Lighter, stronger, & less expensive (plus multiple ratios is fast & easy swap).

Running e36 diff from DiffsOnline in current car. Very happy with performance now that we've resolved an axle flange issue with some work ACT did.

The e30 case was done in the 95 GTR's that BMW/PTG built...

The e30 case was done in the 95 GTR's that BMW/PTG built...

I think they ran the unobtanium E30 front uprights as well...all of the work they did on the DTM E30's really lasted well into the E36 from a racing standpoint.

I hope so! Certainly hoping for better event than VIR for the #03 DM car!
9" quick-change going in my new car. Lighter, stronger, & less expensive (plus multiple ratios is fast & easy swap).

Running e36 diff from DiffsOnline in current car. Very happy with performance now that we've resolved an axle flange issue with some work ACT did.

Funny as we were trying to figure out how to market a quick change setup last week...

Got some other new stuff in the works, including a lighter carrier for less rotational mass and some other ideas. Going to see what comes to light when it's all done.

You'll need a test car Dan...
I don't know if I could live with ford parts in my car. Kinda gross but eh, what the heck. Ike better hide his car next race we're at together:devillook
The rest of this season is pretty much done for me as far as building goes, I need to race and get some setup done. Changes to the rear will be fabbed up on a roller that I can experiment on. Plus looking to tub/ tube the front so lots of experimenting is safer on a test car.

Ok, Mid O went better this time around. My times were on par with 3rd place, bout 2 seconds off from Battle and Papa Watts. And that was with it plowing, so I'm getting close.
So lets start with Friday. First session, car was set too low to turn without rubbing which was a PITA since I was perfect on corner weighting. Whatever, 5 turns up on every corner. Discovered a big oil leak from the dipstick tube that got messed up during the head work. Sooo, fixed that and got out for next session.
The quick alignment was poor and they gave me positive toe in the rear, guess I wasn't clear when I said 1/8th in...:rolleyes
That was a quick session, came in and set some toe in. Out for the last session, car was still running lean but got some time in.
First session saturday, set the fuel waaaaay up, from 46 psi to 75 psi. Ran crazy rich, obviously but needed to see my part throttle AFR numbers and it was time to get extreme. It was flooding possibly due to not firing and I was seeing numbers all over the place. Unfortunately, Battle got into me a little when the car decided to flood badly before it reignited. Thankfully, no penalties since it was proven mechanical. 3rd was having really bad issues. I'm now figuring the coils or DME ran the car lean at VIR and that is why my valve melted.
So in go the back up DME and coils, fuel pressure to 55 psi. Still on the rich side at WOT but much nicer part throttle numbers than what I was seeing prior.
The rest of the weekend went well. But I have developed a new thing. Ask Randy what happens when my car goes below 5k rpm! It's breaking up pretty bad low rpm, and now below 5k, I feel like i'm getting hit from behind. It's not steady, its a whack.... whack.... whack. I found both cv boots (inner) are spraying their grease, but doesn't seem like a good cause for the feeling. Feels like a sort of backlash.
Next replacement is the fuel pressure regulator and the cv's. The regulator is just cuz that may be contributing to my fluctuating AFR #'s.

Some pics of the Mid O compound, we definitly had every tool covered in our part of the paddock with RRT and our stuff combined.
Also some pics of the new CCW's and the new D-force mesh low offset.

Anymore info on the d-force low offset wheels Phil? width and offset? Thanks

A little heavier (pretty friggin light though) than the LTW's, and a little skinnier. The offset is ET24 (maybe 23, but right there) and they're 9.5 wide. They do measure 10 outside to outside. I've got 280/640/18's on them now. They should be for sale soon, D-force had a few sets air freighted in for some of our cars cuz we've been waiting awhile. They may be in by now though.
Gonna flat black my centers to match the rears.

Phil,
If those are the Dunlops I gave you at Mt Tremblant, don't try any making any set-up adjustments with them. Those are for burn-outs and flogging only. I experienced drastic handling problems when I used those vs. the sticker Yokos I had with me. No doubt, 4+ seconds a lap and an ill handling vehicle were encountered while those puppies were on my car. I had used them for 5 heat cycles at VIR and that's it, but the down time to Tremblant didn't seem to suit them. Mounted the Yoks, no other adjustments, and bingo great feel and better times. You need to save your cougar chasing dollars for good tires...

Nope, these were Watts' scrubs, prob not much better though. Tires are too expensive.:(
Hoping to have a nice fresh set of Yoks for the glen and to polish off the season.
Stop cougar chasing?! Are you out of your mind man!?

p.s- hurry up and get back to racing!!

Phil,
I want to dry hump you new wheels!!!
MMMM! It's about time you got rid of that un-healthy wheel spacer!

Also, the e30 will be done for tremblant if Jeff has not told you already!! Get your flat Black rattle can out we're goin racin'!!

TimtimTIMMMMAAA, i'm always ready. When we getting cracking on the new HMS mobile?? Tremblant is close....

Well...
I'm hoping to get the motor sealed back up in the next week or so. I am stuck dealing with some RMV Bullsh.. this week, so next week we'll be assembling and such. I'm hoping to get a doner car early next week for all the odds and ends needed. We'll see about that.

So...

It's go time!

Well...
I'm hoping to get the motor sealed back up in the next week or so. I am stuck dealing with some RMV Bullsh.. this week, so next week we'll be assembling and such. I'm hoping to get a doner car early next week for all the odds and ends needed. We'll see about that.

So...

It's go time!

RMV? * em

donor for what? We prob have everything, you just need to find out what you need

RMV? * em
You got that right Dan!

Well... Need all the bolts and hardware to install all the parts you gave me. Plus rear axles, diff housing (for Dan to hook me up with a great diff), wiring harness, driveshaft, glass windshield, all the brake components (minus the calipers I got from you), throttle pedal and cables, fuel tank (or I buy a fuel cell and make a cage like the one I made you, because the trunk floor was cut out. The tank and lines in the car look as if something died in there! Not good!), dash, half naked girls... Wait those don't come with the car! My bad!
For a few hundy bucks it might be worht it unless you convince me otherwise Phil!!
Or not... You tell me??

You got that right Dan!

Well... Need all the bolts and hardware to install all the parts you gave me. Plus rear axles, diff housing (for Dan to hook me up with a great diff), wiring harness, driveshaft, glass windshield, all the brake components (minus the calipers I got from you), throttle pedal and cables, fuel tank (or I buy a fuel cell and make a cage like the one I made you, because the trunk floor was cut out. The tank and lines in the car look as if something died in there! Not good!), dash, half naked girls... Wait those don't come with the car! My bad!
For a few hundy bucks it might be worht it unless you convince me otherwise Phil!!
Or not... You tell me??
I have a booster and e28m5 master and shit here. it's the booster that will work the m50 when you get sick of the 4cyl.

I still have a ton of other stuff if you want to come by. Tons of steering wheels, quick disconnect hubs. I forget what else.

The fuel tank in that is brand new...

You got that right Dan!

Well... Need all the bolts and hardware to install all the parts you gave me. Plus rear axles, diff housing (for Dan to hook me up with a great diff), wiring harness, driveshaft, glass windshield, all the brake components (minus the calipers I got from you), throttle pedal and cables, fuel tank (or I buy a fuel cell and make a cage like the one I made you, because the trunk floor was cut out. The tank and lines in the car look as if something died in there! Not good!), dash, half naked girls... Wait those don't come with the car! My bad!
For a few hundy bucks it might be worht it unless you convince me otherwise Phil!!
Or not... You tell me??

Rear axles: cheap to get
Diff housing: I have one for you, 2 actually, we'll let Dan guide us there
Wiring hareness: Should have been on the engine I gave you, if not I have it, we don't need the chassis harness
Driveshaft: I should still have somewhere
Glass windshield: Loser, lexan
Brakes:? I gave you pretty much everything you need, lines are SS, have some spares, rest is new
Throttle cable and pedal: Have to be new, screw used
Fuel tank: I have a few
Dash: We can rip out of my M3
Naked girls: got ya covered there too

The fuel tank in that is brand new...

Yeah and there is so much shit in the lines it would most likely give me more problems than help me out. Plus, it is quite damaged from when the car was trailered over on the dolly.
Dan, you know I am on a budget and your prices aren't in the range of free. If you know what I mean!!
I should probably start a thread of my own... Once I am allowed to do pics.

Naked girls: got ya covered there too
That you do!! You bastard!!

Rear axles: cheap to get
Diff housing: I have one for you, 2 actually, we'll let Dan guide us there
Wiring hareness: Should have been on the engine I gave you, if not I have it, we don't need the chassis harness
Driveshaft: I should still have somewhere
Glass windshield: Loser, lexan
Brakes:? I gave you pretty much everything you need, lines are SS, have some spares, rest is new
Throttle cable and pedal: Have to be new, screw used
Fuel tank: I have a few
Dash: We can rip out of my M3


Ok, then we will play your game.
PHILSANS TO THE RESCUE!!
YOUR MY LITTLE FIREFIGHTER HERO!!

Yeah and there is so much shit in the lines it would most likely give me more problems than help me out. Plus, it is quite damaged from when the car was trailered over on the dolly.
Dan, you know I am on a budget and your prices aren't in the range of free. If you know what I mean!!
I should probably start a thread of my own... Once I am allowed to do pics.

I like pilotis...

$50 for an engine = free!

Ok, then we will play your game.
PHILSANS TO THE RESCUE!!
YOUR MY LITTLE FIREFIGHTER HERO!!

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj169/backlasher7/gay.jpg

Oh dan you know I'm busting you ballz!! I appreciate the call on that engine. I will save my posterior!

Oh dan you know I'm busting you ballz!! I appreciate the call on that engine. I will save my posterior!

https://edgecastcdn.net/800034/www.perpetualkid.com/productimages/lg/GUMC-0905.jpg

I will save my posterior!

"IT" will save my ass.

I take it back! Suck my Balls!

I take it back! Suck my Balls!

http://dead-ringer.com/images/web/fellatio-large-2.jpg

no other words needed

Thanks smart-ass!
You just love posting random shit don't you!
You are without a doubt "THAT GUY"
I'll be in touch about the parts you have, maybe I'll take a ride to your shop next week and see what you have available.
thx

Thanks smart-ass!
You just love posting random shit don't you!
You are without a doubt "THAT GUY"
I'll be in touch about the parts you have, maybe I'll take a ride to your shop next week and see what you have available.
thx

http://www.bobpitch.com/anon/freeradical_volvo1.jpg

ah, we continue to prove that boston is a great place to visit....
you both suck btw. just fyi. I didn't type "each other" in that sentence cuz I don't wanna get banned like you guys.:stickoutt

Hate on...

snuggles??

As the question of fuel cells has popped up, I would like to ask a real question and maybe we can all respond with cute pics and witty retorts as answers? ;)

I keep seeing folks sink their cells in the trunk floor which is nice for lower center of mass and all but its also behind the rear axles. I know that most sanctioning bodies want there to be a bulkhead between the driver and the cell as well which makes the trunk a good place to put it but...

If it were closer to the center of the car would it not make a bigger difference on performance by limiting change of weight distribution from full to nearer empty?

Also, if the cell were not low and behind the rear diff could one not make real downforce by making a diffuser that would need the space occupied by most of these sunken fuel cells?

Thanks in advance.

As the question of fuel cells has popped up, I would like to ask a real question and maybe we can all respond with cute pics and witty retorts as answers? ;)

I keep seeing folks sink their cells in the trunk floor which is nice for lower center of mass and all but its also behind the rear axles. I know that most sanctioning bodies want there to be a bulkhead between the driver and the cell as well which makes the trunk a good place to put it but...

If it were closer to the center of the car would it not make a bigger difference on performance by limiting change of weight distribution from full to nearer empty?

Also, if the cell were not low and behind the rear diff could one not make real downforce by making a diffuser that would need the space occupied by most of these sunken fuel cells?

Thanks in advance.Yes, it is better for the car where the stock tank is. That is one reason we do not change them out to cells.

Thanks
brad

you're not wrong, stock is better. But per SCCA GT rules, I don't get the choice and I can't run a rear diffuser... :devillook unless it gets built into my mounts for the cell somehow...

My SCCA national license is on its way me thinks, almost TV time:evil2

Phil, what glass does your car run in SCCA?

you mean class? GT2

almost TV time:evil2

sick, what episode of jackass are you going to be on

:buttrock :help :lol :alright ;) :D :cool :confused

Phil, you can get fuel cell's for the stock OE tank location.

you mean class? GT2

Yeah, I meant class. Sorry, it was late.

My new car also runs GT2...

Not too late to qualify for the runoffs..... :devillook

sick, what episode of jackass are you going to be on

:buttrock :help :lol :alright ;) :D :cool :confused

shut it or I'll push you off another golfcart...

Phil, you can get fuel cell's for the stock OE tank location.

Really? Nifty. I kinda like the weight back there though, rotates nicely.

Should have plenty of time to qualify for the runoffs, now I only need to find an engine builder to borrow a motor from that wants TV time....






anyone???













Anyone???

I got my national license!!!:redspot:redspot:redspot

Should have plenty of time to qualify for the runoffs, now I only need to find an engine builder to borrow a motor from that wants TV time....

How are you planning to get on TV? Are you planning to podium or crash spectacularly? :stickoutt

I got my national license!!!:redspot:redspot:redspot
In a box of Cracker Jacks? Did it come with a secret decoder ring? :D

shut it or I'll push you off another golfcart...

I fell off on my own...

How are you planning to get on TV? Are you planning to podium or crash spectacularly? :stickoutt

"That's how I roll" -Phil

In a box of Cracker Jacks? Did it come with a secret decoder ring? :D

http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Original_Graphic/2004/03/25/1080229649_1936.jpg

Jebus. You guys are brutal.

Did I wander into the Honda forums on accident?

Jebus. You guys are brutal.

Did I wander into the Honda forums on accident?

:lol No, the difference is that I probably know 50% of the people I interact with here on these boards and if I don't, there's literally one degree of separation to 90% of the rest. In this case, I definitely know the guy I'm giving a hard time and Dan is actually his lover, so no big deal. :D

:lol No, the difference is that I probably know 50% of the people I interact with here on these boards and if I don't, there's literally one degree of separation to 90% of the rest. In this case, I have a huge crush on the guy I'm giving a hard time and Dan is actually his lover, so no big deal. :D

Fixed that for you!

:lol No, the difference is that I probably know 50% of the people I interact with here on these boards and if I don't, there's literally one degree of separation to 90% of the rest. In this case, I definitely know the guy I'm giving a hard time and Dan is actually his lover, so no big deal. :D

Fixed that for you!

interesting that you chose to not "fix" that part...hmmmmm

interesting that you chose to not "fix" that part...hmmmmm

is this you? Dave "Spelunker" White

http://www.desertexposure.com/200510/images/cavingbt.jpg

I can't even type I'm laughing so hard. I love this thread. And Dan:devillook
And Bryan:devillook
And Dave most of all cuz he looks snuggly;)
hit me up baby!

Oh, yeah, I will decimate this car on TV. If i ain't winning, I'm still getting all the attention.

Oh, ok. I guess I get it now. Group photo?

http://bp1.blogger.com/_4M0LiHriaVw/RsNcf8qVEXI/AAAAAAAACZ0/Zs51NV5IgJc/s400/Bear%2520Force%2520One.jpg

:lol
I get to be the guy with hair! on his head... and uh everywhere else...

246415

I remember hearing Bryan and Dave saying "He needs less clothes"...

Dan wasn't saying much, just groaning in pain from me pushing him off the golf cart.

Oh, yeah, I will decimate this car on TV. If i ain't winning, I'm still getting all the attention.
checker or wrecker, right? or whatever it takes to get on tv...
Oh, ok. I guess I get it now. Group photo?
eww...i think that was the last party dan and phil went to up in boston... :D

Do you have a front tow hook location, since it doesn't seem like you have a cut out in your bumper for the stock location.

front tow hook?? Is that a gay joke? you should be ashamed!:stickoutt

It's on the side of the cage, on the b pillar. Dunno if it'll pass SCCA tech...

checker or wrecker, right? or whatever it takes to get on tv...


you know how it is! You going to drive anything at the 12 hour this weekend btw?? I got an opportunity, but idk... lots of work here and I haven't heard about anyone fun going.

Oh, ok. I guess I get it now. Group photo?

Oh look, now the newb has jokes.

You going to drive anything at the 12 hour this weekend btw??
what 12hr? i guess you can figure out my answer from that...

I haven't heard about anyone fun going.
is that some sort of code that you and dan use? nobody to snuggle with in the trailer at night? :confused

Oh, ok. I guess I get it now. Group photo?

http://bp1.blogger.com/_4M0LiHriaVw/RsNcf8qVEXI/AAAAAAAACZ0/Zs51NV5IgJc/s400/Bear%2520Force%2520One.jpg

2nd from the left...READ?

is that some sort of code that you and dan use? nobody to snuggle with in the trailer at night? :confused

The Rev A.T. will keep you safe!

2nd from the left...READ?

I actually thought the same thing. :D

http://www.moviejungle.com/images/feat_interviews/steveaustin2.gif
http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/N/S/austin_s.jpg

I'm not sure he likes it when I call him Stone cold... but he hasn't snapped me in half yet.
The 12 hour at summit is this weekend, guess you're not going! I'm def out, Dodge died again last nite, I gotta figure this thing out. But at least I was close enough to walk home. It was dark and scary and I was alllllll alone, but Dan texted me through it.

Seriously, newb thinks he got game...

FTNG!!!

Great website as well guys...

http://www.bearforce1.nl/

don't be linking off of your favorites!:stickoutt

Are you kidding me!!!!!!????? Who is in for copying the video? BMWCCA Bear Racers....

I can see Dan and Phil rubbing each other with motul......LOL!!!

Lets film it!:lol:lol:lol

Are you kidding me!!!!!!????? Who is in for copying the video? BMWCCA Bear Racers....

I can see Dan and Phil rubbing each other with motul......LOL!!!

Lets film it!:lol:lol:lol

The big question is: Who's game to put the clip on YouTube? :D

oh you guys:rolleyes
lol, here's some pics to prove I'm still working. Painted the wheels and got some aero with the new longacre mirrors.
246894

246895

246896

246897

246898

Nice, I'm diggin the black wheels.

1. You can get more out of that wing if you raise it up, looks like you got another 5-6" to go until roofline.

2. How is the moros switch panel doing? Starter switch and other switches holding up?

I'm trying to find other amp breakers for it, as i can only find 20amp replacements.

6" max height off of the deck in GT for "teh wang"
I've never needed any replacement parts for my switch panel, the one in this car is 8 years old, that's why I don't hesitate to recommend them!

6" max height off of the deck in GT for "teh wang"
I've never needed any replacement parts for my switch panel, the one in this car is 8 years old, that's why I don't hesitate to recommend them!
Hey Phil, I was thumbing through the GCR this weekend at a friend's house (getting prepped for NL24), and I think it said that if you do tow straps in the side window for the front, they need to be at the A-pillar as close as possible to the windshield base, and one on each side. You might want to check that your B-pillar straps would pass before you show up to the races.

Car looks sweet.

-tammer

thanks Tammer, good find! I was looking at possible spots yesterday, won't be too hard. I really want one like a "shark fin" coming out of the roof or hood. I don't know why but that screams "racecar" to me.
Our new ITR car starts getting built for the NL24 event next weekend, I'll see you there!

6" max height off of the deck in GT for "teh wang"
I've never needed any replacement parts for my switch panel, the one in this car is 8 years old, that's why I don't hesitate to recommend them!

Ah right, non bmwcca, sucks.

Good to hear on the switch panel.

Busy friggin weekend but almost all the cars are ready for the NH race. Mines off for alignment this week and I'll spend all next saturday on the dyno. Pics from the weekend!
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248145

248146

248147

248148

248149

248150

248151

248152

Phil,

Is that the final install of the trunk pin retainers? :)

If yes, it's GHETTOFABULOUS!!

:stickoutt
I don't trust the carbon trunk to hold the wing! It has held for years but till I get some questions answered from SCCA its what I'm running... Safety straps. Safety first!!;)

the m-roadster owner speeding again..........i tell you......that kid

:lol



248149

248150

248151

248152

You're all lucky I own that town. I'll tell you about my Natick prison visit after y'all left. Good times:rolleyes

unless you ended up in the "womens prison"....i dont want to hear shower stories...... ;)

checking the M for brakes manana. hopefully nothing big. should we do fire system next weekend!?



You're all lucky I own that town. I'll tell you about my Natick prison visit after y'all left. Good times:rolleyes

were there two Z3 race cars in those pictures?

I'll tell you about my Natick prison visit after y'all left. Good times:rolleyes

were there two Z3 race cars in those pictures?

You know how they do it in Boston. :crackbutt:cuddle:llkiss

Yeah, we have 2 zesty3's on the team, an IP and a DM.

Come to Boston Jesse, we'll show you a good time:naughty

I'll be there July 4th weekend, will there be fireworks? :naughty :rofl

There'll be 2 Z3's... they'll prob catch on fire. Does that count?:devillook

darn it.....

a trail of fire...Back to the Future style baby!

now you see me.....pstpstpstpsptsptsptthhhhhh......NOW YOU DONT

:lol:lol:lol:lol

There better be fireworks at the local strip club. Its my bday!!!






There'll be 2 Z3's... they'll prob catch on fire. Does that count?:devillook

LOL I hope they catch fire!

I always said mine was flaming

:lol
Ahhh, we funny. I love it. All right, can't dyno this saturday but I can the day before NH... Gonna see if Nick P will join me. Gotta tune this thing a bit. Dan, same day comparison? Mig's already had same dyno pulls done. He's got me dead on...:help

:lol
Ahhh, we funny. I love it. All right, can't dyno this saturday but I can the day before NH... Gonna see if Nick P will join me. Gotta tune this thing a bit. Dan, same day comparison? Mig's already had same dyno pulls done. He's got me dead on...:help

I have my SMT5 box if you want pavlo to make u some POWAH.

Is this a bet? You wanna lose on the track and on the dyno? IDK man. Watch your manhood around the z3, it will take it. Took mine...

OOOO POWAH??? I like POWAH! I've got my piggyback too, we can ask Nick his preference I guess...
Beat me? You should aim to finish. Just once. Finish... Will it to happen man... Shake and bake...

I finally got my car done, so it is nice to go through this entire thread again, to see all of the progress and things that you have done.

What is your current stance/ride height set at?

Nice Don, must feel good! Ride height varies, NH is next so I'm at truck height. IIRC, 4.5" front, 5 1/4". Don't quote me on that.

Are you measuring it from the jack up points on the car? I know the fender fitment might be a little different between cars, so that might not work.

It does feel good to have it done. Not 12 hours after I got the car down, with wheel/tires and suspension installed, I took it out to a autox event that BMW CCA was running. The cones and large fender flares didn't exactly get along together all so well, but it was