I'm long overdue getting this thread up, but it's been a crazy couple of months with house remodeling, new house purchase and listing of our current place, not to mention two young kids, so time spent on the car has been scarce. In the next couple of weeks, I should be able dial up the effort--I'm going to have to if it will be ready for this season.:eek:

This will be a ground up build of an E30 M3 primarily targeted at GTS and will fit into either DM or SM depending on how crazy I get with underbody aero and if I go with cockpit adjustable sways or not. I plan to focus on keeping the chassis light, without going crazy with the hole saw. Due to budget constraints and cost/benefit, I'm not going with the absolute lightest components off the bat--they can always be added later.

Here's an overview of the car:

Chassis: 89 M3 with McMahan cage, FG/CF hood, fenders, bumper covers, deck lid, side skirts. Doors are TBD, but probably FG/CF. Lexan all around. Wing TBD.
Engine: M20 <gasp!> stroker with S50 US crank/rods, custom JE pistons, KK exhaust. Intake will be an stock Extrude honed manifold, BBTB to start and may go to ITB in phase 2.
Steering: 95 M3 Rack, custom tie rods, Woodward column, Power Steering TBD (my KP car was manual)
Suspension: AST 4300 triple adjustables, Vorshlag plates and bits, custom sways, 15" wheels with Hoosier bias slicks
Brakes: Aftermarket BBK TBD, Tilton 3 pedal floor mount, stock ABS to start, maybe something special later--no, not Bosch M4 Steve ;)
Drivetrain: Getrag 260 trans, Koala Motorsport diffs of various ratios, AKG shifter
Interior: Recaro Pro Racer HANS, Schroth Hybrid-2 with double shoulder belts, IQ3 dash

I'm sure people are going to ask--Why M20? Well, I wanted to stay with an E30 and since this is focused on GTS where classing is done RWHP to weight, I wanted an engine that would have good torque with the goal of getting TQ an HP approx equal. S14 and torque shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, not to mention rebuild costs of an S14. Weight was also a consideration--unless you go with a Al block M50, the M50/S50 engines are 40-80lbs heavier. Lastly, and more importantly, I had most of parts sitting on the shelf already. The only parts I had to buy other than bearings and gaskets, were the pistons, all of which I would likely buy with an M50/S50 anyway. Plus I have several spare blocks, heads, as well as Getrag 260 transmissions to bolt up to the M20 for when the inevitable failures happen.

I'll post pics by date of progress to get caught up below and will update as warranted going forward.

Once I decided to build an E30 based car focused on GTS, I had to decide whether or not to modify/build off my existing KP 325 chassis or start fresh. In the end, I decided to start fresh so that everything could be done right from the beginning. The KP car will be converted into the EMS Spec E30 rental.

I spent about 6 weeks searching for an E30 M3 chassis to build this car up from. There were a few good chassis out there, but most were at least a day's drive away and cost $3000+ for a decent one. The other option I considered was finding a cheap complete car and selling of the parts, but that involved a lot of time and effort.

As I was mulling the options, we found a car that a local guy was parting out. He had already sold the engine/drivetrain and was in the process of selling the suspension as well as other misc bits. Since all I really wanted was the shell itself, it was a perfect fit-the only question was one of condition.

I went out to Barrington (far western suburb) to check the car out, and while it some cancer, it wasn't too bad. The front right corner had a light hit, so the fender was missing and the core support needed to be replaced. The right rear qtr also was rusted away in the wheel well area as well as misc surface rust throughout the car. I did a simple tape measure and plumb bob check of the suspension points and the chassis still appeared to be square.

The owner and I made a deal--Mike A. can no longer claim to have the cheapest E30 chassis--I paid exactly $0 for it ;) We went the old fashioned way--barter system. I took him and three of his buddies to Autobahn CC for a day using some of the guest passes that were due to expire at the end of the season in exchange. He and his buddies got one last track day in and I got a car for free--great for him, great for me. :buttrock

Some example pics from the inspection:

October was a pretty dead month for car stuff. The remodeling on the condo was finally done enough by mid-October so we could move back in. Spending a couple of months in a 1000 sqft 2br/1ba temporary apt with an infant and a 3yr old was cozy. Keeping on top of the construction and getting moved back in consumed most of my free time. Man, I wish the guys upstairs had paid attention to the warning signs and replaced their water heater before it puked all over our place. Oh, well, what's done is done--now back to car stuff.

In any case, The previous owner had to take the drivetrain/suspension out of the car so he needed time anyway. I took him a stock 325 suspension to bolt up so we could move it when he was done getting all his bits off of it. All I got completed in October was to get the chassis to the shop, get it on the lift and take a baseline weight of 1638lbs.

The goal for this month was to get the car completely stripped down to the shell. Everything bolted to the car was removed with the exception of the doors. Everything was removed from the doors themselves, but they were left attached to the chassis.

Given the rust on the chassis, I decided to have the car dipped to rid of all the cancer as well as reveal and surprises their might be lurking under the paint. At this point, I didn't remove any brackets, leaving that for when it came back from being dipped. In the end, the chassis weighed 656lbs before heading to the dipper.

More...

Cool!! Subscribed.

Subscribed!

Big project, whens the estimated completion date?

And please post more pictures of the orange toy in your shop.

By the last week of November, the car was ready to go to the dipper. In Chicago, there is an caustic based company, Redi-Strip, but they were expensive ($2400+ phone estimate) and had a 6-8+ week lead time. I found another place just across the border in Wisconsin near Great Lakes Dragaway, Strip-Rite. They were acid based but $1000 cheaper and an expected 2-3 week lead time.

Before I could get the chassis up to Wisconsin, I needed to fab a car dolly so I could transport the car there. Using some 1.25" sq tube and some casters we had around the shop, I put this together.

hopefully the surprises after the dip are not to big. Very cool for the fact that it was free.

I hope to have an E30 that I am able to setup, but first off is to get other things in order

While I was desperately waiting for the dipper to be done, some eye candy arrived from the FedEx man--the JE pistons. They weigh 320g and the engine will have ~12:1 compression. Warmed me up during the brutal winter we're having here in Chicago.

Much of January was spent cleaning up and organizing the shop and tearing motors down to get ready to go to the machine shop. I have two that I'm building--the stroker for this car and a stock rebuild for the Spec E30 car.

Also in Jan, I started putting together a rotisserie to make seam/stitch welding of the chassis much easier--welding overhead sucks. Pics of that to follow later...

As it turns out, it took over 8 weeks for me to finally get the car back from the dipper. It's a one man show and he was having a lot of trouble getting anything to come off this "modern" car--most of the stuff he does is 50 years older. He had someone come in an measure his tank and the acid was basically dead. So, he had to drain and clean his tanks which took several weeks, then refill with new chemicals. The upside is he moved to a caustic solution, so in the end, I lost time but got a caustic dip for just over half the $ as taking it locally in about the same time.

Part of the delay was not his fault as the weather play havoc with schedules. First a big winter storm delayed the chemical pumper truck a week, then another delayed the delivery of the new chemicals for a week. Finally, when the car was done, more storms/forecast storms kept coinciding with the days I could take off early from work to go pick it up, delaying another ~10 days. Damn you mother nature :mad

The good news is, the chassis looked better than I expected. The rear qtr that was rusted out was clearly banged up and beaten out/bondo'd in the past, so that will be replaced rather than patched, but other than that, it was pretty good. A lot of the surface rust cleaned right up.

I took the car basically straight from the dipper to Patrick Collision in Schaumburg. The put it on the table and all the suspension points were dead on :buttrock They're going to fix the core support and replace the rear qtr (17 hrs, ouch!) including sealing up the fuel filler, and fix a couple of other little spots before shooting it with with weld through primer. Hopefully, it will be ready on Thursday this week.

After I get it back to the shop, I need to get it prepped to go to McMahan as quickly as possible. Since the rotisserie is basically custom (modified design off of autobody101.com), I need to finish that up, then stitch weld and remove excess brackets.

A few more shots:

Big project, whens the estimated completion date?

Well, that's a good question. I was hoping for May, but that will take a miracle. More likely it will be July. Now that our place is sold and we'll be moving next month, I'll be able to focus more time/$ on the car.

And please post more pictures of the orange toy in your shop.

Well, I wish it was my toy--belongs to my friend/garage-mate. A bunch of us that live in the city share a former factory building to house the toys/support the crack habit. Two friends that are into rock crawling/desert racing own the building and Mr. Exige and I rent space from them.

When we move to a single family, I'll finally have my own garage, but given the std Chicago lot is 25' wide, the garage is tiny and not conducive to working cars to the level we do. Having all the space is certainly very nice for getting work done, having a lift, etc. but has the downside of not being behind the house.

As far as the car, it's a previous generation Exige that's getting a Judd engine this spring. It's going to be wicked when done.

Awesome John, keep us updated. Hopefully I'll see the finished product this year :)

cool project. coming along nicely

The owner and I made a deal--Mike A. can no longer claim to have the cheapest E30 chassis--I paid exactly $0 for it ;) We went the old fashioned way--barter system. I took him and three of his buddies to Autobahn CC for a day using some of the guest passes that were due to expire at the end of the season in exchange. He and his buddies got one last track day in and I got a car for free--great for him, great for me. :buttrock


LOL! I never laid claims on the cheapest e30 chassis, just that e30s are a great inexpensive platform for an awesome race car! Of course, loads of folks have told me how terrible an e30 is compared to the newer stuff, so I started calling them Disadvantaged Models as a joke. I love them! ;)

Disadvantaged Models


:lol:lol:lol

LOL! I never laid claims on the cheapest e30 chassis, just that e30s are a great inexpensive platform for an awesome race car! Of course, loads of folks have told me how terrible an e30 is compared to the newer stuff, so I started calling them Disadvantaged Models as a joke. I love them!

I love the e30 M3, but I decided to move with the newer stuff just because it's cheaper to fix when you hit the something and there is a lot of used parts for these since they are racing in a lot of categories and lot of guys mod them.

Sorry it's been so long since I've posted an update. It's been a crazy couple of weeks between closing on a new house, moving, selling our old place, etc. so it hasn't left much time to work on the car. Since its been sitting out at Patrick Collision for what seems like forever, there hasn't been as much (but plenty) to do.

In the mean time, I tore down two spare engines to get them ready for a rebuilt. One will be a stock rebuilt for a Spec E30 car, the other will be the race motor for this car. One spare engine was out of a street 325i with ~260k miles, the other was the engine in the former KP car when I bought it. I raced it the first year I owned it, but then started to feel pretty tired after 170k miles, probably 35k of which were track miles put on by the prior owner and myself.

The former race motor was pretty nasty on the inside with a good bit of black sludge throughout and especially in the oil pan. I'm not sure if that is because it has been sitting for several years or because of it's hard life, but was certainly interesting. The second pic shows the bottom end and the third shows a comparison of the 260k mile oil pan on the bottom and the race pan on the top.

In the mean time, I tore down two spare engines to get them ready for a rebuilt. One will be a stock rebuilt for a Spec E30 car, the other will be the race motor for this car. One spare engine was out of a street 325i with ~260k miles, the other was the engine in the former KP car when I bought it. I raced it the first year I owned it, but then started to feel pretty tired after 170k miles, probably 35k of which were track miles put on by the prior owner and myself.


Woo hoo Bronzesh!t's motor FTW! :D

Which one is going into the Spec E30? If it's the 260K mile one then that car will live on in Spec E30 land. A bunch of that car is already part of Simon's car. Good karma. :)

Carlos.

Also while the car was away, I spent time working on the rotisserie and other small things around the shop.

I based my design on plans from autobody101.com with some modifications based desired design changes as well as due to steel we had around the shop. It's a basic T design with two support legs for the vertical post. Each end of the rotisserie will be connected via two cross bars to keep each side aligned. Each side has two locking swivel casters for mobility.

The rotating portion is a 3" 0.25" wall DOM tube welded to the vertical leg with a 2.5" 0.25"wall DOM tube rotating inside. There are collars on each side to keep the rotating tube in place, the inside one welded, the outside one held by a set screw. The rotating tube was turned down and the inside of the fixed tube "polished" for smooth operation with a thin layer of grease. A spring pin locks rotation in place every 45 degrees.

I have the bumper brackets and horizontal tube all cut and ready to weld together, I'm just waiting for the chassis so I can be sure it all lines up since I'm not going to make it adjustable.

The thing is way overbuilt, but it will work just fine and gave me a chance to practice my MIG welding. ;-)

I also made some hockey puck pads for the lift arms so the newly painted body wont get scratched on the lift.

Note in some of the pics, I cheated on the pics as they are from last night when I finally got the chassis. I have to head out, more to follow later tonight...

After several months (ugh) away, the chassis finally made it back home. The guys at Patrick did really nice work and ended up replacing the core support, right rear qtr panel and wheel house as well as the back panel. The back panel wasn't bad, but it is just easier to replace it. The whole car was cleaned of the rust-inhibitor put on by the dipper and sprayed with a weld-through primer. Unfortunately, when they replaced the panels, the did put some seam sealer/caulk back on, so I will have to break out the crud-thug to take it off.

What I was really anticipating was the weigh-in post dip and I must say I was stunned. When it left the shop to the dipper, it weighed in at 656. When I put it on the scales the other night, minus doors (31lbs each) and the sunroof (11lbs), the chassis weighed 451 lbs. The car lost an astonishing 132lbs! Either the seal sealer/glued on sound deadening was extremely heavy or there was a crapload of bondo on the right qtr. There is still another 20lbs at least to come off as the sunroof tray is still there as well as many unneeded brackets, etc.

In any case, time to get to work this weekend getting it on the rotisserie, bracket removal and starting the stitch welding. I also have to replace both sides of the rear passenger footwells as they are in bad shape. I'll probably patch the subwoofer holes in the rear bulkhead and a lot of the pass throughs in firewall as it will be much easier before the cage goes in.

Lots to do, but its good to be getting back at it!

JVH,

Wow that's a pretty big weight loss. Are you sure that you didn't use steel jack stands for the initial weigh in?;)

Jack may have to get back on the "dipping" bandwagon.

Woo hoo Bronzesh!t's motor FTW! :D

Which one is going into the Spec E30? If it's the 260K mile one then that car will live on in Spec E30 land. A bunch of that car is already part of Simon's car. Good karma. :)

Carlos.

Not sure which block is going where. Hopefully, I won't be able to tell when they come back from the machine shop.

Unfortunately, I didn't make it to the shop until Sunday (too much wine at a fabulous dinner Friday and sick kid on Saturday), but did get a good bit done.

First task was to remove the sunroof frame and then then skin the panel and mount it back in the chassis. For those of you not familiar with the E30, the sunroof frame/carrier is a major PITA to remove as it is bonded to the roof as well as welded with two tabs on each side to the top of the door frame and center roof bow. Also, there are also a few spot welds between the opening flange and the carrier. It took a good bit longer than I expected, but it finally came out.

Next up was skinning the sunroof and getting it installed. I followed the basic procedure here (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10957491&postcount=11) modified slightly. Since I didn't have to worry about bubbling paint, I was able to gut away the lining pretty quickly with a cut off wheel. Post skinning, the panel weighed ~6 lbs (chassis scale accuracy) so within 2lbs of the advertised weight of the $250 carbon sunroof. Grinding the aluminum posts down to the right height took some time, but in all, pretty straightforward. I still have to trim the mounting tabs once the epoxy sets and add the windshield adhesive (post paint), but it's basically done.

I also got the homebrew rotisserie complete and mounted to the chassis. I must say I was very happy with how it turned out. The chassis spins very easily and smoothly with no binding. It feels very stable and rolls on the four casters easily. The rotisserie is definitely overbuilt--I think the rotisserie weighs more than the chassis!

Lastly, I spent quite a bit of time looking at seat mounting options. I'm going to spend the time getting the seat just how I want it before the cage goes in. With adjustable pedals (Tilton 3 pedal) and steering column (Woodward), I can adjust those to the seat. Most importantly, I want to make sure the crossbar/harness bar goes exactly where I want it. As I mentioned before, the rear passenger footwells are a little dicey, so I'll patch the sheet metal and will weld in a new frame for the seat. I think I'm going to butcher some old Sparco mounts that I have and weld them to the base to secure the seat. We'll see.

The wife is out of town until Wednesday night on business, so I have a couple of days to think about it before I get back to the shop.

The year-round Santa Claus, AKA the UPS guy, delivered some goodies to the office today. Tilton _finally_ sent the pedal kit, bias adjuster and clutch. The AKG shifter came in as well as the Bosch race alternator. Whoo hoo!

How much did the alternator set you back and what are the specs?

Thanks,
Mike

Very, very nice build... Good stuff!
I am in the process of something similar... D-Mod level e30 M3 recently back from the dipper and in the middle of fabrication right now. All suspension members out for powder coat, returning tomorrow.
Anyway, that alternator looks very cool.... as the post above asks... What's the story with that?
Thanks for any information and keep up the excellent work!

The alternator is this one:

Bosch race alternator (http://elephantmotorsports.com/bosch-race-alternator-p-566.html)

We're going to be fabricating some custom bracketry for it of course. Once we get the final design it will be offered with the alternator. Of course E30's will come first then likely followed by E36/E46.

Cheers.

Of course E30's will come first then likely followed by E36


Quit typing and get to work. I want.

The alternator is this one:

Bosch race alternator (http://elephantmotorsports.com/bosch-race-alternator-p-566.html)

We're going to be fabricating some custom bracketry for it of course. Once we get the final design it will be offered with the alternator. Of course E30's will come first then likely followed by E36/E46.

Cheers.
Jack,
Do you already have the bracketry and adjuster designed? You know where I'm going with this, right?....:)
I'd like to run your Bosch race alternator, if you know what I mean...
Got any ready to ship?
Looks like some more cool e30 M3's are gonna be around soon, eh?

Jack,
Do you already have the bracketry and adjuster designed? You know where I'm going with this, right?....:)
I'd like to run your Bosch race alternator, if you know what I mean...
Got any ready to ship?
Looks like some more cool e30 M3's are gonna be around soon, eh?

Geez guys--that pic was the first one we've had in our possession for now about 6 hours ;) Unfortunately, all my M20s are in pieces ready to go to the machine shop, but I will check it against the stock alternator and brackets and see if I can come up with something. Jack will be working on S14 fitment.

As far as specs, it is 14V/55A and weighs 7lbs, about half the stock one.

The real question I have is can we finally ditch the blue wire with this alternator?

Did I get that right mtrspt?

Mike

Jack,
Do you already have the bracketry and adjuster designed? You know where I'm going with this, right?....:)
I'd like to run your Bosch race alternator, if you know what I mean...
Got any ready to ship?
Looks like some more cool e30 M3's are gonna be around soon, eh?

Hey Geoff,

Well, as John eluded to, we haven't had this one for very long. There are a few available now though. But, no work on brackets yet. As also stated, John will be focusing on the M20 fitment first and I'll be working on S14. I've heard of many problems with some existing custome alternator brackets so I'm very concerned about proper design. Mock up, drawings, FEA, testing...all part of the engineering development plan so it will not be super quick.

For those who might want to do it themselves the alternator is currently available though. Given some interest already I think we will work on E36 applications pretty quickly, probably in parallel with the others.

Cheers.

The real question I have is can we finally ditch the blue wire with this alternator?

Did I get that right mtrspt?

Mike

The blue wire is the key to the universe, didn't you know that? ; )

The real question I have is can we finally ditch the blue wire with this alternator?

Did I get that right mtrspt?

Mike

Yeah... Hate it.

Hey Geoff,

Well, as John eluded to, we haven't had this one for very long. There are a few available now though. But, no work on brackets yet. As also stated, John will be focusing on the M20 fitment first and I'll be working on S14. I've heard of many problems with some existing custome alternator brackets so I'm very concerned about proper design. Mock up, drawings, FEA, testing...all part of the engineering development plan so it will not be super quick.

For those who might want to do it themselves the alternator is currently available though. Given some interest already I think we will work on E36 applications pretty quickly, probably in parallel with the others.

Cheers.
Jack, rather than highjack John's very nice build thread, I'll send you an e-mail about this...and other things.

Keep up the great work, John...

I spent a few hours in the shop last night doing some cleanup and thinking though a plan of attack for the rest of the chassis work. I started last night with welding in some chassis reinforcements that come of the E30 convertible. The main one joins the rocker, front frame rail, floor pan and front wheel house--basically it helps secure the bottom of the "front clip". The second joins the wheel house to the wheel housing strut near the top of the wheel well. It actually goes between the two, so it is hard to put in place and weld up. I highlighted the location in the second pic.

It was good practice/prep for doing the stitch welding that will begin on Saturday and these pieces are welded to several different thickness of sheetmetal on the chassis. Pics are of the pieces tacked in as the welds are a little ugly as I sorted out the best settings for the various thicknesses :)

Not making it any easier was there are still spots that are a little "thin" for some of the rust that was present when I got the chassis. That and my skill level ;)

Plan for tonight is bracket removal and patching of the rear passenger footwells--that might take some time...

Yeah... Hate it.
Jack, rather than highjack John's very nice build thread, I'll send you an e-mail about this...and other things.
Keep up the great work, John...

Jack & Geoff,
Email sent so as not to OT John's thread.

Sorry for the lack of updates--work/home life has been hectic this week. I did however get some time to work on the car and took some pics for you image junkies ;-)

First off is repair of the rear passenger footwells. The "circles" were both missing and the rest of metal had fought a losing battle with car cancer. I cut out sections of both floor pans, fabricated replacements and welded them in. It took a lot longer than I thought, but I took my time making the panels. I still had some issues with getting good welds due to some residual cancer spots (very small) making running a consistent bead difficult--a heat spoon probably would have helped. I ended up going with the "pulse" technique that worked pretty well.

I'm going to try linking images to an external site rather than as attachments--we'll see how it goes...

Passenger site cut out
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/floorpan1.jpg

Unfortunately, we don't have a box bending brake (yet) in the shop, so I had to fab this up to use in the press as well as the good old vise and hammer.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/bender1.jpg

Passenger replacement piece. Due to how it fit and the metal I would be welding to, this was place "over" the existing metal.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/floorpan2.jpg

Driver replacement piece. The box on the right fits over existing "good" metal--I wanted this strong since it is where my seat will mount. The rest of the panel will fit "under" the existing metal. Unfortunately, I forgot to roll the beads before I bent it up so I wasn't able to run the right side as long as I wanted. It'll be under the seat, so hopefully I'll forget about it
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/floorpan3.jpg

Here's the passenger side welded in place with a quick shot of primer. Sorry for the quality--the crappy "shop camera" was having issues with focus given the lack of contrast.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/floorpan4.jpg

A couple people have PM's about the chassis reinforcements from the convertible. The part numbers are:

41 12 1 943 117 CONNECTION PIECE LEFT
41 12 1 943 118 CONNECTION PIECE RIGHT
41 14 1 943 223 SUPPORT LEFT
41 14 1 943 224 SUPPORT RIGHT
41 11 8 103 003 REINFORCEMENT LEFT
41 11 8 103 004 REINFORCEMENT RIGHT

You can get them from us or any dealer. Note that we ordered two sets and some pieces were back ordered. It also took a while as the parts had to come from Germany.

I spent some time on Tuesday night working on the seat mount. In concept, I want the seat as far back and low as possible, obviously. The base of the mount is 2"x2"x0.125" right angle steel trimmed to fit the floor. The seat connection piece is cut from some old Sparco mounts that I had.

The mount is just tacked in place for now. Once I get the car on the ground and level, I will finalize the position as it was tough to do in the air on the rotisserie especially since the car does not fit level. I do want to tweak the mounts some so the seat can lower so the bottom of the seat can sit below the base if I can still see out the windshield with it that low. With the bottom mount pedals, I definitely liked the seat more upright than I had it previously.

One tip--use a cheap shower curtain rod to determine the harness bar position when placing the seat. I plan to leave in shower curtain rod and mark the location so McMahan knows exactly where I want the harness bar.

The mount tacked in. To move the seat lower, I'll have to trim the inboard base so the Sparco piece lines up with the outside edge.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/seatmount1.jpg

Seat in place:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/seatmount2.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/seatmount3.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/seatmount4.jpg

Close up of the seat in the mount:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/seatmount5.jpg

On Wednesday, I was able to get started on the stitch welding of the chassis. I had started on some of the bracket removal randomly but decided to take a different approach and go through the car a section at a time--remove brackets, weld, remove brackets, weld, yada^3.

I started with the underside of the passenger compartment. You can also see the underside of the floor pans that were replaced:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/stitch1.jpg

View through the sunroof
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/stitch2.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/stitch3.jpg

The pile of removed brackets so far:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/brackets1.jpg

For removing the spot welds, I picked up this awesome tool--a spot mill from HTP. Instead of "hole saw" like cut around a spot weld, it cuts out the weld itself with a flat tipped bit much like you would find in a milling machine. It has an adjustable collar so you can set the depth to prevent drilling though both panels. Works like a champ and a real time saver.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/spotmill.jpg

what was the cost on that baby? and where did you get it. couldn't seem to find it with a quick search?

The shop press brake looks very familiar :) It works so well, and costs like $10 in steel to make.

Will the alternator be powerful enough to run some high draw accessories (electric steering, abs, etc)?

I've looked into some of the Bosch MS Alternators, but for they cost $1-5k!!!! The cheapest one is 90A and is close to $1k, the 130-140A versions are several thousand $.

Do you have a part number for your race alternator?

Here are the current Bosch MOtorsport Alt's http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/language2/html/2615.htm

What are the cage plans?

what was the cost on that baby? and where did you get it. couldn't seem to find it with a quick search?

I got it from HTP America locally here in Chicago. It's not cheap--I paid around $150 for mine prolly 2 years ago, so with the exchange rate these days, who knows now. Given that it has saved me a couple of hours, it's worth it. Their website is:

http://www.htpweld.com/

The shop press brake looks very familiar :) It works so well, and costs like $10 in steel to make.

It's a pretty common design--nothing earth shattering. The rock-crawling garagemates have one of similar design, but much stronger for 1/4 steel.

Will the alternator be powerful enough to run some high draw accessories (electric steering, abs, etc)?


I certainly hope so, I haven't done the math yet. I don't currently run power steering or ABS on the current car, so I'm still deciding. I'm likely going to run ABS (maybe out of an E36 M3), still unknown on the power steering.

I've looked into some of the Bosch MS Alternators, but for they cost $1-5k!!!! The cheapest one is 90A and is close to $1k, the 130-140A versions are several thousand $.

Do you have a part number for your race alternator?


Seems a bit excessive--I can think of a lot of other things I'd rather spend that kind of $ on. The part number I have is a "generic" one from the distributor. You can always order on from Elephant ;-)

What are the cage plans?

Funny you should ask--worked on this a little last week. See following post.

I certainly hope so, I haven't done the math yet. I don't currently run power steering or ABS on the current car, so I'm still deciding. I'm likely going to run ABS (maybe out of an E36 M3), still unknown on the power steering.


I wonder what the ABS pulls current wise? Is it 'on' for short enough periods that you could just run from the battery when the pump is activated? I have noticed that the ABS will kick off if the system voltage drops too much, so maybe pulling from the battery isn't a great idea since it might draw enough to turn itself off as soon as it turns on the pump.

Ok, so we've been talking/mulling over the cage design for what seems like months and since the car is going to McMahan on Thursday, time to put the plan to paper.

Key details:

International style door bars with gusset
Full X in main hoop
Top of a-pillar to front hoop base plate
Harness bar to front hoop bar
Rear Subframe pickup
Rear shock tower for rear pickup (rear coilovers)
Rear subframe/diff pickup
Roof diamond
Windshield "diamond"
Trans tunnel support
Jackpoint


I'm still deciding on the tubing specs--1.5x0.095 vs 1.75 x 0.095 for the required tubes. The supplemental tubes will be of 0.063 thickness. Given that my expected weight will be under 2200lbs dry I can run 1.5 x 0.095" and be legal in CCA, but it might be close. The limit for that spec tubing is 2500lb and 2699lb in NASA (recently changed) and SCCA respectively, so I'm fine there. I'm going to submit a rule change to match NASA since CCA cage rules are lifted straight from NASA. I just don't want to build the cage with the 1.5 and either come in overweight or be limited in putting in a heavier engine later--the S30B32 is 83lbs heavier and the S54B32 is 44lbs heavier...

Pics are below, but it's sometimes hard to make out the lines when you have a 3D model in a 2D picture. The model was done quickly in SketchUp! and are not to scale, perfectly aligned, etc. I wanted to get the basic layout done so I could better visualize it and communicate that to the cage builder. In the Pics, required tubes are red, "lwt" tubes are black. Let the discussion commence, contructive comments welcome ;-)

Side
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage-v1.6-side1.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage-v1.6-side2.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage-v1.6-side3.jpg

Front
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage-v1.6-front.jpg

Front Quarter
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage-v1.6-frontqtr.jpg

Rear Quarter
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage-v1.6-rearqtr.jpg

Top
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage-v1.6-top.jpg

I had a very long, but productive session at the shop Tuesday night. All the brackets were removed and the stitch welding was completed, finally.

Removing all the brackets was _extremely_ tedious and I am happy to not have to do it again for some time. The worst were the the steering column supports--23 spot welds each. Ugh. In the end, it was worth it--see below for the nice surprise!

Tonight, I need to bolt up the roller suspension and load it on the trailer. Sunday it's off to McMahan.

Underside stitch welding complete
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/stitch4.jpg

Perches, we don't need no stinking perches!
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/noperches.jpg

Engine bay stitch welding complete
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/stitch7.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/stitch8.jpg

Interior shots

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/stitch9.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/stitch10.jpg

Pile O' brackets
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/brackets2.jpg

Survey says:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/surveysays1.jpg


The nice surprise--net weight loss of 10lbs (-brackets, -sunroof tray, +weldwire, +seat mount)

Busy night... nice work... Why no perches?

Why no perches?

Rear coilovers?

Rear coilovers?

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

Just curious... it may have been mentioned in a previous post. Before you did all the labor intensive stuff did you put it on the alignment rack to make sure it was fairly straight? Or, is that something you can compensate for with adjustable suspension?

Jay

Just curious... it may have been mentioned in a previous post. Before you did all the labor intensive stuff did you put it on the alignment rack to make sure it was fairly straight? Or, is that something you can compensate for with adjustable suspension?


Funny you should ask. Yes, I had "a dealer" (don't want to diss them yet until I get in contact with them) put in the rack to be sure it was straight, all the suspension points were in the right place, etc. before they did any body work etc. I did the simple tape and plumb bob measure when I got the car and before I took it to the dipper.

Now, late last night when I was bolting up the suspension, I found that the front subframe did not bolt up--its off by 5-7mm. Needless to say I was PISSED. The subframe measured good, at least to the level I can do wth a tape, and it was removed from this car, so something changed between the dipper, the body work, and the work I did since then. I'm guess when they put the core support on, it got tweaked/moved as I can't image it moved on the rotisserie--it was locked in place.

Hopefully I'll get it out there today/Monday and have them fix it while I wait. It's not hugely off, but it need to be right before the cage goes in.

Beautiful build.

I've had some problems with "55" amp alternators on my car. The Mini Denso is a popular mod for race cars, weighs very little, and is often rebadged by other companies and sold as a race alternator.

Near to where I live there is a great old fashioned starter/alternator rebuild shop that I use on occasion. The told me some interesting things to keep in mind with these alternators and their specifications.

The specs are often based on optimal situations. This could mean cool temperatures, and optimal rpm. In the real world, the alternator will be possibly HOT, and running at variable speeds. They suggested this could result in 10 to 20% decrease in output routinely, especially depending on pulley arrangements.

In my car, using electric water pump, Electric power steering, and factory dme and abs, I could not keep battery charged. Very frustrating. It only made sense when I considered that I may be getting considerably less than "55".

On the flip side, if someone were ONLY running the stock ABS and engine management, I'm quite sure this would be a great choice....

I think I "Rube-Goldberg"ed myself into trouble. Not the first time, and surely it won't be the last time either!

(great price for the alternator! I would have bought that instead of the Denso)

Alex.

Well, some very good news Monday morning. It took the car back out to Patrick and they were able to get on it right away. The guy that "trammed" it out worked with me for a couple of hours checking the car checking it all out. We checked the entire front of the and all the key points where parallel and square, which was a huge relief.

So, that meant that the subframe must have been bent, which was strange in that there appeared to be no damage to it. When you held it up to the frame rails, something was clearly off and with the chassis tramming out straight, it had to be the subframe. It was just odd in that the subframe came off the car in the first place.

Anyway, after the checking was done, I loaded it back on the trailer and headed to McMahan's to have the cage built. Hopefully, he'll be done in a couple of weeks!

did you use another front subframe to put in to verify the one was bent?

and was the 5-7mm short or long? We had two e30 m3s that we swapped the engines and front suspension moving the front ends on the subframes with pallets and a forklift and the one was narrow and the other was long... I don't understand how that could be that much difference. Neither car history showed front end damage- one was hit in the rear though... just my $.02 on the front subframe issue... GL on the project.

did you use another front subframe to put in to verify the one was bent?

Unfortunately, I didn't have another one with me to compare.

and was the 5-7mm short or long? We had two e30 m3s that we swapped the engines and front suspension moving the front ends on the subframes with pallets and a forklift and the one was narrow and the other was long... I don't understand how that could be that much difference. Neither car history showed front end damage- one was hit in the rear though... just my $.02 on the front subframe issue... GL on the project.

The subframe was short and actually a little off square as well. It was very perplexing to both myself and the body guy that they would be off by that much with neither showing much/anything in the way of visible damage. Given that the chassis measured out square and parallel, I took that as good enough--I had to get on the road to Ohio to get the car to McMahans.

I didn't want to spend time/effort and potentially tweaking the car to fit a subframe that I likely won't use anyway. I have another spare on the way and/or may purchase a new one--they aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of things. If both of those don't fit, then we'll have to look at other options; the important thing was the chassis wasn't tweaked. In "phase II" we were planning on moving the inner ball joint anyway, so we may just have to go to a modified/custom front subframe sooner...

With the chassis out at McMahan's, there hasn't been as much going on. However, a lot of the custom parts are finally start to trickle in. Tomorrow, the MCoupe rear suspension/complete rear end should be delivered.

Ron Davis custom radiator with integral oil cooler.

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/rad1.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/rad2.jpg

Woodward steering column

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/steeringcolumn1.jpg

JB Racing flywheel for use with 5.5" Tilton Clutch

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/flywheel1.jpg

FuelSafe Fuel aluminum 15gal cell, custom fill plate with 1.5 roll over vent and sender provision. Need to add a an-6 return to the plate.

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/fuelcell1.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/fuelcell2.jpg

If you did not already get it, I would also suggest the 3 bolt firewall bearing from Woodward.

What are you doing for the universal joint between the column and the rack?

If you did not already get it, I would also suggest the 3 bolt firewall bearing from Woodward.

Already have it, just didn't unwrap it and take a pic. Didn't seem worth it to go with the 2 bolt "lightest bearing available"

What are you doing for the universal joint between the column and the rack?

Vorshlag has a piece. It's a little pricey, but just one less thing to be designed/fabricated. At this point, time is my most precious resource ;-)

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_17_71&products_id=169

Cool. Would have made it a lot easier if I could have bought that last year lol

Nice to see the work is in progress.

Can we discuss Ron Davis' radiator? From what I read, water-to-oil cooling is more efficient than the usual air-to-oil. Can anyone confirm? Also, does it allow to put more oil in the engine? Is there a weight saving by replacing the old oil cooler with the integrated Ron Davis radiator? What is the street price of the radiator with integrated oil cooler?

Nice pile of parts!

Is the 3-bolt bearing metal or delrin like the 2-bolt is? (I assume it's delrin) I used the 2-bolt bearing and while it requires little fabrication to work using an adapter plate and the OEM bolt holes, I question how long it will last before it starts getting sloppy.

What clutches are you using with your Tilton 5.5"?

Can we discuss Ron Davis' radiator? From what I read, water-to-oil cooling is more efficient than the usual air-to-oil. Can anyone confirm? Also, does it allow to put more oil in the engine? Is there a weight saving by replacing the old oil cooler with the integrated Ron Davis radiator? What is the street price of the radiator with integrated oil cooler?

I had read the same thing and had talked in the past (several years ago) to some WC/GA folks who said the same thing. I can't confirm that it's any better until I try it ;-)

As far as more oil, likely not any different than any other external oil cooler, potentially a few ounces less given that it is smaller in size. I wasn't really concerned about weight savings as I did this from and efficiency/packaging standpoint. I doubt there is any weight savings as the rad itself is ~3/4 inch thicker than the Zionsville Alum rad. I'm a little worried its too thick, but I won't know for sure until I get the engine in there. It should be fine, but tight.

As far as cost, I had some last minute changes and did't get a requote, but retail will likely be $1000+. Once we use it and are sure it fits and is effective, we will be offering it for sale.

Is the 3-bolt bearing metal or delrin like the 2-bolt is? (I assume it's delrin) I used the 2-bolt bearing and while it requires little fabrication to work using an adapter plate and the OEM bolt holes, I question how long it will last before it starts getting sloppy.

It's delrin. Given my seating position, pedal kit, etc., I doubt I'll be using the stock location. I'll probably patch/weld up all the holes in the firewall before I put the column in.

What clutches are you using with your Tilton 5.5"?

Just the sintered metallic. I would have loved to go with the carbon-carbon, but it was just too damn expensive. We did source an 7.25 carbon-carbon clutch for someone and it was ridiculously light...

Chuck Stickley also runs an integrated oil cooler in his radiator with is CM monster car (hi-po S54).

Chuck Stickley also runs an integrated oil cooler in his radiator with is CM monster car (hi-po S54).

He has since changed to a separate oil cooler that is welded to the bottom of the C&R rad he runs. He use to have the C&R setup where the water cooled the oil but at many races, he was noticing an increase in temps because of this. I too have a custom Ron Davis double pass radiator and could not be happier with their customer service and turn around time. I run mine with the big fluidyne 28x3x3 oil cooler under the rad in a custom cradle welded to the frame rails.
So far, the choice in parts looks second to none and am looking forward to seeing some assembly take place.

So far, the choice in parts looks second to none...

Sorry for the OT, but your choice of parts is always awesome Jared... :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/The%20Parts%20Factory/BremboGTR_2.jpg

He has since changed to a separate oil cooler that is welded to the bottom of the C&R rad he runs. He use to have the C&R setup where the water cooled the oil but at many races, he was noticing an increase in temps because of this. I too have a custom Ron Davis double pass radiator and could not be happier with their customer service and turn around time. I run mine with the big fluidyne 28x3x3 oil cooler under the rad in a custom cradle welded to the frame rails.

Interesting. I'll of course be keeping an eye on oil temps. With the old motor, I never had an temp problems with a Zionsville Rad and a Setrab 13x5.75" cooler. The new one will be ~2pts higher in compression, so should generate more heat.

So far, the choice in parts looks second to none and am looking forward to seeing some assembly take place.

You and me both my friend, you and me both. Not much happened this weekend with Mother's Day and the grandparents flying in on Saturday. It'll be at least a couple of weeks until the cage is done so a lot of fab work has to wait until then. With the other E30 in the shop, I can start on the wing mount (once the wing is here) and the rad and fuel cell supports. They can't be finalized until the chassis is back, of course.

However, I did visit the machine shop on Saturday (near the airport, conveniently enough, and things are progress well. Both heads are just about done and the knife edging of the crank is ~half done. They had to make a torque plate for the M20 which should be done today or tomorrow so they can finish up the blocks. The motor(s) should be back from the machine shop by the end of the week so I can do the port matching and start assembly.

Anyway, a quick update with some new stuff. The dry break bits came in on Friday as well as the MRoadster rear end. I went with just picking up a complete rear end as it was easier in the long run to get the parts I wanted. The MCoupe/Roadster control arms have some additional reinforcements similar to those on the some of the DTM cars, as well as being beefed up where the rear shock mounts--important since I will be running rear coilovers. I also believe the the axles are stronger, but they aren't the thicker 37mm axles that came on the 3.2 E36 M3s. Axle strength is important since with the 5.5" clutch, I won't be slipping it to launch.

I also wanted a new rear subframe as mine was a little rusty--it will now serve as a spare. As a bonus, the rear end came with the Torsen diff--anyone ever race one? Pros/Cons vs the std clutch type diff?

Anyway, on to the pics...

Dry break "Red Head", male and female valves the vent discriminator.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/drybreak.jpg

Complete rear end. That was fun to get in and out of the Yukon ;-)
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/mroadrearend.jpg

MRoadster control arms. Note the U channel in the yellow oval turning the arm into and "A" like the early DTM control arms. In the red circle is the "camber gusset" added to the MCoupe/Roadster.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/controlarm.jpg

This pic shows area near the shock mount on the MCoupe/Roadster (top) E30 M3 (bottom). You can see the additional support structure there.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/shockmount.jpg

Yea, the MRoadster stuff is beefy as hell. One of the guys I work with has it in his E30. The bearings are monstrous compared to the standard stuff.

Sorry for the delay in updates, but I was out of town for the holidays and my wife has been travelling a bit more for work, making it harder to get to the shop. That being said, there has been progress made while I wait for the chassis to come back from McMahan.

I didn't take any pics, but I did spent a lot of time working on the KP->SpecE30 conversion. Two weeks ago, the diff was swapped out for a 3.73 (thanks Bret!) and the complete suspension was converted to SpecE30--new springs, shocks, sways, control arms, camber plates and rear subframe bushings. Once I put the heater core back in the car (and an engine of course), it should be ready to go.

I also repacked 8 wheel bearings--2 fronts for the Spec E30 car, plus fronts and rears, plus a spare of each for the M3. What an enormous PITA that was--I can see how RRT doesn't make much $ on it as it takes forever. With the fresh CV2 grease, I should hopefully be good to go for a several seasons.

On Saturday, all the engine bits were finally done at the machine shop. As it turns out, both engines were done at ~ the same time so they will be built together--different specs of course ;-)

First order of business was to prep the blocks for paint:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/readyforpaint.jpg

That thing got a HEMI?
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/gothemi.jpg

Everything laid out for assembly:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/prepforassembly.jpg

Since the motor bits I had were either from 200k+ street motors or 40k+ track/race motors, I decided to replace a lot of the little stuff in the engine. The SpecE30 gets new rockers and hardware, cam, valves, springs, retainers, etc. The race motor gets much the same except peened rockers, VAC springs and Ti retainers--different cam of course ;-)
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/lotsofsmallbits.jpg

Here's the "build bay" while my garagemate's Exige is out getting its new power plant:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/assemblybay.jpg

Raceware main studs will be used in the race block. Here the stoker crank is checked for clearance of both the block and the oil pump intermediate shaft. Sorry for the fuzzy pic:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/strokercranktest.jpg

The Spec E30 has been assembled with valve lash set--much easier to do that on the bench.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/spece30head.jpg

Starting to measure and cut ring gaps:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/ringgap.jpg

I'm out of town this weekend as well for a wedding, but brought some homework, balancing of the pistons and rods for both motors, to the house so progress can continue.

Not a lot to report that's picture worthy, but a few goodies did come in earlier this week.

As far as progress, mostly engine related for both motors. The stock pistons are balanced to within 0.1g with the exception of two, one 0.5g light and one 0.5g heavy. I would have had to take off more material than I was comfortable with in order to get them all down to the lowest weight, especially on the one 0.5g heavy. It's amazing how much aluminum it takes to equal 0.1 gram.

The stock rods have also been balanced within 0.1g with the BE/LE balance within ~0.5g or less. Without machining exact spacers for the BE/LE, it was just to difficult to get measurements that were repeatable to anything less than 0.3g or so. I tried a bunch of different methods, etc., but that was as close as I got.

The JE Pistons for the GTS motor all came within 0.3g from the factory other than one was 0.9g heavy. They are all now withing 0.1g as well--the limit of my scale.

For the GTS motor, I may have a change in plans WRT the rods. More details after the weekend...

Now onto the eye candy. After nearly two months, the wing finally came in. Mounts are 18" OC so it can be mounted to the back panel on the E30 between the tail lights. While the M3 is at McMahan's, I can use the other car for mock up.

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/wing2.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/wing1.jpg

Also, the front brakes came in, more details to follow, but here's a teaser:

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/alcon1.jpg

Who made the wing again? Do you have a side profile shot?

Who made the wing again? Do you have a side profile shot?

I went with the "Grand-Am Cup" wing from Pennon Composites. I really liked the Crawford wings that I've seen, but couldn't justify the 2x cost.

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/wing3.jpg

Just a quick update from work completed Friday night. The bottom end of the stock motor is basically done with new pistons, ARP rod bolts, a crankscraper, etc. I'll put the head studs on tonight and finish buttoning up the motor so it will be ready to install next weekend.

Pistons installed on the rods and ready for the rings and to be installed.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/pistonrod.jpg

Rod bolts were installed using the "stretch" method. It's the most accurate way to set the proper preload on the bolts. Of course, it's a lot more tedious, but once you get in a groove, it goes fairly quick. My torque wrench must be pretty accurate as the recommended torque setting with very close to the stretch recommendation.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/rodbolts.jpg

All pistons installed
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/rodsin.jpg

Fitting of the crank scraper. This had been on another motor and had to be trimmed slightly to be installed. Much easier to do on an engine stand rather than in the the car ;-)
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/crankscraper.jpg

Oil pan on:
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/bottomend2.jpg

All done and ready for the head...
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/bottomend3.jpg

Well, I thought I would get to installing the motor this past weekend, but that didn't happen. I did get the Raceware head studs installed, the head on the block and timed as well as water pump and the various covers, etc. Cleaning all the little bits, covers, etc. takes forever...

I did hit a few roadblocks with a major (time) setback. When I was checking the timing on the head, there was just a little too much friction from 140-250 deg or so and I felt a vibration in the pan. Crap. When installing the pan, the crank scraper must have shifted/got misaligned. Sure enough, pulled the pan and the crank scraper was rubbing on one of the counterweights. Further trimming, cleaning of RTV off the four surfaces, etc. took several hours. Grrr...

I didn't take much in the way of pics along the way, but here's a couple of the progress through the end of the night.

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/specengine1.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/specengine2.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/specengine3.jpg

John, is the car back from McMahan yet?

I want to see what you guys did before sending mine off to him.

BTW, any chance I could borrow your rotissere?

Thanks,
Mike

I just spoke to McMahan earlier tonight and I'll be picking it up on Saturday. :redspot I'm very excited to see it and get started on assembly.

You're welcome to use the rotisserie as long as you pick it up and drop it off--it's damn heavy. The crossbars are both very long and very heavy ;)

Thanks John! Do you think the 1 ton dually should be able to handle it, or should I bring the F450?:D

Can't wait to see the pics of the cage, you and Jack did a great job planning it out.

Mike

NP. The big problem is going to be length, not so much the weight. Probably < 500lbs total, if not < 300lbs. Send me a PM and we can setup a day/time.

We'll see how it turns out. It helps that we both have been working with McMahan for years and that I've been talking to him every couple of days. I only wish it was closer so I could check it out weekly--pics and phone conversations only go so far.

That is super clean. Major props!

Can't wait to see the pics of the cage, you and Jack did a great job planning it out.

If you come by after next weekend to pickup the rotisserie, you can see it in person ;)

I just spoke to McMahan earlier tonight and I'll be picking it up on Saturday. :redspot I'm very excited to see it and get started on assembly.



JVH

Are you stopping off in the D on your way through?

I just spoke to McMahan earlier tonight and I'll be picking it up on Saturday. :redspot I'm very excited to see it and get started on assembly.



You'll prolly be as excited to pick-it up as he will be to see it go :)... then again maybe a tear will drop his eye, being the labor of love that it was

me: "How's John's cage coming"

McM: long-sigh... pause... "That cage has the record number of bars in it..."

JVH

Are you stopping off in the D on your way through?

Nope. Leaving work after the market closes on Friday and crashing at One Eck Plaza in Akron Friday night. Picking up the car Saturday morning and heading back to Chitown...

Nope. Leaving work after the market closes on Friday and crashing at One Eck Plaza in Akron Friday night. Picking up the car Saturday morning and heading back to Chitown...

When 'Los and Jack make their trip Chicago to help reassemble the car, remember to keep the impact away from 'Los. He likes to make everything "good and tight".

If you come by after next weekend to pickup the rotisserie, you can see it in person ;)

Sounds like a plan. I will ping you in a few weeks.

Thanks,
Mike

Sounds like a plan. I will ping you in a few weeks.

Thanks,
Mike

Cool. Wait too long at it might be out getting paint. I might take a day or two off of work to do all the pre-paint fab so I can get it back quickly...

Another short update. I was only able to get to the shop briefly in the last couple of days, so all I got accomplished was a little more dressing of the motor.

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/specengine5.jpg

People have asked for pics of the valve cover. It's just engine paint from autozone...
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/specengine4.jpg

I also looked at mounting options of the Bosch "race" alternator. It's not going to work with the stock mounting bracket (at least on a M20)--the stock mounting bracket is too wide. It's just another thing to be added to the "fab" list...
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/boschalt.jpg

Also this week, I wired up the buttons on my steering wheel. I have two in the "T" of the wheel (Sparco) and 2 the are added with the Sparco two button adapter. The two in the wheel will be for PTT as they have always been and the "add-ons" will be for the IQ3.

Lastly, the big news this week is that McMahan is done with the cage. I'm off to Akron this afternoon and will pick up the car tomorrow morning. I can't wait to check it out. Pics to follow, of course ;)

Nice build. Love the engine work so far.

What differentiates the BOSCH "Race" Radiator from a regular one?

Nice build. Love the engine work so far.

What differentiates the BOSCH "Race" Alternator from a regular one?

Fixed it for you.

Mike

Nice build. Love the engine work so far.

Thanks! Just been taking my time and thinking it through. The M20 is not that complicated...

What differentiates the BOSCH "Race" Radiator from a regular one?

The race ALTERNATOR ;) is half the weight, much smaller in size, has dual internal cooling fins, better bearings (so I'm told) and has an output 55 amps vs. 90 amps. I'm still researching more details as it isn't in the true "Bosch Motorsports" catalog, where alternators are almost all over 2000EUR!

Fixed it for you.

Mike

Jeepers! What the heck was I thinking:confused

Thanks.

Thanks! Just been taking my time and thinking it through. The M20 is not that complicated...



The race ALTERNATOR ;) is half the weight, much smaller in size, has dual internal cooling fins, better bearings (so I'm told) and has an output 55 amps vs. 90 amps. I'm still researching more details as it isn't in the true "Bosch Motorsports" catalog, where alternators are almost all over 2000EUR!

Gotcha - thank you. 2000 Euro - must be the bedazzled version.

Yo JVH,

So how close to this does that cage look and how close to 172 lbs is it?

C'mmon hurry up with the update, need my car pr0n for the week. ;-)

Carlos.

As mentioned previously, I went to Akron this weekend to pickup the car from McMahan. The cage design was followed pretty closely and lots of good nodes. We decided to not put in the lower "windshield diamond" bars as planned as I was conserned they would hamper visibility too much. McMahan fits the cages so close to the body, no plates were necessary at the A-pillar, etc.--just welded straight to the body.

The cage came in at about 190lbs. Chassis weight is currently 641lbs and left weighing 441. The sunroof has been welded in as well as the rear spring perches were tacked in which is probably around 10lbs.

Anyway, lots to do, so on to the pics

Overall side view
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage1.jpg

Door opening, straight X design
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage2.jpg

Closeup of the door gusset
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage3.jpg

Gusset b/t door X and windshield header to A-pillar base plate
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage4.jpg

Dash bar with trans tunnel supports
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage5.jpg

Gusset on strut tower bars
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage6.jpg

Strut tower support. The metal on the E30 is much thicker here than on the E36
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage7.jpg

Front view
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage8.jpg

Main hoop "supernode"
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage9.jpg

Roof diamond. Sunroof is welded in.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage10.jpg

Jack point--vertical tube continues through the floor
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage11.jpg

Rear of the cage. Subframe mount point is integrated into the cage
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage12.jpg

Trunk portion. Rear diff/subframe is integrated as well
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage13.jpg

Heavily reinforced rear strut tower
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage14.jpg

The other side. Interesting that the stock chassis has a slightly different shape on each side.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage15.jpg

Closeup of the rear diff/subframe integration. Not welded yet until final positioning is confirmed.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage16.jpg

More of the rear of the cage
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/cage17.jpg

We moved the seat quite a bit on Saturday, inboard about 2 inches, slightly more upright and a little further back
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/seatmount6.jpg

Inside seat mount is as far inboard as you can go and can still get the bolts in.
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/seatmount7.jpg

Me Likey!

Nice cage!

I'd love to see how the bottom side of the rear diff mounts look.

:redspot, that the bees knees. I assume Jack's cage is going to be the same design?

Nice cage!

I'd love to see how the bottom side of the rear diff mounts look.

Thanks. It will be similar to how the Group A cars were done. A block of Alum between the top of the diff carrier portion of the subframe and the floor of the trunk will take up the space. We'll put studs in the diff to make install/removal much easier.

Very nice John, hope to see you out at the track soon.

Steve E.

Nice work!!! I'm anxious to see the rear diff mount!

:redspot, that the bees knees. I assume Jack's cage is going to be the same design?

+1

How's the entry exit with the extra a-pillar bar?

Very nice John, hope to see you out at the track soon.

Steve E.

I'll be out at Autobahn for the NASA race in three weeks in the Spec E30 car at a minimum, hopefully on the 11th or 12th to shake it down. If that timeline is agressive (probably), I may take a day or two off of work to test the week before the race.

You out there almost every weekend?

Nice work!!! I'm anxious to see the rear diff mount!

I'll post pics when it's done. I'll probably do a test fit so I can weld up the through tubes in the next week or two. I need to get the Al subframe bushings in first.

+1

How's the entry exit with the extra a-pillar bar?

Hard to tell for a "door closed" exit since there are no doors yet, but with it open, it's not any worse than the Spec E30 car. The seat is at least 4 inches further back, so that helps a lot.

Egress was the main reason I went with this design rather than from the windshield base to center of the roof bar (Watts style)--with the much smaller window opening of the E30 and my "above average" size, I wanted to be sure I could get out with the door closed.

I've never seen it tested, but the NASA rules specify that you must be able to get out of the car via the window opening in <15 secs (<10 sec with door open). I didn't want my cage to preclude me from meeting this requirment, especially since I think it is a very good one.

John

nice work on the cage......

Cage looks great! How long was the car in Akron?

Cage looks great! How long was the car in Akron?

I took it out there in the end of April. He had about 3 cars to finish up before mine, so the start was delayed, and he threw out his back in the middle of my build, taking him out for 10 days. I would have preferred to have it 2 weeks earlier, but considering the complexity and his schedule, not too bad. Doesn't really matter as it was done right, and that was the most important thing...

Thanks. It will be similar to how the Group A cars were done. A block of Alum between the top of the diff carrier portion of the subframe and the floor of the trunk will take up the space. We'll put studs in the diff to make install/removal much easier.So the dumb questions of the day. Do the two studs replace the diff cover mount? Are they the two forward bolts by the input to the diff or the two rear ones more or less over the output flanges?

I suppose you need to two forward ones to hold the diff to the subframe and then use the two back ones to hold the diff to the shell with the subframe sandwiched between. I guess you could then drop the rear diff cover mount ear and flanges as the studs will be more secure then that anyway.... I dunno, is that right? (sorry, just I've never seen pics of a Group A diff mount)

In my cage, it's the two rear bolts that will be replaced by studs and connected to the cage. The front diff mounts right under the rear bulkhead, so lining that up is pretty difficult, plus it is a pretty long span to the front diff mounting points, requiring lots of fabrication to get it right, etc.

I'll likely put studs on all four mounting bolts so I can just slide the diff straight up. It might make fitting the stock driveshaft (which may be replaced anyway) a little tricky, but it should make diff swaps overall much easier.

Here's a pic of the rear diff mount from the underside on a GroupA M3
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/diff-4.jpg

Here's a pic of the front diff pickup from Gustave's site, which I didn't do:

http://www.e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/misc-tech/dp_dtm/pics/rear_diff_mount_to_chassis.jpg

I'll be out at Autobahn for the NASA race in three weeks in the Spec E30 car at a minimum, hopefully on the 11th or 12th to shake it down. If that timeline is agressive (probably), I may take a day or two off of work to test the week before the race.

You out there almost every weekend?

I'll be at Putnam this weekend, then BeavRun the following with the CCA races. I'll be back at Autobahn for the Full Track Friday that same weekend as the NASA race. Got friends coming in from St. Louis for the NASA event, got to show the lads a good time at ABCC after they were so hospitable at Gateway.

Steve E.

Very nice cage

I finished up the button wiring on the steering wheel last night. I started this a week or two ago, but redid some of it as the old in the wheel buttons were feeling sticky. The in the wheel buttons will be for the radio PTT and the two add-ons will be for button 1 and 2 for the IQ3.

buttons
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/steeringwheel1.jpg

wiring
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/steeringwheel2.jpg

Insane cage. Wow!

John - Hope those in-wheel buttons that come with the wheel hold up for you. In my experience, they cheap out pretty quickly. A good quality PTT button costs a bit, but is well worth it.

John - Hope those in-wheel buttons that come with the wheel hold up for you. In my experience, they cheap out pretty quickly. A good quality PTT button costs a bit, but is well worth it.

Those are actually the 3rd set in the wheel that I've had for 5 years. They are just cheapie radio shack ones, but easy enough to replace. I had trouble finding anything that appeared to be of any quality with a 1/4" mounting diameter. Any suggestions? Having the buttons break would suck, but at least the PTTs are redundant...

SEXY and solid CAGE!

nice build!

I had trouble finding anything that appeared to be of any quality with a 1/4" mounting diameter. Any suggestions?

Drill out the wheel to a larger size? That's what we ended up doing.

Drill out the wheel to a larger size? That's what we ended up doing.

That was option B. If these fail, I'll get a bigger/better button--the cap seems kinda fragile and stick out a good bit, so I'm worried about it breaking off. The buttons that came with the add-on are pretty nice, we'll see how they hold up.

JVH,

Are the other two buttons, the ones that came with the Sparco kit? If so, the backsides look different than mine which have blade type terminals. Maybe it is the heat shrink that is throwing me off.

You may want to find a away to attach the cable to the hub/wheel as a strain relief for the button connections.

JVH,

Are the other two buttons, the ones that came with the Sparco kit? If so, the backsides look different than mine which have blade type terminals. Maybe it is the heat shrink that is throwing me off.

You may want to find a away to attach the cable to the hub/wheel as a strain relief for the button connections.

They are blade connectors and are very similar to the original ones, IIRC. The cable will be zip-tied to the wheel--just didn't have any at home...

They are blade connectors and are very similar to the original ones, IIRC. The cable will be zip-tied to the wheel--just didn't have any at home...

No zip ties around the house! Time to hand in the man card;)

I went with a heavier gauge coiled cable. It can be a bit annoying in the pit when the wheel is unwound. Not an issue on track. May change it at some point.

BTW here are those IQ3 install photos I owed you. Used two pieces of Al angle bolted to the column support. Suprisingly stiff and didn't vibrate noticeably at Grattan.

My wiring is not as pretty, but it is zip tied to the hub :)

No zip ties around the house! Time to hand in the man card;)

I went with a heavier gauge coiled cable. It can be a bit annoying in the pit when the wheel is unwound. Not an issue on track. May change it at some point.

LOL. I have some at the house, somewhere, prolly still in a box. Still unpacking from the move to the new house at the end of March--the wife's/kids stuff is done, but my time is focus on the build right now. I _know_ where they are at the shop ;-)

BTW here are those IQ3 install photos I owed you. Used two pieces of Al angle bolted to the column support. Suprisingly stiff and didn't vibrate noticeably at Grattan.

My wiring is not as pretty, but it is zip tied to the hub :)

Damn, that is some beefy coiled cable. I went with 22 gauge since there is little amperage going through the buttons.

Damn, that is some beefy coiled cable. I went with 22 gauge since there is little amperage going through the buttons.

Mine is 3 conductor 18 gauge. Definitely overkill!

Lots of family time this weekend, so not as much time as I would have liked spent on the car this weekend. That said, I did get a good bit done, but not too many pictures--the battery on the camera died.

First on the list was replacing the stock bushings in the MRoadster rear subframe with solid Al mounts. I was trying to go the "elegant" route and replicated the parts factory tool and use the press to push the bushings out. That proved to be frustrating and fruitless so I went old school--torch and a big socket. Unfortunately that wasted too many hours, oh well. Anyway, I needed the solid bushings so I can finalize the position of the rear diff support. I should have done this before sending the car to McMahan--ah hindsight. Now all I have to find is M12x1.5 studs in ~140mm length, which is proving more difficult than I thought. Anyone have a a good source?

Next up, I needed to clean out the accusump. Not only had it been sitting for a while, but the previous engine went kerblammo and the last thing I wanted was to push metal shavings into the new engine. I knew that Canton-Mecca would clean them for you, but after talking with them, it's very simple. You void the warranty if you scratch it inside, but if you are careful, it's not a problem. Replacement o-rings are <$10 and took about 30 minutes including fabing up a "pin wrench" for the caps, so a no brainer for anyone reasonably adept. Pretty simple device, but cool to see it apart.

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/accusump1.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/accusump2.jpg

With M3 taking so long, the focus is somewhat shifted to getting the SpecE30 car running so I can qualify for the NASA Championships. On Sunday, I got the engine mostly dressed (still missing a few bits) and in the car, now I just need those parts, put in the flywheel,trans and exhaust and it should be ready to go, hopefully. The intake manifold looks like crap, but I didn't have the time to paint it--next winter...

http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/specengine8.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/specengine9.jpg
http://www.lm-motorsports.com/images/bfc/specengine10.jpg

I want to get to ACC this weekend to shakedown, then be ready to race next weekend. Oh, in the mean time, I'm scheduled to take the M3 to paint on 7/21, so I've got to huslte on that fab as well--I might have to take some time off of the day job to get it done...

First on the list was replacing the stock bushings in the MRoadster rear subframe with solid Al mounts. I was trying to go the "elegant" route and replicated the parts factory tool and use the press to push the bushings out. That proved to be frustrating and fruitless so I went old school--torch and a big socket. Unfortunately that wasted too many hours, oh well. Anyway, I needed the solid bushings so I can finalize the position of the rear diff support. I should have done this before sending the car to McMahan--ah hindsight. Now all I have to find is M12x1.5 studs in ~140mm length, which is proving more difficult than I thought. Anyone have a a good source?


j-

I've got some weird stuff from:

Ametric Supply
2461 N. Clyborn
773.871.4450
ask for MiMi

j-

I've got some weird stuff from:

Ametric Supply
2461 N. Clyborn
773.871.4450
ask for MiMi

Thanks! I'll have to stop by on the way home from work tomorrow.

Hi John,

Can you tell me about the vibration damper on your motor. I have a DM E30 with an M20 and I am running a Electromotive Ignition. I had to adopt a universal trigger wheel and fabracate my own sensor bracket. The setup you have looks much cleanier than mine. I just found out the e34 525i with the M20 has that setup. I'm not sure if the harmonic balance would be the same. Any info would be appreciated.

Michael

Hi John,

Can you tell me about the vibration damper on your motor. I have a DM E30 with an M20 and I am running a Electromotive Ignition. I had to adopt a universal trigger wheel and fabracate my own sensor bracket. The setup you have looks much cleanier than mine. I just found out the e34 525i with the M20 has that setup. I'm not sure if the harmonic balance would be the same. Any info would be appreciated.

Michael

The one shown in the pics above is the stock M20 part. Other than paint this is a stock motor for SpecE30 so no trick parts. I don't recall if John has something else on his DM/GTS M20 or not, he'll have to chime in on that.

Cheers.

The one shown in the pics above is the stock M20 part. Other than paint this is a stock motor for SpecE30 so no trick parts. I don't recall if John has something else on his DM/GTS M20 or not, he'll have to chime in on that.

Cheers.

Ok. Looks like the one pictured is Part Number: 11 23 1 726 961 and fits:
e30 BMW 3-series coupes and sedans: 1984-1991
e30 BMW 325ic convertibles: 1987-1993
e34 BMW 5-series sedans: 1987-1990

The one I have is Part Number: 11 23 1 705 764 and fits
e30 BMW 325e coupes and sedans: 1984-1987
e34 BMW 5-series sedans: 1982-1987

Visually they look the same except for the teeth on the outside. I wonder if there is a way to tell if they are both "balanced' or 'weighted' the same!?

Ok. Looks like the one pictured is Part Number: 11 23 1 726 961 and fits:
e30 BMW 3-series coupes and sedans: 1984-1991
e30 BMW 325ic convertibles: 1987-1993
e34 BMW 5-series sedans: 1987-1990

The one I have is Part Number: 11 23 1 705 764 and fits
e30 BMW 325e coupes and sedans: 1984-1987
e34 BMW 5-series sedans: 1982-1987

Visually they look the same except for the teeth on the outside. I wonder if there is a way to tell if they are both "balanced' or 'weighted' the same!?

There is also another 'e' damper, 11 23 1 714 855 which is for production dates of 9/87+. Not sure how that one compares to the other 'e' damper you noted.

As for 'balanced' or 'weighted,' not sure exactly what you mean here. For static weights the ETK shows:

961: 2.8kg
764: 2.59kg
855: 2.6kg

Cheers.

Hi John,

Can you tell me about the vibration damper on your motor. I have a DM E30 with an M20 and I am running a Electromotive Ignition. I had to adopt a universal trigger wheel and fabracate my own sensor bracket. The setup you have looks much cleanier than mine. I just found out the e34 525i with the M20 has that setup. I'm not sure if the harmonic balance would be the same. Any info would be appreciated.

Michael

As Jack mentioned, that's just the stock "i" part with some paint. In my previous GTS engine, I also ran the stock part, but once you get about 7500 rpm or so on a regular basis, it starts having issues.

Do you have an aftermarket balancer? It's something on the list to look into "later", but since I'm keeping revs down on this motor (broad tq curve hopefully), it not a huge issue for me, yet....