Well i've started a weekend job, and im working on gettin a full time job in line for the summer. The funds I make are going straight to my BMW and gas. So far, i've been thinking a 5 speed swap, and then stroking the m50, basically turning it into an s50. IF there is anything left over i'll put in some new wheels. (big if there) My project for now is new speakers, which my dad is paying for (christmas present). My expertise is limited as far as the tranny swap is concerned. Should i hit the books on how to swap for a few months while I get the parts together, or try and find a mechanic to do the swap for me?

Also, my M50 got a new head and headgasket about 3k miles ago, therefore i feel bad about opening it back up to stroke it. Is this operation going to be extremely costly? If so, could i go with a small turbo to operate at low boost: 5-6psi? Which setup is going to be cheapest and which will make the most power? I know that to stroke it and put some new cams in and software would bring it to the 230 at the wheels range which would be nice. Turbo could be even more but ive heard that they are quite costly. Any help would be appreciated i know i've got alot of time to contemplate but I love giving thought to it.

and how old are you?:confused

Go with the stroker. At least that way there is a ceiling in sight. With FI there is always more boost and more boost.

Learn as much as you can about the 5-speed swap and DIY. There's more than one thread on here dedicated to such a thing. S50 cams + used S/C set up will be cheaper than stroker + turbo.

MMmmmmmm boost creep!

whats wrong with stroke, bore, and turbo?

You will always make more power with a turbo than with a stroker unless you're building an all out race motor that only lasts 3 - 4hrs. But, you can stroke and bore it out and turbo it... but no one does that :devillook

S52

S52 is horreeeble idea

You could always go with a VF engineering M50 SC kit. That would get you to 300hp crank, for, I guess, a reasonable budget.

i'd say just do cams and stroke it. and then if you're still itching for power and you have lots of $$, turbo it, since you'll get even more power out of that. It'll be more unique if you're into that. but i'm not an expert so listen to 5mall5nail5 more than me lol

but no one does that :devillook

:nuts

they'd be off their rockers

find s52 shortblock and swap it in with your new head. no reason to stroke when an oem solution is avail inexpensively. if you were local i could point you to a good used unit-

sell the 525 and buy a 540

sell the 525 and buy a 540

instant stroke there lol.

so if i could find a reasonably priced supercharger setup, it would fry the auto tranny right? What about if i just stroked it and got new cams, would the power kill the auto as well?

so if i could find a reasonably priced supercharger setup, it would fry the auto tranny right? What about if i just stroked it and got new cams, would the power kill the auto as well?

Yes, and yes. You can't really get away with much, other than a chip, if you have this crappy GM autotragic/autodramatic/slushbox/etc. A supercharged or stroke/cam/exhaust (or both? :devillook) engine would blend the tranny to a juicy pulp.

Might sound like this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=B8H29jU8Wrs)?

in that case, would these two above stated options fry a getrag s5d 250g five speed?

they dont call it getrash for nothing

Hmm, is the ZF 4HP22 tranny in my 525i more durable than the Getrag in the newer E34's? I talked to Todd over at TCD about putting a turbo on my auto and he said that although I wouldn't get as much power as a manual, I wouldn't have any problems in terms of frying my tranny. I've heard from quite a few people that it is a common misconception that automatics are weak and cannot handle more than stock power.

So what is the official word on these trannys, are they really that bad, or is everyone just repeating what they have heard? How many people here have personally or actually know someone that has destroyed a E34 trans by turboing it?

never needed to boost it to destroy it. M50 autos drop like flies with stock power alone.

IIRC the max torque is 210 ft lbs on the a4310s. stock engines make ?170?

Hmm, is the ZF 4HP22 tranny in my 525i more durable than the Getrag in the newer E34's? I talked to Todd over at TCD about putting a turbo on my auto and he said that although I wouldn't get as much power as a manual, I wouldn't have any problems in terms of frying my tranny. I've heard from quite a few people that it is a common misconception that automatics are weak and cannot handle more than stock power.

So what is the official word on these trannys, are they really that bad, or is everyone just repeating what they have heard? How many people here have personally or actually know someone that has destroyed a E34 trans by turboing it?

4hp22 should be capable of taking all the power you can throw at it assuming yours is relatively fresh.

I hear so much negativity in regard to the automatic trans durability and performance. That being said, there is a reason you see far more automatics in competitive drag racing than manuals. Autos can be built to take alot of abuse and the dirty truth is they are far better at shifting gears than people are....now i Know more than a few may chime in about their lightning fast shifting abilities, i've heard all that before and those that claim gear changing immortality always have an excuse ..and a red face..so to those may i apply a pre-emptive fuck off. There is alot of mechanical talent here, when will someone investigate these most common failures and address them, the 4hp22eh has a huge amount of shift overlap and a soft hit ....most likely for comfort and smoothness. will the case take extra clutches..more pressure? how much electronic crap can the trans live without?..more stall?

I hear so much negativity in regard to the automatic trans durability and performance. That being said, there is a reason you see far more automatics in competitive drag racing than manuals. Autos can be built to take alot of abuse and the dirty truth is they are far better at shifting gears than people are....now i Know more than a few may chime in about their lightning fast shifting abilities, i've heard all that before and those that claim gear changing immortality always have an excuse ..and a red face..so to those may i apply a pre-emptive fuck off. There is alot of mechanical talent here, when will someone investigate these most common failures and address them, the 4hp22eh has a huge amount of shift overlap and a soft hit ....most likely for comfort and smoothness. will the case take extra clutches..more pressure? how much electronic crap can the trans live without?..more stall?


As I've said many times, the 4hp is fine as it is. I've been given this info by a ZF rebuilder. I'm sure there are line pressure mods you can do, but the weak point of the 4hp is not the clutches, or anything like that, it's the floating planetary. Figure out how to convert from a floating to a fixed planetary and you'll have spent way too much money on a transmission that doesn't need it. To avoid grenading a planetary, there's some simple rules. Make sure the gear you're looking for is engaged before hammering the throttle, this goes for reverse to drive, and drive to reverse. Taking it out of park, let drive engage before punching it.

You can wind it out, you can beat the bag out of it, but doing stupid stuff like that will kill it in no time, it's basically the same thing as a neutral drop, and that's to be avoided as well.

You should be able to get a higher stall converter for a 4hp, I don't know where to look, but I'm sure they're out there. Try looking for a jaguar or Peugot, they all take the same 4hp22, don't know about converter interchange though. Don't know how you'd go about increasing pressure internally, that's one for the pros.

The big reason drag racers use an automatic is to stay consistent, bracket racers especially. Once you get into serious racing it's not exactly your grandfather's automatic transmission anymore.

Here is a high stall converter for the 4hp if you are interested.

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/product-97-13-33-3000rpm_Stall_Converter.php

well thats all fine and dandy that the 4hp can handle it, but the bentley tells me that this trans is resvered for 1989-1990 and mine is a 95, which has the thm-r1. any info on the rubustness of the thm-r1?

well thats all fine and dandy that the 4hp can handle it, but the bentley tells me that this trans is resvered for 1989-1990 and mine is a 95, which has the thm-r1. any info on the rubustness of the thm-r1?


Throw it in a lake.

I told you what it was...
a GM france built 4l30e, designed for use in low power midsize or compact cars. (in today's bloated sizing, that means compact or subcompact.)
Commonly found in such bastions of tranny robustness as the isuzu rodeo/ honda passport.

I hear so much negativity in regard to the automatic trans durability and performance. That being said, there is a reason you see far more automatics in competitive drag racing than manuals. Autos can be built to take alot of abuse and the dirty truth is they are far better at shifting gears than people are....now i Know more than a few may chime in about their lightning fast shifting abilities, i've heard all that before and those that claim gear changing immortality always have an excuse ..and a red face..so to those may i apply a pre-emptive fuck off. There is alot of mechanical talent here, when will someone investigate these most common failures and address them, the 4hp22eh has a huge amount of shift overlap and a soft hit ....most likely for comfort and smoothness. will the case take extra clutches..more pressure? how much electronic crap can the trans live without?..more stall?


Autos can take a lot of abuse after you throw several thousand dollars at them... and they do not typically shock the driveline after the initial launch as much as a 5 speed, and they have less gear shifts, AND THEY CAN BE LINEBRAKED. That is why you see them... consistency. The really big power cars (in case you hadn't noticed) all run air shifted manuals... why? Gear on gear is more durable and efficient. I love autos... I love the th400 and even the th350, the 4l60e and the 4l80e and the 727, c4 and c6. all have been in hotrods and muscle cars from the factory, all have been used in Trucks and all (except the c4 and th350) have been used behind torquey big blocks and thus all are imminently tweakable.

THe only way to get a 4l30e to accept power, is to take it out, throw it in a corner and upgrade to a 4l60e with a standalone trans controller, it is a shhht design tranny that replaced the 3 speed unit used in the Chevy Chevette with an OD added. IE back when the CORVETTE had about the same power as an M50... this is in essence the size tranny they used in their WEAKEST AND LIGHTEST CAR!!! Here is a great list of cars to avoid buying in automatic... including the z3...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_4L30-E_transmission Even the lothed "metric" tranny, aka the th200R4 accepts more torque and is more reliable than the 4l30e in a midsized application.

Get serious... the upgraded convertor costs 50-70% of a 5 speed tranny conversion... one with all the fixins costs 2x -3x as much... LOOK on IPT, they have parts for the damn things. it makes no sense to have a more expensive, weaker, heavier, less serviceable and less maintenance friendly tranny, when you can swap a 5 speed in.

any info on the exact 5 speed tranny? Im thinking it's the getrag 260. are there any other 5 speeds out there that are beter than the gm getrag 260?, since i have heard some negative comments on it. I did some research and found that the m5 manual can apparently handle lots oh torque, so should i try and find one of those?

any info on the exact 5 speed tranny? Im thinking it's the getrag 260. are there any other 5 speeds out there that are beter than the gm getrag 260?, since i have heard some negative comments on it. I did some research and found that the m5 manual can apparently handle lots oh torque, so should i try and find one of those?

If I am not mistaken the E34 M5 tranny (Getrag 280 I think) has a M30 style bell housing so will mot fit an M50 block without an adapter plate. I am pretty sure the bell housing is non removable. Someone here will surely correct me if I am wrong.

correct.
two trans used behind m50 525is

zf310 (most robust, but hardest to find, rarest <7/92 different xmember, outputcircle, so different ds needed... many hard parts NLA from BMW )

getrag (much easier to find and find parts for)

wich one has the removable bell? I've heard of it but never ran into one yet. still would like to see full throttle tire chirping shifts from my 4hp. I use a transbrake in the dodge thats about as close to a neutral drop as i would want to get.....damn that hits hard.

alright here it is as simply as i can state it: im afraid that if I install a getrag 260 five speed, and end up stroking the motor, that my newfound power will kill the new tranny. If this is the case, what 5 speed manual do I need? i'm only asking because i did some reasearch and wikipedia says max torque for the getrag 260 5 speed is 221lbs torque.

221? dosn't the s38 make more lb/ft than that? I have a getrag 260 here from the //M6 atleast if memory serves me correctly it is a 260 and it seemed damn beefy. besides breaking stuff is half the full, its how you eliminate the weak links

I didnt read the previous post, but...

A 5spd and turbo will be the best decision you ever make. 540's are nice in stock NA power, but a turbo m50 will surpass that power at low boost. My advice is to start beefing up the brakes and suspension, then piece by piece start purchasing turbo parts. You could DIY turbo your m50 for $2500 and easily make a 350-400whp DD.

Hell, look up urinemachine and you'll see what i mean.

i'd love to go turbo but the prices have been killin me. Yea ive herd that the parts are cheap but ive heard tuning is expensive and difficult. i bet urinemachine has spent crazy amounts of money on it.. and lots of cash is what i dont have lol

i'd love to go turbo but the prices have been killin me. Yea ive herd that the parts are cheap but ive heard tuning is expensive and difficult. i bet urinemachine has spent crazy amounts of money on it.. and lots of cash is what i dont have lol

Yea, tuning is where it will get you. Although there are plenty here that would be happy to help you out if you went megasquirt standalone.

I myself have been going back and forth with ideas on my next project... either turbo m52 e36, turbo m50 e34 or turbo m52 e28. We shall see this summer, ive been busy planning:devillook

i'd love to go turbo but the prices have been killin me. Yea ive herd that the parts are cheap but ive heard tuning is expensive and difficult. i bet urinemachine has spent crazy amounts of money on it.. and lots of cash is what i dont have lol

Then stop dreaming about stuff that you can afford in ten years.

Chill out, fix what you have, and don't throw piles of money at your car trying to make it something it isn't.

You can't go making threads about FI, etc. on bottlecaps with a stock M50 slushbox.

Then stop dreaming about stuff that you can afford in ten years.

Chill out, fix what you have, and don't throw piles of money at your car trying to make it something it isn't.

You can't go making threads about FI, etc. on bottlecaps with a stock M50 slushbox.

point taken, but i'm not trying to make it anything super special thats gonna cost 15grand and run crazy quarter mile times- just trying to give it some more horepower so it doesnt feel so damn heavy and is even more fun to drive.