Bear with me so I can set this up…

Decided to turbocharge a M3 early last year. Being no stranger to performance cars I knew I needed to buy an “extra” car since my 98M3 is my daily driver, is in excellent condition and I really didn’t want to modify it. Decided to go OBD1..and the hunt was on. I was looking for a 95M3 with a blown engine since I was going to have to do a light rebuild anyway I might as well buy one that was already in trouble. Found one after 2 months of searching. Bad rod knock is what the owner said. Mechanic told him not to drive it. He parked the car and bought another. Was going to rebuild it but lost interest. I offered him some ridiculously low number and he took it. We came back with the trailer. Fired the car up. Didn’t seem to have a rod knock since it was rhythmic. Got it home, put it on the lift and discovered the rod knock was a bad rear alternator bearing. Great. So now I have a perfectly good 95M3 and I’m going to tear the engine down? Funny how things change.

My buds were into doing HPDE’s. I have raced for 20+years all forms of motorsport but very limited asphalt experience. They talked me into prepping the car for road racing and out of turbocharging…for now. I ran my first DE in late May of last year and promptly did 6 more for a total of 7, 2-day events! Yeah. I’m hooked. I just love it. Why am I telling you all this? Well we need to discuss goals with any project and intended use of the vehicle. This car will NOT be a daily driver. It pretty much is a track car as it sits. From delrin bushings to coilovers with aggressive springs, I pretty much have the car where it needs to be chassis/suspension-wise for doing HPDE’s. I KNOW a turbocharged car on a road course is going to be tempermental and require more engineering and maintenance. Since again, it’s not a daily driver I will make the sacrifice. BUT if I have *trouble* I will pull the engine and go with an upgraded S52 NA. So keeping that in mind here comes the build.

The S50 was disassembled mid December. Decisions were made based on wear and HP goals. BHP goal of this car will be around 450-480hp. The car will operate between 3500rpm and 6500rpm 90% of the time it’s running. Of course I want nice, smooth acceleration around a turn and a nice ramp up into peak torque coming off a turn. So “some” lag is not a REAL big concern for my usage. I estimate between 4300rpm and 6500rpm is where I want the bulk of my power to come. Based on the condition of the engine, the above listed goals AND what I could get a decent deal on the following “work order” was created. Cylinder walls were out of spec for standard-size so we went .20over and are using Wiseco Pistons and Eagle Rods. The block is bored to within .005 of it’s final bore and will be finished honed when the pistons arrive(1 more week). Of course we will plateau hone the block. The crank was simply polished since it was also within tolerance. Std size bearings put us at the + side of the clearance tolerance but ok nonetheless. Same with big-end of the rods. Block was decked to attain surface finish ONLY. Same with head. Neither were warped or damaged but I wanted a 30RA finish for the MLS gasket. New valves, valve springs, lifters and retainers will be installed…all stock sized. A very light cleanup was done on the intake ports and a 3 angle valve grind is being applied. Of course the blueprinting will really start on assembly and to make sure of compression ratio so the proper head gasket is purchased. I decided on standard ARP head bolts and main bolts and the eagle rod already come with arp bolts so fastener-wise I’m good to go. I hope to start assembly of the engine around 2nd week of February.

Let’s talk turbo stuff now, ok? I may have made some bad decisions but I think I’m pretty close. Please feel free to critique with constructive comments. I got a pretty decent deal on a AA T3 sized log type manifold that is ceramic coated. With heat being a concern I figured on starting with a bottom mount system and going from there. I figured the ceramic coating would help me a tad. Turbo selection ended up being a T67 with a .81 hotside housing. It’s a T3/T4 Hybrid that should do a decent job as well. Hot side of the intercooler will be fed with 2.5” and the cool side will be 3”. I have a porsche “803” HFM for metering. HKS 40mm wastegate which will return to a 3” downpipe and a 3” exhaust system with a Magnaflow muffler and a high-flow cat. 65lb injectors will be fed via a Walbro GSS341 Pump with a 3/8” ID feed and 5/16” return. Stock injector rail will be modified to accept the lines and a simple FPR will be used. Spec2+ clutch, JBR flywheel and a 3.38 from a M3 auto will complete the driveline. Again, while not optimum most of these selections were used because I had the stuff or got decent deals.

Let’s face it. Hardware selection may be hit or miss but you eventually get that right. The REAL secret to bmw turbocharging is tuning. I will stay with OBDI dme and seek tuning. I don’t care how far I have to trailer it. I hope I can send my dme to a tuner and get a break-in “rough guess” tune and then either dyno it locally or take it to them for a final tune. My tune will be easy…I’m not looking for top horsepower, economy or even perfect cold-starts. I’m looking for a safe tune with 93 octane that’ll run in 100 deg ambient air with a CR of around 9:1 and 18-20psi of boost for 30 minutes or so without dropping my engine parts all over the track.

So where am I now and where the hell are the pictures? Well, I have about 95% of the parts and machine work completed. I’m waiting on my head to return. I had to send the head and block out since we do not have the equipment to provide the surface finishes they demand. Everything else we do in-house. So in a week or 2, I’ll be assembling. I will have some pics loaded tonight/tomorrow, but hey you’ve guys seen all this stuff before. What I will be listing is my blueprinting specs. Clearances, etc.

For example I completed an interesting exercise as far as cylinder distortion goes via head being torqued down. Since I do not have a torque plate for a BMW application I first wanted to see if one was/is necessary for MY LEVEL of build. That is, ARP 10mm head studs and roughly 65ft/lbs of torque. I found it wasn’t necessary. Measurements were taken in 3 planes of the bore ½” from the top and ½” from the bottom and recorded for each cylinder. We then put the stock gasket on and torqued the head down and remeasured the above parameters again. No dimensions changed more than .0003 in any coordinate so the use of a torque plate is not necessary for THIS build. Now that’s NOT to say that if I had one, I wouldn’t use it. We also CC’d the combustion chambers at 35CC. I will be flowing the head when I get it back and will publish those numbers as well.

This is where the motor will meet the car:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/garagerear.jpg


So, that's it for now. My "end" date will be March 30th. That is by the end of March I want to have the car completely assembled and fired up WITH the break-in tune. I will hopefully make arrangements with the tuner I select to then do a final tune around the middle of April. I will post dyno number when I'm finished as well and let you know what worked, and what didn't. So hey, follow along the next couple of months and see another fool dump copious amounts of cash into a project that he will NEVER see again:eek::D

Don

Nice don looks good glad you went with the .81 as we talked about - I think it'll be exactly what you're looking for!

Good luck!


If you need that plate let me know jay should have ours done this weekend/next week

I would suggest scrapping the S50 block and buying an M50 block run the S52crank with cusdtom piston,s and some Eagle rods...You end up with around 2.9liters. And almost 5mm of extra bore spaceing. You can stick the M3 head and cams on the M50 block. Also run 1/2 inch head studs, with a STOCK gasket.. DO NOT RUN MLS Gasket! On a road course they do not last.

Heat of course is the enemy of your enemy...so to speak...A few things are MUST DO items...

1. HUGE radiator!!
2. HUGE oil cooler!!
3. HOOD VENTING! Almost as important as the first two. You need an extractor vent in the middle 11 inches or so from the roundel (per Pablo) To suck as much air through the radiator and out of the engine bay. Then your choice of ducting on the sides, NACA duct or some old school vents.

You can forget running 18-20 psi for 30 minutes wide open. Maybe on the street but not the track. On track you want to limit the boost to 12-maybe 16psi...I would also run methonal injection, you need all the cooling effect you can possibly get..

Although thermal coatings are dandy..The wrap on a race track seems to work better. One thing to buy for the turbo is a Boost Logic blanket..Its without a doubt the nicest one I have ever seen its DAM thick! Also you will need to wrap the crap out of the down pipe from the turbo back past the transmission...Why? The heat from the down pipe will heat soak the tranny and you end up with a tranny that will not shift...My E28 turbo and M3 had the same probelms after about 15 minutes at warp 9.9 in 100+ degree weather...After I wrapped the piss out of them they worked fine..And the M3 had thermal coating on the turbo, manifold and downpipe...Basically a waste of money I will be heat wrapping the piss out of the 325...

My next track car is the 325 sedan basically converted to M3 specifications and all kind of reinforcements welded into the chassis Running the M50 motor with S50 cams and a power goal of 320-375whp max. Anything over 400whp in an E36 chassis on a track is hard to put to the ground...

And the 96+ auto has a 3.38 diff. I have one works GREAT!!!

Ive been doing road course stuff since 1991. And have tracked three turbo cars. Controlling the heat is a major issue. Once you get it under control its not bad. The power is addictive:)

Gary, I didn't mean running 18psi wide open for 30 minutes. I know I'll have to leave off...like in every corner?:D Not sure about the MLS gasket situation since I've read mixed things.

Big radiator...check. S/W water pump....check. Oil cooler on it's way. Under hood venting is also being taken care of....and you're right about the diff...I forgot it is a 3.38 from the auto M3.

Sounds like my track monster engine might become a nice street motor then:D

Oh well, we'll give it a try and see what happens.

Thanks!
Don

MLS on track = KIA head gasket... Feel free to try it...;)

If you REALLY want a Bullet proof HG get the PPF one with Pyramid rings that has to have the block machined.

Even letting off you can't run 18psi....You can try it though ;)


Make sure the hood vent in the center is an extractor type vent.

MLS on track = KIA head gasket... Feel free to try it...;)

If you REALLY want a Bullet proof HG get the PPF one with Pyramid rings that has to have the block machined.

Even letting off you can't run 18psi....You can try it though ;)


Make sure the hood vent in the center is an extractor type vent.

Wow, how come in all my searching I've never found authorative answers like these before?

I know about o-ringing the block. I just didn't consider it for such a low HP/PSI/compression combination.

Good lord, my whole build is going to shit real quick!!

Don

Good lord, my whole build is going to shit real quick!!

Don

Sucks doesn't it?

Wow, how come in all my searching I've never found authorative answers like these before?

I know about o-ringing the block. I just didn't consider it for such a low HP/PSI/compression combination.

Good lord, my whole build is going to shit real quick!!

Don

Because unfortunatly very few guys with turbo cars actually go to the track, besides 1/4 mile...The ones that do, learn crap the hard and fast way...

I have a motto for a turbo track car..."overkill is still not enough..."

I'll be posting my build up of the 325 track/baby hauler/daily driver later this year...Including my errrr special engine project:shifty

I know plenty of turbo cars that go to the track and do fine... in stock form.

Nothing special about a porsche 996tt and 1 bar of boost, it works just fine. They have pretty typical head gaskets.

Nice don looks good glad you went with the .81 as we talked about - I think it'll be exactly what you're looking for!

Good luck!


If you need that plate let me know jay should have ours done this weekend/next week

Thanks for the offer...I may take you up on it.

I'm a little confused about the MLS gasket failing. I thought it was the .140"s in bad tuning/over-boosting situations that failed. I know of 2 cars that ran 10psi with belt driven superchargers and popped stock head gaskets. We even had a couple of head gasket threads that produced no conclusive evidence that MLS gaskets, when used as designed failed.

So with a safe tune, 18psi and 9:1 compression I'm going to pop MLS head gaskets? I understand getting rid of the heat...I think my plans are pretty solid in that area. But if it's all for nothing, I'm not going to do it.

Would a change to 12mm studs help? Or am I just better off looking for a low-boost solution like a supercharger? I'm in no need of "massive" power...I've had that before(like 1320hp to be exact). But I DO need a reliable track car. Perhaps I should change my plans? I don't mind changing now while I still can.

Anybody else want to offer advice besides Gary(I appreciate your experience with track turbos) and Jon(thanks too)? Anyone else???

Don

I know plenty of turbo cars that go to the track and do fine... in stock form.

Nothing special about a porsche 996tt and 1 bar of boost, it works just fine. They have pretty typical head gaskets.

Ahh Jon...I'm talkign about BMW's with S50/S52 powerplants..And as far as I know there are maybe four or five guys running on Big tracks with FI...

ANd a Porsceh head is desgined far diffrent. the older cars use rings and sleeves and no gasket like you typically think. They rarely blow..They melt pistons...Ive had a few apart over the years, 930, 935 954..etc.....


Hey Don go checkout how many actual track turbo cars are on the list..you will find very very few....All have blown MLS gakets....Of any thickness...

The 12mm studs work or use L19 studs in 11mm...

I have garage envy.

It really depends on the intended boost and compression ratio. IF you have the cooling sorted, you can run a reasonable amount of boost on pump gas just fine... even on a stock HG and stock bolts.

If you are going to use a MLS to lower compression, you'll probably be fine. They hold up fine to "abuse", just not to time.

Cooling and tuning are the key factors.

9:1 CR and 18 psi of boost is 19:1 effective CR.
If your goal is 450-480 crank HP, thats only ~400 wheel. Should only need 12 psi or so at 9:1 CR.

I'd look at the SPA manifold as compared to the AA manifold. I'd also consider a much smaller turbocharger.

MLS on track = KIA head gasket... Feel free to try it...;)

If you REALLY want a Bullet proof HG get the PPF one with Pyramid rings that has to have the block machined.

Even letting off you can't run 18psi....You can try it though ;)


Make sure the hood vent in the center is an extractor type vent.

Is the PPF HG the next best thing to O-ringing the block?

Ahh Jon...I'm talkign about BMW's with S50/S52 powerplants..And as far as I know there are maybe four or five guys running on Big tracks with FI...

ANd a Porsceh head is desgined far diffrent. the older cars use rings and sleeves and no gasket like you typically think. They rarely blow..They melt pistons...Ive had a few apart over the years, 930, 935 954..etc.....


Hey Don go checkout how many actual track turbo cars are on the list..you will find very very few....All have blown MLS gakets....Of any thickness...

The 12mm studs work or use L19 studs in 11mm...

No I am aware of how the older motors were, but there are tons of flat motors (new porsches I believe do have a conventional HG) including the STI, and inlines like the Evo... skylines, etc that do tons of track time without issue. It all comes down to tuning and proper setup. I believe its completely safe to do. However, I wouldn't run 10mm studs. I also wouldn't run 11mm.

Is the PPF HG the next best thing to O-ringing the block?

I believe the PPF deal basically semi sorta is o-ringing, because from my understanding you still have to machine a groove. But, it's been a while.

The stud thing is a somewhat difficult subject. moving from undercut 10mm studs to something else changes the properties of the clamping force. A more "rigid" stud may not be such a hot idea for anything other than drag racing.

The stud thing is a somewhat difficult subject. moving from undercut 10mm studs to something else changes the properties of the clamping force. A more "rigid" stud may not be such a hot idea for anything other than drag racing.

It's pretty arguable though. There are a lot of race cars that use large studs (for instance my custom studs are actually spec for some GM circle track motor).

It's pretty arguable though. There are a lot of race cars that use large studs (for instance my custom studs are actually spec for some GM circle track motor).

The M50 based motors aren't GM circle track motors. Different application, different part.

Do you think there is no reason the ARP studs Spec'd for the M50 based motors are undercut?

The M50 based motors aren't GM circle track motors. Different application, different part.

Do you think there is no reason the ARP studs Spec'd for the M50 based motors are undercut?

You're right, they're not. I never claimed they were. They're spec for a car that is. Supras run standard shank studs on and off the circuit track. They came 1/2" from the factory. They have no problems. Have you actually tried it or is this skepticism?

You're right, they're not. I never claimed they were. They're spec for a car that is. Supras run standard shank studs on and off the circuit track. They came 1/2" from the factory. They have no problems. Have you actually tried it or is this skepticism?

I find engineering to be a very good way to approach problems. "what other cars use" isn't engineering.

one of the problems with a bigger stud is the change in the way the system is loaded/clamped.

I find engineering to be a very good way to approach problems. "what other cars use" isn't engineering.

one of the problems with a bigger stud is the change in the way the system is loaded/clamped.

That is absolutely correct that it changes the load/clamp. We are measuring the head and all is well. We are torque plating the block with the studs/torque to compensate for any warp.

A bajillion other iron block/aluminum head cars use non-undercut shanks and have way better HG record than the BMW motors. The S52/S50 are especially troublesome as they are less forgiving.

Engineer all you want, I will recommend what others are doing and having better success with it.

That's all I am getting into Techno550, I don't want to argue further.

1/2 inch studs :buttrock and a few other tricks:D

It really depends on the intended boost and compression ratio. IF you have the cooling sorted, you can run a reasonable amount of boost on pump gas just fine... even on a stock HG and stock bolts.

If you are going to use a MLS to lower compression, you'll probably be fine. They hold up fine to "abuse", just not to time.

Cooling and tuning are the key factors.

9:1 CR and 18 psi of boost is 19:1 effective CR.
If your goal is 450-480 crank HP, thats only ~400 wheel. Should only need 12 psi or so at 9:1 CR.

I'd look at the SPA manifold as compared to the AA manifold. I'd also consider a much smaller turbocharger.

Well I have the AA manifold and I have the turbo. I am not using the MLS to lower compression as I'm running Wiseco's at 8.8:1. I have not measured my compression ratio YET but I'm calculating it to be around 9:1 since I'm having the head and block surfaces prepared to meet the specs of the MLS gasket. We are taking a bare mininum off since the block and head are both flat. I bought the MLS because I figured it was the better sealing system as it seems to be on every other application!! But I'm finding doubt as far as BMW goes such as the cases Gary makes.

Yes, I would be very satisfied with 450-480hp. I did my airflow calculations and selected this turbo because it was a good price AND it put me dead center of the map based on my RPM goals. Maybe that's where I messed up on turbo selection? Maybe I picked too high of a RPM range? I don't want to run out of torque at 5500rpm. I want the car to really work in the 4500-6500rpm range. I'm perfectly willing to live with the lag at lower operating RPM. Was this incorrect? I have no problems buying another turbo if so. What will it hurt lowering my boost to 15psi max and still use this turbo? I also want a tune on 93 octane and I do NOT want to run any kind of water/alky injection system.

Cooling. I have a huge Griffin radiator in this thing. It barely makes it between the frame rails and the core is like 67mm or something. I know I'll have to get creative with getting rid of heat. I have no problem engineering the air flow for the car to get rid of the heat under the hood. But will that make this combo tolerable and reliable on the track Mike? I respect your opinion because like Gary, I know you do some road racing as well. That IS the primary purpose of this car. I will do at least 10 events this year and the last thing I want to do is water down the track for others(I'll run no antifreeze, just straight distilled water and anti-rust/pump lube additive).

Thanks for the help.

1/2 inch studs :buttrock and a few other tricks:D

A bead of weld?? :)

1/2 inch studs :buttrock and a few other tricks:D

Well I can do the 1/2" studs if there is a consensus that it will help with MY application. But I'm not turning a few "tricks" for just anyone:)

Could you be more specific? hehehe

Thanks CC.

You're right, they're not. I never claimed they were. They're spec for a car that is. Supras run standard shank studs on and off the circuit track. They came 1/2" from the factory. They have no problems. Have you actually tried it or is this skepticism?

Supra 2jze does not come with 1/2 inch stock....Ive seen more than my share of Poopra motors in pieces at my buddies shop. He specificlly sold a motor someone had converted to 1/2 inch because the Headgasket for it was ridiculous since they use an MLS gasket from the factory.

They come with 11mm...

Sorry GGray I screwed up my wording, I meant that stud kits for the supra come in 1/2 whereas we have to go out of our way to custom gather 1/2" studs

Well I can do the 1/2" studs if there is a consensus that it will help with MY application. But I'm not turning a few "tricks" for just anyone:)

Could you be more specific? hehehe

Thanks CC.

I plan to try the 1/2 inch out on an M50 I have. Not sure exactly how its done I plan to figure it out...I have two spare motors:D

Mike's car is the most bullet proof track driven turbo BMW on the boards...If that tells you anything. And his tune is dead on. I plan to have him tune my car whenever I get the dam thing turbocharged...Work and family thing=no time...:(

Neil..blown...stk HG, MLS HG, back to stock and lower boost... TS
Jim..blown..stg HG, MLS HG, I think he is on number two or three now, SC
Pablo...Blown stock, Blown MLS, back to stock last time I checked, Turbo
Gary...Blown Stock,Going to low compression pistons and stock gasket/studs
Moadster...Made 600whp on stock HG
Paradim //(spelling) made 600ish on stock gasket....

I would hate to see someone have the same problems as the above. If you notice the stock S50/S52 gaskets seem to hold up to and slightly over 600whp...

On reason I am doing the M50 is becasue how reliable Mike's car is on the track under boost..I think an S50/S52 would be fine as long as the power is around 400whp or so...The closer you get ot 600whp the more likely the HG will fail..at least from the last three years I have been hanging around on this list...

And the tune is very important...Based on the Supra's and other turbo cars I have seen being tuned at my buddies shop it seems to me the m50/S50 based motors do not like lots of timing...But thats just an observation...

I've seen some Supra maps, they seem to be right around our timing figures too. Tough call.

The problem is that there is a maximum force that the head can tolerate before bending out of shape, I havent fooled around I6 heads yet, but blindly speaking, is there a way to spread the studs seating aera to a wider/higher aera to spread the load more evenly to increase the clamping force without warping ??
A drawback on bigger fasteners, is the lack of bolt stretch, imagine for example when the engine gets up to it's temperature, the aluminium expand more and the force increase (more due to big diameter) and could distort the head.
The best fastener is the one that operate close to it's yield point, good long stretch at the max clamping force, to increase this force, both head and fastners need an upgrade.
I believe that the supra head has a thicker deck so they may use bigger studs for that reason, but it's not verified.

The problem is that there is a maximum force that the head can tolerate before bending out of shape, I havent fooled around I6 heads yet, but blindly speaking, is there a way to spread the studs seating aera to a wider/higher aera to spread the load more evenly to increase the clamping force without warping ??
increasing the clamping force may not be all of the solution.
The clamp on the top side of the head is provided by the washers. There isn't much room to use larger washers. They also won't provide any greatly increased distribution. each seat area is on a tall rib in the head. The head isn't "folding" around these points.



A drawback on bigger fasteners, is the lack of bolt stretch, imagine for example when the engine gets up to it's temperature, the aluminium expand more and the force increase (more due to big diameter) and could distort the head.
This is why the replacement bolts are undercut. :)

The best fastener is the one that operate close to it's yield point, good long stretch at the max clamping force, to increase this force, both head and fastners need an upgrade.
I believe that the supra head has a thicker deck so they may use bigger studs for that reason, but it's not verified.
The best fix is generally not just thicker fasteners for this reason. Usually the key is to increase the yield strength of the fastener.

So Mike you are saying use aomething like an L19 in 10mm instead of going to 1/2 inch? I know the L19 is much stronger.

I know The Supra guys tried the 1/2 route and it ends up being expensive, for a Supra guy to call it expensive is pretty bad..So now most of them use L19 fasteners...

This is why the replacement bolts are undercut. :)


The best fix is generally not just thicker fasteners for this reason. Usually the key is to increase the yield strength of the fastener.

So using a larger diameter UNDERCUT fastener would NOT improve yield strength if the same alloy was used? Since your torque value would increase would you not have relatively the same stretch distance yet an increase in clamping force?

ARP has 12mm undercut head studs the correct length. Drilling/tapping this block is a piece of cake.

So using a larger diameter UNDERCUT fastener would NOT improve yield strength if the same alloy was used? Since your torque value would increase would you not have relatively the same stretch distance yet an increase in clamping force?

ARP has 12mm undercut head studs the correct length. Drilling/tapping this block is a piece of cake.

if the 12mm bolt is not undercut to the same diameter as the 10mm studs, it won't have the same characteristics.

if the 12mm bolt does have the same undercut diameter, and is the same material, then it is no stronger.

if the 12mm bolt is not undercut to the same diameter as the 10mm studs, it won't have the same characteristics.

if the 12mm bolt does have the same undercut diameter, and is the same material, then it is no stronger.

Why would I want the 12mm undercut to equal the same diameter of the 10mm stud??????? I'm using a bigger fastener to gain yield strength? I'm saying if you use the 12mm stud with an undercut and increase your torque you gain yield strength and still have the same stretch distance for head movement.

Why would I want the 12mm undercut to equal the same diameter of the 10mm stud??????? I'm using a bigger fastener to gain yield strength? I'm saying if you use the 12mm stud with an undercut and increase your torque you gain yield strength and still have the same stretch distance for head movement.

the idea behind the undercut in the first place was to hit a diameter where the stretch region of the fastener is at X. if you are trying to maintain that specific X, you can't use a bigger fastener. a 12mm that is undercut to the same as a 10mm straight shank will have the same strength, at which point why would you not use a straight shank 10mm?

the idea behind the undercut in the first place was to hit a diameter where the stretch region of the fastener is at X. if you are trying to maintain that specific X, you can't use a bigger fastener. a 12mm that is undercut to the same as a 10mm straight shank will have the same strength, at which point why would you not use a straight shank 10mm?

Exactly. So if you use a 10mm fastener with a .030 undercut and at a torque value of 50 ft/lbs it has X stretch and X lbs of clamping force. So, if I use a 12mm fastener with a .030 undercut and a torque value of 65ft/lbs it would have the SAME stretch of the 10 mm fastener but have more clamping force.

I would NOT use a straight shank because it does not have the stretch I desire unless I go way small in thread size and then I risk pulling threads from the block.

Is this not correct??

...also let me ask you this Mike; Do you think the OEM type (composition) gasket is a better choice at say, 15psi or the MLS? I know I read you said that the MLS is better but it would need replacment more frequently. Why is that? Would the movement between the head and the block not degrade a composition gasket easier than a MLS? I thought the whole reason OEM's use MLS systems were to improve the surface relationship between dissimilar metals?

I'm really confused on this build...I'm about ready to just find some stock compression 20 over pistons and button this thing up. My primary goal is durability. I'm fully aware that with more components comes more potential for failure but I don't want to go "in" to this already behind the 8-ball so to speak because of design of the BMW block/head.

Ugh. My mind is spinning. I hate to chuck a project, but as an engineer you have to know when to put a bullet in the horse. I have no doubt I can figure out solutions to problems but that would take time and cause me unnecessary time delays.....and I ain't gettin' any younger. Different flow patterns, auxillary cooling, double-pass radiator systems etc etc.

So what does the group say about this? I buy a much smaller turbo and run at a reduced psi to start off with. See what problems I encounter.

So, here's my next question; what turbo is going to do a reasonable job for my purpose/equipment and keep me out of trouble. Recommend the PSI as well. I know that there is only 2 guys that run turbo's on road racing courses but if you know something, say it. Gary, Mike your input is greatly appreciated here.

Also, I'll be calling ARP monday morning to see if they can recommend a fastener with the same stretch properties as the 10mm undercut BUT something I could put a few more ft/lbs on and gain some clamping force. I'd sure like to machine that block while it's out of the car....and not find out later that I could have done something to make it "better".

Gary, should I dump that MLS even with the smaller turbo? If so, you recommend a stock gasket, right? Is there any other gasket options?

Thanks for the help all.

Ugh. My mind is spinning. I hate to chuck a project, but as an engineer you have to know when to put a bullet in the horse. I have no doubt I can figure out solutions to problems but that would take time and cause me unnecessary time delays.....and I ain't gettin' any younger. Different flow patterns, auxillary cooling, double-pass radiator systems etc etc.

So what does the group say about this? I buy a much smaller turbo and run at a reduced psi to start off with. See what problems I encounter.

So, here's my next question; what turbo is going to do a reasonable job for my purpose/equipment and keep me out of trouble. Recommend the PSI as well. I know that there is only 2 guys that run turbo's on road racing courses but if you know something, say it. Gary, Mike your input is greatly appreciated here.

Also, I'll be calling ARP monday morning to see if they can recommend a fastener with the same stretch properties as the 10mm undercut BUT something I could put a few more ft/lbs on and gain some clamping force. I'd sure like to machine that block while it's out of the car....and not find out later that I could have done something to make it "better".

Gary, should I dump that MLS even with the smaller turbo? If so, you recommend a stock gasket, right? Is there any other gasket options?

Thanks for the help all.

Not to spin your head any farther, but here's my opinion *In short*:

Sell the T67, get a 60-1 w/ 0.63 A/R + Stage 5 wheel, you'll be set for right around 500 crank, with some ceiling.

Since you already have the Cometic head gasket, just run it with standard 12mm studs and Mike's tune, this in conjunction with your already upgraded cooling system @ the expressed value of 10 - 12 psi will *safely* and easily produce 420 - 440rwhp, reliably.

$0.02

Cheers - Nick

Is there any warping or cracking from more fasteners force, I just question how happy is the aluminium from being crushed like this, or is the failure from the rubbing since the different metal expand differently and under more force the gasket may be filed by the block roughness and fail over time.
Maybe the aluminium block is not a bad deal at all since it expands at the same rate as the head, that at least take one headache out of the question.

Dcvee, may as well for the most successful setup known, if you use pistons to lower compression, well maybe the BMW engineers have done a good job after all and the stocker with stockish fastners is a good bet.
I tend to like the O-ring idea, providing the fire rings some extra support sounds quite good to me

Not to spin your head any farther, but here's my opinion *In short*:

Sell the T67, get a 60-1 w/ 0.63 A/R + Stage 5 wheel, you'll be set for right around 500 crank, with some ceiling.

Since you already have the Cometic head gasket, just run it with standard 12mm studs and Mike's tune, this in conjunction with your already upgraded cooling system @ the expressed value of 10 - 12 psi will *safely* and easily produce 420 - 440rwhp, reliably.

$0.02

Cheers - Nick

Sounds like a plan. I have to call ARP and see how the properties of the 12mm studs compare with the 10's. I also don't think the 12's will fit in the MLS gasket holes. However, they *might* thread. Meaning, I'll have to lay the gasket on first and then thread the stud through it and into the block. Once the threads go down through the gasket I'll hit the undercut portion of the stud and all will be fine. Drilling the head out to fit the 12's will be easy. I'm not worried about washer size since the increased clamping force of the stud will only be under the nut diameter....if I used a bigger washer I'd only gain a very small precentage of area that would be negligable at best. The washer would just deflect and take a permanent set.

I'll be going to the shop in the morning and I'll check the bosses in the head to see what size washer I can get on there that would benefit. I'll also see if the trick described above is going to work or if I need to get another gasket.

Ok, I'm feeling better now. I'll get a few more suggestions before pulling the trigger. I might even keep the T67 for another project.

Thanks for the great input.

Is there any warping or cracking from more fasteners force, I just question how happy is the aluminium from being crushed like this, or is the failure from the rubbing since the different metal expand differently and under more force the gasket may be filed by the block roughness and fail over time.
Maybe the aluminium block is not a bad deal at all since it expands at the same rate as the head, that at least take one headache out of the question.

Dcvee, may as well for the most successful setup known, if you use pistons to lower compression, well maybe the BMW engineers have done a good job after all and the stocker with stockish fastners is a good bet.
I tend to like the O-ring idea, providing the fire rings some extra support sounds quite good to me

I like the o-ringing concept too. We've done a few oring'd blocks over the years and they worked quite well. Other's in the bwm scene have already done this and proved it works...the problem is for how long? A season of passes down a 1/4 mile si WWWAAYY different than a 30 minute road racing session. And were they S50-52 blocks? Like I said...too much information!!

With my reduction in boost I think that safely takes me out of the "oring" idea and back into a standard gasket situation. But I really DO think you would gain from a stud with more clamping force. Provided it had the ability to stay under tension like an undercut stud does. I think that is important...especially with a MLS gasket.

We talk about the different expansion properties of metals. But isn't it funny how a groove in a block and a .035" wire can seal an aluminum head? And when you take them apart, you can see the indentation from the wire in the bottom of the aluminum head. If the head moved as much as some people talk that bond would never occur.

When we talk about the head moving on the block we must realize it's moving in ALL directions. IE the combustion chamber is getting smaller and the head is getting larger on all 6 sides. I mean it's not to say the block and head are acting strictly in a parrallel fashion...like rubbing 2 bricks together back and forth. Do you agree?

Skip the MLS gasket do stock Gasket with whatever studs you have already...Mike (techno 550) can chime in..Anything up to 600whp and the stock ones seem to work..My 325 will use stock gasket and run 10-15psi max at the track.

Skip the .63 housing on a 3.2 you need the .82/.81..On a 2.5 the .63 would be perfect....My car would go flat on the top end with a .60....Its GREAT for the street and mid range driving with a few bursts to redline but it just goes flat up past 5500ish rpm. Pablo warned me about the .60/.63 housing when I was building mine he told me the .82 works much better..He is right...

There is another supposed trick J holder and Evosprot did they used more dowl pins on the head...

Skip the MLS gasket do stock Gasket with whatever studs you have already...Mike (techno 550) can chime in..Anything up to 600whp and the stock ones seem to work..My 325 will use stock gasket and run 10-15psi max at the track.

Skip the .63 housing on a 3.2 you need the .82/.81..On a 2.5 the .63 would be perfect....My car would go flat on the top end with a .60....Its GREAT for the street and mid range driving with a few bursts to redline but it just goes flat up past 5500ish rpm. Pablo warned me about the .60/.63 housing when I was building mine he told me the .82 works much better..He is right...

There is another supposed trick J holder and Evosprot did they used more dowl pins on the head...

Yeah, read about the dowel pins. So stay with the arp 10mm's and use a stock gasket. Check. I also figured on the larger housing...that's why I got one on the T67. What compressor do you recommend? What are you using?

Also, what water and oil temps do you see after a good DE thrashing? I need to know what to look for. 220 water max? 250 oil?

Thanks again

I like the o-ringing concept too. We've done a few oring'd blocks over the years and they worked quite well. Other's in the bwm scene have already done this and proved it works...the problem is for how long? A season of passes down a 1/4 mile si WWWAAYY different than a 30 minute road racing session. And were they S50-52 blocks? Like I said...too much information!!

With my reduction in boost I think that safely takes me out of the "oring" idea and back into a standard gasket situation. But I really DO think you would gain from a stud with more clamping force. Provided it had the ability to stay under tension like an undercut stud does. I think that is important...especially with a MLS gasket.

We talk about the different expansion properties of metals. But isn't it funny how a groove in a block and a .035" wire can seal an aluminum head? And when you take them apart, you can see the indentation from the wire in the bottom of the aluminum head. If the head moved as much as some people talk that bond would never occur.

When we talk about the head moving on the block we must realize it's moving in ALL directions. IE the combustion chamber is getting smaller and the head is getting larger on all 6 sides. I mean it's not to say the block and head are acting strictly in a parrallel fashion...like rubbing 2 bricks together back and forth. Do you agree?

I agree, I see the head like a bar of aluminium stock, under heat it gets slightly longer, but the block gets a little less longer so the bore spacing specially at the ends can't align, it may not be very much , but it's there.

I have done a search and some cast iron can get quite close to aluminium expansion rate, and be quite far, it would be helpful to know what alloy they use to cast their blocks, for heads I assumed 319 alu

I agree, I see the head like a bar of aluminium stock, under heat it gets slightly longer, but the block gets a little less longer so the bore spacing specially at the ends can't align, it may not be very much , but it's there.

I have done a search and some cast iron can get quite close to aluminium expansion rate, and be quite far, it would be helpful to know what alloy they use to cast their blocks, for heads I assumed 319 alu



Well, we could always check the expansion difference the old fashioned way. Use a boss on the block fitted with a dial indicator that is zero'd to the head. Put one on the end and one on the side...when cold of course. Check the indicators when the car reaches operating temperature. This would show you the difference....but not how much the head moved soley on it's own since the dial indicators are mounted to the cast iron block which also expanded.

I'm ready to move ahead with my build now. I'll get some shots up tomorrow. I feel better.:D

Good luck, you'll get this done right, gonna be hella fun to abuse :devillook

Sounds like a plan. I have to call ARP and see how the properties of the 12mm studs compare with the 10's. I also don't think the 12's will fit in the MLS gasket holes. However, they *might* thread. Meaning, I'll have to lay the gasket on first and then thread the stud through it and into the block. Once the threads go down through the gasket I'll hit the undercut portion of the stud and all will be fine. Drilling the head out to fit the 12's will be easy. I'm not worried about washer size since the increased clamping force of the stud will only be under the nut diameter....if I used a bigger washer I'd only gain a very small precentage of area that would be negligable at best. The washer would just deflect and take a permanent set.

I'll be going to the shop in the morning and I'll check the bosses in the head to see what size washer I can get on there that would benefit. I'll also see if the trick described above is going to work or if I need to get another gasket.

Ok, I'm feeling better now. I'll get a few more suggestions before pulling the trigger. I might even keep the T67 for another project.

Thanks for the great input.

Don - I'll save you the leg work. 10mm and 12mm, price difference is about $40.

1/2" L19s aren't bad at all :)

Yeah, read about the dowel pins. So stay with the arp 10mm's and use a stock gasket. Check. I also figured on the larger housing...that's why I got one on the T67. What compressor do you recommend? What are you using?

Also, what water and oil temps do you see after a good DE thrashing? I need to know what to look for. 220 water max? 250 oil?

Thanks again

Water temps should be very close to your thermostat temp. Acceptable oil temps depend on the oil you use. Good synthetics are OK to 250, but you will cook the hell out of dino oil at that temp.

Water temps should be very close to your thermostat temp. Acceptable oil temps depend on the oil you use. Good synthetics are OK to 250, but you will cook the hell out of dino oil at that temp.

Thanks Matt. Yeah, I'm looking for top settings to calibrate my warning lights against...and yes, I'll be running a good synthetic. So sounds like 250 is a good number to set the red light for the oil.

I haven't really looked at the cooling system as far as the "routing" goes through the engine on the BMW...and I'll admit, I'm a bmw noob. We do a lot of trick stuff on our sprint car engines with regard to reverse flow and feeding the heads from the center-out first and then down through the block.

Since cooling is an issue with a turbo track car do you guys think there is any "need" for that? Has anyone taken a line from the water pump housing and went directly do any area of the engine or does the BMW S50-52 block/head have pretty even water distribution? Does the water from the pump go through the block first, up into the head and then out the front of the head back to wp housing and into the top radiator hose?

I have a nice sized Griffin in this thing already....the same radiator used on some WoO late models. I could also go with a double-pass radiator if this one can't keep up.

Jon- I should have figured you already investigated the 12mm ARP deal...hehe. Thanks! Based on what ARP has to say I still might do that.

Thanks for the help all.

Current radiator...pretty much fills the frame rails. I tig'd up an aluminum frame for it with a piece of channel under it...this way I have a bottom mount and top mount for my intercooler.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/136_3628.jpg
This is how BMW noobs remove cams without speciality tools. We didn't want to break them seeing how they are hollow. We simply unbolted the cam caps and then released all the clamps on one side...in harmony. Please, no laughing..:stickoutt
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/136_3691.jpg

Back up after engine removal...Nice way to put 4 cars in a 3 car garage. This morning I'm ready to hydrospray the chassis in preparation for a repaint. I'm not going to do any seam welding at this point until I know what I want to do with the car.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/136_3676.jpg

The shops "rarely used" Superflow 600 flowbench. I plan on doing a couple readings on the S50 head....just as a benchmark in case I ever do any port-work.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/flowbench.jpg

Crank balancer, align hone...we also have a cylinder hone, boring machine, head/block deck cutter etc etc. All Sunnen. I'll try to get pics as I use stuff on this project.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/137_3706.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/137_3705.jpg

Best thing about this "stuff" is it's just sitting there waiting for me to use it. Shop has pretty much done it's R&D work over 20 years and just does specific engine work for select clients...mostly WoO sprint cars and late models. Besides the crank balancer and hot-cylinder hone there isn't much else being used on a regular basis...so I can "play".

Ive been awol...i am in denver for bicyclstuff this week:D

I saw 230-250ish at Barber in the blazzing heat....

I think the water routing is a neat idea..Not sure if anyone has ever tried it..might make the headgaskets last longer...


Thats a huge radiator! i like it!!! How thick is that thing?

Don I might ask for you guys to port a head at a later date

Back up after engine removal...Nice way to put 4 cars in a 3 car garage.

Awesome idea.



This morning I'm ready to hydrospray the chassis in preparation for a repaint. .

I'm dumb, what is/the point of hydrospraying?

Awesome idea.




I'm dumb, what is/the point of hydrospraying?

Hydrospraying, same as pressure washing. I should have said pressure washing. Don't know why I said that. Nobody calls it "hyrdrospraying" anymore. Geez. I failed.:D

I figured since 25% of the car is stripped I might as well clean the bottom of the car and repaint it. I'm doing the engine bay, frame, bottom, front & rear suspension pieces all in 27024 Annodized Bronze in a semi-gloss. I think it'll look good against the cosmos paint.

JON- NP, just remember we are BMW noobs, as confessed. Hence, you may need to do some research depending upon how aggressive you wish to get. I don't want to put a carbide burr through your intake port!!

GARY-Radiator is a Griffin. I forget the model number. I think its 62mm thick? Like 2-1/2"? I'll get the width/length values and let you know. I also have the option of a double-pass system if this doesn't keep things cool enough. And yeah, I need to get "intimate" with the coolant flow pattern of the BMW engine. Again, it might be of value down the road. Don't know if reverse cooling(cooling the head first and THEN the block)is an option with the BMW. Hell, they might already be doing that....or some form of it. I know my DD 98M3 starts throwing heat out in no time at all. That tells me they are circulating water from the head of the engine to the heater core. I haven't looked enough at it to know.

BTW, I found your turbo specs so you don't need to bother posting them...and I'm looking at a .8X housing for sure.

Thanks again

Don, my turbo specs? Sorry confused.

Yeah I am not sure what if any porting would be good - a lot of guys are porting really nice heads already, and I fear they're only making things worse by slowing down the intake and screwing up the exhaust! I am interested to see your flow results. I have a non vanos head i can get you to compare.

Don, my turbo specs? Sorry confused.

Yeah I am not sure what if any porting would be good - a lot of guys are porting really nice heads already, and I fear they're only making things worse by slowing down the intake and screwing up the exhaust! I am interested to see your flow results. I have a non vanos head i can get you to compare.

LOL! No the "turbo specs" question was to Gary! I gotta learn how to multi-quote on my replies:D

I *should* be able to get on the flow bench this Thursday/Friday night and do a baseline at 28" w.c. Exhaust ports don't look too bad on the S50 head anyway(is it the same as a "non-vanos" head??). I saw a lot of anti-reversion area's that looked like these German engineers know what they are doing:stickoutt I expect to see good numbers from the head as is....

I also think the head is about as good as it gets before you start losing some performance. The only difference in the non vanos head is a 7mm valve stem which some have argued hinders flow. I'd like to have numbers that disprove that :)

The casting is different too, so I don't know what other not-so-obvious differences might be

I also think the head is about as good as it gets before you start losing some performance. The only difference in the non vanos head is a 7mm valve stem which some have argued hinders flow. I'd like to have numbers that disprove that :)

The casting is different too, so I don't know what other not-so-obvious differences might be


Well, if you're flowin' air around an object and you make that object larger you will hinder flow. So I guess the question is, how friggin' much and to what result?

That is exactly the question

That is exactly the question

I'm definetly "on" for this saturday with the flowbench. My lexan tube has been shipped to make the "intake" to fit the S50 head combustion chamber...so I'll have some base numbers for that head, stock valves, stock max lift at 28" w.c.

I also have a call into Cometic to one of their techs about using 12mm undercut studs and the effects on their MLS gasket. I searched but couldn't find any info on here about anyone talking to Cometic about higher torque values/larger studs. I'm SURE they have...but I just can't find anything.

Have you or Jay talked to Cometic by chance?

Don

nope we havent talked to them
the only thing I've been pondering is buying a sheet of annealed copper and making a copper headgasket..

but thats only after the mls fails, if it fails.

Ok, for those of you who care about FI stuff and not "my dads bigger than your dad" match racing or if a guy is ever going to install his twin-screw, :DI just got off the phone with Cometic and ARP.....

Cometic claims their "head gasket will out-perform a stock head gasket under high cylinder pressures 2 to 1 PLUS it will have the ability to move between the surfaces WAY better than a stock gasket(big shocker there, eh?). The only issue is clamping force. The tech said, you CAN have too much clamping force, his opinion is neither the factory bolts nor the arp 10mm undercuts supply "enough" clamping force in the BMW application. Of course he can't tell me any specifics regarding what clamping force is "too much" or is "not enough" he thought the 12mm-1.5 (block side) x 12mm-1.25 undercut studs from ARP would be a good match. Allowing some movement but also applying about 22% more clamping force.

Arp said they recommended the following fastener system:
Stud- AU4.800-1LUB
12pt Nuts- 300-8308
Washer- 200-8516
ARP LUBE- 1009903

Now, I may have to do a little work to the gasket to get it over the threads. I KNOW I'll have to machine the washers on the OD. Nuts should be ok. I may have to drill out the cylinder head holes as well...and I KNOW I'll have to drill and tap the block. But I will be able to without using an insert.

What I'll have to be careful of is pulling threads from the block. If I stay with 80ftlbs of torque and measure bolt stretch upon install, I'll be able to check the bolt stretch at a later time(after breaking the engine in)and see if my threads are being pulled from the block. This shouldn't require cam removal to check but may require cam removal to retorque.

So, I know none of this is rocket-science or earth-shattering news since I know bits and pieces have been discussed/tried before I just couldn't find anything searching...so maybe this post will improve that?

I'll let you know what the price of the "kit" is and hopefully, the results after a few HPDE's:D

I now return you to your regularly scheduled FI dramas......:devillook

Complete stud kit is $262. I'll have it in a couple of days.

Has anyone drilled the head studs in a BMW block completely through into the water jackets? I mean intentionally? We do that on some applications to get more thread perch....then just loctite the stud when we thread it in.

Anyone? Anyone?? Bueller???

Don't go all the way through - you should have a very good amount of thread in the stock depth hole. You WILL have to drill the head out but you will not have to cut the OD of the washer down.

Don't go all the way through - you should have a very good amount of thread in the stock depth hole. You WILL have to drill the head out but you will not have to cut the OD of the washer down.

I dunno about not cutting the od of the washer down. Guess I'll see on Mon-Tuesday. Me thinks they'll hit the valve springs.

Have you guys ever looked at reverse cooling these blocks/heads? We were looking at it tonight. Even supplying the water from the pump to the each of the 7 casting holes (4 on the exhaust side, 3 on the intake) would be a better "routing" than stock. The stock BMW pump location puts water in the front of the block, pushes it to the rear(about 70% of it), then up into the head and out the front of the head. This makes cylinders 5/6 run the hotest and the rear of the cylinder head over these cylinders the hotest also.

Can anyone confirm this? Anyone ever seen some suspicious looking braided lines going into the sides of BMW racing engines? Like under the intake? Under the exhaust manifold?

remember i am running 1/2" studs and washers, and there is like 0.002" around the washer.

remember i am running 1/2" studs and washers, and there is like 0.002" around the washer.

really? Good. I like less work to do:D What about the coolant flow pattern? Ever give that much thought Jon?

I thought about doing something else. I thought about trying to dry-deck the block all together. I have researched it on F1 cars. Basically we'd weld up the coolant passages in the block deck surface, and use one of the wide ports with a fitting welded that would pump to the head via an external line.

I thought about doing something else. I thought about trying to dry-deck the block all together. I have researched it on F1 cars. Basically we'd weld up the coolant passages in the block deck surface, and use one of the wide ports with a fitting welded that would pump to the head via an external line.

Yes, exactly. That would be one way...but likely the last way I'd do it. I'd just try a little simpler project first.

You do not know of anyone trying any modified cooling patterns on the BMW L6 designs?

nope

Removed rear end, gas tank and other stuff preparing to repair and paint bottom and engine bay of car. Faithful companion "turbo dog" Bailey was out to survey the situation. He said, "F... this circus, I'm going back in the house". Smart dog:D
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/frout.jpg


Oh boy. This is about the 3rd or 4th ripped chassis component I've found. Makes you kinda think about all the times you approached the bus-stop at Watkins Glen at 130mph:eek:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/frrip.jpg

Monday I'll drill/tap the block for the 12mm undercut studs. Then I'll see if my MLS gasket will still fit by the method I described a few posts above. If not, it'll be for sale and I'll have to have one made with larger holes.

Nice to put all my "shots of stuff that will change" in here I guess. I made this gauge panel from aluminum but I'll be painting it because it's too shiny and makes it hard to make a quick glance and focus on the track.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/gauges.jpg

Also, some changes in here too. Interior will be gutted basically. Seats(which ain't too bad)will more than likely leave as well. Cage will be installed. I'll most likely twist my own up like a "bolt in style" for this year until I see what direction I want to go with the car as far as racing.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/oldinterior.jpg

It'll be neat to see how this stuff changes in a month or two!!

nice build and garage
dosent look like a track car:shifty...i dont see any metal in the cabin:D
as for the rear subframe thanks for the image when i drop mine i run a bead there.

Are you selling the seats coming out of the car? PM me.

nice build and garage
dosent look like a track car:shifty...i dont see any metal in the cabin:D
as for the rear subframe thanks for the image when i drop mine i run a bead there.

Don't worry, there will be metal in the cabin:buttrock That's why I took the "before" shot:D

Yep, my mig has been plenty busy. I have to remove the floor insulation next before I weld anymore or I'll have a nice smokey chemical fire going!! Going to also hammer out all the dents from all the assholes that don't where to jack a car up at!!!

Are you selling the seats coming out of the car? PM me.

No, not yet anyway. I will keep you in mind tho.

Then I'll see if my MLS gasket will still fit by the method I described a few posts above. If not, it'll be for sale and I'll have to have one made with larger holes.

If you get one made get two made, I will need one! I need 0.520" clearance for studs! 0.070" thick.

If you get one made get two made, I will need one! I need 0.520" clearance for studs! 0.070" thick.

I need .070 as well. Let me check then. My studs will be in on Monday/Tuesday and I'll know when I trial fit. Prolly be Wednesday when I call.

I'll PM you to see if you're still interested.

Don

If you get one made get two made, I will need one! I need 0.520" clearance for studs! 0.070" thick.

Ok the 12mm studs are in....they screw in to the MLS gasket but when they get to the unthreaded portion of the stud, just below the undercut they stop. This is common with thread rolling. So it's a no-go.

Hell, I might just buy a top end gasket kit set since I need the other gaskets/seals and use a stock gasket for now....since I'm not going to run over 12psi.

I'll let you know what I do....I'm going to get a price/availability first.

Ok, for those of you who care about FI stuff and not "my dads bigger than your dad" match racing or if a guy is ever going to install his twin-screw, :DI just got off the phone with Cometic and ARP.....

Cometic claims their "head gasket will out-perform a stock head gasket under high cylinder pressures 2 to 1 PLUS it will have the ability to move between the surfaces WAY better than a stock gasket(big shocker there, eh?). The only issue is clamping force. The tech said, you CAN have too much clamping force, his opinion is neither the factory bolts nor the arp 10mm undercuts supply "enough" clamping force in the BMW application. Of course he can't tell me any specifics regarding what clamping force is "too much" or is "not enough" he thought the 12mm-1.5 (block side) x 12mm-1.25 undercut studs from ARP would be a good match. Allowing some movement but also applying about 22% more clamping force.

Arp said they recommended the following fastener system:
Stud- AU4.800-1LUB-
12pt Nuts- 300-8308
Washer-
ARP LUBE- 1009903



I deleted the washer number since it isn't correct. The washers are too small in diameter. They are .750 and need to be .875. When my new ones arrive I will post the washer number....in case anyone else is interested in using 12mm-1.5 x 12mm-1.25 undercut head studs.

It ain't cheap. I think Jegs rocked me 240 bucks for everything!! I'd try somewhere else since I can see the packing slip and is lists the prices ARP charged JEGS and it was $116!! I don't begrudge someone making a profit, but for godsake....

Don

Don its amazing what price you get simply going to ARP. I was baffled at how cheap my custom 1/2" setup was!

I'm all over the principle of giving business to speciality shops, but damn, that's expensive, then we bypass them and they will complain. I just quoted a SB Chevy and I think it's more than all the ARP fasteners I quoted from summit(rods, mains, head studs)

Jegs is hardly a specialty shop... :dunno

Block bored to within .005. I'll machine hone the majority and then finish with a plateau hone.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/BoreCheck.jpg

Head studs went in just fine. Bored .225" deeper than stock. Finally found a D5 starting tap and a D5 bottom tap. This is one of those jobs that took 3 weeks to decide WHAT to do, 1 week to get everything, and 3 hours to actually do it!! I'm really happy with the hardware choice.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/StudsBLK.jpg

Block gets tanked tomorrow, head will be finished middle of next week. I'll be doing pistons this weekend and balancing the crank. I'm pushing to get this thing assembled first week of March.

Also firmed up a deal on a GT30R with a .81 hotside.

Still discussing direct cooling. If you look at picture of the block, we are looking at making piping that feeds directly into the core holes. It would loop around the back of the block and feed the other side as well. It could be done after the engine is installed so I might wait and see how much of an issue heat is.

Don

Ready to hone....many thanks to Jon(u all know him) and Jay(multiplex) for the great TQ plate!! Jay, nice job on the exhaust manifold flange as well. I'll be tig'n up my own about the middle of the summer...so this will come in handy then.

Stones are lined up and ready, including finishing with a plateau hone. This baby will be assembled and setting in the car in 2 weeks. First week of April, she needs to be running with a break in tune.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Hone1-1.jpg

Don

Looks awesome Don!

Don -

Looks like your motor is coming along pretty nice. Keep posting the status.

Not to thread jack too bad but I have an update on my MLS gasket sitch ... .. . she started leaking oil up front about a week after the final torque to 80 ft-lbs and I've had it.

That piece of shit came out this evening and I am discussing o-ringing the block with a machinist friend.:eyecrazy

Don -

Looks like your motor is coming along pretty nice. Keep posting the status.

Not to thread jack too bad but I have an update on my MLS gasket sitch ... .. . she started leaking oil up front about a week after the final torque to 80 ft-lbs and I've had it.

That piece of shit came out this evening and I am discussing o-ringing the block with a machinist friend.:eyecrazy
Post in the official gasket failure thread for science sake.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=884336

Don -

Looks like your motor is coming along pretty nice. Keep posting the status.

Not to thread jack too bad but I have an update on my MLS gasket sitch ... .. . she started leaking oil up front about a week after the final torque to 80 ft-lbs and I've had it.

That piece of shit came out this evening and I am discussing o-ringing the block with a machinist friend.:eyecrazy

Sorry to hear...and don't worry about thread jack. For godsake, if this stuff isn't on topic I don't know what is!!

Since my build is for a track car and not a street/drag I elected to use the Erling OEM type head gasket. I'll not see boost over 15psi. In the future, that may change tho....;)

With the right combination of o-ring, gasket and increased clamping force I think a oring system would be a great solution.

Don

I don't think O-ringing will help in the case of leaking oil at the front of the head though. The o-rings, as we all know, only go around the combustion chamber. With 80 ft lbs of torque I seriously doubt you were blowing past the gasket. Sounds more like a head prep or head-timing cover issue. Jay saw my baby step transitioning from the head to the timing cover and insisted I take it apart and fix it - it was like 0.007" or something. when he put a straight edge across it yeah it was a decent gap. I unbolted the oil pan and timing cover and then torqued the head down, then torqued the ciming cover to the head, then timing cover to the block, and lastly the oil pan. If you don't do it this way, as Jay pointed out to me, you could definitely have a raised edge at the timing cover that will prevent proper sealing up front!

I also hylomarred the headgasket layers.

Just a fwiw.

wow, this is a great thread. I need a lift in my garage, but the bank is runnin a little low.:( is this your machine shop? or you have access? i love the diy.

im sure everything will turn out great. looks like a quality build so far.

also why do you think a torque plate is necessary??? im always hearing mixed views on tq plates. some swear by them and others say its realy not needed.

like with my honda builds, i was told to never use them. but those are factory sleeved motors so i dont know.

wow, this is a great thread. I need a lift in my garage, but the bank is runnin a little low.:( is this your machine shop? or you have access? i love the diy.

im sure everything will turn out great. looks like a quality build so far.

also why do you think a torque plate is necessary??? im always hearing mixed views on tq plates. some swear by them and others say its realy not needed.

like with my honda builds, i was told to never use them. but those are factory sleeved motors so i dont know.

Thanks. Not my shop but I do have a vested interest. I supply some work and engineering and they let me play and show me WTF I'm doing wrong!!! The 2 brothers that own the shop are top-notch engine builders and are known in sprint car/late model circles. They only do select racers engines now so that leaves all this nice equipment sitting around doing nothing all day. Just begging me to have some fun. We met through work and racing and have been good friends for quite some time.

Garage with the lift is mine and yes, that's the best 1600 bucks I've ever spent!! Really made peace with the wife since we can get 4 cars in a 3 car garage and everyone is warm and dry!!!

Somewhere in this thread you will see that I tested the bore distortion caused by the head fasteners when you torque the head on. It was nil to say the least. So, if you are doing a typical performance build I would say it is not needed on these engines. On some engines the bores distort badly due to fastener location, block design and sometimes, head design.

However, if you going with higher than stock tq values, machining new studs in and/or have easy access to a TQ plate, then yes, I'd use one.

I know some sleeve engines we've worked with in the past(Keith Black, Rodeck)have recommended not to use them also. But I have no experience with honda stuff so can't offer much help there.

Don

I don't think O-ringing will help in the case of leaking oil at the front of the head though. The o-rings, as we all know, only go around the combustion chamber.
Just a fwiw.

Agreed. I have never had an engine that leaked oil until I started using an MLS gasket.

Because of the fact that I am tired of dealing with the mystery and magic associated with the MLS gasket I removed it. I was planning to install another conventional composite gasket when a machinist friend offered to o-ring the block for a minimal charge.

Having never done this before, I am assuming that the fire ring will be punched out of a conventional gasket that will be used to seal fluid passages and the o-ring receiving groove depth will be set to compress the sealing ring a specified amount.

If my assumption is correct, my situation will improve from this change of process. I have never heard of anyone blowing combustion pressures past an o-ringed block and head. The oil situation will take care of itself now that the individual sheets of incompressible steel are going to be replaced.

Feel free to share how this really works if I am way off base. I know a little about engines but I have not yet studied o-ringing procedures in detail.

did you end up testing the head on the flowbench?

don dude, measure your cylinder run out before you hone it using the plate. let us know whats up.

don dude, measure your cylinder run out before you hone it using the plate. let us know whats up.

Will do Jon....heading over right now. Torqued the plate up Friday night....let her take a nice "set" a few days. Now it's "hone time". Just me and Mr Sunnen:D It all goes together pretty quick after the hone is complete....I'm excited.


did you end up testing the head on the flowbench?

Not yet. But I will before I put the head on. This was something I should have already completed but I got tied up helping a bud with a build locally and missed my chance. I'll do a few "pulls" at some standards values...one at 28"w.c. for sure.

Don

awesome don keep us updated

Agreed. I have never had an engine that leaked oil until I started using an MLS gasket.

Because of the fact that I am tired of dealing with the mystery and magic associated with the MLS gasket I removed it. I was planning to install another conventional composite gasket when a machinist friend offered to o-ring the block for a minimal charge.

Having never done this before, I am assuming that the fire ring will be punched out of a conventional gasket that will be used to seal fluid passages and the o-ring receiving groove depth will be set to compress the sealing ring a specified amount.

If my assumption is correct, my situation will improve from this change of process. I have never heard of anyone blowing combustion pressures past an o-ringed block and head. The oil situation will take care of itself now that the individual sheets of incompressible steel are going to be replaced.

Feel free to share how this really works if I am way off base. I know a little about engines but I have not yet studied o-ringing procedures in detail.

Hey Kurt...on oringing, best to follow whatever procedure your local shop is comfortable with. We almost always use copper gaskets when oringing but we only do race engines...and they leak water like my kidneys after I turned 40! I'll be honest and say we have oringed some hardcore prostreet type engines in the past and guys use block sealer to help with the leaks.

The trick with oringing is not sealing combustion but obviously sealing oil/water. You have 2 different types of material in between the head and the block...one of which you DON'T want too soft and the other that you don't want too hard!! So it's a balancing act for sure....and the gasket is always the hardest to balance. Then there is thickness variance between the two, wire selection and it's properties. ETC ETC!

Some other guys like Andreas can definetly help you and point you in the right direction.

Don

awesome don keep us updated

Welp, all finished. Even fit the rings while the block was still in the hone and the TQ Plate was on. Everything came out exactly as planned. Wiseco pistons were dead-nuts on. We dialed in .0035 clearance. Honed with 220, then 280. Finished with plateau brush at .004 clearance....8 strokes each cylinder. Fitted top rings to .017, 2nd rings to .019. There is virtually no taper in the cylinders. I have a few bores that taper by .0002...which is nothing. The BMW blocks true up nicely.

Before/After torque plate readings; Torqued to 75ft/lbs(12mm undercut studs). After final hone we measured top and bottom bores in 2 planes. Removed TQ Plate. Measured again and there was NO dimension out more than .0002 total! In fact, the measurements on the bottom of the bores hardly changed at all. On the top of the bores the largest shift was perpedicular to the crank. But that's not to say I wouldn't use a TQ Plate if I had one available....otherwise, I wouldn't sweat it.


Tuesday night I'll be blueprinting. First pistons, rods and then checking all main/rod clearances. Wednesday night I'll wash everything. Thursday, I'll assemble bottom end. Saturday, top end. Then the engine will sit awhile...gotta finish the undercarriage and suspension.

Don

Nice done - sounds about right. Still, can't ever hurt to be going out of your way to make it perfect :)

Let us know on those flow bench #'s

Don-

Sounds like she is coming together nicely!

5mall5nail5-

How is your motor coming along? Are you getting close to firing up your beast with the MLS head gasket prepared with hylomar? I wish you a better result than many others have reported. Be sure to keep us posted.

5mall5nail5-

How is your motor coming along? Are you getting close to firing up your beast with the MLS head gasket prepared with hylomar? I wish you a better result than many others have reported. Be sure to keep us posted.

Not many are running 1/2" studs and a custom headgasket to match ;)

Might be a little late, but wouldn't an electric water pump be a good idea? I can't imagine the stock BMW one is designed/optimized for such high RPM use, which would cause cavitation and or high parasitic loss. Also an electric waterpump would let you circulate and cool the car between sessions

Okay, back on track here. Gotta catch up. End of the month is approaching fast and I need to get this engine buttoned up.

Hone is complete, as noted earlier.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/honetqplate.jpg

Crank is balanced...had to take 1/2 a gram off cylinder #1's counterweight. Hey, we usually balance to a gram...but I figured what the heck? Added balancer, no change. Added JBR flywheel, no change. Didn't do pressure plate since that may change a little more frequently than a flywheel.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/crankbalance.jpg

Block is ready. Pistons/rings/rods are ready. Top rings needed a ton of filing. Little off the 2nd set. Damn smaller diameter rings are harder to compress against the ring grinder....my friggin' hands had grooves in them. I matched rods/pistons for weight to make matched assemblies. Wiseco and Eagle did a nice job, weights were acceptable as furnished. Wrist pins have a huge wall thickness...for some reason.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/backblock.jpg

So, crank, pistons and block all have been blueprinted. All clearances checked. I have the specs I used wrote down at the shop and I will add them to this thread. I'll be assembling the bottom end on Saturday.

One question, does anyone know the purpose of the ball/springs in the oil squirters? Are they to hold oil pressure at the main bearings during low RPM? I have 2 springs that are very weak on my oil squirters. I wouldn't think that would be of concern but I don't know the full purpose of this "check". I'm more concerned with the broken springs collecting junk and rendering the squirter useless. Maybe I'll just buy new ones.

Anyone?

UPDATE; The oil squirters are important on the S50(didn't ask about other BMW models). They have a spring and a ball inside to provide a "check" that holds oil pressure to about 12-15psi around the mains when the engine is operating at low rpm's/idle. Obviously when the oil pressure increases the ball/spring is overcome and the squirter projects oil onto the back of the piston dome.

Don

I'm ballin' now...

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/engbaypaint.jpg

It's an "anodized bronze" with a touch of black added. I'm in the process of painting the whole chassis with it. Tired of all the black...something a little different.

oh shiz! i think don just one up'd urinemachine.

looks really good. what type of paint is that? urethane? enamel?

shit is :boobies

oh shiz! i think don just one up'd urinemachine.

looks really good. what type of paint is that? urethane? enamel?


Thanks, but I could never out-pimp Jon:D It's just some straight enamel from Axzo Nobel..it's their "Utech" line or something like that. Nothing fancy here.

I did remove all the brackets and mig'd the holes shut tho...so I guess you could say I "smoooothed" it. LOL!!

Thanks, but I could never out-pimp Jon:D It's just some straight enamel from Axzo Nobel..it's their "Utech" line or something like that. Nothing fancy here.

I did remove all the brackets and mig'd the holes shut tho...so I guess you could say I "smoooothed" it. LOL!!

Looks good don :)

Pimp factor of 7 :)

Looks good don :)

Pimp factor of 7 :)

To the masta :worship:

Thanks all:D

Ok, front suspension just about complete. Rear will be finished this weekend along with the engine less head. Then I'll switch to roll bar, fuel system and exhaust. I'm behind on this build. I've got to kick it in to OD and get it finished. Summer is FAST approaching!!

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/suspfrt.jpg

looks beautiful.

must be great to have a *new* car when your build is done.

Pretty beefy looking sway bar done - looks hot

Wow. Thats pretty nice, everything will be like new! Keep up the good work and keep it coming. :)

Still finishing rear suspension work but got a little time to finish the turbo drain fitting to pan. Used a 1/2" aluminum coupling and set the pan on the mill at the angle the engine sits in the car. Used a annular cutter to drill down through the pan the same OD as the coupling. Welded the coupling on the inside of the pan and then just did a 180deg weld on the outside for structure. This gives me a dead-level drain about as high as I could get it before getting into the block....which I can't lie, had crossed my mind:D

I moved it forward of the factory baffles/sump of the M3 pan. I also baffled the inside so oil doesn't have a "straight" shot during a hard left hander.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Sidedrain.jpg

Simple job here, D&T 3/8npt S54 oil cooler for -10an x 3/8npt fittings. Only had one fitting left...:( Gotta get a few more.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Sideblockwoilpan.jpg

I've got 2 more bushings to press into the rear upper control arms and ready to assemble the rear....hopefully middle of this week the rear suspension will be complete. Gas tank in by Friday. Head/manifolds/turbo on on Saturday and she comes home for installation on Sunday. In a perfect world that is:D

Thanks for all the positive comments guys! Jon, front sway bar is a 27mm racing dynamics.

Don

Undercarriage is finished. 4pt roll bar is up to bat next....should have that buttoned up by 10pm tonight.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Undercarriage.jpg

Stance is already pretty low even without motor/trans.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/sidenoengine.jpg

Front end is hungry for some motor....

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/ebaydown.jpg

I'm running gauge wiring tomorrow night, fuel system rear bumper on Tuesday/Wed. Exhaust Thursday. Engine installed on Friday. Intercooler piping Sat. Finish fluids/check electrics on Sunday. Maybe light her off early next week.

Don

Looks good don!

looks great!

Wow .... when can I come by and see this in person! :buttrock

Wow Don, looking good. I hadn't checked the thread in a few weeks and DAMN! Good work!

I gotta respect how methodically you are going about all of this. Looks great!

Looks really good Don

Thanks all!! Yeah, I gotta get this train back on track. I got 3 weeks behind and really have NO excuse for it.

Aimal, I'm swamped! I have some chores to take care of tonight. Check your PM...I'll be sending one shortly.

I'm really looking forward to getting into some fabrication...between the exhaust/intercooling/fuel piping etc. Since all the machining is done, it's been quite boring...just cleaning and painting stuff. And removing/installing like 3 dozen bushings!!

Don

What kind of piping and lines you doing?

What kind of piping and lines you doing?

GSS-341fuel pump, relay kit. From there, braided nylon down to a filter. Filter attached to 1/2" alum tubing ending right about where the clutch line is attached to the frame rail. From there, braided stainless to the fuel rail and returning from the aeromotive regulator. 8an on feed/return and 1/2" tubing on both as well.

Exhaust I'm just using standard 3" tubing. See if I like my resonator/muffler choice. Once I'm happy with the downpipe/exhaust system I may copy it using SSL.

2.5" tubing from the turbo, 3" from the intercooler, all aluminum. NO WIGGINS!!!! Im a low-boost kinda guy!!

See how this goes...maybe build a drag motor too:D

Awesome job so far but get in there and knock something out :buttrock Then post up some pics :D

Wow! How the hell did I miss this build? Looking amazingly clean. Love the attention to detail!

Aimal, I'm swamped! I have some chores to take care of tonight. Check your PM...I'll be sending one shortly.

Don

No problem! I've been out of town since Friday night. I totally forgot about possibly meeting up Mon. night. Keep me updated as I'm stoked to see another boosted bimmer within a county of me!

BTW ... there is a TT Stage 1 in York. We should all meet up later this spring when you're done!

BTW ... there is a TT Stage 1 in York. We should all meet up later this spring when you're done!

No kidding? I work in York. What's it look like and is the owner on BFC?

Yeah, I've been a little busy. Spring. Had to do the yard work and put the mulch down. Glad thats over with.

I'll PM you today.

Awesome job so far but get in there and knock something out :buttrock Then post up some pics :D

Thanks...man I'm trying!! There's this damn thing called "life" getting in the way:D

I should be making some good gains early next week. I sure hope so.

Don

No kidding? I work in York. What's it look like and is the owner on BFC?

Yeah, I've been a little busy. Spring. Had to do the yard work and put the mulch down. Glad thats over with.

I'll PM you today.

He is actually on bf.c. That is how I found out about him. He drives an Estoril 1997 M3/4 with the TT Stage 1. We met up at The Loop or Circle - I can't remember the name and drove to that big lot in front of Best Buy or some other huge store where there were tons of cars including a Hennessey Viper.

Anyways, his screenname is BMW///M3Sdn. I pmed him a couple of days ago and hopefully he responds. BTW... are you going to the York meet on May 4th?

Ok, I'm dirt cheap on the exhaust. I'll say that up front. Why? Because I don't have the confidence on this build being my first BMW turbo and I don't know exactly what I want. So, I'll spare the SSL and just fab up some cheap pipe/components and see what I get. Then, copy it later with good stuff when all the mods are finished.

So, I'm not a fan of the big 3" single pipe look on the M3. I like the duals. But couldn't find anything that really pleased me...that was CHEAP! So I sourced a good chrome hooker 2.5x dual 3" split for 18 bucks and a summit chambered muffler also in 3". And I put the 2 together. I also have a 3" resonator to go ahead of the muffler.

First, determined where the "Y" part of the dual tip met 2-7/8". Part it with a cut-off.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/b4cutXtip.jpg

Next, we line her up ready for the tack welds.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/LineUpXtip.jpg

Ok, we weld that up after removing the chrome/aluminized around the joining areas....and we're finished.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/weldXtip.jpg

And here's how she looks. Now, it WILL be dropped about an 1" but I have not welded the hanger on the muffler yet so it's being held up with a bungee...so no laughing.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/XtipMTG.jpg

Ok, that took me 35 minutes. Would have taken 20 but I had to go downstairs and grab another beer....and stop on the way back and leave another one out:buttrock

Sound clip to follow. Also part numbers. What you see there cost me 44 bucks shipped to my door.

On to the fuel system......I cannot finish the rest of the exhaust until the motor/tranny is in the car.

Don

He is actually on bf.c. That is how I found out about him. He drives an Estoril 1997 M3/4 with the TT Stage 1. We met up at The Loop or Circle - I can't remember the name and drove to that big lot in front of Best Buy or some other huge store where there were tons of cars including a Hennessey Viper.

Anyways, his screenname is BMW///M3Sdn. I pmed him a couple of days ago and hopefully he responds. BTW... are you going to the York meet on May 4th?

No, no meets for Don...gotta get this car finished. I even turned down a free "ride" at Summit Point tomorrow because I want to get this car finished.

I'll have to PM M3Sdn and maybe we can get together. That TT kit is top notch. I have to move around between our 3 plants in York quite a bit...I cannot remember seeing the car.

Don, nice.

Nice work! Everything in your build has been nice, i like how the tips sit flush with the valence. It looks great and it was cheap :) Good job.

Ok, not many more updates to go but...I finally finished the head and installed it. First time doing the cams/vanos. Wasn't as bad as I thought. I made a "cam tool" and a crankshaft lock that works without a flywheel mounted so you can hold the crank when the block is on a stand. Anyway we did a nice job on the head. Polished, 3 angle valve job with a back-cut on the intakes, matched the valve springs and shimmed them .030 with Comp cam shims. Hell, they even had a size that fit perfect. I'll forward the number. Think it was .800 x 1.250? Fits perfectly in the counterbore of the head. Torqued the 12mm head studs to 75ft/lbs in 5 cycles releasing each stud as per ARP's instruction.

The engine is in the car. Wiring is finished. I REALLY screwed up by NOT labeling the sensor connectors. Should have marked those but I figured they were already marked because of the blue tape I saw on the temperature sensor. I put 2 new knock sensors in. I *think* I have all of the connectors back on their appropriate connection via some pixs I took before I removed everything. Assessories are back on, power steering, alternator and belt adjuster. Had to trim a little off the plastic air shroud on the alternator to clear the 10an fittings on the oil canister.

All gauge wiring was done on the left side of the car so I keep as much wiring from the turbo as possible. Manifold is on, turbo is on. Making my engine mount tomorrow night. Bought a ton-and-a-half of Vibrant aluminum tubing, 2.5 and 3" repectively. Exhaust is ready to finish weld and bolt on. Wastegate piping is test-mounted. Roll bar installed, 6 point RCI belts on both seats. Fuel pump replaced, wire direct to the battery via a 30amp relay. 1/2" aluminum fuel line for both supply and return and a aeromotive FPR finishes off the fuel system. I cycled the system for an hour making sure there are no leaks and watched the amp draw on the pump.

I'm hoping this Sunday/Monday I'll be able to light a fire in this bitch and slam a few gears. I'll post some more pixs this evening.

TRM is supplying tuning :redspot I look forward to working with them.

Don

Way to go Don! Can't wait to see you fire this thing up and get it rollin' on its own! :alright

TRM is supplying tuning :redspot I look forward to working with them.
Don

This is to tune the stock OBD1 correct? I'm sure you've already spoken to them about getting it tuned, how are you going about it without the car being onsite for them to tune?

This is to tune the stock OBD1 correct? I'm sure you've already spoken to them about getting it tuned, how are you going about it without the car being onsite for them to tune?

Yes, OBDI. I suggest you PM TRM and inquire if you have questions concerning remote tuning. I don't want to give out bad information. But it's not like I need an excuse to trailer this rig to Atlanta, get a tune and do a 2 day HPDE at RA:devillook

Way to go Don! Can't wait to see you fire this thing up and get it rollin' on its own!

Yeah. I'm tired of pushing this pig around the shop!!

Pixs this evening...

Ok, some pics.

Fuel tank piping. Just a simple Walbro upgrade, 8an line going to 1/2" OD aluminum fuel line.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/138_3887.jpg

Here's a shot of the lines. I used the stock locations but I added Delrin holding blocks instead of the stock pieces. They are not shown in this photo. The aluminum tubing worked REALLY sweet since it followed the contour of the floor pan of the car.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/138_3888.jpg

Fuel lines end up in the engine bay with the feed going towards the transmission tunnel and the return continuing up the frame rail to the FPR. I have my test loop installed so I could check for leaks/adjust pressure. I have a gauge on the FPR and a sending unit for one in the car.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/138_3889.jpg

Shot of some head work. I'm opening up the stud holes using the same clearances the factory used for the 10mm pieces. I did not have to use larger dowels since the oil pass-ports going through a couple of head stud holes are ABOVE the dowels. So, I only counterbored those holes to the same depth and clearance values that the factory had used. Again, I'll have ONE post at the end of this deal that has all my specs in it. I will include the sizes I used.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Image18.jpg

Shot of the valve compressing tool we made. Hey, take 1/2 an hour and pop one of these out. Makes this job REAL easy. If you look closely, you can see the shims under the spring seats barely sticking out.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Image20.jpg

Here's a shot of the shims. I was quite surprised the comp cams had a shim that worked out on this.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Image21.jpg

Head with the package of shims. Someone PM'd me sometime ago about the shims. Sorry I deleted the PM!! You can see the part number on the package.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Image25.jpg

Simple 3 angle valve job...nothing fancy. We did do backcuts on the intakes....second picture. Sorry so blurry but it's pretty standard stuff.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Image23.jpg



http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Image22.jpg

Engine on the stand with manifold in place.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/Image26.jpg

Shot of my homemade vano tools!! Cam holder and crank lock. Sorry about the gorilla welding on the crank lock...had to use an already welded piece of CRS since it was all I had laying around at my home shop!! Hey, it worked!!
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/139_3908.jpg

Engine finally in the bay...note the wood shim under the block/oil pan lip!! I just designed a motor mount in Solidworks. Going to fab it up tomorrow night and then it's time for intercooling!!

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/dcvee/139_3911.jpg

That's it for now.

Beautiful work! The attention to detail is great!

Can't wait to see when she is up and running...

looking very nice!

stupid question, but what does the valve shim do?

Good progress, cant wait to she is finally all ready to go, good job. :)

Seriously, the people who do this, tear their car down to nothing take the engine out, wires, fuel lines EVERYTHING...are you guys BMW mechanics?? That and the paint on the car...in, around and under the car...I just don't get it...unfair. But absolutely BEAUTIFUL!

Seriously, the people who do this, tear their car down to nothing take the engine out, wires, fuel lines EVERYTHING...are you guys BMW mechanics?? That and the paint on the car...in, around and under the car...I just don't get it...unfair. But absolutely BEAUTIFUL!

Don is actually a really down to earth nice guy and brilliant! His garage is my dream! I am really impressed by his attention to detail. He is not a mechanic btw ...

Thanks all for the kind words.

Jay- the shims under the springs provide about 5 more lbs of force measured at half of cam lift. This helps to equal-out the extra force of the FI "charge" sitting on the back of the intake valves applying 15psi. Not to mention, just helps keep the valves on their seats and provide a little extra tension when using "used" springs. These springs were from a 99M3 with 62k on it and the difference between the two(my originals from a 95 w/143k)were amazing. I'm talking like 15lbs at max lift/compression!! With the shims that was like a 22lb difference.

I believe NickG also mentioned this somewhere in a thread.

Don

Looks good don - might want to put an EGT sensor i