My AA chip from 2005 is encrypted.

I wonder if my AA chip from 98 is

and if it isnt????

:banghead:

I'd expect better from you, Cam. :dunno
You know I am a man about truth. Is this one of those "the truth hurts" type circumstances? I mean does what I say make logical sense or not? Personally I love the guys that make the chips and I love the guys who are trying to make it so that anyone can tune their own DME. I'm not in any one camp...I'm in everyone's camp. :)

I'm in everyone's camp. :)

primae noctis?

hahah sorry

Eithical debates are not the same as Legal debates. One costs money; the other costs a few beers or a bottle of fine scotch. I'm not saying which costs what, though.
:rofl:
Legal and ethical are two birds, but lets think of it this way. If I break into Picasso's study and take impressionistic portions of his work, use his brushes, his paints, his canvas, and then paint a picture thats exactly the same except I used different colors (colors being symbolic of values) and make my own Family of Saltimbanques and call it a BlownEuroz design... and then I sell it to Cameron. And Cameron takes my art and he copies it and calls it Family of Weirdos, do you think for one minute I'd come get Cam? "Hi Judge, this guy stole my art work. Yes I basically used Picassos work un-licensed to make it, but uh, thats not what is important right now..."

I am sure the Technos/NickG/JimC's would argue otherwise... but in all reality, which is worse of two evils?
:rofl:
primae noctis?

hahah sorry

:rofl:

You guys kill me.

It would be unethical to knock off someone else's tune without permission. But the law would be fuzzy here, because BMW never licensed their software to be hacked.

But I don't think it would be unethical to compare someone else's tune to an original bin to see just what things can be changed. Again, no tuner legally "owns" that knowledge, whether they pretend to or not. BMW created and owns that knowledge, and just because Jim C or whoever was the first to figure it out does not make him the new owner.

It'd be like me comparing your hacked copy of Vista to my original copy of Vista to see how you hacked it. If I then sell copies with my own version of the hack, can you sue me? Hell no! But Bill Gates can come out of retirement and sue us both.

I love analogies. You can always make them bend over to take whatever you're pushing.

Just to clarify - I don't support copying any tunes from these guys. I am just saying that I wouldn't hesitate to analyze the differences, maybe point some stuff out, whatever. I wouldn't attempt to distribute their code though. But, I will say, if any tuner did come and try and make a stink about it, I would probably spend the few hours thereafter laughing my ass off in irony.

ill still wait for the day that somebody uploads bins to chip tunes on the net, just to see what the tuners say about it

I dont remember Chris Harris getting pissed off when I uploaded a collection (20+) tunes that he did on peoples cars in order for other people with similar setups to have basemaps. Also, there are HUNDREDS of tunes from the most expensive tuners for honda/acura cars available from their own website.

This is really pathetic, people know there is a difference between tuning a car yourself and getting it done by a professional. ie: see jon's build thread.

Tuners wont lose money by stopping being so uptight. It's been proven over and over, and arguing is pathetic.

Help me understand, then, how you are an "effective" user of NTFS. I assume you probably at least have some inkling of what it is, what it does, and maybe even some clue how it does it. But do you know anything of the details? Did you help write it?

Do anyone of you other people who think the users need to know things at the firmware level even know what NTFS is? Probably not very many. Yet most of you (unless you're using Mac or Linux) use it every day. In fact, I would argue that you are VERY effective users. You know how to save files, move files, open files, make new directories, sort files, run scan disk, etc. NTFS does all of the work, and you probably don't have a clue how it works.

What is the difference? There must be thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people who run TEC3 or Motec or whatever software who haven't a clue how the hardware works, how to calculate axis values, how to follow pointers, etc. Yet they learned how to tune and are good at it. Maybe they read Greg's book.

I hear you guys hammering this point home, but I still don't get it. What am I missing?

On NTFS, there is nothing more that needs to be learned. The end user will never need to rewrite any of its functionality. There is a team of computer scientists for that job specifically... and we PAY for windows in order for that to be the reality it is.

In its current form, it is more like someone being an "end user" of matlab. If you don't know anything about the system itself, you're not a very effective user either.

There are ethics regarding hacking?
:rolleyes

That reminds me of when I asked my teacher why the hell I needed to know how to do math that a calculator or computer can do, the teacher said, "You will need to use it later in life". Horseshit I haven't had to use any of that crap where I didn't have a calculator or a computer to do it for me. Besides, I forgot it all anyway.

If you had no concept of addition or multiplication, do you think you'd always be able to rely on the calculator? Do you think you really go through a single day without any use of basic mathematical concepts?

If you had no concept of addition or multiplication, do you think you'd always be able to rely on the calculator? Do you think you really go through a single day without any use of basic mathematical concepts?
It was a bad joke that I had actually edited out so it isn't really worth quoting. I was thinking more about Calculus and such but if I was working in physics or engineering then yes, I would be using that math today. It was more of a joke, but I forgot that engineers don't know how to laugh.

why not just post it back up?

Im not hosting the file on my webserver. My bandwidth is already taxed to the limit. The person that posted the link can repost a correct one. Any one?

Im not hosting the file on my webserver. My bandwidth is already taxed to the limit. The person that posted the link can repost a correct one. Any one?

You can just open the XDF in a text editor and paste on the forum.

You can just open the XDF in a text editor and paste on the forum.
I would think someone would step up so. I guess this is how this community is all about. So here it is.

XDF
1.110000

DO NOT HAND EDIT!!!! (Trust me)

%%HEADER%%
001000 FileVers =""
001005 DefTitle ="Stock 413 Definitions"
001007 DescSize =0x0
001006 Desc =""
001010 Author ="me"
001030 BinSize =0xFFFF
001035 BaseOffset =0
001200 ADSAssoc =""
001225 ADSCheck =0x0
001300 GenFlags =0x0
001325 ModeFlags =0x0
%%END%%

%%TABLE%%
000002 UniqueID =0x2BE2
040005 Title ="Idle Fuel"
040011 DescSize =0x1
040010 Desc =""
040100 Address =0xE974
040200 ZEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040203 XOutType =0x4
040304 YOutType =0x4
040205 OutType =0x2
040230 RangeLow =0.0000
040240 RangeHigh =255.0000
040300 Rows =0x6
040305 Cols =0x3
040310 PopByCol =0x1
040320 XUnits =""
040325 YUnits =""
040330 ZUnits ="Degrees"
040350 XLabels =20,40,64
040352 XLabelType =0x4
040354 XEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040360 YLabels =14,15,24,30,50,100
040362 YLabelType =0x4
040364 YEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040660 XAxisMin =1000.000000
040670 XAxisMax =1000.000000
040760 YAxisMin =1000.000000
040770 YAxisMax =1000.000000
%%END%%

%%TABLE%%
000002 UniqueID =0x6254
040005 Title ="Fuel Part Throttle (Vanos Advanced)"
040011 DescSize =0x1
040010 Desc =""
040100 Address =0xEACA
040200 ZEq =X/128,TH|0|0|0|0|
040203 XOutType =0x4
040304 YOutType =0x4
040230 RangeLow =0.0000
040240 RangeHigh =255.0000
040300 Rows =0xC
040305 Cols =0x10
040310 PopByCol =0x1
040320 XUnits =""
040325 YUnits ="RPM"
040330 ZUnits =""
040350 XLabels =20,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
040352 XLabelType =0x4
040354 XEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040360 YLabels =680,,,,,,,,,,,
040362 YLabelType =0x4
040364 YEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040660 XAxisMin =1000.000000
040670 XAxisMax =1000.000000
040760 YAxisMin =1000.000000
040770 YAxisMax =1000.000000
%%END%%

%%TABLE%%
000002 UniqueID =0x123F
040005 Title ="Fuel Part Throttle (Vanos Retarded)"
040011 DescSize =0x1
040010 Desc =""
040100 Address =0xE9EA
040200 ZEq =X/128,TH|0|0|0|0|
040203 XOutType =0x4
040304 YOutType =0x4
040230 RangeLow =0.0000
040240 RangeHigh =255.0000
040300 Rows =0xC
040305 Cols =0x10
040310 PopByCol =0x1
040320 XUnits =""
040325 YUnits ="RPM"
040330 ZUnits =""
040350 XLabels =20,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
040352 XLabelType =0x4
040354 XEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040360 YLabels =680,,,,,,,,,,,
040362 YLabelType =0x4
040364 YEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040660 XAxisMin =1000.000000
040670 XAxisMax =1000.000000
040760 YAxisMin =1000.000000
040770 YAxisMax =1000.000000
%%END%%

%%TABLE%%
000002 UniqueID =0x3204
040005 Title ="Fuel WOT (Vanos Retarded)"
040011 DescSize =0x1
040010 Desc =""
040100 Address =0xE998
040200 ZEq =X/128,TH|0|0|0|0|
040203 XOutType =0x4
040304 YOutType =0x4
040230 RangeLow =0.0000
040240 RangeHigh =255.0000
040300 Rows =0x10
040305 Cols =0x1
040310 PopByCol =0x1
040320 XUnits =""
040325 YUnits ="RPM"
040330 ZUnits =""
040350 XLabels =
040352 XLabelType =0x4
040354 XEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040360 YLabels =680,880,1120,1320,1600,2000,2200,2480,2920,3280,3 640,4000,4600,5320,6080,6400
040362 YLabelType =0x4
040364 YEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040660 XAxisMin =1000.000000
040670 XAxisMax =1000.000000
040760 YAxisMin =1000.000000
040770 YAxisMax =1000.000000
%%END%%

%%TABLE%%
000002 UniqueID =0x2F07
040005 Title ="Fuel WOT (Vanos Advanced)"
040011 DescSize =0x1
040010 Desc =""
040100 Address =0xE9BA
040200 ZEq =X/128,TH|0|0|0|0|
040203 XOutType =0x4
040304 YOutType =0x4
040230 RangeLow =0.0000
040240 RangeHigh =255.0000
040300 Rows =0x10
040305 Cols =0x1
040310 PopByCol =0x1
040320 XUnits =""
040325 YUnits ="RPM"
040330 ZUnits =""
040350 XLabels =
040352 XLabelType =0x4
040354 XEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040360 YLabels =680,880,1120,1320,1600,2000,2200,2480,2920,3280,3 640,4000,4600,5320,6080,6400
040362 YLabelType =0x4
040364 YEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040660 XAxisMin =1000.000000
040670 XAxisMax =1000.000000
040760 YAxisMin =1000.000000
040770 YAxisMax =1000.000000
%%END%%

%%TABLE%%
000002 UniqueID =0x5ECB
040005 Title ="Ignition Part Throttle (Vanos Retarded)"
040011 DescSize =0x1
040010 Desc =""
040100 Address =0xEE8F
040200 ZEq =(X-60)*.75,TH|0|0|0|0|
040203 XOutType =0x4
040304 YOutType =0x4
040230 RangeLow =0.0000
040240 RangeHigh =255.0000
040300 Rows =0xC
040305 Cols =0x10
040310 PopByCol =0x1
040320 XUnits =""
040325 YUnits ="RPM"
040330 ZUnits =""
040350 XLabels =20,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
040352 XLabelType =0x4
040354 XEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040360 YLabels =680,,,,,,,,,,,
040362 YLabelType =0x4
040364 YEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040660 XAxisMin =1000.000000
040670 XAxisMax =1000.000000
040760 YAxisMin =1000.000000
040770 YAxisMax =1000.000000
%%END%%

%%TABLE%%
000002 UniqueID =0x5253
040005 Title ="Ignition Part Throttle (Vanos Advanced)"
040011 DescSize =0x1
040010 Desc =""
040100 Address =0xEF6F
040200 ZEq =(X-60)*.75,TH|0|0|0|0|
040203 XOutType =0x4
040304 YOutType =0x4
040230 RangeLow =0.0000
040240 RangeHigh =255.0000
040300 Rows =0xC
040305 Cols =0x10
040310 PopByCol =0x1
040320 XUnits =""
040325 YUnits ="RPM"
040330 ZUnits =""
040350 XLabels =20,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
040352 XLabelType =0x4
040354 XEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040360 YLabels =680,,,,,,,,,,,
040362 YLabelType =0x4
040364 YEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040660 XAxisMin =1000.000000
040670 XAxisMax =1000.000000
040760 YAxisMin =1000.000000
040770 YAxisMax =1000.000000
%%END%%

%%TABLE%%
000002 UniqueID =0x50B9
040005 Title ="Ignition WOT (Vanos Retarded)"
040011 DescSize =0x1
040010 Desc =""
040100 Address =0xED2B
040200 ZEq =(X-60)*.75,TH|0|0|0|0|
040203 XOutType =0x4
040304 YOutType =0x4
040230 RangeLow =0.0000
040240 RangeHigh =255.0000
040300 Rows =0x6
040305 Cols =0x10
040310 PopByCol =0x1
040320 XUnits =""
040325 YUnits ="RPM"
040330 ZUnits =""
040350 XLabels =92,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
040352 XLabelType =0x4
040354 XEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040360 YLabels =680,880,1120,1320,1600,2000
040362 YLabelType =0x4
040364 YEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040660 XAxisMin =1000.000000
040670 XAxisMax =1000.000000
040760 YAxisMin =1000.000000
040770 YAxisMax =1000.000000
%%END%%

%%TABLE%%
000002 UniqueID =0x13BD
040005 Title ="Ignition WOT (Vanos Advanced)"
040011 DescSize =0x1
040010 Desc =""
040100 Address =0xEDA5
040200 ZEq =(X-60)*.75,TH|0|0|0|0|
040203 XOutType =0x4
040304 YOutType =0x4
040230 RangeLow =0.0000
040240 RangeHigh =255.0000
040300 Rows =0x6
040305 Cols =0x10
040310 PopByCol =0x1
040320 XUnits =""
040325 YUnits ="RPM"
040330 ZUnits =""
040350 XLabels =92,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
040352 XLabelType =0x4
040354 XEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040360 YLabels =680,880,1120,1320,1600,2000
040362 YLabelType =0x4
040364 YEq =X,TH|0|0|0|0|
040660 XAxisMin =1000.000000
040670 XAxisMax =1000.000000
040760 YAxisMin =1000.000000
040770 YAxisMax =1000.000000
%%END%%

I wish I knew what that meant, and how it could help me.

dredder just gave me a warm and fuzzy. He is a nice guy who is willing to share. :)

Thats where the editor would come in :)

Being that what the chiptuners are doing is illegal on more than one level.....


It is illegal to modify the emissions system of any vehicle...just because you change it so that its not obvious doesn't mean you didn't break the law. Even if the car runs just as clean as before etc etc.

The last thing anyone should be concerned about is legal action from a tuner for hacking their tune. There are so many legal issues to get through before you could go after the end user.

What about a group buying a known DME editor and just sharing it, or loaning it out for fee?

Being that what the chiptuners are doing is illegal on more than one level.....


It is illegal to modify the emissions system of any vehicle...just because you change it so that its not obvious doesn't mean you didn't break the law. Even if the car runs just as clean as before etc etc.

That's a good point which seldom gets raised. If you chiptune the ECU you did just tamper with emissions devices, which a lot of people don't consider. Yes you can make it pass emissions, but it isn't approved any longer and would have to undergo re-certification. But yeah basically you are breaking the low and you're just sneaking past because no one can tell. Good point.

dredder just gave me a warm and fuzzy. He is a nice guy who is willing to share. :)

I beleive I fail to fixed the load vs rpm label. I dont have the time to calculate the bins.

I beleive I fail to fixed the load vs rpm label. I dont have the time to calculate the bins.
So...you gave some great information and I think you are a cool guy for doing it. :)
The last thing anyone should be concerned about is legal action from a tuner for hacking their tune. There are so many legal issues to get through before you could go after the end user.

What about a group buying a known DME editor and just sharing it, or loaning it out for fee?
Nice point! And if the software could somehow be set up so you can rent it for a fee for so many days. Sort of like when you download free software for a 30-day trial and it counts down the days, except in this case it isn't a free trial...it is a paid trial. Then the owners of the DME Editor would get rich! Insert the word "incentive" here and "motication" here.

I would invest in the editor to rent it out.

Is this like anything we are talking about?

http://www.atlllc.com/atlantis.php?page=Motronic%20Editor

Dredder - props man!

markesq - You'd be looking at $2-3k minimum and I don't even know if they'd include all the constants and maps one would want/need.

That seems to be a minimum investment. I think I could get 10-20 people willing to rent for $200.

That seems to be a minimum investment. I think I could get 10-20 people willing to rent for $200.
I told you man. Renting it out will add up! It's like a porn site! :eyecrazy Next thing you know you'll be driving your Veyron to work. Hint - Jim Conforti - Mike McCoy - Nick G. - hint.

I told you man. Renting it out will add up! It's like a porn site! :eyecrazy Next thing you know you'll be driving your Veyron to work. Hint - Jim Conforti - Mike McCoy - Nick G. - hint.

I think if Mike were a multi-millionaire - I think he'd still drive an E36 covered with brake dust ;)

Where do I buy it?

Will the GT1 work?

Anyone check out the link I posted?

I told you man. Renting it out will add up! It's like a porn site! :eyecrazy Next thing you know you'll be driving your Veyron to work. Hint - Jim Conforti - Mike McCoy - Nick G. - hint.
bmw community is not a big market. look at how many hpf kit sold.

Where do I buy it?

Will the GT1 work?

Anyone check out the link I posted?

only if i had a gt1 :shifty

Would that work?

Where do I buy it?

Will the GT1 work?

Anyone check out the link I posted?

There's a couple systems out there - winols, swiftec, Dimsport race, OptiCan and probably some more.

I'd look into what Swiftec offers for maps/constants and go from there.

I think if Mike were a multi-millionaire - I think he'd still drive an E36 covered with brake dust ;)I've known several multi-millionaires that drove rusty pick-ups and beat-up Detroit iron.

For around 2000$ you could have a nice Autronic SM4.

The motronic editor aka motronic911 has become a pay software. It is Porsche specific and only works on a few years. The guy who wrote the program was on this board for a short while. It has less functionality than tunerpro and doesn't really offer anything of value at this point.

Where do you buy it?

I beleive I fail to fixed the load vs rpm label. I dont have the time to calculate the bins.

I opened up the edited xdf you posted on the last page. I think you are right about the load and rpm labes getting messed up. It looks like you cleaned up the map list in the bottom left, but the row and column headers definitely took a beating.

http://kai.caltech.edu/413DME/stock413-dredder.xdf

bmw community is not a big market. look at how many hpf kit sold.
Very different product for very different price range.
I think if Mike were a multi-millionaire - I think he'd still drive an E36 covered with brake dust ;)
That is cool. A true enthusiast.
I've known several multi-millionaires that drove rusty pick-ups and beat-up Detroit iron.
I never understood that. Then what is the point of all the hard work? I work so I can some day not work and so I can live comfortably enjoying things like nice cars.
The motronic editor aka motronic911 has become a pay software. It is Porsche specific and only works on a few years. The guy who wrote the program was on this board for a short while. It has less functionality than tunerpro and doesn't really offer anything of value at this point.
The guy is a stud. A DME Editor for rental would help the guy get paid and if people can use it then it helps the community too.

I beleive I fail to fixed the load vs rpm label. I dont have the time to calculate the bins.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you were trying to fix. Were you trying to change the RPM to the x axis and the Load to the y-axis of the table? Or did you do something else? I see that the values are different but it looks like you just change the numbers for the rows to 12 and the columns to 16. Can you explain what you did and I will try to fix the formatting.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you were trying to fix. Were you trying to change the RPM to the x axis and the Load to the y-axis of the table? Or did you do something else? I see that the values are different but it looks like you just change the numbers for the rows to 12 and the columns to 16. Can you explain what you did and I will try to fix the formatting.
Some maps had wrong location and orientation. Theres a formula for shifting load point, rpm. etc.. I dont havethe time to do that. The value are different becuase they were incorrect map location. You could have change a value thinking it was the right one and your engine would have kabooom...Now you have everything to tune for n/a



note: this bin is 413 non-ews 17lbs inj, 0 261 200 413 / 261 267 357 = ecu number and software version

The guy is a stud.The stud only made one post.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7208615&postcount=281

Hi all, I developed a piece of software, exactly what has been described on this thread, several years back for designing Porsche EPROMS. Since I only had a couple of complete specs, I designed the software to be user-extensible and really support any (mid-year) Motronic ECU. It was a hobby project for many years and received the support-neglect such projects are generally entitled to but I brought it commercial last year. It is available at:

atlllc.com

Please feel free to download the trial and see if it works for you.

Extending support is a case of just punching in the relevant offsets and saving a new .SPC file, or alternatively, new .spc files can be created by hand, they are just text files (.ini style).

The program is primarily a graphical map editor, but also has a page for finding "possible" maps and locations. Also, since some ROMS seem to contain addresses at the beginning of the ROM which point to the offset address of a particular map (indirect addressing), there are two ways of creating spc files, direct addressing and indirect addressing. I suggest you start with direct addressing and then see if your ROM uses indirect addressing later...

I am looking to add new support and features so email me with feature requests or questions and I'll do my best to implement/answer them.

Wish I knew about this thread a ways back, I think there is probably a lot of good input from the BMW crowd!

bmw community is not a big market. look at how many hpf kit sold.
look how much it costs. maybe not all m3 owners are ballin' like we think;)

That's a good point which seldom gets raised. If you chiptune the ECU you did just tamper with emissions devices, which a lot of people don't consider. Yes you can make it pass emissions, but it isn't approved any longer and would have to undergo re-certification. But yeah basically you are breaking the low and you're just sneaking past because no one can tell. Good point.

...but the very, very simple way around this is to sell "off-road use only" products. That's what everybody does. The DME hackers are not breaking the law. The people driving the hacked DMEs on public routes are.

But maybe Ted Kennedy would beg to differ.

But maybe Ted Kennedy would beg to differ.Bobby, Jr. is the environmentalist.
Ted's legal driving record is not so clean, but he certainly knows about "off-road use".

Some maps had wrong location and orientation. Theres a formula for shifting load point, rpm. etc.. I dont havethe time to do that. The value are different becuase they were incorrect map location. You could have change a value thinking it was the right one and your engine would have kabooom...Now you have everything to tune for n/a



note: this bin is 413 non-ews 17lbs inj, 0 261 200 413 / 261 267 357 = ecu number and software version

Alright - I caught the address error. Thanks for pointing that out. It wouldn't cause "kaboom". It just wouldn't have run because it would have overwritten the table's header information.
The new version I put up on roborescue has a new .xdf with the axis reversed so that RPM is on the x-axis and what I think are load are on the Y-axis. After comparing the Partial Throttle ignition tables to some bob found in a book of his, I think that one is at least in the right ball park. Still don't know what the units for the fuel map are though.

(I still can't post links so refer to the following post...)
Tuner Pro XDF

~94'ish (not 100% sure) 325is Bin (not EWS)

Thanks to Techno for the bin!

So the link is still the same, it's just the .xdf you are downloading has been updated as described above.

http://roborescue.caltech.edu/stock413.xdf

Bobby, Jr. is the environmentalist.
Ted's legal driving record is not so clean, but he certainly knows about "off-road use".

I meant in the sense that "people don't kill people; guns kill people." Or in other words, the people that sell the tunes are as at fault (or more at fault) than the people who drive with them on public roads.

how did we get to NTSC video feeds?

This reminds me of my Directv days.

Would it help if someone took a tuned chip and compared it to a stock chip?

Maybe download the .bin file from each.
it would help ID the maps, rev limiter, speed limiter, and check sums. you would have to take both bin files (stock, After market) and run a differance on them, then understand what those differance mean (map values, loads, RPM's, voltages, etc)

I wish I knew what that meant, and how it could help me.
start decoding the Bin file. find the opp codes from Intel and use the documentation from Intel on how the CPU works and start going line by line



dredder just gave me a warm and fuzzy. He is a nice guy who is willing to share. :)
he shared but, do you know how to use it, or what it means?

instead of just asking for a editor, you might have better luck taking a stab at it, do some reading, taking another stab at it, ask a question, take another stab at it with your new knowledge, ask a question, do some reading......etc until you figure it out, when you do you will have a far better understanding of whats going on and how to do it

just my .02






I meant in the sense that "people don't kill people; guns kill people." Or in other words, the people that sell the tunes are as at fault (or more at fault) than the people who drive with them on public roads.:confused:shifty

other way around, no one forced you to buy the tune or use it on the road

Alright - I caught the address error. Thanks for pointing that out. It wouldn't cause "kaboom". It just wouldn't have run because it would have overwritten the table's header information.
The new version I put up on roborescue has a new .xdf with the axis reversed so that RPM is on the x-axis and what I think are load are on the Y-axis. After comparing the Partial Throttle ignition tables to some bob found in a book of his, I think that one is at least in the right ball park. Still don't know what the units for the fuel map are though.

(I still can't post links so refer to the following post...)

Who is this kid? :rolleyes

Stop polluting this thread. Again you are providing wrong information. Stop it. Your timing WOT (VA/VR) is wrong. Its 16 x 6 map not 12 x6


Lets concentrate with WOT VA.

Lets start with ED8B (d0) whats after that? 10 correct? 10 equals 16. Now count 16 places (equals RPM point). Whats after that (d5) followed by (06). That means its 6 (equals load point). So we get 16 x 6 (rpm vs load). At EDA5 is where your timing map values resides.

Now erase your XDF so you dont blow peoples car.


edit:
It wouldn't cause "kaboom". It just wouldn't have run because it would have overwritten the table's header information.
:nono :help Its more than just the header bud! Your talking about shifting your load point with unknown RPM with unknown timing. I let you answer what happens to your engine, especially at WOT:thinkerg

:confused:shifty

other way around, no one forced you to buy the tune or use it on the road

Pay attention. The thread is getting long, so I guess you have an excuse. I was making a joke about Ted Kennedy.

This thread has changed and is now more like the 413 tuning thread. I suggest that any further dicussions about creating xdf's continue in the 413 tuning thread. As for the creation of an editor outside of Tunerpro of WinOLS, my arms are tired and the horse hasn'd moved.

Who is this kid?

Stop polluting this thread. Again you are providing wrong information. Stop
it. Your timing WOT (VA/VR) is wrong. Its 16 x 6 map not 12 x6



Congratulation's - you found a typo - U win a prize.

Second - at least I'm trying to help. You are absolute correct that my information is not 100% correct - Its not suppose to be. I started playing with this last weekend. I never guaranteed any of the information I posted and I specifically said that I was looking for feedback. So if your done with your little power trip, can the big boys get back to trying to fix things without being hampered by your juvenile jabs for attention.
Thanks for pointing out the error though. I do appreciate your peer review.
~A

he shared but, do you know how to use it, or what it means?
No sir I can't say that I do.
instead of just asking for a editor, you might have better luck taking a stab at it, do some reading, taking another stab at it, ask a question, take another stab at it with your new knowledge, ask a question, do some reading......etc until you figure it out, when you do you will have a far better understanding of whats going on and how to do it

just my .02
Thanks for your .02. I will go spend that time making a bunch of sales for a bunch of money instead. Somebody else living in a basement with no rent, no girlfriend and a lot of time should do it for us. :)

Pay attention. The thread is getting long, so I guess you have an excuse. I was making a joke about Ted Kennedy.
yes its getting long, i think Ted kenned's rain of terror was before my time, i was 13 the last time he was elected in 2000

No sir I can't say that I do.

what good does a editor do you if you dont know what the values in the table mean.

Thanks for your .02. I will go spend that time making a bunch of sales for a bunch of money instead. Somebody else living in a basement with no rent, no girlfriend and a lot of time should do it for us. :)
if your trying to imply that about me you are wrong my friend. i have a job, pay rent, full time college student, and a hot GF. i still find time to work on decoding the bin files;)

what good does a editor do you if you dont know what the values in the table mean.
I was talking about the alphabet/numerical soup dredder posted. Have no idea what that said but that is not an editor. The Editor in my mind would plug into the OBDI or OBDII DME and automatically pull all the code giving you all the choices of a standalone. Software like the AEM EMS except a lot more part throttle maps and such is what I was thinking. I already know how to fill cells with ignition timing and fuel. That is easy and what i thought we were talking about.

if your trying to imply that about me you are wrong my friend. i have a job, pay rent, full time college student, and a hot GF. i still find time to work on decoding the bin files;)
Oh not at all. Sorry if it sounded that way. I was just exagerating about the type of person that might have enough time to do such a thing. However, if someone is extremely smart and can write software and decode in their sleep, then sure a busy guy with a hot girlfriend could do it. All I know is that nobody has done it so it must not be that easy to do. The type of software program I mentioned above anyway. :dunno

I was talking about the alphabet/numerical soup dredder posted. Have no idea what that said but that is not an editor. The Editor in my mind would plug into the OBDI or OBDII DME and automatically pull all the code giving you all the choices of a standalone. Software like the AEM EMS except a lot more part throttle maps and such is what I was thinking. I already know how to fill cells with ignition timing and fuel. That is easy and what i thought we were talking about.

were do you plug in to a OBD1, as far as i know you have to reflash the Eprom every time you want new code. so there is no nice easy way to plug in and use home brewed software. the 27c256 and 27c512 need to be erased using UV light before a flash can me made. the ECU is a Eprom based ECU, new ECU's are nand flash based so you can write over them over and over easier the eprom systems

the 27c256 and 27c512 need to be erased using UV light before a flash can me made

false.
most cars use the same chips btw.

if your trying to imply that about me you are wrong my friend. i have a job, pay rent, full time college student, and a hot GF. i still find time to work on decoding the bin files;)

Cam's point is that his return on time spent figuring out bin files is minute compared with the return if he spends his time working.

That is why he and other's (like me) would like to see an easy to use editor.

Appears to me its not happening.

were do you plug in to a OBD1, as far as i know you have to reflash the Eprom every time you want new code. so there is no nice easy way to plug in and use home brewed software. the 27c256 and 27c512 need to be erased using UV light before a flash can me made. the ECU is a Eprom based ECU, new ECU's are nand flash based so you can write over them over and over easier the eprom systems
Well it doesn't matter how the information is loaded whether it is a chip or whatever. I am talking about a software program that looks like the AEM EMS or any other nice standalone software. You still use a base bin file or you can start from scratch. Just saying the software itself should be easy enough to plug in what you want, burn the chip, flash the DME, whatever, test it on the dyno, repeat. If the wideband table says we are lean here or rich there according to the desired AFR map that was inputed, then those changes are made either manually or automatically, burn the new chip, reflash the DME, whatever, test on dyno, repeat. The software...make it dumbass proof is sort of what I am getting at is the main point that should be taken from this lecture here. :)
Cam's point is that his return on time spent figuring out bin files is minute compared with the return if he spends his time working.

That is why he and other's (like me) would like to see an easy to use editor.

Appears to me its not happening.
Exactamundo. Thanks! :)

false.
most cars use the same chips btw.

Incorrect... 27c512 chips DO need to be UV'd to be erased.

Incorrect... 27c512 chips DO need to be UV'd to be erased.
as well as a 27c256

a 27SF256 chips do not need uv light

as well as a 27c256

a 27SF256 chips do not need uv light

Yes sir, you are correct. :thumbup:

Thanks for your .02. I will go spend that time making a bunch of sales for a bunch of money instead. Somebody else living in a basement with no rent, no girlfriend and a lot of time should do it for us. :)

What a terrible statement. Just because you "have a job" and you "make money with this job" doesn't mean that others don't do the same. You are really starting to come off as a douchebag.

Thanks for your .02. I will go spend that time making a bunch of sales for a bunch of money instead. Somebody else living in a basement with no rent, no girlfriend and a lot of time should do it for us. :)You just described some of the best people I've ever known. Some of the worst have been salesmen. :stickoutt

You just described some of the best people I've ever known. Some of the worst have been salesmen. :stickoutt
I will have to agree with you. I don't belong in my business but I do okay at it so I just stick with it. The slippery slimey shady folk that are on the other end of my deals sometimes...OMG!:comp::bigun2

Some of the best friends I ever had didn't even own a car. :lol I am not snooty I'll tell you that. If your personality is cool, then you are my bro. :thumbup:

I knew you meant it as a sign of respect :)

When will the BMW community lose this love affair with chip tunes, I just do not get it.