Quick Specs on the build, also can be found at www.jaffster.com :
Car: 2002 M3 Chassis
Engine: M52 2.8L w/ custom bottom mount turbo, side exhaust, AEM engine management
Suspension: Ohlins Ext Res Double Adj. Jaffster rear control arms. RRT trailing arm bearing cups.
Chassis: Jaffster Cage
Braking: Rotora 4 piston front/rear, PFC Direct Drive rotors, Bosch Motorsport ABS M4, tilton 3 pedal floor mount assembly
Interior: Sabelt Taurus Seat, Sparco wheel
Steering: MB Electricl steering pump, Woodward custom steering column, BMW Motorsport (modified) tie rod kit.
Drivetrain: 6spd M3 drivetrain, Diffsonline 3.62 REm 30/90 3 clutch race diff, Jaffster shifter assembly.
Aero/Body: Carbon GTR Hood, Carbon Roof, Carbon trunk skin, carbon doors, Lexan windows, Jaffster end plate mounted rear wing, Jaffster splitter/diffuser/undertrays. Modified stock front fenders, stock front/rear bumpers.
Wheels/tires: Enkei Nt03+M 18x10 front and rear, Yok 280/650/18

Project started in late 2006, 2007 it was on hiatus due to lack of garage, and its now back in full swing in its new home! Here is a quick recap (some stuff not included though) from start to present day.

4x4 mode after ~1000lbs was removed from car:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/6-4-06/main/p6030002.jpg

Side Exh begins:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/6-10-06/main/p6090002.jpg

Side exh is roughed in:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/7-22-06/main/tunnel6.jpg

Fuel Cel craddle is constructed:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/8-16-06/main/p8150002.jpg

Modified stock front fenders with vents:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/8-24-06/main/p8230004.jpg

Woodward custom steering column and Ujoint assembly:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/9-27-06/P92600042.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/9-28-06/main/p9270001.jpg

Seat mount (to be integrated into cage as well):

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/9-8-06/main/p9070001.jpg

Side Exh finished (primed to prevent rust):

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/10-1-06/main/p9300003.jpg

Comparison of a quick clean to stock dirtyness:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/10-1-06/main/p9300002.jpg

All clean! (almost anyways)

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/10-2-06/main/pa010004.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/10-2-06/main/pa010003.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/10-2-06/main/pa010005.jpg

Motorsport tie rod kit (S54 is gone):

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/12-5-06/main/pc030001.jpg

Rear brake package:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/12-5-06/main/pc040006.jpg

Front wheel/brake package:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/12-8-06/main/pc070012.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/12-8-06/main/pc070017.jpg

Cockpit mockup with pedal assembly:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/12-8-06/main/pc070029.jpg

Finished Cell cradle (minus one sheet metal peice underneath)

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/celldone.jpg

Jaffster Rear suspension (adjustable roll center):

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/2-15-07/main/p2140001.jpg

Jaffster Shifter "relocation" assembly test fit:

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/shiftertestfit.jpg

Very nice, cant wait to see the rest of this. Nice work!

What method did you use to remove the "dirty crap" that was left from tar removal?

Why is this listed as "thumbs down?" Just curious.....

Where did the tie rod setup come from?

Very nice, cant wait to see the rest of this. Nice work!

What method did you use to remove the "dirty crap" that was left from tar removal?

Join the club - I can't wait either! :stickoutt

I wore a respirator, and sprayed a mist of mineral spirit based adhesive remover. Used a good brush and I did the entire car in under 3 hours. In person its even cleaner after I did a final wipe down. The real thick stuff I'm going take a wire wheel too for when i seam weld. For which, by the way, i just ordered my rotisserie :)

Why is this listed as "thumbs down?" Just curious.....

Fixed...I must have pressed tab by accident.

Where did the tie rod setup come from?
BMW Motorsports. I think they still have something like it available from the E46 WTCC cars, but i bought 3 leftover sets from Turner (thanks again). I'm actually going to be modifying them though. I might use difference rod ends and different rods, because these are some funky rod end sizes. I'll also be beefing up the tie rod slightly, as I've heard they can bend a little prematurely in some cases, and thats not necassairly a bad thing - I just have to decide which direction i want to go, small stuff.

Big thanks to the sponsors helping me out...if only I had a garage 07, this thing would be on the track by now!
Sponsors: http://www.jaffster.com/?page_id=38

Oh yea :)

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/sOhlins.jpg

hurry up! :stickoutt
Rear suspension looks like it's gonna be trick!

Fixed...I must have pressed tab by accident.



Me fix. Hope you don't mind.

Jay

Me fix. Hope you don't mind.

Jay

I fixed it before, thanks though.

hurry up! :stickoutt
Rear suspension looks like it's gonna be trick!

I was planning on doing a tube frame rear end, eliminating the rear subframe. After some careful analysis, and compromising, I decided to modify the stock subframe very slightly and adapt my suspension into it. It will make repairs a lot easier, and the car more "modular." Plus, its less work and will let me get on the track sooner :)

Now if I could only track down the GTR trailing arms that won't cost me $5000....stock will do just fine though.

I fixed it before, thanks though.



I know you thought you did but you didn't. It seems only a mod can edit a thread title, which includes the title icon. Not sure why but that's the way it works.

Jay

Ah, yea its like the title...only mod. Thanks!

Here is part of the project as well. 3D model of M3 for CFD analysis, hopefully will have some data this coming week. I'm working on getting some wind tunnel data to correlate with, and then once the car is done, correlate with real data.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/3de46m3.jpg

Hey Steve, what are you using to plug up the sunroof?

Hey Steve, what are you using to plug up the sunroof?

Something tells me the carbon roof he's buying won't be the one with the sunroof in it.

Ding ding :) CSL style carbon roof...it beter not have a sunroof lol :stickoutt

Steve, awesome amount of fabrication! Looks great. Can't wait to see this car in action:buttrock
Will you be ready for VIR in April?

Thanks, but fabrication hs barely begun :) These are all just small projects. Cage is where the time will be spent.

No way it'll be done for April. Maybe July. This year a lot of stuff is getting in the way of letting me get it done, but I'm trying to get a lot of testing done this year, at the least. The engine is fairly simple too, so that helps. Other than electronics (and the engine which is 3-4 weeks from being here, minus turbo components), I have all the components to build the car (minus small stuff like window net, fire bottle, etc).

I can start seam welding in a couple weeks once the rotisserie gets here...plus I have to order that new millermatic 212 mig welder.

Lots of small fabrication spots are left, I am working on the wing mounts this week. I'm about 25% there, design is done though.

I might post pics of that, but we'll see. I will say its very batmobile-esk. It looks like the Maserati Trofeo GT from Rolex :) Euro Superstar series also has some 5 series with almost an identical setup. I'm starting with a single element, and at a later time will be adding a second element...just too much going on to have to worry about that now. Element design I went with lends itself to adding a flap very well. Plus, if the single element works well, saved me $1k and some time.

No way it'll be done for April. Maybe July.

2008? (ducks)

Kidding....looking forward to seeing it progress, Steve!

Trying for 2008. :)

2007 flew by without having a garage to work on it...depressing.

I'm not even 25 yet, so I have some things in life taking priority, but its a PROJECT, i'm not a pro team trying to make a debut season. Whenever it gets done, it gets done. I enjoy the design/building process. I'd rather spend more time getting a "simpler" design than just ending up with a more complex design with compromises.

But, i'm getting antsy to get back on track in a BMW. 2005 I had my E36 out a couple times, but I sold it to get the E46 going. 06 I was busy with work and was not on track at all. 07 I had some of my dads toys, and I'll prob run them this year too, as I'm doing ohlins on one of them and will need to 'test' them :)

Good luck Steve!! Get it on track bud!

Thanks.

I'm actually trying to remove some stuff from the project that can be done easily at a later time (Carbon doors for example). It'll allow the funds to be used for stuff thats required to get the car on track and testing, and easily swappable in the near future. As of now I think i'm good to go with all the necessities that would be a bitch to do at a later time. The car will have so much potential, I just want it reliable when it really comes down to it. All the fabrication projects are to have fun and make the car for me :)

Another thing is the two element wing. Saves me $1k, and i'm configuring the wing so I could add the flap at a later time.

Motor is staying very simple for now, I'll see how the turbo route goes, can always change it in the future, have a full motor built and then just swap the turbo system over.

Are you going to weld in an aluminum panel in place of the rear bulkhead?

Are you going to weld in an aluminum panel in place of the rear bulkhead?

Huh? Unless there is a new AlumaSteel filler rod, no. :confused

I'll just bolt in a thin carbon shear panel.

AlumaSteel filler rod

:lol For some reason that just cracked me up!

Good luck with the build Steve, I enjoy watching it!
-Ted

steve, it is about that time to deal with the cage. you know everyone will be gunning for you when the design comes out. it had better live up to the hype.

Huh? Unless there is a new AlumaSteel filler rod, no. :confused

I'll just bolt in a thin carbon shear panel.

:nono
12. LKHEAD - A sealed metal bulkhead between the passenger
REAR BU
compartment and the compartment containing the fuel tank is required on
cars using a fuel cell or where the fuel tank is not totally under the car floor
(i.e., is required in 1600/2002 models). A bulkhead is highly recommended
on cars where the fuel tank is under the body (i.e., E36).

NASA folks got a little testy when I asked about using CF for that. NASA and SCCA specifically require metal too. Just a note.

Huh? Unless there is a new AlumaSteel filler rod, no. :confused


Well there is brazing... :stickoutt

-Carlos.

Gee Carlos, and I figured you for a JB Weld kind of guy.

James Posig
JMT TrackCars
#231 GTS 2 (for sale with trailer and spares)

Yes James - we have designed a new 'racing' bulkhead sealer panel!

The panel is made of 100% formed JB weld, with bondo to smooth out the corners... It only weighs 162 lbs but holds itself in place. :)

I want to see pics of the wing :D. Whats your daily driver steve?

Gee Carlos, and I figured you for a JB Weld kind of guy.


Super glue baby!! :buttrock

-Carlos.

hey, that e-brake handle is extra weight. ;) just kidding.

can't wait to see your car finished. it's going to be awesome

Ebrake system has been off for a couple weeks now that it is done being moved around...plus its going on this once it arrives:

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/photos/TPPRO-ROTI-2.jpg


Daily driver is wrx wagon.

Wing pics will be posted once I get the element(s) in. I'm waiting to hear back from the composite guy on his schedule.

steve, it is about that time to deal with the cage. you know everyone will be gunning for you when the design comes out. it had better live up to the hype.

What hype? I have not posted anything about it other than some A pillar ideas. I know all the guys with too much free time are going to be using their sophisticated windows paint programs to modify pictures of the cage, so I might just wait a while after its all done to post pics. 13 months off of welding though, I need to get back on the ball with that stuff.

:nono
12. LKHEAD - A sealed metal bulkhead between the passenger
REAR BU
compartment and the compartment containing the fuel tank is required on
cars using a fuel cell or where the fuel tank is not totally under the car floor
(i.e., is required in 1600/2002 models). A bulkhead is highly recommended
on cars where the fuel tank is under the body (i.e., E36).

NASA folks got a little testy when I asked about using CF for that. NASA and SCCA specifically require metal too. Just a note.

A carbon shear panel will be plenty! If they want i'll structural adhere a piece of .020 aluminum to the back side :) Its not 'carbon panel,' it'll be a carbon shear panel (honeycomb core). Maybe even toss a layer of carbon-kevlar in there for some extra impact strength. Its easy enough to make one out of Aluminum though, roll some nice ribs into it (maybe in a bmw pattern :)).

Ebrake system has been off for a couple weeks now that it is done being moved around...plus its going on this once it arrives:

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/photos/TPPRO-ROTI-2.jpg


Daily driver is wrx wagon.

Wing pics will be posted once I get the element(s) in. I'm waiting to hear back from the composite guy on his schedule.

That's a little more high-tech looking than the one I made!:D

Yea, that roto is sweet. Great for a one man shop I bet Steve. I built mine also. Cost me all of $0.00. ;)

What hype? I have not posted anything about it other than some A pillar ideas. I know all the guys with too much free time are going to be using their sophisticated windows paint programs to modify pictures of the cage, so I might just wait a while after its all done to post pics. 13 months off of welding though, I need to get back on the ball with that stuff.



A carbon shear panel will be plenty! If they want i'll structural adhere a piece of .020 aluminum to the back side :) Its not 'carbon panel,' it'll be a carbon shear panel (honeycomb core). Maybe even toss a layer of carbon-kevlar in there for some extra impact strength. Its easy enough to make one out of Aluminum though, roll some nice ribs into it (maybe in a bmw pattern :)).

Doesn't sound like they are worried about structural piece but a fire barrier. Carbon isn't a fire barrier, resin tends to burn pretty good.

Ebrake system has been off for a couple weeks now that it is done being moved around...plus its going on this once it arrives:

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/photos/TPPRO-ROTI-2.jpg


Daily driver is wrx wagon.

Wing pics will be posted once I get the element(s) in. I'm waiting to hear back from the composite guy on his schedule.


Where did you source this from?

A carbon shear panel will be plenty! If they want i'll structural adhere a piece of .020 aluminum to the back side :) Its not 'carbon panel,' it'll be a carbon shear panel (honeycomb core). Maybe even toss a layer of carbon-kevlar in there for some extra impact strength. Its easy enough to make one out of Aluminum though, roll some nice ribs into it (maybe in a bmw pattern :)).

I agree that CF is completely appropriate for the application, but rules is rules. It's a safety item, so you wont make it through your annual tech.

It'll be fine. Rules are meant to evolve. :) I'm going to try and help bring some affordable solutions (or even just ideas) into clubracing with this project that have only been used/proven in professional racing applications. Safety is the one place that no matter if you are pro or grassroots, it works the same. Just using misc devices that are proven in different venues/applications doesn't make sense to me.

As for the Rotisserie, check the pictures URL for your answer ;)

OnaSled, where did you source free steel from? Unless you stole it from someone elses shop, you paid for it in one way or another. Plus the 10-20hours you probably spent making it, I made up for in time saved. Does yours have a CG balancer and Hydraulics? This costs $895 btw, assembled, casters, powderacoted, hydraulics...plus i can sell it knowing people will pay for a professionally built product, not something i made myself that i can't get replacement parts for quickly :) I bought it with the intention of selling it once I am done.

Curious as to why you used square tubing for parts and then on other stuff you used died sheetmetal? Why not use the sheetmetal for everything or atleast with round tubing? Looks cleaner imo.

Curious as to why you used square tubing for parts and then on other stuff you used died sheetmetal? Why not use the sheetmetal for everything or atleast with round tubing? Looks cleaner imo.

Can you be more specific?

Doesn't sound like they are worried about structural piece but a fire barrier. Carbon isn't a fire barrier, resin tends to burn pretty good.

Not the composite I was looking to use :)

I'll see when the time comes, thats several months away. I might just make a quick alum template to use for the time being and to get it out there testing. Not something I'm going to spend much thought on to be honest. I don't see any material thickness specified in the rules for the bulkhead though, so I could prob use a very thin sheet of alum?

A
Finished Cell cradle (minus one sheet metal peice underneath)

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/celldone.jpg



Well for instance in this picture, why not run some tabs off the floor area and use tank straps (bent flat strap would work)? Sorta of inverted to hows it's shown in the pic below. The surrounding sheetmetal looks good but the angle iron is ugly. Looking at your tank again it's a bit different design then I was thinking it was. This is an example of a pretty clean fuel cell install. It's a custom made unit though.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/Roktgr/Fuelcellandsystem009.jpg

Also with the seat support and piece of round tubing with tabs would look cleaner and probably be lighter too.

As for the rules on the rear bulkhead, I'm not super familiar with your rules but we have similar rules for our baja racing. It's comes down to a couple things for use, most composite sheets are not fire resistant, and if they are it is hard to prove that they are and that it's what your running. Metal on the other hand is pretty easy to determine if it's metal and the fire resistance is pretty well known. With our rule set they don't list a minimum thickness either so we run as thin as we can and still rivet it to the firewall, I think it's 0.035 or 0.020" thick aluminum.

I'll see when the time comes, thats several months away. I might just make a quick alum template to use for the time being and to get it out there testing. Not something I'm going to spend much thought on to be honest. I don't see any material thickness specified in the rules for the bulkhead though, so I could prob use a very thin sheet of alum?

I've already been through this with my build, we ended up going with a thicker piece of aluminum than what was required.

NHRA specifies 0.032" thick aluminum to be used as bulkhead material, I went with 0.045". I'm quoting NHRA, because that's what most sanctioning bodies in my area refer to if there's ever any grey areas. (The MPH is usually greater, thus the mechanism of injury higher)

Yes, there is suitable CF sheeting that can be used, but most people aren't going to fork out the $800+ for a 4' by 4' sheet. (Minimum order)

......
As for the Rotisserie, check the pictures URL for your answer ;)

OnaSled, where did you source free steel from? Unless you stole it from someone elses shop, you paid for it in one way or another. Plus the 10-20hours you probably spent making it, I made up for in time saved. Does yours have a CG balancer and Hydraulics? This costs $895 btw, assembled, casters, powderacoted, hydraulics...plus i can sell it knowing people will pay for a professionally built product, not something i made myself that i can't get replacement parts for quickly :) I bought it with the intention of selling it once I am done.

Steve, wasn't busting on your roto, ... I really DO love it and wished I had one that was so adjustable. Mine was a bare bones that needed a lot of muscle to rotate the car. The metal was in fact all given to me and my buddy and I built it in a day or two. I did buy the wheels so I guess I did lie.. ;) ... a little

Next time i'm building a Baja Buggy I'll call you :) For this project, I think I'm fine thanks.

The composite I was thinking to use I have personally held a 2500 degree open flame to and it not only did not ignite, but the other side of the material was only about 70 degrees 1/2" away...not your ordinary stuff ;) Oh yea, plus its structural!

You also should have figured out by now...I'm not most people lol

I know all the guys with too much free time are going to be using their sophisticated windows paint programs to modify pictures of the cage...

Pot meet kettle :rolleyes

Steve,

I have the same roto you just got, it works really good for what it costs. Best part is it takes very little effort to spin the car, and of course makes working under the car much easier.:)

-Rick

Awesome! Glad to hear! For $1085 SHIPPED to my door, on a liftgate, includes hydraulics, powder coat, unibody brackets, etc...its a steal!

Plus, I'm going to be selling it shortly after this project most likely, so its definitely worth it.

I'm going to be ordering the Millermatic 212 soon as well, so when the rotisserie gets here I can crank away on it.

wow ........... I found it the Jaffster cage!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/LoN3R/n12/21.jpg



I Kid, I kid............we all can't wait to see you cage !


Keep up the amazing work!

:lol LOL

What the hell?

Man, thats old skool, I remember when that first showed up years ago...its amazing the amount of effort some people put into such crap lol

Wow, is that really a chrome bolt in cage? That's simply amazing. If they'd only anodized it in various colors, it really would be 'teh jaffscage'

best part about it, its 100% bolted in.

Wow - they really put a lot of work into the load paths. Although I am sure it can be pulled apart over the next few years and redone.

Wow, thats brightly bizzare..

OMG, I know its a showcar obviously, but I hope this is not driven...Look at how the harness is done, scary!

James, I think its "designed" so that they can rearrange the bars to make it look better, and change its appearance lol

Load paths schmoad paths, the tubes get bolted in where they fit best!

The really sad part is I'm sure at shows there are a lot of people going, "Wow, thats sick, I want to make one like that!"

But anyways, back to the Build Thread...I'll hopefully get to work on the car tonight and have updated pics of the shifter...and maybe some sneak peaks of the wing mounts.

I'm waiting for the rotisserie and mig welder before I do the seam welding, and once thats done its onto the cage. Lots of Messy prep work ahead, but assuming I can find the time to work on the car, the seam welding goes pretty quick. I also need to pickup another wire shelving rack for when i break down the rear of the car for mounting on rotisserie.

Steve, .... got good heat in that garage? Friggin A, ... it's cold... :(

Oh hellz yea we do, over 400,00 btu's, 3 zones all independently controlled.

I'm young starting my life/career, its hard to find time/money to build it how I want it to be done.

Oh hellz yea we do, over 400,00 btu's, 3 zones all independently controlled.

:bluecry1

I'm very fortunate to have access to my dad's new "play room"...one day I'll have my own :)

Work hard to play hard.

No violins James? lol

No violins James? lol

LOL - I didn't see one of those.

I'm going to be ordering the Millermatic 212 soon as well, so when the rotisserie gets here I can crank away on it.

That's a bit of overkill for building a cage don't you think? I've been using one of those to build my car set on 2/10ths...it's got some power.

That's a bit of overkill for building a cage don't you think? I've been using one of those to build my car set on 2/10ths...it's got some power.

It's just right. I assume Steve is buying 1 welder to last years. That is something he will need down the road, not just this one project. You can grow into a welder. Plus, if he ever wants to do some aluminum mig welding...just buy a spool gun and go. Welders in the 150-175 will weld aluminum, but your limited.

LOL - I didn't see one of those.

Ah...you need a smilie hookup :violinist

That's a bit of overkill for building a cage don't you think? I've been using one of those to build my car set on 2/10ths...it's got some power.

Overkill, no way. I'm using 1.5x.120, thats some beefy tubing, and it needs some good penetration. Are you sure you are getting enough penetration on 2/10ths? .120 to .120 should require more amps than 2/10ths of that machine....it should need over 140amps for that stuff.

It's just right. I assume Steve is buying 1 welder to last years. That is something he will need down the road, not just this one project. You can grow into a welder. Plus, if he ever wants to do some aluminum mig welding...just buy a spool gun and go. Welders in the 150-175 will weld aluminum, but your limited.

$1400 for the 212 instead of $900 for the 180, its worth it for 500 hundred bucks, especially after what everyone has told me who has used the former 212, compared to the 180, it can do a lot more, and exactly like M3Muscle said, its something I can have for many years, and not have to worry about upgrading.

I just saw the new DVI2 though, that might be a decent alternative. Couple hundred bucks less, and it'll do slightly less max amps, but it says it can do the same material thickness (3/8), instead of the 5/16th the millermatic 180 does.

Thought you were skipping the rotisserie and seam welding it on a two post... why the change? Get a great deal on one or something?

Subscribed.

Basically, yea. I found a place that ships cheap, and has a great quality, well equipped rotisserie, and it has great resale (as I'm going probably going to sell it once i'm done with it). It has hydrualic rams for height adjustment, CG countering, casters, powder coated, and its $1085, with unibody brackets, shipped on a liftgate! Its worth it, because it would be a bitch on the 2 post.

OK, just went outside and did a quick 10min welding session. I did a couple welds on the shifter, and its super solid, I'll probably just run a couple more stitch beads on the sides and call it done, and slap some primer on it so it won't get surface rust.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/Shifter.JPG



And here is a quick wing sneak peak:

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/wingsneakpeak.JPG

Oh hellz yea we do, over 400,00 btu's, 3 zones all independently controlled.

Here is how we red necks heat our garages. Zones shmones. Real men create heat with air compressors and welders! :buttrock Notice how we have heat, cooling and fuel all in one place.

Chris

You should put a fan inside the oven, then you can have two zones :)

No wonder you had to skimp on so much with your e46 build, your electrical bill must have been ridiculous.

You should put a fan inside the oven, then you can have two zones :)

No wonder you had to skimp on so much with your e46 build, your electrical bill must have been ridiculous.

Steve,
You might be an engineer, but that statement shows you are not an electrical engineer. That setup is 100% efficient electric heat. A heat pump would be less efficient, in fact gas heat would be less efficient (maybe cheaper per energy unit) but less efficient.

Enjoy your new digs I am enjoying mine. :)

Chris

OK, just went outside and did a quick 10min welding session. I did a couple welds on the shifter, and its super solid, I'll probably just run a couple more stitch beads on the sides and call it done, and slap some primer on it so it won't get surface rust.


Quick question but if you were on a tight budget which dimple dies (sizes) would you purchase if you were just doing gussets for a cage? And what type of press are you using for yours?

Thanks,
Carlos.

Try the ones from mitler bros punch/dimple all in one,easier to use IMO.

Looking good SteveO; keep the work moving bud.

Chris...it was a joke. :rolleyes

Thanks Matt, slowly but surely...lots of shit going on right in life thats taking priority.

Dimple dies...what kind of budget? 3/4, 1, and 1.5" should cover most things. 2" starts to get big for most cage gussets, and you can always do a couple 3/4" instead.

I am waiting to find a shop press locally, for the time being I made my own for $10 using a steel frame I welded up and a bottle jack :)

Chris...it was a joke. :rolleyes

Thanks Matt, slowly but surely...lots of shit going on right in life thats taking priority.

Dimple dies...what kind of budget? 3/4, 1, and 1.5" should cover most things. 2" starts to get big for most cage gussets, and you can always do a couple 3/4" instead.

I am waiting to find a shop press locally, for the time being I made my own for $10 using a steel frame I welded up and a bottle jack :)

The ones you bought would probably work for me, in an old message you said you got 5 for like $175. Could you provide a link for me (even if the price isn't the same anymore)?
Thanks,
Carlos.

I got them from Vansant (tricktools). Search around on BF, someone else suggested an cheaper place that had them. I would suggest getting the sheet metal hole saws too. It cuts a precise, burr free hole, and is perfect for these dies. Best $500 I spent on tools in a looong time.

I found the hole saws (Jancy Sluggers) on Amazon/Toolfetch for cheaper than Vansant. However, Vansant has a kit that appears to be custom to them of more useful sizes.

I haven't picked up the dimple dies as of yet.

Yea, Toolfetch has great service. I ordered a load leveler for my engine hoist, came quick, great service, great prices.

Vansant has a custom kit they put together with common sizes for the hole saw kit, thats why I got it from them.

Try the ones from mitler bros punch/dimple all in one,easier to use IMO.

Have you used them? What is the max steel thickness they will cut? Mittler Bros/Tanner Racing gave me probably the worst customer service I've ever experienced in my life and I wouldn't trust them with another order ever again - does any one else sell them?

yes I've used them I bought 4 sizes earlier this year. the specs are on the web site but it's like 16 or 18 guage I think. They work great no burrs and all you do is drill a pilot hole then tighten down and it punches and dimples.

-Chris



Have you used them? What is the max steel thickness they will cut? Mittler Bros/Tanner Racing gave me probably the worst customer service I've ever experienced in my life and I wouldn't trust them with another order ever again - does any one else sell them?

I got them from Vansant (tricktools). Search around on BF, someone else suggested an cheaper place that had them. I would suggest getting the sheet metal hole saws too. It cuts a precise, burr free hole, and is perfect for these dies. Best $500 I spent on tools in a looong time.

With the dies do they distort the sheet when you punch the die? I was going to do some forming and in discussing it with a local build shop they said they don't use them much because of this. Wondering if it's a common issue or die quality issue?

Depends on how you press them, the material, and the material thickness. If done within the spec they are designed for, they work perfect, no distortion.

Depends on how you press them, the material, and the material thickness. If done within the spec they are designed for, they work perfect, no distortion.

What material thickness have you been using most? For example on that piece you made to attach the shifter?

Carlos.

Depends on how you press them, the material, and the material thickness. If done within the spec they are designed for, they work perfect, no distortion.


cool thanks.

I've used them on 083, although thats approaching the limit I do, I bet it'll do a tad thicker, but i would be wary of going much thicker, as it might start to screw up the die.

The shifter is 049, with the dimples, and the way its shaped (along the trans tunnel) even with a couple small beads as shown, its super rigid. On thin stuff (025 to 063) it works fantastic, and with this application, you really won't be using anything thicker than 08x anyways.

I've used them on 083, although thats approaching the limit I do, I bet it'll do a tad thicker, but i would be wary of going much thicker, as it might start to screw up the die.

The shifter is 049, with the dimples, and the way its shaped (along the trans tunnel) even with a couple small beads as shown, its super rigid. On thin stuff (025 to 063) it works fantastic, and with this application, you really won't be using anything thicker than 08x anyways.

That would be my range for most stuff, 0.083" 4130 is good for about everything. And that part of the shape of the dimple is to stiffen the sheet up quite a bit.

Pedal mount is finished, I am just waiting for the rotisserie to prepare the underside of the chassis so I can fully weld it in. It has 3 positions for the pedal mounts. The ABS peice is just a mockup test to see how the molded lip feels (so far it feels great).

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/1-29-08/

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/1-29-08/main/p1280015.jpg
http://jaffster.com/E46M3/1-29-08/main/p1280016.jpg
http://jaffster.com/E46M3/1-29-08/main/p1280017.jpg

How much did you have to pay the invisible man to test fit your pedal set?

I know...its kind of freaky now that I look at it.

Thats my secret weapon...shhh! super lightweight driver :)

I found those shoes in my closet, I figure they are old and dirty so they seem perfect for the garage lol

Oh my, is that the transparent stig?

Looking great so far, cannot wait to see the finished project!

what pedals are those? tilton floor mounts? I was looking at those for my car.....how much did you pay and where did you get them?

Tilton 3 Pedal Floor mount 600 Series.

I got them through Evosport, I don't have pricing on hand, but they are priced pretty standardly. You can probably go to HRP and get pricing online, I just sourced them through Evosport.

Granted you seating position is way back, but those pedals seem really far forward, and anything more than a 24" inseam will have your knees against wheel. Maybe the shoe angle is screwing things up for me.

What is the purpose of the hook on the top of the gas pedal? I have seen them on WC cars, but never understood the purpose.

taking a slight guess, but god forbid the pedal got stuck open, you could easily pull it back.

Granted you seating position is way back, but those pedals seem really far forward, and anything more than a 24" inseam will have your knees against wheel. Maybe the shoe angle is screwing things up for me.

What is the purpose of the hook on the top of the gas pedal? I have seen them on WC cars, but never understood the purpose.

Actually, the pedals are not far from the seat at all! I'm slightly vertically challenged (only 5'6" and change) and they feel great. Don't forget the pedals have 3 options, total of 1.5" of movement.

Yes, Jon is right, its if the throttle gets stuck, its a failsafe to pull it back.

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/1-29-08/main/p1280015.jpg

Those appear to be used - did they come with the purchase of your old E36 WC car? :evil2

Thats just dust from sitting in the closet for so long :D

And YOU call being in the closet long enough to collect dust a LONG time? :stickoutt

And YOU call being in the closet long enough to collect dust a LONG time? :stickoutt

:rock:

So Dave is coming out of the closet?

So Dave is coming out of the closet?
nice loaded question ;)

i am 100% heterosexual, thanks for your concern...

Wow, he came out in my thread...I feel so special :stickoutt

Nah, if they came with the E36 WCT they would have been size 13 or something, Sofro is a big dude lol

'07 was a rebuild

and '08 Dave comes out?? :eek::eek:

always something new from Mr. White

i am 100% heterosexual, thanks for your concern...

Its cool. We can all wait until the time is right. This is YOUR life and YOUR choice DAve. Just remember, be true to yourself and we are all behind you.

Its cool. We can all wait until the time is right. This is YOUR life and YOUR choice DAve. Just remember, be true to yourself and we are all behind you.

Definitely no discriminating in my thread, all are welcome :) But please, no public displays of affection with your partner, there are children present.

Just remember, be true to yourself and we are all behind you.

I guess that's safer than Dave being behind you. :stickoutt

Definitely no discriminating in my thread, all are welcome :) But please, no public displays of affection with your partner, there are children present.

Man, you just queued Tim S for another ambiguously gay comment...

Steve will we get pictures of the carbon fiber seat booster? At 5'6 you should be racing a horse or in an open wheel car.

Leave the tin tops for big guys.:eek:

I guess that's safer than Dave being behind you. :stickoutt

Lol, ouch, low blow (no pun intended).

Ok kids, enough fun, its a build thread, lets keep this to another thread. Thx

Steve will we get pictures of the carbon fiber seat booster? At 5'6 you should be racing a horse or in an open wheel car.

Leave the tin tops for big guys.:eek:

Not funny, although I do prefer karting and formula cars. If formula cars were safer in club racing (or should i say drivers) I would be running a DSR right now. I almost bought one instead of building the E46. $75k and you can run slow DP laptimes!

Ok kids, enough fun, its a build thread, lets keep this to another thread. Thx


Awwww, dad... OK, we can move it back over to our build thread that Steve likes to dilute with his threadjacking. I am accustomed to it. :rolleyes

Awwww, dad... OK, we can move it back over to our build thread that Steve likes to dilute with his threadjacking. I am accustomed to it. :rolleyes

Deal with it lol :stickoutt

At least I talk about relevant topics...not peoples sexual orientation. :nono

At least I talk about relevant topics...not peoples sexual orientation. :nono

And to think it all started with an innocent question about Sofro's old shoes...

And to think it all started with an innocent question about Sofro's old shoes...

Lol, true. The internet is amazing, isn't it?

OK, back to work...watching the market come back to reality and the USD going further in the hole.

Tilton 3 Pedal Floor mount 600 Series.

I got them through Evosport, I don't have pricing on hand, but they are priced pretty standardly. You can probably go to HRP and get pricing online, I just sourced them through Evosport.

Found them at pegasus race supply.....are these the same ones?

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=4594
$467

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Images/L/3534-2007.JPG

OK, back to work...watching the market come back to reality and the USD going further in the hole.

But not so bad as it was versus the Pound still! :redspot

Found them at pegasus race supply.....are these the same ones?

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=4594
$467



That'd be them. You'll also want to look into the Remote Bias Adjuster, as well as the cantilever throttle linkage. Depending on your motor setup, it could be easier to do it right on the throttle assembly (s54 has off the shelf kits from tuners like Evosport). I like the adjustability right on the pedal though.

Depending on your motor setup, it could be easier to do it right on the throttle assembly (s54 has off the shelf kits from tuners like Evosport). I like the adjustability right on the pedal though.

We adapted our 3 pedal set to use the DBW pedal (probably not M20 related though).

it could be easier to do it right on the throttle assembly (s54 has off the shelf kits from tuners like Evosport). I like the adjustability right on the pedal though.

How does one convert the OEM throttle Hall sensor to work with this setup? :confused
Sorry for the newb question.

EDIT: After looking at the Evosport kit you referenced, I assume you're converting the throttle to a cable linkage? Since you mentioned using the OE electronics, how do you reconcile the lack of throttle data with the ECU?

Are you talking to me or James?

I'm using AEM, and an M50...I might even use a morseteleflex pushpull cable for the throttle, but i have to see how much resistance it has on the return, otherwise i'll beef up the return on the throttle body.

Are you talking to me or James?

Both of you actually, I think my mind crossed your build with James's, apparently one black e46 is the same as another to me. :stickoutt

Thanks though, your answer makes sense. It was James who had talked about using the stock electronics.

It was James who had talked about using the stock electronics.

We use DBW also.

We use DBW also.

So are you using the stock DBW throttle sensor with an aftermarket pedal?
That's my real question.

So are you using the stock DBW throttle sensor with an aftermarket pedal?
That's my real question.

Ah-ha - ask the right question to get the right answer! Yes, that is correct. We are using the 900 floor mounts in my WC car with 3 pedals, using parts of the stock pedal and producing an electronic output.

Nice, I like to see OEM component integration like that, as the OEM components are usually better than 90% of whats available "off the shelf."

And typically cheaper...

Ah-ha - ask the right question to get the right answer! Yes, that is correct. We are using the 900 floor mounts in my WC car with 3 pedals, using parts of the stock pedal and producing an electronic output.


Hmm...interesting.
I'd be very interested to see how well this works. In my (admittedly very limited) understanding of hall-effect sensors, you risk an all or nothing scenario if the target is not precisely located with respect to the electrodes.

Any chance of revealing your setup, or is this going to be BW proprietary? ;)

Time to go remove some windshields (tools just came in!)

I copied this from another thread. I didn't want to get if off topic.

What tool are you using? I have been going back and forth about removing the windshield. The glass people get $65, but can't guarentee it comes out in the same condition.

What tool are you using? I have been going back and forth about removing the windshield. The glass people get $65, but can't guarentee it comes out in the same condition.

I used the tool below to remove the front and rear windows in my E30 M3. I picked it up locally at a PepBoys/Autozone/Murrays/etc. for about $10. Worked like a champ--took about 15 min total for both windows and neither broke, not that I'm going to reuse them ;-)

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TA-87900.html

Well, I'm tossing the glass, but the rear I just spent 45min on and got it out without a scratch on it. I'm using the traditional Blade windshield removal tool, and some piano wire with vise grips.

The front windshield however...that's being a bitch! I got frustrated and just kicked it, so its pretty busted up, but the sealant on the bottom is so thick, it just bends the knife, and I can't get the piano wire down there.

I'm in the garage right now looking at it, needed to take a rest...12am, almost bed time lol

I think on an older car (e30/e36) the sealant is prob easier to cut through. This stuff on the E46 is solid, and thick!

Thanks for posting from the other thread.

I think on an older car (e30/e36) the sealant is prob easier to cut through. This stuff on the E46 is solid, and thick!


I wouldn't be surprised if it was thicker/hard to remove on the newer cars-- mine had ~20 years to harden, assuming they were original. I was surprised however on how think it was on the windshield. Adhesives tend to be stronger when applied thin.

The front windshield however...that's being a bitch! I got frustrated and just kicked it, so its pretty busted up, but the sealant on the bottom is so thick, it just bends the knife, and I can't get the piano wire down there.


Haha, we need a pic of that!

"teh jaffster windshield" is no more lol

Smashed and discarded...I just got fed up, and it only took 5 minutes to cleanup the mess.

I think the 20year old stuff would be easier to "crack." The problem with "fresh" sealant is its very gooey and yields being cut or "broken." For example, when I was using the piano wire (stranded, basically a chainsaw) it would melt the sealant and basically stick back together. If it was 20years old it would just crumble, as it would be very brittle.

Anyways, Windows are out, some left over sealant to remove (chisel works great), and next its going on the rotisserie :)

I also got a spot weld drill kit today so I can remove the roof this weekend. Hopefully my Mig welder comes tomorrow, and I can go early in the morning to get a tank of C25 and start welding this weekend. Argh, I also need to get another tank of Argon for the tig too.

Pics tomorrow, 1:15am, time for bed.

Car is fully suspended on the rotisserie. I still have to get the balance fine tuned, probably have to get it closer to the pivot axis, but its pretty friggin cool.

I'll have some pics up later this evening.

Now the fun part of prepping the chassis, finishing a bunch of welding, seam welding, remove the roof, etc etc etc

Now the fun part of prepping the chassis, finishing a bunch of welding, seam welding, remove the roof, etc etc etc

Did I miss some step that involved removing the undercoating? If not what are you plans for that?

Are you kidding? TEH JAFFSTER just looks at undercoating and it falls off the car, shriveling in fear of the MIGHTY 5'6" JAFFSTER and his CARBON FIBER OF DOOM.

Just kidding man. Glad everything's going OK. Wish I had the free time, patience, and disposable income that you do...

Are you kidding? TEH JAFFSTER just looks at undercoating and it falls off the car, shriveling in fear of the MIGHTY 5'6" JAFFSTER and his CARBON FIBER OF DOOM.
:lol I really did "LOL" when I read that.

Yep, I pretty much gave it a dirty look, said some italian sounding curses, and it all just pretty much fell off the car.

Knotted wire wheel works pretty well. I might actually leave some spots of undercoating on to make sure the chassis will last if it encounters water...just spots like the wheel wells. Since a lot of the underside will be covered (mmm, flat bottom aero) I'll take everything off the bottom.

I am uploading pics later, the car is mounted on the rotisserie, and I started prepping the chassis for everything...this will definitely take me a couple weeks as I only have maybe 20 hours at night during the week to work on the car.

MIg welder is coming monday though, so hopefully i can atleast start seamwelding soon.

Ok, pardon the mess, we're still moving into the shop area, and everything is kind of just "there" until its all setup. I also picked up a 30ton press with the Rotisserie (BIG thumbs up for www.GregSmithEquipment.com). The wire shelving on the right is all the new misc parts going on the car, from Ohlins to Rotora, quite a bit of shtuff there.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/e46rotisserie.JPG

And here is a stack of Body parts upstairs in the storage area...its crazy how many parts make up a car.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/partstack.JPG

Thanks for the Greg Smith Equipment link. Lots of goodies to check out..:cool

I have hardwood floors in my storage area too, ok no I don't.

Shop looks nice, should make for rapid progress.

GregSmith not only has good products, but the customer service is top notch.

The shop is coming along, its still a long ways away. still need to get the Mohawk lift in, put the compressor in the utility room and run lines, get the lathe in, put up the cabinets, do the floors, etc.

The area on the right, where the wireshelving is will be turning into a machining area, lathe/mill/etc for fabrication.

Thats pergo, not hardwood, its like plastic laminated wood, its awesome actually. You can't scratch it, its upstairs in the lounge.

I'd be lying if I said I'm not just a little jealous. That garage is going to be awesome, I would never leave. I can't believe how affordable some of the stuff on gse.com is.

Is the shop connected to your house?

Looking good Steve.

I'd be lying if I said I'm not just a little jealous. That garage is going to be awesome, I would never leave. I can't believe how affordable some of the stuff on gse.com is.



No kidding about gse.com! Especially the rotisserie and 2-post lifts. :eek:

Gonna keep that in mind for the future garage.

Hey Steve, what no CNC, Mastercam machines??? :stickoutt

Lathe will prob be purchased in a month or so, and mill this spring (no need for mill really, but at some point I'll get it).

I definitely could not do most of this stuff without the rotisserie, its amazing.

I did not feel like grinding undercoating today (maybe tonight), but I cut out all the sheet metal for the subframe cage supports (4 holes) and am going to cut the trailing arm support as well.

I ran into an issue when i removed the subframe, I realize the original design i had to integrate my rear control arm setup is not going to work, so I have to find another way to retrofit it. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, so keeping as much of the stock subframe as possible...if it proves to be a PITA, I'll just ditch the brackets and weld on some plates to the subframe like the MS subframe has.

Ok, pardon the mess,

Man, I wish I had to deal with that kind of "mess". :)

OK, made great progress today. I did some small stuff (removed rubber bushings from subframe), cut the 4 subframe reinforcement holes, "tunneled" the rear end to make room for control arms, and started on the trailing arm "bucket" support, although its very hard to get in there to cut the sheet metal out, i'm going to have to get creative with a sawzall probably.

I'll be removing undercoating this week, and getting the Mig welder setup tomorrow. Hopefully I can get really good with this mig so I can let the tig sit out for some tasks, it should make things go quicker.

started on the trailing arm "bucket" support, although its very hard to get in there to cut the sheet metal out, i'm going to have to get creative with a sawzall probably.

Took about 10 minutes with a plasma cutter on my car.

Took about 10 minutes with a plasma cutter on my car.

Plasma cutter is on the list...right after the lathe.

MIller DVI2 MIG came in today though, its a HUGE box...unpacking/setting it up tonight.

I'll prob end up getting millers for $900 http://store.cyberweld.com/specthun115v.html

Plasma cutter is on the list...right after the lathe.

MIller DVI2 MIG came in today though, its a HUGE box...unpacking/setting it up tonight.

I'll prob end up getting millers for $900 http://store.cyberweld.com/specthun115v.html

How big (swing & distance between centers) of a lathe are you going to purchase? Single phase or three phase?

How big (swing & distance between centers) of a lathe are you going to purchase? Single phase or three phase?

Relatively Small, 12x24, single phase, nothing crazy.

Plasma cutter is on the list...right after the lathe.

MIller DVI2 MIG came in today though, its a HUGE box...unpacking/setting it up tonight.

I'll prob end up getting millers for $900 http://store.cyberweld.com/specthun115v.html


i was going to get that plasma cutter but i went with the spectrum extreme, and i love it, and i ended up paying only 1250 for it so it isnt that much more then that one. Its so tinny i makes the dynasty look huge

Plasma cutter is on the list...right after the lathe.

MIller DVI2 MIG came in today though, its a HUGE box...unpacking/setting it up tonight.

I'll prob end up getting millers for $900 http://store.cyberweld.com/specthun115v.html

Check out HTP America as well at http://www.htpweld.com/ Most of their stuff is European made (Italy) and of excellent quality. They have great customer service and also have a 90 day return policy that allowed me to upgrade my Invertig 160DC to a 201 AC/DC. I'm a very happy customer :-)

If you're in Chicago, they also offer a Saturday TIG class once a quarter or so taught by the chief fabricator at Newman-Haas. Jerry has amazing skills.

Cyberweld has the spectrum extreme 375 for $1150, might be worth it.

I'd rather stick with Miller, although the HTP looks real nice.

I took a Motorsport "custom" tig weekend course with our fsae team, was awesome. The guy who taught us could put a weld bead on the edge of a soda can!

I understand about keeping with a brand and you can't really go wrong with Miller. I have a Miller 180 for a MIG and while it's great, the feed mechanism in the HTP is a little better. If I hadn't gotten the Miller for so cheap (thank you Craigslist!), I would have gone with an HTP.

Plasma cutter is on the list...right after the lathe.

MIller DVI2 MIG came in today though, its a HUGE box...unpacking/setting it up tonight.

I'll prob end up getting millers for $900 http://store.cyberweld.com/specthun115v.html

My last plasma cutter was a spectrum 300 (no longer made, but bigger than the spectrum 125) and I wished that I had bought a bigger one. When I do buy one again I am going to get the Spectrum 375 X-treme. I think that is would be worth the extra $$. It is like your mig welder with the dual voltage feature. You can find them on ebay all day long on buy-it-nows for $1120 w/ free shipping.

After you use that Miller DVI2 you will have to tell us how you like it. It is the one I am thinking about buying when I can't use the one at work any more.

Yea, Cyberweld is pretty local, and I get great service from them, plus free next day delivery since i'm so close. I think i'm definitely going with the 375 extreme, for the money and the price, it looks perfect.

I should be trying it tomorrow night, I have to get some gas and a 10# spool in the morning.

Here are some updates from tonight. I finished removing the roof...100+ weld nut drillouts later, and it popped right off, nice and clean. I also started on the undercoating using a knotted wirewheel. As long as you go slow, it takes it off very fast, and very clean. This is only about 90 minutes of work, and I spent most of that time doing the very small hard to reach areas in corners and stuff, and where it was 1/4" thick! The thin areas take 2 seconds, its the thick stuff you have to go slow. I figure by sunday I should be done. I might also try burning out the seam sealant to help the welds not get too contaminated. On the E46 there is mostly paint under there, the undercoating is really only on the seam areas and the frame rails, otherwise I don't have to do much down there other than a quick grind over the seam to get it clean for welding.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/roofgone.JPG

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/undercoat.JPG

Here are some updates from tonight. I finished removing the roof...100+ weld nut drillouts later, and it popped right off, nice and clean.

Do you have any pictures of the spot weld drill bit you used? I'm not too happy with the one I bought and wanted to see what you used.

This one worked fantastic!
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/blr11096.html

It comes with two drill bits, and 3 cutting heads. I busted one drill bit b/c the allen head was screw in too tight and it did not retract. But otherwise, it worked flawlessly, and the same head not only lasted for the entire roof, but its still in great condition.

Plus it comes in a nice plastic case :)

http://www.blairequipment.com/Spotweld_Cutters/images/both-premium-spotweld-new.jpg

This one worked fantastic!
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/blr11096.html

It comes with two drill bits, and 3 cutting heads. I busted one drill bit b/c the allen head was screw in too tight and it did not retract. But otherwise, it worked flawlessly, and the same head not only lasted for the entire roof, but its still in great condition.

Plus it comes in a nice plastic case :)



thank you, thank you, thank you......I have some spot welds to drill out soon......

I found this technique to work well: Do a quick center punch on all the spot welds. Use a high torque corded drill (i.e. Bosch, etc). Go slow until it has a good bite and then do a couple pecks. Using the peck drilling method i found it went quicker and cleaner. 2-3 Pecks and it popped right through the first layer.

This one worked fantastic!
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/blr11096.html

It comes with two drill bits, and 3 cutting heads. I busted one drill bit b/c the allen head was screw in too tight and it did not retract. But otherwise, it worked flawlessly, and the same head not only lasted for the entire roof, but its still in great condition.

Plus it comes in a nice plastic case :)

http://www.blairequipment.com/Spotweld_Cutters/images/both-premium-spotweld-new.jpg

Looks a lot better than the one I bought. I'll know for next time.

Those tools look familiar...

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/PEI330Ci/Chassis%20Fabrication/January08CarBuild-41.jpg

The urethane left over from the front and rear windows I stripped off with this:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/PEI330Ci/Chassis%20Fabrication/January08CarBuild-42.jpg

Loving that rotissery Steve, I bought one myself.

Make sure you wear a good respirator mask when sanding this shit. You won't realize it until its too late that you are surrounded by toxic fumes.

I used a chisel to remove all the weatherstripping and misc stuff left fro the window. Then a quick grind to expose the spotwelds.

Are you putting a carbon roof on, or just another skin so you can have access to do the cage?

Are you putting a carbon roof on, or just another skin so you can have access to do the cage?

Silly me, pulled the roof off AFTER most of the cage work was done. Didn't affect the build at all though.

Yes, CF roof is going on, although not from either of the "usual" sources.

Hey - I would say that evosport IS a usual source for CF roofs! :D

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=931231
Steve, here are some CF and Kevlar pieces that I am also letting go cheap!

Thanks
Brad

Your my usual source lol :D

Nice plug for the parts sales, some real nice looking stuff, but I'll pass for right now.

Carbon Roof is the only component I will have to do during this stage of the build/project (Thanks again).

I did not get to work on the car last night, had back to back hockey games and it just totally exhausted me. Will be removing undercoating tonight though :redspot....AND playing with the new MIG.

I have a carbon roof that came off the CM car here - seemed to have a fair share of glass in the middle of it:confused Didn't come from Evosport I think. As with all carbon these days, know what you are getting.

I always love to show this:
http://www.evosport.com/public/products/roof/roof_weight_comparo.gif

47.91 pounds plus some speed holes = 48lbs saved, wahoo!

What structural adhesives have worked well?

I've had good success with steel to carbon bonding with Loctites Structural Adhesives (dont have the number off hand). You use the swizzle sticks to mix, it turns green, and you can heat cure it to speed up the process.

Brad, I need to talk to your guys about some tricks for clamping it down. I'm thinking some tiny rivets every couple inches should do the trick.

Fusor.

I would stay away from riveting it to the under structure. More holes = more chance for rust. Although, since your spot-weld bit doubles as a drill bit, you have pre-existing holes to use already. :) Clamp the roof down where you want it BEFORE you glue or permanently install it using c clamps with paint sticks as to not mar up the surface and self tapping screws where you can't get clamps. Have all the stuff ready to go, then glue.

I would stay away from riveting it to the under structure. More holes = more chance for rust. Although, since your spot-weld bit doubles as a drill bit, you have pre-existing holes to use already. :) Clamp the roof down where you want it BEFORE you glue or permanently install it using c clamps with paint sticks as to not mar up the surface and self tapping screws where you can't get clamps. Have all the stuff ready to go, then glue.


Have you installed these on E46's?

I'll wait to talk to Brad and see what their experience says.

I don't think the rust will be an issue. There are no holes created from the spotweld bit, thats why its a spot weld bit! It has a spring loaded drill bit. You are basically milling out the spotweld on the top surface, and if done properly you do not touch the mounting material.

I've put together 3 carbon hybrid monocoques using Loctite structural adhesive, and we even created a little oven to cure it. The issue is making sure you have proper surface prep. The stuff from loctite is amazing, especially in tear, shear, and direct tension. We had carbon delaminate before the adhesive showed even the slightly sign of an imperfection, pretty amazing. I'd rather use low profilefasteners, either permament or temporary than clamps, as it will be pretty hard to clamp in most areas.

Rust was a minor concern. I was just admiring the holes in the front roof bow and the tops of the quarters where there used to be spot welds, just throwing it out there. Seriously though, I'm just picking. As far as my experience, well did you see the guys at BW trying to get that carbon roof off of the winter c-mod project?

Yea, thats where I found out the spring was actually inside lol The set screw was too tight originally, and I did not realize it had a spring inside. After I found out it was equipped with a spring, there were no holes after that.

The hole are ok, I'll just put tape and some wood strips on the backside, and the adhesive will just fill in that small space, no big deal.

Actually, my bad, they are speed holes ;) Part of the weight loss program.

No buddy I did put it on.

can't we all get along!

Jaffe is anal, Paint sounds like he is pretty experienced.

You guys should see some of what we have seen people do on CF roof installs - crazy. No center bow. Not using proper adhesives or clamping, etc..... CRAZY!

I'm just picking with the poor guy. I'm sure he knows exactly what to do.

I just heard the quickest way to get past Non-Spam status was to start up a conversation with you Steve that's all.

Best of luck to ya.

lol - now that is funny. how much did Clay pay you to go and do that! lol

Haha, yea I heard thats being sent to all new BF members, just PM me 100 times and make posts taking cheap shots at me ;)

Thanks for the advice. Have you tried different techniques, or was the the only one you have done? I'm trying to just see which available techniques works best...as I'm sure many work, but I'd rather do it right the first time. I guess you did a pretty damn good job considering how hard it looked you guys were working to get it off. Thats a sign of a good install.

Quick update pertaining to this Build Thread though...I just tried my Miller DVI2 out, and after realizing it did not come with a tip in the nozzle (Dumbass here, it was a long day, sorry) I got it running and its B-e-a-utiful! Amazing machine for the money, very happy. Even after 3 years of not mig welding, I laid down a solid bead first try.

Now to remove this undercoating and get this Mig welder going to work seam welding!

No buddy I did put it on.

LOL. When I say take a car to paint, Paint is half of the paint team at Bassen's. Not everyone on the forums speaks in theory Steve ;)

lol - now that is funny. how much did Clay pay you to go and do that! lol

Paint is our newest member of the internet conspiracy to constantly poke at Steve. Or maybe I am not the only one that enjoys it every once in a while when he gets in over his head in BS :)

Paint is our newest member of the internet conspiracy to constantly poke at Steve. Or maybe I am not the only one that enjoys it every once in a while when he gets in over his head in BS :)

I confess I am a member...

Yeah, you were a victim of my favorite pass time, watching paint dry. Well, 10.5 hours, 3 colors, and 12 coats of paint later (ok one last jab) I'm done. You've been a good sport.

If you find a good method of getting something to work, stick with it. Don't over ANALyze. I just wanted to share one method with you.

Disclosure: I call them as I see them. Picking up what I'm putting down?
Until next time...

Paint is our newest member of the internet conspiracy to constantly poke at Steve. Or maybe I am not the only one that enjoys it every once in a while when he gets in over his head in BS :)

Only once in a while...oh you're being nice tonight James, whats up with that? :evil2

Paint, do you work for Bassen too, or just part of the on-demand team for when BW's WC cars get banged up?

Maybe we've met? We were at bassens shop a bunch in 05 if you were there then.

Some updates:

I got springs in today and tossed them on the Ohlins, fitted the booties, all is good, I just need to machine a couple centering rings for the needle bearings. Perches/etc are for 2.5" and I am using 60mm springs.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/OhlinsDone.JPG



And undercoating removal continues...almost through my first knotted wire wheel, not bad considering i'm about 25-30% done. I'm thinking by sunday evening I should be close to done removing all this crap. Then I have a bunch of sheet metal peices to fab and weld on, finish some welding on the exhaust tunnel, and finish seam welding.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/undercoating2.JPG

What spring rates are you running Steve? I'm especially curious of the tenders.

Also where did you source those spring joiners and needle bearings? I have a couple of companies in mind for needle bearings but I wanted to see what teh Jaffster chose. :D

Well, for one thing they are special teh jaffster edition needle bearings, one offs, they have 1 billion nanometer ball bearings in each assembly, and have a new spaceage nasa/jpl developed lubricant that lasts for 300 years.

They are just off the shelf 2.5" needle bearings from RE suspension. :)

Tender rates are 25 rear, 40 front...trying something a little different than what has been used before, but not very far off (I'm trying slightly stiffer). I got an extra set of front/rear main springs that are 50lbs up, so I'm going to start with my baseline lower rates, and go up if needed.

Spring couplers/joiners are from H&R...I wanted red but this was the only color available. They match my calipers, bling ;)

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/9-22-06/main/p9210004.jpg

Great to see ya rolling here Steve.
Hmmmmm.... yep, I remember wire brushing that underside quite well. Goes faster then you thought, no?

http://ghmyc_1m.tripod.com/sledmini_roto10.jpg

"I got springs in today and tossed them on the Ohlins, fitted the booties, all is good, I just need to machine a couple centering rings for the needle bearings. Perches/etc are for 2.5" and I am using 60mm springs."

Condoms for dampers.:cool Good one.

Condoms for dampers.:cool Good one.

Whatever works for you, sure, condoms for dampers it is.


Great to see ya rolling here Steve.
Hmmmmm.... yep, I remember wire brushing that underside quite well. Goes faster then you thought, no?



Yea, its not bad. Once I just sit there on the stool for get into a groove, it goes by fast. I figure with tonight, saturday/sun it should be almost there. I'm also going to get some gunk out from inside the car and weld om seams on the top side too...there is some nasty stuff in the car in a couple corners.

What spring rates are you running Steve? I'm especially curious of the tenders.

Also where did you source those spring joiners and needle bearings? I have a couple of companies in mind for needle bearings but I wanted to see what teh Jaffster chose. :D
The couplers are from us. We have inner and outer, but typically you will need an outer like Steve has due to limited clearance between the inside of the spring and housing.

thanks
brad

Ah, yea, forgot to say that :) All the springs came direct from Evosport, including the pimp blue couplers.

As Brad mentioned, its a clearance thing. 60mm is just a hair smaller then 2.5" but its enough that I would rather not have a small alum ring inside there potentially getting bound up on the shaft and the spring.

Also note that this was just pitting assembly, the needle bearings on the rear will be going on the side with the main spring, not the tender. So when the tender is fully compressed, the main spring is the one that will be compressing and that will require the needle bearing more than the "solid" tender. The same with the fronts, as I have not machined (no lathe yet) the centering rings for the needle bearings, I just put them on there so they would not get lost.

Ahh thanks for the insight.

Brad, I'll have to get in contact with you soon for a set, in that case, and probably order a set of tenders too.

Glad to see everything coming along, dampers look great.
I've been contemplating switching over from 2.25" to 2.50", as I'm having a difficult time finding hardware, needle bearings, tophats....

switch to 60mm. I have everything you would need available!

switch to 60mm. I have everything you would need available!

60mm will work with the spring perches and tophats from my 2.25" setup, right?

Your lucky! Looks like the E46 has a lot less undercoating than the E36!:shifty

Your lucky! Looks like the E46 has a lot less undercoating than the E36!:shifty

Yea, I was telling people before that the E46 has a lot of spots that are just painted where the E36 had a nice thick coat of undercoating. There are only a couple bad spots on the bottom side that are very thick, otherwise, its a very thin coat of undercoating that comes right off.

The place where I want to get is in the car though, b/c there are a couple places where i guess they thought water/moisture could collect, and they laid it on really thick.

I'm in the garage right now, getting to work on undercoating right now.

Ok, well after 45min of undercoating removal, my knotted wire wheel was no more. So I will pickup a couple more tomorrow morning and hopefully by sunday evening I will be done removing undercoating. Then prep for seam welding, then reinforcement plates, then prep for cage! Engine coming in 3-4 weeks, i'm hoping to have it dropped in the car for some cage tubing mockup.

Since I could not do undercoating tonight, I decided to do some sheet metal work. I made the last brace for the fuel cell. I think there was some oil in a couple spots, b/c I could not get the material fully clean and it was slightly contaminated, made for 2 messy beads (in the center by the 3 smaller flares), but otherwise, it went well. I did not feel like mig welding this, but probably should have. Still happy with how it came out. I'll cleanup the 2 poor welds, and throw a coat of primer on it.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/fuelcellsupport2.JPG

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/fuelcellbrace.JPG

Undercoating - looks like I might just remove everything and repaint it. For the time it takes to remove the large flat areas, its worth it. I have to get the airgrinder out for the few small crevises the grinder can't reach.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/undercoating3.JPG

Quick update. Productive half day/night, I got 95% of the undercoating off. I also purchased some Mapp gas to burn out the seamsealer where i'm going to seamweld.

The last 5% will probably take the better part of the week because it includes all the tiny corners where they piled undercoating and sealer into. So i'll have to use different tools/attachments, and get in there. I'll also prep some of the interior where I'm going to seam weld (basically just the panels by the suspension points).

One of my grinders decided to die today (cheap pos) so I had to use a smaller, old grinder that is not as effective, so what took me 2 hours to do should have only taken 1.

I'll take pictures tomorrow.

Steve,

Did you happen to sweep the undercoating "dust" up and weigh it?

I did this and was very surprised by how light it was. For example I did a pretty thorough job of the front wheel wells and came up with 2.2Lbs total of "dust".

All the dust is in the vacuum, I can weigh it at the end.

I will say the REAR wheel wells are about 1/4" thick. I removed just the undercoating where the seams were and tonight I'll remove the rest...first I have to fix the busted switch on the grinder though haha

Ok, quick updates, its 130am and i'm spent!

I started seamwelding tonight, made some really good progress. I'd say about 80% done!

I have the engine bay left, and two spots on the frame rails that I have yet to remove the undercoating from because I need to find an attachment to reach.

I'll hopefully start the cage reinforcement plates and tubes by the weekend, and some misc sheet metal work (capping off some holes, rear control arm cleanrancing tunnels, etc).

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/seamweld1.JPG

Looks like you are doing 50/50 stitch weld...

In your opinion, is it at all worth the weight of wire to come back and fill in the other 50% - ie the red:
http://www.warhof.com/warp/seamweld1.jpg

Thanks,

Well, it is stitch seam welding, not fully welding the car together. It does the job. and does not warp the car too much. You are putting a lot of heat into existing mated surfaces, so I think stitching fits the application. Pretty standard procedure. There is no need to have so many welds, the car is designed to function with just spotwelds, so stitches help with the stresses seen from racing.

Time flies when you're seamwelding...well specifically time flies when you are prepping for seamwelding lol I looked up at the clock and it was 130am, so I called it a night.

I finished all the main seam welding, including everything under the car, in the engine bay, rear wheel wells (underneath), and firewall.

next I'm going to clean everything up (including removing the last of the undercoating), maybe touch up some spots with the tig where the welds were a little fugly (I experimented in some spots to try and reduce contamination), and do a couple seamwelds on the interior (mostly in the rear), also will prob do some subframe reinforcement plates.

I'm going to toss a quick spray of primer on the bottom of the car as well, it'll stop any surface rust from forming until I paint the whole car after the cage is done.

3 day weekend, and I hope to get all the cage reinforcement plates, as well as the subframe and rear cage mounting tubes in places.

I also disassembled the front subframe/controlarm/spindles, and pressed in the GC LCAB's, although I'm going to need to make a delrin insert to fit the new control arms :)

What wire feed and heat setting did you end up using?

....... although I'm going to need to make a delrin insert to fit the new control arms :)

Front?

Front?

Yep :) I should have more details next week.

What wire feed and heat setting did you end up using?

Depends on where I am welding. Feed ranges from 25-35 so far, and I am only using 1 or 2 on the heat. This stuff is very thin.

I have not welding something this dirty in a while, and I will definitely say, next time around I'll spend more time getting it super clean, it really does make a HUGE difference. Although, Mapp gas does come nin handy for getting the seamsealer out.

you painting the entire car?

you painting the entire car?

I'm just throwing a quick coat of primer on the bottom so it won't rust.

I asked about the bushings Steve because I have always felt that Derlin front bushings, rear front control arm bushings, are a very bad idea. The control arm does not rotate on a single axis inside that bushing. It actually 'rocks', not rotate. The Derlin is just way too stiff and I think you will find that once front and rear bushings are all bolted up that the control arm will be unmovable. Maybe 1/2" up and down.
Maybe you are not using the front ball joint any longer? Are you replacing this with something else?

I made these instead.

http://ghmyc_1m.tripod.com/100_1108.jpg

I made these instead.

http://ghmyc_1m.tripod.com/100_1108.jpg

Nice looking. I'm going to go with bearings in this location as well, just not sure which ones yet...haven't really looked around actually so hopefully there are a couple choices.

I made these instead.

I was already impressed by (Onasled's) build, but this is just some very nice icing on a fantastic cake. (Steve, yours is nice too.)

-tammer

Not using balljoints, outer/inner are spherical (more on this next week when hopefully the parts arrive :))

Delrin has worked on many cars, not sure what your experience has been though, maybe its a Mini thing?

The problem with using a spherical piece like the one you made is sometimes it does not allow enough articulation, and binds...but I am mocking my stuff up next week hopefully, so I'll let you know :) It definitely can be done, you just have to check everything under load.

How does your bearing solve the problem of this "rocking" you speak of? The bearing will pivot along the same axis, it will not allow for any lateral movement outside the pivot axis through the center of the bearing.

Also, did you check your geometry, in may cases the geometry can be further corrected and improved with the bearing being offset toward the outside of the car. Although, looking at your piece, its a massive, bearing, so there is prob no room, unless you make the housing offset, but its too late for that.

Steve, My experience is about 180 degrees opposite here.
I think this will be a wait and see answer. Maybe your front pivot pickup is not in fact a factory ball joint. If modified from that then you'll be OK.

Tonight I finished the seam welding, including some rear bulkhead/wheel well stitching on the interior. I also did a small side project and reinforced the engine mounts on the front subframe. I'm going to reinforce the rear subframe underside this week, probably just pickup a reinforcement kit, its easier than making them all from scratch.

I'm going to pickup some self etching primer in the morning, and after cleaning the car off, primer the bottom of the car, and some areas inside. I'd rather grind away primer later, than grind away rust later.

Next on the list is finishing the rear reinforcements for the cage tie in, rtab support cage tie in, and rear shock tower tie ins.

Quick update before I pass out. I removed all the balljoints/mounts from the rear subframe, front subframe engine mount reinforcements are done, finished cleaning the rear wheel wells and got a quick coat of primer in there. I also got the pedal mount in (one spot to weld left on it), and finished welding the shifter mount.

On the list for this week is rear subframe reinforcements, finish wing mount tabs (quick 1hr project), picking up materials for reinforcement plates and subframe/rtab tie in tubing, and finish the cage design so i can start doing some layouts.

Some side projects are skinning the stock trunk, finishing the control arm "tunnels" for extra travel, and just making sure the cage design is finalized so I can start banging that out...I don't have a bender here so I'll have to weld one together as a template with the A pillars and have it bent at a local shop.

Pics tomorrow.

Ok some pics, last thing left to do tonight is cut out material for RTAB cage tie in rienforcement.

Front Subframe reinforcements:

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/subbottom.JPG

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/subtop.JPG

Clearance for rear control arms:

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/armtunnel.JPG

Primed:

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/undercoating4.JPG

very nice. I just just soda-blasted my front and rear subframes in preparation for welding in the reinforcements, they they are getting powder-coated.

Keep up the good work, thanks for all of the info/pictures

looks great!

Thanks. I just cut and welded the caps onto the rear subframe front reinforcement "posts." And I just realized my tig torch head is cracked at the gas inlet! I'll have to call Miller in the morning for a replacement, should be under warranty.

I decided on a final design for the rear subframe front reinforcement supports. There will be a tube going from the RTAB "bucket" post, and then an "X" going from the horizontal harness bar node across to the opposite side subframe tie-in.

Basically, take what RRT did (shown below) and tie in the RTAB bucket. They won't be tied to the rear subframe mounts, those will just tie into the shock towers, as in the MS chassis.

http://www.rrtsuspension.com/images/links/rrt_mod_cage_rear.jpg

The motorsport gusset is two peices, tiny weld bead down the center. Its not only curved, but its out of plane, so its a very tricky piece. Hopefully the technique I'm using will provided similar strength (could possibly be stronger), and will be easier to fabricate.

I always thought it was two tubes mated by a gusset, interesting...

Looking great, what is your bhp goal?

Steve,

I'm interested in your view of the forces applied to the 6 rear suspension pick-up points.

As I understand it:

RTAB: Longitudinal (Accel and deccel)
Front and rear subframe pickups: torsional, and lateral

With all 6 of these pickup points, would it not be most benificial to target the force applied directly on it's plane?

Looking great, what is your bhp goal?

M52 2.8L very stockish build, will not be pushing much PSI, I hopefully can do 350whp/350wtrq easily with great reliability. Small turbo, fast spool, very little or no lag. Power band will prob be 3500-7000.

Steve,

I'm interested in your view of the forces applied to the 6 rear suspension pick-up points.

As I understand it:

RTAB: Longitudinal (Accel and deccel)
Front and rear subframe pickups: torsional, and lateral

With all 6 of these pickup points, would it not be most benificial to target the force applied directly on it's plane?

Due to constraints of the chassis you can only support it in some directions, and considering so many people run without these supports and are "working," all it does is help.

The forces will vary depending on conditions. Basically, the goal is to just give extra support, and reduce the chance the mount is going to move in relation to the other mounts, and won't rip out of the chassis :)

Tonight I welded the subframe reinforcement plates on the bottom of the car. I finally got the welder dialed in and the metal clean and the welds came out nice. I also started making the plates that cover the subframe cage tie ins, however even after I ground down the metal so it was super clean, it was still getting contaminated...still trying to figure