Huh? So you can hold a pointy thing that makes a spark while shoving a rod into the puddle and at the same time press a pedal but when they just give you the pointy thing that makes the spark you can't handle it? Oh common!

BTW that orange/banana thing is hilarious. :D

Carlos.

lol thanks, i found it on a honda board and i still cant stop laughing at it every time i see it

Lol idk what is is, i dont play with the mig much i just got it for sheet metal. Im sure if i use it more id get better, but since the cage is 4130 i just tig, and i love how i can control every aspect of the weld, which i know u can do with mig, i just dont really practice with it much.

Steve im very interested to see what u do for the a pillars, i have designed a bending jig for an un curved gusset like in watts car, but im really intertesting to see what you are doing for the your car. I know you really want to have a curved one.

Cool, but what did you need to design a bending jig for? Use two hands, some clamps, and a tube, and BAM you have a nice smooth "accurate" bend :)

I finally found a local (well kind of local, 45mi away) that has a roll bender, so I am going to make a large radius to go from the roof down to the Apillar. The motorsport cages terminate mid way down the vertical tube, but I am going to see if I can get it down to the joint where the door X mates into.

This is basically what it will look like (I hope...it's going to be a lot of fab work to make it look clean), but with the sheet metal gussets. Its going to be pretty close to the Apillar itself, I don't want it closing up the egress hole too much.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/apillarfinal.jpg

[

Here are some shots of the tubes into the engine bay, and the harness mounts I redid. I'll probably also put a small taco-gusset on each of the harness eyebolt mounts.
http://jaffster.com/E46M3/3-30-08/


http://jaffster.com/E46M3/3-30-08/main/p3290002.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/3-30-08/main/p3290001.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/3-30-08/main/p3290001.jpg

Is that really safe?
Just napkin engineering, but those tabs look like they would tear/shear off the harness tube under load.
Edit: Plus, even if they do hold, you're now applying a heavy torque to the harness bar. A gusset isn't going to do much, because most load is going to be out of plane. I dunno, looks questionable.

Edit 2: Why not run both bars down to the diagonal below them? I'd either do that or take the hit and re-position the harness bar. It's your build though, I'm just playing armchair qb.

Is that really safe?
Just napkin engineering, but those tabs look like they would tear/shear off the harness tube under load.
Edit: Plus, even if they do hold, you're now applying a heavy torque to the harness bar. A gusset isn't going to do much, because most load is going to be out of plane. I dunno, looks questionable.

Edit 2: Why not run both bars down to the diagonal below them? I'd either do that or take the hit and re-position the harness bar. It's your build though, I'm just playing armchair qb.

I thought the same stuff when I saw that. The harness bar is not something you wanna compromise with, imho. When I first saw how high the bar was (about 10 pages ago), it seemed REALLY out of place, even for a high seat.

I agree. It would be a major pain in the ass but I would cut out the bar and gussets and relocate the harness bar to line up with the vertex of the main hoop bends.

Thanks for the input. I debated cutting it out, and still might cut it out, these were more of a test, if anything.

The harness bar before was proper height, as you might have read the seat was very high. Now that the seat is lower, I'm going to reevaluate the harness bar. Sucks, but I think I have an idea to clean it up.

Consideirng where the bar would be relocated, I think I can get away with cutting off the large gusset and reusing it, and just end up having to make a new upper half.

I won't have time to work on it until wed night, I'll prob do the cutting then.

Its definitely not something I want to mess with either, 100% agree, this was moreso a test of positioning and seeing how strong it would be (kind of assuming i'd be cutting it out anyways).

I agree. It would be a major pain in the ass but I would cut out the bar and gussets and relocate the harness bar to line up with the vertex of the main hoop bends.

That won't help since its not at the I need. It'll be exactly horizontal in line with where those two eyebolts are now, approx 2" lower than the current bar.

I thought the same stuff when I saw that. The harness bar is not something you wanna compromise with, imho. When I first saw how high the bar was (about 10 pages ago), it seemed REALLY out of place, even for a high seat.

It was positioned perfectly, but the seat has been lowered 3+ inches, and I have moved up in the seat, so the placement of the harness is totally different.

SteveJ

Time to break out the plasma cutter. You will never be happy knowing that bar is behind you. Your car is going to be nice when it is done. Don't settle because it will be more work/time to cut it out. Now is the time to get it done right.

Yea, thats how I am trying to do this project...no compromises if possible.

So out it comes :)

I think I just needed the prodding from you guys to make sure I don't skimp'rush this stuff haha, thanks again gang.

it really should not be that hard. Sawzall for rough cut, then angle grinder to get it smooth. Cutoff wheel for gusset should do thetrick so i can reuse it.

Sidenote...I gotIBM rescue/reocvery cd's in the mail today and they actually were able to accessmy failed HD! So I backed everything up, and am degaussing it tomorrow to send back (warranty component has to be returned), and am installing everything on the new HD now. So should be up and running by morning.

Also, I should be hearing from the BMW Rules guys and his tech "advisors" if my passenger side harness bar-less setup will be passed. Especially with this new bar i'm putting in the drivers side, it should be no problem.

Easier to do it now, even though it's not easy. Safe or not, those stubs don't look as good as the rest of the car so far. I'm sure it's been annoying, but you'll likely be a lot happier with a less compromised seat position.

Here are some shots of the tubes into the engine bay, and the harness mounts I redid. I'll probably also put a small taco-gusset on each of the harness eyebolt mounts.
http://jaffster.com/E46M3/3-30-08/


http://jaffster.com/E46M3/3-30-08/main/p3290002.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/3-30-08/main/p3290001.jpg

Looks like an awesome place to put a switch/breaker panel.

If I can reach it...lol

I have some Thermoplastic carbon fiber coming in to test for a company in Europe, we'll see how that does for a center console. This carbon fiber can be molded...and REMOLDED!

This whole seat thing has been a headache, and I agree with you all, and appreciate the push/urge to do it right.

Its easy at this point to just say "ok" with some small stuff, but i'm trying to not compromise anything really, do it right the first time...

Thanks again.

My cage design, specifically the lack of passenger side harness bar, has been approved.

With the re-done harness bar, it'll be a no compromise solution, and i'll be much happier.

It always sucks to have to redo things but it will be a lot better and in the end you'll be happier with it, good choice.

It always sucks to have to redo things but it will be a lot better and in the end you'll be happier with it, good choice.

Yep. Everything else I have had enough time to redesign before fabrication...but this I could not predict.

I got a couple hours in tonight and got the harness bar cutout. Another hour to smooth it all out, and then onto the new bar. Pics to come when its completed.

Also finally going to get apillars bent up saturday morning. So I'm going to be working on that and Bpillar gussets this weekend.

So I got the harness bar in, gussets are done just need to weld them in (ran out of wire, hopefully getting more tomorrow).

I'm going to get the tubing bent for the Apillars tomorrow...but i have a feeling they will be too intrusive, so I might just keep it as is, save some weight.

With the cage how it is, tied into the apillars and roof, its pretty solid, and I'm not sure if the apillars would really do that much. Its ~12lbs of extra weight, but if its a safety risk being close to my head and restricting egress, then I might bail on the idea.

Right side net came in today, so I can get that situated this weekend as well.

I was curious to see how egress worked out. With your seat position, it seems possible. A normal seat position...forget it

So I got the harness bar in, gussets are done just need to weld them in (ran out of wire, hopefully getting more tomorrow).

I'm going to get the tubing bent for the Apillars tomorrow...but i have a feeling they will be too intrusive, so I might just keep it as is, save some weight.

With the cage how it is, tied into the apillars and roof, its pretty solid, and I'm not sure if the apillars would really do that much. Its ~12lbs of extra weight, but if its a safety risk being close to my head and restricting egress, then I might bail on the idea.

Right side net came in today, so I can get that situated this weekend as well.
I think you may be on the right track leaving off those massive A pillar gussets. ;)

I think you may be on the right track leaving off those massive A pillar gussets. ;)

Yea...as of right now, I'm going to get them bent up in the morning (2hours of driving/gas, plus a couple bucks to get them bent). I'll do a quick notch and see how they fit.

They were going to be very close to the cage, but I have a feeling its not only overkill, but could affect egress enough that its just straight up not worth it.

I have to atleast try though...its worth the early morning trip to see how they would look.

Thanks for the input guys...i think I basically just need some prodding to cross them off the list lol

I have a HUGE list of stuff to do, even without the apillars, so hopefully a full weekend of work will cross most of the items off the list.

overkill

could affect egress

see how they would look.

Thanks for the input guys...i think I basically just need some prodding to cross them off the list lol


IMO, you've covered it pretty well! lol
I had them on my e36. Great looking, but weight up high in the car is the worst!

In any car that has to meet a specific weight, they might be worth the effort, but in Mod, I would think your "overkill" description might be a perfect fit. ;)

Ok, been thinking about it...not going to do the large radius Apillar. Instead i'm going to sheet metal the other side of the Apillar. I'll toss in a tube from the bpillar to the roof, and be done with it.

Only problem this weekend is I ran out of welding wire :(

Ok, been thinking about it...not going to do the large radius Apillar. Instead i'm going to sheet metal the other side of the Apillar. I'll toss in a tube from the bpillar to the roof, and be done with it.

Only problem this weekend is I ran out of welding wire :(

How many lbs of wire have you used?

I'm not sure b/c I did some welding on stuff off the car, as well as a lot of stuff thats not been used.

I'd say 10lbs for the entire cage, base plates, and seam welding. A lot is wasted, so it is probably is less.

Today was basically a bust...we had a little prancing horse club get together at Driving Impressions, and after that I had to get mig wire...and by the time i got situated in the garage, it was time to go (bachelor party/dinner).

I did get the two support bars in from the center main hoop bpillar node to the roof, also got the Bpillar gussets done (just have to weld them in). I'm working on the two backside gussets on the apillars, right side net, window net, and i'm going to also make my bead seat tomorrow.

Pics tomorrow night, hopefully i can get a solid 12 hours in tomorrow and crank out all this stuff, prepare for the engine this week, and get ready for painting next weekend. Then assembly time :0

IMO, you've covered it pretty well! lol
I had them on my e36. Great looking, but weight up high in the car is the worst!

In any car that has to meet a specific weight, they might be worth the effort, but in Mod, I would think your "overkill" description might be a perfect fit. ;)

Define overkill...a considerable increase in chassis rigidity and safety from A-pillar collapse wouldn't be overkill in my book.

Of course, it's up to those who know more than me to determine whether they provide those advantages. There has certainly been some work done here on the boards to suggest they are beneficial. A quick look around the paddock in everything from ALMS to World Rally shows that everyone is experimenting with various styles of A-pillar reinforcements these days. It's literally the largest hole in most any cage and by it's nature, it's untriangulated.

Is it necessary? No. Are there some definite advantages? I think so. The weight added by the purely sheet metal gussets (no tubes) on our car is minimal.

Define overkill...a considerable increase in chassis rigidity and safety from A-pillar collapse wouldn't be overkill in my book.

Of course, it's up to those who know more than me to determine whether they provide those advantages. There has certainly been some work done here on the boards to suggest they are beneficial. A quick look around the paddock in everything from ALMS to World Rally shows that everyone is experimenting with various styles of A-pillar reinforcements these days. It's literally the largest hole in most any cage and by it's nature, it's untriangulated.

Is it necessary? No. Are there some definite advantages? I think so. The weight added by the purely sheet metal gussets (no tubes) on our car is minimal.


I'm not certain.... I have not read any of the rule books for the series you've mentioned. But, I think that most (if not all) of them require cars to meet some sort of minimum weight requirement. Clearly some of them require specific safety requirements that are above and beyond what any of the club racing sanctioning bodies require. If they require participants to meet a minimum weight, there is absolutely no harm from the added weight to help the rigidity to prevent twisting of those heavy chassis. The minimum tubing requirements are based on weight of the chassis for a reason...the heavier the car, the more strength needed. So, it is somewhat of a paradox... If the massive cage makes the car heavy enough, even more cage is required or if the cage follows the general basic design and the car is significantly lighter as a result...the car does not need as much cage strength. I didn't make this up, the tubing details are listed along with the weights in several rule books. ;)

1. Up to 1500 lbs.
a. 1.375” x 0.095” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless
2. 1501 - 2200 lbs.
a. 1.500” x 0.095” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless
b. 1.500” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages after 07/01/03) *Note- Specifications listed for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.
3. 2201 - 3000 lbs.
a. 1.500” x 0.120” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless
b. 1.750” x 0.095” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless
c. 1.750” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages after 07/01/03) *Note- Specifications listed for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.
4. 3001 - 4000 lbs.
a. 1.750” x .120” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless.
b. No ERW allowed.
5. Over 4000 lbs.
a. 2.000” x 0.120” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless.
b. No ERW allowed.

As for what's printed in the rulebooks... In BMW CCA Club Racing Mod classes, there is nothing in the written rules specifically permitting anything blocking the door windows and we are permitted to get our cars as light as they can possibly be. So, I'm not at all sold on the theory that there is any improvement whatsoever coming from the downsized window openings that some folks have experimented with or that they are actually legal now that the rules and interpretation has changed so much in recent years. :confused

Furthermore, I believe it is absolutely absurd for onasled's lexan vent windows in the mini to be declared illegal for safety reasons concerning egress yet they clearly don't limit egress nearly as severely as some of the cage designs that we've seen. They both have the exact same issue concerning not being specifically permitted by the rulebook. :eyecrazy

You are right that it is not necessary. You have plenty of rea$on$ to promote the cage de$ign in your dad'$ car a$ the utmo$t becau$e your $pon$or/team i$ the de$igner/con$ructor of $aid cage. Do you have any firm data on just how much the handling benefits from the added weight or that your ability to get out of the car as fast as you might otherwise be able to if the entire window opening was available to use (like the cage design drawing in the rulebook) in the (hopefully NEVER necessary) event of an emergency? :eek:

BTW Bryan, the "overkill" quote was originally from Steve. I offered my support of his opinion and now I wonder why you chose to quote my post rather than his? :confused

Furthermore, I believe it is absolutely absurd for onasled's lexan vent windows in the mini to be declared illegal for safety reasons concerning egress yet they clearly don't limit egress nearly as severely as some of the cage designs that we've seen. They both have the exact same issue concerning not being specifically permitted by the rulebook. :eyecrazy

Have you read the rulebook lately? Specifically allowed...

C. MODIFIED and SUPER MODIFIED - cage construction is free provided it complies with the basic structure outlined in Appendix A. The cage attach points and number of attach points are free.
A. Any number of additional reinforcing bars/braces are permitted within the structure of the cage provided that they meet all the installation, weld quality and material/bend specifications. Installation of additional reinforcing bars/braces does not allow for removal of any required bar/brace/hoop and does not allow for alterations in these.Not only that, but VERY similar designs are VERY specifically allowed because Motorsport cages are specifically mentioned as being legal.

I agree that the little windows SHOULD be allowed, however, the rules do not specifically allow them and thus a rule change would be required. That is nothing like a cage, where the gussets ARE specifically allowed by the rules. We've gotta play by the rules, right? They may be silly, but they are the rules. I suspect one of us will submit for a rules change on this one.

You are right that it is not necessary. You have plenty of rea$ to promote the cage de in your dad'$ car a$ the utmo becau your /team i$ the de/con of cage.

Yeah. I'm getting all sorts of kick backs for talking up a cage design that multiple professional and factory backed racing efforts are using. I think Barry bought me a beer last time we were at the track together and he's ordering some parts for me for my M5. In fact, let me get one more plug in, othewise, he probably won't order them on Monday. :rolleyes

Do you have any firm data on just how much the handling benefits from the added weight or that your ability to get out of the car as fast as you might otherwise be able to if the entire window opening was available to use (like the cage design drawing in the rulebook) in the (hopefully NEVER necessary) event of an emergency? :eek:No more data than you have on the specific handling benefits of the 5-6 pounds you saved compared to the rigidity you don't have. I do have data to show how the gussets help to contribute to the overall rigidity of the car for a very small tradeoff in weight though. Believe it or not, things on our car were actually thought about, designed, and then built.

I have no trouble getting out the car. The gusset doesn't impede me at all.

If we're only going by the cage design drawn in the rule book, I guess you'll be cutting out all of the extra bars and gussets in your cage to get legal as well? I don't see those shown in the picture either. You have more door bars than the picture shows, right? It would be easier to get out of the car without your additional door bars, right? By your own argument, those door bars aren't specifically allowed to make it harder to get out of the car and don't appear in the picture and thus shouldn't be allowed.

Come on Mike, that's an awful argument. If you intend to apply that argument to one gusset, you would need to apply it to all tubes and gussets not shown in the drawing. However, other tubes and gussets are specifically allowed in the rules and the drawing obviously is meant to represent the bare minimum.

Kinda OT, but from Bryan's post/rule book:
"A. Any number of additional reinforcing bars/braces are permitted within the structure of the cage provided that they meet all the installation, weld quality and material/bend specifications. Installation of additional reinforcing bars/braces does not allow for removal of any required bar/brace/hoop and does not allow for alterations in these."

I know last year it was clarified that tube gussets did not have to be the same tube diameter and/or thickness as the required bars. Is that still true, or must all tubes(even tube gussets not required) be the required size(1.75x.095 in most cases)?

Greg - No need for a clarification the way the rules currently read. The rule says material and bend...it makes no mention of size. Here's the sections about material, size, and bending:

2. Bends

A. None of the tubing may show any signs of crimping or wall failure. All bends must be Mandrel type. The center radius of the bends may not be less than three (3) times the outside diameter of the roll cage tubing.

16. Roll Cage Tubing Specifications

A. Material.

Seamless, or DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) mild steel tubing (SAE 1010, 1020 or 1025) or equivalent, or chromolly steel tubing (SAE 4130) shall be used for all roll cage structures.

B. Size.

For the purposes of determining roll bar tubing sizes, vehicle weight is as raced, WITHOUT fuel and driver. Note: There is an allowance of minus 0.010 inches on all tubing thicknesses. Minimum tubing size for the required tubes of the roll cage is:
1. Up to 1500 lbs.
a. 1.375” x 0.095” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless
2. 1501 - 2200 lbs.
a. 1.500” x 0.095” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless
b. 1.500” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages after 07/01/03) *Note- Specifications listed for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.
3. 2201 - 3000 lbs.
a. 1.500” x 0.120” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless
b. 1.750” x 0.095” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless
c. 1.750” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages after 07/01/03) *Note- Specifications listed for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.
4. 3001 - 4000 lbs.
a. 1.750” x .120” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless.
b. No ERW allowed.
5. Over 4000 lbs.
a. 2.000” x 0.120” DOM/Chromolly/Seamless.
b. No ERW allowed.

17. Bending Allowances

A. If the maximum number of bends is exceeded all components shall be made from the tubing size listed for the next heavier category and must be approved by a BMW CCA Club Racing Technical Steward.

Bryan, while I agree with you, you have to be careful when you look at ALMS style cars. The chassis they are dealing with are substantially more rigid to start with, and usually are using the cage as purely a safety device, not so much keeping the suspension where it should be...they have a chassis that can support it with minimal additional cage work needed.

The data from the apillar/cage thread was not conclusive imo, while I do think it will make a difference, its not very noticeable, and after sitting in the car, with how everything is positioned in my particular car, its going to be something i can live without.

I'm going to put a gusset on each side of the Apillar, and with the roof gusset, its creates a very rigid structure.

If you look at the E92 motorsport design, they have a very small gusset on the Apillar now, and its very far from the apillar (thats b/c the window will rarely get hit in that spot unless its a huge flip and it hits something, the contact points are on the top of the roof and the front of the car). I'm fairly confident this gusset is almost all for roll over safety, and does not contribute much to keeping the suspension points rigid. notice also from the E46 GTR the gussets now only go to the dash bar, not down the vertical tube. Seems like the chassis are getting much more rigid and are allowing the cages to be simpler...hell look at what Porsches have been using for years, now look at the basic stuff in many of the semi/hybrid monocoques racing, with alum and stressed carbon tubs, etc...some pretty rigid frames.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/e92m3gtr.jpg

Greg - No need for a clarification the way the rules currently read. The rule says material and bend...it makes no mention of size. Here's the sections about material, size, and bending:
Ah, ok. I've read the rules so many times that I start second guessing everything.

Another example of the Apilar fully tied in...just another way to create a strong point at the roof. I'll also be putting a small gusset from the Xbrace tube to the apillar, maybe I can get to those tomorrow too...lot on the todo list for tomorrow, better get to bed (Just got home from bachelor party/dinner funfun lol).

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/galcage3.jpg

Have you read the rulebook lately? Specifically allowed...





Not only that, but VERY similar designs are VERY specifically allowed because Motorsport cages are specifically mentioned as being legal.

I agree that the little windows SHOULD be allowed, however, the rules do not specifically allow them and thus a rule change would be required. That is nothing like a cage, where the gussets ARE specifically allowed by the rules. We've gotta play by the rules, right? They may be silly, but they are the rules. I suspect one of us will submit for a rules change on this one.



Yeah. I'm getting all sorts of kick backs for talking up a cage design that multiple professional and factory backed racing efforts are using. I think Barry bought me a beer last time we were at the track together and he's ordering some parts for me for my M5. In fact, let me get one more plug in, othewise, he probably won't order them on Monday. :rolleyes



No more data than you have on the specific handling benefits of the 5-6 pounds you saved compared to the rigidity you don't have. I do have data to show how the gussets help to contribute to the overall rigidity of the car for a very small tradeoff in weight though. Believe it or not, things on our car were actually thought about, designed, and then built.

I have no trouble getting out the car. The gusset doesn't impede me at all.

If we're only going by the cage design drawn in the rule book, I guess you'll be cutting out all of the extra bars and gussets in your cage to get legal as well? I don't see those shown in the picture either. You have more door bars than the picture shows, right? It would be easier to get out of the car without your additional door bars, right? By your own argument, those door bars aren't specifically allowed to make it harder to get out of the car and don't appear in the picture and thus shouldn't be allowed.

Come on Mike, that's an awful argument. If you intend to apply that argument to one gusset, you would need to apply it to all tubes and gussets not shown in the drawing. However, other tubes and gussets are specifically allowed in the rules and the drawing obviously is meant to represent the bare minimum.

Those fancy sheet metal gussets look great. But, I've yet to see the first club race car with any sign of metal fatigue from flexing of A Pillar to roof line where these gussets add the rigidity. No stress-fractured broken glass (a tell tale sign that I've yet to see) either. But, I have seen some really basic cages survive rollovers and serious impacts without those basic bare minimum cage design bars bending at all. ;)

I hope NONE of us ever has to put emergency escape speed to the real test. Glad to hear that you can get out of the car when it is upright and undamaged, but please don't insult the intelligence of the folks on this forum with any bs about that much smaller egress space in your dad's car not making it much more difficult for any rescue attempt should there ever be any sort of injury that might prevent the driver from getting out under his/her own power. Please make no mistake, I'm NOT saying that anyone out there would want to try to pull me or anyone else my size out of a much larger opening...only that intentionally limiting the size of the opening is something that definitely makes their job more difficult no matter what size the driver. ;)

I challenge you to provide the details of this data that might prove that there is any "contribution" to the rigidity of the chassis vs saving weight up high in the race car. Why are you talking about my car like it's just twisting and flexing all over the place around the race track, yet it absolutely is not? :nono

Actually, I never challenged having gussets, but only having gussets that block the required to be fully open door windows. The rulebook requires the windows to be down for safety reasons (the same rule that is being quoted against onasled). According to your interpretation of the rules, one could put an unlimited amount of gusset material in the window opening area....yet I believe at some point someone would stand-up and say that's not legal as it impedes egress and therefore a safety concern wouldn't they? :eyecrazy

I didn't realize your dad's car had a Motorsports cage or started life as a Motorsports chassis. If it didn't, I wouldn't think that recent addition to the rules would apply to this case at all. :confused

So, why didn't you choose to attack Steve's description of "overkill" vs using my post supporting his quote? :confused

Another example of the Apilar fully tied in...just another way to create a strong point at the roof. I'll also be putting a small gusset from the Xbrace tube to the apillar, maybe I can get to those tomorrow too...lot on the todo list for tomorrow, better get to bed (Just got home from bachelor party/dinner funfun lol).

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/galcage3.jpg

Tying the cage to the A Pillar with gusset makes a lot more sense to me than limiting egress with a gusset on the inside of the arch from A Pillar to the roof. Once again, I'll say I believe you are on the right path with this design without the "overkill" you described! :D

Mike, you'll like this tidbit of info...i might build an e30 next year for my brother/dad to play with :) Three letters will describe it, D-T-M. I'm also going to be keeping my eyes open in europe, there are some nice cars available with this big DTM following recently. Lots of reproduction parts being made at a reasonable cost.

Mike, you'll like this tidbit of info...i might build an e30 next year for my brother/dad to play with :) Three letters will describe it, D-T-M.

ALRIGHT! Now you're talking about going FAST! :D:D:D

We're in love with the E30, we have an 88 m3 we restored, but its lonely, it needs a racecar twin brother :)

I'm digging these DTm replica cars people are doing lately, they have the tubular front ends, and some pretty trick rear susp is being done now.

Something very basic, nothing crazy, some DTM susp components, good brakes, simple basic powerplant, and a replica paint job...would love to create something like this:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n309/hermannthegerman/Bilder132_resize.jpg

Just to note, since it was mentioned in this thread and another, I'm not sure my side windows have been "deemed" not legal. SCCA has the same side window rules and my car passed tech with no issues here at all. Have not been teched with BMW yet. I might assume that indeed it could pass tech, but just may be an issue for protest at some point if someone didn't like the fact that my little Mini was faster then their car.. ;)

Has your mini been on track yet?

Just to note, since it was mentioned in this thread and another, I'm not sure my side windows have been "deemed" not legal. SCCA has the same side window rules and my car passed tech with no issues here at all. Have not been teched with BMW yet. I might assume that indeed it could pass tech, but just may be an issue for protest at some point if someone didn't like the fact that my little Mini was faster then their car.. ;)

Believe me, I totally agree that it SHOULD be LEGAL. However unfortunate it may be, the RAC's representative to the Rules Committee has not only publicly declared them to be illegal, but the Rules Committee has failed to take any action whatsoever on any rules change that might permit them. :(:(

I realize that the response was to me rather than a racer like yourself that has already built a fine car....that I believe is totally within the rules as they are currently written (especially since the rule book addresses vent windows and makes no special comments that the vent windows it mentions had to be original equipment or on a car that originally came with them AND Mod class rules permit modification to virtually any body panel [which would permit using a door design that included vent windows by definition]. Hopefully, there isn't a single steward in the system that would remotely consider taking any sort of action on something so absurd on a Mod class race car.....regardless of whether or not it gets protested. But, I have submitted the proper Clarification/Rules Change request from my position on the RAC to the Rules Committee (after receiving some limited support within the RAC) and attempt to resolve this absurd issue was unsuccessful. The Rules Committee has determined that it would be too difficult to list any size limitations and/or enforce any such limitations and therefore they did nothing. No changes to the existing text at this time and no official clarification has been issued declaring them within the written rules as I still believe they are. :(:(

It's almost as ridiculous as the lack of response I received to my request for Rules Clarification and subsequent Rules Change Request I submitted a few years back concerning the rolling of fenders in Prepared classes just prior to building my e30 for IP following making several complaints about some of the e36 cars having rolled rear fenders that were basically flares. The response I received was indeed absurd in that it told me that there was no change necessary to the existing text. Fendergate was the result. The text was changed to eliminate the exact same problem I had requested to be resolved before I intentionally pushed the issue beyond what anyone had considered regarding the loophole I was trying to get them to close as I built my car within the confines of that written text, but outside what they perceived to be the limits. The change that I sought initially was the net result, but it took considerable controversy (and $$) to bring it to pass. :(:(

Unfortunately, there seems to be no lesson learned concerning taking action prior to the known loopholes being exploited. [BTW, I don't consider these windows to be exploiting a loophole, but rather simple common sense that they are already permitted in Mod] Evidently, I have a knack for finding loopholes within the written text of the rules (like plenty of other RACERS). I've shared several of them with the RAC and Rules Committee members over the years as I've discovered them. A very limited few have been addressed, but the majority have been swept under the carpet since no one has yet exploited them and the attitude that we'll address the issues as the come up. An example of such has taken place this season concerning engine swaps. I specifically warned the CRAC about this specific issue long ago. The RAC has had several discussions concerning the desire to eliminate additional engine swap issues BEFORE other cars are built that might subsequently require some sort of competitive adjustment, but there does not seem to be any desire to find solutions to problems that don't yet physically exist by the other members of the Rules Committee (who, like any other volunteer, are busy people that don't want to "waste" their valuable time on something that does not yet exist). :(:(:(

I personally believe the racers (through RAC) need a greater presence on the Rules Committee. I'm not advocating that RAC control the majority vote on the RC, but I think it would benefit the club greatly if the RAC had three representatives to the Rules Committee rather than one. That way, in the event of a 3-3 tie vote, the Chairperson of BMW CCA Club Racing has the tiebreaker vote. This would give the issues like these concerning the racers/club members a better chance to be heard without upsetting the balance of "power" making it a lot more difficult to sweep important issues under the carpet until the problems physically exist. Then, maybe we can fix some things like those vent windows without so much controversy and confusion concerning legality! ;););)

Has your mini been on track yet?
Five more days and I'm there, ... I hope. If not then absolutly on the 14th

Five more days and I'm there, ... I hope. If not then absolutly on the 14th

Sweet, can't wait to see the vids :)

I'm still in the garage...13 hour day in the garage, made a lot of progress.

I finished the Bpillar gussets, finished the Apillar backside gussets, mounted up the right side net (need to get some 2piece collars), mounted window net, and i also made my beadseat insert. I'll go inside and upload pics in a little bit.

Engine should be coming this week, so I will be able to finish up the cage (engine/tube clearance in engine bay is the holdup). Once those tubes are fully welded, I'll do a couple small tacos on the dash bar to those tubes (MS style) and then the shock tower top plates, and its time to prep for paint. Por15 is local, so I'll grab some stuff from them.

I also am going to try and get Lexan by the weekend, and mount their fasteners/supports.

One picture of the apillars came out out of focus, i'll upload it tomorrow. This is the seat insert, untrimmed. I have to trim it, and cut the hole for the sub straps. It gets covered in Gaffers tape, than nomex. I had to sit there for an hour...so I brought a dvd/tv player in the car and watched Anchorman :)

I'm also finding out if I can make the shoulder harness holes slightly larger (lowering the bottom edge). I can't get high enough in the seat to get clear over the edge of the harness holes without losing side support. I just need about 1/2" off the bottom edge and I'll be good to go.

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-7-08/

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-7-08/main/p4060002.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-7-08/main/p4060005.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-7-08/main/p4060003.jpg

Steve-

I recently installed my center net. In the instructions it stated to NOT have the net angle away from the driver. To have it as parallel to for/aft line as possible. Supposedly causes the head to move downward from sliding along the net.

Jay

Steve-

I recently installed my center net. In the instructions it stated to NOT have the net angle away from the driver. To have it as parallel to for/aft line as possible. Supposedly causes the head to move downward from sliding along the net.

Jay

Yep, but it would be in my way. So i have to mount it where it is. Its either there or not at all...

Yep, but it would be in my way. So i have to mount it where it is. Its either there or not at all...

Jaffster knob too tall? ;)

Jay

Jaffster knob too tall? ;)

Jay

Lol, nah, THE Jaffster is too short :stickoutt

Lol, nah, THE Jaffster is too short :stickoutt

That girl you used to hang with while working at RRT said the same thing.

Some pics from this weekends work, and tonight I finished my bead seat...VERY happy with the outcome, it feels like I am sitting in a gokart seat. I also added a little extra support on my right leg so I don't have to fight to hold my leg in position. Tomorrow night i'm going to get the side impact all setup. I have to cut the sheet metal, weld it in, and then cut the impact to fit and figure out how to mount it to the car. Also ordered lexan from Evosport, and some mounting hardware.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/apillars.jpg

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/bpillar.jpg

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/BSSseat.jpg

We're in love with the E30, we have an 88 m3 we restored, but its lonely, it needs a racecar twin brother :)

I'm digging these DTm replica cars people are doing lately, they have the tubular front ends, and some pretty trick rear susp is being done now.

Something very basic, nothing crazy, some DTM susp components, good brakes, simple basic powerplant, and a replica paint job...would love to create something like this:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n309/hermannthegerman/Bilder132_resize.jpg

If you do this then I will be your new best friend

I've been looking for some ex-dtm cars for sale in europe...people are crazy! $80-100k!!! Maybe I'll just build a simple track car for my brother to play with, something simple and light, maybe a 3.2US motor and fully stripped with a very basic cage.

How about a spec e30?

He won't be racing, just having fun at open track days.

Anyways, back to E46 build...I'm trying to get engine parts on their way for mockup as well, I still need to fab the new exhaust, and see if I can layout the cooling system how I want.

Steve-

I was just reading through this thread:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=843648

and you have a very different opinion about ABS then you do now, basically saying it is a crutch for a poorly set-up car or a bad driver, now you say it is worth 2-3 seconds in the dry. What happened that made you completely change your opinion of ABS?

Steve-

I was just reading through this thread:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=843648

and you have a very different opinion about ABS then you do now, basically saying it is a crutch for a poorly set-up car or a bad driver, now you say it is worth 2-3 seconds in the dry. What happened that made you completely change your opinion of ABS?



He's a little older and wiser! ;)

He's a little older and wiser! ;) Obviously. :)

Steve-

I was just reading through this thread:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=843648

and you have a very different opinion about ABS then you do now, basically saying it is a crutch for a poorly set-up car or a bad driver, now you say it is worth 2-3 seconds in the dry. What happened that made you completely change your opinion of ABS?

Very different...no, but after talking further with some pro's who have used the motorsport systems in the proper application (and when allowed) it is obviously advantageous, but it will not improve braking, it can merely get you closer to the edge more consistently. The cars potential is the same, its the consistency it gets you...and that is where it compensates for the lack of driver skill. Pretty much the same thing I have always thought/said, merely in a different viewpoint.

Don't forget there are different applications...a top 10 driver in the world will not gain as much from it as a club racer (assuming its setup properly in both cases). Only a very very very small percent of the drivers (amatuer/pro) have the skill to be as consistent as is required to be in the top levels of pro motorsports. For club racing, it would help a lot, and in many (if not all) pro series as well, just depends on the application/driver/etc.

And as we discussed in depth in one of the other ABS threads, we explained the 2-3 seconds is on average...meaning you become more consistent. instead of having your fastest lap of the session be 2-3 seconds faster than your average...your average lap is 2-3s faster.

I've got a couple hockey games tonight, but I have a couple hours bwteen games, I'll snap some pics of the dead pedal I made last night.

I've been looking for some ex-dtm cars for sale in europe...people are crazy! $80-100k!!! Maybe I'll just build a simple track car for my brother to play with, something simple and light, maybe a 3.2US motor and fully stripped with a very basic cage.

Just buy mine, fast, light, safe and a built 3.0

Just buy mine, fast, light, safe and a built 3.0

Ah...didn't even think of that when we chatted last night. We'll chat on AIM later.

With the current exchange rate I dont think you can even touch anything for under 100K and that is for a run of the mill Group A E30, a car with serious history or a full late model DTM spec car is going to be far more

I'll post some updated pics tomorrow. I'm going to try and get the side impact stuff done tomorrow.

I finished the floor plate in front of the pedals, dead pedal, and am starting to get it ready for final prep before I paint it...still waiting for the motor, had some freight scheduling issues last week, but it should be here this week for sure.

I also got in my new 3" side exhaust tubing/parts, and once the engine and everything is mocked up I can make that.

Electrical panels/misc is also on the way.

Electrical panels/misc is also on the way.

So what did you end up going with for your electrics? I was always planning on using circuit breakers in a paneltronics (marine supplier) panel like what Alex mentioned in the other thread, but after I talked to the OBR guys about their PDU, I got sucked into trying to make that work financially. Probably going to go back to the original plan--KISS on the build/wallet...

So what did you end up going with for your electrics? I was always planning on using circuit breakers in a paneltronics (marine supplier) panel like what Alex mentioned in the other thread, but after I talked to the OBR guys about their PDU, I got sucked into trying to make that work financially. Probably going to go back to the original plan--KISS on the build/wallet...

Yea, I am going to put the money into sticker tires instead :) Only thing I'm working on getting now is the Bosch MS ECU, otherwise everything else is either purchased, or sitting on the shelf ready to be shipped to me. I'll hopefully get the side impact stuff finished tonight, and I ordered the fireproof coating for it this morning.

I ended up getting this one, same thing RRT/Phil use, and they love it.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mor-74180.jpg

OK, finally got some energy and did some work on my own car (had to fit a passenger seat into one of my pop's racecars, pita). Engine is coming tomorrow, so paint is being held off until this weekend. Hopefully the engine comes tomorrow, i can verify the fitment, finish welding those 4 tubes, and start prepping for paint (will take several days...).

Tonight I worked on the side impact stuff. I finished the panels, and stitch welded them in. I made them have a small "shelf" flange on the bottom that connects to the rocker panel. DOW sent me a block of 300 and a block of 700. 300 goes on the outside, 700 on the inside (to help decelerate an impact at varying rates as its speed and displacement is reduced). I got the 700 rough cut done, obviously you can see its just a rough cut with a hot knife. It looks like i can get both blocks between the door and the cage, might just need a hair shaved off the outside top/bottom where the door curves, but it measures 8" throughout, and with each block being 4", it should work out nicely. I also ordered the special fire retardent/protective coating for the foam this morning, might be here tomorrow, so if I can get them cut this week, I'll coat them and they will be ready to go. Still not sure how I'm going to secure them in place...I might just wrap a strap a round them. Nascar just squeezes them between the plate and the body skin.

Oh, also pictured if the dead pedal I added.

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-15-08/

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-15-08/main/p4130001.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-15-08/main/p4130003.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-15-08/main/p4140004.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-15-08/main/p4140005.jpg

Well done! I can't wait to get back to finishing mine.

Looks cool.

Two questions: How much did the steel sheet weigh and how are you going to keep the foam from getting trashed as you enter and exit the car?

I have a question too.

What are you doing about the space left by the foam near the a-pillar? Do you not need any foam there?

Looks cool.

Two questions: How much did the steel sheet weigh and how are you going to keep the foam from getting trashed as you enter and exit the car?

Total weight on the steel (its thin) is maybe 4lbs. Its welded in as a shear panel, so it can be pretty thin. Nascar uses a special ballistics composite sheet that is bolted their cage, and coated with the special coating.

The foam gets coated with this fire retardent stuff, and it helps protect it. There is also a 3M product that is like a truck bed liner (and undercoating) that they suggested i can try, but i'm going to see how the fire retardant stuff works first (its $$). Maybe I'll cover it in nomex?

Also, thats only rough cut, its going to be trimmer and slightly angled so i won't bang into it as much when getting in/out. Also, I'm pretty flexible, I can clear it while getting in the car no prob :)

I have a question too.

What are you doing about the space left by the foam near the a-pillar? Do you not need any foam there?

Yes, I'll be filling that in. I just started, and I only got that one piece rough cut so far.

Hey, great job with the build. Looks fantastic!

Why not a thin layer of fiberglass or carbon/kevlar over the foam? That would protect it and be lightweight (not to mention look like a factory backed raced car:cool)


Also, I'm pretty flexible, I can clear it while getting in the car no prob :)

That's not what she said...

Lol, The Office last week was great.

I actually just got in a new type of carbon fiber to try, its a thermoplastic prepreg carbon. It can be formed with heat (and preferably vacuum)...but the best part is that it can be REFORMED! Pretty amazing stuff.

Its too difficult to form carbon to this block, since the outer face is all contoured to fit the inside of the door.

I'll coat it and see how it is. Depending on how heavy the final version is...I might even secure it into the door, so it won't be in the way at all when getting into or out of the car.

Engine should be here any minute wahoo :)

I was wondering how they measure energy absorption for that stuff? What's the expected reduction in impulse energy to the driver?

I assume there are lots of variable, and I am not familiar with any standard test that's used. All I know is once they got the initial catching on fire issue solved in nascar, they are big fans of the safety feature.

Big Thanks to DiffsOnline (www.diffsonline.com) they got my motor to me without any issues. Double pallet, strapped, and wrapped. Engine is super clean, and I can start getting all the sensors and parts bolted up to it.

I fitted the motor, and the cage is all good, lots of clearance, so time to finish welding it in, and paint this focker. I'm working on getting the exhaust components (manifold, turbo, WG), and I'm going to fab up the exhaust.

I need to get it off the rotisserie and get the suspension mounted, then get it on the lift (need to get that delivered/installed too lol). Plus I'm going to buy a lathe this week (small 10x22) basically just to make suspension and misc bits.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/enginearrival.JPG

Finished the cage, wahoo! All I have to do is clean up some spots with some thin sheet metal to cover some holes, and prep this baby for paint.

I'm about 50% done with the foam cutting. I'm doing rough cuts, and then will smooth it out, and coat it (maybe tomorrow night if I can get to it).

Ordering lathe on monday, and if i don't have too many hiccups, I could possibly have a rolling chassis next weekend.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/shocktowers.JPG

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/shocktowers2.JPG

looking great steve. You can see that your really 'flowing' along now. :alright
Think it will make a track this season?

I've got some track days I'll be at no matter what (doing some playing with my dads toys), but I'm hoping to have it out in July on the track for testing, doubtful I can make any race events this year...maybe some local stuff to make licensing easier for scca/etc.

It should move pretty quick after paint, the assembly is pretty straight forward. The real challenge is getting the engine sorted...but even that Evosport is helping me tremendously with and is providing a lot of stuff pre-made off existing cars they run, so its fairly "bolt on" at this point. Only things to fab are a couple mounts for things like kill switch, fire bottle misc, switch panel, and there's not much to the car otherwise lol

I also went to POR-15 this morning and picked up this single part paint called Flexcote, after talking with them it should work well. Its a semi-glossy white, but he said the glare is not bad. I was going to do the 2-part hardnose and spray it on, but this single part Flexcote should be easier to make look good and stand tough. I'm going to be using an HVLP paintgun.

Jacked from another thread...


I'm going over to Por15 in a couple minutes to pickup everything I need to paint my car. They have a new single part product called FlexCote, it looks promising. I think i'm going biting the bullet and going white.

They recommend the Primer/Base Coat first then the topcoat... Are you going to do a base + topcoat?

They recommend the Primer/Base Coat first then the topcoat... Are you going to do a base + topcoat?

The guys there told me this single Flexcote does not need a primer, just clean everything and do two coats.

Btw: First major delay...Lathe is not available for FIVE weeks :( This sucks. I have too many things to make to make outsourcing worthwhile. I guess I have a lot of time to get the car built on jackstands...

man you going have fun painting the inside/cage.......by far the suckiest part. I just finished my buddies e36 paint job on his interior/cage......

we would swap between me and him every once in awhile as you get into some weird positions and spraying with one hand the gun gets heavy real fast!

having a swivel on the airhose attachment helps alot in some positions.....

Spraying/painting is fun!
Spraying/painting inside with a cage not so much!

man you going have fun painting the inside/cage.......by far the suckiest part. I just finished my buddies e36 paint job on his interior/cage......

we would swap between me and him every once in awhile as you get into some weird positions and spraying with one hand the gun gets heavy real fast!

having a swivel on the airhose attachment helps alot in some positions.....

Spraying/painting is fun!
Spraying/painting inside with a cage not so much!


I have the car on a rotisserie :) The hardest part will be prep and putting up some really high walls around the car so spray does not go everywhere in the garage...the exhaust fan is fairly close, and its a ridiculously powerful exhaust (it literally creates a vacuum in 3 seconds in a 100,000+ cubic foot garage!). Once the fan is on, you can barely open any doors to the garage, and air is pulled through every tiny inch of the building...its scary. The prep will definitely take a solid 20x longer than the actual painting. I'll prob spray the engine bay as well, and maybe the underside too. I got enough Flexcote to cover 50sf four times...so it should be able to do two coats. I have not used this HVLP gun yet, we found it in one of the tool closets still in the box lol So I have to make sure i have the right nozzles and whatnot.

Speaking of the rotisserie...it will be for sale in a couple weeks if anyone in the NJ/NY/CT area wants it.

Finished the cage, wahoo!

You missed a few welds. I'll tell you where after it goes to paint.

LOL - now that is funny!

Riiight.

Just picked up some painting supplies, time to prep this thing!

Riiight.

Just picked up some painting supplies, time to prep this thing!

Have you figured out what you are using to paint the underside and inside? Let me know because I haven't decided yet.

*Edit* Nevermind. I missed the previous post today.

Btw: First major delay...Lathe is not available for FIVE weeks :( This sucks. I have too many things to make to make outsourcing worthwhile. I guess I have a lot of time to get the car built on jackstands...

Poor guy...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/81/240220649_570809b13c.jpg

Just kidding. Glad to see it coming together.

The guys there told me this single Flexcote does not need a primer, just clean everything and do two coats.

Right off their website talking about flexcote..."Our new single component topcoat for use over POR-15 Rust Preventive Paint® or other painted and primed surfaces."

Right off their website talking about flexcote..."Our new single component topcoat for use over POR-15 Rust Preventive Paint® or other painted and primed surfaces."
Do not doubt teh Jaffstar and his infinite knowledge. ;)

A brush on paint sure sounds good right about now(goes back to taping off interior).

Flexcote is not a new product, its merely a marketing strategy "rebranding" as it used to have "yacht" in the title, and everyone thought it was only for marine applications. I was at por-15 and spoke to the guys there for a while, deciding what was best for my application. They said as long as I get all the debri off and clean it (I got some of their degreaser, good stuff), it should be no problem. The temperature started coming up this week (actually was above 80 today...damn global warming) so it should be good conditions for paint.

I just got in from a long night of work, got a bunch of tabs/mounts done (switch panel, bias knob, killswitch, brake/clutch reservoirs), did a quickie project making a door handle, and started getting everything ready to prep. I might not get to painting until monday night, but we'll see how the weekend goes. I know I'm going to have to weld a bunch of small tabs and stuff in places, but it'll just take some spray can touch uping :)

If you want to use the 2part, the hardnose light gray is pretty good stuff, but a bit more difficult to apply with good results compared to the single coat. You can brush on, but i'd rather try the HVLP gun.

Well, its no Bassen job, but it definitely passes the 10' test :) Its a project car and I learned a lot of do's/dont's about HVLP spraying. Some drips, but its ok, its a racecar not a showcar, and the 10' test it looks pretty decent. Assembly starts this weekend.

I am getting my Turbo system spec'd/built by Gary at Evosport, and Brad is putting together a clutch package using their Hydrualic Release bearing adapter, it should make for a mighty little package. Big Thanks to Evosport (And Holder/Lagoni :)) for passing along all the experience they have gained from their turbo racecars.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/paint1.JPG

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/paint2.JPG

Oh, and here is why I've been a little slow this week, I have been playing my new baby brother...he's a viscous killer!

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/izzy2.JPG

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/izzy3.JPG

omg that dog is so cute.

Hehe Thx. He's teething right now, and toes are on the top of his list lol He has a fierce bite, already drew blood from two people! He's fun to play with, we just need to get him trained (he's a baby).

As for the car, I'm going to start assembling some stuff after I do the final paint touch up tomorrow evening, drop the fuel cell in, start getting the drivetrain ready (install new wheel bearings, etc), probably can mount the shocks, and start getting the hardware setup.

I'm also going to be getting ready to do the roof, I just have to make sure I have everything done before I bond it in...b/c once its in, its IN! First the car has to come off the rotisserie though.

Anyone want a rotisserie in the NJ/NY area? :)

Well, shes off the rotisserie and on jack stands! Center jack point already came in handy :) The black/white reminds me of when PTG brought the GTR chassis back to Rolex and had the black/white scheme for testing.

I have some small projects to finish up, but am mostly waiting for my turbo/clutch parts to arrive so i can drop the trans/motor in. I'm also deciding at what point to install the roof. Since the lexan mounts through the roof flange, I have to see if its easier to do ti after its installed. basically just drill a couple holes, and install/rivet the floating nut to the inner flange.

I think I might get the Side impact foam done this weekend, and button that project up as well.

Can't get any drivetrain/suspension in just yet, but by the end of may I should have everything in place and ready to wire it up (hopefully). June will be to finalize everything, do some of the aero projects, and button up the car...then onto tuning and some test days in July. Not sure if I can make any of the BMWCCA races this year, but trying hard to get as many test days as possible...hopefully getting down to NJMP as well at the end of the year.

Ok, starting to mock everything up and get stuff bolted back onto the car. I got the steering, seat, battery, and the impact foam module finished (the foam itself anyways). I'm partially done coating the foam, it'll be finished tomorrow. Waiting on some drivetrain parts to get the trans/engine bolted in, and need to finish pressing in some solid mounts on the subframe to get the rear drivetrain back in. I need the lathe to finish some spherical bearing cups for the rear trailing arm, but once those are done it'll be ready to bolt up (after new wheel bearings). The Roof is not installed yet, I'm waiting for a mixing nozzle and then I think i'm going to install it.

Some shots from tonight. http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-28-08

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-28-08/main/p4270001.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-28-08/main/p4270003.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-28-08/main/p4270004.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-28-08/main/p4270005.jpg

Looks great Steve :) I'm loving the white interior with the black exterior. I'm really enjoying watching it progress :thumbup:

Yea, at 10' it looks awesome. Some drips when you look close, but I'll just call it part of the artistic custom Jaffster paint job :) Not bad for doing it in a ghetto plastic sheet booth with no downdraft...on the rotisserie its tough to not get drips as I was rotating the chassis constantly to get to different spots.

Oh, and I also forgot to mention I got the entire trans/exhaust tunnel on the underside of the car covered with HeatShieldproducts Mat, as well as the firewall and engine bay where the exhaust/turbo is located. I am waiting for another small sheet to to the topside of the exhaust tunnel in the passenger side of the cockpit.

I got the white/black idea from when PTG brought back the GTR chassis and it was in white/black colors for testing.

Nice Steve. Really looking great.

Finished the cage, wahoo! All I have to do is clean up some spots with some thin sheet metal to cover some holes, and prep this baby for paint.

I'm about 50% done with the foam cutting. I'm doing rough cuts, and then will smooth it out, and coat it (maybe tomorrow night if I can get to it).

Ordering lathe on monday, and if i don't have too many hiccups, I could possibly have a rolling chassis next weekend.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/shocktowers.JPG

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/shocktowers2.JPG

Those are the "money shots" :buttrock

Did you use footing plates where the tubing meets the shock tower, or did you weld the tubing directly to the factory sheetmetal?

Your paint choice is interesting...been down that road myself. :)

Those are the "money shots" :buttrock

Did you use footing plates where the tubing meets the shock tower, or did you weld the tubing directly to the factory sheetmetal?

Your paint choice is interesting...been down that road myself. :)

Direct to the shock tower. Thick metal on the E46, I did not feel it was necassary....it would only be as strong as the shock tower anyways. PLus, with that large reinforcement plate on the top, its pretty solid.

I wanted to try something different, and its working well so far. Its cleaning up VERY easily, and is very hard (can't scratch it off easily).

Its amazing what a coat of paint does for aesthetics. Looking great Steve, love the color scheme too!

-Dino

Its amazing what a coat of paint does for aesthetics. Looking great Steve, love the color scheme too!

-Dino

If I had the patience and skill/experience guys like Bassen do, it would be great at 10", but at even 5' it looks pretty good for my first HVLP in such a "ghetto" paint booth, i'm pleased...plus entire thing was like $200, including paint and materials.

Tonight I worked on the foam a little more, almost done coating it. I'm ordering some PVC Sheet to mold on top of it to protect it from getting banged up. I got the pedals, floor plate, and remote reservoirs bolted up as well.

I also mounted the electric power steering pump in the engine bay, its pretty cool, very simple, its pretty slick. The pump unit has a locating "leg" sticking out the bottom, so I welded a small vertical tube and put a rubber isolating spacer in it. So the pump sits on this locating ring, and then has two small screws that hold it to a small tab i welded to the firewall. Very small, lightweight, strong, and it fits nicely inside the drivers shock tower cage tubes. Its important to keep it as close as possible to the steering rack with these pumps.

Pics tomorrow.

Here is the 99% finished side impact panel. I have a 48"x24" piece of plastic coming that I'm going to try and form over the top to create a surface that can take some impacts from getting in/out of the car. Its a thin 1/8" sheet, so it should be relatively easy to form but will give a decent amount of protection. I think I might just velcro the block in place because its wedged in when the door closes, so it's not going anywhere. Still working on the final "fastening down" plan...but thats no biggie.

Also some pics of the steering pump mount.

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-30-08/main/pump1.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-30-08/main/pump2.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-30-08/main/side.jpg

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-30-08/main/sidetop.jpg

That foam is pretty cool. Something I am going to need to do for sure.

The inner block is Impaxx 700, the outer foam is Impaxx 300. Different densities with different decelerations. Large displacement is the outer layer, and then its a denser layer behind it. Its tough to work with, and I had to just call it a day and leave it as is. tried using a belt sander to smooth out some areas, it kind of worked, but was super dusty/messy. The coating is pretty cool, and is heavy but its not bad. The entire impact module is only a couple lbs.

Yeah, this stuff is tough to work with. But, living with intact limbs is cool.

Using a hot knife works well actually, but its hard to get complex curves or concave shapes...thats where the sanders come in - just make sure there is a big vacuum on nearby :) The dust is very fine and gets EVERYWHERE! The total thickness is about 7" at the thickest point, and the majority of the panel (where there are a full two layers) is 6".

Thats pretty cool. We are using a similar foam on our SAE car, for the drivers cradle. Is that the finished product? I wonder if you cold attach it to the door, so you don't see it when the door is open.

Because of how the door jam is situated, it needs to stay on the car. As it sits, its pretty much out of the way. Once the car is on the ground, I don't think it will get touched much, especially once the plastic shield is on.

What do you mean the drivers cradle? You should be using a beadseat for the drivers cradle, this kind of foam (or anything similar) is not a very good choice for a seat cradle.

This is the beadseat insert I made for my seat:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-7-08/main/p4060005.jpg

The inner block is Impaxx 700, the outer foam is Impaxx 300. Different densities with different decelerations. Large displacement is the outer layer, and then its a denser layer behind it. Its tough to work with, and I had to just call it a day and leave it as is. tried using a belt sander to smooth out some areas, it kind of worked, but was super dusty/messy. The coating is pretty cool, and is heavy but its not bad. The entire impact module is only a couple lbs.

Steve,

Did the OEM specify any particular adhesive for bonding the two together, or will 'liquid nails' work?

Didn't see any info here
http://automotive.dow.com/materials/products/impaxx/index.htm
or here:
Product Sheet (http://www.dow.com/PublishedLiterature/dh_007e/0901b8038007e5f3.pdf?filepath=automotive/pdfs/noreg/299-51012.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc)

Hi, Sorry for the delay, was in Florida for the weekend at my couz's wedding. Too friggin hot down there!

I just used super 77...i'm not concerned with it igniting, there is so much else too ignite, its not a hazard.

Here are some pics of the impact module finished. It slides into a pocket between the cage and door frame, and is compressed between the door skin...so no fasteners needed. I covered the center section with Nomex to reduce the wear&tear, it looks pretty good. I tried some plastic, but was concerned it could become a sharp object pointed directly at me in the event of a side impact...so I ditched that idea.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/SideImpact.JPG


I also finished the heatshielding. Waiting on some parts to come in, some machine work I have to get done locally before my Lathe arrives, and I'm also making the rear bulkhead panel again, cleaner this time. This is the closest I can get the right side net, and i'm not sure if its far enough now either...so we'll see once the shifter is in place (which hopefully will be soon, just need the clutch to arrive and I can get the trans/engine in).

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/Interior.JPG

If you're worried about reaching under the net to get to the shifter I think you'll get used to it pretty quickly. Unless the shifter is too tall. I'm pretty sure my net is left of my shifter by a few inches.

Jay

This is not a standard seat/shifter arrangement, nor a standard driver height/reach. Its just a special circumstance where its very difficult to get positioned comfortably and still have the right side net attempt to do something worthwhile.

We'll see once the trans/shifter is in. The problem before was I could not even get my arm over to shift, as it would hit the net, but i moved the net up a bit and now it clears, but i think it'll still be in the way.

Quick update, not too much doing. I'm collecting parts and tools, waiting for Lathe (another 3 weeks...), and I have a TON of parts coming in from Evosport. Lexan, Turbo everything, wheel bearings, wing, clutch, Evosport HRB, etc.

I got in my fuel filler stuff, made the mounting plate, cut the access hole in the trunk lid, and just need to do some welding, slap some paint on it, done.

I'm also doing the sheet metal panels closing engine bay from the cockpit (engine side and cockpit side...both will be insulated on both sides to try to keep the turbo heat out of the cockpit. Same with the side exhaust, I insulated the top and bottom.

The rear bulkhead I'm still working on, trying to make it one peice straight across, I'm about half done with the template, but still need to get some materials in.

Keep posted though, once these parts come in everything should be coming together pretty quickly.

Care to share your opinion/review of the DVI2?

Its my first big Mig welder, and I have zero complaints. Took me some practice to get back upto speed with MIG welding techniques after doing nothing but Tig for a couple years, but I feel comfortable Mig'n everything now.

The machine works great on 110v, and the universal plug system is very handy. Its built in cart is great, very heavy duty. Gun and drive system are top notch Miller high qualiuty. Its a classic Miller, it just works :)

Roof is going on Monday night, clamps and structural adhesive is ready to go!

Fuel Fill is finished, came out pretty nice. I'll probably cut the access hole in the carbon trunk smaller to hide the bolt heads. I'm not sure what to do with the stock gas tank door...i'm thinking just bolt it shut and leave it. I might add drybreak down the road, its $500 to do it, and I don't really need it right now.

Probably will just use 4 standard hood pins to mount the trunk.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/fuelfill.JPG

Get the dry break ... once you use one, you'll never go back. So much nicer than holding a big jug for 3 minutes!

I'd just leave the old fuel door as is for now, then when it's time to repaint fiberglass or weld it shut.

I assume the slot in your quarter panel is for the wing mounting?

Get the dry break ... once you use one, you'll never go back. So much nicer than holding a big jug for 3 minutes!

Yea, we use them on the challenge cars as they come from the factory with them. I made the fuel fill setup so I can bolt in a drybreak female port at a later time. Its an easy swap, I just have to make sure the fuel cell can handle 2 gallons a second lol

I'd just leave the old fuel door as is for now, then when it's time to repaint fiberglass or weld it shut.

I assume the slot in your quarter panel is for the wing mounting?

No fiberglass needed, 280's fit under stock fenders.

Correct on the slot :D

Fuel Fill is finished, came out pretty nice. I'll probably cut the access hole in the carbon trunk smaller to hide the bolt heads. I'm not sure what to do with the stock gas tank door...i'm thinking just bolt it shut and leave it. I might add drybreak down the road, its $500 to do it, and I don't really need it right now.

Probably will just use 4 standard hood pins to mount the trunk.

Is you wing mount going to block access to the fuel filler?

Any reason you choose to put the filler on the right instead of the left? I guess at VIR that's the side you'd fill on, but other than VIR, Mosport and Road America, I can't think of any other tracks I frequent where the pit wall isn't on the left. I'd like to put mine in the center so it's a non-issue, but I think my wing mount will block access.

Any reason you choose to put the filler on the right instead of the left? I guess at VIR that's the side you'd fill on, but other than VIR, Mosport and Road America, I can't think of any other tracks I frequent where the pit wall isn't on the left. I'd like to put mine in the center so it's a non-issue, but I think my wing mount will block access.

Thunderhill = 25Hrs of Thunderhill :alright

Is you wing mount going to block access to the fuel filler?

Any reason you choose to put the filler on the right instead of the left? I guess at VIR that's the side you'd fill on, but other than VIR, Mosport and Road America, I can't think of any other tracks I frequent where the pit wall isn't on the left. I'd like to put mine in the center so it's a non-issue, but I think my wing mount will block access.

Wing mount will not block it, it curves out of the way.

I went on the right b/c of how the fill plate is setup. Summit is on the right, limerock is on the right, NJMP I believe is on the right, and I think WG might be on the right too (can't remember).

Center cannot work if you have a wing...unless you are 8' tall and can lift it over the wing, but thats sketchy.

If this was GAC GS where there was no wing, definitely in the center of the trunk.

I was thinking about putting a mount on each side, but its not worth it. This will work just fine.

BMW Motorsport actually makes (or made) drybreak for E46's on the top of the trunk for both sprint and enduro setups. the 100L enduro setup had a dual inlet setup, one on each side of the trunk top. Thats where I got my idea to do on the top...plus my wing goes down behing the fender so it would block any side fill design.

Wing mount will not block it, it curves out of the way.

I went on the right b/c of how the fill plate is setup. Summit is on the right, limerock is on the right, NJMP I believe is on the right, and I think WG might be on the right too (can't remember).

All tracks I haven't been to (yet) so that explains it...


Center cannot work if you have a wing...unless you are 8' tall and can lift it over the wing, but thats sketchy.

Not over the wing, but under the the license plate ares with a 45^ bend at the end of the dump can. Given the tracks I run, I'll probably end up putting it in a similar location, just on the right.

I like where it is mounted on a lot of the GrandAM GT cars:

Not over the wing, but under the the license plate ares with a 45^ bend at the end of the dump can. Given the tracks I run, I'll probably end up putting it in a similar location, just on the right.

My wing is in the way :stickoutt

My wing is in the way :stickoutt

Mine will likely be too, unless I have a _really_ long lower leg of dump can. :)

Because of how the door jam is situated, it needs to stay on the car. As it sits, its pretty much out of the way. Once the car is on the ground, I don't think it will get touched much, especially once the plastic shield is on.

What do you mean the drivers cradle? You should be using a beadseat for the drivers cradle, this kind of foam (or anything similar) is not a very good choice for a seat cradle.

This is the beadseat insert I made for my seat:

http://jaffster.com/E46M3/4-7-08/main/p4060005.jpg

Jaffman,

Is that your Reynold's racing seat? I like the butt heat shield...

Jaffman,

Is that your Reynold's racing seat? I like the butt heat shield...

I thought it was a booster seat :confused

Its just a beadseat that gets me in the proper position. The seat is made for a "european" sized driver, but they put the harness slots too high (smaller torso than avg?) so I needed to get up a bit.

As for the fuel fill on the back...my wing is about 12" farther back than the one on that Vette.

Roof is on the car curing :)

looks good, can't wait to see the final product.

is it safe to say that tying the cage into the front strut towers precludes the need for foot protection in the footwells?

also, how many of your body panels will be composite, and what do you estimate the final weight will be?

Right now in "phase 1" the only carbon panel is the roof.

"Phase 2" will have carbon trunk skin, hood, and doors. Front/rear fenders are fine, and thats all the body panels really. Stock bumpers are light enough.

I'm unsure on the weight, but I'm hoping after the carbon panels are on i'm well under 2500.

Realistically the car will be fast enough, way faster than I am capable of at this point...so driver potential has to meet cars potential.

I'm pretty sure the tubes going to shock tower are counted as foot protection.

is it safe to say that tying the cage into the front strut towers precludes the need for foot protection in the footwells?

As long as you use a bar from the bottom of the A-pillar up to the strut tower, I would assume so. It's the bar that our foot rest attaches to, so it would seem to be well located for intrusion protection into the foot area.

is it safe to say that tying the cage into the front strut towers precludes the need for foot protection in the footwells?


Not when the tire is shoved into the footwell, it isn't.

Not when the tire is shoved into the footwell, it isn't.

Can you elaborate on this? The E46 has a lot of metal by your feet, and with these two bars there it would provide sufficient leg/foot support.

If the car is in an accident where there is enough force to push the corner through the firewall, through the Apillar structure and through those two tubes...i'd be more worried about internal and head injuries then a busted leg.

Can you elaborate on this? The E46 has a lot of metal by your feet, and with these two bars there it would provide sufficient leg/foot support.

If the car is in an accident where there is enough force to push the corner through the firewall, through the Apillar structure and through those two tubes...i'd be more worried about internal and head injuries then a busted leg.

Simple - I have seen cars with really weird damage that "shouldn't" have happened. It's very possible to get the car in a position where the front wheels can be shoved into the driver's foot well with tremendous force. I'm a cage-minimalist, but triangulted foot protection in the driver's footwell is a must IMO.

With Steve J's seating position and custom pedal setup, maybe he's back far enough that the A pillar bar is enough. Anyone with stock pedal location would be nuts not to have foot protection. It's 18" of bar and it's low...the weight penalty is nothing compared to the pain penalty.

Noone is arguing IF foot protection is needed...he's asking if those bars can be considered the foot protection.

Noone is arguing IF foot protection is needed...he's asking if those bars can be considered the foot protection.
There are two different ways to make bars to the strut tower, though. Two bars horizontal from the dash bar to the top of the strut tower, or those two bars (or one of them) and a bar going down and back to the A-pillar bar base plate, as Bryan described. I'd say the former is NOT a substitute for footwell protection, but the latter probably could be.

-tammer

I'm a cage-minimalist, but triangulted foot protection in the driver's footwell is a must IMO.

If you've already got a bar running from the bottom of the A-pillar up to the top of the strut tower, there's no room for (and probably no real need for) an additional attachment point at the firewall. That's the point that is being made.

If you've already got a bar running from the bottom of the A-pillar up to the top of the strut tower, there's no room for (and probably no real need for) an additional attachment point at the firewall. That's the point that is being made.

Exactly. That bar (as well as in addition to the other 2 bars) are acting as the antitrusion and support bars.

Roof was looking good when i checked on it last night, I left it clamped on so it can fully cure and I'll remove all the 20 or so clamps tonight.

Evosport also has about 100lbs of parts coming to me next week, and I'm trying to get the rear subframe buttoned up and installed so I can get the drivetrain moving along as well.

The only real part I need to fab that will take some time (pro just a day) is the exhaust...which is very simple, and short :)

Quick update:

I've got one more solid mount left to press in on the rear subframe, then I can mount it up with the diff.

I got in my Evosport rear side Lexan windows, fit like a gem! I just need to paint the black the edges and fasten the mounts.

This weekend I'm hoping to finish the firewall enclosure, rear bulkhead enclosure, and get the trunk lid mounted (using 4 bstandard hood pins).

Roof looks fantastic! The structural adhesive Loctite/Henkel provided worked great, and their dispenser worked well, although it did come out very slowly.

I won't be able to get the chassis rolling until I fab a bunch of suspension pieces, and that won't happen until the lathe is setup...couple more weeks.

I'm still pushing to try and get it done for a July event, but its looking pretty tough at this point, we'll see.

Good news, Lathe is on its way to me! China made an early delivery, so it looks like July completion could be possible if I hustle in June.

I'll have pics this weekend, but I should have the subframe/diff mounted up, trunk mounted, rear lexan side windows mounted, firewall heatshields, and rear seat bulkhead done.

I also just checked the stats on my website (www.jaffster.com) and some interesting stats:
From Tue, May 30, 2006 to Fri, May 16 2008 (716 days) I have had 940,538 hits! Thats an average of 1313 hits a day!

At the rate its going right now, and assuming it picks up a bit as I have more big updates in the coming month or so, I should be hitting a million soon. :redspot

I'll have pics this weekend, but I should have the subframe/diff mounted up, trunk mounted, rear lexan side windows mounted, firewall heatshields, and rear seat bulkhead done.

I also just checked the stats on my website (www.jaffster.com) and some interesting stats:
From Tue, May 30, 2006 to Fri, May 16 2008 (716 days) I have had 940,538 hits! Thats an average of 1313 hits a day!

At the rate its going right now, and assuming it picks up a bit as I have more big updates in the coming month or so, I should be hitting a million soon. :redspot

You should just add a small little google advertisement bar to the right side of the homepage and make a little money on the side, haha. Pretty impressive numbers for your webpage, but it's also a pretty impressive build. I can't wait to see some more pics!

So with all your cool stuff Steve, I'm wondering what you will be using to transport this sweet ride.

Sounds like you're getting hits for every time one of the pictures loads here in this forum.

I am not sure, most likely, but still...that means someone is seeing it :) There is a number for direct page hits, as well as as list of where people are being redirected from.

As for how this thing is being transported...not sure yet. Nothing crazy though, zero budget left lol We have a local shop that transports our cars to events, I might have to toss this car on there with the others for a couple events before I find a trailer/truck.

I just got the rear subframe all mounted up, and I'm trying to get the diff in, but its a bitch with the car on jack stands. I might have to raise the car higher and try to get two jacks under the diff and slip it in.

I thought you had a two post lift? I put the subframe on stands and lower the car onto it... easy as pie.

The two post lift is not here yet, once I get the car as a roller it'll be installed.

I got the diff up in there, but I think I need to clean the threads out of the front diff mount...problem is I don't have a damn m14x1.5 tap...so this might have to wait until Tuesday.

Rotisserie is being picked up tomorrow and Lathe should be here Monday or Tuesday.

I'll have pics this weekend, but I should have the subframe/diff mounted up, trunk mounted, rear lexan side windows mounted, firewall heatshields, and rear seat bulkhead done.

I also just checked the stats on my website (www.jaffster.com) and some interesting stats:
From Tue, May 30, 2006 to Fri, May 16 2008 (716 days) I have had 940,538 hits! Thats an average of 1313 hits a day!

At the rate its going right now, and assuming it picks up a bit as I have more big updates in the coming month or so, I should be hitting a million soon. :redspot
More than half of the hits are from you. :alright

Whatever. As long as people can see what I am doing, i'm good to go.

I wanted to get more done today but I just was pooped. I'm working on the rear bulkhead and cockpit side of the firewall.

Hopefully a rolling chassis won't be too far away now, just a lot of odds and ends to do during the assembly (wheel bearings, etc).

Whatever. As long as people can see what I am doing, i'm good to go.

Agreed, you can't take on a project like this and keep it to yourself.

It would be nicer if I had my own company I could promote with it...maybe soon, we'll see.

Today is prob a loss, but tonight I'll hopefully get all the bulkhead/firewall shields done and I can start working on mounting the rear side lexan.

Trunk done (Carbon CSL trunk not until next phase):

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/trunkdone.JPG


Little something I got in from Evosport today (along with 20 other parts):

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/turbo.JPG

pt67?

Not sure on what the exact model of the turbo is, but its built for my application. I just need to figure out all the plumbing...i'm not used to so many damn lines and hoses going in and out everywhere lol

I still have not finished the front/rear bulkhead panels, or the lexan windows, but I have the lathe coming, so a rolling chassis is not far :)

Plumbing is no biggy,oil in and out and coolant in and out!

Very nice build btw! can't wait to see the finished project!

Yea, I've got good support telling me what to do...not a turbo expert, but it is simple stuff in general. I just like to keep my plumbing clean and neat, it helps for racing and reliability. So a little extra thought is required for plumbing layout.

Yea, I've got good support telling me what to do...not a turbo expert, but it is simple stuff in general. I just like to keep my plumbing clean and neat, it helps for racing and reliability. So a little extra thought is required for plumbing layout.

Very true! Haven't followed the whole thread as it is so large, but what exhaust manifold are you running? Some bottom mount guys run an oil scavenger pump if the turbo sits too low. You may be doing this anyway but just a suggestion if not!

Post this in the FI section too! I'm sure some of the guys over there haven't seen the build yet and we all love to see anything boosted!

Using a Spa Manifold. No scavenger. I'm running the oil feed from my VAC oil housing.

I was originally just doing a very stockish S54, but decided i wanted FI...then, coincidently, a bunch of turbo racecar projects started :)

I was able to build this M52 turbo motor for about half of what the S54 would have cost, so I'm hoping I can get everything working so it just runs and I have to worry about it as little as possible.

I don't need max peak power or crazy complex setups, as long as it has a smooth powerband, and is uber reliable, I'm good to go.

So this motor will be running VERY low PSI, if I make 350whp, I'll be happy, although i've been told it'll do that very easily, so maybe a 400whp push to pass button :)

No scavenge? I know Carl runs a scavenge with the SPA.

I don't know lol I am just worrying about the chassis, setting up the engine will come next. I really just want to get the engine/trans in so i can fab the exhaust and get the car as a roller so I can get the lift installed.

I'll trust the turbo experts to tell me whats up. I've seen it work with gravity fed, so not sure if the scavenge is totally necessary, but I'll find out shortly :)

Using a Spa Manifold. No scavenger. I'm running the oil feed from my VAC oil housing.

I was originally just doing a very stockish S54, but decided i wanted FI...then, coincidently, a bunch of turbo racecar projects started :)

I was able to build this M52 turbo motor for about half of what the S54 would have cost, so I'm hoping I can get everything working so it just runs and I have to worry about it as little as possible.

I don't need max peak power or crazy complex setups, as long as it has a smooth powerband, and is uber reliable, I'm good to go.

So this motor will be running VERY low PSI, if I make 350whp, I'll be happy, although i've been told it'll do that very easily, so maybe a 400whp push to pass button :)

I ran the spa on my old setup. Check the manifold flange for straightness as I had exhaust leaks on 1 and 6. Cutting slots between the cylinder helps.
Since this is going on a race car, I'd go ahead and do some port and polishing and have it ceramic coated to help with heat.

Its been cleaned up. Its also getting those Inconel heatshields from Evosport.

You should check out Evosport, they already race many of these products/setups.

Using a Spa Manifold. No scavenger. YET. :stickoutt It is really needed for turbo life on the BM.

I should have just put a small block in here.. ;)

So what are the specs on that turbo?

So what are the specs on that turbo?

It'll efficiently make the power I want to make. Its a precision turbo with some numbers and letters after it. Hp57 and .63 A/R are some things I remember off hand, I can check it out when i get home later.

New toy :) Hopefully rolling chassis will be soon once I turn a bunch of suspension pieces.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/newtoy.JPG

Wow cool lathe. Are you getting a milling machine down the line or do you already have one?

At some point, nothing crazy, just another small bench top unit. I don't really have much milling projects, but I turn a lot of inserts, spacers, bushings, etc.

N