Last night, as fate would have it...I finally get a chance to see how my stock silver 95 M3 fairs against an E46.

Pulled up to the light and low and behold its a silver 2001 M3! we both have dark tinted windows so no one said a word or exchanged looks but the "old vs. new" curiosity was brewing at this intersection.

Light turns green and I take off, he let me go so I figured he didnt want to play....but didnt shift yet . Once he hit 2nd gear he nailed it and reeled me in on the jump and went right past me.

{DING} Round 1!

Next red light we pull up to and of course I want a fair shot at this one. Light turns green and we both take off. I get a perfect launch and we are dead even in 1st gear. Shift to 2nd and he gets a noselength on me. By the time I shifted to 3rd my nose was at his door. We both wind out 3rd gear and he starts walking on me. About midway thru 3rd he just keeps pulling and thats when I knew to throw the towel in.

{DING} Round 2!

Pulled up to the next light and dropped our windows. He asked what year mine was, I told him he had an awesome car and we parted ways. Nice guys for a change, not the usual assholes I encounter who would rub salt in the wound. I mean come on we knew what the outcome would it....its evolution;)

C'mon Jonny, just get the dang turbo while you're down there. Heh.

C'mon Jonny, just get the dang turbo while you're down there. Heh.

Actually Scott, the friends who were following me said the same thing. I said why not just get the new one instead:p


E46 M3: Oh yes, it will be mine, Oh yes....

I got a ride in one at the 2-day track event at Tremblant - it's pretty groovy :)

However, it's definitely missing that raw E36 edge that makes you scream "HOLY CRAP" and grab the door handles as your instructor brakes HARD from ~130 after the straight :D My old instructor is always able to induce motion sickness and a fear of crashing from a 20-minute track session, but riding in this other guy's E46 was like, "eh." The brakes in that E46 were pretty amazing, though...


Now that I think about it, I'm starting to realize why people track E30's and OLD 911's and 2002's... you get a lot more thrills at much safer speeds. Hmm...

Didnt sound like he beat you that bad at all...

You got any mods?

Sweet story, nice work. I thought that E46 would eat you alive. You were pretty even? Nice driving. Do you think you were quicker on the shifts? Do you think he wasn't winding it up to 8k?

How do you think the E46 sounded?

JamesM

You kind of expect these new cars to be super fast.
I think it's more interesting when you have a sleeper.

With a well prepped turbo, you would have sent that guy back to the dealer with engine questions!

These are 2 different beasts, with 2 different price points.

It is evolution... But you can slow the aging process with forced induction.

Here's how I do it

Originally posted by Scott Yu
I got a ride in one at the 2-day track event at Tremblant - it's pretty groovy :)

However, it's definitely missing that raw E36 edge that makes you scream "HOLY CRAP" and grab the door handles as your instructor brakes HARD from ~130 after the straight :D My old instructor is always able to induce motion sickness and a fear of crashing from a 20-minute track session, but riding in this other guy's E46 was like, "eh." The brakes in that E46 were pretty amazing, though...


Now that I think about it, I'm starting to realize why people track E30's and OLD 911's and 2002's... you get a lot more thrills at much safer speeds. Hmm...

The E30 people said the same thing about the E36 M3 when it came out, in reality the setup on the E46 M3 is more aggressive than the E36's, but it's a far cry from the E30. I want all 3 generations though.:D For the true driving experience, get an E36 M3 for your daily driver and a Caterham 7 Fireblade for the track, it'll be madness and all for the price of one new E46 M3.

Check out the dyno plot I posted... the E46 M3 and E36 M3 have pretty much the same power/torque below say 3500-4000 rpm. After 4000rpm, the E46 M3 starts roasting the E36 M3.

<a href="http://www.activeautowerke.com/dyno/97%20E36%20M3%20vs%2001%20E46%20M3.asp">E46 M3 vs E36 M3 Dyno Chart</a>:D

Hey, are you on the other side of the pond? Caterham isn't quite an option for us Yanks, though if you've the money you can get into a track-only elise...

madness... I like the sound of that :D

Originally posted by E34


The E30 people said the same thing about the E36 M3 when it came out, in reality the setup on the E46 M3 is more aggressive than the E36's, but it's a far cry from the E30. I want all 3 generations though.:D For the true driving experience, get an E36 M3 for your daily driver and a Caterham 7 Fireblade for the track, it'll be madness and all for the price of one new E46 M3.

Originally posted by Greg
You kind of expect these new cars to be super fast.
I think it's more interesting when you have a sleeper.

With a well prepped turbo, you would have sent that guy back to the dealer with engine questions!

These are 2 different beasts, with 2 different price points.

It is evolution... But you can slow the aging process with forced induction.

Here's how I do it

Is your car orange? I've never seen pics of it before, VERY sweet!!

Originally posted by Scott Yu
Hey, are you on the other side of the pond? Caterham isn't quite an option for us Yanks, though if you've the money you can get into a track-only elise...

madness... I like the sound of that :D



lol, no, just a bit too much EVO. There's probably a way to make it legal, like stickin some bumpers on it when the feds want to inspect it. Did you imagine me saying "madness" in a British accent?:D

Nah, just figured that anyone that would suggest a caterham would either have to be from across the pond, or read too much EVO :p


heh.


Originally posted by E34


lol, no, just a bit too much EVO. There's probably a way to make it legal, like stickin some bumpers on it when the feds want to inspect it. Did you imagine me saying "madness" in a British accent?:D

Originally posted by Scott Yu
Nah, just figured that anyone that would suggest a caterham would either have to be from across the pond, or read too much EVO :p


heh.




I'm across from Lake Michigan if that counts.

I love scaring the sh*t out of people w/ my car. And occasionally doing it to myself! I took a kid that owns a 5.0 Stang out for a ride the otehr day and he claimed his car handled better than my car...hahahahaha. There are several turns down this road we go on that have posted 45 mph signs on them. He was like "i can do them at 60" and i was like, "ok tell me what my spedo says when we go around them." after we got through the turns i asked him and he said he was scared shitless and didn't even look off the road. Haha, pretty funny. And after riding in his 5.0 i am fairly confident that i can beat him in a race..... So i plan on asking him tomorrow.

LOL :) Hey, close enough!


Originally posted by E34


I'm across from Lake Michigan if that counts.

Originally posted by D Davis 89 325iS
I love scaring the sh*t out of people w/ my car. And occasionally doing it to myself! I took a kid that owns a 5.0 Stang out for a ride the otehr day and he claimed his car handled better than my car...hahahahaha. There are several turns down this road we go on that have posted 45 mph signs on them. He was like "i can do them at 60" and i was like, "ok tell me what my spedo says when we go around them." after we got through the turns i asked him and he said he was scared shitless and didn't even look off the road. Haha, pretty funny. And after riding in his 5.0 i am fairly confident that i can beat him in a race..... So i plan on asking him tomorrow.

Just make sure it has some turns.

VolsBimmer,
The car is Hellrot, just the bright sun after a Saturday car wash made it look like that here's another pic.

Cheers
G

That's sweet!

Thanks!!

Whoa, mad drive train loss in the E46....The E36 M3 has a 17% loss and the E46 a 24% loss. If the E46 was only losing 17% it would be putting 289 instead of 247 to the ground. Is it possible the test mule E46 wasn't broken in? Hell, was it an auto?? Man if the E36 was losing 24% it would have a hard time getting out of its own way...

J

Does the E46 M3 even come in auto?

No the E46 M3 does not come in auto. The SMG will have an auto mode that shifts for you, but it's a true manual gearbox

That's what I thought, but wanted to give the E46 the benefit of the doubt....A 24% drive line loss is nuts for a Manual...Maybe Ford did buy BMW and they were fudging the 333 number and the engine is only putting out 287(246 + 17% loss)....:eek: Now that I think of it...287 is the # of ponies the '99 Cobra was really putting out instead of 320...We might want to check under the hood of the M3 for an extra coupla cylinders and a Cobra emblem...:)

Where did you see that? 24% is crazy! That sounds like slushbox losses.

Sounds like the engines and trannies were not broken in on the test cars. Also, improper break-in can ruin the performance of a perfectly new engine. What the hell else could it be? BMW drivetrains aren't that bad, are they? The E30 M3 is tested to have about 15-16% loss.

I wonder if anyone has dyno'ed with dino oils vs synthetics in the engine, transmission, and diff. My brother has access to a shop with a dynojet, and the owner of that shop happens to also own a spankin new 2001 M3.

JamesM

Scroll up and look at Kevlar's post...Has a link to AA's website and a 97 v 01 M3 comparo....One thing I did miss though is that AA uses a Mustang dyno which always throws out lower numbers because of the way its setup. Here is a link for some SF dyno runs done on a dynojet...The numbers are noticably higher (277 v 217), BUT there is still a much higher % of loss on the E46 compared to the E36. 17% v 9%......Who da hell knows??

http://members-http-3.rwc1.sfba.home.net/plpan/dynoday/