I really enjoyed this article - seems like such a shame certain people are such a-holes...

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=1&columnist=oreovicz_john&id=3180918

1. Ford, Toyota and Honda "did their utmost" to end the split? Bullsh*t. Ford gave motors to teams for the very first IRL Indy 500 in 1996. Toyota and Honda could have held the IRL at bay when it became apparent that the original manufacturers pulling out was not going to enable IRL teams to continue. So what did they do? They went to the IRL, thus prolonging the split by pouring money into the teams.

2. "When the Indianapolis 500 struggles every year to put together 33 entries -- much less 33 qualifiers -- and Champ Car currently stands without a single confirmed driver/team combination, it makes everyone involved in American open-wheel racing look like an idiot." - here's the truth, they don't look like idiots. They ARE idiots.

3. Kahlkoven's listed as a culprit based on the writers assumption that when talks break down, it must the the fault of both parties? So it's not possible that one side can be so unwilling to compromise that talks can break down?LOL! This guy must have never spoken to Tony George. If Kahlkoven's a culprit, it's only because he's allowed Champ Car to live this long, thus not ending the split by just allowin Champ Car to "end".

4. Foyt, Cooper, and Ecclestone - spon-on by the writer.

5. Ganassi, Rahal, Penske, and Mi. Andretti - traitors one and all. Participated in that CART "going public" operation then bailed like rats on a sinking ship, leaving any investors with a bunch of worthless paper as holdings.

6. Bill France Jr - culprit? Maybe, but some might say genius. Parlayed the split into North American dominance by NASCAR. Can't blame him for taking advantage of a bunch of dumbasses.

7. Forsythe's the real money behind Champ Car? News to me....maybe Kahlkoven, too.

8. TG is number one? Duh. Nothing a good helicopter crash wouldn't solve.

without doing any research because its so late and im tired, im pretty sure the first irl 500 was with exclusively aurora engines. i may be proved wrong though.

this article is hogwash. the whole thing is purely behind tony george and penske, their ego's got in the way. /topic

my father built the golf course, brickyard at the crossing thats partly inside of the track and he harassed tony george after he announced the split. i was proud.

Wow, they're still writing about it? Most everybody with any sense has moved on. Nobody gives a sh-t anymore.

The only thing it's good for is a study in what ego, greed, and stupidity can bring about.



1996 was run with Cosworth DFXs. 1997 was the first race with the Olds engines.

Let's also not forget that many of the greedy CART owners, while publicly bashing the IRL and Tongy George, sold off their 1995 chassis to IRL teams to run in 1996. God knows they couldn't let a little return on investment get in the way of scuttling what became the worst thing to ever happen in US open wheel racing - the IRL.

While I agree that nobody cares anymore, it's still hard to accept what happened to what probably was some of the best racing, if not THE best racing, in the world at the time. Bernie was seriously concerned about the threat that CART posed to F1 at that time. He's not concerned any more!

Tony George killed open wheel racing in the U.S. The other teams and players simply followed the money (which is quite understandable given how expensive it is to run a pro racing team).

- The cars that got sold would have been sold anyway. It just happened that the IRL teams picked them. Who knew (at the time) that the IRL would have become as strong as it did. CART was a powerhouse at the time. CART underestimated the true value of the Indy 500.

- The teams that jumped ship from CART to IRL did so because of one reason, the Indianapolis 500. That one race justifies the sponsorship decals splashed all over the cars (or used to anyway). The entire CART season cannot possibly compare to that one race in terms of sponsorship interest. As such, the top names (who can court big name sponsorship) are going to go where the big name sponsors want to be. (Side note, I was very surprised to see McDonalds on SB's car. If I'm McD's, I'm going NASCAR or IRL).

- France is a great business man who saw and opening and took a second tier series to the top of American motorsports. You can decry whether or not NASCAR is really racing all you want. But at the end of the day, name another racing series, other than F1, that can command over $1million for a hood decal for one race.

The Indy 500 was the kicker. Without it, CART wasn't (isn't) much better (from a money standpoint) than a souped up and expensive Toyota Atlantic series. And for straight oval racing, NASCAR is a better product than IRL.

When Tony George took his ball (the Indy 500) and went home, open wheel racing in the US was wrecked.


That's just my opinion. I could be wrong. :)

I'm hoping that the silver lining Ecclestone removing the USGP is that George's coffers will be reduced even that much more. Hopefully he'll wake up and realize something needs to be changed. Though I'm sure he probably won't. :shifty

This whole topic is depressing. :(

This whole topic is depressing. :(

Word.

I'm glad I got the hell out of Dodge... it's not looking good.

In the last two days, CCWS announced their TV schedule. It's pretty sad... a few 60 minute "highlight" broadcasts even. Long Beach is tape delayed, Houston is tape delayed. Road America and Cleveland are only 60 minute "highlight broadcasts." Only 5 races are broadcast live in full length.

Their Atlantic champion (who was awarded $2m towards a CCWS ride) jumped ship, and is running IPS with AGR. You bring $2m to the table and can't get a ride???

And the only one in the whole office with a brain (Tony Cotman) is leaving (only staying to find his replacement).

Blah blah blah....



BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY

BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY

:rofl :rofl :rofl

In the last two days, CCWS announced their TV schedule. It's pretty sad... a few 60 minute "highlight" broadcasts even. Long Beach is tape delayed, Houston is tape delayed. Road America and Cleveland are only 60 minute "highlight broadcasts." Only 5 races are broadcast live in full length.

Their Atlantic champion (who was awarded $2m towards a CCWS ride) jumped ship, and is running IPS with AGR. You bring $2m to the table and can't get a ride???



It's bad when we have a better TV package than you do. No live TV for Star, but full coverage of every race at least.

As for Matos... :(

It's time for someone to put a bullet in the head of CCWS.

The past is the past. If there is a future worth having, then one must die.

The past is the past. If there is a future worth having, then one must die.

For open wheel racing to succeed in the U.S., they both must die and leave room for a third series to rise up and take their place.

Any series without the Indy 500 won't succeed, so the IMS must be in the equation, and that means the IRL in some capacity. You can argue about TG's stewardship of the event, or his use of it as a "hammer," but there's no doubt it's been his trump card.

Any series without the Indy 500 won't succeed, so the IMS must be in the equation, and that means the IRL in some capacity. You can argue about TG's stewardship of the event, or his use of it as a "hammer," but there's no doubt it's been his trump card.

There is some truth to this, but CART had a few great years after the split. I think that if you are going to be a top flight US series you have to run some ovals. It's not my thing personally, but I do think they have a mass appeal here.

Are there any viable oval races (other than Indy) left? The crowds I've seen at recent IRL events have been miniscule at best.

Of course, I haven't been paying much attention to anything that has "IRL" on it.

Are there any viable oval races (other than Indy) left? The crowds I've seen at recent IRL events have been miniscule at best.

Of course, I haven't been paying much attention to anything that has "IRL" on it.

To be honest I don't know in open wheel. Obviously there are lots in NASCAR. I know that a lot of the ovals drew well for CART after the split.

This is a subject I love to hate, but still holds a fascination in a macabre sort of way.

The latest rumblings

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/42686/

Desperate times call for desperate measures? They've gone down that road before though, only to diverge again.

I'd almost be in favor of it, if they would promise to get rid of the IRL crapwagons after a transition period and develop a version of the CC Panoz better suited to ovals. Understandably, CC doesn't want to piss away their investment after only using them for one season.

An additional promise to have a balanced schedule, and a pledge to cease trying to emulate NASCAR with open wheels would be gravy.

And has old Blue Eyes softened, of will N/H/L become H/L?

IRL crapwagons


:rofl

I haven't seen that term in print since the old 7th Gear days.

:rofl

I haven't seen that term in print since the old 7th Gear days.

LOL, I have, but you just reminded me about 7G. That was the first forum I ever participated on. offcamber.net seems to be the place where old CART fans have gone to shed their tears over the deceased.

Regarding this CC TV package. That is sick. Put a fork in USOW. It's done.

From that article on Spped linked above:

“It’s too late to do anything for 2008 but Tony’s plan is a good idea for 2009.”

Hahahahahaha.....please. :(

It’s too late to do anything for 2008 but Tony’s plan is a good idea for 2009.”

Hahahahahaha.....please.

Indy 500 tape delay next year. I'm calling it now.

For open wheel racing to succeed in the U.S., they both must die and leave room for a third series to rise up and take their place.

I'd settle for no CART(Open Wheel Racing Powered by CART presented by Rotor Rooter, whatever it's called) or IRL and 2-3 F1 races in the US.

I'd settle for no CART(Open Wheel Racing Powered by CART presented by Rotor Rooter, whatever it's called) or IRL and 2-3 F1 races in the US.

Ain't gonna happen. No track owners here needs Bernie worse than he needs them.

LOL, I have, but you just reminded me about 7G. That was the first forum I ever participated on.

It was one of the first ones I joined also. I was a dedicated CART fan up until 2000.

How about we bring the Indy 500 back to F1...but do we suffer with roundy-round laps or make them use the USGP track? Then F1 could go to LasVegas (or the likes) for a "USGP". Then merge CART with IRL and make it a North American F1 feeder series like F3000 or GP2. Two or more US F1 races will bring back more US sponsors and really expand what the sport can be. Then we need the FIA to open the rules back up to stop the "Spec-ification" of F1.

So, who wants to vote for me to head up the FIA and get this started? :D

that SOB Tony George!!
"IRL officials confirmed on Friday (Feb. 8) that league chairman Tony George and two of his top associates, along with Robert Clarke, the former head of Honda Performance Development, will fly to Motegi, Japan, this weekend to meet with Motegi track officials. Their pitch: Moving the April 19 Motegi race so that this year's Long Beach Grand Prix can be added to the IndyCar Series schedule....
The Motegi/Long Beach situation is just one of the key issues yet to be resolved, but George's willingness to fly 13 hours from Indianapolis to Japan indicates he is dedicated to finding a solution."