Hi everyone:

I need to replace my totaled '98 Turbo M3 and I want to go the vert route (mid life crisis). I don't know wether to go with the Boxter S or the Z4 M. Both cost about the same to insure, but I've never driven either car. Any ideas, comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Juan

Hi everyone:

I need to replace my totaled '98 Turbo M3 and I want to go the vert route (mid life crisis). I don't know wether to go with the Boxter S or the Z4 M. Both cost about the same to insure, but I've never driven either car. Any ideas, comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Juan


Well coming from a 500whp car, neither of these cars is going to feel even as close to as powerful. (My last car was a 425whp STI so i feel your pain) The boxter S is not in the Z4Ms league. If you want to have a fair comparison, look at the cayman S vs. the Z4M. They are pretty much dead even. The cayman S handles a little better than the Z4M. The Z4M has a little more speed on the top end. Personally I would choose the Z4M over the boxter because i think you are getting more car for your money.

Well coming from a 500whp car, neither of these cars is going to feel even as close to as powerful. (My last car was a 425whp STI so i feel your pain) The boxter S is not in the Z4Ms league. If you want to have a fair comparison, look at the cayman S vs. the Z4M. They are pretty much dead even. The cayman S handles a little better than the Z4M. The Z4M has a little more speed on the top end. Personally I would choose the Z4M over the boxter because i think you are getting more car for your money.


So correct... I was looking at the Cayman S and Z4M coupe... Cayman handled a bit better but not much. Speed and quickness... Z4M Coupe hands down... more bang for your buck. IMO, better build quality too, especially the interior...

I was stuck between a 07 Cayman S and the 07 Z4M as well as a 06 E46 M3 Competition, or to wait for the E92 M3..


If you can't drive well, buy the Cayman, as its easy to drive fast, slow, whatever.
...I saw a white haired old lady driving a white Cayman S....I don't want a sports car an old lady can drive ( no offense to anyone ).

I won't talk about the Boxster as I have driven that as well and...I'd recommend a M roadster over it; MZ3 or MZ4. The diff makes a world of difference.

The E46 M3 Comp. topped my list but...they stealers were up to no good wanting more than a new Z4M.

The E92 M3 was up in the air at that time and I don't like how the m3 goes from 50-55k to 70k...that's just wrong...although it sounds better than any of the others, its not the old m3 and its not as focused.

In the end I paid less for my Z4M than the M3 or a Cayman S. And
I wouldn't change it.


Go Z4M!

get an 02 M coupe and go AA supercharge or HPF Turbo....

I drove both the Cayman S and the M coupe. I liked the Cayman S but not enough for the 15K more that it would have cost me. Also after getting the M coupe, and taking it for Service nd not having to pay, I am very happy about my choice. Did I say that it is also an AWESOME car to drive. Now if you go and post in a Cayman S forum, you may get a different opinion!!

...but I've never driven either car.Definitely go drive - if that doesn't convince you either way, then consider the economics. As mentioned earlier, total cost of ownership in regard to service costs tip things way into BMW territory.

Play with each manufacturer's web site "Build my Car" functionality and see what equally equipped cars net out for. Again, this favors BMW.

For my own choice the Boxster just had no soul: a cold, sterile, high-performance driving appliance.

watch video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUSKU0TPp4I

I have driven the Boxster, but not the Z4. It is fast, but not super fast. The handling is great and the steering is so precise with that mid-engine. As a smaller car, it does feel quick anyway. They are also versatile as they have 2 trunks. Nice weekend getaway car for two.

watch video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUSKU0TPp4I

You beat me to it. The boxter S is a better competitor to the Z4 3.0si, not the M.

So correct... I was looking at the Cayman S and Z4M coupe... Cayman handled a bit better but not much. Speed and quickness... Z4M Coupe hands down... more bang for your buck. IMO, better build quality too, especially the interior...

Well coming from a 500whp car, neither of these cars is going to feel even as close to as powerful. (My last car was a 425whp STI so i feel your pain) The boxter S is not in the Z4Ms league. If you want to have a fair comparison, look at the cayman S vs. the Z4M. They are pretty much dead even. The cayman S handles a little better than the Z4M. The Z4M has a little more speed on the top end. Personally I would choose the Z4M over the boxter because i think you are getting more car for your money.

He's looking for a vert, not a coupe.
M roady vs Boxster S

IMO, it's M Roady hands down.
Like above 3.0si is a closer comparo

If you can't drive well, buy the Cayman, as its easy to drive fast, slow, whatever.
...I saw a white haired old lady driving a white Cayman S....I don't want a sports car an old lady can drive ( no offense to anyone ).


I agree with the above. The Cayman and Boxster are good cars, and they're very easy to drive, but they lack the character of the Z4Ms. Then there's the price difference (higher), the power difference (lower), the warranties (less) and the specs (no lsd).

It's unfortunate that the press tests the 2 cars stock to stock - a Z4M with 3.91 or 4.10 diff and better tires than the OEM Contis would make the choice between the two a blow-out win by the Z4M on all performance fronts. I wish BMW had released the car with the 3.91 diff and Michelin PS2s.

well you are SUPPOSED to test cars stock... and compare them the way they come, not with aftermarket pieces added

I do think BMW slightly "kneecapped" the MZ4 in tests by using their surplus M3 Contis. You'd think they got enough negative feedback about the tires from every M3 owner for them to learn the lesson. I would speculate that they must have had some sort of super cheap supply contract to keep using them. Are the '08s still saddled with Contis?

The most telling thing to me about BMWs true feelings about the Contis was that all but one of the Z4Ms used at our November '06 Performance Center Delivery had Michelins on them, and that one exception was getting Michelins as soon as they burned through the Contis.

Thanks guys....Kevlar that video sums it up. I found this on ebay. The price seems low for what they are going for, but I want white over red really bad. Any known problems about the Z4 m roadster I should know about besides the tires (conti)?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-BMW-M-Roadster-PremiumPkg-HtdSts-Xenon-CHEAP_W0QQitemZ170181951930QQihZ007QQcategoryZ1331 84QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I know it will be a different car than my M3, but I'm ready for a change.

well you are SUPPOSED to test cars stock... and compare them the way they come, not with aftermarket pieces added

I know, I was more complaining about the stock condition. The Contis were BMW's choice for stock - they could have picked better tires. And the 3.91 gears are from their performance parts bin (as are the aero kit sideskirts the car should have come with).

IMO, the Z4MC should be a purer version of the M3, without the compromises that were necessary for that car to be a daily driver. Some have speculated that the M Coupe was hobbled so as not to outshine the E46 M3, but I can't imagine why BMW would worry about that when the car bowed in 2006, just as the M3 was leaving the stage.

It's annoying, because the car is so freaking close to greatness. Not that I mind taking it those last few steps myself. :alright

Z4M and choose your version.

well the m3 is and always will be their flagship... to have a "lesser" car per say, as many would look at it beat the m3, isnt acceptable to bmw

why do you think they would never put a ring time out there??? bc it would RAPE the m3, it would take out the csl in my opinion as well, if they put the michy's on it

I want to go the vert route

:shifty

Z4 M, there's a Top Gear review on it somewhere on youtube.

watch video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUSKU0TPp4I

:shifty

Z4 M, there's a Top Gear review on it somewhere on youtube.
:confused

:confused

My bad, must've missed that post. I'm too :embarrasm.

My original plan was 00-02 Boxster S as track/fun car. With previous Audi/Porsche experience and exposure to a few jackholes (who happened to be BMW drivers), I wasn't so pro-BMW.

But, after driving Z4 (3.0l - not even M), was very impressed with handling. It was noticeably better than the Boxster S. Even with drive-by-wire, the car felt better, and seemed to have more power available, mid-apex.

It took awhile to get used to sitting so far back, and being "in" (not "above") the vehicle - but very great experience. Moving from AWD (Audi Quattro) to RWD was fun too.

So, I'm a convert, at least for the Z4. And, I've met some very nice BMW drivers at the track to balance the jackholes I knew before!

Yeah, I know, I'm sure there are jackhole Audi/Porsche owners that the BMW-loyal know. Jackholes aren't manufacturer specific. :)

Stock for stock Boxster S (07 and up) any day. Z4M chassis is not on par with the awesome M3 engine. Needs firmer suspension and body reinforcements. I drove Z4MC and it handled as shown in Top Gear tests - not well.

05 Viper
04 M3 SMG
04 Z4 3.0
02 S2000

Boxster would be my choice

Stock for stock Boxster S (07 and up) any day. Z4M chassis is not on par with the awesome M3 engine.

Err, is that a joke? The Z4MC chassis is almost 2 times stiffer than the chassis of the M3. It's stiffer than the Cayman S, much less the Boxster S. The only chassis I know of that are stiffer are the Pagani Zonda, Carrera GT and the Rolls-Royce Phantom; there might be others, but those are the only cars I know with higher torsional rigidity figures. It's pretty much the best chassis BMW currently produces.

And a stiffer suspension? The stiff suspension of the Z4M models is the most frequent complaint about the model in reviews.

Lastly, in the Top Gear review, Richard Hammond picked the Z4M over the Boxster. He said his mistake in the first run was trying to drive the Z4M like a Boxster., because it required a firmer hand than the Boxster ("You have to grab it by the scruff of the neck" is the exact quote).

The problem with the MZ4 is not the chassis it is the power. It just naturally is not as tame because of the power. That doesn't make it a bad car, it just means that it takes more skill to be able to control it. Lower HP cars, like the boxter, are easier to control because your mistakes are more easily masked by the lack of HP.

But that said, if you are not comfortable in the MZ4 then you do not belong in an MZ4.

I do think BMW slightly "kneecapped" the MZ4 in tests by using their surplus M3 Contis. You'd think they got enough negative feedback about the tires from every M3 owner for them to learn the lesson. I would speculate that they must have had some sort of super cheap supply contract to keep using them. Are the '08s still saddled with Contis?

The most telling thing to me about BMWs true feelings about the Contis was that all but one of the Z4Ms used at our November '06 Performance Center Delivery had Michelins on them, and that one exception was getting Michelins as soon as they burned through the Contis.

According to my stealership, BMW owns Continental tire now. That explains a lot.

Stock for stock Boxster S (07 and up) any day. Z4M chassis is not on par with the awesome M3 engine. Needs firmer suspension and body reinforcements. I drove Z4MC and it handled as shown in Top Gear tests - not well.

05 Viper
04 M3 SMG
04 Z4 3.0
02 S2000


If you watched the whole episode, I think the Z4 M won.

Post pics of your 4 cars when you get a chance. I think some of us all want to see. :devillook

uhahh, little doubtfull are we about the people huh? anyway, can't do. tell admin to 'upgrade' my account.

you can try to use this to see viper and s:

picasaweb dot google dot com/v10venom/Viper/photo?authkey=AxfjqEnnERk#5055602182766498

I really think you have to go out on a saturday morning and drive both of them. When I was trying to decide between the Cayman S and M Coupe, I had a couple of days between driving them my first go around. Both of them felt so much better than my CLK 320 I couldn't tell which I liked better. The second time around, I drove one immediately after the other and was able to make a decision without any problem.

Although reviews by magazines are nice, I have found them not to be reflective of what I like in a car. Having a 6'2" tester tell me that the M-Coupe is too cramped and had no visibility just doesn't apply to me, being 5'5".

Ed

I don't say that Z4M is a bad car. Only IMHO when I finished test drive the feel I remember is not the one of a tight car. The engine is awesome, I know it very well from my wife's M3 SMG, and I pictured how great it's going to be with a smaller lighter car. But what was left in my memory was how unsettled the car was going through corners and out. Maybe I need another test drive or maybe I need to drive one with KW shocks. But for now there was too much body roll for this kind of power.

In my wild dreams I'd get Viper frame, put in M3 engine paired with SMG tranny and make it 2800lbs car. Oh well, maybe I am going to do just that:-)

I ended up with your fav color combo in a Z4 M coupe (Alpine white/Imola red).
I love the car but I felt the Cayman S was a better car.

But at a lot more money and to be honest I didnt want to strech my finances that thin.
If money were no object I'd order the Cayman S exactly as I want and it would cost near $80K.

But for the bargain the Z4 M is its great!

Cayman is better daily driver thats for sure.

But Z4M is raw car and I do love it.

There are a lot of reviews by journalists and average joes saying the Z4M can't handle. But like Hammond says, "Sometimes the problem is not with the car".

I may be biased, but if you do research, my opinion is fact. :)

Z4M > Boxster S.

These are power lap results from Top Gear.

1:26.0 – BMW Z4 M Roadster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Z4)
1:26.2 – Porsche 911 Carrera S (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_Carrera_S)
1:26.7 – Porsche Cayman S (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Cayman)
1:28.7 – Porsche Boxster S (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Boxster)

I would assume the Z4 M Coupe would be fractions of a second quicker than the Roadster variant due to the extra rigidity.

I drove a Boxster S and a Z4M Roadster back-to-back. Yes, the Boxster is easy to drive, yes, it is a Porsche, yes, it feels more refined - but if I was looking for refinement then I would have been better off in a 335i coupe.

The Z4M blew me away. I felt as though I was driving a real sports car as opposed to an appliance (I found myself having to redline the Porsche just to feel anything - to the extent where the salesman suggested I drive a 911). Plus, there was no way in hell I could get a loaded brand-new Boxster S (even a leftover '06 in '07) for 48.6k out the door w/nav.
Heck, ripping through the gears at 5500 rpm in the bimmer delivers the same rush as going to the redline in the Porsche.

My only complaints are the notchy gearbox and archaic nav system.

Hello all, first post... where as I agree with you all in terms of sheer power--the M-Roadster BRINGS IT. I disagree about the handling. I think the Boxster/Boxster S/Cayman/Cayman S models' handling are pretty much peerless for the street and the track. The M-Roadster's tail wants to step out. While this may be useful on the track (after learning the way your car responds to various situations), on the street the darn thing is a handful. The gearbox is notchy too... going to have to talk to service about that. Anybody know if in warmer weather or after the gear oil warms up, the shift feel improves? With that being said the deal offered to me on the last '07 M-Roadster in stock at the dealer I just started to work at is so good that I'd be a FOOL to go Porsche again. I'll just make an extra concious effort to not wipeout on the street.

Cayman in Red/sand is as stunning as a Ferrari. That's about it though. Nothing beats BMW in the low end torque.

i'm in socal and i haven't really noticed any notchiness in the shifter

I drove a 04 3.0i for three years...i traded it in this past fall for a 04 base boxster.. Its a stop gap move while I decide my next move....Z4M, boxster S, M3.

First, I disagree with anyone who says the fit and finish of the Z4 are superior to the boxster.

Second, there is no comparison in handling between a base boxster and a non M Z4. The boxster wins hands down. I also like the ride of the boxster better without the RFT.

If you are looking at a older base Z4 vs a boxster I would get the boxster in a heart beat.

If you are looking at a Z4m...the choice is less clear. Its really a personal choice.

If money is an issue get the Z4 or Z4M

If money is not an issue wait for the new limited edition 08 boxster before making up your mind.

According to my stealership, BMW owns Continental tire now. That explains a lot.

:rolleyes

I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

My 2cents in regards to the notchy shifting feel:

I don't know how many miles you have on your vehicles, I have just past 22K on my Z4MC.

It was notchy initially, but it was new and expected, since then it has gotten smoother over time.

Also I added a Clutch stop and a slightly heavier Shift knob(@10K), and It got rid of the kangaroo hop that I experienced when it was fresh (0-5K).

And if you leave it in sport mode and can shift fast enough, its seamless.

And I did not install the replacement CDV valve, It was the first item I purchased after reading all the forum entries about the dreaded kangaroo hop...but I don't think I need it anymore.

And for the claim that the Porsche Boxster/Cayman handling being peerless, I highly disagree.