My close friend who has the M3 and I decided to do couple of 0-90mph runs. We discovered this deserted road that seems like it used to serve as an air strip. As far as I know he has cai, exhaust, and an intake manifold swap. My friend is on these forums as well (Mpowr'd). My car has cai and exhaust and i had a passanger. First run, we both launch perfectly and we were head to head all the way to 90mph. Second run, my launch wasn't as good as the first one where i dropped my nose and he got me by quarter of a car length. We didn't have that much time to do more runs but it was a blast. Next time we'll have a camera to record all the good times.
Anyways, it was a great time and it was interesting to see how neck to neck our cars were. I must say though, if he didn't have that intake manifold, it might have been a different outcome. :evil2
I also just purchased one of those "beltronics vector fx2" device that records your 1/4 mile time, 0-60 and so on. 1/4 for my car (540i) was low 14's, and 0-60 was 6.0 seconds. This is with a passanger and he probably weighs about 180lbs.
I'm not happy with the numbers but it was def. good times. I have no doubt we'll do some more runs in the future and it will have cars like a 2000 S4, 2000 M coupe, and so on....

nice runs

unless you have a crazy fast stock 540...those two should be pretty much even... GOOD RUNS!!!!

I was really surprised at how well that intake manifold performed. I have had it for 8 months or so, but hadn't yet made any runs where I was neck and neck with someone. I was able to stay in each gear longer, making power all the way up tp the redline. Otherwise I would have been shifting much sooner and loosing acceleration. It was a good time and I'm glad we found an abandoned runway strip to use and not the open road.

I also made two runs against my friend's 2000 S4 that has software installed. The software claims to up the output of his car to 300-some-odd hp and 380ft lbs. I beat him both times by 1.5 carlengths, but he doesn't know how to launch his car yet. We are working on that. Against the S4 and the 540i, after the initial jump we stayed pretty even until 80 or so, when they started to gain on me. If Erkin and I would have kept going, he would have pulled me in.

Very nice run guys. Hope to watch vids next time. :)

My dad has an auto 540 and its actually really fast. I would not mind getting a man e39 540! Didnt know that it would hang with an e36 m tho! Thats really cool! I knew they were quick but not that quick! Thats good to know.

Yep, don't underestimate the 540's now. The auto is fairly even with the e36 m3 and the 6 speed can beat up on the M3 , it really becomes a driver's race . And heaven for bid you run one at highway speeds :embarrasm

My dad has an auto 540 and its actually really fast. I would not mind getting a man e39 540! Didnt know that it would hang with an e36 m tho! Thats really cool! I knew they were quick but not that quick! Thats good to know.

My car(6spd) is faster than bone stock E36 M3's. Driver is a significant part of the whole deal of course; especially on a track.

How would an e39 540i/6sp fair against an e46M3 on the highway? I guess the e46M3 would be faster based on stats, but wouldn't the 540/6sp put up a good fight?

I am not exactly sure just how fast the E46 M3 is...but I do know I am buying the 540i that I test drove yesterday. That car was wicked fast and Pulled very strong right from the bottom up...Jesus what a ROCKET...for 9.5K can't wait!!...

While I recognize that the 540i isn't the fastest car in the world...it definitely provides the most bang for the buck!

From what I read and that is all I can do at this point...the M3's shine in the twisties, the 540i has more top end at least that is what I understand from text.

How would an e39 540i/6sp fair against an e46M3 on the highway? I guess the e46M3 would be faster based on stats, but wouldn't the 540/6sp put up a good fight?

I am not exactly sure just how fast the E46 M3 is...but I do know I am buying the 540i that I test drove yesterday. That car was wicked fast and Pulled very strong right from the bottom up...Jesus what a ROCKET...for 9.5K can't wait!!...

While I recognize that the 540i isn't the fastest car in the world...it definitely provides the most bang for the buck!

From what I read and that is all I can do at this point...the M3's shine in the twisties, the 540i has more top end at least that is what I understand from text.


The 540 would get beaten up on the highway by the E46 M3 I believe. As far as the 540 6spd and the E36 M3 5spd coupe, I believe it is a drivers race in the 1/4 and when at highway speeds the E36 M3 just doesn't have the horses to keep up. Twisties? Ahahahaha.

There is no way a bone stock 540i will/can/would/could keep up with a E46 M3.. No way.. Doesn't matter if its highway, 1/4 mile or whatever it is. Believe me, been there, done that... NO WAY =)

The E46 is a more powerful car in all aspects. It's got more HP per ton, more HP period. A lighter car also.

Even with the more advanced 540 engine(M62TUB44) it still has 282 hp with 325 ft.lbs of torque. A good 50 HP less than the M3 but a good 56 ft.lbs more torque.


Only thing it will do is get the jump off the line til the S54 gets in its powerband.


The E36 though, 240 hp and 225 tq. In this case, the 540 has 42 more HP and 100 more ft.lbs of torque. Then the 540 has it on the highway, but I guess if the road got really twisty it would be a drivers race as the 540 would have the torque out of the turns.

The E46 is a more powerful car in all aspects. It's got more HP per ton, more HP period. A lighter car also.

Even with the more advanced 540 engine(M62TUB44) it still has 282 hp with 325 ft.lbs of torque. A good 50 HP less than the M3 but a good 56 ft.lbs more torque.


Only thing it will do is get the jump off the line til the S54 gets in its powerband.


The E36 though, 240 hp and 225 tq. In this case, the 540 has 42 more HP and 100 more ft.lbs of torque. Then the 540 has it on the highway, but I guess if the road got really twisty it would be a drivers race as the 540 would have the torque out of the turns.

Not that I am disagreeing with the E46 M3 winning (at highway speeds don't know for sure?), but the 540i DOES NOT have only 282 hp, they are underrated significantly from the factory. they typically dyno 260-270 at the wheels.

Also an important number to remember is Torque - where the 540 has a significant advantage (offsets weight difference).

The E36 M3 though, you are lacking it's best number, that is the weight. yes it has 240hp, but it is MUCH lighter than both the 540i and the E46 m3.

There is no way a bone stock 540i will/can/would/could keep up with a E46 M3.. No way.. Doesn't matter if its highway, 1/4 mile or whatever it is. Believe me, been there, done that... NO WAY =)

There are numerous stories of 540i/6's hanging within a CL of a E46 M3. There's one d00d on here who own a E46M and his previous car was a 540i/6 and he says that they're a close race at high speeds.

I raced a E46 M3 once and I won. It was at a red light and he didn't see me next to him. The lane was narrowing from 2 to 1 about 200 yards after the light. I gunned it and he realized what was happening and gunned it too, but it was already too late. I got the jump and my torque kept me ahead. He was pissed.

Without dumping the clutch, an E46 M will not run sub 5 second 0 - 60 times.

Without dumping the clutch, an E46 M will not run sub 5 second 0 - 60 times.

And a 540i will?

And a 540i will?

wtf :confused ... not even close. 540 will be lucky to run a sub 6 second 0 - 60; and without dumping the clutch, E46M will be brought down to 540i territory.

There are numerous stories of 540i/6's hanging within a CL of a E46 M3. There's one d00d on here who own a E46M and his previous car was a 540i/6 and he says that they're a close race at high speeds.

I raced a E46 M3 once and I won. It was at a red light and he didn't see me next to him. The lane was narrowing from 2 to 1 about 200 yards after the light. I gunned it and he realized what was happening and gunned it too, but it was already too late. I got the jump and my torque kept me ahead. He was pissed.

Without dumping the clutch, an E46 M will not run sub 5 second 0 - 60 times.

Without dumping the clutch? If you dumped the clutch you would just get accessive wheel spin and who cares about 0-60 times? What should these cars do in the 1/4 properly driven and which car is lighter and puts down more HP to the wheels? The E46 M3 wins in both categories and would win in the 1/4 mile and on the highway.

In the 1/4 the E46 M3 would win by several CL's( probably 3-5) and on the highway i would imagine it would be 2-4 CL's.

0 - 60 times are just a yard stick ...

I'm not sayin a 540 is as fast as a M3, but under certain circumstances it's well documented that a M3 won't just walk away from a 540.

A 540 will put up a good fight.

0 - 60 times are just a yard stick ...

I'm not sayin a 540 is as fast as a M3, but under certain circumstances it's well documented that a M3 won't just walk away from a 540.

A 540 will put up a good fight.


Put up a good fight in what situation? I can somewhat see a good fight on the highway, but in the 1/4 the 540, just like the E36 M3 gets eaten by the E46 M3 if all are in stock form.

I would consider a 2 CL loss to be a fight considering the weight and HP difference

Put up a good fight in what situation? I can somewhat see a good fight on the highway, but in the 1/4 the 540, just like the E36 M3 gets eaten by the E46 M3 if all are in stock form.

I would consider a 2 CL loss to be a fight considering the weight and HP difference

To be clear on the power weight - -

E46 M3 - 3400lb - 1/4 (magazine time :rolleyes 13.3 @ 105)
at the wheels
280 - 290 hp
235-245 f/tq


E39 540i 6sp- 3600lb - 1/4 (magazine time :rolleyes 14.0 @ 102-103)
at the wheels
270-280 hp
290-300 f/tq


Big differences not mentioned here is that the M3 has an LSD setup, and better gearing for off the line.

While at low speeds, weight is significant - 1/4mile times indicate roughly a tenth per 100pounds, also a tenth per 10hp.

Weight diff + bit more hp + launch/ gearing - easily explains those numbers.

Once moving - say 60mph plus - weight is no longer as significant. So what happens at speed, weight less of a factor, and tonnes of tq to push the wind? I am not sure if the differences would be quite as pronounced as the above.


...Not saying the E46 M3 would loose - ...but I have not seen / done it, and would not be so certain of an outcome.


Anyone have some track slips of E46 M3's and 540i's? I would be curious to see the times - 60ft, 1/8 ect...

I am guessing it would be pretty close between a E39 540i 6 and a E46 M3 on a highway run. 50-150... I have done the same races with my buddy in the same cars as the OP('99 540i 6 vs '99 M3 coupe). And the out come is even until the 540 shifts into 4th and you can wave good night to me...:eek: . In the end its good ole fun. :buttrock

Your friend should have worked you honestly.

I've inched on a 540 6sp stock

those are pretty good times

To be clear on the power weight - -


Once moving - say 60mph plus - weight is no longer as significant. So what happens at speed, weight less of a factor, and tonnes of tq to push the wind? I am not sure if the differences would be quite as pronounced as the above.



once moving, it's all about HP not TQ....advantage M3. also at speeds above 100mph, the Cd would come into play...advantage M3. i've owned 2 e36 m3's and now an e46 m3....there is a huge difference at high speeds. 540i has no chance against e46 m3.

How bout an SMG E46 M3, coupe or vert vs 540/6?

For what is worth I've held my own and have yet to be pulled on by either an E36 OR E46 M3.

With the NA E36 M3's I've run against it hasn't really been close. I'm even and barely inch a bit with speed on my friend's '99 Dinan S/C'ed M3 who put down 296rwhp. He has the advantage down low (LSD, weight; I have it up top from 50 on, displacement, torque).

I've run a couple E46 M3's and I've moved away from them as well from 60-65+. I believe one of them had an intake and exhaust as well.

...then again I'm not exactly "stock" either. My "go fast" mods include a M3 SSK, Dinan CAI, Dinan MAF, Dinan TB, pre-VANOS intake Manifold (same as Dinan's), Dinan Stage 4 S/W (still trying to justify getting the Stage 5) and a Magnaflow exhaust. Another guy with nearly the same mods as me (except he DIDN'T have the high flow mani, but did have a resonator delete and Hi-Flow cats) dyno'ed about 305 RWHP and like 320 or 330 RWTQ...

All in all great, quick cars with different attitudes. Numbers on a sheet of paper are great, but those are under ideal conditions and do not totally reflect what can happen on the road. Be safe out there fellas!

I have a very stock but strong running 540. The car is amazingly fast. It snaps from the stand still like it's being sling shot. I have never been outrun in any shape or form in my 540 by a E36 M3 in stock form. The E46 run i had was on the highway starting at about 60mph and i pulled on it by 1/2 car length by close to triple digits. From a stad still the E46 will beat me no doubt.

IMO the 540 is BMW's secret sleeper baby M5. The original posters 540 runs 0-60 in 6 seconds and a 1/4 in the 14's. Propably 14.4 or so i would assume.

His 540 is very weak and needs some good tuning. Those times are slow for 540's. There are 540's whose drives ren 1/4 miles in 12.9 sec. high 13's are a definite for a healthy one. Oh and BTW, mine's an auto.

The 540 is not very well known by non owners of them. Those who know and own them, KNOW, the wolf in sheep's clothing.

once moving, it's all about HP not TQ....advantage M3. also at speeds above 100mph, the Cd would come into play...advantage M3. i've owned 2 e36 m3's and now an e46 m3....there is a huge difference at high speeds. 540i has no chance against e46 m3.


Not true -

Torque is ALL important at the bottom of a new gear.......less important at higher RPM's.

For what is worth I've held my own and have yet to be pulled on by either an E36 OR E46 M3.

With the NA E36 M3's I've run against it hasn't really been close. I'm even and barely inch a bit with speed on my friend's '99 Dinan S/C'ed M3 who put down 296rwhp. He has the advantage down low (LSD, weight; I have it up top from 50 on, displacement, torque).

I've run a couple E46 M3's and I've moved away from them as well from 60-65+. I believe one of them had an intake and exhaust as well.

...then again I'm not exactly "stock" either. My "go fast" mods include a M3 SSK, Dinan CAI, Dinan MAF, Dinan TB, pre-VANOS intake Manifold (same as Dinan's), Dinan Stage 4 S/W (still trying to justify getting the Stage 5) and a Magnaflow exhaust. Another guy with nearly the same mods as me (except he DIDN'T have the high flow mani, but did have a resonator delete and Hi-Flow cats) dyno'ed about 305 RWHP and like 320 or 330 RWTQ...

All in all great, quick cars with different attitudes. Numbers on a sheet of paper are great, but those are under ideal conditions and do not totally reflect what can happen on the road. Be safe out there fellas!

you dynoed about 30 WHP MORE than the 540 I raced, you're almost in M5 range power wise.

Not true -

Torque is ALL important at the bottom of a new gear.......less important at higher RPM's.

torque measures a static force. horse power measures torque over time.
once you are moving only hp matters.

I have a very stock but strong running 540. The car is amazingly fast. It snaps from the stand still like it's being sling shot. I have never been outrun in any shape or form in my 540 by a E36 M3 in stock form. The E46 run i had was on the highway starting at about 60mph and i pulled on it by 1/2 car length by close to triple digits. From a stad still the E46 will beat me no doubt.

IMO the 540 is BMW's secret sleeper baby M5. The original posters 540 runs 0-60 in 6 seconds and a 1/4 in the 14's. Propably 14.4 or so i would assume.

His 540 is very weak and needs some good tuning. Those times are slow for 540's. There are 540's whose drives ren 1/4 miles in 12.9 sec. high 13's are a definite for a healthy one. Oh and BTW, mine's an auto.

The 540 is not very well known by non owners of them. Those who know and own them, KNOW, the wolf in sheep's clothing.

I don't have a 540. but i have raced one and what i experienced doesn't really match what you are saying.
are you telling us that a stock 540 is capable of a 12 second pass? if so, i have to call BS on that.

I own E36 M3 and used to own both E46 M3 6spd and 540ia (auto), 540s are the beasts! When my E36 M3 was stock I would outrun it by 2 CL to 130mph with AUTO 540! I once drove 540 6spd and let me tell you that it felt faster then my E46 M3 6spd, especialy after 40mph! Now if you look at the trap speeds of E46 M and 540 6spd, they are not to different! IMO 540 is definetly faster after 100mph with that big V8!:mad E46 Ms are not that great out of the roll, where BTW tq still matters, trust me, I had them both:D.

I don't have a 540. but i have raced one and what i experienced doesn't really match what you are saying.
are you telling us that a stock 540 is capable of a 12 second pass? if so, i have to call BS on that.

Just so you know there is only one known person who claims a low 13 or high 12 second 540 and that's because he gutted the entire car. And he lives somewhere in Europe.

He says he was able to remove about 500lbs of excess weight from the car. If a 3800lbs 540 is running low 14's than a 3300lbs 540 should have no problem hitting low 13's.

torque measures a static force. horse power measures torque over time.
once you are moving only hp matters.


No, again wrong.


Torque is a measure of twisting force, while Horsepower is torque * rpm / 5252.

Remember that wonderful 5252rpm number?

E39 540i - redlines at 6500rpm
E46 M3 redlines at 8000rpm

Numbers making sense? 540i has a stronger engine, but the M3 can stay in gear longer and has the power advantage (although not that great an advantage).

So what happens when you are farther up in speed where max RPM is no longer as large a factor Ie - higher speed? RPM per RPM which would have the advantage up until 6500?

the real answer requires a look at the torque curves of the cars...not to mention the gearing (gear multiplication)

also the numbers cannot be used outside of external factors such as resistance to motion (friction - due to air etc).

Just so you know there is only one known person who claims a low 13 or high 12 second 540 and that's because he gutted the entire car. And he lives somewhere in Europe.

He says he was able to remove about 500lbs of excess weight from the car. If a 3800lbs 540 is running low 14's than a 3300lbs 540 should have no problem hitting low 13's.


agreed -

Stock - no way anywhere near low 13's

LSD and gears, + driver mod? I could see mid 13's easy....

Just so you know there is only one known person who claims a low 13 or high 12 second 540 and that's because he gutted the entire car. And he lives somewhere in Europe.

He says he was able to remove about 500lbs of excess weight from the car. If a 3800lbs 540 is running low 14's than a 3300lbs 540 should have no problem hitting low 13's.

i guess that isn't stock then.

No, again wrong.


Torque is a measure of twisting force, while Horsepower is torque * rpm / 5252.

Remember that wonderful 5252rpm number?

E39 540i - redlines at 6500rpm
E46 M3 redlines at 8000rpm

Numbers making sense? 540i has a stronger engine, but the M3 can stay in gear longer and has the power advantage (although not that great an advantage).
I think maybe you should read up some more.
a motionless object can still exert torque, but it has no hp, and 0 speed. hp is the measure of how useful torque (force) can be over time (in engines, time is measured in RPMs; Revolutions Per Minute). more hp means a stronger engine.

So what happens when you are farther up in speed where max RPM is no longer as large a factor Ie - higher speed? RPM per RPM which would have the advantage up until 6500?
as you increase in speed, the range or rpm you spend in each gear dminishes, even though the amount of speed increase may stay the same or even increase. So as you shift up through the gears, you spend more and more of your time at the top of the RPM band, where peak HP is typically made. if you are trying to go fast, max (usable) RPM is always a factor.

the real answer requires a look at the torque curves of the cars...not to mention the gearing (gear multiplication)

also the numbers cannot be used outside of external factors such as resistance to motion (friction - due to air etc).
the M3 makes more torque at 8000RPM then the 540i does at 8000RPM. But what does that really tell you? the real answer requires a look at the hp curves of these two cars, which will tell you how much work they can actually do/how fast they can actually go.
being able to spin the engine faster also gives the M3 a gearing advantage. it can get to a higher speed without having to use gears ratios past 1 to 1.
example: i can only get to ~130mph in my car before shifting to an OD gear, so after 130, my car kinda starts to hurt. if i could move my power band up 1000RPM (meaning my peak HP), that would allow my to reach 150mph before going to OD. If i could spin to 8000RPM and still make the same power, that would put me at 170mph before going to OD.

it is funny that the american v8 guy is arguing for the importance of hp over torque and the bimmer guy is arguing for the opposite:stickoutt

All this explanation of HP and TQ. No one listened to the guy that Owned all 3 ...the E36 M3 the E39 540i-6 and the E46 M3. My experience says go with experience...LOL

Cant wait to get my 540-6 Sport next week

Sounds like this outcome could vary based on driver and car. Just like every race.

LSD and gears, + driver mod? I could see mid 13's easy....

+1 this is true. 3.15 LSD in a 6spd 540 will run in the 13's all day long if the driver knows what he's doin.

Seriously, could this comparison be any more played out??????? We're talking about two 10+ year old cars here - relax, be happy that you have daily transportation that's a little fun too..........

Not true -

Torque is ALL important at the bottom of a new gear.......less important at higher RPM's.

yup...and the "bottom" of a new gear for the e46 m3 is around 5000rpm...which btw is at the peak torque.

and do the math. the e46 m3 actually transfers more torque to the pavement than 540i due to gearing and revs. let's see, m3 has more HP, more torque, less weight, lower Cd.....hmmmm.

yup...and the "bottom" of a new gear for the e46 m3 is around 5000rpm...which btw is at the peak torque.

and do the math. the e46 m3 actually transfers more torque to the pavement than 540i due to gearing and revs. let's see, m3 has more HP, more torque, less weight, lower Cd.....hmmmm.

arent u a lil tipped off? :lol

nice

nice

+1

Seriously, could this comparison be any more played out??????? We're talking about two 10+ year old cars here - relax, be happy that you have daily transportation that's a little fun too..........\


It does not matter how old the car is. In fact it's funny that after so many years it's still a very potent contender. Power is power no matter the years. A beastly car is always a beastly car. And a 540 with 3.15 rear like mine snaps off the line so hard you may get whip lash if you;re not expecting it, lol! And mine is an auto. Yes some autos in the early years came with a sweet 3.15 ratio.

yup...and the "bottom" of a new gear for the e46 m3 is around 5000rpm...which btw is at the peak torque.

and do the math. the e46 m3 actually transfers more torque to the pavement than 540i due to gearing and revs. let's see, m3 has more HP, more torque, less weight, lower Cd.....hmmmm.

Isn't the ideal shift point a bit after the torque peak? This varies between cars but generally you want to "straddle" the horsepower curve so that when you shift b/t gears the HP remains relatively the same from one gear to another. So depending on the driver the potential exists that the 540i can produce a higher or similar average HP across a range when compared to an M3. So really any final drive advantage is offset by the 540i's ability to stay in the torque band better.

To clarify as well the tranny gearing is identical for the E46 M3 and 540i 6-speed correct? I know you were probably alluding to the final drive which should be 2.81 for the 540i and 3.62 for the M3...

When that is taken into account then yes the M3 will be pretty much "even" at one POINT for torque. However as mentioned above you don't race at one RPM level, you do it over a range. This is where the 540i has the advantage. The inherent design of the M62 V8 produces a pretty flat torque curve. Much flatter and broader than the M3's (although for a high reving i6 the M3's curve is flatter than most). So depending on the driver there potential exists that the 540i can produce a higher or similar average HP across the RPM range range when compared to an M3. Also as speeds increase the broader torque band helps fight wind resistance (drag), rolling friction, etc. Negligible items down low. Weight as well become less of a factor by I believe a cube or something with speed...

It has been said before that HP wins power claims, torque wins races :stickoutt

M3 Dyno: http://evosport.com/upload/e46m3/stock-vs-afe-8x6.jpg

Stock 540i/6 Dyno: http://bmw540ifun.com/Dynos/Greco2.jpg

***I just randomly picked two off the internet so please don't bash based on those two only. Dynos for each car can be higher and lower***

Also the E46 M3 has a Cd of approximately 0.32 whereas the 540i has been quoted as being b/t 0.29 and 0.31. Pretty much a wash, but a slight advantage to the e39 at speed.

Some more food for thought: the 540i has been tested as doing 0-150 in 30 seconds, the E46 M3, 35. So if the E46 has a quicker 0-60 and better quarter mile, then the 540 must be making it up somewhere...on the top end. Go ahead and flag this as a "gearing" restriction if you'd like, however if you put a 3.62 LSD in a 540i I'd bet it would probably be just as quick down low as an M3 and more willing up top with the torque. As it has been shown, guys with 3.15 rear ends are running easily in the 13's.

I'm not looking to start another argument; as somebody has said this has been covered a million times. However there are ALOT of factors that go into these types of things and to say "no", "never", "it is impossible" just begs for a rebuttal...

For the record I've considered and will consider again an E46 M3...just need to get rid of some of these "wonderful" student loans.

Isn't the ideal shift point a bit after the torque peak? This varies between cars but generally you want to "straddle" the horsepower curve so that when you shift b/t gears the HP remains relatively the same from one gear to another. So depending on the driver the potential exists that the 540i can produce a higher or similar average HP across a range when compared to an M3. So really any final drive advantage is offset by the 540i's ability to stay in the torque band better.

To clarify as well the tranny gearing is identical for the E46 M3 and 540i 6-speed correct? I know you were probably alluding to the final drive which should be 2.81 for the 540i and 3.62 for the M3...

When that is taken into account then yes the M3 will be pretty much "even" at one POINT for torque. However as mentioned above you don't race at one RPM level, you do it over a range. This is where the 540i has the advantage. The inherent design of the M62 V8 produces a pretty flat torque curve. Much flatter and broader than the M3's (although for a high reving i6 the M3's curve is flatter than most). So depending on the driver there potential exists that the 540i can produce a higher or similar average HP across the RPM range range when compared to an M3. Also as speeds increase the broader torque band helps fight wind resistance (drag), rolling friction, etc. Negligible items down low. Weight as well become less of a factor by I believe a cube or something with speed...

It has been said before that HP wins power claims, torque winds races :stickoutt

M3 Dyno: http://evosport.com/upload/e46m3/stock-vs-afe-8x6.jpg

Stock 540i/6 Dyno: http://bmw540ifun.com/Dynos/Greco2.jpg

***I just randomly picked two off the internet so please don't bash based on those two only. Dynos for each car can be higher and lower***

Also the E46 M3 has a Cd of approximately 0.32 whereas the 540i has been quoted as being b/t 0.29 and 0.31. Pretty much a wash, but a slight advantage to the e39 at speed.

Some more food for thought: the 540i has been tested as doing 0-150 in 30 seconds, the E46 M3, 35. So if the E46 has a quicker 0-60 and better quarter mile, then the 540 must be making it up somewhere...on the top end. Go ahead and flag this as a "gearing" restriction if you'd like, however if you put a 3.62 LSD in a 540i I'd bet it would probably be just as quick down low as an M3 and more willing up top with the torque. As it has been shown, guys with 3.15 rear ends are running easily in the 13's.

I'm not looking to start another argument; as somebody has said this has been covered a million times. However there are ALOT of factors that go into these types of things and to say "no", "never", "it is impossible" just begs for a rebuttal...

For the record I've considered and will consider again an E46 M3...just need to get rid of some of these "wonderful" student loans.

i find your posts well thought out, logical and non bias toward any car. It's more then i can say for myself currently. Nice job.

The 540 is very very underrated and sidelined. Which is fine for me. It's exactly what i wanted in a car. Power, performance, quality and noone but a few knowing about it. Let them think it's a slow boat. LOL!

Someone's got to find that old Car & Driver comparison where a 540 was able to run to 150 faster than that SS Chevy and some other dedicated sports cars. I was like 15 when that article was published and I remember being blow away by how much time the 540 made up after 100mph. Even the C & D editors were impressed.

People w/ no experience in a 540 probably think we're all quacks. 282HP 3750lbs vs. 333HP 3400lbs. The numbers on paper will never tell the whole story.

So So true. i remember when i first got the 540 and floored it merging with traffic. I could not believe the pull. It kept pulling and pining me in the seat till i let off the gas @ 120 mph. I remember being so blown away i kept taking me parent for a ride and they were shocked at the brutality of the cars engine. And they own a 03 V8 Q45. So they are used to some stomp by now.

Needless to say, i love my 540. It;s the perfect car imo. There is NOTHING on it or about it that needs changing. (lighting excluded)

i find your posts well thought out, logical and non bias toward any car. It's more then i can say for myself currently. Nice job.



Well thank you. I think they call it an addiction?

I need a life...:rolleyes

LOL. No way! This IS the life bro. What more do you need when you hear that muffled 540 V8 sounding like a growling tiger under the hood. Damn, i get all giddy just thinking about it.

I miss my 540i a lot, they are so cheap these days, it would be worth it buying it as a second car if they didn't have such a horrible gas milage, when i had mine I avaraged 16mpg and I drive on a freeways a lot! (my C32 with 350hp avarages 19mpg!)

Your wish is my command:

*zap*


http://www4.ncsu.edu/~lichides/images/0-150-0.jpg

I think the 540 was around 35 seconds 0-150.

Your wish is my command:

*zap*


http://www4.ncsu.edu/~lichides/images/0-150-0.jpg

I think the 540 was around 35 seconds 0-150.

I stand corrected and you are right the 540i does it in about 34.7 according to the C&D test. Maybe it is your M5 that I remember hitting the 30 seconds mark :stickoutt

(Only link I could find quoting the article: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9507293&postcount=20 )

Even so it is slightly quicker or about even to the E46 M3 and since the M has the advantage down low then the 540i must be making it back up top. Hence why highway runs b/t the two isn't heavily favored either way.

I just posted that because I happened to have it on hand, not trying to cast my opinion either way. I will say that 540s really come alive up top like very few other nearly-stock cars I've ever experienced. It's not that they're blazingly fast at high speed or particularly slow down low, but the difference between the performance 0-60 and then 100-150 is quite shocking nonetheless.

I've just got to drive another E46 M3 again to refresh my memory on what they're capable of. I don't think my friend's Z4M is an entirely fair comparison.

if any of you looked at those dynos that were posted you will see that the e46 m3 has torque peak at ~4.5K RPM and the 540 has it's torque peak at ~4.5k RPM.
so, since torque is most important and wins races, why aren't you guys shifting your M3s and 540's at 5kRPM? is it because you haven't hit your power band yet?
the M3 is over 250hp for more then 2KRPM( 6K to 8K), the 540i is over 250HP for 1.5K RPM (4.5K to 6K).

My GTA has more torque then my LS1. The only place my GTA has a chance is getting across an intersection, as soon as we pass the far crosswalk the LS1's higher horsepower shoots it down the road so fast it peels paint off the GTA (stock for stock).

Your wish is my command:

*zap*


http://www4.ncsu.edu/%7Elichides/images/0-150-0.jpg

I think the 540 was around 35 seconds 0-150.

awesome. every car in this test ran the q/m in 13 something @ 100+ 'cept the 540...

..and a 14 flat @ 103 is a amazing run for a stock 540.

Isn't the ideal shift point a bit after the torque peak? This varies between cars but generally you want to "straddle" the horsepower curve so that when you shift b/t gears the HP remains relatively the same from one gear to another. So depending on the driver the potential exists that the 540i can produce a higher or similar average HP across a range when compared to an M3. So really any final drive advantage is offset by the 540i's ability to stay in the torque band better.

To clarify as well the tranny gearing is identical for the E46 M3 and 540i 6-speed correct? I know you were probably alluding to the final drive which should be 2.81 for the 540i and 3.62 for the M3...

When that is taken into account then yes the M3 will be pretty much "even" at one POINT for torque. However as mentioned above you don't race at one RPM level, you do it over a range. This is where the 540i has the advantage. The inherent design of the M62 V8 produces a pretty flat torque curve. Much flatter and broader than the M3's (although for a high reving i6 the M3's curve is flatter than most). So depending on the driver there potential exists that the 540i can produce a higher or similar average HP across the RPM range range when compared to an M3. Also as speeds increase the broader torque band helps fight wind resistance (drag), rolling friction, etc. Negligible items down low. Weight as well become less of a factor by I believe a cube or something with speed...

It has been said before that HP wins power claims, torque wins races :stickoutt

M3 Dyno: http://evosport.com/upload/e46m3/stock-vs-afe-8x6.jpg

Stock 540i/6 Dyno: http://bmw540ifun.com/Dynos/Greco2.jpg

***I just randomly picked two off the internet so please don't bash based on those two only. Dynos for each car can be higher and lower***

Also the E46 M3 has a Cd of approximately 0.32 whereas the 540i has been quoted as being b/t 0.29 and 0.31. Pretty much a wash, but a slight advantage to the e39 at speed.

Some more food for thought: the 540i has been tested as doing 0-150 in 30 seconds, the E46 M3, 35. So if the E46 has a quicker 0-60 and better quarter mile, then the 540 must be making it up somewhere...on the top end. Go ahead and flag this as a "gearing" restriction if you'd like, however if you put a 3.62 LSD in a 540i I'd bet it would probably be just as quick down low as an M3 and more willing up top with the torque. As it has been shown, guys with 3.15 rear ends are running easily in the 13's.

I'm not looking to start another argument; as somebody has said this has been covered a million times. However there are ALOT of factors that go into these types of things and to say "no", "never", "it is impossible" just begs for a rebuttal...

For the record I've considered and will consider again an E46 M3...just need to get rid of some of these "wonderful" student loans.

the ideal shift point is when you can be at the peak torque in the next gear. so for e46 m3, when i shift at 8200rpm, it lands around 5000rpm in the next gear (most of the time). so in my racecar, i always changed gears to match not only the turns of the track, but also to optimize the gear shifts.

the "problem" w/ gearing down the 540 any more than 2.81 is that you run out of revs very quickly....so you might be shifting much more frequently to generate any speed. it will definitely put down more torque w/ the lower gearing....that's how the m3 actually transfers more torque than the V8 of 540. but, you need revs to do that. don't you wonder why the F1 cars rev to 19,000 rpm w/ very little torque. once moving, it's all about HP and revs....not torque. you can "make up" torque by gearing down. torque wins races.....at drag races where you start from 0 and fatter initial torque curve really helps. torque does not win races at the track/highway....even if you assume similar handling characteristics.

my only race experience w/ a 540 w/ at a track where i passed it at 110mph as if it was standing still. granted, i'm an instructor and he was a student so i'm exiting at a much higher speed....but the 50HP difference is huge at high speeds.

as for the Cd, you're right and i'm surprised that m3 has higher coefficient.

if any of you looked at those dynos that were posted you will see that the e46 m3 has torque peak at ~4.5K RPM and the 540 has it's torque peak at ~4.5k RPM.
so, since torque is most important and wins races, why aren't you guys shifting your M3s and 540's at 5kRPM? is it because you haven't hit your power band yet?
the M3 is over 250hp for more then 2KRPM( 6K to 8K), the 540i is over 250HP for 1.5K RPM (4.5K to 6K).

My GTA has more torque then my LS1. The only place my GTA has a chance is getting across an intersection, as soon as we pass the far crosswalk the LS1's higher horsepower shoots it down the road so fast it peels paint off the GTA (stock for stock).


You are correct about not shifting at peak torque - but it seems you are the one that still needs research.

not the same engines as your two cars - but info based on LT1 vs L98... what really matters is the Torque curve - width - and for how long...

http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

the ideal shift point is when you can be at the peak torque in the next gear. so for e46 m3, when i shift at 8200rpm, it lands around 5000rpm in the next gear (most of the time). so in my racecar, i always changed gears to match not only the turns of the track, but also to optimize the gear shifts.

the "problem" w/ gearing down the 540 any more than 2.81 is that you run out of revs very quickly....so you might be shifting much more frequently to generate any speed. it will definitely put down more torque w/ the lower gearing....that's how the m3 actually transfers more torque than the V8 of 540. but, you need revs to do that. don't you wonder why the F1 cars rev to 19,000 rpm w/ very little torque. once moving, it's all about HP and revs....not torque. you can "make up" torque by gearing down. torque wins races.....at drag races where you start from 0 and fatter initial torque curve really helps. torque does not win races at the track/highway....even if you assume similar handling characteristics.

my only race experience w/ a 540 w/ at a track where i passed it at 110mph as if it was standing still. granted, i'm an instructor and he was a student so i'm exiting at a much higher speed....but the 50HP difference is huge at high speeds.

as for the Cd, you're right and i'm surprised that m3 has higher coefficient.


50hp? how do you fiqure that?

There you guys go again with how much hp or tq is at what rpms! Who cares, do you know anybody that raced E46 M3 and 540i 6pd and has it on the video? I had both cars (540i auto) and I can tell you that out of roll start E46 M3 is not that much faster then 540i! Actualy after 100mph 540i will pull on the M3!

i found this article when searching for the HP and torque of a F1 car....very detailed overview w/ practical examples. some quotes:

"Horsepower sells motor cars, but torque wins motor races." This couldn’t be further from the truth.

"At one extreme we have a Honda F1 motor which revs to 18,000 rpm, makes nearly 800 horsepower, but a measly 281 ft.-lbs. of torque. At the other end of the spectrum we have the Cummins turbo diesel available in the 2003 Dodge Ram which makes a whopping 555 ft.-lbs. of torque, but only 305 horsepower. So which one do you think will accelerate faster?"

"So there it is. Horsepower is the determining factor in the rate of acceleration of any vehicle."

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html

the ideal shift point is when you can be at the peak torque in the next gear. so for e46 m3, when i shift at 8200rpm, it lands around 5000rpm in the next gear (most of the time). so in my racecar, i always changed gears to match not only the turns of the track, but also to optimize the gear shifts.

the "problem" w/ gearing down the 540 any more than 2.81 is that you run out of revs very quickly....so you might be shifting much more frequently to generate any speed. it will definitely put down more torque w/ the lower gearing....that's how the m3 actually transfers more torque than the V8 of 540. but, you need revs to do that. don't you wonder why the F1 cars rev to 19,000 rpm w/ very little torque. once moving, it's all about HP and revs....not torque. you can "make up" torque by gearing down. torque wins races.....at drag races where you start from 0 and fatter initial torque curve really helps. torque does not win races at the track/highway....even if you assume similar handling characteristics.

my only race experience w/ a 540 w/ at a track where i passed it at 110mph as if it was standing still. granted, i'm an instructor and he was a student so i'm exiting at a much higher speed....but the 50HP difference is huge at high speeds.

as for the Cd, you're right and i'm surprised that m3 has higher coefficient.

I probably didn't word what I was saying to be 100% clear. I know that you're not suppossed to shift "right at the torque curve" of the current gear but as you have said, for that of the next gear. That for putting that in "cleaner" terms :D

I merely meant that by shifting at a point past the torque curve of the current gear you're suppossed to place yourself (as you have said) right on the highest torque peak of the next gear where the most available HP is at (most of the time). So when you shift gears ideally you don't loose any usable HP.

Your point about the 540 "running out of gears" is understood but I'm not sure I agree 100%. Yes the RPM's don't climb nearly as high as the M3 however that is pretty negligible due to the differences in the motors. One is a V8 with a low RPM range and the other is a high Revving i6. If anything the M3 will be trickier when trying to stay in the powerband whereas the 540i will be a bit more forgiving due the the major amount of torque spread across the band.

Also and I'm sure you didn't mean to word it like you did, but if the 540i is "running" out of rev's quick and shifting quicker then won't it be covering more ground and thus be going faster than the M3? I can take 3rd up quite a bit then I'll be sitting in 4th at RPMs where my peak HP is being reached and torque stays high as well over a larger period. With higher numerical gears the M3 will be the one requiring more shifting seeing as how the tranny ratios are identical.

I shouldn't have said that torque wins races, it helps but doesn't falt out win them. F1 cars are ALOT different than most cars as well. I could just as easily say that the torque laden Audi TDi Le Mans car wins because of torque; different beasts there. I do believe however that on tighter tracks torque will win, but on longer higher speed ones HP may have the advantage all else being equal.

...and you should have taken the 540i on the track. That is a given! No arguments there!

i found this article when searching for the HP and torque of a F1 car....very detailed overview w/ practical examples. some quotes:

"Horsepower sells motor cars, but torque wins motor races." This couldn’t be further from the truth.

"At one extreme we have a Honda F1 motor which revs to 18,000 rpm, makes nearly 800 horsepower, but a measly 281 ft.-lbs. of torque. At the other end of the spectrum we have the Cummins turbo diesel available in the 2003 Dodge Ram which makes a whopping 555 ft.-lbs. of torque, but only 305 horsepower. So which one do you think will accelerate faster?"

"So there it is. Horsepower is the determining factor in the rate of acceleration of any vehicle."

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html

How much does the F1 car weight? how much for the Truck? What gearing? what about drag?

No where near that simple. HP is a Calculation pf Torque and RPM!!!

HP NEVER determines acceleration, it is more accurately used for speed.

Your wish is my command:

*zap*


http://www4.ncsu.edu/~lichides/images/0-150-0.jpg

I think the 540 was around 35 seconds 0-150.

:eek: That's very impressive. The 540 outran a 911 (in addition to the z28 ss) to 150mph. Given those stats, an e46M3 will have its hands full with a 540 at triple digit speeds. (Anyone know the 0-150 times for the e46M3?) Of course, anyone with video of a real encounter between the two would be ideal.

I probably didn't word what I was saying to be 100% clear. I know that you're not suppossed to shift "right at the torque curve" of the current gear but as you have said, for that of the next gear. That for putting that in "cleaner" terms :D

I merely meant that by shifting at a point past the torque curve of the current gear you're suppossed to place yourself (as you have said) right on the highest torque peak of the next gear where the most available HP is at (most of the time). So when you shift gears ideally you don't loose any usable HP.

Your point about the 540 "running out of gears" is understood but I'm not sure I agree 100%. Yes the RPM's don't climb nearly as high as the M3 however that is pretty negligible due to the differences in the motors. One is a V8 with a low RPM range and the other is a high Revving i6. If anything the M3 will be trickier when trying to stay in the powerband whereas the 540i will be a bit more forgiving due the the major amount of torque spread across the band.

Also and I'm sure you didn't mean to word it like you did, but if the 540i is "running" out of rev's quick and shifting quicker then won't it be covering more ground and thus be going faster than the M3? I can take 3rd up quite a bit then I'll be sitting in 4th at RPMs where my peak HP is being reached and torque stays high as well over a larger period. With higher numerical gears the M3 will be the one requiring more shifting seeing as how the tranny ratios are identical.

I shouldn't have said that torque wins races, it helps but doesn't falt out win them. F1 cars are ALOT different than most cars as well. I could just as easily say that the torque laden Audi TDi Le Mans car wins because of torque; different beasts there. I do believe however that on tighter tracks torque will win, but on longer higher speed ones HP may have the advantage all else being equal.

...and you should have taken the 540i on the track. That is a given! No arguments there!



Good point about the new F1 diesels - forgot about them - and they are AWESOME.

How much does the F1 car weight? how much for the Truck? What gearing? what about drag?

No where near that simple. HP is a Calculation pf Torque and RPM!!!

HP NEVER determines acceleration, it is more accurately used for speed.

wow.....HP NEVER determines acceleration....i think you might have a few folks disagree w/ that statement.

let's assume that the F1 car and the truck weighs the same, w/ same drag, etc.....who do you think will win. and if torque wins out at the end, why are the F1 teams building $2M engine for high HP?

you should try to read the article.....

wow.....HP NEVER determines acceleration....i think you might have a few folks disagree w/ that statement.

let's assume that the F1 car and the truck weighs the same, w/ same drag, etc.....who do you think will win. and if torque wins out at the end, why are the F1 teams building $2M engine for high HP?

you should try to read the article.....

Why are they spending a bundle on a DOMINATING diesel with 840 foot pounds of torque? Also the article is flawed. try this - limit the F1 engine to the same rpm range as the dodge. Who wins? Torque is a force, Hp is a measure of work (not a force). Something that is not a force cannot exert a force such as inertia or motion, therefore cannot accelerate an object.

Now lets all take a moment to appreciate how much we all love pointless bf.c debates :stickoutt

...seriously though of all the little 'tiffs I've run into I'm just glad this one is somewhat "respectful" and not just a bunch of pointless name calling and non-factual babel...

Now back to the action. M3 advantage low, 540i possible advantage up top. Go!

Why are they spending a bundle on a DOMINATING diesel with 840 foot pounds of torque? Also the article is flawed. try this - limit the F1 engine to the same rpm range as the dodge. Who wins? Torque is a force, Hp is a measure of work (not a force). Something that is not a force cannot exert a force such as inertia or motion, therefore cannot accelerate an object.

hahaha. ok. acceleration = change in speed/time

torque is measured in foot-lb. so by definition, torque has no motion associated with it since there is no time element. you can apply 1000 foot-lb without any motion. hard to accelerate a car w/o motion.

as for the audi, due to the lower HP of the diesel, i believe that the race organizers allowed for a larger opening in the intake restrictor plate for the audi vs. all gasoline engines....that's why many LMP1 cars are boycotting the lemans. given the same restrictor plates, engine size, boose, etc. the audi would be toast.

btw, comparing F1 engines to anything else (including lemans, ALMS, grand am, CART, Indy) is a bit silly.... F1 guys have essentially an unlimited budget to create the fastest cars/engines. they have a good reason to choose HP or torque.....but maybe you know more than those folks.

\


It does not matter how old the car is. In fact it's funny that after so many years it's still a very potent contender. Power is power no matter the years. A beastly car is always a beastly car. And a 540 with 3.15 rear like mine snaps off the line so hard you may get whip lash if you;re not expecting it, lol! And mine is an auto. Yes some autos in the early years came with a sweet 3.15 ratio.


Mid 98 and up right?Cuz mine's 97 and I have 2.81 :(

Wow, this thread has gotten way off topic! We started out posting about a couple of runs we did with a 540i6, M3, and an S4. Since our first post Erkin has fixed a vaccum leak, so we need to do those runs again.

Wow, this thread has gotten way off topic! We started out posting about a couple of runs we did with a 540i6, M3, and an S4. Since our first post Erkin has fixed a vaccum leak, so we need to do those runs again.

I agree, however after reading the posts, i want to find a few mile long strech and go against a E46 M3 all the way to the top end to see what happens :evil2

I agree, however after reading the posts, i want to find a few mile long strech and go against a E46 M3 all the way to the top end to see what happens :evil2

hey if you're ever up north....near Virginia/WV, there is a very safe place where we can do this w/o worrying about cops, traffic, etc.

like i said before, i only have experience w/ the e36 and e46 m3's. the track has a 5/8 mile long front straight. my e36 had ECIS, dinan chip, supersprint, slotted rotors, hawk blues, sways, and BFG R1's (probably around 270hp). my e46 is completely stock w/ stock tires. assuming that both e36 and e46 comes out of the last turn about the same speed (around 80mph), the e36 tops out at 125mph before i had to brake for turn 1. the e46 tops out at 145 before i have to brake. so although the e46 weighs more, probably handles worse, the speed at the end of the straight is faster by 20mph....which is huge.

http://www.car-videos.net/performance/view.asp?id1=12&id2=0

m3 0-150

Also has a list of a bunch of other cars

http://www.car-videos.net/performance/view.asp?id1=12&id2=0

m3 0-150

Also has a list of a bunch of other cars

I compared it to a 2001 auto 540i and an E46 M3 is faster... However, link says that an '01 540 runs a 15 sec 1/4 mile :confused Say whaaaaaaaaaaaa? I mean I kno, its not manual and its VANOS 540 with smaller intake manifold runners, but man I ran 14.6 sec on an 80 degree day with no (and I mean NO) traction till the middle of 2nd gear, no way any auto 540 cant do AT LEAST the same :nono

Ye some of the times might be on the slower side but there are legit times if you look. Its one of the few sites I've found that has a bunch of stats and models.

So it proves that 540i 6spd is a bit faster according to C and D test to 150mph, also keep in mind that on that test it shows that M3 did 4.6sec 0-60 which most likely won't be the case for avarage driver! 540 6spd is a beast!

So it proves that 540i 6spd is a bit faster according to C and D test to 150mph, also keep in mind that on that test it shows that M3 did 4.6sec 0-60 which most likely won't be the case for avarage driver! 540 6spd is a beast!


Wow!!!! I am surprised. I did not expect to see that.

M3 - 0 to 150mph 35.1 seconds
540i 6sp - 0 to 150mph 34.7 seconds

Considering both sources show the M3 beating the 540i convincingly in the 1/4, the 540i must be doing serious hauling up top......

Wow!!!! I am surprised. I did not expect to see that.

M3 - 0 to 150mph 35.1 seconds
540i 6sp - 0 to 150mph 34.7 seconds

Considering both sources show the M3 beating the 540i convincingly in the 1/4, the 540i must be doing serious hauling up top......

this raises an interesting question. Given that ALL YEAR MANUALS had 2.81 rear end and automatic equipped cars came with 3.15 rear end starting mid '98, then what are the chances of an automatic 3.15 rear end 540 against an M3? Assuming that a 2.81 MANUAL 540 is faster than a M3 by .4 secs, if swapped for 3.15 it should be even faster. However, I wonder if a 3.15 AUTOMATIC can compensate for the tranny diff between 2.81 540 MANUAL and at least do 0-150 in under 35secs, or if not then by how much will it be slower than a M3. These are stock gearings for the E39, so we're comparing stock vs stock (dunno bout gearing on the M3), without going into custom made 3.46 or 3.62 diffs. Also I dunno what tranny (manual/smg???) and what generation (E36/E46???) M3 produced those numbers.

P.S. I hope I explained myself correctly. Here's how it goes:

540 manual (stock 2.81 diff ALL MODEL YEARS) > M3
540 manual (if swapped for a 3.15 diff that came on autos starting mid '98) >> M3
questions is if a 540 automatic (stock with 3.15 diff starting mid '98) is = to a 540 manual (with stock 2.81 diff)

if it is then it also > M3
if its not then M3 MOST LIKELY > 540 automatic (3.15 diff) and I wonder by HOW MUCH?

These two cars should get together and do some runs. They don't have to be to 150 either btw..

Im game if there is an M3 near by :)

So it proves that 540i 6spd is a bit faster according to C and D test to 150mph, also keep in mind that on that test it shows that M3 did 4.6sec 0-60 which most likely won't be the case for avarage driver! 540 6spd is a beast!

hahaha....the only thing that this proves is that if you are highly biased, you can select data points from many different references to make your case. if you want to use a reference to support your argument, wouldn't it make sense to at least be consistent enough to use the same reference for both cars? since the graph that you use for the 540 did not have the numbers for the E46 M3 0-150, i did a quick search and found out what C&D actually measured for E46 M3 and found this on another thread.

"M3
0-60 4.7
0-100 11.7
1/4 mi 13.1 @107
0-150 27.8

The numbers come from C&D. The first two are from the initial road test of the M3 and the 1/4 mi time comes from the long-term test car (all 6-spd). The 0-150 time is from the SMG car they tested in July, 2002, which was slower in every test than the 6-spd. Based on the numbers they got, you can estimate a 0-150 time of 27 flat for the 6-spd."

hahaha....the only thing that this proves is that if you are highly biased, you can select data points from many different references to make your case. if you want to use a reference to support your argument, wouldn't it make sense to at least be consistent enough to use the same reference for both cars? since the graph that you use for the 540 did not have the numbers for the E46 M3 0-150, i did a quick search and found out what C&D actually measured for E46 M3 and found this on another thread.

"M3
0-60 4.7
0-100 11.7
1/4 mi 13.1 @107
0-150 27.8

The numbers come from C&D. The first two are from the initial road test of the M3 and the 1/4 mi time comes from the long-term test car (all 6-spd). The 0-150 time is from the SMG car they tested in July, 2002, which was slower in every test than the 6-spd. Based on the numbers they got, you can estimate a 0-150 time of 27 flat for the 6-spd."


??

Faster than the vette ? yeh - I believe that...

only one way to settle this. I need a volunteer with a 540


I can run them in my E36 M3 and my E46 M3. My money is on both my M3's till atleast 120. after that I'm not sure.

I have owned a 540iA before, and it was fast after it got rolling.