I am wondering what people here usually use for engine oil.
I have a 07 Z4 3.0si and I am thinking about 5w-30 mobil1.
I used to use ams but I am thinking if it's too much money for engine oil.
My friend seems to always get engine oil from the dealer (BMW oil).

Check and see if you oil cap has any info on it. The one on my '07 328xi says it likes Castrol so I can assume that the Castrol synthetic would work, as well as Mobil 1 0W40. I have read that Castrol needs to be the European type but that is second hand information. I haven't done any reading but I don't know if Mobil 1 5W30 meets the BMW standard.

Gary

I also get the BMW oil from the dealer. The 5W30 is made by Castrol but its different than Syntec (not sure how). If you are a BMWCCA member the discount makes it around $5 a quart which you can't beat in my opinion. And while you are there you can grab a new filter and drain plug! One stop shopping....

Good explanation of which oils you should use.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265292

I am wondering what people here usually use for engine oil.
I have a 07 Z4 3.0si and I am thinking about 5w-30 mobil1.
I used to use ams but I am thinking if it's too much money for engine oil.
My friend seems to always get engine oil from the dealer (BMW oil).

Oil is part of the 4 years covered maintenance. Just take it to the dealer and they will put in whatever is recommended. You have already paid for it when you bought the car, don't pay for it again.

I am wondering what people here usually use for engine oil.
I have a 07 Z4 3.0si and I am thinking about 5w-30 mobil1.
I used to use ams but I am thinking if it's too much money for engine oil.
My friend seems to always get engine oil from the dealer (BMW oil).
Do what your friend does. I still have 5 quarts of dealer oil left from my previous car (an oil change that never happened). I am covered for any oil loss for probably as long as I have the car.

Oil is part of the 4 years covered maintenance. Just take it to the dealer and they will put in whatever is recommended. You have already paid for it when you bought the car, don't pay for it again.


Thanks for all the replies and thanks for the link.
I don't want to wait 15000miles between oil changes, since it just doesn't make sense to me. I'm trying to get the first oil change done to get any metal shavings out of the engine and planning on doing 1 in between oil changes (every 7500 miles).

Take your car to the dealer and pay the $ 95.00 for them to perform the oil change.
This way no one can say that you, or a non BMW service center, caused damage that would void your warranty.
This assumes that an extra $ 95.00 per year is within your budget.
Also, the oil filter would pick up any metal shavings and not allow them to be in your oil.
If there is indeed that much metal suspended in the oil, you have a much greater problem that will rear it's ugly head very soon.

Al. Wise

Definitely steer clear of M1 5w30 like stated in the other post that is linked. The cSt of that oil is borderline 20 weight, and that is when it is fresh...

Or just trust that BMW isn't trying to ruin your car and their rep. There are 100 threads on this and it's just hard for people to get rid of the marketing that we've been fed here. The difference is that oils are in "classes" the crap that you need to change every month is Class 1, Synthetic are 2-4 (I think).

Who has metal shavings, lol. This isn't built in a garage it's a state of the art CNC'd engine that is run and tested before installation. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised that they run an engine and drain the oil at the factory. But somebody show me these "shavings" and I'll change my oil....or buy one of those magnets...which ironically doesn't do anything for aluminum :)

I don't think any of the wear surfaces would be aluminum.......

I don't think any of the wear surfaces would be aluminum.......

There are aluminum pistons, rods, and I think they are sleeved....I am trying to remember if this is an aluminum block or not.

Or just trust that BMW isn't trying to ruin your car and their rep. There are 100 threads on this and it's just hard for people to get rid of the marketing that we've been fed here. The difference is that oils are in "classes" the crap that you need to change every month is Class 1, Synthetic are 2-4 (I think).
Cool, someone else criticizing marketing :D.

I don't think any of the wear surfaces would be aluminum.......

Camsafts are often run directly in the aluminum head castings in some vehicles. I don't know about the BMW specificly but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.

There are aluminum pistons, rods, and I think they are sleeved....I am trying to remember if this is an aluminum block or not.

The engine block in the 328Xi is of a "high magnesium content aluminum alloy"

Camshafts are often run directly in the aluminum head castings in some vehicles.

That would be news to me. Are the cams aluminum too?

Camshafts are often run directly in the aluminum head castings in some vehicles.

That would be news to me. Are the cams aluminum too?

No. Most are steel. Some are made of cast iron.

Aluminum works much like bronze or other bearing material. The oil film keeps the moving parts adequately separated.

I can't imagine running a steel crank in aluminum bearing surfaces.

Bronze is the softest material I've seen used for bearing surfaces on a normal automotive engine. I think it's possible to use softer metals in truly high performance applications, but I would be surprised to find that in a a street car.

Or just trust that BMW isn't trying to ruin your car and their rep. There are 100 threads on this and it's just hard for people to get rid of the marketing that we've been fed here. The difference is that oils are in "classes" the crap that you need to change every month is Class 1, Synthetic are 2-4 (I think).

Who has metal shavings, lol. This isn't built in a garage it's a state of the art CNC'd engine that is run and tested before installation. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised that they run an engine and drain the oil at the factory. But somebody show me these "shavings" and I'll change my oil....or buy one of those magnets...which ironically doesn't do anything for aluminum

With all due respect I disagree.

BMW has had some major oil related engine problems in the past.

On the broad issue of maintenance practices, of which oil changes are just one small part, different operators with different operating environments and/or expectations for service life and reliably can and will have different service intervals. This applies to airplanes, heavy equipment, ships and even BMWs.

With regard to wear metals, there are several oil analysis’s posted from the first oil change. Even the very early ones show higher than normal levels for wear metals and silicone.

As for the OP’s original question, LL-01 or LL-04 is really all one needs to be looking for. BMW has an oil standard, and I have never seen a reasoned argument for ignoring it (IMO of course). And also with regard to the original post, the Mobil 1 5W-30 with BMW approval (LL-04) is Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP. This is tough to find, and it is not at all like the Mobil 1 5W-30 at the big box stores. Mobil 1 0W-40 with LL-01 is more readily available. Or just get the BMW oil.

I believe the N54 is an all Aluminum block with iron cylinders liners. The N52 is also the same thing.

I had read that the twin-turbo engine blocks were all aluminum and the normally aspirated motors had engine blocks of aluminum/magnesium matrix.
Both engine blocks use steel cylinder sleeves. The last car motor that I had seen use cylinders of aluminum without a steel sleeve were the Chevy Vega's of the early seventies. Those motors wore out in less than 40K miles.

Crankshafts, camshafts, and other high stress rotating components typically ride on shim type bearings of a tri-metal construction. This tri-metal is typically layers of copper, nickel, and aluminum. I have not built/rebuilt a motor that had cranks or cams running directly on the aluminum block
surface.


Al. Wise

With all due respect I disagree.

BMW has had some major oil related engine problems in the past.

On the broad issue of maintenance practices, of which oil changes are just one small part, different operators with different operating environments and/or expectations for service life and reliably can and will have different service intervals. This applies to airplanes, heavy equipment, ships and even BMWs.

With regard to wear metals, there are several oil analysis’s posted from the first oil change. Even the very early ones show higher than normal levels for wear metals and silicone.

As for the OP’s original question, LL-01 or LL-04 is really all one needs to be looking for. BMW has an oil standard, and I have never seen a reasoned argument for ignoring it (IMO of course). And also with regard to the original post, the Mobil 1 5W-30 with BMW approval (LL-04) is Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP. This is tough to find, and it is not at all like the Mobil 1 5W-30 at the big box stores. Mobil 1 0W-40 with LL-01 is more readily available. Or just get the BMW oil.

If you're referring to the M3 problem it was a bearing issue not getting oil...not that the oil was bad.

I had read that the twin-turbo engine blocks were all aluminum and the normally aspirated motors had engine blocks of aluminum/magnesium matrix.
Both engine blocks use steel cylinder sleeves. The last car motor that I had seen use cylinders of aluminum without a steel sleeve were the Chevy Vega's of the early seventies. Those motors wore out in less than 40K miles.

Crankshafts, camshafts, and other high stress rotating components typically ride on shim type bearings of a tri-metal construction. This tri-metal is typically layers of copper, nickel, and aluminum. I have not built/rebuilt a motor that had cranks or cams running directly on the aluminum block
surface.


Al. Wise

I noticed that description too but I just considered it a 'wording' issue ideosynchracy in the description.

I suppose that using less magnesium in the alloy might trade a little 'lightness' for strength, since magnesium is fairly brittle but, I would have though that BMW would have built the block with enough stoutness to handle the rigours of turbocharging, right from the git-go.

Does anyone else have more info than what the brochures say about the engine block contruction of the normally aspirated and turbocharged cars?

As for the cam bearings... I don't know about the BMW's but I've seen a few engines that have the cam ride directly in the head (with no bearing bushings). The SVT Contour's 2.5 Duratec is one. I don't know about the 3.0 in the X-Type. They do share a common heritage.

I owned a '73 Vega GT wagon back when they were new.

It had the little four banger with the aluminum block (high high silicon aluminum cylinder walls). I don't know how long the cylinders in mine eventually lasted but, when I sold mine in '75, it had 60,000 miles on it and it was still going strong and didn't burn oil. The recent Jaguar AJ-V8 used a similar technology and did also have a problem with excessive cylinder wear in some engines. Not all.

different operators with different operating environments and/or expectations for service life and reliably can and will have different service intervals. This applies to airplanes, heavy equipment, ships and even BMWs.

As for the OP’s original question, LL-01 or LL-04 is really all one needs to be looking for. BMW has an oil standard, and I have never seen a reasoned argument for ignoring it (IMO of course). And also with regard to the original post, the Mobil 1 5W-30 with BMW approval (LL-04) is Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP. This is tough to find, and it is not at all like the Mobil 1 5W-30 at the big box stores. Mobil 1 0W-40 with LL-01 is more readily available. Or just get the BMW oil.

1. All 2004 and newer vehicle are what they call CBS. This stands for Conditioned based service. This means that no two cars are serviced at the same time interval. Especially when it comes to oil. BMW understands what you said, and is why they have designed their cars to takes a ton of different parameters into consideration and recommend service based on those parameters. They have been doing this in a much less complicated way for much longer than 2004....... but now all service on the cars are CBS. Not just oil changes.

So did I misunderstand what you are trying to say? It sounds to me like you were trying to say they overlooked that factor. ????

2. The information I have is that Castol is who actually makes BMW branded oil. Where did you get your info from? I work at a dealer and that came straight from the horses mouth (for a lack of a better term).

2.

Does anyone else have more info than what the brochures say about the engine block contruction of the normally aspirated and turbocharged cars?


http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38856

2. The information I have is that Castol is who actually makes BMW branded oil. Where did you get your info from? I work at a dealer and that came straight from the horses mouth (for a lack of a better term).

Now this is straight from the horses mouth. As you can see, the only Castrol Syntec that is BMW LL-01 or higher rated is the Euro formula 0W-30
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf

1. All 2004 and newer vehicle are what they call CBS. This stands for Conditioned based service. This means that no two cars are serviced at the same time interval. Especially when it comes to oil. BMW understands what you said, and is why they have designed their cars to takes a ton of different parameters into consideration and recommend service based on those parameters. They have been doing this in a much less complicated way for much longer than 2004....... but now all service on the cars are CBS. Not just oil changes.

So did I misunderstand what you are trying to say? It sounds to me like you were trying to say they overlooked that factor. ????

True even my '97 e36 used to have some sort of CBS oil interval, though most probably not as sophisticated as it is now. Anyone remember the disappearing green blocks?


2. The information I have is that Castol is who actually makes BMW branded oil. Where did you get your info from? I work at a dealer and that came straight from the horses mouth (for a lack of a better term).

2.
Indeed it is Castrol, even the oil cap states BMW recommends Castrol, which is a clear indication that it is their oil OEM.

Now this is straight from the horses mouth. As you can see, the only Castrol Syntec that is BMW LL-01 or higher rated is the Euro formula 0W-30
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf


That is true, it is the European spec Castrol full synthetic. Don't use the North American brands, as I don't think they meet BMW specifications.

1. All 2004 and newer vehicle are what they call CBS. This stands for Conditioned based service. This means that no two cars are serviced at the same time interval. Especially when it comes to oil. BMW understands what you said, and is why they have designed their cars to takes a ton of different parameters into consideration and recommend service based on those parameters. They have been doing this in a much less complicated way for much longer than 2004....... but now all service on the cars are CBS. Not just oil changes.

So did I misunderstand what you are trying to say? It sounds to me like you were trying to say they overlooked that factor. ????

2. The information I have is that Castol is who actually makes BMW branded oil. Where did you get your info from? I work at a dealer and that came straight from the horses mouth (for a lack of a better term).

2.

The last part first. Each oil manufacturer makes a wide range of oils. Many car manufacturers, and virtually all European ones, in turn have oil specifications. In our case (BMW) we are supposed to be using oils with BMW LL-01 or LL-04 approvals. What deal the different marketing departments cut really does not matter. In fact the further marketing people are from my maintenance the happier I am. So BMW gets paid to put “Castrol” on the oil cap—does anyone really think that any old Castrol oil can go in there? Or that Motul/Elf/Mobil 1 oils with LL-01 approval are inherently less worthy than the equivalent Castrol? Not that there is anything wrong with Castrol, in my case I buy it from the dealer.

I cited Mobil 1 for the simple reason that there are very few LL-01/LL-04 oils to be found in the United States.

As for the condition based system used by BMW, it appears to be a rather crude one based on fuel used. I would like to see, really really like to see, an example where someone with short trips and cold starts got a significantly reduced oil change interval. I have not seen anyone get an oil change interval significantly below 15k miles, even though there are common usage patterns in the United States that ought to cut the OCI to a fraction of the ideal.

As for the condition based system used by BMW, it appears to be a rather crude one based on fuel used. I would like to see, really really like to see, an example where someone with short trips and cold starts got a significantly reduced oil change interval. I have not seen anyone get an oil change interval significantly below 15k miles, even though there are common usage patterns in the United States that ought to cut the OCI to a fraction of the ideal.
I believe they also have sensors that test the condition of the oil for contaminants/other anomalies. There was a post with excerpts from the WDS on the design of those sensors. Whether they are reliable or work as they are supposed to is another story, but I don't think it is just based on fuel consumed, although that most probably factors into their equation.

EDIT: Here is the post with the relevant excerpt from the WDS: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11493702&postcount=17

P.S. Are you second guessing the engineers and have a better approach or just trying to strengthen the argument for more frequent oil changes? Either way, doesn't really matter to me, just curious.

P.S. Are you second guessing the engineers and have a better approach or just trying to strengthen the argument for more frequent oil changes? Either way, doesn't really matter to me, just curious.

This is the Internet, and who knows who is what. Nor can you believe anything anyone says. Given that, I have a moderately deep maintenance background in another industry. And I deal with maintenance issues (and their fallout) every day at work.

Engineers I respect. Accounts and Marketing people ought to be caged. And far too often I have seen the Engineers caged by these idiots who could not put air in their tires if their life depended on it.

If I were running a fleet of BMWs I would start with a cautious maintenance plan and systematically stretch it out. This is how industry works. But in that process it is very common for one operator to end up with a very different program than another seemingly similar operation—the subtle things matter, and an Engineer would tell you the same.

I have no idea what your operating environment or expectations are, nor do you know mine. That would be an interesting discussion. In the meantime, anyone who wants to follow the BMW system can certainly not be faulted for doing so. But those of us who take a more cautious approach should not be criticized either. These same arguments were being make 5 years ago on the VW/Audi forums and guess what—a combination of Marketing, Accounting and compliant owners ended up creating a bunch of sludged engines. And I firmly believe that the engineers saw it coming.

That does not mean that it will happen to BMW, and it has not so far. But VW/Audi have a lot of company. And in the meantime a few fluid changes (and it won't just be oil) will let me sleep at night. And since I keep my cars longer than the lease/CPO cycle that will be a lot of nights.

Engineers I respect. Accounts and Marketing people ought to be caged. And far too often I have seen the Engineers caged by these idiots who could not put air in their tires if their life depended on it.
Welcome friend :D.

As for the condition based system used by BMW, it appears to be a rather crude one based on fuel used. I would like to see, really really like to see, an example where someone with short trips and cold starts got a significantly reduced oil change interval. I have not seen anyone get an oil change interval significantly below 15k miles, even though there are common usage patterns in the United States that ought to cut the OCI to a fraction of the ideal.



I have around 9300 miles at the moment, and my first oil change, according to the computer, is supposed to come at 10k miles. It started out at 15k and has been working it's way down to 10k. I picked up the car last February, so it's going to hit about a year anyway.

As I stated, I work at the dealer. You do get cars in from time to time that are only going 8K between oil changes. the majority of the public (read 95% (if not more) of BMW owners don't drive that hard. But they do come in from time to time.

No, it is not a crude system.

This was taken off of one of BMW's websites.

"Condition Based Service monitors wear and tear on important parts. Its sensors can determine when a component needs to be replaced or upgraded. Even if the degree of wear cannot be gauged directly, the system uses algorithms to determine when a service check-up should be performed. Several parameters provide the information for this system - mileage, temperature, driving style and more. Overall, Condition Based Service maximises your safety and keeps you on the road longer, as you only need to have your car serviced when it is necessary. You get the most out of your automobile, and are always well informed. "

If that was not true, wouldn't it be illegal for them to state such? I doubt BMW is a company that exposes themselves like that. Don't you?




I saw something on the M's earlier in the post. I didn't go back and read it, but did you guys know that all M models come in for their first service at less than 2,000 miles. ;) I am not sure of the exact mileage, but it's around there.

oh, and it's not just marketing with the brand of oil BMW recommends. Castol actually make the BMW branded oil. All BMW branded oil is just Castrol on a BMW bottle. That is why they say to only use that if you can't get to the dealer.

They designed theri engines on it. If they told you to use any other kind of oil, and it caused damage, they would be liable. It's a legal thing.

Now, if they got paid originally from Castol to use their oil, who knows...... that's another thread.....

And on the flip side, I have seen some cars go as many as 18K miles with no oil change. Those were highway driven queens used for business trips.

I just serviced an X5 3.0i that skipped their inspection I. They probably would have skipped the 45k oil service if I didn't notice the yellow and red SAI lights with both OIL and INSPECTION illuminated. Their first/last/only oil service was in 2005 at 13k. It now has ~43k. I had to cut the oil filter out with a razor blade, since it was stuck fast to the filter cap.

Needless to say, there will be a note on their service history, since this falls under owner abuse. Another customer was forced to keep their lease, since they waited until ~30k to have their first oil service done. Those of you who have the 'who cares? it's a lease' attitude will be in for a rude awakening if you try to turn it in with no maintenance history.

I'm not saying that we're out to screw the customers (LOL $$$TEALER$$$HIP AMIRITE??? :rolleyes), but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $15k+ for an engine because someone was too lazy to change their friggin oil.

The moral of the story? Change your damn oil. It doesn't matter if you wait for the car to tell you or change it every other week. If you change it yourself between scheduled services, keep the receipts, write down the mileage and date you changed it, and DO NOT RESET THE CBS.

I just serviced an X5 3.0i that skipped their inspection I. They probably would have skipped the 45k oil service if I didn't notice the yellow and red SAI lights with both OIL and INSPECTION illuminated. Their first/last/only oil service was in 2005 at 13k. It now has ~43k. I had to cut the oil filter out with a razor blade, since it was stuck fast to the filter cap.

Needless to say, there will be a note on their service history, since this falls under owner abuse. Another customer was forced to keep their lease, since they waited until ~30k to have their first oil service done. Those of you who have the 'who cares? it's a lease' attitude will be in for a rude awakening if you try to turn it in with no maintenance history.

I'm not saying that we're out to screw the customers (LOL $$$TEALER$$$HIP AMIRITE??? :rolleyes), but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $15k+ for an engine because someone was too lazy to change their friggin oil.

The moral of the story? Change your damn oil. It doesn't matter if you wait for the car to tell you or change it every other week. If you change it yourself between scheduled services, keep the receipts, write down the mileage and date you changed it, and DO NOT RESET THE CBS.
That s nuts. TBH, I think even if I had a BMW rental and it needed an oil service, I'd take it in. These cars deserve something back for what they give us. ;)
P.S. People who treat a leased car as not their own should not be allowed to lease IMO. You lease it, it is the same as owning it while you lease it AFAIAC.

As I stated, I work at the dealer. You do get cars in from time to time that are only going 8K between oil changes.....

I stand corrected.