Ive heard that for new cars you should get about a quart or 2 of engine oil for your car after the first 1500 miles. Supposed to be good for your car? is this true?

Check your oil gauge it will show you if there is a need for oil. Over filling is bad for your engine. The manual says 15k miles or a year for changes. Personally 7.5k - 10k would be as far as I would go before a change.
When in doubt read the manual.

I've driven well beyond 1500 miles and no indication my oil level was low or in need of a change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it?

Ive heard that for new cars you should get about a quart or 2 of engine oil for your car after the first 1500 miles. Supposed to be good for your car? is this true?

If you are talking about over-filling your engine, start listening to different people. :nono This would be very bad for your engine. If you are talking about normal losses during break-in, I would suspect that today's manufacturing standards are such that the vast majority of us won't add any oil during the normal cycle. Now, if you drive like you stole the car, all bets are off!

On a new car that I would plan on keeping I would make my first oil change at no more than 500 miles. The next at 1000 miles and one more at 1500.
As far as the regular interval oil changes. I would never wait as long as the manufacturer recommends. 3000 or earlier if the oil looks dirty. A rule of thumb with metal colored dip sticks was to change the oil once it became to dirty to read the marks on the stick.
Dirty oil contains carbon particles that wear engine parts. They are the fine small micron carbon particles that get past the filter and wear bearings/cylinder walls.

On a new car that I would plan on keeping I would make my first oil change at no more than 500 miles. The next at 1000 miles and one more at 1500.

Do you wear a belt and suspenders? :)

To comment on a previous remark. Typically I find it is necessary to have a quart added at about 8,000-10,000 miles after the last service to top it off. BMW recommends 15,000 miles or one year, I see no reason to change more often than that. Also, it is hard to examine the oil when there is no dip stick.

Do you wear a belt and suspenders? :)
:lol, hilarious.

On a new car that I would plan on keeping I would make my first oil change at no more than 500 miles. The next at 1000 miles and one more at 1500.
As far as the regular interval oil changes. I would never wait as long as the manufacturer recommends. 3000 or earlier if the oil looks dirty. A rule of thumb with metal colored dip sticks was to change the oil once it became to dirty to read the marks on the stick.
Dirty oil contains carbon particles that wear engine parts. They are the fine small micron carbon particles that get past the filter and wear bearings/cylinder walls.
Terrible information here.

Annual oil services are suggested.

That was one thing that was hard getting used to...the idea of changing your oil annually...after driving Toyotas forever...you become accustomed to certain routines..however it's good to read the threads on this forum as being a "newbie" to BMW I'm starving for good information....

Frankly, for maximum protection you should change your oil every time you start up the car. I wish BMW would have designed in a system to cycle in a fresh quart of oil for every mile driven. That way these engines will last for a few billion miles and until kingdom come.

European cars have long used higher grade oils, and don't fall victim to marketing like we do here. Most Highend cars have much longer oil change intervals. The filter is the limiting factor.

Also you CANNOT tell if an oil is "dirty" by looking at it...that's a silly thing to say.

For example
My boss's 911 997 C4S has a 20K first service. His E55 was 15K. They don't risk causing long term problems with 70-100K cars for a $100 oil change.

I was floored by the 15K oil change they told me about when I bought the car. Now reading several comments on the forum, it supports what they say. I got used to the 3K rule, especially driving a turbo charged car, I thought I was being conservative. Now I have 2 turbos and wait 15k, but unlike Subaru, BMW uses a full synthetic oil.

I've been on the road with business, and not had a chance to check the manual. What is the oil grade the 335 uses? Is a specific brand preferred, ie: Chevron VS Mobil, Penzoil, etc? I thought it might be safe to keep a quart in the wings just in case.

Change it at the recommended interval. Duh.

Mine shows 19000 miles. I'm at 13,500, so it'll be sometime this summer. I love these longer recommended service intervals.

I was floored by the 15K oil change they told me about when I bought the car. Now reading several comments on the forum, it supports what they say. I got used to the 3K rule, especially driving a turbo charged car, I thought I was being conservative. Now I have 2 turbos and wait 15k, but unlike Subaru, BMW uses a full synthetic oil.

I've been on the road with business, and not had a chance to check the manual. What is the oil grade the 335 uses? Is a specific brand preferred, ie: Chevron VS Mobil, Penzoil, etc? I thought it might be safe to keep a quart in the wings just in case.

I want to say Castrol, but they use a Class 3 synthetic oil. Our dino grade was probably Class 1.

And as mentioned it doesn't hurt to change the oil every 15 feet, but it's a waste. Also the interval changes with driving conditions and habits. The harder you drive the quicker the interval will come.

Frankly, for maximum protection you should change your oil every time you start up the car. I wish BMW would have designed in a system to cycle in a fresh quart of oil for every mile driven. That way these engines will last for a few billion miles and until kingdom come.
Ha, ha, ha!!!!! Or at LEAST every time you fill up with gas, drain and fill with oil too! That would be real fun and make your car almost as fast as if it had some AEM or K&N stickers on the windows!

Also you CANNOT tell if an oil is "dirty" by looking at it...that's a silly thing to say.

Hmmm, I wonder if this is the real reason for BMW getting rid of the dipstick. Maybe some dipsticks are looking at the oil thinking it is dirty and complaining too much. :dunno

Maybe those who think that the oil should be changed at 3000 miles or whatever absurdly low mileage they say is best could provide the forum with an oil analysis from their early (and needless) oil changes? Uh oh, I did it. I asked for proof again. Here comes the "I don't need to prove anything, I'm just right" comments...oh and please don't try to tell us you are correct because you paid cash for your car or something like that. I'm still trying to figure out the validity of that argument from the other thread about proof...

I have typically changed my oil within the first 1000 miles on a new engine due to the possibility of any metal shavings left over from manufacture or due to break in. After that I have tended to run dino oil and change it every 3000-5000 miles, out of habit.

That being said with this BMW I have decided to let Col. Klaus tell me what to do. He is the little Nazi that I am convinced lives in the dash who tells me when the windshield wipers should be on, the lights, when it's cold etc. I figure I will let him deal with the day to day running of the vehicle.

That being said my father spent a few years of his fire department career overseeing the maintenance division of a major metro fire department. One of the things they did was a series of reasonably expensive and far reaching oil analysis tests on the various engine and truck companies. What they found was that regular dino oil really didn't loose any of its lubricating properties even after THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of miles of HARD use in fire engines. Based on that I think you can be confident that between a the very high quality synthetics used in these cars and a modicum of care, and Col. Klaus' supervision you should be just fine going to 15-20K between oil changes. Yes I know this is hard to digest after years of 3000 mile changes but based on the data I have seen, you have nothing to worry about.

Col. Klaus says Sig Hei......ahhh sorry, have a great day. 8D

I change the oil 1000-1500 on the clock then every 5K or 6 months on all my cars.... don't care if ppl say it's too much or BMW says it's a waste of money... or whether the oil is still clean.

I drive my car hard regularly... and just want to get a little peace of mind.

I wouldn't care about changing oil outside recommended schedule if I lease and plan to return the car....

Did anyone even bother take a look at the fancy electronics that BMW uses to check their oil quality. I guess if you are old school you don't trust electronics, which begs the question, why buy the 335, go get a 70s hot rod and mod it to your liking and change the oil based on the quality of your eyesight!

guess if you are old school you don't trust electronics, which begs the question, why buy the 335, go get a 70s hot rod and mod it to your liking and change the oil based on the quality of your eyesight!

I must admit that it is very hard to transition to this type of thinking. I totally see where the other posters who are looking for piece of mind are coming from. I almost did not purchase the BMW for the very reason that it does have too many electrical / computerized controls in place.

That being said Klaus and I are learning to live with each other and so far it is a reasonably enjoyable experience. This is the first car that I really don't have to worry about maintaining and although that is very difficult for me I am going to give it a try. (NOTE - I don't mean I am out to abuse the car and dump it on some poor sap. What I mean is following BMW's instructions and letting them handle all the oil changes etc. when Klaus tells me to.)

Chris

I change the oil 1000-1500 on the clock then every 5K or 6 months on all my cars.... don't care if ppl say it's too much or BMW says it's a waste of money... or whether the oil is still clean.

I drive my car hard regularly... and just want to get a little peace of mind.

I wouldn't care about changing oil outside recommended schedule if I lease and plan to return the car....

Don't forget your irresponsible impact on the environment with all those wasted oil changes. And for piece of mind, why not not just leave your car in the garage - that would be the safest thing to do would it not?

Don't forget your irresponsible impact on the environment with all those wasted oil changes.

That's a bit harsh don't you think, I mean oil does get recycled etc. If changing one's oil every 3000-5000 miles makes them happy so be it.

Tough crowd.

I think for most drivers getting used to 15,000 miles or so between oil changes is tough, but it seems that's how these cars are designed. I had a very concentrated summer of driving on long trips in very hot weather, so I changed the oil after 9,000 miles for the first time. But I think I will follow the suggested schedule from now on.

The car adjusts the interval for the driving type..my thought is probably just based off calculated MPG since the harder you drive....the less MPG you get :)

The car adjusts the interval for the driving type..my thought is probably just based off calculated MPG since the harder you drive....the less MPG you get :)
I believe the computer algorithm is a bit more sophisticated than that, but you got the general idea. There are also sophisticated sensors in the oil to test for oil quality and contaminants, ask nm335 to post the relevant section from the WDS.

Do you wear a belt and suspenders? :)

To comment on a previous remark. Typically I find it is necessary to have a quart added at about 8,000-10,000 miles after the last service to top it off. BMW recommends 15,000 miles or one year, I see no reason to change more often than that. Also, it is hard to examine the oil when there is no dip stick.

Absolutely! BMW knows what they are doing. Their warranty program, the best in the industry, keeps the cars as close to new even after 4 years of driving. Why would BMW take a chance with the engine with that attitude? Simply, they WOULDNT!!!

Absolutely! BMW knows what they are doing. Their warranty program, the best in the industry, keeps the cars as close to new even after 4 years of driving. Why would BMW take a chance with the engine with that attitude? Simply, they WOULDNT!!!

Are you aware that Hyundai now offers 5 years, 60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 10 year, 100,000 mile power-train warranty? :rolleyes

Jesus this is just a whole bunch of BMW fanboiz posting here. :lol

Are you aware that Hyundai now offers 5 years, 60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 10 year, 100,000 mile power-train warranty?

Jesus this is just a whole bunch of BMW fanboiz posting here.

You got that right!

The other misconception is that the interval is 15K miles and that's it. The truth is that the car computer takes in to account, the oil and its properties and the results of testing and computes that against the details of how you driver your car and it will calculate the due mileage based on that information. Maybe some of you just aren't driving your cars as hard as you think you are, the harder you drive, the sooner it will tell you to take it in.

If you read the owner's manual, it clearly tells you about the oil change interval. Even better, the car tells you when to change the oil. It's interesting that people think they know more about changing their oil than the engineers who designed the engines and the computer software that analyzes the oil and your driving habits.

Even our 2006 Cadillac CTS told us when the oil change was necessary (1 year for my wife's driving habits). Unless you're over 55, it shouldn't be that hard to let go of the old myths of changing your oil every 3000 miles and to follow the recommendations of your owner's manual or the car's computer.

for those who like to change the oil frequently, I wish I still had my dad's '78 730 to give to you. It used to burn a quart of oil every week or so. Within a month or less it would recycle all the oil it had and you'll always have brand new oil :D. In fact it burned so much, I couldn't afford to put in brand name oil, I used to use the stuff thy scooped out of a huge barrel, literally :shifty. P.S. I loved that car, will all its troubles, it still made me a BMW fanatic and it was a 3 speed AT.

Don't forget your irresponsible impact on the environment with all those wasted oil changes. And for piece of mind, why not not just leave your car in the garage - that would be the safest thing to do would it not?

:nuts:rock:

Speechless... next time, think first before saying something rude...

Oil --> I use synthetic --> recycle? --> what environmental impact?

Even if it's material enough to be concerned, I'm 1000% sure it's still miniscule compared to gas.

And what does it have anything to do w/ leaving the car in the garage??? Do you think not driving the car would not require you to change oil after some time? Don't believe me? Don't drive your 335i for one year.... we'll see what the computer says.

:nuts:rock:

Speechless... next time, think first before saying something rude...

Oil --> I use synthetic --> recycle? --> what environmental impact?

Even if it's material enough to be concerned, I'm 1000% sure it's still miniscule compared to gas.

And what does it have anything to do w/ leaving the car in the garage??? Do you think not driving the car would not require you to change oil after some time? Don't believe me? Don't drive your 335i for one year.... we'll see what the computer says.

Apparently you are not thinking. Just because you recycle something doesn't make it the equivilent of not using as much. By recycling oil, yes, for 55% of the time it is used properly its great. its the 45% of the time that it ends up in underground water systems is where there is an issue. Let me ask, is 45% of 100 the same as 45% of 1000? Clearly not, by utilizing more premium oil (which by the way is not created by recycled oil, only new crude) you are contributing the the latter of my argument. Recycling is often confused with the right to use more of something and that is just a ridiculous thought process. If you only used two sheets of paper per notebook and recycled the rest and just bought more new notebooks and continued you flawed process of recylcing, you will undoubtedly end up with less trees on the planet than you would if you just used all the paper in the notebook before buying another. Make sense?

Oh and you're right, the garage argument was sarcasm. I should have just asked why you don't change your oil every 5-10 miles.

Apparently you are not thinking. Just because you recycle something doesn't make it the equivilent of not using as much. By recycling oil, yes, for 55% of the time it is used properly its great. its the 45% of the time that it ends up in underground water systems is where there is an issue. Let me ask, is 45% of 100 the same as 45% of 1000? Clearly not, by utilizing more premium oil (which by the way is not created by recycled oil, only new crude) you are contributing the the latter of my argument. Recycling is often confused with the right to use more of something and that is just a ridiculous thought process. If you only used two sheets of paper per notebook and recycled the rest and just bought more new notebooks and continued you flawed process of recylcing, you will undoubtedly end up with less trees on the planet than you would if you just used all the paper in the notebook before buying another. Make sense?

Oh and you're right, the garage argument was sarcasm. I should have just asked why you don't change your oil every 5-10 miles.

Are you buying a new notebook every time you take a new class or just using the one from previous semester?

How do you know that the oil your 335i is using only lasts up to exactly 15K miles? If you dare and always drive your car like a grandma (not revving above 2.5K RPM), I'm sure your car still runs fine after 25K or even 50K w/o any oil change.

Why don't you do that then if you feel you're acting responsibly to the environment? Or why don't you tell your SA to check your oil condition first and only replace it if it's absolutely not usable anymore? Or why don't you buy electric car? Or why don't you just take public transportation and not own any car?

How much of a difference in environmental impact between changing the oil 5K-10K earlier, which is most likely 1 extra oil change in 1 year?

You're driving your car in traffic in your regular week has done more damage to the environment than this extra oil change BS.

I think you're just the type of people who fights over several pennies.

For OP: Sorry for the threadjack....

You know, this topic has come up and has been discussed as many times as I change my oil after each time the engine's fired up, and it STILL gets this amount of discussion here on this particular forum.

I'm proud of my E9X brothers. I really am. Even the E46 guys have stopped arguing about this stuff long time ago after about the 40,000th thread that came up about "how often should I change my oil." Way to keep hope alive y'all.

OK I just read your post above.... yes, 15K is not fixed and no, I don't think I'm smarter than the engineers....

But keep in mind that the manual is not produced by the engineers.... cost always comes into play. BMW offers free maintenance... but they surely want to minimize the cost. So what the actual engineers really think is undoubtedly compromised. How do you know BMW is not stretching it?

For example: They say they would change brake pads for free.... well, if you abuse your car and finish your brake pads in 2K miles (lots of track use).... don't you think BMW would give you a hard time to replace them for free?

But either way, I stand by my opinion.... I may have a habit to change the oil a little too early (no, I'm not 55 :D )... may be one extra oil change a year.... or 3-4 extra oil changes over the car's ownership.... I don't think it's material enough to be argued.

OP asked about the 1st oil change.... it doesn't hurt to follow the old school.

For example: They say they would change brake pads for free.... well, if you abuse your car and finish your brake pads in 2K miles (lots of track use).... don't you think BMW would give you a hard time to replace them for free?
No they wouldn't. And they haven't. I took my 323Ci to the track and blew through 2 sets of pads in 20,000 miles. Both times the pads were replaced, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Heck my service writer even KNEW I was taking that car to the track the second time I brought it in for brake pads. Even asked me when the next event was, but didn't give me a hard time on the brakes (and that second time was a set of pads AND rotors. $500 on parts alone).

Heck when I blew through a set of brakes in 2,000 miles on my 350Z, the Nissan dealership didn't ask anything and replaced it under warranty. :dunno

And if you can blow through a set of BMW pads in 2,000 miles on the track, you're doing something WRONG. Seriously wrong. Wrong enough to get yourself killed.

You know, this topic has come up and has been discussed as many times as I change my oil after each time the engine's fired up, and it STILL gets this amount of discussion here on this particular forum.

I'm proud of my E9X brothers. I really am. Even the E46 guys have stopped arguing about this stuff long time ago after about the 40,000th thread that came up about "how often should I change my oil." Way to keep hope alive y'all.

Lots of people are still discovering that 1956 ended 51 years ago. This is their first European car and their first experience with non crap oil.

I read somewhere that even US made cars are changing to a 7500 mile frequency.

OK I just read your post above.... yes, 15K is not fixed and no, I don't think I'm smarter than the engineers....

But keep in mind that the manual is not produced by the engineers.... cost always comes into play. BMW offers free maintenance... but they surely want to minimize the cost. So what the actual engineers really think is undoubtedly compromised. How do you know BMW is not stretching it?

Exactly, it's a trade-space analysis made by their financial folks and their engineers.

If I were really, really smart, making incredible cars, and offering 4 year complete warranties, how would I work the details on oil changes?

If I were purchasing the car, to keep for 10-plus years, what would I do? Would it be different?

Changing at double the recommended interval (7.5K miles) seemed reasonable to me, especially after hearing somewhere about gas making it into the oil more on turbocharged cars and reading testimonies with pics of folks changing the oil at 5K miles and finding slight shavings.

If I'm wrong, it's costing me $100/year. I don't believe in the environmental impact of these few quarts any more than that we should all be driving cars making more than 40mpg. BTW, they could both be good arguments, I just think they're about equal.

From what I understand, one of the hardest parts on the engine, not really covered by any of this, is start-up. Some modified Porsches cycle the oil through the engine electronically before things fire up.


Roy

A reality check is in order.

1. “BMW knows about oil” Ask an E46 M3 owner.

2. “Only change it early if you run the car hard”. Grandma going 3 miles to and from Bunco is harder on the oil than boy street racer.

3. “It checks the oil” Right. Then why does the system show no change when intermediate oil changes are done? BMW looks at fuel used, period.

4. “My GM car…”. See above. The GM system is far more sophisticated than what BMW has implemented.

5. “15k is fine” Show me the oil analysis from these long intervals. Lets make it 6 to average things out.

6. “I love the environment” Then plan to run your car to 300k.

The big question is maintenance schedules, for which oil change intervals are only one part. Different people with different expectations will maintain their cars to different standards. Those running leased cars for 3 years will find a different solution than someone like myself, who sees our E90 lasting 200K and who has a 28 year old car as its garage buddy. Neither party can claim an ultimate truth.

Oh, and the garage buddy does not burn oil. Imagine that.

Some modified Porsches cycle the oil through the engine electronically before things fire up.


Roy

Hmmm... where did you hear this? How does it know when we are about to fire things up? Or should we wait a moment after plugging the key but before fire things up? :D

To me, lubrication at the first start-up of the day is crucial.... not only the engine, but also transmission, differentials, etc. I usually drive it very easy in the 1st 3 miles or so to make sure all parts are well lubricated and all lubrication is close to its operating temp... I wish my cars had an oil temp gauge like the 335i. At least it's better than coolant temp or nothing at all :(

The GM system is far more sophisticated than what BMW has implemented.

:lol

Are you buying a new notebook every time you take a new class or just using the one from previous semester?

How do you know that the oil your 335i is using only lasts up to exactly 15K miles? If you dare and always drive your car like a grandma (not revving above 2.5K RPM), I'm sure your car still runs fine after 25K or even 50K w/o any oil change.

Why don't you do that then if you feel you're acting responsibly to the environment? Or why don't you tell your SA to check your oil condition first and only replace it if it's absolutely not usable anymore? Or why don't you buy electric car? Or why don't you just take public transportation and not own any car?

How much of a difference in environmental impact between changing the oil 5K-10K earlier, which is most likely 1 extra oil change in 1 year?

You're driving your car in traffic in your regular week has done more damage to the environment than this extra oil change BS.

I think you're just the type of people who fights over several pennies.

For OP: Sorry for the threadjack....

You don't even see the contridictions in your own post do you? Just because driving may be more damaging, why compound it by using another quart of oil? Because it does less damage than driving? But it's still doing damage right? And by your own logic, you would actually be doing more damage by driving and using an additional quart of oil than if you were to just drive and not use that extra quart...following me here? Again, you are making another argument that most people make the mistake of making in the first place. Arguing that something isn't as bad as something else isn't justification for doing the less damaging of the two.

You don't even see the contridictions in your own post do you? Just because driving may be more damaging, why compound it by using another quart of oil? Because it does less damage than driving? But it's still doing damage right? And by your own logic, you would actually be doing more damage by driving and using an additional quart of oil than if you were to just drive and not use that extra quart...following me here? Again, you are making another argument that most people make the mistake of making in the first place. Arguing that something isn't as bad as something else isn't justification for doing the less damaging of the two.

now I know why there is a Socrates in your name :stickoutt.

now I know why there is a Socrates in your name :stickoutt.

:D

I was thinking about this whole 15K oil change cycle and decided to check the trusty forum. So what's the consensus...15k service OK or less? I've got 7500+ mi on my 328xi coupe. Sure would be nice to at least be able to look at the oil on a dip stick.

I'm thinking about having cold air intake installed. Has anyone done this and does it produce enough hp increase to warrant install? thanks and have a great holiday.

I was thinking about this whole 15K oil change cycle and decided to check the trusty forum. So what's the consensus...15k service OK or less? I've got 7500+ mi on my 328xi coupe. Sure would be nice to at least be able to look at the oil on a dip stick.

I'm thinking about having cold air intake installed. Has anyone done this and does it produce enough hp increase to warrant install? thanks and have a great holiday.
I go by what the car tells me. Did that for 10 years on my previous car (e36) and never had an issue. I too have 7500+ miles now (12000+ km), but won't be going for my oil service for another 7500 or maybe earlier if a year passes by before I hit 15k miles which is probably more likely.

It's in BMW's interest to have our cars last as long as possible. It will save them money on warranty costs, both under the standard and factory sponsored extended warranties. Plus, they want to build brand loyalty. They want us to purchase more BMWs, tell our friends, report our findings to Consumer Reports and develop a reputation for quality.

It doesn't make sense that BMW engineers would design and build the best sports sedans and develop automated systems that give us bad advice on how to maintain them. They wouldn't skimp on proper maintenance to save a few dollars during the 4 years/50K miles.

My take on this issue and the break in issue is do what these fine engineers recommend! No one knows more about these fine cars and how to keep them running properly. Most people question the motives of large corporations and I think we should, but it would be stupid from a business standpoint to give us maintenance recommendations that didn't work. Plus, the engineers and assembly line workers don't work just for money. They also work for pride.

There's one more thing to consider. Everyone makes mistakes. The more we take our cars in for service, the more likely a mistake becomes. Haven't we all had our crankcases overfilled, our interiors dirtied or car washes that result in our cars being in worse shape when we left the dealership than when we arrived? I respect the desire of enthusiasts to take great care of their cars, but isn't it possible that our zeal result in too much maintenance?

So I recommend we follow the break-in process and maintenance schedules BMW recommends. It's in BMW's interest and ours. That's what I'm going to do with my new 328.

I change every 7500 miles regardless of anything. And yes, I get a sample done at Blackstone Labs every change. I am not saying that everyone should do the same. It's just what works for me. I use BMW 5W30 oil purchased from the dealer.
One item of note: BMW used to recommend a much shorter oil change interval until free scheduled maintenance came into existence. They also used to suggest coolant changes every two years. Now magically its four. Conspiracy? You be the judge.

It's in BMW's interest to have our cars last as long as possible.

No it's not. It's in BMW's best interest to build a car we like enough so that when it fails anytime past warranty, we'd be inclined to buy another BMW to replace it. If they build cars and engines that last 500,000 miles, they'd be out of business pretty soon.

I understand that you express a very popular point of view and I'm not going to change your mind, but I disagree. Unhappy customers don't return. Building quality products and brand loyalty are more important in the long term.

Most people don't keep their cars for a long time, especially with the trend towards leasing. So BMW doesn't need to force us out of our old cars to buy new cars. Plus, if most of us had reliability problems with our cars under warranty and after warranty, we'd consider other brands. Even if my car was warranted forever or I was wealthy, I'd hate owning a car that frequently forced me back to the dealer or left me stranded. I'd consider it a piece of junk.

Plus it doesn't make sense that the same engineers that build and design these fine cars would design and build maintenance reminder systems that give us bad advice. If I worked for BMW or any other car company and they told me to do that I'd resign.

D.

I understand that you express a very popular point of view and I'm not going to change your mind, but I disagree. Unhappy customers don't return. Building quality products and brand loyalty are more important in the long term.

Most people don't keep their cars for a long time, especially with the trend towards leasing. So BMW doesn't need to force us out of our old cars to buy new cars. Plus, if most of us had reliability problems with our cars under warranty and after warranty, we'd consider other brands. Even if my car was warranted forever or I was wealthy, I'd hate owning a car that frequently forced me back to the dealer or left me stranded. I'd consider it a piece of junk.

Plus it doesn't make sense that the same engineers that build and design these fine cars would design and build maintenance reminder systems that give us bad advice. If I worked for BMW or any other car company and they told me to do that I'd resign.

D.

+1. Well said.

so... we dont have to go back to the dealer after 1200 break in?
i m also wondering should i go back to change oil because of the break in....

so... we dont have to go back to the dealer after 1200 break in?
i m also wondering should i go back to change oil because of the break in....
If you like to waste money or donate to the dealer go ahead, otherwise no need for old school anal procedures.

Most of you probably owns an E9X as your very first BMW, so let me be honest with you. I've had BMWs from the mighty E30 all the way up to today's E92, and trust me when I say BMW don't built their cars to last. Nobody does anymore. Don't expect your E92 to still be running 7-8 years from now with 200,000 miles like my E30 318is (17 years and 207,000 miles strong).

Here's a list of things guaranteed to fail within the first 120,000 miles.

Water pump
Coolant expansion tank
Control arms and control arm bushings
Automatic transmission
Valvetrain

No matter how well you try to take care of it, if you're the first owner of your current car, I can guarantee you a major failure within the next 5 years of operation. If you're a second hand owner of an E36/E46/E9X, expect about $2,000-$8,000 worth of bills in the next 2-5 years unless you're mechanically inclined and can fix most of the things that tend to break on a BMW (or modern day car, for that matter).

And I can guaranteed about $2,000 worth of repairs within the first 2 years out of warranty. Count on it. BMW is. They don't expect you to hold on to any of these modern BMWs for more than a couple of years after warranty expires.

Most of you probably owns an E9X as your very first BMW, so let me be honest with you. I've had BMWs from the mighty E30 all the way up to today's E92, and trust me when I say BMW don't built their cars to last. Nobody does anymore. Don't expect your E92 to still be running 7-8 years from now with 200,000 miles like my E30 318is (17 years and 207,000 miles strong).

Here's a list of things guaranteed to fail within the first 120,000 miles.

Water pump
Coolant expansion tank
Control arms and control arm bushings
Automatic transmission
Valvetrain

No matter how well you try to take care of it, if you're the first owner of your current car, I can guarantee you a major failure within the next 5 years of operation. If you're a second hand owner of an E36/E46/E9X, expect about $2,000-$8,000 worth of bills in the next 2-5 years unless you're mechanically inclined and can fix most of the things that tend to break on a BMW (or modern day car, for that matter).

And I can guaranteed about $2,000 worth of repairs within the first 2 years out of warranty. Count on it. BMW is. They don't expect you to hold on to any of these modern BMWs for more than a couple of years after warranty expires.
I had my e36 for 10 years straight (130K miles) and sure things break, I've yet to hear of any car that has nothing break on it after 10 years. No one is saying that things won't break after the warranty, but to say that BMW or any reputable car manufacturer would intentionally give bad maintenance advice to save a few hundred dollars at the expense of their reputation is plain stupid IMO (no offense to anyone). BMW has been around for 80+ years and will probably be around for another century or more, so why would they want to ruin their reputation to save a few hundred bucks per car. They can easily recoup that by adding the cost to the car's price.
As I said I owned my e36 for 10 years and it had its shares of issues, so did my dad's '78 730, but they both still performed great after 10 years of service and they exhibited no catastrophic failures even though they were driven hard most of the time. Add to that the fact the service at my BMW dealer was impeccable and they got a returning customer. I don't want a soul-less 0 problem car, but also will never be loyal to a company that would intentionally have low quality standards. BMW knows that and if some of you have ever seen any documentary about BMW's anal-ness when it comes to quality you would never raise such a question.

BMW recommends 15,000 miles or one year,


My manual says to follow the on board computer.
My on board computer says to change the oil in 18.000 km or on Oktober 2008.(I bought my bmw on October 2006 and I have now 10.500 km).
My guarantee from bmw is two years. So for what reason to change my oil before?
I will follow my on board computer.
(Last car was a Rover year-1994 car and recomended oil changes at 10.000 km or 1 year. But technology today is more powerful with full synthetic oil)

I agree with mryakan.

My brother has an 01 325 with 110K and NOTHING unusual has gone wrong with it except the electric cooling fan, which was replaced under warranty. I don't believe in the "planned obsolescence" theory for the reasons I stated in previous posts.

The problem BMW faces is it must keep improving the features of their products while at the same time abiding by more stringent constraints. For example, we want more performance, better ride, better handling, better gas mileage, better looks, less emissions, more safety AND we want to keep the costs down. That's an incredibly complex challenge with conflicting requirements, which results in greater complexity and occasional failures. That's why things break, not because BMW wants to force us to buy new cars.

By the way this is my 3rd BMW. My first was an E30.

Here's a list of things guaranteed to fail within the first 120,000 miles.

Water pump
Coolant expansion tank
Control arms and control arm bushings
Automatic transmission
ValvetrainEverything you list here has nothing in common with the older M5x-engine cars.

Terrible information here.

Annual oil services are suggested.

he is still stuck in the 90's. Technology has changed of course and so has everyone pretty much to synthetic oil. Change when the car tells you or a year. There is no reason to change it more often then that. 500 miles?????? wow

1,200 break in service is for M cars only. They get an oil change, transmission, and differential fluid change as well.

Most of you probably owns an E9X as your very first BMW, so let me be honest with you. I've had BMWs from the mighty E30 all the way up to today's E92, and trust me when I say BMW don't built their cars to last. Nobody does anymore. Don't expect your E92 to still be running 7-8 years from now with 200,000 miles like my E30 318is (17 years and 207,000 miles strong).

Here's a list of things guaranteed to fail within the first 120,000 miles.

Water pump
Coolant expansion tank
Control arms and control arm bushings
Automatic transmission
Valvetrain

No matter how well you try to take care of it, if you're the first owner of your current car, I can guarantee you a major failure within the next 5 years of operation. If you're a second hand owner of an E36/E46/E9X, expect about $2,000-$8,000 worth of bills in the next 2-5 years unless you're mechanically inclined and can fix most of the things that tend to break on a BMW (or modern day car, for that matter).

And I can guaranteed about $2,000 worth of repairs within the first 2 years out of warranty. Count on it. BMW is. They don't expect you to hold on to any of these modern BMWs for more than a couple of years after warranty expires.


I had an E36 M3 for 97k miles. None of those things occurred. The only mechanical issue I had was a bad thermostat.

Typical "Hack" comment about the world coming to an end. Do me a favor and got get some action so you lose that asshat attitude you have to project into everything you do. Cars have wear items, yes they are built to last a certain period is that new? Do you think you just discovered the ploy by the man?

Enjoy your god machine 318, there's plenty of people with cars that are new and will last long. I agree that with the amount of new electronics in cars that problems will be more expensive...so buy an old car and enjoy that then. But I'm fairly certain you can expect your engine to last over 200,000 miles if you take care of it and replace those items that are EXPECTED to wear.

Water pumps go in all cars, you should know that Mr. Track master all-knowing.


Merry Christmas.

Terrible information here.

Annual oil services are suggested.
+1
500 miles? Maybe on something built by the English in 1950.

I had an E36 M3 for 97k miles. None of those things occurred. The only mechanical issue I had was a bad thermostat.

You got lucky. The waterpump and/or radiator probably failed within 1 year/10,000 miles after you sold the car. You stuck the guy who bought the car from you with a pretty hefty repair bill. If you could look up the guy you sold the car to, I can guarantee that he's cursing your name right now. :D

I had 2 E46 323Ci's that was meticulously maintained. Oil change with nothing but BMW parts on 2X schedule (meaning every ~7,500 miles or so), Radiator flushed professionally every 2 years with nothing but BMW parts, waterpump changed pre-emptively every 65,000 miles. Both cars, blew their radiator soon after I sold it. The blue one (mine) blew the radiator at 96,000 miles, the red one (my wife's) blew the radiator at 115,000 miles. Luckily both cars were sold to people who either know cars (my mechanic bought my blue car) or people who knew people who knew cars (the red one sold to my mechanic's niece). My mechanic knew it was inevitable and shut down the engine immediately when the radiator blew up on the first one and replaced with a good aftermarket unit. On the red, she was fortunate enough to not overheat the engine and heeded the warning fast enough to not warp the head, requiring a lot more repairs. According to my mechanic, the pre-emptive waterpump change probably staved off expensive repairs, since these pumps were known to seize the bearings.

The E36 M3 has some pretty high failure rate on both the radiator and waterpump. I haven't come across a single E36 M3 that has more than 120K miles on either the original waterpump or radiator. And if I ever come across one, it just means it's a ticking time-bomb waiting to go off.

Everything you list here has nothing in common with the older M5x-engine cars.

But those were some of the same weak-points that was carried over from M50 to M52 to M54 engines. BMW has never addressed those weak-points and I don't expect them to address them anytime in the future.

Out of the list, the waterpump was a major re-design (mechanical to electrical) but the same failure points (bearing and fan-blade) still exist I would have to assume. And the radiator, unless BMW had a change of heart, still contains the same weak-points (the rubber neck to the aluminum core).

I'm inclined to believe BMW only engineer these parts (and cars) to last around 75,000-100,000 miles, the typical duration in which the vast majority of new BMW owners tend to keep their cars (2-6 years). They're not in the business to build cars that last forever anymore, not like the German cars of the late 70s to mid 80s.

You got lucky. The waterpump and/or radiator probably failed within 1 year/10,000 miles after you sold the car. You stuck the guy who bought the car from you with a pretty hefty repair bill. If you could look up the guy you sold the car to, I can guarantee that he's cursing your name right now. :D

(snip)

The E36 M3 has some pretty high failure rate on both the radiator and waterpump. I haven't come across a single E36 M3 that has more than 120K miles on either the original waterpump or radiator. And if I ever come across one, it just means it's a ticking time-bomb waiting to go off.

No, the kid I sold the car to has it up to 103k now with no issues at all except repairing a RTAB. Also, I just asked the 4 other people I know with E36 M3s, with mileage anywhere from 87 to 165k miles. None have had those problems.

So much for your "guarantee".

I change oil in my cars in the 7000 mile range. I do not trust any manufacturer who says you can drive 15K miles with no oil change. I am a cynic, I believe they want people to buy another car after the one with six oil changes (which is about 120000miles) wears out. I'm an old guy and I'm sticking with oil changes at half the mileage BMW suggests. By the way, I'm on my 10th BMW. I currently have a 335i, a 2001 325iT and a 2007 Cooper S.

Why would BMW build a maintenance reminder system that tells us not change essential fluids often enough, resulting in premature failures in the long term? I can think of 2 reasons.

1. You believe in planned obsolescence. BMW intentionally advises us to under-maintain our cars because it will result in premature failures and we'll have to buy new cars or pay BMW lots of money to fix our broken cars. I don't subscribe to this point of view because it's bad for the company in the long term and it's not consistent with the core mission of the company - to build great cars. Great cars don't start falling apart after the warranty ends.

2. Assuming there's a "gray zone" on what constitutes proper maintenance (it's not crystal clear), BMW has erred on the side of minimum maintenance to reduce their costs during the warranty period. Their recommend service intervals work for most owners, but not for everyone.

Whether you believe in #1 or #2 or something else, I can see why people would say to themselves: "The additional costs involved in maintaining our cars more often than suggested are small relative to the financial consequences of under-maintaining our cars, therefore I will error on the side of caution and spend a few extra bucks as insurance against costly repairs". I've always reduced the intervals on my cars and considered it cheap insurance because I always want the option of keeping my cars for many years.

With my new BMW, I'm going to follow what the maintenance system tells me unless there are BMW SA's or technicians that read these forums that advise otherwise. So far, we've all been voicing opinions, but it would sure be nice to get some FACTS from people in the business that have seen the consequences of difference maintenance strategies for years.

Can anyone give us some FACTS? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

D.

My e36 blew 2 radiators before 110k. I had to replace 2 transaxles. I still bought a e46 and now a e90.

All cars have issues

With my new BMW, I'm going to follow what the maintenance system tells me unless there are BMW SA's or technicians that read these forums that advise otherwise.

I can't agree with you more. I am a BMW Service Advisor at a Dealership in Washington, DC. They just need to wake up and realize that technology has changed (Obviously). Looking at oil and saying it's dirty is a misconception especially with synthetic oils.

They just need to wake up and realize that technology has changed (Obviously).
Don't count on that changing people's perceptions. Unfortunately, you can't teach most old dogs new tricks (no offense intended).

I was floored by the 15K oil change they told me about when I bought the car. Now reading several comments on the forum, it supports what they say. I got used to the 3K rule, especially driving a turbo charged car, I thought I was being conservative. Now I have 2 turbos and wait 15k, but unlike Subaru, BMW uses a full synthetic oil.

I've been on the road with business, and not had a chance to check the manual. What is the oil grade the 335 uses? Is a specific brand preferred, ie: Chevron VS Mobil, Penzoil, etc? I thought it might be safe to keep a quart in the wings just in case.

Yep after driving Toyotas forever it's nice to go to a car that recommends you wait 15000 miles

Well to satisfy myself I got my oil and filter changed today at 8Kmi

The 15K change is still free.

Best of luck to everyone who sticks it out:cool

Sleeper: Sounds like cheap insurance. What's it cost to do an oil change at the dealer?

If you do oil changes every 7.5K miles, you'll be doing 13 of them up to 100K. Seven of those would be extra. If an oil change costs $100 (rough guess), you'd be paying $700 extra over 100K miles to do twice the recommended oil changes. That seems like it's worth it if you plan on keeping the car past warranty, or you qualify as "heavy-duty" use or you have a turbo. Agreed?

European cars have long used higher grade oils, and don't fall victim to marketing like we do here. Most Highend cars have much longer oil change intervals. The filter is the limiting factor.

Also you CANNOT tell if an oil is "dirty" by looking at it...that's a silly thing to say.

For example
My boss's 911 997 C4S has a 20K first service. His E55 was 15K. They don't risk causing long term problems with 70-100K cars for a $100 oil change.

I agree with extended drain intervals when using quality synthetic lubricants.

However, I do feel a complete change with filter at 500 miles is a wise thing to do. Not because the oil is worn out. But because it is always possible for small metal particles from the manufacturing process to get overlooked when cleaning and assembling the engine. After the first change at 500 (I'll gladly pay for that one myself), I'd go with the manufactures recomendations till it's off warranty. Then, I'd go with no less than 10,000 miles or more between changes, unless operating in extreme or dusty conditions.

Sleeper: Sounds like cheap insurance. What's it cost to do an oil change at the dealer?

If you do oil changes every 7.5K miles, you'll be doing 13 of them up to 100K. Seven of those would be extra. If an oil change costs $100 (rough guess), you'd be paying $700 extra over 100K miles to do twice the recommended oil changes. That seems like it's worth it if you plan on keeping the car past warranty, or you qualify as "heavy-duty" use or you have a turbo. Agreed?

Well it is nearly exactly $100...20 for service, $21 for the filter, and 7.5 qts of oil at around 8 bucks each. I have kept cars for a long time and it is usually based on how much I like them. For all the fuss about whether it is really necessary, I can't be concerned with it. While I have been raised to think that extended warranties are usually a poor investment, this one is paid for now, and yes I will wonder if the money could have been better spent as I continue to drive this car the fun way; perhaps on new tires later???:confused

Course I could have wasted it elsewhere just as easy, so who knows

so... we dont have to go back to the dealer after 1200 break in?
i m also wondering should i go back to change oil because of the break in....

What does the owner's manual say?

Most of you probably owns an E9X as your very first BMW, so let me be honest with you. I've had BMWs from the mighty E30 all the way up to today's E92, and trust me when I say BMW don't built their cars to last. Nobody does anymore. Don't expect your E92 to still be running 7-8 years from now with 200,000 miles like my E30 318is (17 years and 207,000 miles strong).

Here's a list of things guaranteed to fail within the first 120,000 miles.

Water pump
Coolant expansion tank
Control arms and control arm bushings
Automatic transmission
Valvetrain

No matter how well you try to take care of it, if you're the first owner of your current car, I can guarantee you a major failure within the next 5 years of operation. If you're a second hand owner of an E36/E46/E9X, expect about $2,000-$8,000 worth of bills in the next 2-5 years unless you're mechanically inclined and can fix most of the things that tend to break on a BMW (or modern day car, for that matter).

And I can guaranteed about $2,000 worth of repairs within the first 2 years out of warranty. Count on it. BMW is. They don't expect you to hold on to any of these modern BMWs for more than a couple of years after warranty expires.

All the things you list above have nothing to do with engine oil change intervals.

And what's your point? No one said maintenance and eventual part replacement isn't necessary if you plan keeping the car beyond its warranty period. That doesn't mean you can't expect to get a decent life out of today's cars if you choose to do so.

An so what if you spend $2000 on repairs 2 years out of warranty? That factors into $83/month of expense over 2 years. You should have already paid off your car by then and you'd have no monthly car payment anyhow. Who said cost of ownership of a vehicle is supposed to be free after the warranty expires?

The car adjusts the interval for the driving type..my thought is probably just based off calculated MPG since the harder you drive....the less MPG you get :)

I don't claim to know how BMW choses to decide oil life but it wouldn't be that hard to detect and store 'thermal cycles' which is another term for cold starts that reach operating temperature (and those that don't).

Those thermal cycles do tend to place an extra burden on the anti-corrosive additives that keep the moisture that forms in the oil during the warm up cycle from eating away at the bearing material. If the engine is run at operating temperature long enough to 'cook off' that moisture, it isn't so bad but, if the engine is subjected to repeated short trips and seldom or never brought up to operating temps and left there for a while, the oil will not last as long, whether we are talking synthetics or conventional lubricants.

Engines that are in constant use, such as over-the-road truck engines, get phenonenal oil life and engine life because while they are operated for many hours, the actual 'thermal cycles' are actually quite low. Automobiles are often just the opposite.

This phenomena is why piston engines in seldom used light aircraft can wear out faster when seldom used that when in constant use. The acids in the motor oil actually deterioate the bearings and other wearing surfaces, even (or especially) when the engine is not in use.

Does anyone have a manual from an older BMW? This is before BMW paid for the maintanence.

What do those owner's manuals state?

This topic has been discussed several times in the Roundel Magazine and they state to look at one of the older manuals before BMW started paying to maintain the cars and see the difference in the service intervals. Then and now. And we are not talking about cars from the 80's, we are only talking about a just few years ago.

BMW is not going to go all out to service cars which they need to flip the bill every time the car comes in for scheduled maintenance. The cars are set up for the high end of the threshold when it comes to maintain them.

They only need to last till the warranty is up. Most of the cars don't get CPO anyway after that.

Most of these cars will run 50k with almost nothing done to them. It's the guy that buys them afterwards that gets the big bills.

Does anyone have a manual from an older BMW? This is before BMW paid for the maintanence.

What do those owner's manuals state?

This topic has been discussed several times in the Roundel Magazine and they state to look at one of the older manuals before BMW started paying to maintain the cars and see the difference in the service intervals. Then and now. And we are not talking about cars from the 80's, we are only talking about a just few years ago.

BMW is not going to go all out to service cars which they need to flip the bill every time the car comes in for scheduled maintenance. The cars are set up for the high end of the threshold when it comes to maintain them.

They only need to last till the warranty is up. Most of the cars don't get CPO anyway after that.

Most of these cars will run 50k with almost nothing done to them. It's the guy that buys them afterwards that gets the big bills.
My e36 (318ti) had 3 year free scheduled maintenance in the US when I got it in 97 and the recommended/typical maintenance interval was 9-10K miles. I kept the same interval between oil changes until I sold the car this past summer, so in 10 years and 130K+ miles, I only changed the oil about 14 times and the car was still running great. They guy who bought it from me was amazed at the condition it was it, and I used to drive it very spiritedly.

POrsche doesn't pay for maintenance and their interval is 20,000 miles and it cost about over $1,000 for the first change.

So what's your point again?

POrsche doesn't pay for maintenance and their interval is 20,000 miles and it cost about over $1,000 for the first change.

So what's your point again?
I think his (and many others') point is that German's are idiotic penny pinching freaks who want their cars to break down after warranty so that we can buy new ones, or something like that :rolleyes.

(P.S. The smiley face above means sarcasm in case some missed that point and start flaming me for bashing Germans, which I am not for those who can read into things. Thought I'd put this disclaimer just in case.).

I caught the sarcasm...:)

In 1920 we had to change the oil a lot.

I caught the sarcasm...:)

In 1920 we had to change the oil a lot.
The sarcasm comment was not meant for you in this case BG, just in case you though so. ;)
Yeah I heard they changed oil like every mile back then. That's how WW2 started, when the Germans came around and told them they don't need to do it for another 1000 :D.

POrsche doesn't pay for maintenance and their interval is 20,000 miles and it cost about over $1,000 for the first change.

So what's your point again?

Are you sure it isn't because Porsche wants their cars to fail 2 days after the warranty expires so they can coerce owners into new vehicles? I bet that if they started including maintenance during the warranty period, they'd never tell you to change the oil!!! (Insert sarcastic smiley) (Stupid that this forum doesn't let me post smilies...)

I'm sure that is 100% correct. Ruining their long term reliability creates more sales....yeah that's it.

PS you can post smiley/links/pics after a set amount of posts. You can ask a moderator to lift the spam ban.

To each his own, may we all enjoy our cars without problems.

Smileyfacebuttshinegoathorns!

It's been 6K miles since I did the first out of warranty oil change at 57K. This is my first vehicle with an extended interval and I'm a little apprehensive about going much farther without a filter and oil swap. I have no problems with oil consumption, and the car has seen the dealer only at the recommended interval. I think I'm going to go with the service indicator due to the improvements in oil and engine manufacturing. Lifetime ATF? Well, that's another story!