I purchased my 335i Step/Sports package about a month ago. First I was told by the dealer that it was the updated model with the cooler. I was not familiar enough to know where to look at the time (right fender well). Come to find out, after I purchased the car I, it was a February build and did not have the cooler. Well I figured I would give the car a chance and see how it did without it. After some spirited driving in the mountains, my temps got up to around 290, so I began backing off the car for fear of overheating and a limp mode.
I figured after reading all the goodwill retrofits from these forums for the earlier build Sport/Steps that BMW would step up to the plate for me also. After talking to an initial rep. at BMW customer relations, they stated it should not be a problem and I would receive a follow-up call. Well I received a follow up call today by a somewhat rude female who went on to lecture me that they will not give me the retrofit unless I have actually thrown a limp mode code and that I needed to take it to the dealer so they can verify the code.
So I guess now I need to go back to the mountains and do some more spirited driving so that my temps rise to 300 degrees and I get the limp code. It doesn't matter that they have already hovered at 290 degrees and the only reason why it did not continue to climb is the fact that I began to baby the car.
Unbelievable!

There's been alot said about the cooler on this and other Bimmer forums.

Do a bit of research to get your ducks in a row and then call BMW, request a manager to discuss your situation, and calmly provide reasons why you are entitled to the retrofit.

Good Luck.

or pray you never go into limp mode and if you don't plan to keep the car past the warranty, then nothing gained nothing lost!

or pray you never go into limp mode and if you don't plan to keep the car past the warranty, then nothing gained nothing lost!

If it were a lease, then I would not care. However, since I actually bought the car and put 30K down on it, I planned on keeping it for a long time. Well, maybe not now. :banghead:

I purchased my 335i Step/Sports package about a month ago. First I was told by the dealer that it was the updated model with the cooler. I was not familiar enough to know where to look at the time (right fender well). Come to find out, after I purchased the car I, it was a February build and did not have the cooler. Well I figured I would give the car a chance and see how it did without it. After some spirited driving in the mountains, my temps got up to around 290, so I began backing off the car for fear of overheating and a limp mode.
I figured after reading all the goodwill retrofits from these forums for the earlier build Sport/Steps that BMW would step up to the plate for me also. After talking to an initial rep. at BMW customer relations, they stated it should not be a problem and I would receive a follow-up call. Well I received a follow up call today by a somewhat rude female who went on to lecture me that they will not give me the retrofit unless I have actually thrown a limp mode code and that I needed to take it to the dealer so they can verify the code.
So I guess now I need to go back to the mountains and do some more spirited driving so that my temps rise to 300 degrees and I get the limp code. It doesn't matter that they have already hovered at 290 degrees and the only reason why it did not continue to climb is the fact that I began to baby the car.
Unbelievable!


you bought a 335 a month ago and it's not a 2008? Did you buy a used one?All 2008 335s with Sport get the cooler.

you bought a 335 a month ago and it's not a 2008? Did you buy a used one?All 2008 335s with Sport get the cooler.
He said it is a Feb build! Doesn't have to be used, could be leftover dealer stock, only 6 months old since Feb build usually arrives at dealer in April.

If it were a recall issue I could see you getting upset, but it's not. As a business they don't want to waste money. I don't have an oil cooler on mine and believe me I've tried and I have no idea what it would take to get it to overheat short of running out of coolant/oil, but as it is it doesn't come close. From all of the comments in these threads I'm sure I'm not alone, which makes me wonder if those issues might not be related to oil cooler at all, it could be something else entirely causing the heat to get out of hand. So BMW finds itself it the position of adding coolers for anyone and everyone who reads about it on a forum (which would essentially equate to an optional recall), or just for those who have a documented issue. Frankly, they don't even have to do that much, but it seems that at least they're wanting to take care of people when they have actual problems with the car.

Maybe I can offer my skills as a service to those who need an oil cooler retrofit. I can guarantee that I can make your car go limp and register a fault in the ECU so BMW NA will retrofit the oil cooler.

All I ask, is you pay for my entry fee into one of the local tracks (preferably California Speedway) for a day and lunch money. :)

Maybe I can offer my skills as a service to those who need an oil cooler retrofit. I can guarantee that I can make your car go limp and register a fault in the ECU so BMW NA will retrofit the oil cooler.

All I ask, is you pay for my entry fee into one of the local tracks (preferably California Speedway) for a day and lunch money. :)

Hello "The HACK":

It is strange that some of us could run really high oil temps. without much effort and yet others can not seem to get it up.

Why the difference? There seem to be two groups. The first can get 270 - 290 no problem. The second claim they never get above 240 - 250.

Curious.

Hello "The HACK":

It is strange that some of us could run really high oil temps. without much effort and yet others can not seem to get it up.

Why the difference? There seem to be two groups. The first can get 270 - 290 no problem. The second claim they never get above 240 - 250.

Curious.
Age related? :devillook

Age related? :devillook

Hello "mryakan":

Wait a minute. I am in the first category. They capitulated and gave me the cooler at no charge.

Hello "The HACK":

It is strange that some of us could run really high oil temps. without much effort and yet others can not seem to get it up.

Why the difference? There seem to be two groups. The first can get 270 - 290 no problem. The second claim they never get above 240 - 250.

Curious.

How "aggressive" you drive seems to be a big determining factor on how easily it is to get into limp mode. There's several factors I've observed that, in combination, may result in limp mode.

1: Ambient temp

2: Length of time in WOT

3: Length of time at max boost

4: Speed at max boost.

For example, if ambient temp is above 75 degrees, limp mode can be triggered by REPEATED 2nd gear runs all the way up to redline at WOT. For example, when you're on the track with a lot of 2nd gear corners it'll go limp if you pushed it all the way to redline. Takes about 10-15 minutes of repeated WOT runs in 2nd to redline to go past limp for either the coolant or oil. Again, similar to conditions you'd see on a tighter track.

Drag racers, street racers, and typical daily drivers will likely never see these sort of conditions. If you short shift or don't use 2nd gear much at the track, you'll likely not face the same condition as well. Seems repeated 2nd gear application at redline generates too much heat for the cooling system to evacuate fast enough.

Actually, I'm not sure what it is for certain, those are just my observations. From anecdotal evidence, there are SOME 335i's that are more prone and there are some that are not. So far there's no way for me to collect any real empirical data as to what condition and what driving style trigger it, so the above is purely speculation based on loose observation.

I still think, at the end of the day, the percentage of people this actually affects is way to small for BMW to need to take any sort of action.

How "aggressive" you drive seems to be a big determining factor on how easily it is to get into limp mode. There's several factors I've observed that, in combination, may result in limp mode.

1: Ambient temp

2: Length of time in WOT

3: Length of time at max boost

4: Speed at max boost.

For example, if ambient temp is above 75 degrees, limp mode can be triggered by REPEATED 2nd gear runs all the way up to redline at WOT. For example, when you're on the track with a lot of 2nd gear corners it'll go limp if you pushed it all the way to redline. Takes about 10-15 minutes of repeated WOT runs in 2nd to redline to go past limp for either the coolant or oil. Again, similar to conditions you'd see on a tighter track.

Drag racers, street racers, and typical daily drivers will likely never see these sort of conditions. If you short shift or don't use 2nd gear much at the track, you'll likely not face the same condition as well. Seems repeated 2nd gear application at redline generates too much heat for the cooling system to evacuate fast enough.

Actually, I'm not sure what it is for certain, those are just my observations. From anecdotal evidence, there are SOME 335i's that are more prone and there are some that are not. So far there's no way for me to collect any real empirical data as to what condition and what driving style trigger it, so the above is purely speculation based on loose observation.

I still think, at the end of the day, the percentage of people this actually affects is way to small for BMW to need to take any sort of action.

Hello "The HACK":

Interesting. This is close to what happens during my runs in the mountains. Second and third gear zero to WOT from turn to turn. 30 to 60 minutes at a time. Had to back down before the cooler. Not any more.

I still question how he has an 08 without oil cooler.

I thought I read somewhere that a faulty sensor was causing some problems, but that could just be a marketing ploy.

I've not seen by car go above 250-degrees. I will be going to Willow Springs in January and take a few laps at an event one of our clients are putting on, but I don't plan to be flat out.

I think what most people don't understand is that a turbo car requires more prep to become a race car. All race cars have to deal with track conditions with coolers, dry sump and lots of other things to get it to withstand racing (and this is why racing is such a test of equipment).

But all you have to do is make it go limp...just let it talk to "The Hack" and I'm sure it will :)

Drag racers, street racers, and typical daily drivers will likely never see these sort of conditions. If you short shift or don't use 2nd gear much at the track, you'll likely not face the same condition as well. Seems repeated 2nd gear application at redline generates too much heat for the cooling system to evacuate fast enough.
That's kind of why I don't think BMW should fork out an oil cooler to any old joe who happens to read on a forum that he needs one. If you're pushing your car that hard you're probably in the minority and it sounds like they are willing to help you out. If you're running the car that hard though I can't imagine you care much about how long the engine/drivetrain will last. I know BMWs have a reputation for being well engineered but the last guy I personally knew who would run redlined and push his car hard regularly threw a rod within a few months.

I still question how he has an 08 without oil cooler.

He doesn't. Read his original post. His car is a Feb '07 build.

Hello "The HACK":

It is strange that some of us could run really high oil temps. without much effort and yet others can not seem to get it up.

Why the difference? There seem to be two groups. The first can get 270 - 290 no problem. The second claim they never get above 240 - 250.

Curious.

Some of us know how to drive it and others don't in most cases. Most of the so called "enthusists" believe that they should be able to drive the car in 2nd gear for 2 hrs. at a time 7K rpms. That's not what the car is built for, its a street/cruiser car with a sport package. I have purposely put my car through more stress than even that of which spirited driving shoudl be in 100 degree weather and never had an issue witht he car getting over 260. I also believe that there are a lot of people on here who talk like they own the car, but don't and just post ramdom comments. Can you show us some real proof, possibly a video of your session and a constant view of the temp guage? The one thing that no one has been able to do is provide proof to any of us who have never had a problem.

Also, its not a recall issue and was a gesture of good faith by BMW to satisfy some overly vocal people who never had a real problem, but just bitched enough to get one installed.

Some of us know how to drive it and others don't in most cases. Most of the so called "enthusists" believe that they should be able to drive the car in 2nd gear for 2 hrs. at a time 7K rpms. That's not what the car is built for, its a street/cruiser car with a sport package. I have purposely put my car through more stress than even that of which spirited driving shoudl be in 100 degree weather and never had an issue witht he car getting over 260. I also believe that there are a lot of people on here who talk like they own the car, but don't and just post ramdom comments. Can you show us some real proof, possibly a video of your session and a constant view of the temp guage? The one thing that no one has been able to do is provide proof to any of us who have never had a problem.

Also, its not a recall issue and was a gesture of good faith by BMW to satisfy some overly vocal people who never had a real problem, but just bitched enough to get one installed.

Hello "SocratesBMW":

Can not prove anything anymore. Not since they gave me the cooler. Those of us who have had a problem need prove nothing further.

And, yes, I do own the car. Not me and the bank, not me and the loan company, not me and the lease. Just me. Sort of the way I own my X5. Nothing to prove. Too old to give a damn.

Hello "The HACK":

Interesting. This is close to what happens during my runs in the mountains. Second and third gear zero to WOT from turn to turn. 30 to 60 minutes at a time. Had to back down before the cooler. Not any more.

I also experience the same thing making spirited runs in the mountains. Hit 290 several times, but never really backed down because I wanted to see what the limits really were. That said, I will be tracking the car in the spring, so will be interesting to see. I will most likely contacting BMWNA in the spring if I am still seeing numbers in the 280s-290s, figure maybe I have a good case for one. Oct. '06 build, AT, sport pkg.

The 335i will go into limp mode when the oil temp reaches 260 degrees or more.

I also experience the same thing making spirited runs in the mountains. Hit 290 several times, but never really backed down because I wanted to see what the limits really were. That said, I will be tracking the car in the spring, so will be interesting to see. I will most likely contacting BMWNA in the spring if I am still seeing numbers in the 280s-290s, figure maybe I have a good case for one. Oct. '06 build, AT, sport pkg.

Take pictures.

The 335i will go into limp mode when the oil temp reaches 260 degrees or more.Try again. Limp kicks in at 297 deg. Are you one of those that needs to prove to us that you actually own one?

Here is the only info from the manual:

During standard operation, the engine oil tem-
perature is between approx. 120F and approx.
300F/approx. 50C and approx. 150C. If the
engine oil temperature is too high, a message
will appear on the Control Display.

If you don't see the message then they'll probably just say that it's a part of the standard operating range.

I don't need to prove anything.... BMW does not publish Limp Mode information so how can you say it happens exactly at 297 degrees??

I was wrong, I was thinking of 298 F. From the Engine Management Documentation:


"In the event of the coolant or engine oil being subject to excessive temperatures while the engine is running, certain functions in the vehicle are influenced so that more energy is made available to the engine-cooling system, i.e. temperature-increasing loads are avoided.

These measures are divided into two operating modes:
• Component protection
• Emergency"

Here are the ranges:

At 298 °F on Oil temperature, the A/C and engine go into power reduction mode. At 302 °F the car enters Component Protection operating mode. At 313 °F, the Yellow temperature warning is displayed on the dashboard. At 316 °F the car enters Emergency mode, at 322 °F the Red temperature warning is displayed on the dashboard

At 243 °F on Coolant temperature, the A/C and engine go into power reduction mode. At 243 °F the car enters Component Protection operating mode. At 248 °F, the Yellow temperature warning is displayed on the dashboard. At 257°F the car enters Emergency mode and displays the Red temperature warning is displayed on the dashboard

I don't need to prove anything.... BMW does not publish Limp Mode information so how can you say it happens exactly at 297 degrees??

It's actually been published and talked about to death. TSBs give all that information...and there are BMW techs on the forums.

I don't need to prove anything.... BMW does not publish Limp Mode information so how can you say it happens exactly at 297 degrees??

Actually, they do.

At 302 degrees fahrenheit (150 degrees Celcius) oil temp, the ECU prepares for "component protection." At 304 degrees fahrenheit (151 degrees Celcius) engine goes into "power reduction mode" as temperature increase, throttle decreases. At 315 degrees fahrenheit (157 degrees Celcius) engine goes into full panic mode and "limps."

At 242 degrees fahrenheit (117 degrees Celcius) coolant temp, the ECU prepares for component protection." At 250 degrees fahrenheit (250 degrees Celcius) car goes into limp mode.

For the handful of you who plan on tracking your car on a road course, I recommend you put your cluster into diagnostic mode and keep a very close eye on your coolant temp in addition to oil temp. I am almost certain now that it is a combination of coolant temp AND oil temps that trigger limp mode. So even if your oil temp looks fine (no where near 300) you should still be on your best behavior.

Here's how to check your coolant temp.

Press and hold the milage reset button (10 to 15 seconds) until "01.00 FGSTNR is displayed. Your code is listed under this heading with two letters followed by five numbers. Write these down. Now ADD all five numbers up to get the sum and this is your password to unlock the menu. While in this menu, you can continue to press the reset button to scroll through the "01.xx" menus.

While you are in the "01.xx menu, press and hold the milage reset button again for a few seconds and you will see the "01.xx menu again. Now quickly within a second press and release the reset button 18 more times to get to the menu item number "19 - Unlock". Wait a second or two and you will be prompted to enter the unlock code which is the sum of the number listed in "01.00". To enter the code, press and release the reset button until you arrive at the unlock code number. At this point the menu is unlocked and you can scroll with the reset button to number "07.00" which is the coolant temperature. I only drove for a few miles, but it continued to display while driving and read between 91 and 106 degrees C. I will drive it harder tomorrow and see where I can get it to read.

Again, I'll reiterate. Frankly, I wouldn't really worry about it if you're not tracking, and if you are, pony up for a nice, upgraded radiator and oil cooler (and brakes) before you even head out. It's only about $3,000 worth of parts and work for a little peace of mind on your $40,000 "investment." If you lease, don't even worry about it. That's what limp mode is for, to protect your engine from nuking itself when you push it hard.

I would also look doubly hard at the Dinan software too. It increases the electronic water pump's flow-rate. That is VITAL in keeping this engine cool enough for some real serviceable fun time. Any tuner that does not address the additional heat introduced with their tune isn't worth looking at IMNSHO.

Actually, they do.

At 302 degrees fahrenheit (150 degrees Celcius) oil temp, the ECU prepares for "component protection." At 304 degrees fahrenheit (151 degrees Celcius) engine goes into "power reduction mode" as temperature increase, throttle decreases. At 315 degrees fahrenheit (157 degrees Celcius) engine goes into full panic mode and "limps."

At 242 degrees fahrenheit (117 degrees Celcius) coolant temp, the ECU prepares for component protection." At 250 degrees fahrenheit (250 degrees Celcius) car goes into limp mode.

For the handful of you who plan on tracking your car on a road course, I recommend you put your cluster into diagnostic mode and keep a very close eye on your coolant temp in addition to oil temp. I am almost certain now that it is a combination of coolant temp AND oil temps that trigger limp mode. So even if your oil temp looks fine (no where near 300) you should still be on your best behavior.

Here's how to check your coolant temp.



Again, I'll reiterate. Frankly, I wouldn't really worry about it if you're not tracking, and if you are, pony up for a nice, upgraded radiator and oil cooler (and brakes) before you even head out. It's only about $3,000 worth of parts and work for a little peace of mind on your $40,000 "investment." If you lease, don't even worry about it. That's what limp mode is for, to protect your engine from nuking itself when you push it hard.

I would also look doubly hard at the Dinan software too. It increases the electronic water pump's flow-rate. That is VITAL in keeping this engine cool enough for some real serviceable fun time. Any tuner that does not address the additional heat introduced with their tune isn't worth looking at IMNSHO.

Nice information.

Also I don't buy that Dinan cracked some secret code of BMW that BMW would not put in their system. When the car increases boost, it probably does the same thing. So any of these systems that tricks the ECu will actually have that "speed increase" in the pump system.

Are the brakes on the 335 that bad on the track? They are some of the biggest brakes I've seen on pretty stock (non track) car I've seen. I know there not super 6-pot, but they should be able to handle a day at the track?

Nice information.

Also I don't buy that Dinan cracked some secret code of BMW that BMW would not put in their system. When the car increases boost, it probably does the same thing. So any of these systems that tricks the ECu will actually have that "speed increase" in the pump system.

Are the brakes on the 335 that bad on the track? They are some of the biggest brakes I've seen on pretty stock (non track) car I've seen. I know there not super 6-pot, but they should be able to handle a day at the track?

Dinan didn't crack sh*t. All Dinan engineer figured out, is that BMW didn't bother to engineer enough cooling into the system to address the likely-hood of after-market tuners deciding to up the boost. So they took the step of actually upping the flow-rate of the water-pump MORE than what BMW has already done, because the variable rate water-pump isn't pumping hard enough to keep the engine cool when it's at higher RPM (max boost) when a tuner decides to "trick" the ECU into thinking it's receiving the same amount of boost as OEM. Result? Higher boost, higher heat, same cooling capacity. I'm not going to be in the middle of a pissing match between all 335i owners and their respective "tuner" of choice, all I'm saying is that, to paraphrase Uncle Ben, "with great boost comes great demand on cooling capacity."

As for brakes, if you're likely never to sniff the hot pit side of the track, why worry? BMW does not build these cars to be used for the track and that fact is very clear. I can explain to you why the brakes on the 335i isn't suitable for the track, but I'll just be wasting my breath (or keystrokes). To put it simply, if it's your first time on the track, yeah, what the OE brung will work well enough to keep you off of the walls for a while. Until you figure out the actual difference between an "apex" and a hole on the ground. Then watch the f**k out. These brake pads are designed to provide plenty of grip for street use. They're designed to stop you when cold to moderately hot (like 450 degrees fahrenheit hot). They're not designed to work or even slow you down at all when your brakes reach 1,000 degrees fahrenheit hot (and they'll get that hot, once you figure out the difference between an apex and a hole on the ground).

Not to disparage BMW. They build very nice street cars. There are only a handful of manufacturers out there that can and will build cars with braking systems ready to go to the track from day one, and you (nor I) can't afford any of them new. They all have some sort of pretty ponies or cows or lame crest on their logos. BMW brakes ARE phenomenal for street cars and better than the majority of the manufacturers out there. But driving on the track != driving aggressively on the street no matter how you slice it.

Actually, they do.

At 302 degrees fahrenheit (150 degrees Celcius) oil temp, the ECU prepares for "component protection." At 304 degrees fahrenheit (151 degrees Celcius) engine goes into "power reduction mode" as temperature increase, throttle decreases. At 315 degrees fahrenheit (157 degrees Celcius) engine goes into full panic mode and "limps."

At 242 degrees fahrenheit (117 degrees Celcius) coolant temp, the ECU prepares for component protection." At 250 degrees fahrenheit (250 degrees Celcius) car goes into limp mode.

For the handful of you who plan on tracking your car on a road course, I recommend you put your cluster into diagnostic mode and keep a very close eye on your coolant temp in addition to oil temp. I am almost certain now that it is a combination of coolant temp AND oil temps that trigger limp mode. So even if your oil temp looks fine (no where near 300) you should still be on your best behavior.

Here's how to check your coolant temp.



Again, I'll reiterate. Frankly, I wouldn't really worry about it if you're not tracking, and if you are, pony up for a nice, upgraded radiator and oil cooler (and brakes) before you even head out. It's only about $3,000 worth of parts and work for a little peace of mind on your $40,000 "investment." If you lease, don't even worry about it. That's what limp mode is for, to protect your engine from nuking itself when you push it hard.

I would also look doubly hard at the Dinan software too. It increases the electronic water pump's flow-rate. That is VITAL in keeping this engine cool enough for some real serviceable fun time. Any tuner that does not address the additional heat introduced with their tune isn't worth looking at IMNSHO.

Super info, how do we know the readings are accurate? The gauges are electronic not mechanical and thus subject to the sensor and software that manages the readings. I have posted this a few times and so far I have not seen any proof that the readings that are triggering the limp modes are accurate. You quote some very specific temps that trigger a response from the computer, what if a sensor is out of spec and is sending inaccurate data? that would trigger the same response (limp mode) yet the car may not actually be overly hot.

I don't think this theory has been investigated because I can tell you that my car will not get anyplace past 260 and there have been other cars that do less than I have to reach 260 that have gone into limp mode.

Super info, how do we know the readings are accurate? The gauges are electronic not mechanical and thus subject to the sensor and software that manages the readings. I have posted this a few times and so far I have not seen any proof that the readings that are triggering the limp modes are accurate. You quote some very specific temps that trigger a response from the computer, what if a sensor is out of spec and is sending inaccurate data? that would trigger the same response (limp mode) yet the car may not actually be overly hot.

I don't think this theory has been investigated because I can tell you that my car will not get anyplace past 260 and there have been other cars that do less than I have to reach 260 that have gone into limp mode.

Put your cluster into diagnostic mode, keep an eye on your coolant temp. Both coolant temp AND oil temp will trigger limp mode.

As for the "accuracy" of the temp sensors, these are GERMAN engineers. They're anal about this kind of stuff, and if it's not accurate, they'll have the variances documented to death. From what I've seen with the cluster diagnostics, it's pretty accurate (although I have no other data to compare it to).

Dinan didn't crack sh*t. All Dinan engineer figured out, is that BMW didn't bother to engineer enough cooling into the system to address the likely-hood of after-market tuners deciding to up the boost. So they took the step of actually upping the flow-rate of the water-pump MORE than what BMW has already done, because the variable rate water-pump isn't pumping hard enough to keep the engine cool when it's at higher RPM (max boost) when a tuner decides to "trick" the ECU into thinking it's receiving the same amount of boost as OEM. Result? Higher boost, higher heat, same cooling capacity. I'm not going to be in the middle of a pissing match between all 335i owners and their respective "tuner" of choice, all I'm saying is that, to paraphrase Uncle Ben, "with great boost comes great demand on cooling capacity."



Hello "The HACK":

If I remember correctly (I do not have my DVDs here) the water pump is run slower in some cases to increase the engine temperature in order to get better economy. When the DME "thinks" you want more performance, it will actually increase the flow and run the engine cooler. It is possible that under the "economy" mode, the engine will run hotter than when you are feeling froggy.

Now, as many of us have seen ourselves, if you happen to be feeling like a big hairy mutant frog, then all bets are off.

Dinan didn't crack sh*t. All Dinan engineer figured out, is that BMW didn't bother to engineer enough cooling into the system to address the likely-hood of after-market tuners deciding to up the boost. So they took the step of actually upping the flow-rate of the water-pump MORE than what BMW has already done, because the variable rate water-pump isn't pumping hard enough to keep the engine cool when it's at higher RPM (max boost) when a tuner decides to "trick" the ECU into thinking it's receiving the same amount of boost as OEM. Result? Higher boost, higher heat, same cooling capacity. I'm not going to be in the middle of a pissing match between all 335i owners and their respective "tuner" of choice, all I'm saying is that, to paraphrase Uncle Ben, "with great boost comes great demand on cooling capacity."

As for brakes, if you're likely never to sniff the hot pit side of the track, why worry? BMW does not build these cars to be used for the track and that fact is very clear. I can explain to you why the brakes on the 335i isn't suitable for the track, but I'll just be wasting my breath (or keystrokes). To put it simply, if it's your first time on the track, yeah, what the OE brung will work well enough to keep you off of the walls for a while. Until you figure out the actual difference between an "apex" and a hole on the ground. Then watch the f**k out. These brake pads are designed to provide plenty of grip for street use. They're designed to stop you when cold to moderately hot (like 450 degrees fahrenheit hot). They're not designed to work or even slow you down at all when your brakes reach 1,000 degrees fahrenheit hot (and they'll get that hot, once you figure out the difference between an apex and a hole on the ground).

Not to disparage BMW. They build very nice street cars. There are only a handful of manufacturers out there that can and will build cars with braking systems ready to go to the track from day one, and you (nor I) can't afford any of them new. They all have some sort of pretty ponies or cows or lame crest on their logos. BMW brakes ARE phenomenal for street cars and better than the majority of the manufacturers out there. But driving on the track != driving aggressively on the street no matter how you slice it.

Here's my tip to you my fine friend, lose the "I know more than the world attitude" and maybe people will like you. I full understand the differences in brake performance, apex, heat ranges and tuning of cars for performance. So when you give some good information, leave out the "waste of time" if this is a waste of time to talk about cars and such...don't post, don't waste your time.

Your pissing match is self inflicted. I still don't buy that DINAN found something that isn't already there...but that is something for me to believe and you not. It's pretty obvious that the car can benefit a bigger Oil Cooler to add a piece of mind.

And I'm sure some people out there can understand your great wisdom about "how to go to a track" ...it all just comes down to money. If you really want to "track" a car you're better off buying a purpose built car...or maybe one of the more affordable track toys

Elise
Z-track
C6 Z51

But like anything there is always better parts and performance to be had.

Here's my tip to you my fine friend, lose the "I know more than the world attitude" and maybe people will like you. I full understand the differences in brake performance, apex, heat ranges and tuning of cars for performance. So when you give some good information, leave out the "waste of time" if this is a waste of time to talk about cars and such...don't post, don't waste your time.

Your pissing match is self inflicted. I still don't buy that DINAN found something that isn't already there...but that is something for me to believe and you not. It's pretty obvious that the car can benefit a bigger Oil Cooler to add a piece of mind.

And I'm sure some people out there can understand your great wisdom about "how to go to a track" ...it all just comes down to money. If you really want to "track" a car you're better off buying a purpose built car...or maybe one of the more affordable track toys

Elise
Z-track
C6 Z51

But like anything there is always better parts and performance to be had.

*cough* bullsh*t *cough*

Here's a tip. I'm not your friend, so you don't have to pretend you actually know something that you don't to impress me. From what I've seen of your post, you don't know much. (335d faster than 335i anyone?) So don't pretend you know what an apex is, or what "performance driving" is, or what "tuning" is.

Frankly responding to you is a waste of my time. I'm not here to make friends, it's a freakin' internet forum.

You've been exposed. Buh-bye.:rolleyes

*cough* bullsh*t *cough*

Here's a tip. I'm not your friend, so you don't have to pretend you actually know something that you don't to impress me. From what I've seen of your post, you don't know much. (335d faster than 335i anyone?) So don't pretend you know what an apex is, or what "performance driving" is, or what "tuning" is.

Frankly responding to you is a waste of my time. I'm not here to make friends, it's a freakin' internet forum.

You've been exposed. Buh-bye.:rolleyes

Okay tough guy, whatever you want to believe...as I offered before-Anytime you want to drift your way over to me and feel froggy. Just jump.

Some day somebody will like you then you can talk to people in a more appropriate tone and fashion than you large head allows. Feel good about knowing that brakes get hot, and cars need to be altered to race makes you a hero of mine.

As a tip from somebody who thinks your knowledgeable and a huge douche...leave out your cool guy I know more than everybody attitude and you'll have more than one friend in your life.

As for the "accuracy" of the temp sensors, these are GERMAN engineers. They're anal about this kind of stuff, and if it's not accurate, they'll have the variances documented to death. From what I've seen with the cluster diagnostics, it's pretty accurate (although I have no other data to compare it to).

I am actually referring to possibly defective sensors not the accuracy of a working one. There have been a few oil level sensors that read incorrectly and have caused warning that are not accurate. I think some of the sensors that are triggering high temps might fall in the same category. Obviously no proof but it's the only explanation for why some cars don't get as hot as others.

I am actually referring to possibly defective sensors not the accuracy of a working one. There have been a few oil level sensors that read incorrectly and have caused warning that are not accurate. I think some of the sensors that are triggering high temps might fall in the same category. Obviously no proof but it's the only explanation for why some cars don't get as hot as others.

It's possible. The thermostats on BMWs are notorious for their rate of failure. However, I've not seen such high rate of failure in other cars that has oil temperature sensors. For example, the E46 M3 has an oil temp sensor and I've never seen a single failure on the sensor (does not mean they don't fail, just that their rate of failure is low enough I haven't encountered one yet).

I mean it's entirely possible, but I think the behavior of a failed sensor would report a temperature that's too low rather than too high, just like the oil level sensor reports a level that's too low.

p.s.: The oil level sensor problem is well known and widespread. I had to replace 3 oil level sensors, twice on my wife's E46 323Ci, once on our Z4 3.0i. If the oil level all of a sudden reads low on my wife's E92 328i, I wouldn't add oil right away. I'd probably drain it and see how much comes out first.

And don't get me started on the lack of a dipstick. It used to take me 15 minutes to change oil.

Hello "SocratesBMW":

Can not prove anything anymore. Not since they gave me the cooler. Those of us who have had a problem need prove nothing further.

And, yes, I do own the car. Not me and the bank, not me and the loan company, not me and the lease. Just me. Sort of the way I own my X5. Nothing to prove. Too old to give a damn.

Good thing you're pointing out to us how much money you have to waste by just buying depreciating assets outright. It really adds to your credibility. Again, until any of the "talkers" can actually provide proof, we'll continue being skeptikal about these claims.

Hello "The HACK":

It is strange that some of us could run really high oil temps. without much effort and yet others can not seem to get it up.

Why the difference? There seem to be two groups. The first can get 270 - 290 no problem. The second claim they never get above 240 - 250.

Curious.

Are those with manual transmissions having the oil temp issues? Or just autos? It would be logical that the autos would get hotter since the turbos are always spooled even between shifts, where the boost comes off when shifting a manual thus giving the oil in the turbos brief moments to recover.


Nice information.

Also I don't buy that Dinan cracked some secret code of BMW that BMW would not put in their system. When the car increases boost, it probably does the same thing. So any of these systems that tricks the ECu will actually have that "speed increase" in the pump system.

Are the brakes on the 335 that bad on the track? They are some of the biggest brakes I've seen on pretty stock (non track) car I've seen. I know there not super 6-pot, but they should be able to handle a day at the track?

Dinan made over 2000 programming changes in their program with almost no help at all from BMW. Certainly BMW has certain speed changes for the WP in different cituations, but only those situations that are expected to happen with stock limitations in mind. There's no telling how the WP speed would be affected if it's programming settings were left unchanged on a modded car with increased temps and situations that are not supposed to be possible according to the original programming.