More of a long rant than asking advice, however...

I have been checking my oil level, via the stalk mounted computer, over the last two days - just like I do everyday. Yesterday, I get a "ding" and the oil low sensor comes on. I check the oil and sure enough, it shows below the min with "1 qt+". This is WEIRD :eyecrazy since I had just checked it not 10 miles prior and it was at the max. So I go over to the nearest BMW dealer (not my selling dealer), about 3 miles away, and they give me a quart of oil for free. He gives me the advice that this may be a sensor issue and not to add all the oil at once. So, in goes 1/3 of the quart. I drive the car for a while and check the oil - no change and still showing one quart low. I add 1/3 more and then drive some more. This time, I wait for the oil to come up to normal temperatures and pull into a parking area and let it idle for 30 seconds to negate any chance that this is oil sloshing around while driving. No change when I check it. I go into the mall to do some shopping and come out. Once the oil was warm again, I check it and it now shows exactly half way between min and max. Huh? How does that work.

I called the BMW dealer where I bought the car and gave the service manager the above information and he tells me that 1 quart of oil in 7300+ miles is normal. I agree with him but I ask him how it can go from Max to Min 1 qt+ low in five miles without belching miles of blue smoke? "You were probably turning or accelerating and this is a reading error." I remind him that the car was checked with the cruise control on, in steady traffic and finally idling in a parking lot. "Well, this is normal and you should add the remaining 1/3 quart." I told him that I am a professional pilot, an accomplished shade tree mechanic and not the dimmest bulb in the socket and I disagree with his assessment.

Today I go out doing errands and once everything is warmed up, I check the oil level again. Full, at the max line. I call my selling BMW dealer, cancel my appointment with them and reschedule with the one that suggested that this may be a sensor issue. Before you flame me, each time I check the oil, the engine is warm, the car is on cruise control, no accelerating, hard turns or any other variables. Each time I checked it, I doulbe and triple checked it to ensure it wasn't a one time error.

So, have other owners had issues with oil levels that magically appear all over the scale? I sure wish I had a dipstick! That would solve all my questions. While I am wishing (it is Christmas isn't it) I wish I had a water temp gauge and a voltmeter.

Gary
'07 328xi

There have been reported oil sensor issue. Kinda sucks when you have no dipstick, so you are doing the right thing to take it in and did the right thing for what you experienced. They will drain the oil and measure it to deduce if a sensor is broken.
Now I agree with the water temp gauge, but I haven't seen a voltmeter on a car in the last 20 years almost, I would think that is redundant, but definitely it seems the trend at least with BMW is less gauges, maybe they just get too many complaints or they trust sensors/software too much. I wouldn't be surprised if the oil temp gauge disappears on the 335 too.

... I haven't seen a voltmeter on a car in the last 20 years almost...

Voltmeter - no. But I was using that term generically for voltmeter, ammeter, battery indicator, etc. Old school, I guess but I prefer to see how my engine is doing versus having the computer tell me.

I would assume, from watching friends and reading post here and other places, that we NEED the computer to tell us when things are going badly. Apparently not enough of us read the manual or even have an understanding of basic car knowledge. I laughed out loud when I was on a Toyota forum and a guy was asking if changing his power steering fluid would cause the radiator leak he was now seeing. :eek: That is the kind of unknowing question that makes idiot lights and computer based warnings necessary, I guess.

Gary

I checked mine the 1st time yesterday with 500 miles on my '08. It was right at the max line. Now it took about two minutes before it ever came back and told be the oil level.

I checked it today and it popped up instantly (still at max).

Why did it have to think about it for two minutes yesterday and today it knows instantly? Makes me wonder if it really checked it or just redisplayed the
same thing it told me yesterday.

Voltmeter - no. But I was using that term generically for voltmeter, ammeter, battery indicator, etc. Old school, I guess but I prefer to see how my engine is doing versus having the computer tell me.

I would assume, from watching friends and reading post here and other places, that we NEED the computer to tell us when things are going badly. Apparently not enough of us read the manual or even have an understanding of basic car knowledge. I laughed out loud when I was on a Toyota forum and a guy was asking if changing his power steering fluid would cause the radiator leak he was now seeing. :eek: That is the kind of unknowing question that makes idiot lights and computer based warnings necessary, I guess.

Gary

Hello "Grumpa72":

There is old-school and really old-school. I fall into the second category. But, part of my training for one of my degrees was in computer control and automation. This lets me appreciate the sophistication of the BMW systems. They have computers monitoring their computers. Many of their sensors and other devices are not just directly connected. The E9x uses the K-CAN and the PT-CAN bus (among others such as the MOST bus) to control/monitor engine/chassis/audio devices. This allows tremendous flexibility and capability. The down side is that many signals are not available unless you read them through the DME.

Perhaps after they get done firing most of us I can spend some time working on how to get to all this data.

I checked mine the 1st time yesterday with 500 miles on my '08. It was right at the max line. Now it took about two minutes before it ever came back and told be the oil level.

I checked it today and it popped up instantly (still at max).

Why did it have to think about it for two minutes yesterday and today it knows instantly? Makes me wonder if it really checked it or just redisplayed the
same thing it told me yesterday.

The difference is normal and explained in the manual. As I understand it, if the engine and oil aren't up to normal operating temperatures AND you haven't been operating the car for several minutes, then the computer will wait. That is why you get the clock signal. For instance, drive the car for a long distance and shut down for a couple of minutes to get gas. Start it up and, of course, the engine temps are still normal but the computer will give you the clock indicating it needs to think a little bit more.

Gary

I checked mine the 1st time yesterday with 500 miles on my '08. It was right at the max line. Now it took about two minutes before it ever came back and told be the oil level.

I checked it today and it popped up instantly (still at max).

Why did it have to think about it for two minutes yesterday and today it knows instantly? Makes me wonder if it really checked it or just redisplayed the
same thing it told me yesterday.
depends how long the car has been running, and no it is not a stale reading, it recomputes every time.

I have concerns with the gauge on my wife's 328 after I changed the oil and filter, refilled the oil w/ only 6 qts. and the gauge (for the nect 120+ mi. said the oil was MAX! (it should take 6.9 qts) It eventually started reading 1/2 between low and max so I added 1/3 qt.

Personally, I will only check it after a 15+ mi. drive and only after I've stopped and let it idle for 30 sec. or more.

Give me back the damn dipstick!!! They aren't that complex!

Give me back the damn dipstick!!! They aren't that complex!

Amen! Almost 30 cars in my lifetime and not one leak from a dipstick tube. You KNOW the oil level when you pull the dipstick out!.

Btw, For the past two days, my car has registered MAX and no variation. This, despite the prior days reading of Max, below max "1 qt +" reading, halfway between MIN and MAX, and halfway between the mid point and MIN. All without any additional oil and all with a well warmed up engine.

Gary

I had the sensor in my 335 replaced after 2 months. Since then I have found that I get the low oil level if I part on a hill (Nose down) and then start the car and let it idle for a while.

Takes almost 30 minutes to fix itself and register the correct oil level.

Had this problem before, made appointment to have the dealer look into it. The tech drained the oil and found it was at the correct level, replaced the sensor...it has been working good ever since.

About a week to two after that, BMW issued a newsletter to dealerships to drive the car longer to get the oil moving and evaporate any moisture in there causing the sensor issue!

Had this problem before, made appointment to have the dealer look into it. The tech drained the oil and found it was at the correct level, replaced the sensor...it has been working good ever since.

About a week to two after that, BMW issued a newsletter to dealerships to drive the car longer to get the oil moving and evaporate any moisture in there causing the sensor issue!
Hi 777ER,
Does your 777 have a dipstick? if so do you check it? :D or do you trust the computer? Sorry not trying to pick on you but use you as an example how in some cases we trust technology because we are used to it while elsewhere we look for ways to discredit it. Yeah sensors may fail , but the worst case on a car is having to take it in for a checkup, while on an airplane we trust hundreds or thousands of sensors to keep hundreds of people alive. Anyone else sense double standards?

Hi 777ER,
Does your 777 have a dipstick? ...


Boeing aircraft typically have both a dipstick for the mechanic to check engine oil during preflight inspections whereas the pilots actually have a gauge measuring quantity of oil. In addition, there is usually a separate, and independent circuit that will tell you when the engine oil gets low. That usually triggers an engine warning and/or light.

I don't fly the B-777 but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night! :D

Seriously, though, both the dipstick and gauge are valuable tools but pilots are not authorized to open the engine cowling to check the dipstick.

Gary

Boeing aircraft typically have both a dipstick for the mechanic to check engine oil during preflight inspections whereas the pilots actually have a gauge measuring quantity of oil. In addition, there is usually a separate, and independent circuit that will tell you when the engine oil gets low. That usually triggers an engine warning and/or light.

I don't fly the B-777 but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night! :D

Seriously, though, both the dipstick and gauge are valuable tools but pilots are not authorized to open the engine cowling to check the dipstick.

Gay

... and we are becoming more like pilots whether we like it or not. The more technology advances, the less trust engineers, executives and legislators will have in the "pilot"/"driver" and the less they will trust/allow them to do things themselves without a computer, and the more isolated we'll feel/be. Honestly, as long as things work as they are supposed to, I don't care, although I like to know how the things I use work, but if there is someone to fix it for me when it when it breaks, I'm apathetic for the lack of dipstick or gauges. I'll find other things to keep me worried ;).

P.S. You misspelled your name in a "joyful" way :embarrasm.

... and we are becoming more like pilots whether we like it or not. The more technology advances, the less trust engineers, executives and legislators will have in the "pilot"/"driver" and the less they will trust/allow them to do things themselves without a computer, and the more isolated we'll feel/be. Honestly, as long as things work as they are supposed to, I don't care, although I like to know how the things I use work, but if there is someone to fix it for me when it when it breaks, I'm apathetic for the lack of dipstick or gauges. I'll find other things to keep me worried ;).

P.S. You misspelled your name in a "joyful" way :embarrasm.

Hello "mryakan":

And the oil quality and oil level sensor on the 335 is something an EE would really appreciate.

Hello "mryakan":

And the oil quality and oil level sensor on the 335 is something an EE would really appreciate.
You're having too much fun reading the WDS old man, do share more than just teasers :stickoutt.

You're having too much fun reading the WDS old man, do share more than just teasers :stickoutt.

Hello "mryakan":

Hey, that is Dr. "Old Man" to the likes of you. Anyway, I have attached some information. Sorry about the poor quality of the file. I had to compress it in order to meet the limitations of the Forum.

Enjoy.

Hello "mryakan":

Hey, that is Dr. "Old Man" to the likes of you. Anyway, I have attached some information. Sorry about the poor quality of the file. I had to compress it in order to meet the limitations of the Forum.

Enjoy.
lol, I am not sure what the likes of me are, wouldn't want to run into them :devillook. I could have been your kind but I decided that a Masters in CE is enough and wanted to start making money earlier, we'll see if that is a wise decision when I retire! ;)

Anyway "Dr. Old Man", thanks for sharing. I found this sentence to be of interest to those seeing possibly wrong oil level readings:

"Condensate that forms in the crankcase due to short distance driving can influence the permittivity"

Here is how they describe how the oil level is measured:

"The oil level is measured for the electronic oil level check. The 2nd capacitor in the upper part of the oil condition sensor registers the oil level with the engine running. The capacitor is at the same level as the oil level in the oil sump. As the oil level changes, the capacitance of the capacitor changes. The electronic evaluation unit creates a digital signal from this. The engine management system uses this to calculate the engine oil level."

lol, I am not sure what the likes of me are, wouldn't want to run into them :devillook. I could have been your kind but I decided that a Masters in CE is enough and wanted to start making money earlier, we'll see if that is a wise decision when I retire! ;)

Anyway "Dr. Old Man", thanks for sharing. I found this sentence to be of interest to those seeing possibly wrong oil level readings:

"Condensate that forms in the crankcase due to short distance driving can influence the permittivity"

Here is how they describe how the oil level is measured:

"The oil level is measured for the electronic oil level check. The 2nd capacitor in the upper part of the oil condition sensor registers the oil level with the engine running. The capacitor is at the same level as the oil level in the oil sump. As the oil level changes, the capacitance of the capacitor changes. The electronic evaluation unit creates a digital signal from this. The engine management system uses this to calculate the engine oil level."


Hello "mryakan":

Thank you for pointing out what I learned the hard way :). All those degrees and my job is still at risk. No kidding, 20 years from High School graduation until I left the University for good. Only to go back part time to teach! Some never learn.

Amazing engineering in these BMWs.

Hello "mryakan":

Thank you for pointing out what I learned the hard way :). All those degrees and my job is still at risk. No kidding, 20 years from High School graduation until I left the University for good. Only to go back part time to teach! Some never learn.

Amazing engineering in these BMWs.
Sorry, didn't mean to "rub it in". :( Do you know your survival chances yet?
Yeah BMW does have an interesting list of technologies and the one in the pipeline are even more amazing. I expect in less than 10 years you will have a BMW that drives you. Oh wait, they already have one :D:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11466409&postcount=3

Maybe then in 10 years it will teach you instead of the other way.

[quote=mryakan;11492214P.S. You misspelled your name in a "joyful" way :embarrasm.[/quote]


Holy Freudian slip, Batman

Gary

Sorry, didn't mean to "rub it in". :( Do you know your survival chances yet?
Yeah BMW does have an interesting list of technologies and the one in the pipeline are even more amazing. I expect in less than 10 years you will have a BMW that drives you. Oh wait, they already have one :D:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11466409&postcount=3

Maybe then in 10 years it will teach you instead of the other way.


Hello "mryakan":

No problem. It is more likely that they will just kill me rather than pay the amount of severance due to someone my age and years of servitude (oh, I intended to say service).

Judging by my and the wife's mass to height ratio, we could go for some time without a lot of food. More the wife than me.

Judging by my and the wife's mass to height ratio, we could go for some time without a lot of food. More the wife than me.

So your wife's email address is what? :nono

Just out of curiosity, why do you guys check your oil level?

Just out of curiosity, why do you guys check your oil level?
For me , it is because I make bets with my imaginary friend whether it is still at max or not, and I seem to always win! He never pays up though!!

Just out of curiosity, why do you guys check your oil level?

Hello "raleedy":

I guess the answer is the same as the infamous response to the dog question. "Because he can."

Hi 777ER,
Does your 777 have a dipstick? if so do you check it? :D or do you trust the computer? Sorry not trying to pick on you but use you as an example how in some cases we trust technology because we are used to it while elsewhere we look for ways to discredit it. Yeah sensors may fail , but the worst case on a car is having to take it in for a checkup, while on an airplane we trust hundreds or thousands of sensors to keep hundreds of people alive. Anyone else sense double standards?

Boeing aircraft typically have both a dipstick for the mechanic to check engine oil during preflight inspections whereas the pilots actually have a gauge measuring quantity of oil. In addition, there is usually a separate, and independent circuit that will tell you when the engine oil gets low. That usually triggers an engine warning and/or light.

I don't fly the B-777 but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night! :D

Seriously, though, both the dipstick and gauge are valuable tools but pilots are not authorized to open the engine cowling to check the dipstick.

Gary

There's no dipstick on any of the jets I work on! :stickoutt
Just a sight gauge with markings for quarts needed to top it off ;)

As for the crew, there's a oil qty remaining on the EICAS screen for each engine(Engine Indicating and Crew Alerting System)

Open panel, look at the sight gauge (need a flashlight if it's cloudy out) and look where the golden oil color line is, if it lines up with the 2qt mark...it means it needs 2 more quarts to top it off.

It's topped off whenever the crew calls maintenance control and tells them the oil is reading low...
or it's in a transit check (every other day) along with a few things to check at the same time.

The jet engine is basically a dry sump oiling system...the scavenger pump always sucks oil more than the postive displacement pump can pump out...keeps the main pump full of oil at all times. Basically it lubes the main bearings and the gearbox gears (for the accessories such as fuel pump, generators, oil pump, etc)

There's a requirement...at least 15 mins after engine shutdown is when to check the oil level. Doing so right after shutdown or within a few mins can cause a low reading and you end up overservicing the oil since all the oil inside the engine goes downpath to the holding tank filling up slowly.

There's no need to open the C-duct on the engine cowling or the thrust reversers to service the oil...those are heavy! And you need to use a hydraulic hand pump to pump open the C-ducts...it goes like this, unlock the latches, attach the hose to the quick disconnect and start pumping....takes about at least 10 mins to get them opened.

There's panels for servicing the enigne oil. Anything else that doesn't have an access panel on the cowl needs to have the C-ducts opened up.
Here's a pic of the location of the oil servicing panel on the 777:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1265914/L/
No wonder i park the pickup truck right next to it and climb to the top of the cab to service it :D

As for sensors...the oil level sensor is quite accurate.
Once in a while the proximity sensors get dirty or gives a intermit reading on the landing gears...most of the time it's either the weight on wheel or air/ground status one.
A simple degreaser sprayed on the sensor face and wiped clean usually fixes it...if not then replace the sensor.
If at least 2 sensors fails on the affected landing gear, it will not retract.
If it fails while retracted, it will still extend.

One time I came to work in the morning to find a few guys worked all night on a plane they could not figure out why the engine overtemp at any power just above idle.
The problem happened when it was taking off into climb then the engine overtemp'ed and engine fire warning went off. They shut down that engine and flew around the airport and came in for a emergency landing on one engine.
The night shift opened the whole bottom engine cowl open, a few access plates, checked a few things, ran the engine again and still the same problem.
Then they left when we came in...so me and a co-worker climbed to the top of the engine, opened the bleed air valve access panel to find a 3" steel tube has bursted opened letting hot air out the 14th stage section of the engine uncontrollably which could have been used to cool it down had it not bursted open.
300-500 degrees of hot air comes out of this duct for the nacelle intake and wing/tail anti-icing, plus provides bleed air for the air conditioning and pressurization packs to run them.
Lucky we had the Y-duct in stock in the parts room and replaced it...what me and a co-worker don't get is why did that overpressure sensor did not close the valve when it reached a set overpressure limit...it did not set a fail message or warning...I replaced that sensor as a precaution.

The next day I came in work, a different plane with the same type of engine was parked in front of the office...the night shift found the overpressure sensor broke in half when the pilot reported a 'BLEED VLV FAIL" message when parked at the gate...what a suprise that they looked at the top part first now...
The night shift thought they had another one but it was used on a plane I fixed the day before and the parts guy did not update the inventory in the computer system.
It had to be flown in from another airport who had it.


There's a saying...on a Airbus it takes 3 hours to troubleshoot down to a faulty sesnor...but 3 mins to change it.
On a Boeing...it takes 3 mins to troubleshoot but 3 hours to change a mechanical unit ;)

06 BMW 330XI and I am on my 4th oilsensor. First one happened at around 25000 kms. Oil thingie came on the display saying it needed a litre. Waited a cpl days and it stayed on so I added a litre..............no change. called my dealer. they said do not add any more. I live 250 miles from my dealer and offered to drain out all the oil and add 4 litres and drive it to them. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO they sent a tow truck and picked it up. Two more sensors after that and the mech says he can't believe that anyone would build a motor without a dipstick. dumb dumb dumb. Other than that i love the car. Best thing i did was get rid of the run flat tires.

hello,
was wondering if anyone else had this come up. i drove for awhile and checked the oil indicator and it showed the small timer letting you know to hold on while its checking. it did not check though instead it stayed there making me wait.

a couple days ago it said it had low oil and it has 5000 miles which is normal because it will use some oil and you can fill it up with a quart of synthetic. today when i checked for the first time it did not show that it was low it said it was normal. the second time it wouldnt let me check as I said.

hello,
was wondering if anyone else had this come up. i drove for awhile and checked the oil indicator and it showed the small timer letting you know to hold on while its checking. it did not check though instead it stayed there making me wait.

a couple days ago it said it had low oil and it has 5000 miles which is normal because it will use some oil and you can fill it up with a quart of synthetic. today when i checked for the first time it did not show that it was low it said it was normal. the second time it wouldnt let me check as I said.

A simple search would have yielded this thread which I merged yours into.
I will not stop reiterating to everyone to use the search capability before posting duplicate queries, makes my life easier and additionally, you won't have to keep hearing me mentioning it over and over again, so its a win/win.

the mech says he can't believe that anyone would build a motor without a dipstick. dumb dumb dumb.

We have been over this a million times. Mechanics (that want a dipstick) don't drove '06 BMW's. Nor are they aware that from a financial point of view, it saves BMW money. It's win win. MOST (that means not ALL) owners will NEVER use a dipstick. EVER

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/DeadHorse.gif

A simple search would have yielded this thread which I merged yours into.
I will not stop reiterating to everyone to use the search capability before posting duplicate queries, makes my life easier and additionally, you won't have to keep hearing me mentioning it over and over again, so its a win/win.
search feature did not work today and made me wait for minutes without turning up any results.

hello,
was wondering if anyone else had this come up. i drove for awhile and checked the oil indicator and it showed the small timer letting you know to hold on while its checking. it did not check though instead it stayed there making me wait.

a couple days ago it said it had low oil and it has 5000 miles which is normal because it will use some oil and you can fill it up with a quart of synthetic. today when i checked for the first time it did not show that it was low it said it was normal. the second time it wouldnt let me check as I said.

Yes, it is in the manual but, in a nutshell, here it is.

You get the timer indicating that the oil is ready to be checked. You have to drive several miles, with normal oil temps before it will indicate. If you stop the engine, go in for a coffee and come back, you will get the timer again. there is an known issue whereby the oil sensing level will give a low level indication when the car hasn't been driven enough to burn off the moisture that accumulates in the oil. If you do lots of start and stop driving without a good long drive in there somewhere, you can get a false oil sensing.

Thanks for telling me that. I appreciate it.