I finally found an E36 to hack up (I couldn't bring myself to tear up my M) so I could begin my LS1 swap. I picked this 325is from Fair on Friday. It has 274,000 miles and was still running, although the automatic transmission started out in 3rd gear (GM piece of crap). When I got the car it was already partially gutted. Pictures of when Fair had it are here (actual condition of when I got it are about 1/2 way in) ----> http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/1908372#96359012

I am primarily building this as a street beast, but also will see some SCCA Solo racing in XP. I started hacking it up even more as soon as I got it off the trailer.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0666.jpg

After opening up the engine wiring I started to wonder what the hell I was doing!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0667.jpg

Heater core/blower unit removed.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0669.jpg

I'm unsure if I am going to leave the door windows or not.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0670.jpg

Everybody said that the sunroof assembly was 40-50 lbs. I thought that was an exaggeration until I got all the screws out and it landed on me.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0671.jpg

A lot of junk in the trunk!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0673.jpg

Good twin:)...Evil twin:mad

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0674.jpg

Engine compartment crap.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0677.jpg

The heater core/blower unit. If this ever went out in my M3...I would take it to the dealer before I would do this. It was hard enough getting this thing out when I didn't give a crap about breaking stuff....I couldn't imagine doing this and being careful!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0678.jpg

Dash with all the vents and other crap gutted.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0679.jpg

Front end removed for easy access:buttrock

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0680.jpg

chevy engines do not belong in BMW's...but i could be wrong

Starting the underside gutting for the engine removal.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0682.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0683.jpg

Starting to get rid of the boat anchor!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0684.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0685.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0686.jpg

It's out...finally:D...Also for sale!!!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0689.jpg

This is where I called it a night. Not too bad considering I didn't plan to even come close to having the engine removed today.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0696.jpg

In the winter months to come I will be swapping in the parts that I have collected: Front M3 brakes and kingpins, rear M3 trailing arms and brakes, Z3 steering rack, and a Ford Cobra :confused aluminum differential:eyecrazy, as well as the LS1/T56, some big rubber all the way around, and some other parts as they trickle in.

chevy engines do not belong in BMW's...but i could be wrong

True most of the time. The best car deserves the best engine. In this case it is a compact all aluminum V-8 that comes with a bullet proof 6 speed. I'm not wild about this engine being a chevy (better than a Ford though), but you have to look at the package as a whole. This motor makes crazy power...if you breath on it wrong it gains hp!

Tonight I got the rear end tore out. Wasn't too bad other than the whole suspension/differential/subframe falling off my jack b/c it wasn't centered. It really helps to have 2 people when working on stuff like this. Anyway here are the pics.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0717.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0719.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0720.jpg

I also sat the Cobra differential next to the stock 325 differential as well as next to the subframe. I started to see a little of what this differential swap is going to consist of. The front mounts on the Cobra differential will need to be moved. As they sit right now they conflict with the lower control arm mounts in the subframe. Not too big of a deal though. Stuff like that is to be expected.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0728.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0729.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0731.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0730.jpg

Shoulda done an e30, but that's pretty sick. What's the difference between the T56 and the T5060? I think my 97 Z28 has a T5060 but i'm not sure, it's a 6speed tho.


Oh and how much do you think it will weigh when it's done? Are you going to widen the wheel well to accomodate larger tires?

Great thread - subscribing.

Shoulda done an e30, but that's pretty sick.
There's an E30 LS1 build in this sub-forum (garrett and steve). It involves a bit more fabrication work than the E36, due to a shorter and even narrower engine bay and subsequent brake booster/mc relocation.

What's the difference between the T56 and the T5060? I think my 97 Z28 has a T5060 but i'm not sure, it's a 6speed tho.
The 4th gen LT1 F-bodies also had a Tremec T56 transmission, essentially identical to the 4th gen LS1 F-body units. There were some notable differences, of course, and its a real pain to get the LS1 specific parts converted onto a LT1 specific T56. There's a version for Ford (Cobra), Dodge (Viper), Cadillac (CTS-V), several for Chevy (Corvette, SSR and F-bodies).

The easiest version (and by far the most abundant and affordable) to make work in an E36 with an LS1 is the '98-02 Camaro/Firebird LS1 T56 variant.

Oh and how much do you think it will weigh when it's done?
Well, we have gutted our E36 LS1 (Alpha) to similar levels as it looks like Colin's project will go to... and its 2530 lbs soaking wet. We still have the original steel hood, trunk, much of the dash, all of the interior steel/structure, and all the factory glass except the door side windows (which are aluminum LTW doors). Our XP classed car's goal is mid 2300 pound range with the addition of CF panels, Lexan and lighter wheels.

http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/218823013-S-1.jpghttp://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/223978345-S.jpg

Are you going to widen the wheel well to accomodate larger tires?
Dunno what he's gonna do... he talked about running a whole lotta tire. :cool Usually this means flares all around, and the associated inner fender mods needed on the rear.

Man you got the drivetrain and dash out fast!

Very cool. I've always wanted an LS1 in something... definitely one of my favorite engines.

Man you got the drivetrain and dash out fast!

I don't mess around with my toys!:buttrock

Tonight I worked on disfiguring the front suspension. It amazes me how simple the front suspension is on the 3 series BMW. In 1 hour I had everything done. I am calling it an early night because I am not sure which direction I am going with this project. I have a couple calls into chemical strippers. I am debating (depends on cost) on having the car acid dipped to remove all the rubberized undercoating and paint. This would make for easier prep work for future welding and allow me to fully stitch weld the body seams. I know this if way overboard, but if I ever do decide to sell this car it will be a huge plus for the hardcore track junkie (plus I just like welding:buttrock). Anyways, here are the pics from tonights work.

Fair...you didn't tell me the car had such bad ass rotors!:D

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0734.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0733.jpg

She will no longer roll...:(

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0738.jpg

Good Luck on the project.

I have an E30 sitting in my garage in about the same condition as your E36.......stripped to a shell.

Every car should have an LS1, really...

Fair...you didn't tell me the car had such bad ass rotors!:D

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0734.jpg
Man, those rotors are MAD TITE!!!! :buttrock :D


Every car should have an LS1, really...
Ha! That's my signature on many forums, to the letter. :D I keep saying this so much people think I'm one of those crazy people that mutters to themselves. Then they ride in an E36 LS1. Then they start to mutter the same thing... :devillook

Just got done working on what is left of the car. I am trying to get all the wiring thinned out. I took a huge chunk of it out tonight (and even a couple that shouldn't have come out). I can't believe how much wiring an old low optioned 325 has in it. The only thing I am keeping is the headlights, tail lights, brake lights, turn signals, gages, ignition switch, and ABS. Just for the ABS there is a 55 wire connector going in the ABS computer. I hope this will all work when I get done!

I didn't take any pics before I started, but the first couple are over 1/2 way through.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0744.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0746.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0749.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0751.jpg

The pile I had at the end of the night:buttrock

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0750.jpg

Haha, I should have you come down and help me with thinning down the wiring when I'm at that point. I think I will be driving it with a heater for a while though. We'll see where I want to take the car after it's running.

Haha, I should have you come down and help me with thinning down the wiring when I'm at that point. I think I will be driving it with a heater for a while though. We'll see where I want to take the car after it's running.

We don't know if everything is going to work yet...you might now want my help:D.

looks like its gonna be a sick car, i love the LS1 swaps.....good luck! im deff. gonna be watching this

We don't know if everything is going to work yet...you might now want my help:D.
Well I guess we will see, you are working quicker than me! Today is painting the roll cage and if it dries quick enough, reinstalling the seats and harnesses. Then Saturday is brakes, stud kit, and swaybars. After that I'll have to start bothering Terry about kit parts :P. Oh and if you can find a way to clean the junk off the inside paint, let me know. I tried TIATO's way with brake cleaner, but it didn't do stuff, his was probably fresh though and that's why it worked.

I got the wiring harness as cleaned up as it is going to get for now. I pulled out the master cylinder, brake booster, abs pump, steering column, and seats so I could get the wiring harness out of the car. It looks like a mess! :help After I got that done I started gutting my driver door. I couldn't believe how much weight can be removed. The door feels like a feather. The last car I built was a turbo fox body Mustang. I gutted that thing to the max. When you closed that door it would rattle and make soooooo much noise. The gutted BMW door still sounds like a BMW when you shut it. No crazy rattling or anything...kinda nice!

Here is the final size of the pile of wires that came out. I don't have a scale, but bet it weighs 20+lbs.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0755.jpg

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Here is what is left of the wiring harness.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0756.jpg

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http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0758.jpg

Everything that was removed plus the glass.:eyecrazy

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0760.jpg

Wow this is pretty extreme! Are you trying to be super competitive in auto-x? XP class still has a minimum weight of like 2350ish for 5.7L with ABS.

Gahh.. What I would do with a car I didn't have to drive to work everyday.... :(

Wow this is pretty extreme! Are you trying to be super competitive in auto-x? XP class still has a minimum weight of like 2350ish for 5.7L with ABS.

At the moment no. I just think anything worth doing is worth overdoing! I still don't think that I will be under 2400lbs. I'm NOT planning on installing lexan for the remaining glass.

I've been busy the past couple days building a rotisserie for an E36 chassis. It turned out good, but needs hydraulics. I am not getting the car acid dipped due the the lack of someone semi-local to do it. I bought a MBX removing tool (the dealer I bought it from claimed that they make the Crud Thug for Snap-On), so I am going to give that a try for the seam sealer and undercoating. I hope to have it in next week. http://www.mbxit.com/

I built the rotisserie because I don't want to be under the car doing the whole time while I am removing the undercoating. Also it is a lot easier to weld when you're not upside down!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0761.jpg

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http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0765.jpg

thats awesome ^^^^

how'd you get it up there?

thats awesome ^^^^

how'd you get it up there?

Cherry picker (engine hoist)...same way I got the motor out.

Very nice work so far. How long did it take to make the rotiserie? I am making one for the Cabby in my signature but thought of making it out of wood for ease of building....

Very nice work so far. How long did it take to make the rotiserie? I am making one for the Cabby in my signature but thought of making it out of wood for ease of building....

About a day and a half of working on and off. I only have about $110 in it.

Great thread.

I will be watching this one.

That rotisserie is really cool.

Wow! I'm impressed. I saw that car sitting in the Vomo shop for quite a while so I'm glad to see progress getting done!

that rotisserie is awesome!

Nice job :)

Well today I had a lot of time to think (I didn't have to work...OKC was iced in). The more and more I thought about the hacked up wiring that car was going to have it just bothered me. I ordered a universal 12 circuit wiring harness off ebay and I am going to wire the whole car up correctly from the ground up with exactly what it needs.

Hacked up wiring on the BMW side or the GM side? You can use a portion of the e36 engine harness to make the GM wiring pretty much stock.

That rotisserie is awesome! I remember seeing one in a Ultima GTR build quite a long time ago.

Hey, spin it!

Hacked up wiring on the BMW side or the GM side? You can use a portion of the e36 engine harness to make the GM wiring pretty much stock.

On the BMW side. I don't have a great feeling about it working too well. If I start from scratch I know it will be good. I am going to use some of the wiring from the BMW engine to integrate the LS1. I will use the BMW connectors on everything so everything will be easily serviceable/removable.

Tonight I got the right side door gutted and the gas tank removed. I am ordering a 255lph pump tonight. It is crazy how much that passenger door affected the center of gravity on the rotisserie. After the glass was removed I had to re-center it. And after the motor and everything else was gone it need re-centered again!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0782.jpg

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http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0784.jpg

I saw that car sitting in the Vomo shop for quite a while so I'm glad to see progress getting done!Me too - tired of tripping over so many BMWs around here. :D

The rotisserrie is a nice touch. Does it rotate well, or do you need several people to help? Will it stay in a position other than 0 or 180°? Like, can you put the car 90° to the ground and lock it in place? Wondering if the width of the casters is sufficient. Might need to fab up somehting like this to make cage/chassis work easier.

Going for the full dip and strip, eh? That's devotion. I still think a full media blast is easier than dipping, but the "crud buster" tool you got should work wonders on removing the seam sealer. Saw that tool posted here a week ago and now I must have one. :cool I made myself not go down "machinery row" at the PRI show last week - I probably saved myself thousands on big tools I really don't need.

Here is the final size of the pile of wires that came out. I don't have a scale, but bet it weighs 20+lbs.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0755.jpg

Man, that car had a lot of wiring left in it! :eek: I had already pared it down considerably.

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/96366092-S.jpghttp://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/96364258-S.jpg
Aftermarket alarm wiring (the bane of all things automotive!) removed and repaired

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/96366358-S.jpghttp://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/96366246-S.jpg
Big trashcan full of wiring and asphalt insulation removed previously (79.4 pounds!)

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/99295289-S.jpghttp://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/97721414-S.jpg
Stereo + some rear wiring removed from the car previously.

That was before you went "buck wild" on the car, though. :D

The rotisserrie is a nice touch. Does it rotate well, or do you need several people to help? Will it stay in a position other than 0 or 180°? Like, can you put the car 90° to the ground and lock it in place? Wondering if the width of the casters is sufficient. Might need to fab up somehting like this to make cage/chassis work easier.

Going for the full dip and strip, eh? That's devotion. I still think a full media blast is easier than dipping, but the "crud buster" tool you got should work wonders on removing the seam sealer. Saw that tool posted here a week ago and now I must have one. :cool I made myself not go down "machinery row" at the PRI show last week - I probably saved myself thousands on big tools I really don't need.

It rotates good. Right now I have the car centered so the center of gravity is slightly below the piviot point. It still rotates fairly easy. When get ready to move it up I will adjust it accordingly so it is perfectly balanced.

I know what you mean about spending money on tools....In the past 4-5 months I have bought a Miller Syncrowave 250 tig welder, a Miller plasma cutter (got damaged in shipping and still have not got my claim money, Miller tig torch water cooler, a JD squared model 3 tubing bender and tubing notcher, a 80 gal air compressor, the crud thug thing, big drill press, and about a million smaller items. All said and done I will have about 1/2 of what I have in the car tied up in tools!:eyecrazy

I just got done working on removing undercoating. I do know a few things after about 3 hours of this. 1) IT SUCKS! 2) You couldn't pay me enough to do this under a car 3) It's keeping my 80 gallon air compressor busy 4) This MBX tool is bad ass! The rotisserie was worth every penny and then some. What I did get removed took 3+ hours. Although the MBX tool is great it is not as fast as I thought it would be. If I were to stop and sharpen the wheels as often as I should it might go faster....I'm trying that tomorrow night.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0785.jpg

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http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0797.jpg

:eatpop::eatpop:

Ouch on the tools. I have a Miller TIG and JD2 bender as well. Luckily my father in law gives me free use of his Hypertherm so I didn't have to buy a plasma cutter.

So awesome...

wow, way to do it right the first time!

Removing this stuff is slow! I was hoping it would go faster than this. I did the right side rear wheel well area tonight. The undercoating was every bit of 3/16" in most places, and some places more. I emptied my shop vac before I started, and am only vacuuming up the undercoating. When I am all done I will weigh it to see if all my time in this little project was worth it.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0798.jpg

Awesome project, cant wait to see the finished product. Please keep us posted with pics.

Wow.....all these work in ur own garage. Great effort.....can't wait to see this project done.

Just my daily update...I estimate that I am about 1/3 the way done with my undercoat removal.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0800.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0801.jpg

Shop Vac is starting to fill up with undercoating!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0799.jpg

Can you show us a picture of the tool you're using to remove the coating? Did you ever consider using a sandblaster with regular dry 'play sand' outside the garage? My friend has had great results removing rust and undercoatings with a portable sandblaster. They usually can be had for under $100.

Doug

Can you show us a picture of the tool you're using to remove the coating? Did you ever consider using a sandblaster with regular dry 'play sand' outside the garage? My friend has had great results removing rust and undercoatings with a portable sandblaster. They usually can be had for under $100.

Doug

I did highly consider sand blasting, but having it done by someone. I called 3 businesses here in town and they all said that sandblasting will not removing undercoating if it is in good shape.

On the second page I posted a link to the manufactures website for the MBX tool. Also, here are some pictures of to actual tool.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0802.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0803.jpg

Awesome. Didnt realize you were in OKC untill you said ice haha. I would love to come check out the car sometime! I live in Norman and work in OKC!

+1!!

Ouch. That's a mighty expensive tool for undercoating removal. I use a wire cup wheel on one of my 4" angle grinders when I do chassis prep. Works like a charm and only cost $17 for the wheel.

Good quality undercoat will stand up to sandblasting. By the time they use a hard enough media to get through the undercoat you risk damaging the parent metal.

The only other option is acid dipping which would also remove the primer and coatings in cavities and channels in the body you can't access. That's just asking for an insurmountable rust issue.

Awesome. Didnt realize you were in OKC untill you said ice haha. I would love to come check out the car sometime! I live in Norman and work in OKC!

+1!!

That's cool. Anybody that wants to see is more than welcome. Just PM me after the holidays. I live in Moore close to Roval Bavaria (I assume you know where that is). I shouldn't be too far away!

Ouch. That's a mighty expensive tool for undercoating removal. I use a wire cup wheel on one of my 4" angle grinders when I do chassis prep. Works like a charm and only cost $17 for the wheel.

Good quality undercoat will stand up to sandblasting. By the time they use a hard enough media to get through the undercoat you risk damaging the parent metal.

The only other option is acid dipping which would also remove the primer and coatings in cavities and channels in the body you can't access. That's just asking for an insurmountable rust issue.

It was expensive, but it works good. Only problem is that I am slowing down progress b/c I did not buy enough blasting belts for it. I am having to use one longer that I want and it is becoming less effictive. You can install the belt on backwards and sharpening it against a coarse stone, but that doesn't help the bristles that already flew off.

A cup wheel...I think I know what you mean, but I have never seen those with larger diameter bristles. I did buy a 4" cable twist wheel for my angle grinder yesterday. I am going to use it for my final welding prep (hopefully it works like I want it to).

I didn't work on the car today. I did get a lot of work done yesterday. I am about 90% done with the all the area in front of the firewall. Today I was busy getting my welding equipment/area setup. Up until now on this project I have just been using my arc welder and welding on the floor. I am about to start the rear subframe modifications for the new differential, so I needed my tig welder and a good table. I went to the scrap metal yard and found a 2.5' x 5' sheet of steel that is 5/8" thick. I didn't think too much of its weight. I found some steel for the legs and got the guys to load it in my truck. I drove on the scales (we weighed my truck before hand) and I got my ticked. I about fell over when I saw the weight!!! It said 400 lbs.:eyecrazy I thought they were trying to rip me off until I did the math and realized that sheet (or slab?...I don't know what's it called when it's that thick) weighed around 335lbs!!! So I have myself a 400lb welding table.:buttrock I am just waiting on 2 fittings on the water cooler for the tig torch (the ass the sold it to me changed them and didn't bother to tell me). The first thing I will do is the front subframe reinforcements...practice with that...it's been almost 2 years since I sold my last tig welder.:D

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0809.jpg

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Why wait for fittings? Fire that bugger up and start welding. You don't need a cooled torch to weld that thin stuff. :D

Why wait for fittings? Fire that bugger up and start welding. You don't need a cooled torch to weld that thin stuff. :D

I tried that with my last tig torch when my cooler started leaking. I melted every o-ring in torch (for the water). When I got the cooler fixed I found the new problem...a leaky tig torch.

Definitely going to be following this build. Can't wait to see what you turn that thing into :D

I tried that with my last tig torch when my cooler started leaking. I melted every o-ring in torch (for the water). When I got the cooler fixed I found the new problem...a leaky tig torch.


Yeah water cooler torches don't last long with out coolant. I think he meant use an air cooled torch for now...

Got the front subframe reinforced tonight. It was a small project, but I realized that my tig welding skills have dropped of in the last 2 years. It didn't help that in my infinite wisdom that I forgot to buy filler rod, so I used small coated wire instead. CONTAMINATION! I will pick some filler rod up tomorrow and hopefully be on the right track for the rear subframe modification.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0811.jpg

Yeah, figured if you had to buy all the cooling goodies you had a standard torch.

Yeah, figured if you had to buy all the cooling goodies you had a standard torch.

Nope, never owned a standard air cooled torch. 99% of the welding I use to do when I owned my welding/fabrication business was aluminum. Water cooled torches are a must!

Nope, never owned a standard air cooled torch. 99% of the welding I use to do when I owned my welding/fabrication business was aluminum. Water cooled torches are a must!

Wow, never met anyone that hasn't had an air cooled unit. You would be surprised at how well they work. At 200 amps or less there are few times when water cooled is really necessary.

Nice work on the undercoating, that stuff is a PITA.

Cool! Another OKC swap project. Love to check out your work sometime and compare notes... :D

Cool! Another OKC swap project. Love to check out your work sometime and compare notes... :D

That's cool...Like I said in a previous post anyone is welcome to see it. Just PM me. It's nothing too special...I'm just doing it the best I know how.

On another note...I went by and picked some filler rods for welding. I also picked up some aluminum filler rods too. That's for something I have in mind for the front end suspension.:D

Nice project. You got another subscriber. :D

Nice project. You got another subscriber. :D

+1

+1


+2

Sweet project! Cant wait to see the progress!

That's cool. Anybody that wants to see is more than welcome. Just PM me after the holidays. I live in Moore close to Roval Bavaria (I assume you know where that is). I shouldn't be too far away!

i know exactly where its at, if you ever see a dakar M in moore, norman, s okc. give a wave 98% of the time its me.

Very cool thread, thanks for the detailed write-ups and pictures!
I have been thinking about doing a similar project at some point and this is a great reference.

Good choice on the 8.8 Ford IRS unit, I have the same one in my FFR '65 Cobra replica. I just love the fact that you can find gears for ~$150 and a Torsen LSD is ~$550. It should hold pretty much all the power you could run through it. The only thing that the >500 RWHP Mustang Cobra guys add is maybe a cover brace.

Please keep posting!

subscribed!

i know exactly where its at, if you ever see a dakar M in moore, norman, s okc. give a wave 98% of the time its me.

I've probably seen you driving 2-3 times. Do you work/park off of 35 around 240 ?

I finally got back in town tonight. I had a couple hours to work on the car, so I worked on removing more undercoating. I hope to wrap the undercoating removal up in a week or so.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0821.jpg

I have know about a couple areas that need some attention due to damage. I was able to remove most of the undercoating in the major area and see what needs to be done. If it were just a dent in a non-structural area I wouldn't worry about it, but it is right behind where the lollie pop sits for the front control arm. The metal pulled away from the main support area. It doesn't look too bad, but since I can't get to the area from inside (it isn't the floor pan that's damaged) I will have to pull the dent out. I've never had to do that, so looks like I will be learning something new. It looks like this car has had a rough life!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0815.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0818.jpg

Subscribed! This is one of the threads that make BFC great!

amazing work, and much props for going so in depth with it, your getting alot of detail that most would over look still in the early and quite important stages. love the great pics

wow i wouldnt know where to start... but defiantly gonna use this thread for reference when i start on my e30 project....


Oklahoma ftw .... i use to live in Edmond

Very nice build! I cannot wait to see this evolve. When are you trying to have it completed by?

I started the morning working on the undercoating. About 2 hours in I couldn't take the repetition, so I started working on the Cobra differential. I started by buying a second subframe so I always have a differential/subframe to get measurements from during the mock up. I first had to cut the mounting points off the Corba diff. That wasn't enough so I had to trim even more off the differential mounting reinforcements. After each cut/trim I would fit the differential to see how it was looking. I had to trim some off the rear of the diff too.

What I started with:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0730.jpg


Modifications:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0822.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0823.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0824.jpg

I also had to cut the front mounting point off the subframe. The front of the Corba diff is much larger.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0827.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0826.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0825.jpg


I roughly marked the axle centerline (+/- 1/8") and set the Cobra differential in place. Everything is VERY close. There is probably a 50% chance that I will be modifying the subframe around the differential pinion either on top or on bottom.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0829.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0830.jpg


The next couple pics are comparisons of the stock vs. the Cobra unit.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0831.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0832.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0828.jpg

Very nice build! I cannot wait to see this evolve. When are you trying to have it completed by?

As soon as possible...realistically due to my work schedule getting hectic after the first of the year...maybe early summer.

Ok, so now you have to weld mounts onto the diff to bolt it into the subframe? What do you plan on using for your axles?

Doug

Leave the final welding of the diff case mounting ears until you have set your engine/tranny in place ... then you can match-up differential pinion angle to installed engine angle so that the driveshaft u-joint angles match. Anything over 1deg mis-match may cause driveshaft vibration.

very nice, it's good to see another large scale BMW project in OK. there's several other big BMW guys in OKC including iflytii, TeamFMS, and a few others. you can really strip more weight out of the doors, unless you're required to have outside latches.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/jmitro2000/IMG_0055.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/jmitro2000/IMG_0053.jpg

Also, don't forget to reinforce the rear sway bar mounting brackets while you're back there welding. i bought the reinforcements off Turner, same place i got the front and rear subframe reinforcements.

Ok, so now you have to weld mounts onto the diff to bolt it into the subframe? What do you plan on using for your axles?
Doug

I have contacted the Driveshaft Shop. They can make them, but I just have to get them the lengths. I am waiting until I get the mounts done so I don't waste time and money redoing the axle if something weird happens. I am getting the stock M3 outters from Ulysses. He actually has them sitting at the Driveshaft Shop. It all worked out nice.

Leave the final welding of the diff case mounting ears until you have set your engine/tranny in place ... then you can match-up differential pinion angle to installed engine angle so that the driveshaft u-joint angles match. Anything over 1deg mis-match may cause driveshaft vibration.

That's a good point. I didn't think of that. I was just going to duplicate the stock angle. The differential is so tight in the subframe I don't know how much adjustment I am going to have.

very nice, it's good to see another large scale BMW project in OK. there's several other big BMW guys in OKC including iflytii, TeamFMS, and a few others. you can really strip more weight out of the doors, unless you're required to have outside latches.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/jmitro2000/IMG_0055.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/jmitro2000/IMG_0053.jpg

Also, don't forget to reinforce the rear sway bar mounting brackets while you're back there welding. i bought the reinforcements off Turner, same place i got the front and rear subframe reinforcements.

What holds those doors shut? I already purchased the whole Turner reinforcement kit. I'll weld those on when I stich weld the chassis.

What holds those doors shut?

i used aluminum hood pins bolted to the chassis to hold the doors on. much lighter than the stock latch mechanism. i have a sedan, so three of the four doors have the hood pins. only the driver's door has the stock latch with inner and outer latch release handles. if i can find a lighter latch that uses the stock outer handle, i'll use it. the stock latch is pretty heavy.

Awesome build, I like your attention to detail so far. Should be a fun and fast car when your done. I look forward to watching the progress.

I spent another 3 hours on undercoating removal last night. The only place I have left is the right rear wheel well and just in front of it. I will also have to go back and touch up some seams before I stitch weld them. It finally look like I an getting close to being done. I also dried out my spot weld drill bit by removing the ABS pump brackets. It worked, but I am really less that impressed. The main complaint is that it took too long to drill out. I should have got the kind that Snap-on sells. Theirs look less like a bit, and more like a small hole saw.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0842.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0841.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0838.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0836.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0833.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0839.jpg

Looks good man. A lot of work went into that portion.

Doug

any idea how much all that undercoating weighed?

any idea how much all that undercoating weighed?

Not yet. I cleaned my garage and emptied my shop vac before I started the undercoating removal. I have been vacuuming up all the rubber and intend to weigh it when I am done. I am trying to keep track stuff like that for the rest of the board. I'll let you know as soon as I know...I am curious myself!

Do you think an air powered needle scaler would have taken that off?

Doug

dude my uncle just sold me a 325is it has a knockin sound in the engine so im using a lukas oil and i got a hole in the muffler im new with this bimmer stuff and from what im sein in this webpage im stayin bimmer what should i do next

I had my Christmas a little late this year, but man was it worth the wait!:buttrock These 4200's just came UPS and I have to show them off. I'm impressed with the craftsmanship, but that was to be expected from what I read. I really can't wait to see how they preform! As far as springs, I took Fair's advice and went with 150/90 (503 lbs/in) in front and 140/110 (615 lbs/in) out back. I got the 80mm studs and Goodridge SS brake lines also.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0843.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0846.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0844.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0847.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0845.jpg

Do you think an air powered needle scaler would have taken that off?

Doug

I really don't think so. I think it has the same problem that sandblasting has...the rubber (undercoating) absorbs the impact and does little to no removing. Not to say it wouldn't work well in some areas where the undercoating is thin, but for the whole car...no. The undercoating in the wheel wells is 3/16"+ in some places.

I also got a couple different types of wire wheels for my 4.5" angle grinder to try them out. They work, but not quite as well as the MBX tool. The problem with them is that the grinder spins at 10,000+ rpm. That is fast enough to heat up the undercoating and make it semi-gooey, as well as it starts smoking. I am using that to get the few places that I can't get to with the MBX tool. I think if I did a whole car with the angle grinder that I would have serious health problems from the smoke fumes in my non-vented garage.:smoke3 :nono The MBX only spins 3,500 rpm or so with 90 psi...I don't know what it spins with 180psi.:devillook

Awesome write ups, cant wait to see the final product

Awesome build so far,

I was wondering if you still had the M50 motor you pulled out of that for sale? let me know, im interested. Email me at brohr01@gmail.com

Thanks,
Bryan

I finally had one of those day where you got something accomplished! I got the rest of the undercoating removed and started stitch welding the chassis and welding in the rear subframe reinforcements. The stitch welding went as I expected...had a little trouble with small amount of undercoating that was buried between the seams. Some of the welds were slightly contaminated and others were perfect. I kinda figured that it would be like that...that's the reason I wanted to get the car acid dipped in the first place. All-in-all I couldn't be happier with the way it's going. I got a large chunk of the underside done tonight. Tomorrow I will have the underside wrapped up. Here are the pictures of the stitch welded seams.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0867.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0868.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0869.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0870.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0871.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0873.jpg

Reinforced RTAB's area.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0875.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0877.jpg


Here is the right rear Turner subframe reinforcements being installed.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0859.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0860.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0861.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0862.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0863.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0864.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0865.jpg

nice

Just wrapping up my work for today. I finished stitch welding the underside of the chassis today as well as stitch welding the front strut towers/front frame area. I also got the last of the rear subframe reinforcements welded in. Just to kinda keep track of weight added/removed...I used a little over 2lbs of wire stitch welding.

I think my next project is getting this thing rolling again. I am going to order a bunch of suspension parts tonight, so hopefully I will have them in about a week or so.

Anyway, here's how it looks now.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0880.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0881.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0882.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0883.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0884.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0887.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0888.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0889.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0890.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0891.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0892.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0893.jpg

Man you're going hog wild, huh? :) Looks good man.

Doug

What kind of welder are you using?

What kind of welder are you using?

I just borrowed the little 115V Lincoln Mig 135 from where I work. I'm using .025" solid core wire and Gold Gas (%75 Argon %25 CO2) as the shielding gas.

Hey,
Great work! I am a few steps behind you on a similar project. I just got done cleaning up all of the residue from my sound deadening today using this stuff called "goo-off" from home depot, it worked VERY well a few swipes and it was gone.

Your rotisserie looks very, very nice. I hope to make some phone calls this week about obtaining square-stock to get mine started. My friend races rally cars and we build one for his car and it is so neat to work with.

Glad to see someone putting as much time into the chassis as you are, keep up the good work!!!

Here is my project page, I give you a lot of credit for all of the photo's, I have a hard time stopping and grabbing my camera.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=864450

thanks
Josh

wow. this car is going to be amazing. subscribed.:cool

Progress is looking good!

As a newbie to unibody frame construction, can somebody please explain what exactely the stitch welding is done for?

Thanks,
Lukas

Progress is looking good!

As a newbie to unibody frame construction, can somebody please explain what exactely the stitch welding is done for?

Thanks,
Lukas

Stitch welding will act as a chassis stiffener. Combine this with a good roll cage and now the frame is tied into the body, and in effect, the car should be more responsive and safer on the road.

Doug

Didn't do too much tonight. I removed a few brackets and unnecessary pieces from the engine bay. Some were skillfully removed like a surgeon and other pieces were bludgeoned until they gave up and fell off...frustration sets in after a while.:mad I also got the windshield wiper assembly removed.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0895.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0896.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0897.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0898.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0899.jpg

incredible work. I can't even begin to think about how much time and effort went into this car already. Keep it up!
subscribed.

wow very impressive diy, keep up the good work. :D

Makes me want to sell the kids and buy some (more) tools-subscribed!

nice work, i m just starting to gather my parts for my LS1 swap
Are you using the whole Corbra rear end or just the differential

Makes me want to sell the kids and buy some (more) tools-subscribed!

:lol:lol


nice work, i m just starting to gather my parts for my LS1 swap
Are you using the whole Corbra rear end or just the differential

Just the differential.

I just opened the box that some more parts that came in. They are the E30 M3 control arms. They are light!!! I was happy for about 2 seconds until I got looking them over. One has a small hole in the rubber dust seal. I am going to call them tomorrow and see where to ship it to get a new one. Sucks, but what are you going to do...just wait another week and a half.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0900.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0901.jpg

Doesn't it figure? Pain in the arse...

Doug

Tonights work: Just one bracket/mount removed tonight. Came out of the left rear trunk area. I think all it did was supply the mounts for the muffler. Big piece of steel just for that...that stock muffler is heavy though!!!

I think with in the next week I am going to finish the last couple stitch welds in the front (I can access them since I removed a couple brackets), and see what it's going to take to get that dented/crushed spot straitened out behind the front control arm mount. After that I'll try and get the underside painted.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0903.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0904.jpg

Great work!

Im going to be scrapping the unnecessary sheet metal in the engine trunk as well. I also want to get some of those little things in the upper rear speaker deck removed, all of that should add up to 20 pounds if I got hunting for stuff to be removed.

Great work!

Im going to be scrapping the unnecessary sheet metal in the engine trunk as well. I also want to get some of those little things in the upper rear speaker deck removed, all of that should add up to 20 pounds if I got hunting for stuff to be removed.

That's something I have been researching for the past 30min+...what others have done with the rear speaker deck. I want to remove it or trim it down. I can't find a good answer as to how structural it actually is. I have also read the SCCA XP rules a couple times. I'm thinking that it is not allowed to remove/trim it. SCCA XP does allow the rear trunk floor to be removed, but you have to have something to separate the passenger compartment. I don't know.

i've asked the same question of several engineers/cage builders on this forum, and mostly the response i get is the rear parcel tray is structural so leave it in. especially without a cage you should leave it in. i can't give you any hard data, though.

you could swiss cheese it if that's allowed and flare the holes for rigidity

That's something I have been researching for the past 30min+...what others have done with the rear speaker deck. I want to remove it or trim it down. I can't find a good answer as to how structural it actually is. I have also read the SCCA XP rules a couple times. I'm thinking that it is not allowed to remove/trim it. SCCA XP does allow the rear trunk floor to be removed, but you have to have something to separate the passenger compartment. I don't know.
Yea, we've never gotten a 100% clear Prepared SCCA ruling on the E36 upper rear speaker shelf, but I have had some SEB members comment as much: "leave it in there to avoid protest hassles" as well as "replace it with like materials if its been removed". I've looked at it at length and its "semi-structural" at best, according to my engineering background SWAG. :stickoutt I've seen these removed/gutted/destroyed by rear deck stereo speaker installations on several cars that were later raced, however, and there weren't signs of weakness/failure in surrounding areas. Can't amount to much more than 5-8 pounds. Just leave it, or better yet - cut it out (I can't remember if the one in your car has already been mauled by a stereo hack, like so many of these cars) and replace it with similar gauge flat or bent/flanged steel sheet.

http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/97721739-M.jpg
Just found this pic of your car - yep, the rear deck is hacked up already (damn speaker pimps :mad)

As for the trunk floor, I've eyed the right rear battery well area for removal due to the compete lack of muffler space on that side. To run real dual exhausts in 3" or bigger for a V8 car (and this is arguably "not necessary" until you are near 500 whp or more - a whole other discussion) the routing would require the removal of the stock fuel tank if you wanted any sort of ground clearance - but the stock tank works fairly well in that very low mounting location and with a dual pick-up modification. A more rear biased but higher mounted fuel cell is less optimal for CG height, but dual sump stock plastic fuel tank really cramps rear exhaust routing. Our single 3" exhaust pipe near the tank is snug and its heat shield wrapped. The 3.5" exhaust going on the Beta car this week is going to be tighter still.

http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/97721414-S.jpg http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/97721822-S.jpg
LEFT: Left rear E36 trunk floor (with the muffler brace you now removed) / RIGHT: Right rear E36 trunk floor

The rest of the trunk floor... well, I wouldn't mess with that until you go to a fuel cell. There's suspension and subframe mounting points throughout the middle of the trunk (under shock towers and forward) and the curved spare tire well probably adds a tiny bit of rigidity back there as well. That area could be removed for a larger fuel cell at some point, of course. What I want to do is remove the battery well, then "box in" the frame rail stub with sheet metal on the right side to more match the left. That should make for a nice enclosed area inside for a 10-12 gallon fuel cell plus a nice bumped up area to house a second muffler. Worried about sound regs getting tighter at some of these new country club tracks.

http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/96843150-M.jpg

You will want to make a somewhat sealed metal bulkhead (rear firewall) to cover the opening to the passenger compartment left by the rear seat removal. I'm thinking aluminum sheet, could even be fairly thin (at least .060" thick or more - check the SCCA GCR for recommendations). Some cage designs have the rear bars going through this opening but if you think about the load paths and where you want rear downbars to "land" you will probably have those pass through the outer sections of the rear sheet metal and hit the chassis outboard of the shock mounts + tie all of those sheet metal areas together with plate.

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/187214427-M.jpg

I can show you examples of both styles of rear downbar mounting, and even though its done what I feel to be "the wrong way" (landed onto the crossbar between shock towers, or better still, landed back at the bumper where zero suspension loads are coming from) often, doesn't mean you should just follow the herd. :stickoutt Do some research, look at a lot of examples, TALK TO SANCTIONING BODY TECH/CAGE INSPECTORS, and use some common sense.

There's so many "cage experts" on this forum though, no matter what you do (and no matter how well the tech inspectors like it) you won't please many of the "keyboard cowboys". And that matters about this >< much. :D I don't argue cage design on this forum as its about as productive as arguing chaos theory with a desk lamp. There's also many different ways to make a cage that is safe/effective/structurally sound/legal and passes tech (the guidelines are fairly basic for most racing groups), and if you plan on not doing any Wheel2Wheel (TT + Solo?), your cage requirements are then completely different from what a W2W cage would be (but W2W advocates don't care - do it their way anyway!). Be careful who you listen to for advice - as we all know, there's a ton of junk advice from inexperienced know-nothings on the interwebs. Usually the "higher the post count the less they know". ;) Not talking about anyone that has posted in this thread. And don't think the way we do cages is the end-all example either (ha!), we just post better pics and have a gifted fabricator doing flawless welding/fit-up (and the cage pics we've posted have not been from W2W cars) and don't believe in "throwing a bunch of tubes at it".

Also, you don't need a cage at all if you only plan on doing Solo in the car, and no HPDE/TT events. Its even optional for HPDE/TT, and the added weight of a cage sure won't help an XP class entry much. But since you got a JD2 bender a 1-3/4" dies I assume you are doing a cage anyways, and that's probably smart if you start to cut up the car much for getting weight out.

When you listen to the "keyboard cowboy" internet cage experts they will have you adding bars on top of bars, gussets on top of gussets, and you end up with this:

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/239633317-M.jpg

:D:D

"Speaker pimps" eh? I take offense to that :P I hope that drilling a few tiny holes in the rear deck to mount a new amp and power a new stereo where all the speakers actually WORK does not qualify me as a speaker pimp :) The sad part is with my car, I think this is the 2nd time the trunk has been raped..

Wow, nice welds above ... :lol

Was the welder blind? BTW, a 1/8" fillet of E70xx will take 1000lbs per inch of weld with a safety factor of 5 -- the weld material is stronger than the DOM tubing of the cage or the sheet metal of the car (except for HSLA details in the unibody)

They got good penetration on those welds! Nuts!

Doug

Those weld joints look like something that came out of a caulking gun! "A little primer and no one will know the difference"

When you listen to the "keyboard cowboy" internet cage experts they will have you adding bars on top of bars, gussets on top of gussets, and you end up with this:

:D:D

WOW! I'm all about DIY but that guy needed to put the welder down and walk away! :D

"Speaker pimps" eh? I take offense to that :P I hope that drilling a few tiny holes in the rear deck to mount a new amp and power a new stereo where all the speakers actually WORK does not qualify me as a speaker pimp :) The sad part is with my car, I think this is the 2nd time the trunk has been raped..

Nah, its the guys that open up the rear deck speaker holes with a chainsaw that hack me off. The rear deck on this car (and other's we've seen) was positively butchered! :shifty

Hey,
nice progress.
Any word on how much the undercoating weighed? I think Im going to order a tank of liquid nitrogen for next weekend. Ill take some photo's and let you know how it goes.

I just read somewhere you can get the chassis down to 500 and some pounds bare, so Im going to try and get that thing as light as possible! Its hard to believe you add 2000 pounds of stuff to it :( Stupid cast iron blocks.

Josh

There's so many "cage experts" on this forum though, no matter what you do (and no matter how well the tech inspectors like it) you won't please many of the "keyboard cowboys". And that matters about this >< much. :D I don't argue cage design on this forum as its about as productive as arguing chaos theory with a desk lamp. There's also many different ways to make a cage that is safe/effective/structurally sound/legal and passes tech (the guidelines are fairly basic for most racing groups), and if you plan on not doing any Wheel2Wheel (TT + Solo?), your cage requirements are then completely different from what a W2W cage would be (but W2W advocates don't care - do it their way anyway!). Be careful who you listen to for advice - as we all know, there's a ton of junk advice from inexperienced know-nothings on the interwebs. Usually the "higher the post count the less they know". ;) Not talking about anyone that has posted in this thread. And don't think the way we do cages is the end-all example either (ha!), we just post better pics and have a gifted fabricator doing flawless welding/fit-up (and the cage pics we've posted have not been from W2W cars) and don't believe in "throwing a bunch of tubes at it".

Also, you don't need a cage at all if you only plan on doing Solo in the car, and no HPDE/TT events. Its even optional for HPDE/TT, and the added weight of a cage sure won't help an XP class entry much. But since you got a JD2 bender a 1-3/4" dies I assume you are doing a cage anyways, and that's probably smart if you start to cut up the car much for getting weight out.

I've noticed that. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry seems to be an expert. I have found dozens of pics of E36/E46 cages and some in other makes. I am going design and build what I think will work best using my engineering background (some experts think that 4 years of Mechanical Engineering don't count for anything...you know what I mean Terry;)) and be happy with it. I have 3 goals in my cage; 1) make the structure more rigid 2) make it safe for me and 3) be somewhat minimalistic with the cage itself w/o compromising the first two goals. I am thinking about not posting pics of the cage progress itself, and them posting them all when I am done with it. I just don't want it hear "It would be better if..." or "I have this friend who knows this guy and he said (insert stupid comment) about cages..." or stuff like that. With that said there are valid feedback points that I would like to get. For instance, if my cage design was not in compliance with some classes of racing. That's enough out of me...I got of on a tangent there.

tangent/

Yea, post cage pictures at your own peril! Even James Clay of Bimmerwolrd was getting dogged by the self proclaimed cage experts today, and they've built dozens of caged BMWs at their shop. Just don't worry about the free advice offered here. :D Its comical - after speaking with a tech inspector for one major race group, the keyboard cowboys that post their advice on every cage picture in this forum (yet have never joined two pieces of metal themselves) even have special funny names - they are famous, but not in a good way. :D

If you ever plan on any W2W stuff, just do the basics set forth by SCCA or NASA (BMWCCA won't let a non-BMW powered BMW race with them, so forget those rules) cage rules. They are all easy to find in PDF format. But W2W is an order of magnitude more expensive to do than Solo, and some don't care for the added hassles, time commitment, risk, or expense. There's nothing wrong with building the car only to do Solo competition.

NASA seems like the group most open to "these types of cars", with respect to hybrids/engine swaps, and they even gave me an official "base class ruling" for an E36 BMW with a Camaro/Firebird LS1/T56 drivetrain ("TTB/PTB") for Time Trial (http://www.nasa-tt.com/) (Time Attack style competition lapping event) and Performance Touring (http://www.nasaproracing.com/news/2006/Performance-Touring.html) (W2W) when I inquired. We're gonna try to run an event with NASA at MSR-Houston next month, if we can wrap up some loose ends on our Alpha car. Haven't even touched that car in a month, with all of the other projects we have going... shipping several of the first LS1 E36 kits this week, among 100 other things.

/tangent

cmonnnn, whats the undercoating weigh?!?!

you're killing me!

cmonnnn, whats the undercoating weigh?!?!

you're killing me!

I was going to wait until I removed the seam sealer from the inside before I weighed it. If it is really killing you I will try and weight it soon!

cmonnnn, whats the undercoating weigh?!?!

you're killing me!

Barry Battle of RRT posted some numbers today in a thread in the Track/Auto-x section. Look for the James Clay IP build thread (red E36 that was painted white and is being built for BMWCCA IP class). I think after they baked then acid dipped a car RRT noted a ~60 pound loss, but that was a tick more extensive than what M3Muscle has done (and the bake + acid dip costs a lot of money to have done).

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=908056 - post # 75

The bare shell weighed 620 lbs with seam sealer, sound deadening, and undercoating. It weighed 560 lbs after baking. Pretty significant. Biggest thing is fabrication, it is 100 times easier and the welds are much much better.

Barry
The sound deadening is going to be a lot of that weight - its the tar paper stuff thats fairly easy to get out with some heat and muscle.

sexy

doublepost!

nice progress. have you already sourced the ls1 and t56?

Barry Battle of RRT posted some numbers today in a thread in the Track/Auto-x section. Look for the James Clay IP build thread (red E36 that was painted white and is being built for BMWCCA IP class). I think after they baked then acid dipped a car RRT noted a ~60 pound loss, but that was a tick more extensive than what M3Muscle has done (and the bake + acid dip costs a lot of money to have done).

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=908056 - post # 75


The sound deadening is going to be a lot of that weight - its the tar paper stuff thats fairly easy to get out with some heat and muscle.


In a thread on their webside (or somewhere else I read about that car) they gain back about 15-20 lbs in paint for the whole car.

nice progress. have you already sourced the ls1 and t56?

No, I have had 2 deals lined up, but they keep falling through...the guys flake out on me. I don't know what gives. If it happens much more I think I buy a salvage F-body yank the motor and tranny then part the rest out.

Barry Battle of RRT posted some numbers today in a thread in the Track/Auto-x section. Look for the James Clay IP build thread (red E36 that was painted white and is being built for BMWCCA IP class). I think after they baked then acid dipped a car RRT noted a ~60 pound loss, but that was a tick more extensive than what M3Muscle has done (and the bake + acid dip costs a lot of money to have done).

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=908056 - post # 75


The sound deadening is going to be a lot of that weight - its the tar paper stuff thats fairly easy to get out with some heat and muscle.


Hey

I read that thread too, I cant believe that we add about 2000 pounds of crap to the car! I have my sound deadening removed, Im going for the liquid nitrogen for the undercoating, that is 200$ versus the $1400 I was quoted for acid dipping :(

M3Muscle - Took this pic of the JD2 tubing notcher at DP tonight:

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/242047099-S.jpg http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/242047286-S.jpg

Doesn't look too intimidating in this picture but in person its one big, badass tool. That thing is freagin heavy duty, and it just rockets through DOM tubing. The clamping system is pretty slick - its easy to set-up for all sorts of sizes and angles with those quick release pin clamps. I've used cheap tubing notchers in the past, but the JD2 is in a league all its own. You'll be glad you got this thing when yours shows up. :cool

Speaking of cool pics from DP, how about a Viper TT making 1320 whp? That's the first car Taylor tested out his brand new DynoJet 224xLC at Dallas Performance with today! A street car, of course. A/C, drives it daily.

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/242046255-S-1.jpg http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/242046711-S.jpg

Totally. Nuts.

M3Muscle - Took this pic of the JD2 tubing notcher at DP tonight:

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/242047099-S.jpg http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/242047286-S.jpg

Doesn't look too intimidating in this picture but in person its one big, badass tool. That thing is freagin heavy duty, and it just rockets through DOM tubing. The clamping system is pretty slick - its easy to set-up for all sorts of sizes and angles with those quick release pin clamps. I've used cheap tubing notchers in the past, but the JD2 is in a league all its own. You'll be glad you got this thing when yours shows up. :cool

If that's what I am thinking about it is the model above what I ordered.

awesome build... tons of labor and love is going into this car! i cant wait to see it when its done

sweet ride

If it happens much more I think I buy a salvage F-body yank the motor and tranny then part the rest out.

do it, thats what I did to get my LS2/T56. I just kept my eyes peeled for a lightly wrecked 05/06 GTO and ended up finding one for a decent price and I actually found it 2 weeks before I even found my BMW. I guess you can say I did things in reverse orders, but when the deals come up, you gotta pounce on them

do it, thats what I did to get my LS2/T56. I just kept my eyes peeled for a lightly wrecked 05/06 GTO and ended up finding one for a decent price and I actually found it 2 weeks before I even found my BMW. I guess you can say I did things in reverse orders, but when the deals come up, you gotta pounce on them

How much did the LS2/T56 end up costing you?

I've been out of town for a couple days. When I got home the UPS man had stuff waiting for me. They are the Turner Motorsports rear lower control arm w/ rod end, spherical RTAB's, and spherical rear inner upper control arm bushings.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0905.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0906.jpg

Wow, can't wait to see the finished product.

Don't you think the noise and ride quality are going to suffer going with parts like those?

Doug

something tells me he's not concerned about noise or ride quality in this car ;)

there's four control arm bushings per side....are you going to do all of them? what about the front control arm bushings?

something tells me he's not concerned about noise or ride quality in this car ;)

there's four control arm bushings per side....are you going to do all of them? what about the front control arm bushings?

I can understand building a track car with poly bushings, but going with sperical bearings like those offer zero flex at all. The ride quality is going to be bone jarring to the point where he may feel in the end it just wasn't worth it.

Doug

How much did the LS2/T56 end up costing you?

not 100% sure yet, I still have a ton of parts left to sell off the GTO, Ive only sold 10 parts off of it and have recovered $1,223.68 so far, but Im hoping to get the cost of the LS2/T56 to around $6000. Im also keeping the ECM, Gauge Cluster, Rear Diff, Clutch/Brake/Gas pedal assembly, Brakes and a handfull of other parts too, so in the end Ill probably get the engine/trans/ecm for about $1500 under market value and have a ton of extra parts to play with as well.

Don't you think the noise and ride quality are going to suffer going with parts like those?

Doug

Yes, it will. The farther I get into this project the more I realize that I want more or a race car then a street beast. Think about the rest of the build...no door window, no heat/ac, removing all sound insulation, etc. It is the last of my worries as this will not see enough street miles to matter.


something tells me he's not concerned about noise or ride quality in this car ;)

there's four control arm bushings per side....are you going to do all of them? what about the front control arm bushings?

Exactly. There are four bushings per side. You the upper inner are TMS, the lower inner on the lower TMS control arm, and I have a set of M3 trailing arms to put on this. The M3 have spherical spherical bearings from the factory on the outer bushing. They might be somewhat insulated or cushoned, but they are not a normal rubber bushing. I have an old one I will take pics of it torn apart. I have the Bimmerworld spherical control arm bushing on order. I am pretty sure that everyting in the suspension will be spherical and the rear subframe mounts is the urethane race compound.


I can understand building a track car with poly bushings, but going with sperical bearings like those offer zero flex at all. The ride quality is going to be bone jarring to the point where he may feel in the end it just wasn't worth it.

Doug

I have done a lot of research on the whole bushing issue on BF's and also talked to Vorshlag and RRT. Everyone is in agreement about what to run on bushings that need multi-axis movement (LCAB's and RTAB's). Option 1) Stock rubber with limiters (not available on LCAB's). Option 2) Spherical. I won't get into it as there are MANY other discussions about this on BF's, but the urethane and delrin compounds don't allow the multi-axis movement as freely as needed. In return you could be damaging other components (RTAB buckets, etc.) That was my thought process in the whole matter. With that said, I do have a set of urethane LCAB's and RTAB's on my M3. Handles good, but one rough riding SOB (for a semi-daily driver). If I were to do it again I would most likely go back with stock bushings.

It sounds like you've researched the options pretty well. Whatever you do, it's going to be one sick car! :)

Doug

Exactly. There are four bushings per side. You the upper inner are TMS, the lower inner on the lower TMS control arm, and I have a set of M3 trailing arms to put on this. The M3 have spherical spherical bearings from the factory on the outer bushing. They might be somewhat insulated or cushoned, but they are not a normal rubber bushing. I have an old one I will take pics of it torn apart. I have the Bimmerworld spherical control arm bushing on order. I am pretty sure that everyting in the suspension will be spherical and the rear subframe mounts is the urethane race compound.


cool. i went with all spherical bushings including aluminum subframe bushings and motor/tranny mounts. got everything from Bimmerworld. only exception is the outer lower rear control arm bushings which are stock.....that's what BW said they use on their racecars without problems.

come out to Hallett when you get the car finished....Bob, Kyle, and I race COMMA out there and should be out there at various times this year.

I just did this out of curiosity. I took an extra rear outer M3 ball joint and took the dust seal off to see what it actually was. It is defiantly spherical, but not a metal-to-metal spherical. The outer liner is some kind of plastic. They are s lot less ($$) than the spherical that BW and TMS sells. I think I paid $40 give or take. Here are the pics for future reference.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0907.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0908.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0909.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0910.jpg

interesting, thanks for the pics

cool. i went with all spherical bushings including aluminum subframe bushings and motor/tranny mounts. got everything from Bimmerworld. only exception is the outer lower rear control arm bushings which are stock.....that's what BW said they use on their racecars without problems.

come out to Hallett when you get the car finished....Bob, Kyle, and I race COMMA out there and should be out there at various times this year.

Any reason for going with the aluminum subframe bushings versus the urethane compounds?

I WILL be at Hallett when this is all said and done. I am actually looking forward to COMMA more than Solo.:buttrock

Very interesting pic. You learn something new every day.

Doug

cmonnnn, whats the undercoating weigh?!?!

you're killing me!

OK I have an answer for you...finally. From what I was able to remove from the underside of the car (I estimate 99% or so) and then what I was able to easily vacuum up makes 22.15 lbs. There is still a little on the floor from what I did when I removed the front tray and could access more for removal. There is still some in nooks and crannys in the garage that I won't be able to get until I do a full cleaning. There is still some seam sealer on the inside I plan to remove. Here is how I realistically break it down by weight:

22.15 lbs removed
00.25 lbs left to remove from underside (can't get to with MBX tool)
00.25 lbs of seam sealer/misc. goo inside
00.50 lbs left on floor/in garage/still in shop vac

That makes a total estimate of 23.15 lbs of undercoating/seam sealer on the car total.

Hopes this helps!

I just did this out of curiosity. I took an extra rear outer M3 ball joint and took the dust seal off to see what it actually was. It is defiantly spherical, but not a metal-to-metal spherical. The outer liner is some kind of plastic. They are s lot less ($$) than the spherical that BW and TMS sells. I think I paid $40 give or take. Here are the pics for future reference.



I pressed one of those bushings apart a few months ago. Definately spherical and the non metalic material appeared to be nylon (coated with grease).

I started of the afternoon by cutting the lip off the front strut tower reinforcements so they will work with the Vorshlag camber plates. I welded them in place with three small welds. The welds weren't for added strength, but just to hold them in place. I did notch the top of the reinforcement plate so it did not interfere with the nut on the top of the strut/coilover. Next I let the car down on jack stands for the time being. I figured that I should get cage done before I paint the underside or I will have burnt paint where I was welding. I started removing seam sealer from the inside and prepping a couple places that I will stitch weld. I also removed more junk and brackets. I got the rear-most subframe mounts exposed so I can tie them into the cage. I can't start the cage until I get my tubing bender. In the mean time I don't know what I am going to do....maybe finish the rear end swap.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0911.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0913.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0914.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0915.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0916.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0925.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0921.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0920.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0917.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0918.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0919.jpg

Today I got a lot of the seam sealer removed as well as the last of the tar paper stuff removed. I exposed the front set of the rear subframe mounts so I can tie them into the cage. There were a few critical places that got stitch welded on the inside including the driver seat mounts. The majority of the stitch welding happened to the rear bulkhead. I don't ever see myself running a coilover setup in the rear, so the bulkhead carries the rear spring load (I think just from looking at the design of the car). With that said I think that is where I am going to tie in the rear part of my cage. With that setup I think it will best benefit me with overall rigidity of the cage/chassis.

I also took some initiative to solve my dilemma, and cut out the rear speaker deck. I know it is muddy in the rules, but if I get called on it I can make a new one. After looking at it I know it can not be that structural (especially after the speaker pimps got their hands on it). I left anything that was a structural part of the rear bulkhead.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0926.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0927.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0928.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0929.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0930.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0932.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0931.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0934.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0935.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0936.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0938.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0939.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0940.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0941.jpg

Designed my cage last night. I posted drawing up in the Track Section of BF.com. Here is the link if anyone cares to see.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=913851

sweet build, def going to keep an eye on it, can't wait to see it on the streets

I have been out of town for awhile now. I got back in today and found some stuff at my door. I had figured that since I was about to start my cage that I had better have seats. I bought two Sparco Pro 2000 seats. One is carbon fiber (driver side) and the other is fiberglass. They were both purchased used, but are in near perfect condition. Now I have to get the correct seat bases on the way.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0960.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0961.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0962.jpg

Sweet! We too are awaiting several Sparcos we have had on order for a couple of weeks. Hard to get these things, dang.

One thing I'll point out, then I'll shut up. :) Looks like you have the aluminum side mounts on those Sparcos? We ran some like those in the past and noticed that there were heavy stress cracks at the bends near the floor plates. I have heard that the aluminum side mounts are not FIA approved for this reason?

The steel sideplates are about 3# heavier per pair but do not crack when bent (elastic>plastic).

Sweet! We too are awaiting several Sparcos we have had on order for a couple of weeks. Hard to get these things, dang.

One thing I'll point out, then I'll shut up. :) Looks like you have the aluminum side mounts on those Sparcos? We ran some like those in the past and noticed that there were heavy stress cracks at the bends near the floor plates. I have heard that the aluminum side mounts are not FIA approved for this reason?

The steel sideplates are about 3# heavier per pair but do not crack when bent (elastic>plastic).

The carbon seat had the aluminum mounts on it when I bought it. I ordered a set of Sparco sliders for the driver seat due the fact that I have no clue where I want to be positioned relative to the steering wheel. I will use the aluminum mounts on the passenger side so they won't get too much use. Always looking for tips like that. Thanks! Heard anything wrong with the Sparco sliders?

If you get the floor mounts with multiple mounting holes (like Evosports), you will have a fair amount of adjustability and can ditch the sliders, which are heavy and will add 1" or more to your height. If you can rough in your seating position to within a couple inches in each dimension, then you'll be able to place your harness bar accurately on the cage, know if you need to put a bend in it to clear the seatback, etc. Definitely worth sorting that out before building the cage.

Personally, unless you foresee multiple drivers, I'd ditch the slider (I have one that can be installed, but I don't run it regularly).

-tammer

Recaro aluminum side mounts are FIA approved.

EDIT: And as far as I know, Recaro sliders are the only FIA approved sliders. Sparco sliders always seem to have a fair bit of slop. But then I'm a no slider kinda guy. ; )

If you get the floor mounts with multiple mounting holes (like Evosports), you will have a fair amount of adjustability and can ditch the sliders, which are heavy and will add 1" or more to your height. If you can rough in your seating position to within a couple inches in each dimension, then you'll be able to place your harness bar accurately on the cage, know if you need to put a bend in it to clear the seatback, etc. Definitely worth sorting that out before building the cage.

Personally, unless you foresee multiple drivers, I'd ditch the slider (I have one that can be installed, but I don't run it regularly).

-tammer

IMO those sliders (Momo and Sparco) are pretty crappy, they have a ton of looseness to the point that I always have to inspect the mounting points of the seat given the amount of play the seat has. Most of the time it's all in the sliders, very few times it's been loose fasteners. I'd recommend ditching them unless this is just for autoxing.

Carlos.

I can understand building a track car with poly bushings, but going with sperical bearings like those offer zero flex at all. The ride quality is going to be bone jarring to the point where he may feel in the end it just wasn't worth it.

Doug

I built an E36 M3 for a customer a couple years ago which was a drive to/fro the track dedicated track car. We did a full cage but left some interior (like carpet, full HVAC, etc). Also did all solid bushings/bearings for the suspension including urethane motor/trans mounts. I drove the car from Detroit to Watkins Glen to deliver it and it really wasn't that bad. Car had TCK DA coilovers with 550/600 springs and monster sway bars. Later that summer I drove the car at WGI....sure was nice. ; ) Daily driver...probably not but occasional street use and to/fro the track, no prob.

They are s lot less ($$) than the spherical that BW and TMS sells.

The 'outers' listed are this part sold for 80ish a pair. So about the same you paid. The inners are a machined bearing carrier with aurora bearing.

I took the labor intensive approach to seam sealer removal too. I did it on a hot day outside so it was softer and came off easier. 40 bottles of gatorade later with a completed car I'm stuggling to get the car to minimum weight. :-(

I built an E36 M3 for a customer a couple years ago which was a drive to/fro the track dedicated track car. We did a full cage but left some interior (like carpet, full HVAC, etc). Also did all solid bushings/bearings for the suspension including urethane motor/trans mounts. I drove the car from Detroit to Watkins Glen to deliver it and it really wasn't that bad. Car had TCK DA coilovers with 550/600 springs and monster sway bars. Later that summer I drove the car at WGI....sure was nice. ; ) Daily driver...probably not but occasional street use and to/fro the track, no prob.

Good to know.

Doug

The 'outers' listed are this part sold for 80ish a pair. So about the same you paid. The inners are a machined bearing carrier with aurora bearing.

I took the labor intensive approach to seam sealer removal too. I did it on a hot day outside so it was softer and came off easier. 40 bottles of gatorade later with a completed car I'm stuggling to get the car to minimum weight. :-(

That's good to know that the outers are for a pair...I must have mis-read your website. I haven't bought the stock outers, so those will get replaced too.

I don't think I am even going to be close to minimum weight even with the aluminum diff and everything else that I have done. The cage makes it hard. I calculated it will be about 100' of tubing. Using 1.75" .095" tubing that works out to be 167lbs! That sucks! I am almost thinking about redoing my cage to use less tubing, but I don't want safety to be affected. I'm stuck between a rock and a heavy car!

The carbon seat had the aluminum mounts on it when I bought it. I ordered a set of Sparco sliders for the driver seat due the fact that I have no clue where I want to be positioned relative to the steering wheel. I will use the aluminum mounts on the passenger side so they won't get too much use. Always looking for tips like that. Thanks! Heard anything wrong with the Sparco sliders?
I just ordered a pair of Sparco sliders for a street driven auto-x car we're building that's getting Sparco fixed back seats. Will know more soon. I've used similar sliders before and they work well enough for me... you will see some club racers and track guys that swear off any and all sliders as dangerous and sloppy, though.

We always build cars so the seats can be adjusted easily and quickly for multiple drivers, which usually means modified OEM sliders (see below; total PITA to modify) or aftermarket sliders. Unbolting a seat and remounting it via "shotgun" floor mounts isn't really an option for some of our customers' use. For a customer that never shares his car and only does one type of event they make more sense.

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/223979228-S.jpg http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/200225938-S-1.jpg

I still wish there was a better aftermarket slider out there - with dual locks, easy fore/aft adjustment, lightweight, affordable, low profile, and fail-safe in case of a big crash. I have an idea for a new design but just no time to implement.

I started on mounts for the rear subframe and the shock towers. I used .125" plate for the mounts and mig welded them in. One lesson learned on the floor mounts was spot weld at least every 1". On the first one I only spot welded every 2" and the thin floor warped a lot.

I can guarantee that I on my next car I build that I will have it baked and acid dipped. That would be money well spent. I have been fighting the seam sealer in the metal crevices that I can get out. As soon as it gets hot it contaminates your weld. PITA!:mad

I also got my base and handle for my JD2 tubing bender. Hopefully that means that the bender and die are not far behind!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0963.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0964.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0966.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0971.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0970.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0973.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0974.jpg

Looking good man.

Doug

I got my seat bases and sliders today. I am kinda pissed at Sparco. I spent $300+ on two bases, 1 set of sliders, and hardware and none of it works together. The sliders work with the base, but they are made for the bottom mount seats. The side mounts don't work with the bases either. To get them to work I would have to modify the base. Not that it is a huge deal, but I shouldn't have to pay all that money just to turn around and modify them. I didn't do much research before I bought them other than their website, so I only have that to blame.

Anyway, I am shipping all the bases and sliders back and am going to make my own aluminum mounts. Monday I should have my aluminum for the seat brackets.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/MoparMuscl/DSCN0975.jpg

Anyway, I am shipping all the bases and sliders back and am going to make my own aluminum mounts. Monday I should have my aluminum for the seat brackets.


Wise decision. I think those Sparco sliders are crap anyway. I have a pair of Keiper/Recaro ones that look like they're much better but I haven't decided if I'm going to use them or not.

Carlos.

I would just go the aluminum or angle iron route. Cheaper and more ridgid.

Doug

I would just go the aluminum or angle iron route. Cheaper and more ridgid.

Doug

They will be aluminum. There is a place here in OKC that sells good 'scrap' aluminum for $2 per pound. They have a good selection of almost anything you need.

Very cool build.

I'm interested in following the progress.

Paul Q

I got my seat bases and sliders today. I am kinda pissed at Sparco. I spent $300+ on two bases, 1 set of sliders, and hardware and none of it works together. The sliders work with the