http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-MOTORSPORT-E-46-M3-GRP-N-CHASSIS_W0QQitemZ120183153438QQihZ002QQcategoryZ98 064QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem :cool

http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/c3/e5/8b4f_12.JPG

saw that on the GrandAM site a while back:

http://www.grand-am.com/Messageboard/ShowPosts.asp?ID=5722

there were some Riley M6's for sale too:

http://www.grand-am.com/Messageboard/ShowPosts.asp?ID=5801

Any idea what something like that is worth?

Any idea what something like that is worth?

You could probably "duplicate" it for less than they want (the comments section says they want $17K for it), but there's obviously value to not having to put in the time/effort of finding a slightly wrecked chassis, dipping it, installing a cage, and selling off the interior, etc.

Those A pillar gussets are damn sexy.

really nice...i saw it on racingjunk.com a while back...they wanted 25k back then...at this rate someone should be able to pick it up at a reasonable price...12K or so...you figure an amazing cage build "could" cost 8k then chassis being clean and all...I'd love to have it...it would just scare the hell out of me to build that without a donor...so you're looking at buying another reasonable M3 anyways...or a monster build...out of my range though...

Man, I can't believe some of these are still kicking around out there.

From what I can see in the pics it is kind of a bastardized cage in respect to BMWCCA rules. The A and B pillar attachments would make it Mod class only but there are no tie-ins to the rear subframe suspension mounting points which is a major key point to prepping a chassis for a Mod level car. Can't tell from the ebay pics if the cage ties into the strut towers. And a full-on Mod cage can easily reach $8K being fully tied in to the suspension pionts which that cage is not.

So with that chassis you are not maxing out the rigidity potentially of starting with a bare unibody and still would have to source some major structural components. So for the sellers looking for $17K you have a loooong way to go as a buyer for completing a Mod class car that has compromises from the beginning.

From what I can see in the pics it is kind of a bastardized cage in respect to BMWCCA rules. The A and B pillar attachments would make it Mod class only but there are no tie-ins to the rear subframe suspension mounting points which is a major key point to prepping a chassis for a Mod level car. Can't tell from the ebay pics if the cage ties into the strut towers. And a full-on Mod cage can easily reach $8K being fully tied in to the suspension pionts which that cage is not.

So with that chassis you are not maxing out the rigidity potentially of starting with a bare unibody and still would have to source some major structural components. So for the sellers looking for $17K you have a loooong way to go as a buyer for completing a Mod class car that has compromises from the beginning.


I believe that was sort of the point with these factory chassis/cages. BMW left some to be done by the eventual buyer in order to allow some flexibility regarding the series/class in which the car was going to be entered.

Here's a link with further info/pics on this chassis type....http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/cage_symposium/e46-1/index.htm

Yea, Matt you have to realize these were built as almost kit cars essentially. Built to a universal spec, to meet the basis of almost any series in the world. So you would take the car and modify it as needed.

Depending on what your labor costs are (or if they are free) i think it would probably realistically cost someone more to really duplicate it...but you can come close, if not better with a different design, and about the same money.

Also you have to factor in, these are not used street chassis converted, its off the production line, so its almost garunteed (unless it was dropped on the pallet lol) that its a perfectly straight chassis. These are built on jigs, not shop floors. I don't know any shop in the US that build club race cars (actually i don't think any shop at all other than the big manufacturers) have a facility and the tools that BMW motorsport do. They use CMM's to document every tubes position, and verify each inch of the chassis.

You'd be surprised how many chassis were sitting in peoples "backyards" for a while. Many of the GAC teams bought spare tubs, as well as all the former PTG tubs, and privateers.

That is what my car started off as. A beautiful motorsports chassis.

Couple of points -
1) The cage ties into the front and rear shock towers nicely. Therefore, if you want to run it in a professional series that doesn't allow this, cutting is required.
2) The cage is not typical in construction - i.e. - there is no main hoop per se. The "B-Pillar Hoop" is a straight bar - the left and right sides of the cage are built and hten a straight bar is installed between the two sides at the B-Pillar. Kinda unique.
3) The chassis is the stiffest BMW I have ever experienced (admitedly - I have little experience, but I am impressed)
4) The sheetmetal on the car is THIN! Think press against it with your knee and leave a dent kind of thin. Adds to lightness.
5) Did I mention the chassis is STIFF!! I use spring rates that are a good 10 to 15% lighter than Carl Lagoni's E46 M3 (the sister car of mine at evosport) - and I attribute this to chassis stiffness
6) While the chassis has no seam sealer nor undercoat, all the small BMW supplied brackets and ground posts are still present - so there are a few more pounds you can shve off if you want to.
7) To run in BMWCCA you must run the chassis in Modified (or SM) and you must install a B-Pillar diagonal and harness bars - not supplied by BMW Motorsport
8) Did I mention this chassis is STIFF!!
9) The only way to build this car is to buy a donor car and transplant the crap from it over to the MS Chassis. Otherwise you could be $100k in parts to complete the chassis.

It's WORTH IT!! It's STIFF!!!

Thanks for the post Jon; interesting insite to the motorsport chasis. Looked through a bunch of the picks in your build thread and can see the rear section of tubing tied into the coilover mounting points. Did you ever weigh the bare chasis as you recieved it??

7) To run in BMWCCA you must run the chassis in Modified (or SM) and you must install a B-Pillar diagonal and harness bars - not supplied by BMW Motorsport

Um, you sure about that? There's at least one way around that unless I misunderstood the wording.

Um, you sure about that? There's at least one way around that unless I misunderstood the wording.

To which part are you referring? The Modified class requirement? Or the B-Pillar Diagonal and Harness Bar?

Roll Cage Rule 1. A.:

FIA-approved roll cages (not bolt-in) with a manufacturer’s certificate of approval are allowed with any required braces being added. Factory/BMW Motorsport roll cages with documentation (matching serial number to manufacturer’s certificate) are allowed.

and 4. A.:
A.
At least one (1) diagonal brace shall be used in the same plane as the main hoop.

Now, in 2008, we are allowing "Alternative Design" - so if that is what you are referring to, then yes, you are correct - if someone could get BMW Motorsport to sign a letter indicating that this cage "meets or exceeds the specifications described..." within our rule book, then it could be run sans the above braces. Also, it would need to be approved by the National Tech Steward or his designee.

To which part are you referring? The Modified class requirement? Or the B-Pillar Diagonal and Harness Bar?

Roll Cage Rule 1. A.:

FIA-approved roll cages (not bolt-in) with a manufacturer’s certificate of approval are allowed with any required braces being added. Factory/BMW Motorsport roll cages with documentation (matching serial number to manufacturer’s certificate) are allowed.

and 4. A.:
A.
At least one (1) diagonal brace shall be used in the same plane as the main hoop.

Now, in 2008, we are allowing "Alternative Design" - so if that is what you are referring to, then yes, you are correct - if someone could get BMW Motorsport to sign a letter indicating that this cage "meets or exceeds the specifications described..." within our rule book, then it could be run sans the above braces. Also, it would need to be approved by the National Tech Steward or his designee.

Yup, the 2008 rule is what I was referring to. I didn't think anyone would be putting this together to run this year, even in Cali. ; ) I'm thinking it might not be so hard to get sometype of certification. I mean you might not get the actual fabrictor person but it seems *maybe* BMW would provide something if requested. Dunno, just a thought.

Cheers.

I seriously doubt you'll get anyone at BMW to write or sign a letter about the structural integrity of an old race chassis they don't even make anymore...

I seriously doubt you'll get anyone at BMW to write or sign a letter about the structural integrity of an old race chassis they don't even make anymore...


Don't need to, only that the cage design, as it was originally installed, met certain safety standards.

I have a E-36 motorsports chassis. Actully the one on Gustavo's Page. I know a good builder can build cages as nice, but I was very happy to see Joey Hand's car survive like it did. There is more to those cars than most people realize. They are seam welded and the shock towers have 3 pieces of steal instead of one. Anyway they are amazing chassis and the best foundation to build a race car from. There are legal in ALL CLUB RACING ORGANIZATIONS. The E-36 is a Matter cages which is the same company that builds porsche motorsports cars, GT3 cup and RSR's. I think the E-46 is the same, but I'm not sure.

Correction, GTR chassis is the best BMW Factory Built chassis to build a BMW racecar from :)

If you have the time, energy, and skill (and money of course) you can build it better than BMW, as you can build it from scratch to your exact specifications. Usually, its just easier to use the MS chassis for almost all pro applications...in Europe though, in a series where you are competing against much faster cars, some more extensive chassis work is sometimes required. As I mentioned before, the main advantage BMW has is the facility at which the chassis' are built. They are able to keep the chassis "locked down" during construction, and verify each tubes placement.

Correction, GTR chassis is the best BMW Factory Built chassis to build a BMW racecar from :)

If you have the time, energy, and skill (and money of course) you can build it better than BMW, as you can build it from scratch to your exact specifications. Usually, its just easier to use the MS chassis for almost all pro applications...in Europe though, in a series where you are competing against much faster cars, some more extensive chassis work is sometimes required. As I mentioned before, the main advantage BMW has is the facility at which the chassis' are built. They are able to keep the chassis "locked down" during construction, and verify each tubes placement.

There are different levels of Motorsports Chassis... That one is a Groupe - N which was used in World Challenge and Grand Am. It's not the same as the GT chassis. I know PTG does a lot of modifications to make them GTR's and they start with the GT's

Wait, when did we move to E36 motorsport?

I'm talking the factory E46 GTR chassis from BMW Motorsport, not the early PTG jobs. (you mean DID not DOES, no longer a BMW company...:(). PTG did not build the GTR chassis, they got it direct from BMW, just like the teams in Europe.

Do you have the exact documented differences between the E46 Motorsport chassis (GRP N/A), because other than the additional bracing spec'd for a specific series, I'm pretty sure the MS tubs are the same. Unless you are now referring to E36's...i'm confused lol

Also, didn't Porsche stop contracting out their racecars a while ago? They have their own huge state of the art motorsport manufacturing facility, with tubs stacked to the roof!

What are the differences between the WCGT and GrandAM GT chassis (the most recent non gtr chassis)...other than the required door bracing, i'm pretty sure its the exact same chassis as used everywhere else. GAC modifies them by removing cage ties to front shock tower due to the rules.

The factory GTR chassis has distinct smaller/lower a pillar gussets.

2004 GTR chassis used in Grand Am GT, modified with door braces. I think the seat is installed upside down though lol

http://ptgracing.com/images/watkinsglen2/daveupsidedwn2.gif

Here you can see the normal MS chassis used in Grand Am in 2005 when they switched to the ugly, i mean, "stockish" body. Same thing that is on E30m3performance.

http://ptgracing.com/images/2005/watkinsglen/images/IMG_0975_JPG.jpg

http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/cage_symposium/e46-1/e46_cage-20.jpg

There are only two MS chassis, the Group N/A GT chassis that you see in Grandam Cup, Grandam GT, WC etc, and the GTR chassis that PTG used in ALMS and in Grandam in 2004? Of course the Nascar door bars are and add on to be GrandAm legal.

Steve, the Porsche shells are still built by Matter, then they go back to the warehouse where you see them stacked 10 high. My friends 997 Supercup has the Matter sticker and DMSB number on the rollcage so they are still building them.

There are only two MS chassis, the Group N/A GT chassis that you see in Grandam Cup, Grandam GT, WC etc, and the GTR chassis that PTG used in ALMS and in Grandam in 2004? Of course the Nascar door bars are and add on to be GrandAm legal.

Steve, the Porsche shells are still built by Matter, then they go back to the warehouse where you see them stacked 10 high. My friends 997 Supercup has the Matter sticker and DMSB number on the rollcage so they are still building them.

I could have sworn i saw pictures of the chassis fabrication area in the new manufacturing facility.

Was his car a 2006 (or late 05)? Because the new facility opened in 2006 for late 2006 and 2007+ models I believe, so maybe he was in before Porsche took over.

http://www.porsche.com/international/motorsportandevents/motorsport/philosophy/porschemotorsportcentre/

Sweet video

Steve, his car is a 2006 but he has a 2007 on order so I'll check that when it comes in. I just cant see Porsche bringing that work in-house, it's easier and cheaper for them to sub that work out to Matter, because they have all the tooling, jigs etc. Same for BMW M.

Now maybe they are doing the work on the 911 RSR in house, since those are a lot smaller volume.

How sure are you about that? Where is your current info coming from? I'll have to ask the Porsche guys about this, I'm pretty sure they are built at the factory now. It would be weird for them to spend tens of millions and still outsource something they can easily do in house. How would Matter already have jigs on a new chassis porsche creates? Seems like a waste for them to outsource anything like this.

How long was he on the 2007 list for? There's a bunch of 07's currently available, would be cheaper/quicker to get it used...most of those guys barely drive them anyways. Hell, there is even a 997RSR being sold from Canada that was used for the CDEC (Canadian Drivers Education Championship).

This definitely looks like BMW building their own production Motorsport E90 Chassis'...unless this is Matter, although I highly doubt that (other pictures from same facility show a production line).

http://www.terato.com/cars/info/bmw320si/dev/P0025386.jpg

Also, in every article on the porsche Motorsport facility, they all comment on the cars being constructed there.

"The facilities include workshops, race vehicle production, logistics centre and a terminal for trucks...In the so-called “manufacture”, specialists construct limited numbers of racing sportscars and prototypes. "

He is one of the top on the list for a 2008 Supercup. He has an in with the PMNA people so he has no problem getting a new car if he wants it.

For some reason I cant see the picture in your post. But Matter does, literally have a chassis production line. Thats how they are able to build 250+ Supercup chassis per year. I will try the link you sent me on my home computer and get back to you on the photo but it is probably the assembly line at Matter.

I have read the same articles on the Porsche facility. Everything that I have read, and seen shows the facility as a assembly facility. Almost everything is subcontraced out, including the Carbon tubs for the Spyder RS. All they do at the Porsche Motorsports facility is assemble the cars like a giant model kit.

I'm sure Matter is big, but it doesn't seem these pictures are from Matter...The pictures say BMW Plant at Regensburg. I emailed a couple to you.

http://www.terato.com/cars/info/bmw320si/dev/P0025383.jpg

http://www.terato.com/cars/info/bmw320si/dev/P0025384.jpg

http://www.terato.com/cars/info/bmw320si/dev/P0025385.jpg

http://www.terato.com/cars/info/bmw320si/dev/P0025423.jpg

Steve, those pictures are of the BMW body assembly line at Regensberg where all the 3-series are made. In the past (and I still assume this is what they are doing), the completed bodyshells are then sent to Matter, who install the cages. In the good old days of SuperTouring, they would spend several hundred hours on the shells, including removing all unnecesary bracketry etc.

So the other pictures are from Matter facility? It sure looks like they are the same facility... (I emailed them to you).

Not that it really matters wither way (no pun intended) but I'm just curious where everything is produced now.

The chassis for sale is just the Group N one. The chassis used in the GTR has looks a bit different. Just open the hood and you'll see the difference in the front shock towers. I bet someone has a pic of the engine compartment of one of those. Also, the cage is tied into all four points on the rear subframe. To me, this is the real key as the Group N chassis will eventually rip out the front subframe attachment points. I know, I've had to fix two of them. I do know that the Group N chassis has a 1.5mm wall main hoop and the rest of the tubes are 1mm.

PTG did build one of the GT cars from a GTR tub. There was some driver (I can't remember his name) who wrecked one of the GT cars at Watkins Glen in 2005 and the car was re-tubbed.

IMO the Group N chassis needs some real help in some areas because it's not a rigid as some people think. For short sprint races it's OK but for longer endurance races, the chassis just starts coming apart. If I had one of those chassis, (at a minumum) I'd tie the front subframe pickup points into the cage. Even my Cup car has that done and it's just a slow poke ST car.

yea, thats all been mentioned. You don't need to open the hood, you can tell its a GTR chassis from 100ft away, just look at the A pillar gusset.

Valentine has a GTR chassis (rebuilt for him, I think its only used for special events now, stored at F1 Boston). Blue F1Air (his company) paint scheme.

My E36 Motorsport [replica from McMillin] had front subframe tied in, and I'm looking to do the same on my E46 chassis (as well as rear subframe system I made). Should be interested.

I wish there was a chassis twisting rig around here...we built one for Formula cars up at school, but we had freebies, if I wanted to replicate it, probably would have been many tens of thousands. We built it to be strong enough for a mack truck haha

I just live a few miles from the Mack Truck R&D facility and from my understanding, they have what you are talking about (a twister built for a Mack Truck).

Very cool, I wonder what it would take to let them toss in an e46? :) Now if you were serious, that'd be even better lol They are based in Allentown right?

I'd just need to make some solid struts so I can apply loads through the suspension points.

Very cool, I wonder what it would take to let them toss in an e46? Make it the size of a Class 8, Dump or Concrete Truck.

Um, I'm sure we could fab up an adapter.

Well theoretically speaking, what would your guestimate be on its torsional rigidity? 30k#/degree?

......Valentine has a GTR chassis (rebuilt for him, I think its only used for special events now, stored at F1 Boston). Blue F1Air (his company) paint scheme.
......
It's my understanding that the car will be campaigned once again for the 2008 season. I'm confused about this and have no idea in what series it will run if in fact this is true. Car is no longer in F1

Oh really? He did not sell it, did he?

I guess they could have the other body kit put on and run it with the M5 v8 in Grand Am.

I would have thought he would get a seat with the Riley M6 in GT.

Um, I'm sure we could fab up an adapter.

Well theoretically speaking, what would your guestimate be on its torsional rigidity? 30k#/degree?
I guess it's probably around 60% of the number you quoted. Remember, this is just a round about guess.

It's my understanding that the car will be campaigned once again for the 2008 season. A Prep 1 S62 V8 powered M3 is eligible for Grand-Am. Sounds like a done deal to me.
2-2 BMW E46 (Prep 1)
2-2.1 M-3 bodywork allowed.
2-2.2 Stock M5 engine with the following Dinan camshafts Int:DC526-0005 + 0007
Ex DC526-0006 + 0008. Piston rod and pin 936 gms.
2-2.3 Any non-sequential transmission allowed. Fabricated bell housing allowed.
2-2.4 # 6 31 12 7 497-498 front control arm, # 33 32 2 229 685-686 rear trailing arm
fabricated upper rear and lower track arm allowed.Inner wheel well modification
for tire clearance allowed.
2-2.5 Prep 2 calipers and 360mm rotors allowed.Dual Master cylinders allowed.
2-2.6 Minimum weight is 2575 lbs
2-2.7 May use OEM ABS
2-2.8 Tires sizes are 305/660-18 front and 305/675-18 rear

Yea, that should be interesting to see, E46 V8 back in Rolex.

Whoops, I typed # but meant nm, which would be about 22000 pounds/degree.

Ah, I just found some data though, notice the huge difference when you keep that huge rear bulkhead in place w/o the folding seats. If you apply the same ratio in the sedan from Without to with, you get about 16000nm/deg. Not sure on what you would factor in for a full cage, but I could imagine if you consider the GTR chassis, it would probably be close to double, getting close to the 30k number I was thinking. Would be a very cool test if someone could set it up.

BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg

So the other pictures are from Matter facility? It sure looks like they are the same facility... (I emailed them to you).

Not that it really matters wither way (no pun intended) but I'm just curious where everything is produced now.

The photos you emailed me are definately not the Regensberg plant. I would say they are either Matter or BMW Motorsport.

The chassis for sale is just the Group N one. The chassis used in the GTR has looks a bit different. Just open the hood and you'll see the difference in the front shock towers. I bet someone has a pic of the engine compartment of one of those. Also, the cage is tied into all four points on the rear subframe. To me, this is the real key as the Group N chassis will eventually rip out the front subframe attachment points. I know, I've had to fix two of them. I do know that the Group N chassis has a 1.5mm wall main hoop and the rest of the tubes are 1mm.

PTG did build one of the GT cars from a GTR tub. There was some driver (I can't remember his name) who wrecked one of the GT cars at Watkins Glen in 2005 and the car was re-tubbed.

IMO the Group N chassis needs some real help in some areas because it's not a rigid as some people think. For short sprint races it's OK but for longer endurance races, the chassis just starts coming apart. If I had one of those chassis, (at a minumum) I'd tie the front subframe pickup points into the cage. Even my Cup car has that done and it's just a slow poke ST car.

I would guess that you have a very early Group N+ chassis, the later 4-doors made for the WTCC did tie into the subframes. If your car is the ex-CSL racing chassis then it is the earlier Group N+ style chassis.

They refer to the "body" being built at the Regensberg facility, although it does not specify where the 'safety cell' (aka cage) is built. I'll hopefully hear back from my contact this week and he'll have a definitive answer for us.
http://bmw-motorsport.com/ms/en/fascination/technology/car/chassis_design.html

anyone have pics of the front subframe attachment points on the GTR chassis?

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/gtrfrontsachs.jpg

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/enginebayptg.jpg
(steering pump looks familiar ;))

what specifically are you looking for?

post both, i've never seen the underisde of a gtr chassis. interested in seeing how the boy at Munich do it.

There are a couple variation.. Different engines, shocks used at different times, control arms, tie rods, etc. The chassis stays the same though.

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/ptgfront.jpg

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/e46sub.jpg

http://jaffster.com/misc/Misc/fronttower.jpg

right click save

Thats something else. BMW needs to build another gt1/2 car. Love how perfect everything looks from the factory.

You should see the Z4M :)

http://dtmpower.net/gallery/photos.php

There are a few PTG galleries in there. Badass stuff.

I thought I would update you guys.

I spoke with BMW Motorsport, not only has Matter not built anything for BMW in over 10 YEARS, but Matter is no longer in existence.

Straight from the horses mouth...or whatever they have in germany ;)

Not sure where your sources are Alex, but they seem to be outdated.

I have read that some products are marketed under the Matter label simply b/c of the brand name, although i'm not sure on how factual that info is.

Roll Centre and Safety devices are the two companies I have found that have taken over some of their clients, but it does not seem BMW nor Porsche uses them.

Steve, is that 22k lb/deg torsional figure chassis only? or Hub-to-Hub?

I thought I would update you guys.

I spoke with BMW Motorsport, not only has Matter not built anything for BMW in over 10 YEARS, but Matter is no longer in existence.

Straight from the horses mouth...or whatever they have in germany ;)

Not sure where your sources are Alex, but they seem to be outdated.

I have read that some products are marketed under the Matter label simply b/c of the brand name, although i'm not sure on how factual that info is.

Roll Centre and Safety devices are the two companies I have found that have taken over some of their clients, but it does not seem BMW nor Porsche uses them.

Matter may not build anything for BMW anymore, did not claim that they did but assumed they did because of their past relationship, but I do have to disagree with your source.

Matter did build the E46 4-door and M3 chassis, and that information was directly from BMW motorsport at the time (around 2001).

As far as them being out of business, I cant find any info on this. I do know for a fact that they built all the 996 Supercup chassis for Porsche, because I have looked at several cars which had a DMSB identification # sticker on the cage, listing Matter as the builder of the rollcage. Next time I am at my friend's garage with the 997 Supercup car, I will check the rollcage on that.

My source is a managing Director of BMW Motorsport, I'm pretty sure he's the best possible source of info available. Maybe you misunderstood what they meant by Matter building them?

Do you know for a fact by actually seeing the facility, or do you know just by some club racers?

As I said before, just because a sticker on the cage says Matter, does not mean much.

can anybody get this guys email and pm me? I just set up an ebay account and it takes 3 days before i can contact anyone.

This is the email provided on Grand Am's classifieds, I'm almost positive its the same guy.

info@getprohelp.net

thanx steve just emailed him

What kind of project do you have in mind?

nothing far out i just saw that the guy has s54 parts for sale. I'm looking for a s54 oil pump/pan to install on my e36.

"My source is a managing Director of BMW Motorsport, I'm pretty sure he's the best possible source of info available. Maybe you misunderstood what they meant by Matter building them?

Do you know for a fact by actually seeing the facility, or do you know just by some club racers?

As I said before, just because a sticker on the cage says Matter, does not mean much"

Actually the sticker means everything. It is the FIA homologation sticker for the cage and has to list the cage manufacture, so in other words the actual constructor of the cage. To get FIA approval with a Fabricated Chromoly cage the cage manufacture must provide a lot of engineering documentation and actually pass some type of test in order to get approval. If BMW Motorsport was the manufacture then it would not have listed Matter as the rollcage builder.

My source of information on this was Mitch Herman, who at the time was doing a lot of business with BMW Motorsport. If you dont know Mitch, I am sure there are a lot of people on this board than can vouch for the fact that he did have very good contacts at BMW Motorsport and knew what he was talking about.

I was reading last night and one article mentioned since a lot of these companies traded ownership, many of the labels/branding was left the same. Maybe the design is a Matter design and the FIA has certified the design...thats very possible.

Well, how long ago was that? I know of Mitch, he used to have Motorsport Imports in NJ (local biz).

Can you get in touch with Porsche motorsport, or get some kind of verification that matter is still in business and in fact is producing porsche and bmw chassis? I'm very interested to find more proof, but so far, the best proof I have is direct from BMW motorsport.

This information was from Mitch when the E46 M3 chassis were first available, so early to mid 2001. He got his information from Varga (his contact) at BMW Motorsport, Varga worked in a capacity of a team laison and parts sales so he was very familiar with all the parts and who was making them for BMW Motorsports. The same information was coroborated with Steinlein Motorsport who purchased one of the first E46 M3 chassis, and was the team the Mitch was racing with in Europe (and who also built my M3)

As far as Porsche goes, I will have a look at my friends 997, I know it had a DMSB/FIA sticker on the A-pillar of the cage and I am almost positive it listed Matter as the rollcage constructor. I know for a fact that it did list Matter as the constructor on his 996. The sticker had Matter's logo and address on it.

Ok, it doesn't make a difference to me. If you get some pics or hard facts post em up. Again, as far as I'm concerned, I'm trusting this source for current info.

I think this is an old listing from bimmerworld, but they refer to a bmw super touring shell as built by bmw motorsport and matter.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/html/e46-super-touring-motorsport-shell.htm