So here is the dilemma facing some people....should you choose your chip based on performance or name? As most people know who has 335's out there there is the Vishnu PROcede which has been in the market for some time and the Activeautowerke's XEDE (I don't wish to count DINAN in because too expensive and product not yet available). I want to hear the opinion of people who have either chip in their car or who have tested both and know their opinions on which one they would choose. I've heard many great things about Vishnu but they haven't had much experience underneath their belts.

My questions would be:

Cost of each system?

Do you have to replace any other parts...or is it just the chip?

Does it void the warranty? I can wait until my warranty is up before installing if that's the case...the car performs quite well the way it is, but the extra power would be nice later.

How hard is the install...I watched a video on one and it was kind of complex...I just know from past experience you dip into one of these projects and there's always something in the instructions that don't jibe or just doesn't make sense..then you're screwed.

What say the rest of you?

Don't forget to include us in the mix. We're over 150 very satisfied JB customers now. :)

I say go with Terrys system. The JB2 is the best, easiest to install, bang for the buck. I think paying 1100 or 1200 more for the 30 or so extra horsepower that the Proceed gives you (at riskier boost levels and more chances of a limp code) is just not justified. I have had a lot of tuned cars and at this point reliability is most important to me. Plus that amount of extra power provided by the more expensive piggybacks like Proceed is not going to give you an enormous speed advantage like many think it will.

I say go with Terrys system. The JB2 is the best, easiest to install, bang for the buck. I think paying 1100 or 1200 more for the 30 or so extra horsepower that the Proceed gives you (at riskier boost levels and more chances of a limp code) is just not justified. I have had a lot of tuned cars and at this point reliability is most important to me. Plus that amount of extra power provided by the more expensive piggybacks like Proceed is not going to give you an enormous speed advantage like many think it will.

+1

Juice box is the best bang for the buck on the market at a cost of about 1/3 of other tuners. Real world results have been on par with PROcede 1.47 and AA Xede. No limp mode or CEL with the Juice box. Just remember most of the big gains with Procede/Xede come down low due to higher mid-range boost. It looks great on paper, but 40 extra lb ft of torque at 2500-3000 doesn't translate to real world performance.

I am sure you'll get lots of arguments supporting each product.

Does the Juicebox void the mfg warranty?

Does it require any additional dyno tuning?

Does the Juicebox void the mfg warranty?

Does it require any additional dyno tuning?

Any aftermarket modification can 'potentially' void the warranty. It has to be proven that the modification led to a particular part failure. For example, it would be difficult for BMW to void your engine warranty if you had an aftermarket stereo; however, they may argue if you had a tuning device and your engine failed, that the tuning device was the culprit, even if it wasn't. Generally, it is advisable to remove any tuning device before any major service to avoid any conflict.

No additional dyno tuning is required with juice box.

+1

Juice box is the best bang for the buck on the market at a cost of about 1/3 of other tuners. Real world results have been on par with PROcede 1.47 and AA Xede. No limp mode or CEL with the Juice box. Just remember most of the big gains with Procede/Xede come down low due to higher mid-range boost. It looks great on paper, but 40 extra lb ft of torque at 2500-3000 doesn't translate to real world performance.

I am sure you'll get lots of arguments supporting each product.

Hello all:

Might I humbly suggest that you consider the installation and removal. I have recently confirmed that the shifting anomalies were not related to the TT.

It is a bit disturbing that I can not hold a gear and drift through a corner.

Anyway, after reading some of these posts, it appears that stealth is the best bet. 20 seconds in and 20 seconds out. Eliminate a bunch of arguments with the dealer.

I have no dog in this fight.

How many people have been happy with their purchase of their chips? And what chips did you use in your car? Reliability is a key factor for me. Most claim their piggy-back is an easy install which shouldn't take long. Saw it done before.

Does the Juicebox void the mfg warranty?

Does it require any additional dyno tuning?

You can check out the install video and guide on our website @ www.bmwjuice.com (http://www.bmwjuice.com), but install is easy, and once removed does not leave a trace.

No tuning is required, just install and enjoy the extra 40rwhp/50rwtq. :)

We also offer a 14 day return policy if you're not 100% satisfied!

Thanks for the info! Are you located in the bay area by any chance? If you do a trial period, I wouldn't mind coming down to have it installed and if I like, i'll take it!

Thanks for the info! Are you located in the bay area by any chance? If you do a trial period, I wouldn't mind coming down to have it installed and if I like, i'll take it!

I'm closer to Los Angeles, but you're welcome to come down and drive our development car. :)

Awesome will contact if heading south sometime soon.

The only question that you need to ask is .. are you willing to void your warranty if discovered? The tuners don't warranty their products to comply with BMW factory warranty so there is no question it will be grounds for BMW to void your warranty. There are a couple owner on e90 post dealing with it right now.

Don't be fooled into thinking it's not detectable or that BMW needs to prove anything to void your warranty. BMW will void the warranty and make you try to get it reinstated. That alone will cost you thousands in legal costs.

The only question that you need to ask is .. are you willing to void your warranty if discovered? The tuners don't warranty their products to comply with BMW factory warranty so there is no question it will be grounds for BMW to void your warranty. There are a couple owner on e90 post dealing with it right now.

Don't be fooled into thinking it's not detectable or that BMW needs to prove anything to void your warranty. BMW will void the warranty and make you try to get it reinstated. That alone will cost you thousands in legal costs.

I once had a warranty coverage on a (then new) 2000 Corvette denied because they noticed too much rubber under the fender. They claimed I was abusing the car and refused to do the work under warranty.

I fought and fought and after much hassle (more than the repair to my fuel pump was worth), got them to do the repair, but it was a major hassle, and the car wasn't even modified.

The moral of the story is even without modification warranty claims can he a hassle. I assure you the JB is transparent and easy to remove, but things like breaking off a clip or leaving a bolt out can give it away, and that risk will be present with any modification.

The only question that you need to ask is .. are you willing to void your warranty if discovered? The tuners don't warranty their products to comply with BMW factory warranty so there is no question it will be grounds for BMW to void your warranty. There are a couple owner on e90 post dealing with it right now.

Don't be fooled into thinking it's not detectable or that BMW needs to prove anything to void your warranty. BMW will void the warranty and make you try to get it reinstated. That alone will cost you thousands in legal costs.


This is not true, if your dealership is cool, like mine is, and they don't have a pole up their butt than if they see it, it will not be voided..........the guys at my dealership know I have it and they did not void my warranty........

I once had a warranty coverage on a (then new) 2000 Corvette denied because they noticed too much rubber under the fender. They claimed I was abusing the car and refused to do the work under warranty.

I fought and fought and after much hassle (more than the repair to my fuel pump was worth), got them to do the repair, but it was a major hassle, and the car wasn't even modified.

The moral of the story is even without modification warranty claims can he a hassle. I assure you the JB is transparent and easy to remove, but things like breaking off a clip or leaving a bolt out can give it away, and that risk will be present with any modification.


I hear you, I don't mean to imply anything other than be prepared to have your warranty voided or fight for it. I disagree strongly with the idea a fuel pump should be denied even with software modification.

This is not true, if your dealership is cool, like mine is, and they don't have a pole up their butt than if they see it, it will not be voided..........the guys at my dealership know I have it and they did not void my warranty........


I disagree, expecting a dealer to be "cool" and not void your warranty is nice but not a guarantee, so be prepared to fight for your warranty.

Why would BMW void a warranty which is on a car and they are getting back? Only makes it harder for them to resell it.......

Why would BMW void a warranty which is on a car and they are getting back? Only makes it harder for them to resell it.......

If they void the warranty on a lease you are required to refinance and purchase the car. They will not take it back.

If they void the warranty on a lease you are required to refinance and purchase the car. They will not take it back.

Well I just spoke to the BMW shop and if they discover the PROCEDE which many customers have on their cars here on long island they DO NOT void the warranty...........

Hey Cleaner, did you pick your car up at Peterpan BMW? I've been there once, not the most enjoyable crowd of people, but then again it was only once that I've been there. Got mine at SF BMW and they were not great the first time, but now since I've gone in, they have been really great. One thing is that their cars appear to have a lot of scratches on their bumper (their new cars). I want the chip placed in. I don't really now how many times a year I really go to the dealer to get work done besides the usual maintenance.

Well I just spoke to the BMW shop and if they discover the PROCEDE which many customers have on their cars here on long island they DO NOT void the warranty...........

Most dealers won't do something like that unless you give them a lot of attitude. Just like most cops won't give you a ticket for no front plate, or for speeding 5mph over the limit. Doesn't mean they can't...

Hey Cleaner, did you pick your car up at Peterpan BMW? I've been there once, not the most enjoyable crowd of people, but then again it was only once that I've been there. Got mine at SF BMW and they were not great the first time, but now since I've gone in, they have been really great. One thing is that their cars appear to have a lot of scratches on their bumper (their new cars). I want the chip placed in. I don't really now how many times a year I really go to the dealer to get work done besides the usual maintenance.

Yes it came from PeterPan. I have good luck at Peterpan myself. SF BMW is a little crazy getting in and out of service for me. It's also farther away

Hello all:

Might I humbly suggest that you consider the installation and removal. I have recently confirmed that the shifting anomalies were not related to the TT.

It is a bit disturbing that I can not hold a gear and drift through a corner.

Anyway, after reading some of these posts, it appears that stealth is the best bet. 20 seconds in and 20 seconds out. Eliminate a bunch of arguments with the dealer.

I have no dog in this fight.

I am very happy to hear that you got an answer. We worked it many different ways and could never duplicate the issue here.:redspot

But I would also like to plug our Turbo Tuner for the original Poster. WE have dealers all over the US. We offer a one week money back satisfaction guarantee. The Turbo Tuner is the only true single point contact plug in play on the market. There are nearly a thousand TT's on the road in the US and Canada and hundreds in Europe, Japan, South Africa and the UK, you can buy the TT at several BMW dealerships in their parts department. Our office in Fremont would be very happy to install one for you for free. :gasthrowe :)

Eurobahn Motors http://www.eurobahnmotors.com/TurboTuner.aspx

Jeff
Eurobahn Automotive Group

IMO wait for the Helix Attache

IMO wait for the Helix Attache

Nothing wrong with that option but it's just a slightly lower cost Xede, and its probably 6 months away from being to the level that Active has taken the current Xede programming to.

Are all of these tuners (active, helix. vishnu) using the same dam box? Seems kind of pointless.....

Are all of these tuners (active, helix. vishnu) using the same dam box? Seems kind of pointless.....

Actually all 3 boxes are different. The only one that is the same is AA and RD sport.

I am very happy to hear that you got an answer. We worked it many different ways and could never duplicate the issue here.:redspot

But I would also like to plug our Turbo Tuner for the original Poster. WE have dealers all over the US. We offer a one week money back satisfaction guarantee. The Turbo Tuner is the only true single point contact plug in play on the market. There are nearly a thousand TT's on the road in the US and Canada and hundreds in Europe, Japan, South Africa and the UK, you can buy the TT at several BMW dealerships in their parts department. Our office in Fremont would be very happy to install one for you for free. :gasthrowe :)

Eurobahn Motors http://www.eurobahnmotors.com/TurboTuner.aspx

Jeff
Eurobahn Automotive Group

Hello Jeff@eurobahn.us:

No answer, just more questions. However it does not appear to be related to the TT. However, I intend to soon be the proud owner of the latest BMW ETK, TIS, WDS & EBA software.

Remember, we are the Government and "wir haben unsere Weisen!"

I guess everyone has a different experience at dealerships. Both dealerships are the same distance from me. I will try Peterpan again soon. Want to go there and see their accessories. I am thinking about which chip still, will do more research good to hear people's opinions.

I have been researching these as well, and right now I am torn between the Procede and the Xede.

To me, I want to make the most power possible and safely of course. The Procede would probably do the best at this, but I need to drive an Xede car to make sure.

Hello Jeff@eurobahn.us:

No answer, just more questions. However it does not appear to be related to the TT. However, I intend to soon be the proud owner of the latest BMW ETK, TIS, WDS & EBA software.

Remember, we are the Government and "wir haben unsere Weisen!"

Excellent!! Good get on those software programs, they are very important if you want to stay up to date.

We just added South Africa to our list of Turbo Tuner Dealers: Supertech Auto, Kyalami Grand prix Circuit, Kyalami, South Africa, 1684
Mobile: +27 83 309 5033 :redspot

Jeff
Eurobahn

Turbo Tuner looks like an extremely easy install...I don't think the Juicebox looked too difficult but you had a lot more stuff to take apart to get to the wiring.

Can anyone tell me the benefits of one over the other...

Also, with both of thse systems (JuiceBox and Turbo Tuners) being such easy installs, why would you consider a Xede or any other?? What would the benefit be? I want to pull the trigger on one of these, but hate to make the wrong decision.

Turbo Tuner looks like an extremely easy install...I don't think the Juicebox looked too difficult but you had a lot more stuff to take apart to get to the wiring.

Can anyone tell me the benefits of one over the other...

Also, with both of thse systems (JuiceBox and Turbo Tuners) being such easy installs, why would you consider a Xede or any other?? What would the benefit be? I want to pull the trigger on one of these, but hate to make the wrong decision.

Both products work well but they work differently. I can't speak to the TT, but the JB intercepts and alters MAP and O2 sensors to give extra power with a much richer air/fuel ratio. Install is pretty easy, and once installed its very stealthy. Most customers don't remove for oil changes.

Terry, sorry I missed your call today, try me again tomorrow or at home this evening to discuss. I think I am much better to go with the technology that intercepts the information and alters it...there can't be much going wrong when you go that route, versus other options. I like the stealthyness of the product...not that many will be under my hood, but not having to remove it to have my oil changed is nice...I also like the option of the "R" upgrade...another 20hp can't hurt.

Question: If I have 1/2 race fuel and wanted to switch off the "R" upgrade...is there a problem? Do I have to lower the octane before switching it off? What damage will happen if it is inadvertently switched on with normal pump gas? How much time is involved in installing the "R" upgrade? What will happen if I add better air intakes and/or cat back exhaust options? Will performance increase or will I need to modify the JB2 for these additions? I would think it would remain the same.

I hate hitting you with all of these questions, I just like to do my homework first.

Also, the manual states I can run 89 octane fuel, is this still possible with the JB2" I know I would need to have premium + racefuel or octane boost for the "R" upgrade.

Has anyone had experience running their stock 335xi on 89 octane fuel?

Terry, sorry I missed your call today, try me again tomorrow or at home this evening to discuss. I think I am much better to go with the technology that intercepts the information and alters it...there can't be much going wrong when you go that route, versus other options. I like the stealthyness of the product...not that many will be under my hood, but not having to remove it to have my oil changed is nice...I also like the option of the "R" upgrade...another 20hp can't hurt.

Question: If I have 1/2 race fuel and wanted to switch off the "R" upgrade...is there a problem? Do I have to lower the octane before switching it off? What damage will happen if it is inadvertently switched on with normal pump gas? How much time is involved in installing the "R" upgrade? What will happen if I add better air intakes and/or cat back exhaust options? Will performance increase or will I need to modify the JB2 for these additions? I would think it would remain the same.

I hate hitting you with all of these questions, I just like to do my homework first.

Hi Rich,

You can run race gas or a race gas mix on the normal JB2 and will get a nominal power gain vs. pure pump gas. If you run the race gas map with normal gas you might get a limp code. It's not likely you'd damage anything as the ECU has very good fail safes in place, but best not to rely on them and ensure the proper octane. :)

The JB2 requires at least 91 octane, do not use 89 octane with the JB2 or you may get a limp code.

You can add exhaust, intake, etc without changing the JB, it's configured for absolute air/fuel ratios and boost levels regardless of your supporting mods.

Jbs2ftw!

Both products work well but they work differently. I can't speak to the TT, but the JB intercepts and alters MAP and O2 sensors to give extra power with a much richer air/fuel ratio. Install is pretty easy, and once installed its very stealthy. Most customers don't remove for oil changes.

so let me get this right, the max output after the JB chip is 343 rwhp? and this was done on pump gas (91)?

so let me get this right, the max output after the JB chip is 343 rwhp? and this was done on pump gas (91)?

Depends on supporting mods, there are several dyno charts on our website @ www.bmwjuice.com. Best was ~323rw on 91 octane all stock, ~347rw on 91 octane with downpipes (stock catback).

^wow, that was fast, thanks for the reply terry.

I'll throw a few quick cents in: Brecht BMW in San Diego offers the Split Second Turbo Tuner and they cover the warranty. So, thanks again Jeff for the Turbo Tuner! :D

I wrote an article for the Roundel many years on the wisdom of chipping our cars. Technology has changed a lot since then, but the fundamental question remains:

If it's so easy to get significantly more HP & torque, why didn't BMW do it? Some would say that BMW wants to keep a large gap in HP between the 335 and the M3 to justify the higher cost of the M3, but I doubt that's the reason. The M3 is a different animal.

The most plausible explanation is that BMW didn't push the envelope because there would be reliability or durability consequences down the road. Not only does the N54 engine have to handle the extra torque, so does the entire drivetrain and other components of the car. Can the cooling system handle the extra load? Are the brakes sufficient? How about the clutch and the automatic tranny?

Another concern I have about "pushing the envelope" is that it is unlikely that tuners test their programming as well as BMW does. BMW probably puts millions of miles on their cars during their development, including very hot and very cold climates, different driving patterns, etc.

I have one more concern. The 335i is the first production turbo in many years. Based on what I've heard, it's a great engine, but it's not rock solid yet. Why strain it further?

Does this mean that you shouldn't chip you car? NO. But it means that you should understand that are you taking a risk, not only of damaging your car but of getting caught and losing your warranty.

Bottom line: it depends on how much you love performance and how much risk you are comfortable with.

deems if you wrote about and own bmws you should know that while this is the first turbo car in a while from BMW they deal and test turbo all the time in other engine applications (F1).

And I say yes, they do detune their cars to "fit in line" many companies (Porsche) have been accused of this all the time. But basing things on other cars and lines they will offer a "bump" in power in the future (which means more boost). They aren't pushing any envelopes or getting close to long term reliablity problems. So "tuning" is an option that is explored in aftermarket and in house.

To the OP.

At this point if you were considering Procede or any of the $1200 - $1500 options Dinan is the better option.

If you're in the lower option (JB and TT) are great options

You could be right Beer Goggles. But here's how I look at it.

If I was the lead engineer on the 335, I'd start out on the conservative side to give the car time for the bugs to get worked out. No matter how much you plan and test, you never really know how your product will perform until there are thousands of them out there under thousands of different conditions for many years. Being an engineer and having developed new products for decades, I've learned that you often get surprised by a few things. So it wouldn't be smart for BMW to start out by pushing the car to its theoretical max.

The basic question still remains: there's risk involved in "pushing the envelope". If you lust for more power and you are willing to take the risk, I recommend you gather lots of information from the tuners, including power curves, how they achieve their power gains, how they tested their products, the number of units installed, failure rates, the consequences of accidentally using lower octane gas, support and return policies, the number of years in business and the backgrounds of their chief engineers. And I wouldn't let cost be a factor. Get the best product you can for your car. You are handing control of your car over to these guys and you want to pass that control to the people you trust the most.

By the way, when I wrote my article for the Roundel many years ago ("To Chip or not to Chip"), I talked to Steve Dinan and an engineer at Autothority. I was impressed with both of them because they both took huge risks to pursue their love of great cars. I live in the San Francisco Bay and Steve gave me a tour of his shop. He was very gracious. We all know what he's accomplished over the years. AutoThority also seems to be doing well. I chose the Dinan chip and had it installed by Billy Maher, who now owns and runs Bavarian Tuning in Santa Rosa.

The basic question still remains: there's risk involved in "pushing the envelope". If you lust for more power and you are willing to take the risk, I recommend you gather lots of information from the tuners, including power curves, how they achieve their power gains, how they tested their products, the number of units installed, failure rates, the consequences of accidentally using lower octane gas, support and return policies, the number of years in business and the backgrounds of their chief engineers. And I wouldn't let cost be a factor. Get the best product you can for your car. You are handing control of your car over to these guys and you want to pass that control to the people you trust the most.


Either way you look at tuning a stock car, the light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long ... so, yes, long term reliability and longevity will suffer when tuning a stock car. I like the JB1 because I don't "drive it like I stole it" every day, but when you need that extra boost, it's there and easy to remove and install with a mild boost not to uncommon if you lived above 5k feet.

The thing is with this car, is that it has an electronic boost controller, which adjust to put out 300hp with varying conditions (actually it monitors TQ). So STOCK it goes from .6 bar to .8 bar to give the same performance. So some "systems" just make it go closer to the factory upper limit of .8bar that people at high elevation get.

You could be right Beer Goggles.............

I chose the Dinan chip and had it installed by Billy Maher, who now owns and runs Bavarian Tuning in Santa Rosa.

If I read this right you had a Dinan chip installed but not on a 335? Does anyone here have the Dinan 335 chip (or program upgrade) ?

Correct. I had a Dinan chip installed on a 5 series many years old.