Now, before you guys jump all over me, I'm just looking for an explanation. I'd been trying to test drive an E46 M3 for some time now and, finnally got my chance a couple of days ago. It was a convertable. Not my first choise, I would have prefered to try the sedan but, beggars can't be choosers. It was an '01 in relatively good condition with about 40,000 mi. I was able to drive it the way I wanted and, had just gotten out of my '97 M3 so I really had a feel for the difference. My E36 M3 has suspension work, AA cold air intake, AA software and supersprint exaust. I was SHOCKED, STUNNED and HIGHLY DISAPOINTED. I am an M fanatic so I really wanted love it but....when I did a three-two down shift, matching the revs just right and, mashed the gas, I felt like the car went NO WHERE! After all of the 333HP hype, the countless articles I've read and, seeing some of the video's on this board I was left with the most aweful impression. I repeated this test several times. I then slowed the car to about twenty M.P.H. focused on the tack and redlined it in 2nd and then in 3rd. There was no feeling of torque. And, although, car I was driving had problably at least 70 more H.P. than my car, my car felt far more torquey and YES, FASTER! I was so exasperated that I brought the car to a complete stop and, I'm no drag racer, lauched without dropping the clutch just reving to redline in first then shifting to second. NO CHIRP! and, I wasn't exactly planted in my seat. I kept saying to myself and out loud, "where's the torque." My friend who drove the car also said he had the same impression about the torque but that, perhaps, the car was deceptively fast or something. I look at the stats and the videos and I just don't understand.:dunno Please help me to understand this.:confused:

Originally posted by Mtrack
Not my first choise, I would have prefered to try the sedan

the E46 M3's are only coupes and convertibles right ??? :dunno

Yes, I drove the convertable but, would have prefered to try the coupe. Even with the extra weight of the convertable I was expecting something totally different.

did you have the DSC off?

I'd hazard a guess that you were expecting more due to the 93 more hp in the E46 over the E36 M3? 93 hp is a lot, no doubt, but I'm guessing the difference in torque between the 2 (only 16 ft lbs, and at a higher rpm) coupled with the extra heft of the E46 platform (especially in Vert form) made for less a difference than you were expecting.

I know I drove an S52 M Roadster and an S54 M Roadster back to back and "around town" I was hard pressed to notice the extra 75 hp between the 2. Sure, if I got on it and stayed on it, it was there, but coming from a low end torquey V8, I was left somewhat unimpressed, especially given that at the time the S54 Roadster was going for MSRP.

Hence, why I got a blower and went with the 3.0 at $1500 under invoice. But that's another story.

The S54 pulls well and for a while, but it doesn't have much more torque than the S52... maybe that was what was missing for you???

First of all there is no M3 Sedan, second of all, did you press the "sport" button? it makes a world of a difference!

and third...are nyou sure it was an M3? :) ....somthing is definately wrong! :az:

Yes, I mispoke, it was a coupe, not a sedan. The sport button was pressed and, the traction control was fully disabled. It was an E46 M3.....I'm certain. Silverstreak, I was thinking it might be the fact that there is not a large difference in the stock torque figures too but, the car I tested actually felt less torquey than my car. Could my mods make my car feel like it has more torque than a stock E46 M3 but my car is actually slower?

Originally posted by Mtrack
Yes, I mispoke, it was a coupe, not a sedan. The sport button was pressed and, the traction control was fully disabled. It was an E46 M3.....I'm certain. Silverstreak, I was thinking it might be the fact that there is not a large difference in the stock torque figures too but, the car I tested actually felt less torquey than my car. Could my mods make my car feel like it has more torque than a stock E46 M3 but my car is actually slower?

there is something definately wrong, the E46 M3 would run ring around any moded E36 M3(with the exception of SC\turbo)

I have a 2003 E46 M3 and it's a fast and a very powerfull car!


errrr....how could you not tell a difference between a conv. and a coupe? :95

When I take people for a ride they usually mutter "holy shit" when I step on it. Maybe you just aren't used to driving it yet, and don't really know how to exploit it?

marwan, he misspoke by saying it was a sedan compared to a coupe.

i drove an e46, and i wasn't all that impressed either. Its weak nuts down low and when it comes on cam in the 4k area it just kinda picks up, doesn't throw u back in the seat or give u the feeling in your stomach. While im sure its fast, it didn't feel like it to me.

bmw to make a perfect e46 m3
change cams to get some more low rpm power
give it another .5 liter of displacement
drop about 500 lbs
and put a set of vaders in it.

oh yeah, can i tell them to put a turbo on it to.

sticky whats funny is when i hit second in full boost on my blown cobra, nobody says anything. Not a holy shit, not a damn, not a wow, just an Oh ok, its kinda quick. I don't get it. and they drive saabs and shit

As others have stated, the car is no torque monster, and the Cab, especially, is overweight (over 1/2 sec. slower to 60). But, common 1/4 mi. times of 13.2 - 13.4 at 105 or better for the Coupe seem pretty good to me. (Nothing compared to Quadcammer's blown Cobra, I'm sure). But, the car is about overall performance, not 1/4 miles.

As far as no "chirp," the extra tire width of the E46 and the M Lock differential give you a lot more traction than with the E36, which is what you want. The Sport button does not make it any faster, just more responsive to you right foot.

Sticky, I am not dissing your car in any way. The video of your car rocking that you posted in the kill section is part of what has me so confused. It sure looks like your car is excellerating very fast. Maybe there was a problem with the car I drove. When I went from redline 2nd to 3rd I actually got a little bogg before it picked up again. I know you have SMG and, the car I drove was a six speed but, does there sound like something was wrong there?

hey Mtrack, what did you think about the handling of the e46 when compared to your tuned e36? How did the breaking feel?

Originally posted by Mtrack
When I went from redline 2nd to 3rd I actually got a little bogg before it picked up again. I know you have SMG and, the car I drove was a six speed but, does there sound like something was wrong there?

It sounds exactly like DSC kicking in by reducing throttle. Are you sure it was off (warning triangle lit on instrument cluster)?

Yes, the triangle was lit. I held the DSC button down for about 30 seconds to make sure it was fully disabled. I had been waiting so long to try the car that I really had things thought out about how I was going to test it. But yes, it did almost feel like the DSC intervening. Honrswoggler, I can't really say about the braking because I have pagid sport pads and euro floating rotars on my E36. They don't have the initial bite of the stock pads but, when they heat up a little, the pagids really shut the car down. The pads on the E46 were stock and, the braking seemed pretty good, fairly cold. I have X-brace, strut braces, trani enforcers, H&R sports springs Bilstien sport shocks, UUC sway barbarians, adjustable rear lower control arms and AA aluminum toe bushings. I can't even remember what my car handled like stock. I will say that there was no comparison with the untuned E46. My car handles much better. The E46 felt "big" and a little soft to me. Although interested in how it handled I really wanted to check out the engine performance of the new car.

Originally posted by Mtrack
Sticky, I am not dissing your car in any way. The video of your car rocking that you posted in the kill section is part of what has me so confused. It sure looks like your car is excellerating very fast. Maybe there was a problem with the car I drove. When I went from redline 2nd to 3rd I actually got a little bogg before it picked up again. I know you have SMG and, the car I drove was a six speed but, does there sound like something was wrong there?

No offense, but I think it is your shifting. I get nice loud chirps from 1st to 2nd, and from 2nd to 3rd. The car shifts extremely hard, that is what usually impresses people the most.

The car pushes people hard into the seat when I get on it, so I don't understand.

I don't think the car was running right. My friend complemented me on my shifting seeing it was the first time in that car. He also drove the car and was similarly unimpressed. Sticky, I take you at your word, like I say, I saw the video, your car looks like it was shot from a cannon.

Torque is what makes a car "feel" fast on the seat-o-pants-o-meter. I got my 99 Mustang GT to a 13.91 at 100.2 mph at the track. When I got my new Z3 3.0, bone stock, I ran it to a 13.89 at 99.5 mph on OEM tires, then mounted up some drag radials and got it to a 13.65 at 99.1 mph.

My Mustang felt sooooo much faster than my Z3. When they were actually about even, and maybe even the Z3 was a tad quicker.

Why? Torque.

193 rwtq on the stock Z3 vs 270 rwtq on the GT.

The E46 M3 Vert is heavy, it's near 540i territory in terms of weight. And given the fact that it's not a "torquey" motor, that could have contributed to it's lack of "feeling" fast.

And in all truth, an E46 M3 Vert is probably 0-60 in the low 5's. A modded E36 M3 is likely similar in terms of 0-60 type of performance, and given the small difference in torque figures, and the huge weight difference from an E46 M3 Vert and an E36 M3 Coupe, that could what you were "feeling" on the seat-o-pants-o-meter during a quick test drive...

Thanks silverstreak, leave it to a drag racer to explain torque. That's why, for example, the Honda S2000 leaves so much to be desired. It's not the H.P. it's the torque. Of course, not trying to compare it to the E46 M3 in terms of actual power.

Nope, I hear you, I got my friend's S2000 to a 13.66 at the drag strip, but believe me that thing doesn't "feel" nearly that fast. IN fact, I'd say my wife's 03 CL Type S 6 spd "feels" faster than Kenny's S2000, due to the torque difference.

But the best I ever got the wife's car was a 14.1 at 96 mph...

Torque can make anything "feel" deceptively faster, even when it's not...