Just curious - there are a few bmw models that are beginning to become collectible. For example, the 535is (e28) is slowly creeping up the list of desireable cars. Prices are beginning to slowly climb. My question - when do you think the e21 may do the same? Eventually, the cars will become rarer, in which case, everyone begins to appreciate them. 5yrs, 10yrs, ?

I think that 323's are creeping up in price. Regular USA spec 320's will never be truly collectible.

agreed. Not compared to a 323i or even a comperable euro model.

The 323i will get there if it is not already, not so much for the 320i:(

323i ftw

i think the E21 will become a "classic" in the same sense as a vw bug, but on a much smaller scale...meaning, even though there are a few out there that are fully restored/upgraded and look & run very well, there will always be thousands more on the road that are just old piles of junk. i think a car reaches the official "classic" status when all the old junkers are long gone...which, like the bug, will probably never happen to the e21

Good analogy, the e21 crowd has many similarities to the air cooled VW enthusiasts. There are a few REALLY nicely done cars and most owners want nice cars but don't have or are willing to spend the serious $$ to achieve that end-me included. We are mostly a DIY group, few of us pay someone to work on our cars. I'm sure I can think of a few others.

As far as when an e21 becomes truly collectible... I haven't even seen any frost on HELL lately so I don't think it's freezing over anytime soon! Haven't seen any pigs fly either...

ken

The e21 323's will always retail their value, but they may not increase in value.

More importantly to me, mine will remain a really fun car to drive. :D:round:D

I really dont want the E21 to beacome a "classic" just so some average joe car collecter will come around buy it park it and not appreciate what this car is about. In my opinion this model BMW should stay in the hand's of legioners:buttrock that have that twinkle in their eye's when they look upon the E21 and belive in turning the wrench for the sake of keeping "The Dream Alive". I have had this topic cross my mind a few time's and I frighten myself to the point of imagining this car turn into for example a toyota corolla aka AE86 "hachiroku". I just dont want to see this car in the wrong hand's beacuse it will break my heart to see some kid slap a huge wing on a E21:mad.

The e21 323's will always retail their value, but they may not increase in value.

More importantly to me, mine will remain a really fun car to drive. :D:round:D

They have increased in value over the last 5 years. Not by muscle car standards.

as e21 is a well styled car it will go from being from modern and fashionable to dated to a classic and fashionable. same happened to o2 series

The E21 is basically the bastard child of the three series. Ive come accross so many people who say they hate it. In my opinion, the 4 cylinder stock American version will never be held in high regard from a collectible standpoint.
I did have the alpina at a car show this weekend, and a lot of people made comments about it and were amazed to see not only an E21 but an Alpina at the show. Personally I love the look of the car, but Ive pretty much stopped persuing anymore E21's to add to my collection.

I hope it doesn't become classic, but stays just the way it is. With a small community of enthusiasts. As long as parts are still available, thats all I care about.

lets just keep them in the family, on the road and looking good!.

Down here in Atlanta, the 320i is already considered a classic car, but sadly not a collectible classic.

as e21 is a well styled car it will go from being from modern and fashionable to dated to a classic and fashionable. same happened to o2 series

The 02 was an icon in it's time. The 320 was not well received.

Down here in Atlanta, the 320i is already considered a classic car, but sadly not a collectible classic.

By whom? :rolleyes

As far as when an e21 becomes truly collectible... I haven't even seen any frost on HELL lately so I don't think it's freezing over anytime soon! Haven't seen any pigs fly either...

ken

i feel like a monkey is gonna come out of my ass sometime soon after all the work i've been doing... so who knows?

e30 went the 86 way which i have noticed in SoCal.

anything gray market might become collectible while the 320's eventually fade from memory except for the few enthusiasts

I like it this way. I had a bmw tech in an e30 wave me down at a stop light and talk to me about my 320 tonight and there aren't many bmw's that would happen in anymore.

we 320 owners are definitely like the VW beetle owners. they just never go away, are really fun to drive, pretty cheap and reliable, but other than that, only a very select few really customize them.. there are really a TON of lost 320's out there. there are 2 just down the street from me. I was out watering my lawn with my big great dane yesterday, and this lady who dirves a 320i stopped and said "nice dog!" and I repled, nice car! she sadi yeh, its old, but it runs! my car was sitting right there next to her, and she didnt even notice it was the same car... :( oh well. i guess we cant all be enthusiasts.

trev

I only know of 2 e21's in the city where I live - and it's 1 of 4 "major" urban areas in my province and the local capital. One is pretty much fully restored to factory, the other is in hiding while getting work done, and mine is about to enter hiding for the same reason for a very long time.

Anything old (25+yrs) is pretty much a classic here as the salt roads claim them all before their time. Actually it's kind of funny as people here will hold on to cars that were ugly then and ugly now just cause they're older.

OK I would like to make a correction - First if you think the car will not become a collectors item, you are wrong. How many of us have seen rusted out turds for $500 and then when we see a rust free car we all would pay up for it. $3000-5000 is becoming the norm for these cars now in clean and nice condition. They are not a top tier investment car like a 3.0CS or e20 M3 but they are growing in price slowly and I think they are coming into their own. I agree they are the bastard child of BMW but if we start to think and say that these are collectable, people will listen. Hell, the Gremlin and Pinto are getting a following as "Geek Cars" why can't e21's become some nitch group? You would be suprised how many people emailed me on my gray 320i and said "I haven't been able to find one this clean at all" - I am starting to think I need to keep it with the black one since its ultra rust free.

i like your thinking.

mine is completely rust free, running well, pretty good int. i picked it up for 1800, the guy didn't know what he had (i knew it was the origanal and first 3series and told my dad it would be collectable) so we got it.

i think that any rust free car of 25+ years that is fun to drive and looks amazing will become a collectable, or at least become expensive to buy. like a few people have said already, the 323i will be more collectable than the 320i/is

im keeping mine and as soon as i have the space and money to buy more, im buying more, there are at least 5 around my area that are rust free for less than a grand, im picken up as soon as i can, they will eventually become classics and collectable, one day

The prices on ebay for these cars are certainly going up. There are a few now for over $2k that are nothing special. I think more people are starting to notice the E21.

A few variants are worth a fair chunck of change...my Baur is worth 8-10k in it's current unrestored condition. BruceH's baur is likely worth a pile more since it's just about perfect...

The Alpina's are collectable too, too bad the 320i is not so much so.

i think that a car becomes desirable if its rare to begin with or many have not survived over time. e21's have a high survival rate and are incredibly durable. plus US cars built from like 75-85 really were lacking because of emissions. i bet once 2002's become ultra rare then the e21 value will go up. I think of it like old 70's monte carlos because they aren't worth much for money but for track/show/driving is one of the better cars. in time it will go up as many cars do but its value is in the community.

When gas soars $3.50 in the USA, which I predict we'll see very close to that between Thanksgiving and the new year. I'll bet we'll see a ton of buyers looking for the 4 bangers. Truck and the SUVs used as a daily commute won't be able to afford driving their rods on a daily basis. Heck, I have an '03 Tundra p/up, and I don't like to drive it anywhere, except to haul my dirt bikes to riding and to go camping. It delivers 12-14mpg, and sucks $75 at each fill up. So if you're looking to sell, don't price it too low.

with my 323i. It delivers almost twice the gas mileage as my Tundra. Easy to maintain, easy to park, just an overall g00d value in terms of a mode of trans, including insurance rates too. it is an added expense of keeping a second car around, (insurance, registration, inspection), butt I bet for alot of people who owns the SUV and trucks, it's cheaper to get a small 2nd hand car than to pay at the pump.

Prices may slowly climb but so what? Fast enough to keep up with inflation? That's about it. Not much of an investment. Not even worth spending any time thinking about.

All I know is: I haven't seen one other on the roads here since I got mine over a year ago. That makes my E21 rare by definition. (Doesn't mean I can convert that to dollars though.)

I guess all of this boils down to what is considered a "classic".

It doesn't surprise me that you haven't seen any others in the Milwaukee area. I spent a couple years up above Green Bay, with the winter salted roads I'm sure they all rusted out many years ago. You won't see many 70's Toyotas or Datsuns on the road out there either-rare does not mean valuable. It always cracks me up when I see someone asking $10,000 for a 60's Nova 4 door...

Out west we see e21's pretty often, not particularly rare at all.

ken

There are so few 323i left around new england - that most have issues with rust. The winters here are rough.

I have to do so much work to my 323i to get it to restored.

As to when it shall be a classic - who knows? Its already a classic to me.

I guess all of this boils down to what is considered a "classic".

Well, if you go by NJ, anything 25 years or older is a "classic" but the real question is what is "collectable" - Age denotes classic but collectors determine what is "hot" - I found that what was a popular car when new is still popular and collectable years later. Also low production numbers help. I just did a write up of this on my CCA chapters October newletter:
http://www.njbmwcca.org/services/bulletin/archive/complete/200710.pdf

Its definitely a classic, just a classic that isnt worth anything. :) Like I said before, nothing about the 4 cylinder giant bumper American car, makes it very desireable amongst collectors. The most expensive E21 Ive seen sell, is an original B6 at 28,200.00, which is a very nice price, but certainly not the standard for Alpina's. I havent seen another come close to that price.

Stock E21 is never going to be a classic; that's what I always think that way. At least not to most collectors. Alpina B6 2,8 maybe.

You can think that way but when I start buying up clean cars and selling them for stupid money, I will prove my point! :kb

Well, if you go by NJ, anything 25 years or older is a "classic" but the real question is what is "collectable" - Age denotes classic but collectors determine what is "hot" - I found that what was a popular car when new is still popular and collectable years later. Also low production numbers help. I just did a write up of this on my CCA chapters October newletter:
http://www.njbmwcca.org/services/bulletin/archive/complete/200710.pdf

Classic by legal definition and classic to a collector are two different things.

You can think that way but when I start buying up clean cars and selling them for stupid money, I will prove my point! :kb

Get back to us on how that strategy works out for you.

There was a really clean Alpina A4 on german ebay, and it didnt get above 6700 euros. That car is super rare, more so than a b6, and it still didnt sell. That shows you what people think about 4 cylinders in E21's.

I reckon for a car to become a classic it has to get to the point where the vast majority of owners send em to the wreckers cos the cost of getting a early BMW specialist to fix the many quirks of the humble e21 becomes uneconomical...i.e ANY kjet issues.

And lets not forget the BMW tax any regular mechanic will charge for routine stuff, cos its a BMW after all, you can afford it.

5 years after most have gone to the crusher and regular e21 owners have moved to camrys, only the enthusiasts still have em.

I was at a wreckers 2 months ago and the e21 323i i scored a front valence off was rust free and the paint was mint with only 140,000km on it! Too bad all the susp, panels and running gear were gone.

I still felt the urge to rescue the shell and ressurect it in my shed.

The bloke that ran the yard was telling me about another e21 he was in the process of aquiring, another minter in the yard next door complete with bbs wheels and bbs spoilers.

Classic by legal definition and classic to a collector are two different things.

Classic is really any car older then a set date whether its pre 1975 or 25 years or older or whatever you feel it is. The difference is what is collectable. I wouldn't say a 1962 AMC Rambler Ambassador Wagon is collectable but it is a classic. Yet, there is going to be a buyer for that car and the better the condition, the bigger the price.

This is what I do for a living. Most of the cars I sell are Muscle Cars from the 60's. There is an ass for every seat and eventually, everything sells.

There is an ass for every seat and eventually, everything sells.

Amen brother.

There is an ass for every seat and eventually, everything sells.[/quote]

JTFormula is the bomb :devillook , ^ sound's like me when I drink.

I must say in Georgia, you really don't see many e21's. But it's crazy when your screaming by a cop at 85, and a cop pulls you over and ask if he can take pic's of your car because he was been wanting one for a while ,It makes you feel like you own a 1973 Pontiac judge. ( not a clone )

They never made a Judge in 1973. The 73 GTO was based on the Pontiac Ventura which was an X-body (Nova style) and they had 350 engines.

I will be championing the movement to make the e21 collectable - WHOS WITH ME!

This is what I do for a living. Most of the cars I sell are Muscle Cars from the 60's. There is an ass for every seat and eventually, everything sells.

How did you get into the industry? I'm looking for a career change.

Anything here 25yrs and older demands a stupid price due to attrition and salt roads. Few if any of the cars sold in that age range could ever be considered classics though - most left are four door Titanic-sized grocery getters.

I will be championing the movement to make the e21 collectable - WHOS WITH ME!

Count me in! First we have to buy all the E21's we can and.... destroy them!!

Seriously, I agree that you don't see many here in GA. When I bought mine I thought I got a good deal until I started reading how much some of you quys have bought yours for. I am still happy with my purchase and love the car. I think it is very under appreciated.

Count me in! First we have to buy all the E21's we can and.... destroy them!!

I think that will be counter productive. We are supposed to preserve them, not destroy the. Just ask more for the car. Eventually, if someone wants to buy it, they will have to pay!

I think that will be counter productive. We are supposed to preserve them, not destroy the. Just ask more for the car. Eventually, if someone wants to buy it, they will have to pay!
I was thinking supply and demand, your method would work also. It was my poor attempt at some humor. Anyway, you bring up a good point. As long as we offer our cars in good condition dirt cheap, they will never increase in value. It is kind of nice for us as consumers though.

We can have a secret society and offer good prices for people "within"

They never made a Judge in 1973. The 73 GTO was based on the Pontiac Ventura which was an X-body (Nova style) and they had 350 engines.

I will be championing the movement to make the e21 collectable - WHOS WITH ME! Well thanks Dr. Brains, you know what i mean. But i would like to be a part of this movement. How do we do it?

Jacking up the price increases value? Ummm, no. I can go to any of 100,000 backyards around the country and pay $300 for a 320i that stopped running for some silly reason. That means if you ask me $1000 for a good running daily driver with nothing special about it, it's a toss up which is the better value. If you ask me $3000 for it, piss on you I'll fix up the $300 car. This assumes that I am looking for a 320i specifically, which no one is. The 323's are already sought after. Alpina's, Hartge's etc have been collectors items since the day they were made. The basic 320i with long bumpers will inevitably become harder to find, but will never fill collections and never command the ridiculous prices that some are already starting to ask. A perfect stock example with 40k miles is already pretty valuable and will continue to be. The same car with 200k is worth very litte, and even if you restore it won't be worth a whole lot. Modded car prices will always depend on whats done and by whom more than anything, but on the whole any mods ruins the collector value.

Actually, I have noticed that mods on a BMW (late 70s+) have not effected pricing at all and sometimes will increase the value. Example: M10 Powered e21 nice shape $2500 but a M20 powered e21 could sell for $3500.

The cars that will be worth money are ones with little to no rust, CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN good running, well sorted examples. Turds in the backyard or cars with rust and 200k are still cheap and always will be. Its the good cars that we hope will go up in value.

THE MOVEMENT IS ON!:redspot:

Oh, I said it years ago with the 77-81 Firebirds and Trans Ams. I told people to start buying them when they were cheap. A few years back you can buy a cherry 78 T/A for $4500-6000. Now they are selling for $12,000-15,000 and mint restored 10th Annv Cars and Bandit T/As are doing in the $30s!

You can either go with me or against me, the choice is yours!

I didn't buy this car as an investment. Nor should any car be an investment. I want them to stay cheap, as long as parts are available, that's all I care about.

i don't know when. it's allready a classic in my view

its a classic to me also. to the insurance company its something else though. i have to find special insurance as the companies here in south texas won't insure a car over 25 years old because they say they lose money at double hte rate as compared to a newer car.

sounds like crap to me as i've had tons of air cooled vws and other older american cars and never had an issues

Several years ago I seen many 320i driving around , today fewer and fewer,
e21's are becoming a classic , as the number on the road goes down and in peoples hands , the price will go up.;;;lol

Just for reference-
In the past 15 years I have sold 5 e21's, never for less than $2000. They have all been clean, at least fairly well sorted out, and most have been modified. The high was $5800 for my 2.7 320i with a full Alpina suspension and in remarkable condition. This was originally a US spec car, big rear bumper, and the front bumper removed. The other 3 were $2500, one being a Century Turbo modified US spec car.
Use the info how you wish, just personal experience.
--dennis

Just for reference-
In the past 15 years I have sold 5 e21's, never for less than $2000. They have all been clean, at least fairly well sorted out, and most have been modified. The high was $5800 for my 2.7 320i with a full Alpina suspension and in remarkable condition. This was originally a US spec car, big rear bumper, and the front bumper removed. The other 3 were $2500, one being a Century Turbo modified US spec car.
Use the info how you wish, just personal experience.
--dennis

Dennis - I think you have shown the point I was making. Clean cars bring a premium.

Just for reference-
In the past 15 years I have sold 5 e21's, never for less than $2000. They have all been clean, at least fairly well sorted out, and most have been modified. The high was $5800 for my 2.7 320i with a full Alpina suspension and in remarkable condition. This was originally a US spec car, big rear bumper, and the front bumper removed. The other 3 were $2500, one being a Century Turbo modified US spec car.
Use the info how you wish, just personal experience.
--dennis

STRANGER! How ya doing? Shoot me an email and catch up.