About two weeks ago I was driving around town running arons and picked up a very nice Blue S4 on my tall (the newer one with the chrome mirrors). He seemed to be following me waiting for a chance to race. I am always game for a race or good run of any kind. But this guy was a little annoying. :rolleyes: whatever!

So yesterday, I am on my way home from work. Traffic was everywhere and most people driving at this time have no idea what is going on outside their car. I get off the freeway and come down to the first light that sends me on a 3 mile, 2 lane, 45 mph street to my turn off where I live. It is a racers dream, one light at about the mid point and little room for police. I mash this road late at night when I go home. So I'm sitting at the light and look up into my rearview "GASP", chrome mirrors and all. There he is right behind me in the same S4 from weeks earlier. The light is red and he is sitting at 10 and 2, probably with the clutch engadged. So I take it he wants to run. Light turns green, tons of traffic, no room to change lanes and blast off. So he trails me all the way to about 200 yards from the mid point light. I know that most of the traffic gets over and turns at this light, leaving room to take off. I am running in third at about 45 mph with the S4 about 20' behind me. Cars move, I slam the gas and take off with only 500 or so yards before my turn. I look up and see this blue flash cut to the right of me. The S4 blasts past me like I was parked.:mad: I get the whif of spent gases and the sound of turbo windup as he passes. Ok, ok, I know they are fast but WTF. I hit 70 mph and some 6500 RPMs before letting off, plus no room due to cars in our way. I try to catch up and give the thumbs up, and he just blasts off again almost hitting a car on his way. WOW, he must do this often. I think he might need a girlfriend. But I must say I was very impressed. My stock E36 M3 was somewhat sad and needed a good washing to cheer her up. All is good and mod research has begun. Can't get beat that bad again.

Cheers and drive safely,
Joe:wave:

are you auto or manual? a chipped s4 with full exhuast is fast but shouldn't embarrass you. Maybe you got killed by one with upgraded turbos

Did you not read. He said he was in 3rd. He also heard the turbo.
:) :P

Originally posted by oldM3r
are you auto or manual? a chipped s4 with full exhuast is fast but shouldn't embarrass you. Maybe you got killed by one with upgraded turbos

He obviously had mods on his car. For him to chase me around town tells me he is only trying out his mods against cars of the same power (stock that is). His car was lowered, rims, exhaust and probably a whole slew of "bolt on" upgrades. S4s can push well over the 300hp mark with a few upgrades. Plus, my car is stock, but I drive hard and push the car to the edge. He just had WAY more power.

Joe

Joe, I think they come in a variety stages for upgrades, one is around 320 bhp, and the other around 380 bhp. Either one would be formidable competition for your car. No shame in losing some ground to that...

I had a 97 M-3, a great car, and went to a 2000 S-4 when my lease was up due to some Dealer issues. Stock the two cars are just about equal in a straight line with the M-3 having an edge in the corners. I have upgraded the ECU, to what is called Stage 1 (in Audi speak) thats 320 bhp and 365 Ft-lbs. That's a lot more than you have so if you want to stay close get him on a twisty road, thats dry. Enjoy your car it's a good one.

http://www.racemarque.com/

Are you sure you were not racing one of the new S4's with the V8? They come with silver mirrors as you saw. That V8 has over 300 HP and would be quite a contest. However, if you heard turbo's, then it was not a newer one. Just making sure.

Here is some info on the 2003 Model (albeit in wagon form)

http://www.motortrend.com/autoshows/coverage/112_0209_paris02/index.html#2

Modded S4 calls out BMW M3's EVERY week at the street races and so far no one wants any. He runs BFG G-Force Drag Radials on all 4 wheels. Launches like a rocket, but no top end. He's begging me to run the 1/4 mile on him, but I don't have any decent tires...he ran 12 something...don't remember.

I put multiple bus lengths on him from 40-120 with 91 octane fuel and 1.0 Kg/Cm2 boost. (15psi or so...)

when i had my c43 amg i ran against a k04'ed s4....total devistation, even with 290whp and similar tq he RAPED me, stage 3 k04 setup...but it made me feel better when he told me he kills 996 turbos all the time :)

Originally posted by Robbie Robinson
IStock the two cars are just about equal in a straight line with the M-3 having an edge in the corners. I

An edge. Schit, I've destroyed many an S4 at my local track, in various forms of modification. Even with a long, 1/4 mile front straight and an 1/8 mile back straight, high hp S4's still cannot hang. Not even remotely. They just plead no lo contendre.

Straight line and luxury, an S4 wails on an M3 easily. . . but I live for the apex.

Originally posted by frayed
An edge. Schit, I've destroyed many an S4 at my local track, in various forms of modification. Even with a long, 1/4 mile front straight and an 1/8 mile back straight, high hp S4's still cannot hang. Not even remotely. They just plead no lo contendre.

Straight line and luxury, an S4 wails on an M3 easily. . . but I live for the apex.

And whats your "local track"? Maybe we should get together some time. :buttrock :buttrock :buttrock

Absolutely.

Texas World Speedway is my local track. . . as long as you call 100 mile drive local. :)

Texas Motosport Ranch is also a well used track, but I sorta like the combination of high speed, butt-puckering 135 mph corners, and the slow speed carousel. TMR is more of a 'finesse' track, slower with tighter, more off camber turns.

OTOH, I can get on TMR during the week pretty much at will. I have a friend in Dallas who is a TMR member (this track is run contry-club style, and members get one pretty much at will during the week).

TWS suits my driving style well. :)

Originally posted by frayed
Absolutely.

Texas World Speedway is my local track. . . as long as you call 100 mile drive local. :)

Texas Motosport Ranch is also a well used track, but I sorta like the combination of high speed, butt-puckering 135 mph corners, and the slow speed carousel. TMR is more of a 'finesse' track, slower with tighter, more off camber turns.

OTOH, I can get on TMR during the week pretty much at will. I have a friend in Dallas who is a TMR member (this track is run contry-club style, and members get one pretty much at will during the week).

TWS suits my driving style well. :)


Sounds like a lot of fun. I'm really trying to get out there, it seems the events fill up too fast though. I am looking forward to having someone really teach me how to drive my Audi S4 :devillook

Plenty of good instructors with the Driver's Edge or the TWS Motorsports Club.

In the S4 world, I think it's Lance Pace from houston who does the most tracking in these parts. You may want to ping him on car setup and so forth.

Last I knew, he was pulling 2.08's or somesuch around that track.

Lance is a good guy.

Know where I can find a schedual of the next Drivers Edge? I have just now begun to "race" my car. I have begun attending Auto-x's here once a month. I am very close to finishing the motor on my car, then i can finish off the suspension and brakes.

Thanks for your help. :buttrock :buttrock

i love S4s. the best thing about them is that, unlike a high powered supra (which can sometimes be a bit tricky around town) the S4 is probably the most civilized high power turbo car. now if only audi could fix that little problem of the 2.7t engine self destructing over 30,000 miles........

I don't know. I test drove a chipped/exhaust S4 and it did not feel very fast nor did it pull hard. I was not impressed at all. I could hardly wait to get back into my ///M. I also found the pedal position to be horrible,,,but that's just me.

Just my the record I am not positive the car still had the chip, it was at a dealership and one salesman said it was chipped and the other said the put the stock chip back in.

My friend was interested in buying it buy said he liked my ///M ten times more.

i h8 kkk turbos


well, at least the k03's


a "chipped", intake/exhaust basic bolton s4 shouldnt be "thatfast"
.....


i havent seen how they perform at 120+ tho...

jus basic drags and highway throttle blipz

The S4's biggest enemy is it's weight. Even with "big power" it takes a lot to get that heft moving. Bone stock, the S4 weighs more than a 530i...

So it takes quite a bit to make that car THAT fast...

I've test driven a S4 before, and it felt a hell of a lot faster than my M3 at 0-30 mph. The S4 has a lot more low end torque stock than my car. I didn't take the S4 that fast b/c it was a test drive at a dealership, but from what I've read the M3 is faster than the S4 at higher speeds. I'm planning on getting rid of my M3 and getting a B5 S4 once I pay off my car, my car stunningly breaks down, or when S4 prices go down when the 2004 S4 comes out. The S4 has a lot of things that I'm looking for in a car. Luxury, performance, 4-doors, AWD for New England winters, & Turbos. It probably sounds like I'm knocking my car, but I do think that my car looks a lot nicer and more unique. Also the prestige of having an M3 is far greater than a S4. Most non-car people can't tell the difference between an A4 and S4. Plus I'm sure my car handles a lot better at high speeds and is better at the race track, and the S4 is pretty heavy.

I say S4 is pretty fast if you tune them well...

Originally posted by AudiS4
S4s are slow, fat pigs. Funny that i have raced numerous M3s, M5s and 330i and have never lost to one. Wonder whats wrong with all those bimmers i have raced. Oh ya, they were all really shitty drivers.:D

Well I guess a turbo and 320 hp helps in hiding "shitty driver" traits. I never really liked Audi's, always seemed like the forgotten "German" car. But it seems that since they have done so well on the race scene (professional that is) in the past few years, they really have begun to produce nice road cars. But with a lot of power you can be a "shitty driver" and get away with it...literally. I was impressed with this guys S4, it was well modified from the "fly-by". I didn't push too hard or even down shift, assuming he was gonna go balls to the wall. Don't really care to race Audi's much, but times are changing. Audi's seem to be a well worth KILL! Next time I will have to tighten my "shitty driver" skills and push the car a little harder. The Audi's are finally worth racing.

Cheers,
Joe:evil2

Anyone that says an S4 is a slow.. fat pig obviously has never driven a properly running one. Also, anyone who thinks an E36 M3, or anything with an S50/52 engine is faster in a straight line at any speed than a chipped/exhaust S4.. also must have driven one that wasnt running properly.

My S4 will pull on M5's and has in the past. I can tell you my S4 is faster, because I can drive my dads M5 when i please.

You guys are correct in the fact the E36 is probably faster around a race track than an S4.

^yup

Originally posted by Ryan-N-Austin
My S4 will pull on M5's and has in the past. I can tell you my S4 is faster, because I can drive my dads M5 when i please.

I don't believe that for a second unless you have stage 3-4. Unless you have stage 3/4 the only place you will pull an M5 is on the launch.

And yea the S4 is a pig compared to an E36 M3, it weighs about 400 pounds more and doesn't handle anywhere near an M3, so yea, it could be considered a pig.

All i know is that the chipped/exhaust S4 I drove did not feel very fast, maybe it was fast but it certainly did not feel like it. It also had no pull on the freeway. The dealer said the car was owned by someone who owns/run Audiworld so I think its probably tuned properly. It is possible the chip has been taken out, one salesman said yes the other said no. I couldn't wait to get back into my ///M after that drive.

I know there are fast S4's because I have seen a video of one that hangs with a viper.

generalization rule #34,
you can make ANYTHING fast with $

I guess it's all a matter of perspective, as in, I guess it depends on what you mean by "fast" and "slow"... :devillook

chipped/exhaust'ed S4 should pull at least 3-4 CL's on an E36 M3. It should definitely hang with or slightly pull on an e46 M3 (depending on the aggressiveness of the chip). When you throw the downpipe in the mix, off the line, it's not funny ... I believe a supercharged M3 that puts down 320+ should slightly, slightly pull on a stage 2+ S4. I mean, maybe centimeters/inches, and if you get caught sleeping, you will not catch them until you are well into the mid-100's.

I rode in a couple of S4's -- they felt really fast, especially down low. Then again, I rode in a 325is, and I thought that thing felt REALLY fast, so, I think most cars are fast and peppy. :D

But, then again, if I'm caught sleeping against an E46 M3 ... he'll put some good distance on me pretty quickly. It's so hard from a roll -- unless you line up and honk three times in bumblefcuk Md on an empty highway early on a sunday morning with at least 5 other cars. Two of them way down the road watching for any traffic/cops.

From a roll, you don't know if you jumped early, he jumped early ... usually SOMEONE jumps early ... :D

Originally posted by cam540
I don't believe that for a second unless you have stage 3-4. Unless you have stage 3/4 the only place you will pull an M5 is on the launch.

And yea the S4 is a pig compared to an E36 M3, it weighs about 400 pounds more and doesn't handle anywhere near an M3, so yea, it could be considered a pig.

All i know is that the chipped/exhaust S4 I drove did not feel very fast, maybe it was fast but it certainly did not feel like it. It also had no pull on the freeway. The dealer said the car was owned by someone who owns/run Audiworld so I think its probably tuned properly. It is possible the chip has been taken out, one salesman said yes the other said no. I couldn't wait to get back into my ///M after that drive.

I know there are fast S4's because I have seen a video of one that hangs with a viper.


Maybe you should take a look at http://www.s4biturbo.com/timeslips.cgi

Remember, an S4 with [Chip], [Downpipes], [Intake], [catback] it considered stage2+. Thats what my car WAS before i upgraded the turbos to K04's. Stage2+ cars WILL pull on an M5 all day long. Take a look at the trap speed. 108+mph. Thats on an AWD car, meaning, on the highway, its capable of beating carts that trap 109-110.

Like i said before, you obviously drove a car that either had a loose I/C hose, or a torn throttle body boot (common problem on B5 S4's), or bad Bybass valves.

I agree, a stage '2+' may beat an M5 in the 1/4 or off the line. But when you say 'pull on an M5 all day long' I consider that highway runs or from a roll, in which case I think the M5 would pull. If a car has a slower 'et' but a faster trap that generally means the car is faster from a roll or highway run.

Besides, comparing a stage 2 or higher S4 to a stock E36 M3 is like apples to oranges. Why don't you compare your stage 2+ to a turbo or s/c M3.

I don't know about all day long. if you know turbo you would know that turbo car does not handles high boost well for an extended period of time. At a local race track most high pressure turbo cars have to let their car cool down after a couple of laps while the NA cars will just continue having fun. So I guess the M5 would be the car to pull all day long:D

Originally posted by Ryan-N-Austin

Stage2+ cars WILL pull on an M5 all day long.

[/B]

Originally posted by r6e36
I don't know about all day long. if you know turbo you would know that turbo car does not handles high boost well for an extended period of time. At a local race track most high pressure turbo cars have to let their car cool down after a couple of laps while the NA cars will just continue having fun. So I guess the M5 would be the car to pull all day long:D


eh, another generalization....

if they spend money on the right things, yes it "can" be done...

i mean, there are such things as turbo racecars =) (which run all 'raceday' long)...

i.e. Turbo F1 Cars back in the day...
i miss those days

Originally posted by wolfsburg02
i love S4s. the best thing about them is that, unlike a high powered supra (which can sometimes be a bit tricky around town) the S4 is probably the most civilized high power turbo car. now if only audi could fix that little problem of the 2.7t engine self destructing over 30,000 miles........

Sorry, I don't consider a S4 a high power turbo car. 350-400whp isn't a high powered car. When you get into the 500-600 range that's what I consider high power. It makes alright power, but every S4 I have ever seen gets walked on the top end.

And I disagree about the Supra also (from experience). My car feels stock until it gets on boost, then it pulls like a freight train. I drive it to work every day on 530rwhp pump gas trim @ 17psi.
I even have 264 Cams and it idles perfectly.

BTW, I saw that blue S4 last night. He runs BFG G-Force Drag Radials. He can launch like a mofo and pull under 2.0 60 ft times, but top end aint shit. I blew by him last night trying to get him to bite but he wouldn't do it.

Again, matter of perspective as to what is "fast" and "slow"... :D

Originally posted by cam540
I agree, a stage '2+' may beat an M5 in the 1/4 or off the line. But when you say 'pull on an M5 all day long' I consider that highway runs or from a roll, in which case I think the M5 would pull. If a car has a slower 'et' but a faster trap that generally means the car is faster from a roll or highway run.

Besides, comparing a stage 2 or higher S4 to a stock E36 M3 is like apples to oranges. Why don't you compare your stage 2+ to a turbo or s/c M3.

We're not comparing the M3.. you and I are talking about the M5. Given the trap speed of a Stage 2+ S4, reguardless of e.t., it will walk an M5. "even on the top end" Sheesh, some of you BMW guys will never admit there *might* be something faster than you. Just remember, The numbers never lie, and there will ALWAYS be something faster.

Wow way too much technology involved in these cars, im readin this stuff and im lost. Im used to simple 4 bangers like my honda. I do know a little bit bout these cars. Older is better.

Ryan, you don't make sense.

AWD does nothing for freeway runs!!

Explain how a car with a slower trap speed will pull a car with a faster trap speed on the freeway. If your S4 traps at 108 and the M5 traps at 109-110 you will get walked on freeway runs.

Let me break it down for you. Slower traps speeds usually means good launch and laggin at higher speeds. Faster traps means the car doesn't launch as well, but pulls harder at speed.

And yes, I believe this did start as a comparison of S4 vs. E36 M3. I admit cars are faster, of course there will always be faster cars then BMW.

I second the apples to oranges comparison above. S4s with 6k in mods wail on stock M3s. M3s with 6k in mods wail on stock S4s. Either car has the capability to make a HUGE amount of power. S4s are not cheap to mod past the standard boltons+chip. The cost of swapping the turbos and associated hardware from stock is comparable to installing a supercharger on an M3. The power output for both is in the 400 hp neighborhood. Both cars can be contenders in the big power games when tweaked properly. Pick the one you prefer and drive.

Since when does an M5 trap 109-110? The highest trapping M5 i have seen is 106. Most are running low 13's @ around 106.

Originally posted by cam540
And yea the S4 is a pig compared to an E36 M3, it weighs about 400 pounds more and doesn't handle anywhere near an M3, so yea, it could be considered a pig.

I love how anything that doesn't live up to the handling of an E36 M3 is "a pig." :laugh

This notion is patently absurd, folks! The E36 M3 is one of the best handling cars ever brought to these shores (in stock form, we're talking). Just because some other car, XXXXX, doesn't handle as well, it doesn't mean they are a pig. A pig, handling-wise, would be a late-70's station wagon.

If the E36 M3 is a gazelle, then perhaps an S4 would be a regular deer -- still nimble, though perhaps not quite as much so as the M3.

Perspective, people... c'mon.

I have no idea what an M5 traps, I just assumed by your post a day or two ago it trapped at 109-110. Regardless, you said an S4 that traps a 108 will pull cars(on the freeway) that trap at 109-110. So you will please explain that logic to me.

The whole "my car is cooler" argument is just soooooo lame. This thread started out with reasonable commentary, now it's stupid.

Come on Audi dudes, did some unknown S4 with some unknown mods really run a 109mph trap speed at some unknown location with some unknown conditions? Great. By the way, S4s run about 94mph trap stock. Are you so ingorant as to believe that no M5 has run that fast? How about E36 M3s. Look at the trap speeds that some of the E36 M3s note in this thread:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86621&highlight=trap

How about an S4 with a 115+mph trap speed? I searched the Audiworld forums, I couldn't find one.

Don't get me wrong, this is not a "BMWs are cooler" message, I'm just making a counterpoint to an argument that was not founded in reality.

Most people just enjoy their cars, some have short man complexes that make them need to be the fastest. Isn't it funny that it's usually not the people with the fastest cars that have the complex?

:95

Originally posted by AudioMan
Are you sure you were not racing one of the new S4's with the V8? They come with silver mirrors as you saw. That V8 has over 300 HP and would be quite a contest. However, if you heard turbo's, then it was not a newer one. Just making sure.

This was exactly what I was about to say. I saw a new review on the S4, and though it's a formidable opponent, the M3 is still faster. Automobile mags March 03' had a full write up about it. The M3 still trounces the S4's numbers, but the turbo S4 you raced was modded to walk you like that.

LOL .. you're calling me ignorant? Class is in session kiddie.. please sit down.

First lesson of the day - No S4 traps 115+ Mph? Hrmmm I guess this video was photo shopped. http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/gallery/slvrbullet/awe_slvrbulletS4_20020418.wmv (http://)


Second lesson of the day - No other fast S4's huh? Damn... http://www.s4biturbo.com/timeslips.cgi (http://)

Third and final lesson of the day -
Blitzkrieg Beast Stock chip, Stock exhaust
1.920 60'
8.852 1/8 mile
13.816 1/4 mile et
98.40 1/4 mile mph


Glad i could school you today. See you tomorrow.

Originally posted by M3Inline6
This was exactly what I was about to say. I saw a new review on the S4, and though it's a formidable opponent, the M3 is still faster. Automobile mags March 03' had a full write up about it. The M3 still trounces the S4's numbers, but the turbo S4 you raced was modded to walk you like that.

And no... It was not possible he raced the new B6 S4, because there are less than a hand full driving around in the US right now. Not to mention it looks so similar to the B6 A4... the un-trained eye wouldnt even recognize it as an S4.

Originally posted by Ryan-N-Austin
LOL .. you're calling me ignorant? Class is in session kiddie.. please sit down.

First lesson of the day - No S4 traps 115+ Mph? Hrmmm I guess this video was photo shopped. http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/gallery/slvrbullet/awe_slvrbulletS4_20020418.wmv (http://)


Second lesson of the day - No other fast S4's huh? Damn... http://www.s4biturbo.com/timeslips.cgi (http://)

Third and final lesson of the day -
Blitzkrieg Beast Stock chip, Stock exhaust
1.920 60'
8.852 1/8 mile
13.816 1/4 mile et
98.40 1/4 mile mph


Glad i could school you today. See you tomorrow.

Teacher you need to learn how to read. I said I couldn't find any 115MPH trap speed on the the audiworld forums, not that obscure website you "schooled" me with. I NEVER said "No S4 traps 115+ Mph" so don't misquote me. To follow up, who said "No other fast S4s" because that wasn't me either? What a coincidence that the video is also the only car on that short list that claims >115mph trap speed. You obviously didn't understand my opening cynical comment as you supported it with you're obscure trap speed find. That car is (was) a one-off development car for AWE http://www.awe-tuning.com/. You can't even purchase that kit or the parts to make it from them on their site.

Honestly if comparing apples to oranges makes you happy then fine.

I've been beaten by modded S4s in my stock M3. You can certainly make them fast and I think they're cool. I considered puchasing one. They are not substantially faster or slower in the 1/4 mile dollar for dollar in mods.

More importantly, let's see your car and how tall are you? :biglaughb

Originally posted by Icecream ///Man
Teacher you need to learn how to read. I said I couldn't find any 115MPH trap speed on the the audiworld forums, not that obscure website you "schooled" me with. I NEVER said "No S4 traps 115+ Mph" so don't misquote me. To follow up, who said "No other fast S4s" because that wasn't me either? What a coincidence that the video is also the only car on that short list that claims >115mph trap speed. You obviously didn't understand my opening cynical comment as you supported it with you're obscure trap speed find. That car is (was) a one-off development car for AWE http://www.awe-tuning.com/. You can't even purchase that kit or the parts to make it from them on their site.

Honestly if comparing apples to oranges makes you happy then fine.

I've been beaten by modded S4s in my stock M3. You can certainly make them fast and I think they're cool. I considered puchasing one. They are not substantially faster or slower in the 1/4 mile dollar for dollar in mods.

More importantly, let's see your car and how tall are you? :biglaughb

My car ran 12.78 @ 107 in stage2+ form.. Now that i have the K04's, i just need the fuel system.. and low 12's/high11's here i come..

I'm 6'1.. any more questions? :rolleyes:

ooh, im 6'5"! I wonder how my 325i will do against a modded s4!

Originally posted by Patrick33
ooh, im 6'5"! I wonder how my 325i will do against a modded s4!

:buttrock :buttrock :buttrock

hey teacher, you still haven't taught me the lesson of how a S4 with a 108 trap will walk a car on the freeway with 109-110 traps.

I'm waiting wise guy!!

Sounds like you've got a fast S4. Now find a modded ///M and see how you do. Plenty of 'em here to run.

Patrick33-

Give it a try if you want, just have fun. There's always someone faster whether its a BMW or an Audi or a 74 Chevy NoGo. I would guess you don't have short man complex.

Originally posted by cam540
hey teacher, you still haven't taught me the lesson of how a S4 with a 108 trap will walk a car on the freeway with 109-110 traps.

I'm waiting wise guy!!

An AWD car that traps 108 in a PROPERLY driven 1/4 mile (sub 1.9 60') can usually take a 2wd car on the highway that traps 109-110.

Say you have 2 cars..

an AWD car, and a 2WD car, both trap 108 in the 1/4... the AWD has a lower ET..

Because of the AWD car's lower ET.. he has less time to build up the speed..

Its a known fact that "generally" a lower ET will yeild a lower trap speed than a high ET...

There for.. A car that traps 108.. with a GOOD et for that specific vehicle.. is capable of beating a 2wd car on the highway that traps 109-110

WOW! I posted this Kill Story like two weeks ago and you guys are still talking about it. That is WAY cool, strange, but WAY cool. Have fun "schooling" each other to death and never reaching an agreement...it is ALL fun guys...ALL fun. Let's just say German's make good cars and be done with it.

Joe (original poster of 'Destroyed by an S4')

Originally posted by Brad D.
BTW, I saw that blue S4 last night. He runs BFG G-Force Drag Radials. He can launch like a mofo and pull under 2.0 60 ft times, but top end aint shit. I blew by him last night trying to get him to bite but he wouldn't do it.

How did the Blue S4 that I raced here in the Bay Area, that lives down the street from me, get all the way to LA for you to race him??? Are you refering to another Blue S4 that you saw/raced? Or were you local here in the Bay? I see his car a lot. It sports OZ Superlagerra's in 19"....same car?:dunno

nope sorry...not buying it. Nice try though!!

Originally posted by cam540
nope sorry...not buying it. Nice try though!!

Then you have a lot to learn about drag racing son. Go read up, then post again. Thanks. :boobies :boobies :boobies

again, nice try!

But Ryan -- your analysis is true with unequal driver's. Given equal drivers ... trap speeds are an indication of the car's power. Thus if a stage II S4 traps at 106-108 -- it will not have more power than a vehicle trapping at 110. That's just physics man :D

What you stated is definitely true; but, that's answering the question why someone has a higher ET but higher trap speed than when the person gets a lower ET and a lower trap speed. Given equal drivers, trap speed is the penultimate of a vehicle's power.

Originally posted by NoSoup4U
But Ryan -- your analysis is true with unequal driver's. Given equal drivers ... trap speeds are an indication of the car's power. Thus if a stage II S4 traps at 106-108 -- it will not have more power than a vehicle trapping at 110. That's just physics man :D

What you stated is definitely true; but, that's answering the question why someone has a higher ET but higher trap speed than when the person gets a lower ET and a lower trap speed. Given equal drivers, trap speed is the penultimate of a vehicle's power.

Exactly! That's why a 13 sec civic that traps 98-99 MPH (like my 2000 hatch) would still get walked on the freeway by an SS or WS6 that runs 13's like my car, because of higher trap speeds. I would get walked after the top of 4th gear!

Originally posted by NoSoup4U
But Ryan -- your analysis is true with unequal driver's. Given equal drivers ... trap speeds are an indication of the car's power. Thus if a stage II S4 traps at 106-108 -- it will not have more power than a vehicle trapping at 110. That's just physics man :D

What you stated is definitely true; but, that's answering the question why someone has a higher ET but higher trap speed than when the person gets a lower ET and a lower trap speed. Given equal drivers, trap speed is the penultimate of a vehicle's power.


so what if a 150 hp civic traps 90 mph on ok tires,
vs. another civic with 600hp and CRAP tires that runs a SLOWER 1/4 and has like a 50mph trap.
(disregard this statement if it applies to the example above, with the 2 cars running equivalent 60' 's)



trap speeds are more than an indication of a car's power...

w/ "equal" drivers etc,
a lower or higher trap can be b/c of gearing, weight, aerodynamics, power (figures, curves, and rpms), or even the amnt of stickers "utilized" on the car.

OK, I am so lost. :(

Can someone explain Trap Speeds and the nubmers you all are throwing around?

Thanks. :)

so what if a 150 hp civic traps 90 mph on ok tires,

I see this one as a deviance. :D

I agree though computech -- there are a number of factors that can be attributable to different trap speeds. But, let me ask you this now. If you have two S4's .. one traps 105, one traps 108. Which one has more power and should win on the highway? (Assuming equal drivers, same gearing, same size tires, etc.). One would argue the 108 mph S4 has more power, right?

Plus, wait a minute, then what good are 1/4 mile times then?

power (figures, curves, and rpms),

I mean, to get a good 1/4 mile time , you have to know where your max torque is, where to shift, etc ... isn't the 1/4 mile representative of the car's POWER? (let's discount driver skill for a moment though).

I guess, I'm confused as to why awd, fwd, rwd should make a difference in this analysis. If both cars are moving on a highway, a car trapping 108 should not keep walking on a car that is trapping 110 ... (assuming equal driving skills). What am I missing?

Are you guys stating that trap speeds don't mean anything, because all of the factors that you listed? So, a stock S4 trapping 101 mph can tell E46 M3 owners, so what if you guys are trapping 104 mph? I have awd, I will pull on you on the highway? Even though on paper you have 250 hp vs. 333 hp, and the power/weight ratio favors the M3?

I'm not exactly sure of the power/weight ratio of a 108 mph trapping S4 vs. a E39 M5; but, 394 hp/maybe 4000 lbs vs. say, 350 hp/3800 lbs? That still favors the M5.

NoSoup4u: Bro, some will never understand, so it's like talking to a wall!

If I may...

I think what he was trying to say is the following.....

Lets take these imaginary numbers for arguments sake

STG2+ S4 = 12.7@108mph
E39 M5 = 13.2@110mph

essentially what his argument was (I think), is that the M5 takes 13.2 seconds from 0-110mph and the S4 in Question takes 12.7 seconds from 0-108mph. So one "could" argue that the S4 "could" still keep up or pull on the M5.

However using the above numbers...I would be inclined to say an M5 trapping at 110 would be faster for the following reason...

The S4's time advantage would be mostly through the first 2 gears.... so say that S4 ripped through 60mph in like 4 sec flat and the M5 took 4.9seconds. The time differential decreases as the speed rises. So it would be tough to tell exactly WHO WOULD PULL ON WHO on the highway....there are too many variables and this is all retarded speculation. Someone just make some 70-130mph timed runs and compare the two....or lets set up a highway run....ANYTHING but this. Cause there are way too many variables, and its definately NOT SIMPLE physics...physics? YES....Simple? NO!

Now lets look at real numbers because we've been using an M5 trapping at 110.....from what I've seen M5s trap in the 106-108mph range not 110mph. Those 2mph make a huge difference...

From what I've seen...a Stage2+ S4 is pretty beastly on the highway....they really pull like freight trains. I could however see the M5 pull ahead in 6th assuming its no longer limited. M5s pull like work hoses up top, where as a K03'd S4 will start to run out of steam after 6K....but until then it won't be easy. Bottom line if you had a 5 mile copless straightaway and a speed unlimited M5...the M5 would cover the 5 miles quicker than a K03'd S4....but it would by no means be an easy fight...and at realistic high speeds the I believe S4 would be infront.


I hope ANY of this made sense....

Point of View:
I'm a former M3 owner, current Jetta 1.8T owner, future B5 S4 owner....Love em all....I am non-biased, but at the end of the day, my heart will always be with BMW :love1 ...they just haven't made an M3 I felt was worth buying (for what I want in a car). The S4 is a GREAT machine, will be buying one at year end.

Pete

PS> If anyone knows of a babied 6sp S4 coming off of lease in the next 6 months or so...shot me an email.

if u want a good comparison of all equal cars EXCEPT for power...

u dont do the 1/4 mile (or i guess u could, perfect launch etc etc),

***but it would be better to rather race from a roll (same speed, same gear)...***

1/4 mile time just adds the variables...

w/ this example, the car with more power is faster.



but if u want a better comparison,
there's a dynomometer :mdrbig

fun fact,

my friends supra ran a 14.5 @ 110mph



tee hee hee

Bora20VT

Nosoup4U - Your analysis is pretty much correct, except you forgot one thing. 60' Times. The reason an S4 is able to get into the 12's with less power than an M5 is because of 60' times. 60' has so much effect on your total e.t. When was the last time you saw an M5 pull a 1.7 60'? When was the last time you saw an M5 pull a sub 2.0 60'? :stickoutt

Anyway -

Bora20VT hit the nail on the head. I'm sure the M5 could probably win the standing 5 mile race because of the torque a 5.?? liter V8 has. The 2.7 liters of the S4 just doesnt have the torque, even at full song, to pull the tall ratios as well as the M5. It would still pull on it on the high way, as those 5-6 gears arent *generally* used. :devillook

Now it's my turn to give a lesson. AWD are not an optimal configuration for a drag race. Drag race is all about power to weight ratio. So if you are into drag race and you are driving a AWD car you are a fool
Class dismissed:biglaughb :biglaughb :biglaughb

Hahahahaha... You're kidding right? Wow... if you arent.. thats the most ignorant thing i have ever heard.


Weight and power are NOTHING if you cant get it to the ground. I'm not talking Top Fuel dragsters here.. I'm talking street cars.

Originally posted by Ryan-N-Austin
Hahahahaha... You're kidding right? Wow... if you arent.. thats the most ignorant thing i have ever heard.


Weight and power are NOTHING if you cant get it to the ground. I'm not talking Top Fuel dragsters here.. I'm talking street cars.

Well yes and no. I think what he meant by his post is that it's not recommended to drag an AWD car. The drivetrain suffers greatly when you do drag and AWD vehicle, and once broken, they are expensive to fix. Yes they do offer an advantage off the line, but again, it really isn't recommended.

Originally posted by M3Inline6
Well yes and no. I think what he meant by his post is that it's not recommended to drag an AWD car. The drivetrain suffers greatly when you do drag and AWD vehicle, and once broken, they are expensive to fix. Yes they do offer an advantage off the line, but again, it really isn't recommended.


I dont think he's saying that at all. I think the guy knows nothing about drag racing. If drag racing was all about power to weight ratio.. wouldnt a car with 1,000 hp and 1,000 lb race weight with driver dominate everything? Got traction?

No I think he does know what he is talking about! A 3600-3800 pound car with awd is not ideal for drag racing, and as much as you like to think so the S4 is not the best car in the world. Yea they can be built fast but so can anything, look at some of the AA M3's, guarantee there is not an S4 out there that can compete with one of those.

STFU!!

Originally posted by cam540
No I think he does know what he is talking about! A 3600-3800 pound car with awd is not ideal for drag racing, and as much as you like to think so the S4 is not the best car in the world. Yea they can be built fast but so can anything, look at some of the AA M3's, guarantee there is not an S4 out there that can compete with one of those.

STFU!!

Who said anything about the S4 being the best car out there? Your argument pale is running dry, so you're putting words in my mouth? :rolleyes:

Maybe you should go back and read the above threads...

And dont try to convince me that an E36 M3 is a better drag racing platform than an S4. :orangesle :orangesle

Alright, first of all, cool it, some of you. :cop:

Next, comptech you are way off, 1/4 mile is a good measure of not only the car's power to weight ratio (traps), but also driver skill (ET).

And, I think it should be pointed out, something about traps and ET's and traction and how they are related. Often times good ET's from a good launch, which means good traction, and in those scenarios often times the traps pay the price in that they are a tad lower.

More traction = more friction = slightly lower traps.

Now, in my car, I run 1.6x 60' times on DR's. My ET's are in the 11.7's range and my traps around 115-116 mph.

Now, you run me at the track from a dead stop and only race me 1320', my results are well documented.

But you run me on the street, on my OEM tires not my DR's, and from a roll- many variables to consider.

I'm willing to bet that my car sans DRs at the track would trap closer to 117-118 mph. My ET would likely pay the price and come back in the low 12's, most likely.

Now, AWD helps the launch, sure, but if you're running the same exact tires at the track and on the street, your traps remain the same, so to speak. Power to weight ratios don't change.

If 2 cars run at the track, one runs 110 mph traps, and 1 runs 108 mph traps. Take both of those cars on the street, and run them from a roll, if you can match up speeds and equate for gearing and torque peaks, etc (see what I mean about too many factors for running from a roll to be a reliable measure of anything significant?), the 110 mph car will win.

Why? Cuz the traps measure the power to weight ratio and with the traction being the same on the 2 cars from track to street, the 110 mph car has a more favorable power to weight ratio.

Again, my car on OEM tires will trap higher than it will with DR's, but if I don't change my tires, and go run some guy from a roll, and my car has a 115.6 mph trap and his has 117 mph trap, he will get me.

Put on street tires on my car, and it would likely be closer.

Make sense?

Originally posted by Icecream ///Man
[B
Patrick33-

Give it a try if you want, just have fun. There's always someone faster whether its a BMW or an Audi or a 74 Chevy NoGo. I would guess you don't have short man complex. [/B]

Huh? I think you overlooked my sarcasm.:dunno