Ok, so i take the long way home today after just finishing having added my o2 sensor for the air/fuel meter and getting the oil temperatue gauge up and running. I look in my rearview and see a 97 or so black golf with a front europlate speeding up trying to catch me so i slow down a bit. I can hear the intake and see the exhaust.....the car was also lowered on the stock 15/16 inch rims. It turned out to be a 5spd GTI VR6 (2.8L).

I wait for him at the stop sign then we both take off. I engaged the clutch first and then gunned it (didn't wanna waste rubber on a golf). His clutch slipped so i kinda "waited up" for him. He regained friction and we were both off. I had perfect shifts all the way up into 4th. He was right along side of the me the ENTIRE TIME. I might've gotten like half a car length on him at about 100mph or so.

Again, we get to another stop sign and this time he waits for me since I got caught up in traffic. Again, both of us engage the clutch first and then take off. This time took it up to about 120 or so where i BARELY pulled a car on him. We slowed down and while cruising....i asked what he had.....
"its a vr6..2.8L"
"no shit man...i can read...what're you running?"
"oh, just an intake and exhaust"
"same here...u running a chip?"
"nope"
"good race...take it easy" and i waved the thumbs up and had to make a left turn coming up.

I went home furious as to why the hell i didn't spank that thing. Was I supposed to? How fast are those things anyways? The guy obviously knew how to drive/change gears properly. I dont understand how I can keep up with some m3s.....often spank mustang GTs....and even some 300zx's.....but then a freaggin assed-out looking vr6 gti golf and keep up with me right up into triple digits. Can anyone give me some words of consolidatioin? :rolleyes:

When he said he had an "Intake" he meant a supercharger!!

Feel better?

Why didn't you go all out the second time around? If he was taking off from the line as fast as he could and you were waiting for him, that leaves you seriously behind. Next time just slip the clutch at 3000 and take off like a bat outta hell. You can't get the best drag times without slipping the clutch a bit.

You still beat him!! :D :cool: :D

JamesM

I'd actually doubt there's a supercharger.

Those GTI's don't weigh much, and with just a bit of work to the 2.8L, they can pull pretty well.

It's not just horsepower and torque, but also weight that's a major factor. On the track I encountered a guy (who's a really good shoe, by the way) driving a new, off the lot, GTI. All he had were R-compounds, and he was sticking to some very fast cars on the track. On a tighter, more technical track, he would have been past them.

Pat

Stock he woulld be running with
204hp at 6200 270Nm at 3200
so not bad that he could keep up with you.

That sounds about right Saeed. The GTI's arent that slow... you have to take into consideration, drivers skill...
I can drive my m3 and spank anyone that i race (im somewhat selective with the people i race) and then my brother can drive my m3 and lose to a volkswagon vanagon... Its just cause he cant drive for Sh*t...
The 2.8 liter GTI should be about as fast as the 328i stock considering almost equal drivers...

Hi Saeed: I have never figured out what's a 333i ? Do you have stroked 3.2 L M3 engine in your car ?

A VR6 golf can spank a 318,320,323, and walk on a
stock 325 or 328... it can almost hold a 3.0 m3.
a 3.2 m3 will walk not run on a 5spd vr6 golf III.
they are fast as hell a friend of mine has one
and its stock and he can hold with me in my
slightly modded 328

Originally posted by djbeemer
A VR6 golf can spank a 318,320,323, and walk on a
stock 325 or 328... it can almost hold a 3.0 m3.
a 3.2 m3 will walk not run on a 5spd vr6 golf III.
they are fast as hell a friend of mine has one
and its stock and he can hold with me in my
slightly modded 328

THose golfs run low 15s stock, no way can it beat a 328is (runs 14.7 or so stock), and no way can it hold an M3!!!! Ya they're fast, but not all that fast.

Originally posted by VOLSBimmer


THose golfs run low 15s stock, no way can it beat a 328is (runs 14.7 or so stock), and no way can it hold an M3!!!! Ya they're fast, but not all that fast.

I concur. A slightly modified GTi was a match for my Grand Prix GTP when it was stock. I don't think it would be even close to a 5-speed M3, 3.0 or not.

i had a runin with a vr6 in my //m. he kept up pretty good and i didn't spank him by any means. he was running stock to. there was too much traffic to really let loose but during those short spurts he was in clear sight in my rear view.

i used to have a 95 gti vr6 also. i chipped it and did the intake and suspension. added a short shifter and i tell you what, i could keep up if not beat almost anything save the porches.

fast car. i loved that thing.

Originally posted by j.c. estoril
i used to have a 95 gti vr6 also. i chipped it and did the intake and suspension. added a short shifter and i tell you what, i could keep up if not beat almost anything save the porches.

Could it beat your ///M? Just wondering.

A little off-topic, but I heard those Volkswagens/Audis with the 1.8 turbo engine in them can be chipped and made to get monster gains in hp. Now, is the 1.8 turbo + chip faster than the 2.8 + chip?

i always wondered about that to tell you the truth. i mean the gti was extremely quick but i think the //m would definitely take it in an all out race. when you get to the end of third and into 4th, the //m truly shines. i never felt the gti had the same torque at that rpm range. i never had the chance to truly test it. i ran with an //m3 about three times when i had the gti. i kept up everytime and by that i mean they never pulled away from me but there was always traffic or some other factor that got in the way.

A chipped 1.8T, with exhaust and other minor bits, will have more HP and way more torque than a chipped/intake 2.8. Plus, the 1.8T is lighter. A bigger turbo (starting at around $1400) will put it in a different league.

There was an article (in EC, or SCC, don't remember which) that compared the 2 engine options in GTIs. The 1.8T came on top, even stock.

My mildly chipped A4 is definitely faster than my previous stock 95 VR6 Jetta, even though it is also heavier by 200lbs.

adc

Originally posted by adc
A chipped 1.8T, with exhaust and other minor bits, will have more HP and way more torque than a chipped/intake 2.8. Plus, the 1.8T is lighter. A bigger turbo (starting at around $1400) will put it in a different league.


Dang, that's definitely interesting. Who'd want the 2.8 then when they can put a little work into the 1.8T? Which cars does Volkswagen/Audi put the 1.8T in? Beetle, Jetta, A4...

Dang, that's definitely interesting. Who'd want the 2.8 then when they can put a little work into the 1.8T? Which cars does Volkswagen/Audi put the 1.8T in? Beetle, Jetta, A4...

Exactly! That's why the 1.8T is de-tuned on purpose to 150HP on most VW applications. The same engine powers the 180HP TT, while the same engine with an extra intercooler and bigger turbo is good for 225HP also in the TT. The engine makes 170HP stock in the latest A4s...

A 1 bar chip will take it to 205HP, 245 torque. A bigger turbo (KKK 04) will take it to 230-240HP. An APR stage 3 (different turbo, manifold, chip and intercooler) will take it to 260-280HP!!!

adc

Originally posted by adc
Exactly! That's why the 1.8T is de-tuned on purpose to 150HP on most VW applications. The same engine powers the 180HP TT, while the same engine with an extra intercooler and bigger turbo is good for 225HP also in the TT. The engine makes 170HP stock in the latest A4s...

I'm thinking these would make great project cars. How much do these modifications run? And why does VW de-tune the engine so much if they're capable of that much power?

They can charge more for the "luxury" 2.8 models. Plus, the cheaper cars would embarass the high-end models performance-wise.

The costs are as follows:
A basic chip runs for $300 (plug-n-play)
Exhaust is on par with the M3 ones (plug-n-play)
Slightly bigger turbo plus chip, $1500 (still plug-n-play)
Stage 3 mentioned above, around $4000-$5000 (definitely not plug-n-play)

I'm told a Stage 3plus A4 will be faster than a stock M3 and will stay with a supercharged one. Not sure whether to believe that or not, but it would definitely need better brakes/suspension too.

And remember, the GTI is much lighter than the A4, which is bigger and has Quattro. A worked GTI would be fast as stink, limited only by traction.

adc

Thanks for the info. I guess the moral of the story is that you shouldn't underestimate the vw/audi drivers, because they can be sneaky fast for really cheap.

A chipped 1.8T, with exhaust and other minor bits, will have more HP and way more torque than a chipped/intake 2.8. Plus, the 1.8T is lighter. A bigger turbo (starting at around $1400) will put it in a different league.

There was an article (in EC, or SCC, don't remember which) that compared the 2 engine options in GTIs. The 1.8T came on top, even stock.

My mildly chipped A4 is definitely faster than my previous stock 95 VR6 Jetta, even though it is also heavier by 200lbs.

adc

Well, I don't know much about them, but I raced a new Golf from a 50 mph roll in my '98 Z28 (6-sp, 312 RWHP, 4.10 gears, exhaust, etc.), and I only had him by a fender at 120!!. This thing was the ultimate sleeper. I knew something was up when HE started the race, not me.

I don't know what he had in it, but it was quick. He did have an APS/Neuspeed license plate frame on it, but that could mean anything.

Be careful! This particular Golf would have smoked my M3.

Chris

Originally posted by Cannon
Well, I don't know much about them, but I raced a new Golf from a 50 mph roll in my '98 Z28 (6-sp, 312 RWHP, 4.10 gears, exhaust, etc.), and I only had him by a fender at 120!!. This thing was the ultimate sleeper. I knew something was up when HE started the race, not me.
Chris

Hey Cannon, does that TT in your sig mean your Camaro has a twin turbo? I'm guessing you didn't have that in when you raced the Golf, right?

Rel44 M3,

Yup. It's a twin turbo, and unfortunately I didn't have it installed at the time. I finally seem to have gotten all of the bugs out of it, and it is the ultimate sleeper (well, almost as good as Tampaturbo's car). Completely stock idle, stock driveability, and it's very quiet (as Camaro's go, anyway). On cooler days it will light the rear tires from a roll in second gear. Fun fun fun.

It's only running 4.3 lbs of boost at the moment, and I'm already going 100% on the injectors at around 5400 rpm. Larger injectors are in the near future so I can up the boost a bit more. Hopefully the notoriously weak rear end holds up. We'll see.

Chris

Cannon, sweet ride, man! I bet you eat up everything on the streets. :cool: