i took one for a test drive today and i have to say that for $85k i was not impressed by the car at all. it is fast but not as fast as what i have and it was not a blistering torque. for lack of a better word it felt "loose" hitting bumps at speed. it was however very well mannered and fun to drive just not a "super car" like it is hyped up to be. this is tough cause i was sure till today that the 996 tt was going to be my next vehicle. i am now not so sure.:(

i took one for a test drive today and i have to say that for $85k i was not impressed by the car at all. it is fast but not as fast as what i have and it was not a blistering torque. for lack of a better word it felt "loose" hitting bumps at speed. it was however very well mannered and fun to drive just not a "super car" like it is hyped up to be. this is tough cause i was sure till today that the 996 tt was going to be my next vehicle. i am now not so sure.:(


So, you're stepping out of a highly modified BMW M3, into a 100% stock 996 turbo, and you expected to be in awe from its performance?

You're comparing apples to oranges, let's talk about bolt-ons for that P-car. :)

Technique Tuning stg 2 m coupe?

I dunno, I didn't expect a turbo to be much slower than your car at all.... but for 85K that thing better drive like new.

So, you're stepping out of a highly modified BMW M3, into a 100% stock 996 turbo, and you expected to be in awe from its performance?

You're comparing apples to oranges, let's talk about bolt-ons for that P-car. :)

i know but it is supposed to be this world class sports car i did expect a little more.

Technique Tuning stg 2 m coupe?


that has zero to do with the conversation at hand.


I dunno, I didn't expect a turbo to be much slower than your car at all.... but for 85K that thing better drive like new.

it drives different. from a stop they both feel strong but my car pulls much harder up top. from a roll the 996 definitely has more low end grunt but that's it. it like the power come on then tappers off. where mine steadily increases. it is weird to explain you would have to drive the two to feel the difference.

that has zero to do with the conversation at hand.



it drives different. from a stop they both feel strong but my car pulls much harder up top. from a roll the 996 definitely has more low end grunt but that's it. it like the power come on then tappers off. where mine steadily increases. it is weird to explain you would have to drive the two to feel the difference.

I know it doesn't have much to do with the converstaion. Just a random suggestion considering you want torque and speed, and a real sports car. Figured it fit the bill.

However, there's software to fix that flattening power curve:D The pcar is loaded with potential.

If you didn't love it immediately, then no way it should be your next car. Maybe you should consider a Ferrari or a z06. If not, then e46 m3 with a HPF kit might be just right.

If you didn't love it immediately, then no way it should be your next car. Maybe you should consider a Ferrari or a z06. If not, then e46 m3 with a HPF kit might be just right.

that is the way i feel but it was one of those situations that, i ave loved the 911 turbo since the 993tt and now i can finally afford one and it was kind of a let down. now on the upside i know there is plenty of potential there (kinda like when i bought the e36 m3). i could buy it and slowly mod it as i did the e36 since 99. but lets be realistic one of the main reasons for looking at a car like the 996tt is that i do not want to keep "modding" i want a car that outperforms mine in stock form without being ridiculously expensive and have some class as well.

I got to drive an 03 996TT ( I believe) that had a stage 3 or 4 something in it on my last visit to my car at ICS ( Elliott's car) and it seemed OK to me . The Subaru whatever it is that they are tuning these days at ICS out ran it a bit but , it definitely had power enough to have fun with on the highway for me at least.Of course I have not driven a car with a stick for quite awhile so I was exhilarated at that fact also... He bought the car used and put like 10K into it , 996's seem plenty in this world at somewhat fair prices it seems... It is a big car though , not like the 964 , 930 seat of your pants feeling ....

i took one for a test drive today and i have to say that for $85k i was not impressed by the car at all. it is fast but not as fast as what i have and it was not a blistering torque. for lack of a better word it felt "loose" hitting bumps at speed. it was however very well mannered and fun to drive just not a "super car" like it is hyped up to be. this is tough cause i was sure till today that the 996 tt was going to be my next vehicle. i am now not so sure.:(

They are a little deceiving, there isn't much drama in one, even when you WOT. I think it's just because the car is so solid. I drove my uncles 996 gt2 and it doesn't FEEL faster then my turbo m3. Under wot the m3 gets crazy and it feels really fast. The gt2 on the other hand is so solid and smooth. No urgency at all, it just does everything so easily. Going 100+ feels like your doing 40. The chasis just holds the power so well. I have no doubt that the gt2 is much faster then my car but it just dosen't feel like it.

How did it feel in the turns....unstable hitting bumps you say?

How did it feel in the turns....unstable hitting bumps you say?

the car handled fairly well it was planted and did what i wanted, it just felt loose. like steering wheel shook a bit and almost felt like the shocks were blown. but the car is certified so i can't imagine that being the case.

So, you're stepping out of a highly modified BMW M3, into a 100% stock 996 turbo, and you expected to be in awe from its performance?

You're comparing apples to oranges, let's talk about bolt-ons for that P-car. :)


+1
I think you are talking about apples and oranges. :)

If you felt that a 1995 BMW M3 handled better than a 2004 Porsche turbo then I suggest you enter rehab!

If you felt that a 1995 BMW M3 handled better than a 2004 Porsche turbo then I suggest you enter rehab!

i never said that. nor did i really have a chance to find out. what i said was it felt looser. the car was planted but the solid "feel" that i am used to was not there.

the car handled fairly well it was planted and did what i wanted, it just felt loose. like steering wheel shook a bit and almost felt like the shocks were blown. but the car is certified so i can't imagine that being the case.


you have a coilover kit on your car? the front of 996's always feels a little loose, but trust me they are incredibly precise...Not motor to weight down the front feels a little weird at first, but you learn to LOVE it.... Just chip this car and it's a totally different beast... (almost 500hp with the chip).

Definitely an everyday supercar, not exhausting to drive, lots of hp and torque, and super precise steering...

in case you ever get bored with it.. call protomotive....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvRfkN5EuMM

Drew I am in the same boat as you, I looked at the 996 TT and was so close to pulling the pin on one but then decided it just wasn't that inspiring over the car I have. In fact it was dissapointing.

I then looked at the new C6 Corvette, a lot of potential for about 1/2 the price new. The thing is on the track that Corvette kicks just about everybodies tail. The new C6 has 438hp and some quarter mile time I have seen put it right in there with the Z06. I already have seen discounting down to 45k for a new one. Something to consider.

i never said that. nor did i really have a chance to find out. what i said was it felt looser. the car was planted but the solid "feel" that i am used to was not there.

There's something wrong here. The AWD platform combined with Porsche's far superior engineering should combine to give any driver a vastly better "feel" coming from an ancient BMW M3 to a fresh 996 TT.

In regards to a stock 996TT feel under acceleration, the factory tune is designed to give a seamless lag-free push at low and mid range RPMs while nosing over in the high RPM range. It's all about civilised behaviour.

Any stage I tune will take you from 420 bhp (stock) to 490 bhp with no other mods. From there you can go along any number of well defined paths right up to 800+ bhp. There are 996TTs claiming over 1,000 rwhp nowdays and who knows .. maybe they do make that power. The point being these cars are very moddable, there are efined paths and multiple vendors all competing for your money.

No the simple fact is that any 996TT, especially a fresh 2004 model, has it all over any 1995 BMW M3 you care to name.

e46 m3 + HPF Stage II = next car for you!

There's something wrong here. The AWD platform combined with Porsche's far superior engineering should combine to give any driver a vastly better "feel" coming from an ancient BMW M3 to a fresh 996 TT.

In regards to a stock 996TT feel under acceleration, the factory tune is designed to give a seamless lag-free push at low and mid range RPMs while nosing over in the high RPM range. It's all about civilised behaviour.

Any stage I tune will take you from 420 bhp (stock) to 490 bhp with no other mods. From there you can go along any number of well defined paths right up to 800+ bhp. There are 996TTs claiming over 1,000 rwhp nowdays and who knows .. maybe they do make that power. The point being these cars are very moddable, there are efined paths and multiple vendors all competing for your money.

No the simple fact is that any 996TT, especially a fresh 2004 model, has it all over any 1995 BMW M3 you care to name.

As true as that may seem, a well sorted E36 can give any Porsche past or present fits at the track. There are some of us that spend all our spare time at the track schooling those cars. :)

A very inspiring driver I know has a new GT3 and a widebody 95 M3 lightweight, he proclaims over and over that the M3 is the car he would choose any day over the Porsche.

As true as that may seem, a well sorted E36 can give any Porsche past or present fits at the track. There are some of us that spend all our spare time at the track schooling those cars. :)

A very inspiring driver I know has a new GT3 and a widebody 95 M3 lightweight, he proclaims over and over that the M3 is the car he would choose any day over the Porsche.

Let's examine those sentiments.

A superior driver can get better results in a race prepped E36 compared to a poor driver in a stock Porsche. Gotcha.

Answer me this. Equal ability drivers, one in a 1995 BMW M3 and one in a 2004 Porsche Turbo. Who is going to lap first?

But Kenny, isn't the "feel" part going to be partially based on what the driver is looking for in the car? The 95 m3 was considered by many to be one of the best handling cars in terms of feel (I know not in terms of straight up handling performance) to come out of the 90's, so is it that surprising to find drivers who would still prefer that feel over a more modern porsche? I myself would have expected the porsche to feel better at handling, but at the same time I can't say I'm surprised to hear someone say they don't think it feels better. Of course I'd still take it over any e36 m3 probably...

Drew, I was just curious, is there any reason you didn't consider the exige S?

Austin

I've been in a GT3 at the track with Moton suspension as the only mod and it was amazing. The handling they have is awesome. I work on Porsches everyday at work and when I get to drive a 996 I'm always excited. They look great, steer great and are lightyears ahead of previous models.

But Kenny, isn't the "feel" part going to be partially based on what the driver is looking for in the car? The 95 m3 was considered by many to be one of the best handling cars in terms of feel (I know not in terms of straight up handling performance) to come out of the 90's, so is it that surprising to find drivers who would still prefer that feel over a more modern porsche? I myself would have expected the porsche to feel better at handling, but at the same time I can't say I'm surprised to hear someone say they don't think it feels better. Of course I'd still take it over any e36 m3 probably...

Drew, I was just curious, is there any reason you didn't consider the exige S?

Austin

i'm too fat and don't fit....

Lol ok that works. Just start running. Then not only will you fit in the car, but it'll be cheaper than the porsche turbo, and on top of that you'll be healthy and fit in the end. See, you really can solve your problems by running away from them.

Austin

Well I've had an E36 M3 and I currently drive a 996 TT so I think I am well qualified to compare the handling of the two. The Porsche is utterly dominant in terms of handling. Actually in every sense, there's no comparison.

I've driven a lightly modded 996 Turbo X50. It has an ECU Program, Exhaust, Intake, Suspension Coilovers and Bars, and factory Carbon Brakes. It was a Steal Grey on Black with Aluminum Bits Inside... It was an 02 IIRC, and it was awesome. As for handling, every Mid Engine car feels different then a Front Engine Rear Drive Car. But when you tune the car right, and not doing much (he spent maybe 3k-5k into the car with exhaust, ECU, Intake, and suspension) he got alot out of it.

Its hard to compare any modded car to factory. Even NSXs suck until you get some NSX-R stuff on them (chassis stiffen bar, etc.)

You have to drive a car or research well enough.

well i may just get it anyway. it is the same as when i bought the m3. the m3 didn't go that fast and needed work to get it to where it is now. so i will just have to start modding again.

Post up a link to the car, I would love to see it.

Let's examine those sentiments.

A superior driver can get better results in a race prepped E36 compared to a poor driver in a stock Porsche. Gotcha.

Answer me this. Equal ability drivers, one in a 1995 BMW M3 and one in a 2004 Porsche Turbo. Who is going to lap first?

Equal ability my car against a stock 996 twin turbo, I would take my chances.

Equal ability my car against a stock 996 twin turbo, I would take my chances.

I bet though, it will outlast a modified M3 on the track given enough time.

There's something wrong here. The AWD platform combined with Porsche's far superior engineering should combine to give any driver a vastly better "feel" coming from an ancient BMW M3 to a fresh 996 TT.

In regards to a stock 996TT feel under acceleration, the factory tune is designed to give a seamless lag-free push at low and mid range RPMs while nosing over in the high RPM range. It's all about civilised behaviour.

Any stage I tune will take you from 420 bhp (stock) to 490 bhp with no other mods. From there you can go along any number of well defined paths right up to 800+ bhp. There are 996TTs claiming over 1,000 rwhp nowdays and who knows .. maybe they do make that power. The point being these cars are very moddable, there are efined paths and multiple vendors all competing for your money.

No the simple fact is that any 996TT, especially a fresh 2004 model, has it all over any 1995 BMW M3 you care to name.

While I agree with some of your points here, i have to disagree with you on something a support my man, drew. The stock suspension on the turbo is most definitely "floaty" or "soft" compared to a slammed ultra modded e36 m3, even an ancient one :lol. With an upgraded suspension on the turbo (comparing apples to apples) the turbo becomes better than the modded m3. Suspension is a relatively simple mod and the turbo has much more bang for the buck in teh mod department.

It is also feels a bit slower than one would EXPECT it to be based on its reputation as a 100% reliable, daily driver competition for most exotics on the road at the time. Keep in mind, there is the x50 option on 02+ cars that give the car 450hp through k24 upgraded turbos (among other little upgrades). Those cars are significantly quicker and have a much HIGHER hp potential w/o touching the turbos.

At 125-200K (yes, ive seen a new 996TT non-gt2 optioned out to 195k), the car is a bit over-priced, but at today's used market prices, it will definitely be my next car. I dont have a ton of driving time in a standard 996TT (jsut driven a few kinda hard for 15-20 minutes), but I have about 3k miles in a gt2 and that has sealed the deal for me. A 996tt can easily be made to be "better" than a stock gt2. Thats what im lookign forward to :evil2

hey drew, have you considered a new model e55? If the m3 didnt have a backseat, i would get the e55 over the 996tt.. The e55 is absolutely amazing out of the box. A chip, pulley, and headers, it does nasty things. I have tons of driving time in that car as well. Stock i have seen others run 11.9s (fastest ive ever run was a 12.1 on stock rubber). An acquaintance of mine ran a low 10, with jsut a shot of spray and r-comps on the back (20"s on the front). Also, its a baller car with tons of room for you and 8 chicks :). It is far more practical, cheaper in price, maintenance, and insurance, and attracts less attention from the fuzz.

i am not a big fan of benz. and the fact that it is not a "sports" car is very unattractive to me. i do like the car but i feel like it isn't going to make me happy when scooting around, it is a big and heavy car.

Drew I am in the same boat as you, I looked at the 996 TT and was so close to pulling the pin on one but then decided it just wasn't that inspiring over the car I have. In fact it was dissapointing.

I then looked at the new C6 Corvette, a lot of potential for about 1/2 the price new. The thing is on the track that Corvette kicks just about everybodies tail. The new C6 has 438hp and some quarter mile time I have seen put it right in there with the Z06. I already have seen discounting down to 45k for a new one. Something to consider.
+1.As much as I love German engineering,the LS family is kick-ass.

Was a used 360 Modena on your list of choices? I know it's not as fast as the porsche, but I'd imagine the handling feel would be awesome (never had a chance to drive one). And it's a ferrari...

Kenny, I wasn't trying to say you weren't qualified to compare the two cars. I was just asking why it's tough to believe that a driver might prefer the feel of the m3 when "feel" is a subjective opinion to begin with.

Austin

i am not a big fan of benz. and the fact that it is not a "sports" car is very unattractive to me. i do like the car but i feel like it isn't going to make me happy when scooting around, it is a big and heavy car.

true, but it pulls so hard in a straight line that its hard not to have fun with it... It isnt nearly as nimble, or has the braking capability of the turbo, but it never fails to put a smile on my face every time i drive it. Also, it goes through gas like a viper in youre always on the gas...just trying to mention some other options. I agree with one of the previous posters that said you probably should look elsewhere or wait a bit longer if you arent psyched about getting it. Are you getting rid of the e36, or keeping that too?

true, but it pulls so hard in a straight line that its hard not to have fun with it... It isnt nearly as nimble, or has the braking capability of the turbo, but it never fails to put a smile on my face every time i drive it. Also, it goes through gas like a viper in youre always on the gas...just trying to mention some other options. I agree with one of the previous posters that said you probably should look elsewhere or wait a bit longer if you arent psyched about getting it. Are you getting rid of the e36, or keeping that too?

keeping the m. i am gonna try to find an x50 package. they are fewer so it may take me a while to find one that is right for me. i got this 04 black/black with nav and aluminum interior package down to $78k. but i find it had to justify that kind of money and not be "Psyched" about it. i am gonna have to hold off for something more to my liking.

Was a used 360 Modena on your list of choices? I know it's not as fast as the porsche, but I'd imagine the handling feel would be awesome (never had a chance to drive one). And it's a ferrari...

Austin, the ferrari is very cool. Its got a wow factor that has to be considered when making the purchase. The sound is amazing and it will turn heads wherever you go. The unfortunate thing is that if you actually drive the car your maintance/repair bills will probably be as much as a used 996TT in a few years. Also, the modding potential of the car is kinda... non-existent. I havent had much time in a standard 360 (only driven one coupe and one spider) and can say the f1 tranny is the only way to go on that car, and it become pricey. Most of my seat time has been in stradales (the more rare, upgraded version for 04). That car is totally raw. Also, that car is not driveable year round in the northeast as opposed to the 4wd of the 996tt. Again, no aftermarket market for the car, 200K pricetag, and a lightly modded 996tt will lay the smack down on that car. Of course, speed isnt the only reason to buy a car, otherwise we would all be driving 9 second civics or mustangs :)

keeping the m. i am gonna try to find an x50 package. they are fewer so it may take me a while to find one that is right for me. i got this 04 black/black with nav and aluminum interior package down to $78k. but i find it had to justify that kind of money and not be "Psyched" about it. i am gonna have to hold off for something more to my liking.

HEHEH get the 997TT when the prices drop.... its worlds better and almost makes the 996TT look like a piece of shit!

HEHEH get the 997TT when the prices drop.... its worlds better and almost makes the 996TT look like a piece of shit!

by the time the price drops they will be making a 998tt. lol and i would have to sell my car to even consider buying a 997....

by the time the price drops they will be making a 998tt. lol and i would have to sell my car to even consider buying a 997....

I was considering telling Car and Driver, Automobile, etc. to delay delivery of new magazines by about 5 years so that I could read about "new cars" that I might actually purchase.

have you driven an rs4 yet? I jsut went to look at one this weekend while we picked up my girlfriends new car :) i converted her to german!! The build quality on the new audis and design of the interior is absolutely incredible ( i just posted on audi world about how impressed I was). I havent had the chance to drive the car yet b/c they are so rare, but i hear they are decently quick... with a s/c kit or a turbo kit, im sure those cars are REALLY fast and still big enough to be comfortable.

I was considering telling Car and Driver, Automobile, etc. to delay delivery of new magazines by about 5 years so that I could read about "new cars" that I might actually purchase.

HAHAHAHAh thats hilarious!:lol:lol:lol:lol welcome to my life...the price of these cars new are jsut so incredibly high that I probably will never buy another new car after my e46 m3.

have you driven an rs4 yet? I jsut went to look at one this weekend while we picked up my girlfriends new car :) i converted her to german!! The build quality on the new audis and design of the interior is absolutely incredible ( i just posted on audi world about how impressed I was). I havent had the chance to drive the car yet b/c they are so rare, but i hear they are decently quick... with a s/c kit or a turbo kit, im sure those cars are REALLY fast and still big enough to be comfortable.

Modded 335i's are beating RS4's. I love how they look but for that kind of money spend 20k more and get an R8.

The Porsche's are also not the uber reliable cars people think they are. The engine is a throw away in 996's. Porsche doesn't support that motor with pistons, heads etc. Their solution is if the motor breaks you buy a new one. Also they are known to have a lot of issues with oil leaks that can get to be very expensive to fix.

Would it last longer on the track than the modded M3, maybe but when it breaks get out your wallet because it won't be cheap.

Drew, look into the GT-3! Although not F/I as the GT-2, 911 Turbo, 996 Turbo etc., the vehicle has rave reviews and a suspension that one can only dream of. One of my personal favorites from the Porsche guys!

Modded 335i's are beating RS4's. I love how they look but for that kind of money spend 20k more and get an R8.


thats true.... I just saw a special edition rs4 at the dealer and it was a 79k sticker... Absolutely insane. I dont think the R8s have dropped to the pount where you can buy one and have it now for 100k though, but i see your point 100%.

Drew, look into the GT-3! Although not F/I as the GT-2, 911 Turbo, 996 Turbo etc., the vehicle has rave reviews and a suspension that one can only dream of. One of my personal favorites from the Porsche guys!

great suggestion! the 996 GT3 is a phenomenal car. It is almost as quick as a k16 (non-x50 k24'd) 996tt in acceleration up to 120, but there are some huge downfalls for it. Again, like the 360, the car is largely unusable for half the year in the northeast (especially since it doesnt have psm). The modded potential of the car is far below that of the 996tt and drew is a huge boost junky. Finally, you can find a ton of used turbos significantly cheaper than the gt3. A newer x50 pack TT is closer to the gt3 price and far superior in MOST aspects other than handling and the immediate response of the n/a motor. I personally think the gt3 is total dogshit as a daily driver around town. that car is only good for car meets and the track.

The GT3 is not a street car, it is a track junkie car.

By the way if you pop a motor in a Porsche it is 20k plus installation.

A Chevy Corvette crate motor for an LS2 is under 5k.

993 turbo S, I prefer those personally

Modded 335i's are beating RS4's. I love how they look but for that kind of money spend 20k more and get an R8.

The Porsche's are also not the uber reliable cars people think they are. The engine is a throw away in 996's. Porsche doesn't support that motor with pistons, heads etc. Their solution is if the motor breaks you buy a new one. Also they are known to have a lot of issues with oil leaks that can get to be very expensive to fix.

Would it last longer on the track than the modded M3, maybe but when it breaks get out your wallet because it won't be cheap.

The non-Turbo, non-Gt motors do have their RMS issues, but the Turbo/GT motors are based on the old GT1 block. Completely different engine, without the issues.

Hard to beat a 996tt if you want a Turbo German exotic/sports car.

Finally, you can find a ton of used turbos significantly cheaper than the gt3. A newer x50 pack TT is closer to the gt3 price and far superior in MOST aspects other than handling and the immediate response of the n/a motor. I personally think the gt3 is total dogshit as a daily driver around town. that car is only good for car meets and the track.
A black with orange 2007 GT3-RS sold on a used specialty lot down the street for close to $200k and was on the lot for one day. It turned my head more than any lambo or ferrari. The same dealer has 2005 911 Turbo S vert for sale at $125k (and a 98 m3 vert for $19k with 90k miles).

It is hard to beat the value of a vette.

Austin, the ferrari is very cool. Its got a wow factor that has to be considered when making the purchase. The sound is amazing and it will turn heads wherever you go. The unfortunate thing is that if you actually drive the car your maintance/repair bills will probably be as much as a used 996TT in a few years. Also, the modding potential of the car is kinda... non-existent. I havent had much time in a standard 360 (only driven one coupe and one spider) and can say the f1 tranny is the only way to go on that car, and it become pricey. Most of my seat time has been in stradales (the more rare, upgraded version for 04). That car is totally raw. Also, that car is not driveable year round in the northeast as opposed to the 4wd of the 996tt. Again, no aftermarket market for the car, 200K pricetag, and a lightly modded 996tt will lay the smack down on that car. Of course, speed isnt the only reason to buy a car, otherwise we would all be driving 9 second civics or mustangs :)

Yeah, I love the 360 stradale. Have you driven an exige S? I'm curious as to how the 360 or stradale compare to the exige S in handling and feel. I'm hoping by the time I'm around 40 I'll be able to find a stradale for under 100k (I'm 22 now). Is it possible to work on the ferrari yourself? I'm sure that would save tons of money. I didn't realize Drew was looking for modding potential. If so then yeah, I totally agree the 360 is somewhat limited. Unless of course Norwood already has a twin turbo setup for it lol. Haven't looked though.

Austin

The GT3 is not a street car, it is a track junkie car.

By the way if you pop a motor in a Porsche it is 20k plus installation.

A Chevy Corvette crate motor for an LS2 is under 5k.

LS3 now:buttrock(which is re-enforced for FI at a later date)

A black with orange 2007 GT3-RS sold on a used specialty lot down the street for close to $200k and was on the lot for one day. It turned my head more than any lambo or ferrari. The same dealer has 2005 911 Turbo S vert for sale at $125k (and a 98 m3 vert for $19k with 90k miles).

It is hard to beat the value of a vette.

I dont know where this post came from?.. i thought you were talking about the 996 gt3, not a 997gt3-rs. Plus, I dont disagree with the value of the vette. Please reread my posts, I never said anything like that ( i havent even said anything about a vette). I dont think drew is ONLY LOOKING FOR POWER....someone suggested the 996gt3 and i just listed some pros and cons in drew's situation.

Yeah, I love the 360 stradale. Have you driven an exige S? I'm curious as to how the 360 or stradale compare to the exige S in handling and feel. I'm hoping by the time I'm around 40 I'll be able to find a stradale for under 100k (I'm 22 now). Is it possible to work on the ferrari yourself? I'm sure that would save tons of money. I didn't realize Drew was looking for modding potential. If so then yeah, I totally agree the 360 is somewhat limited. Unless of course Norwood already has a twin turbo setup for it lol. Haven't looked though.

Austin

Nope. I havent driven the exige S, but i have driven the elise a few times. Is it nimble and fast? yeah, but it lacks In a ton of areas that I would assume the exige S does as well...IMO, stradales will only get more and more expensive from now on. I dont think youll find one in 20 years for 100k :). I dont even want to think what FI costs on an F-Car. Fuck that shit..:eyecrazy

993 turbo S, I prefer those personally

extremely rare, and therefore very very expensive for what they are...nice car though

Modded 335i's are beating RS4's. I love how they look but for that kind of money spend 20k more and get an R8.

The Porsche's are also not the uber reliable cars people think they are. The engine is a throw away in 996's. Porsche doesn't support that motor with pistons, heads etc. Their solution is if the motor breaks you buy a new one. Also they are known to have a lot of issues with oil leaks that can get to be very expensive to fix.

Would it last longer on the track than the modded M3, maybe but when it breaks get out your wallet because it won't be cheap.

+1. I'd encourage the second paragraph except i'd like to express that most N/A porsche's are very reliable while the turbo porsche's can be :eek:. Maybe its just me but out of the thousands of track miles i've had I almost always run into a 996turbo having trouble's or leaks a few times a year.

O.P I think if your looking to have fun on the street and mod the hell out of something then you should hold out for a good X50..or drive a modded one before you drop 75 large!!!! If your looking for sheer driving pleasure, a track beast, and something more reliable then you need to re-think and look at GT3's. My 02. You complained about Merc's being so fat, well AWD 996T's arn't exactly skinny either..maybe thats why you feel distant from the car.

I dont know where this post came from?.. i thought you were talking about the 996 gt3, not a 997gt3-rs. Plus, I dont disagree with the value of the vette. Please reread my posts, I never said anything like that ( i havent even said anything about a vette). I dont think drew is ONLY LOOKING FOR POWER....someone suggested the 996gt3 and i just listed some pros and cons in drew's situation.



Vette's were mentioned elsewhere, as was an e55. I agree that the two gt3 cars are not the same, I was simply pointing out all of the price points on the P-cars. The 996tt is a pretty good bargain in the P-car range, as opposed to driving a gt3 as a street car. People sure seem edgy today on Bfc.

+1. I'd encourage the second paragraph except i'd like to express that most N/A porsche's are very reliable while the turbo porsche's can be :eek:. Maybe its just me but out of the thousands of track miles i've had I almost always run into a 996turbo having trouble's or leaks a few times a year.

O.P I think if your looking to have fun on the street and mod the hell out of something then you should hold out for a good X50..or drive a modded one before you drop 75 large!!!! If your looking for sheer driving pleasure, a track beast, and something more reliable then you need to re-think and look at GT3's. My 02. You complained about Merc's being so fat, well AWD 996T's arn't exactly skinny either..maybe thats why you feel distant from the car.

I believe the weight on the 996 TT is around 3600lbs.

How about this 996 Gemballa already modded. Just remove the ugly grills.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-Porsche-911-Turbo-Gemballa-Biturbo-550-AWESOME_W0QQitemZ110183801707QQihZ001QQcategoryZ10 156QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Equal ability my car against a stock 996 twin turbo, I would take my chances.
And is your car a stock 1995 BMW M3 or are you once again stacking the deck?

You guys have all the answers without bias. I'll leave you to your opinions.

Vette's were mentioned elsewhere, as was an e55. I agree that the two gt3 cars are not the same, I was simply pointing out all of the price points on the P-cars. The 996tt is a pretty good bargain in the P-car range, as opposed to driving a gt3 as a street car. People sure seem edgy today on Bfc.

true, but you quoted me.. I jsut didnt want anyone thinking that I said vettes arent great bang for the buck.. If i was willing to put my life in a fiberglass death trap, I would have one in a second. Other than that, i agree with you.:buttrock

And is your car a stock 1995 BMW M3 or are you once again stacking the deck?

i agree with you kenny, comparing a modded car vs a stock one isnt fair. I think hes saying that he understands where drew is coming from (how drew was left semi-unimpressed by the stock 996tt coming from a heavily modded 95 m3). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think hes denying that a stock 996tt will destroy a stock 95 m3... at least, i hope not :)

i agree with you kenny, comparing a modded car vs a stock one isnt fair. I think hes saying that he understands where drew is coming from (how drew was left semi-unimpressed by the stock 996tt coming from a heavily modded 95 m3). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think hes denying that a stock 996tt will destroy a stock 95 m3... at least, i hope not :)

I was comparing where Drew was coming from a heavily modified E36 M3, to a stock 996. Just to clarify a stock M3 would get destroyed by a 996 TT.

I was comparing where Drew was coming from a heavily modified E36 M3, to a stock 996. Just to clarify a stock M3 would get destroyed by a 996 TT.

a stock m3 would get owned by most anything on the road today....

I was comparing where Drew was coming from a heavily modified E36 M3, to a stock 996. Just to clarify a stock M3 would get destroyed by a 996 TT.

k, thats what i thought :)


a stock m3 would get owned by most anything on the road today....


pretty much. We just picked up my g/f's new a4 2.oT (basically the base/entry model) and im convinced that it would give an m3 a good run for its money. Its sad.

Funny. Just bought my wife an 08 G35S. 306hp and this car moves.. A stock E36 would have some trouble running with it...

for sure.. those cars are seriously quick. A lot of people are gonna be unhappy when the g37 comes out!

Its out already here. I asked about it and they said the g37 with 330hp actually is about the same 0-60 as the G35..Great cars for the price but they still miss that BMW 'ooomph'. They are about 75% there though..

ah, i didnt know it was out already! I heard it was supposed to be significantly faster than the g35. thanks for the info.

I haven't spent much time in porsches, but for what it's worth I recently drove a 997tt and was blown away! That car just kept pulling through 150+MPH. I also drove a 997 GT3 and it sounded much deeper and sportier than the tt, but you can't compare the two for speed. Definitely would like to take them to the track. Too bad the new tt's are sooo pricey. Amazing car.

I wish I only had the finances to afford the Porsche. Any P-car would suit my needs, F/I or not!

Why do you guys love P-Cars so much?





















Haven't you tried Enzyte?

Hey, stop bashing on the non F/I M3's...they're still a great bang for the buck for us youngsters (I bought it when I was 19, I just turned 20). We can keep up with most 'sports cars' under 30k and they're damn fun...mine is pretty modded now and I'm keeping this thing forever. Technique Tuning will be getting a call from me soon. :)

I would rather have a highly modded lower end car than a high end car and leaving it relatively stock.

An HPF E46 M3 would be a great car to daily drive, the power would be there to whatever extent you choose and your wallet allows. Mods are generally cheaper. You can fine tune it to your liking when you build it and can be made extremely reliable if you're not trying to push 1k whp.

A turbo p-car will yield big monthly payments, repairs would be through the roof and you'd spend a fortune modding it to your liking.

Sure, an E46 M3 doesn't have the appeal of a Porsche Turbo, but you can make it your own and tailor it to everything your heart desires without reaching the 90k mark you would most definitely reach when modding a P-Turbo to the same caliber.

The difference between a HPF turbo kit and a Porsche TT really can't be compared. The 996 was engineered by the factory for turbo's. The HPF car is aftermarket on a very high compresion motor. I believe the Porsche is the much better engineered FI solution.

I would rather have a highly modded lower end car than a high end car and leaving it relatively stock.

I couldn't agree more man...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-Porsche-911-Turbo-Gemballa-Biturbo-550-AWESOME_W0QQitemZ110183801707QQihZ001QQcategoryZ10 156QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I love how the guy took pictures of the motor mounts and said "Bigger turbo on the left!" and "bigger turbo on the right!"

Hey, stop bashing on the non F/I M3's...they're still a great bang for the buck for us youngsters (I bought it when I was 19, I just turned 20). We can keep up with most 'sports cars' under 30k and they're damn fun...mine is pretty modded now and I'm keeping this thing forever. Technique Tuning will be getting a call from me soon. :)

I would rather have a highly modded lower end car than a high end car and leaving it relatively stock.

An HPF E46 M3 would be a great car to daily drive, the power would be there to whatever extent you choose and your wallet allows. Mods are generally cheaper. You can fine tune it to your liking when you build it and can be made extremely reliable if you're not trying to push 1k whp.

A turbo p-car will yield big monthly payments, repairs would be through the roof and you'd spend a fortune modding it to your liking.

Sure, an E46 M3 doesn't have the appeal of a Porsche Turbo, but you can make it your own and tailor it to everything your heart desires without reaching the 90k mark you would most definitely reach when modding a P-Turbo to the same caliber.

I couldn't agree more man...



you two have never dealt with the bugs, headaches and quirks of a highly modded car.... i would much rather get what i have now but in an engineer stock form.

you two have never dealt with the bugs, headaches and quirks of a highly modded car.... i would much rather get what i have now but in an engineer stock form.

+1

+1000 I couldn't agree more. It went on for more than 2 years before my car ran right. So many times I kept looking at those Z06's cranking out the laps at the track with no issues thinking why didn't I just buy a Chevy with no blower on it.

The 996 TT is a highly engineered solution, by a company with a great reputation for building sports cars.

you two have never dealt with the bugs, headaches and quirks of a highly modded car.... i would much rather get what i have now but in an engineer stock form.

What about taking the already better engineered solution and then modding it more? :devillook

Drew does this mean if you decided on a new sports car you wouldn't be looking for modding potential?

Austin

What about taking the already better engineered solution and then modding it more? :devillook

Drew does this mean if you decided on a new sports car you wouldn't be looking for modding potential?

Austin

i will never go passed the basic bolt ons again. suspension, exhaust, intake and chip is the max i will ever do again.

i will never go passed the basic bolt ons again. suspension, exhaust, intake and chip is the max i will ever do again.
Drew, you say that now! Every vehicle that I have owned went something just like this, " I'm never going to mod these things again!!" From my GS-r, S2000, STi, and current M3, it just never happens. Your going to find yourself modding away at almost anything you purchase. There was a point I was going to sell my M3 with all the little headaches/bugs it had. I could of easily went out and purchased an E46 M3, C5 Zo6, E39 M5 and the list goes on. However, I stayed with it, and couldn't be happier. Trust me, you'll mod your next project vehicle.

Has anyone ridden in an X50? I have a friend with a 996 TT (stock) and another with an X50 cabrio. The X50 was far more exhilarating! Granted, not worth what the dealer wants for the package, but it gives you an idea of what can be done.

Has anyone ridden in an X50? I have a friend with a 996 TT (stock) and another with an X50 cabrio. The X50 was far more exhilarating! Granted, not worth what the dealer wants for the package, but it gives you an idea of what can be done.

the pricing i have been seeing for a 996tt and 996tt w/x50 are not that different. in the used market the x50 only adds a few grand to the price as opposed to the 17K they asked for new.

the pricing i have been seeing for a 996tt and 996tt w/x50 are not that different. in the used market the x50 only adds a few grand to the price as opposed to the !&K they asked for new.

Might be worth it then. Yeah what was that package new, $15 - 20k? It definitely makes a difference though.

Might be worth it then. Yeah what was that package new, $15 - 20k? It definitely makes a difference though.

lol i held the shift button when typing 17k....

I was trying to figure out what !&K was. LOL.

the x50 kit is a major upgrade consisting of larger (k24 vs k16) turbos (along with some other minor things). It ups the horsepower to 450 and was only available as an option on 02+ turbos. IMO, x50 cars are significantly more expensive than the non-x50s even in the used market (i believe more than a couple grand). The x50 kit is definitely the way to go if you want to make good power w/o replacing the turbos. The k16s will make as much power and be a bit more responsive, but will require more work to get to the same point as a lightly modded x50 car. If i was gonna do a couple of "minor" upgrades, the x50 is the way to go; if i was gonna do extensive work, id go with a k16 car since i would replace the turbos anyway.

hey Drew did you have the chance to really get on the 996TT? Its ride is a bit bland compared to the older aircooled 993TT but its power is spontaneous. The X50 should feel a lot better. Cant see how some are comparing an M3 to a Porsche in handling. The car feels lose but actually isnt. Thats the beauty of the Porsche. you are use to teh stiffness of your car. when taking the Porsche to its limits it will exceed the M3 in every category. Its dialed in for high speeds.

hey Drew did you have the chance to really get on the 996TT? Its ride is a bit bland compared to the older aircooled 993TT but its power is spontaneous. The X50 should feel a lot better. Cant see how some are comparing an M3 to a Porsche in handling. The car feels lose but actually isnt. Thats the beauty of the Porsche. you are use to teh stiffness of your car. when taking the Porsche to its limits it will exceed the M3 in every category. Its dialed in for high speeds.

Same thing NSX guys feel every now and then.

In reality, your not use to having all that weight up front when you drive it, so you think the front feels loose when in fact its the suspension doing its job...

Same thing NSX guys feel every now and then.

In reality, your not use to having all that weight up front when you drive it, so you think the front feels loose when in fact its the suspension doing its job...

i have to drive one of those Honda's to understand what you are talking about. :D I keep hearing about them.
The Porsche feels light on its feet but is far from performing that way even in stock form. The AWD system is superb in taming the beast. Drew if you find one make sure it has the sport seats they tend to hug you better on corners. The powerband on a Porsche TT is perfect for daily driveability. Not much lag on the 996TTs. Just drove a 997TT which is an animal with no lag. Just wait a while till the 997TT drop a bit in the $80k range. They have no loose feel whatsoever. Feels like your in the powerband in every rpm. By mid next year you should be able to source one within your range. Or look around for a 996GT2. They should be easily sourced when the new 997GT2 beast is unleashed.

Look how you guys have been blessed....


To have a debate on how much a p car really disappointed.


More blessing for ya guys meng....


:buttrock

This totally reminds me of how i felt when i drove an 04 STi. I mean it was quick but it just couldn't compare to the raw "feel" of my corolla. If I were to pick one for the track I think i would "take my chances" with the tried and true corolla. For all that extra money and horsepower it was such a pig and not nearly as fast as it should have been.


Turbo + AWD = Teh suck.



e36M3 + 'Rolla 4EVER

It pretty easily comes down to this:

Can you afford to mod a TP-car and how much can you afford to mod it once you have already bent over with your pants down grabbing your ankles while Brutas Longjohn has his way with you regarding the purchase price?

Heavily modded they rock but do you have the deep pockets to pull it off or not? If not, then you can go turbo big with the e36 or HPF plus lots of suspension mods, etc. for the e46.

It pretty easily comes down to this:

Can you afford to mod a TP-car and how much can you afford to mod it once you have already bent over with your pants down grabbing your ankles while Brutas Longjohn has his way with you regarding the purchase price?

Heavily modded they rock but do you have the deep pockets to pull it off or not? If not, then you can go big with the e36 or HPF plus lots of suspension mods, etc. for the e46.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/rundatrack/friday.gif


Brutus who...

that is the way i feel but it was one of those situations that, i ave loved the 911 turbo since the 993tt

Get the 993 Turbo S. Too bad there were only 400 made :-)

yes it is a tough dilemma to have. i think i am gonna try and find a dealer with a used z06 to test drive and see if i like that. if i do i will just order an 08 z06 and call it a day...

Guys GT-R is all I have to say ;)

http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied_vehicles/112_0712_2008_nissan_gt_r

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0712_2008_nissan_gt_r

For 60-80k its the best bargain if thats what your looking for at a 7 min 35 sec for the Ring!

yes it is a tough dilemma to have. i think i am gonna try and find a dealer with a used z06 to test drive and see if i like that. if i do i will just order an 08 z06 and call it a day...

I'm assuming you mean a used C6 Z06? I drove a c5 z06 and was pretty disappointed in the handling feel. Sure the low end power was awesome, but the steering felt alot like my friend's ls1 camaro. Have you given a noble any though? What about building a factory five GTM? (If you couldn't tell by now, each time I post I try to think of a new cool car in the 70-100k range...)

Austin

Ultima GTR with 650hp big block or LS2 TT. :thumbup:

Kenny pretty much nailed it.

I will make no qualms about it in regard to where my vehicular interests lie. I own multiple Porsches, but I also have several BMWs, most notably the turbo M3 that many of you are familiar with.
While my M3 may make 633rwhp on pump fuel and have more mods than a tuner shop's warehouse, when given the option of choosing between it and a stock 996 Turbo, I would be hard pressed not to choose the Porsche every time. Of course, once you consider the tune'ability of the Porsche, that choice becomes yet even easier. The 911 Turbo exists on an entirely different plateau than the M3. The build, quality, performance and feel can simply not be compared. There is far more to a car than just numbers on a piece of paper or how hard it accelerates, and that needs to be taken into consideration when drawing comparisons. There is also the large price discrepancy between the two. However, there are certainly people with modified BMWs on this forum that easily exceed the cost of a Porsche with what they have spent.

Drew, you might want to give the Porsche another try. Transitioning from a modified front engine car, to a much more solidly built car with a rear engine layout, I can see why you initially felt some of the things you did. You may find that your conclusions are based more on perception than actual performance. When it comes time to modify, you will be glad you got the P-car. While much of the BMW tuning and aftermarket environment is based on trial and error, the one for Porsche is considerably more scientific and proven. If you chose to take the plunge, you will quickly begin to appreciate what I am saying.
Good luck.

yes it is a tough dilemma to have. i think i am gonna try and find a dealer with a used z06 to test drive and see if i like that. if i do i will just order an 08 z06 and call it a day...

There are already 1 year old Z06's going in the 60k range. That car is an absolute monster. More power than most people can handle.

You want to have a look at what these boys can do to a Porsche.

http://www.9ff.de/en/index.php

Have a look in the videos section.

I have made it very easy for everyone and designed a 5-step program for purchasing a Turbo P-car and then modding it heavily:

Step 1) Pull down pants.
Step 2) Grab ankles.
Step 3) Brutas Longjohn walks in the room.
Step 4) Brutas unzips and all of a sudden you hear a big thud.
Step 5) You don't want to know.

I have made it very easy for everyone and designed a 5-step program for purchasing a Turbo P-car and then modding it heavily:

Step 1) Pull down pants.
Step 2) Grab ankles.
Step 3) Brutas Longjohn walks in the room.
Step 4) Brutas unzips and all of a sudden you hear a big thud.
Step 5) You don't want to know.

You told him to buy that damn P car....



NO dawg I thought it was you...





































http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/WanadooFilms/Misdaad/PulpMarselluButch.jpg

You are twisted...I love it! :lol

HA I was just talking about that movie today with my coworker--

Gonna go grab a big kahuna burger. Later.

I'm assuming you mean a used C6 Z06? I drove a c5 z06 and was pretty disappointed in the handling feel. Sure the low end power was awesome, but the steering felt alot like my friend's ls1 camaro. Have you given a noble any though? What about building a factory five GTM? (If you couldn't tell by now, each time I post I try to think of a new cool car in the 70-100k range...)

Austin

:lol you can't possibly be comparing a c5z06's handling to a camaro...

i never said that. nor did i really have a chance to find out. what i said was it felt looser. the car was planted but the solid "feel" that i am used to was not there.

(sorry for not reading the whole thread)

looser? i have only driven one, i think it was a 2004 cab with the x04(or whatever boosted the hp a little) pkg and 19's. i thgouth it felt really tight(especially for a cab) with extremely responsive and heavy/tight steering - nothing like the base 996's or a e46 m3... and still far more engaging than an e36 m3(i had 2, both invarious states of tune). however i only drove it up and down the street(i was working at a dealership and was appraising this car for inventory purchase) but it was still enough time in the seat to feel impressed with the car, mainly because i dont really like 996's and was suprised that the TT felt like a 540 degree difference.

have you tried the Lotus esprit V8 TT? its comparable, not to mention a better buy(in the oppinion of a ex car dealer, dont flame). but they are not daily driver freindly though, kinda awkward to sit in and a very heavy clutch, but maybe they will have the viscerally alternative "feel" you are looking for?

another comparable car is the Maseratti coupe, they are fun, but the interior reminds my of an upscale ford mustang.. their looks are not exactly "timeless" but they are good buys and come with a 4yr 50k mi warranty.

if those dont work, ya gotta consider the new z06 - assuming you can buy one without having to pay mark up ontop of msrp. which may already be a reality? that or a VIper(pre facelift) those are even cooler - just dont hit a curb or you cause honeycomb structural damage.

yes it is a tough dilemma to have. i think i am gonna try and find a dealer with a used z06 to test drive and see if i like that. if i do i will just order an 08 z06 and call it a day...

Wait for the 09 Z06...650hp.

yes it is a tough dilemma to have. i think i am gonna try and find a dealer with a used z06 to test drive and see if i like that. if i do i will just order an 08 z06 and call it a day...

like i said, you will not be disappointed with that car AT ALL! Its an all around beast.