Hey guys,

My car has me stumped once again. I replaced my headgasket last week only to find my head is cracked. In the process of doing my headgasket, I managed to damage my distributor, causing my car not to crank until I replaced it with a spare.
Aside from the cracked head leaking coolant into one of the cylinders, the motor ran good.

Saturday morning I swapped out my cracked head for a good head I had lying around.

Now the car will not start. I've checked and double checked the cam/crank timing and I adjusted the valves on the new head. Also when cranking the engine does not sound the same, almost as if the valve timing is off, but i'm pretty sure i've got that right. The only thing I am not 100% sure on is my firing order. Would this be correct for a late model E21:


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n279/peperry/firingorder.jpg



Thanks guys. This one really has me stumped, although it's probably something really simple.

And to think I was going to make a grocery run today. Thank god I have my backup "hard times" ramen noodle stash.

That filter on the breather valve may be the problem. If im not mistaken, thatl be a HUGE Vacuum leak.

That filter on the breather valve may be the problem. If im not mistaken, thatl be a HUGE Vacuum leak.

I've got the T fitting plugged by the intake boot so thats not it. Thanks though

I'd like to know the correct firing order as well, I see the numbers stamped but I have know idea how they correspond on the distributor.?

I've got the T fitting plugged by the intake boot so thats not it. Thanks though

Are you sure? When I remove my oil filler cap with the engine running on a warm engine, the engine dies pretty quick.

I believe the breather "hooks" into the valve cover as the oil cap does...

Was the car running before with a breather filter installed?

Are you sure? When I remove my oil filler cap with the engine running on a warm engine, the engine dies pretty quick.

I believe the breather "hooks" into the valve cover as the oil cap does...

Was the car running before with a breather filter installed?


I'm 100% sure. I've had the breather on there for about 2 months now. With the T fitting plugged and the filter in place, my engine won't stall with the dipstick out or oil cap off.

preperry, how did you manage that, mines dies if i pull the dip stick?

I just went outside and snapped a pic for you guys:

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n279/peperry/IMG_3007.jpg

I removed the line going to the valve cover, removed the small T-fitting and the vacuum line going to the TB and put a vacuum cap on the nipple. then i removed the lower hose and plugged up the larger T fitting with a $1 home depot rubber cork. I put a bit of rtv on the cork first, then pushed it in with some pliers.

Hope that helps, now back to the original topic:D

The firing order for 1.8l m10's is indeed 1-3-4-2 (as indicated on the valve cover). But, in order to be 100% sure you have the correct spark plug wires connected, you'll need to:
-remove the valve cover (and verify which cylinder is at or near TDC)...looking @ the front of the motor, the cam rotates clockwise, where the exhaust valves open just before the intake valves.
-remove the distributor cap and find where the rotor is nearest one of the four posts (of where the distrib cap would be). The distributor rotor spins CCW on 1.8 m10's, so once you find that cylinder that just ignited/TDC, you can plug in the other 3 spark plug wires.

oh I see, nice and simple. By the way peperry, very nice clean engine bay. jbob, I know that part, the question was how & where to put them on the distributor cap. The cap doesn't have a number pattern.

You can write numbers on the cap for simplicity, but if you open it up, there is a mark where the rotor should be pointing when the #1 cylinder is just before TDC. (so that means cylinder #1 connection on the cap should be located at that spot)

UPDATE:

Alright, I found my compression tester and got some puzzling results.

185-0-0-0

WTF? Something is obviously not right here.

The head had a small bit of carbon build up but the valves and seats were pretty clean. Not nearly bad enough to cause these results.

What am I missing here? My bottom end has 230k on it, but its not like the cylinders are going to lose compression overnight.

Ok I see, I'll check that out.

oh I see, nice and simple. By the way peperry, very nice clean engine bay. jbob, I know that part, the question was how & where to put them on the distributor cap. The cap doesn't have a number pattern.

the cap doesn't have #'s on it because when the distributor is out of the head, the shaft (and therefore rotor) can spin freely; and when the distributor is installed, it can rotate a lot more than 90-degrees. In short, you can orient the rotor so that spark plug wire #1 can be at any of the 4 posts.
When reinstalling, there's no exacting method of getting the shaft aligned in the same exact cam splines. Even the Haynes manual suggest to align the rotor approximately 90-degrees from where it was originally when first inserting the distributor into the head.

UPDATE:

Alright, I found my compression tester and got some puzzling results.

185-0-0-0

WTF? Something is obviously not right here.

The head had a small bit of carbon build up but the valves and seats were pretty clean. Not nearly bad enough to cause these results.

What am I missing here? My bottom end has 230k on it, but its not like the cylinders are going to lose compression overnight.



3 bent valves or the crank to cam timing is off.


Are you SURE you have the timing chain on correctly? Since that's the main thing that's changed, that's where I'd start looking first. If that's OK, maybe the head got set down on some of the valves while you had it in storage- that could have bent the valves.


Hard to say for sure without more checking + info from you..... ;)

Bret

Thanks Bret, good to hear from a local.

I'm pretty damn sure the timing chain is on right. The marks are exactly where they were with the old head. As far as damaging the valves... I took the head off my parts car about a month ago, and I know I didnt set it down and bend the valves. Would I actually be able to see the valves bent?

Thanks Bret, good to hear from a local.

I'm pretty damn sure the timing chain is on right. The marks are exactly where they were with the old head. As far as damaging the valves... I took the head off my parts car about a month ago, and I know I didnt set it down and bend the valves. Would I actually be able to see the valves bent?

Probably not.

It doesnt' take much for a bent valve to allow compression to escape.

I would double + triple check the timing chain. Seems highly unlikely that 3 adjoining cylinders have bent valves- but I guess it could be possible. If the timing chain is installed incorrectly, the valves could be opening as the pistons are coming up on their stroke- so you would have -0- compression. But it seems odd to me that 3 cylinders would have the timing off like that without any other damage (like piston/valve contact).

Did you try to rotate the engine or crank it while having the timing chain off it's marks?? This could bend valves- then even if you corrected it, the valve(s) still would not seal.

Regardless of the cause, you're gonna have to get the compression up in those 3 cylinders or the car will not start....

Bret

the firing order like you put on your picture is correct . i have same problem on my orange car. and the car won't start now. i change just the spark plug and the copufire electric point and the car don't start anymore. no idea what happened to it.

I bent 6 intake valve on my 323i just bumping it with the starter when the timing belt was a mere 1 tooth off....It can happen and like they say it doesn't take much to bend them.

Looks like my warped head will be going back on tonight.

I spent the entire afternoon checking EVERYTHING, and the only thing I can think of is the valves in cylinders 2-4 somehow mysteriously got bent, even though it came from a running car and I was very careful not to damage the valves when storing and handling the head.

I'm going to take the head to a machine shop and get it checked out, and hopefully my warped head will last me long enough to get it fixed.:shifty

Looks like my warped head will be going back on tonight.

I spent the entire afternoon checking EVERYTHING, and the only thing I can think of is the valves in cylinders 2-4 somehow mysteriously got bent, even though it came from a running car and I was very careful not to damage the valves when storing and handling the head.

I'm going to take the head to a machine shop and get it checked out, and hopefully my warped head will last me long enough to get it fixed.:shifty

Hate to hear that Phil.

Are you using Cylinder Head Specialties?? If so, George can probably check for bent valves while you wait- if he's not super busy when you drop it off.

EDIT: OR, he could probably shave the warped head if that's all that's wrong with it......

Bret.

UPDATE:

You guys should get a kick out of this one.

After spending all weekend trying to figure out this problem, the cause finally became QUITE obvious to me.
As I was about to pull the head off and swap the warped one back in, I found a little piece of paper towel peeking out by one of the intake valves. Then i remembered:

I DIDN'T REMOVE THE PAPER TOWELS I HAD STUFFED IN THERE TO PLUG UP THE PORTS!!:eek:

And wouldn't you know it that the only cylinders with paper towel pieces wedged between the valves and the seats were # 2, 3, and 4, the same ones with no compression.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n279/peperry/IMG_3009.jpg

Just got done getting everything cleaned up and put back together. The car runs GREAT now and no more coolant leaking into the cylinders. Also, after the car warmed up, I ran another compression test and got 185-190-190-185:redspot



Man I feel like a complete Idiot, but driving the E21 again made me all better:buttrock

:)


Never heard that actually happening to anyone- but I've *almost* caught myself doing the same thing a couple of times.....


Good to hear that it wasn't anything too terrible.

stoner.... Ive put intake and exhaust gaskets on wrong but nothing like that

On the baur we put an intake gasket on upside down and had a horrendous air leak, took a little while to find the gasket that was on upside down...