I am looking to get an 850 sooner or later, but I have a couple of questions I hope you veterans can help me with. Ideally I'd like to get an 850CSi, but that's probably a pipe dream. The big things I'm looking for are the V-12, black interior and exterior, manual tranny, and reliability. I thought I saw that the Ci's are all autos, so it would either be the CSi or the i. I saw a beautiful 91 850i on autotrader with 33K miles for $25,900. On the one hand it has low miles, but on the other, it's 91 technology (OBD I) and 16 years old. How do you guys like your older i's? Should I hold out for a later model year?

Also, I have a question about the price. KBB puts its value at about $17-18k for dealer retail, and Edmunds puts it even lower at 8-9k. Why the big spread in value?

Because it's really hard to find one with so few miles as your example. Lots of the premium cars are sold privately so the retail data doesn't get picked up by the dealer network for the price guides.

With regular maintence the cars are reliable. If you can do some of the work yourself it helps to offset the costs. Other than OBD II starting in '96 there is not a big difference in the engines. I would suggest to find the best maintained and lowest mileage car you can.

Thanks. I just wanted to know I wasn't going to pay $20K+ for a $9K car!

I found a 91 850i in NJ for $21,900 with 52,000 miles on it. 6-speed, black on black. From a dealer. Lots of pics, they all look clean. What do you think? Deal or no deal?

I guess you're not in NJ to go look at the car? I would ask someone from the NJ regional forum to go and look at the car and maybe recommend a shop for a prepurchase inspection. I couldn't spend that much money for that type of car without a very detailed inspection.

That money for that car does not seem out of line. It is at the top of chart so the car would have be near perfect.

Thanks, I'll ask around in the NJ forum. Do you think another shop is necessary to inspect if it's coming from a dealer? Am I naive in thinking they would have their own techs inspect and give an honest analysis?

As Regan used to say, "Trust, but verify".

I'm new hear, but I am a professional ASE cert Mechanic residing in northern NJ. I ran past many 8 series cars and If its in my area, I will be happy to take a look at it for you at no cost.
Email me. GOTHICVW at a o l dot com

Pitt

Well tomorrow is the big day *gulp*. Going to NJ to make the purchase...

Take this with you. I spent a long time writing this and hope it will help you get a good car and/or a good price.

E31 Pre-Purchase checklist (http://www.e31faq.com/info/00/BuyersGuide/BMWE31_PrePurchaseChecklist.pdf)

If you are pressed for time, use this written by Jim

Pre Purchase Short list (http://www.e31faq.com/info/00/BuyersGuide/BMWE31_PrePurchase.pdf)

You may also want to heed the following words of Jud Spencer (The Archive owner of E31 inventory)

Purchasing an 8er requires great care and due diligence. These three rules are key to a successful ownership experience:

Rule #1: "Never" buy an 850/840 without complete service records. If you think you can retrieve the records working with the dealer and previous owners, great. If not, you will never know if this car has been properly been taken care of. The E31 requires annual preventive maintenance. A lot of the 8 Series were driven into the ground by subsequent owners...and it literally takes anywhere from $5k to $15k to bring them back to peak operating condition because of the deferred maintenance ($$ depends on whether it's a V8 or V12). If you find an 850/840 and it doesn't have complete service records, then it's an "automatic" $5k deduction off the price being asked. Why? Because you'll probably have unknown issues to deal with.

Rule #2: Get the car thoroughly checked out by a mechanic/dealer before buying the car; or use a pre-purchase inspection list (or both). Unless you're a knowledgeable auto guy, it's good to get this car checked out before making the deal.

Rule #3: Price and quality of the car's condition are the same. If the price of an E31 seems a bit higher than most E31's...and the car has complete records, shines through an inspection process, etc., then the price is appropriate if it's slightly higher than the other used E31's. Buy an 8er from an enthusiast if you can.

Above all "Good Luck". Please let me know if I can help in any way.

Well I chickened out of buying it, although I somewhat regret it. Having looked over the car I found a lot of cosmetic problems I didn't like, such as plastic trim pieces coming off the interior, the computer LCD being borked up, the driver's door seal disintegrating, missing tools, rust on the exhaust, and the wipers scraping on the hood. There were a couple of electrical questions I had too that the salesman couldn't help me with. One of the electric rear view mirrors adjusts side to side, and the other does up and down, but neither does both. The headlights were a little screwy too. if you turn on the parking lights, one of the fogs lights up on one side and one of the low beams lights up on the other. If you turn on low beams, it reverses.

As far as I can tell its mechanically sound otherwise, but I'm no mechanic. I took it for a test drive and it seemed fine. They say it's got a new clutch and new brakes.

They bought it at auction so they don't have any other history on it other than carfax. I know in the post above you said stay away from such a car, but a mechanic I talked to about potentially inspecting it said although good, the history isn't necessary (it just makes his job easier).

Now I know this isn't a new car, but it does only have 52xxx miles on it. What of these things are commensurate with age, and what should a buyer be worried about? If he's still got it for sale on monday, I'm considering asking him to let another mechanic look at it and then I might reconsider.

Now, I need this car to be a reliable daily driver (I already have one project car sitting dead in the garage). I know if I truly wanted a "sensible" dd, I'd get a civic or something, but my spirit isn't that beaten down (yet). My question to the forums are:

From the description I have given, did I overreact in walking away from a black on black manual 850i with 52k miles? Is it worth it for me to have a mechanic look over it and reconsider?

Can an 850i be a reliable daily driver?

Your help is appreciated.

The low and fog lights use the same bulb type and socket so it could be as simple as someone twisting the harness enough to swap the bulbs around but there is also the possibility that it is a body shop wiring screwup during a repair job.

Did you run a Carfax or Autocheck?

I usually find mis-wired lights a good loud warning signal to look deeper.

You can make a offer with deductions to fix all the thing you listed, If they go for it cool, If not there will be more for sale during the winter season but a Manual is HARD to find first of all, And to find it in your color preference is worth negotiating!

For a manual trans car in crappy shape I would get the price dropped as low as possible then rip it out for my car. That is how rare they are, plus a manual 750 four door would be great!

He's not going to drop the price significantly. I could probably get him to lower it a few hundred or max $1000 for credit towards fixing things, but he says it's the cleanest one he's seen so he certainly doesn't consider it crappy.

He's not going to drop the price significantly. I could probably get him to lower it a few hundred or max $1000 for credit towards fixing things, but he says it's the cleanest one he's seen so he certainly doesn't consider it crappy.

If it's what you want go for it! It's a BMW (Not to downgrade a Ford, but you are not looking to maticulously buy a Ford)! These Cars where made great, not goods!

Now if it's smoking don't get it! If won't crank, don't get it! if it won't go over 50 in high gear, Don't get it!

I love this forum. But some of you guys / girls act as it you are buying a Hyundai!

These cars were made in the mid 90s. This is a period were some of the best German & Japanese cars were ever made!

When I bought mines, I had cars for transportation. I wanted A Driving Machine! I got It!

Again, 8's are not F-22 Raptors, Close but Not!


My .2 or .3 cents
840ways to C :redspot

There's plenty of 8's for sale, If he doesn't give you a break shop around, His car will go no where fast, Check the bay, Craigslist etc... Plenty of manuals also!

Yes, I saw a few 6-speeds on autotrader, but most weren't black on black which is what I was hoping for. Plus most have 100k+ miles on them. You really think he won't move it fast? He told me he already had another buyer lined up, but I don't know how truthful that was...

That's a sellers favorite line, "I have others waiting"?

lol, yeah. Sometimes I trust people too much (would you like my social security number?) I'll shoot him an email and see what he says. If he already had another buyer, he'll probably blow me off. If he never did, I assume he'll bite.

Here is a great 8 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-BMW-850I-6-SPEED-LOW-MILES-LIKE-NEW-BMW-840_W0QQitemZ120172277139QQihZ002QQcategoryZ6130QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem): black on black, rims, manual, and beautiful. Too bad he probably wants like 20K for it.

Looks nice, I saw it yesterday and watched the sales video, Lachlan could ask the seller what's his reserve to get an idea if it's worth watching it or not, A decent offer will make these guys end the auction early sometimes too.

yeah, that's the one I was looking at, lol!

Ok I asked if it would be ok for Mr. M Car to take a look at the car, and the salesman's making excuses about why he can't take it down to his shop for an inspection. I'm wondering if there's some reason they don't want an independent mechanic to look at it...

I found this one on autotrader, but the dealer says the owner he's consigning it for won't back down on price because he put on a $4grand exhaust and new bilstein shocks and so forth.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=231524561&dealer_id=100007340&car_year=1991&model=850CSI&num_records=25&make3=BMW&make2=BMW&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&model3=850I&model2=850CI&search_lang=&make=BMW&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceASC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=45434&advanced=y&end_year=2008&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=&cardist=463

The eBay one looks pretty nice - aside from the f*cked pixels on the computer (which would really annoy me). New exhaust? At 52k?

The manual transmission is nice though.

Yeah it is nice, but like I said the dealer seems to be doing everything possible not to let me have an independent mechanic thoroughly look it over.

There's no reason as to why dealer/seller should not let an independent mechanic look at it. Sure, folks get annoyed, but a buyer is dropping serious cash! I say, if the seller wants a sale, they should honor an independent inspection. I stay away from fellas who won't allow their car to be inspected. JM2C.

Unless he's got some Headers etc... The exhaust must be upgraded from the heads back to cost that much.

I don't know. It's not stock or anything, its some fancy-pants brand. I bet whoever installed it charged him a lot too. It looks nice, but I'm not pecunious enough not to notice the ~$5-6000 upcharge.

The first one hasn't broken $15K on ebay yet. I'm thinking if I can get it for under $17k, the difference would cover anything the dealer might be hiding.

Looks like the one in NJ ended at 17,1 on ebay, reserve not met. I bet this guy paid a lot for it at auction and now he's realizing he paid more than he can get for it.

There's a Twin Turbon on the block now, Go and test drive that puppy!

I guess this guy really doesn't want my money. I don't know why. I called him and said I noticed his car didn't sell on ebay, and I'd like to consider buying it if they would take it to a mechanic to be inspected. They gave me the "I'll call you back in 10 minutes" which of course they didn't.

Here's another nice Automatic, I think it's a scam but not sure!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-BMW-850i-Red-V-12_W0QQitemZ260173300011QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6130QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

boo automatic!

Thanks anyway, but I really want a 6-speed.

I totally understand, If you ever put Turbos on it a auto would be the way to go, No boost lost inbetween shifts, Just Bodies pinned to the seat! N A tuning is better for the sticks, Sticks are a Gem to have, Good luck!

I found another! I wish i would of seen it sooner, Who knows? Maybe it want sell!!! Make them a offer and I could swing by and inspect it if you like!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=140169218056

That's a beauty. I am intrigued though - where are these cup holders that the seller mentions?

There probably the little flippy one's inside the bottom glove box.

Oh yeah, the stock ones that "supposedly" are cup holders :D Those things crack me up each time I open the glove box!

it looks good, but I really really want black on black. And darn it, I'm going to get it!

Finally the dealer got back to me. He's agreed to take it to the independent mechanic (Mr. M Car) so I can finally see if it's a good car or not.

Good luck, I hope it's a winner!

I hope its a winner, and I'm not a wiener!

Here is one for you, its Black and a CSi
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-8-Series-850CSI-850-CSI-850CSI-M8-33K-Miles-Black-Black-6SPD-Rare_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6130QQihZ019QQitem Z290173988153QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Damn, that's hot. I think I've seen those pictures before though (the back drop gives it away). I would take it in a heartbeat for $25K, but this is sure to be $40+ by the end of the auction

It looks to be worth around 45 to 50K.

I hope its a winner, and I'm not a wiener!

so what did the indepenedent mechanic say?

He gave me a list of things wrong:

85.00 mirror switch? for non functioning mirrors
45.00 correct fog/low beam wiring
60.00 only one horn works
1400.00 +- for both mufflers, rotting thru
175.00 replace leaking differential left output shaft seal & O ring
128.00 replace both front sway bar links-boots torn
425.00 replace n/g right rear wheel bearing
200.00+ replace left seat bottom control cables-only right side of seat cushion moves
100.00 replace left seat control switch? headrest doesn't move
100.00 replace right seat control switch? headrest only clicks-won't move
25.00 replace broken gas door hinge
257.00 +/- 2 hours labor for torn left door gasket-yikes that's an expensive one!
325.00 +/- 2 or so hours labor to remove instrument cluster & replace LCD panel
525.00 to replace bad (pixel problem) on board computer
125.00 minor service

So a total of about $4,000 in maintenance at a BMW dealer. Additionally he noted that the wheels were the wrong offset (I saw the same ones on a Pontiac G6 the other day) and the nose has been repainted, although there is no structural damage indicating an accident (clean carfax too). I asked him his overall impression and he gave it an 8/10, despite the aforementioned issues. He said it was very clean, and verified that the brakes and clutch are new. Assured me there were no problems with the engine/tranny etc. Well, I looked at the list and decided there were a few things that I didn't really care about for the moment like the headrests, LCD pixels, horn, etc. Then there were things I could take care of myself for much less, like the headlight wiring (someone switched the low beam and the fog on one side), mufflers, sway bar links, etc. So I figure it's really much less than four grand in repairs. The things that really bothered me were the wheel bearing and the leaky differential. But the mechanic assured me the differential was in good working order and only needed a new o ring, so I could probably take care of that. I'm having the dealer do the wheel bearing which he thinks he can get done for less than the above quoted price. In the end, I'm taking it as-is plus a fixed wheel bearing for about $1500 less than what he was going to sell it to me originally.

The thing that's really going to bite me is the wheels. They look nice, but I don't like having an improper offset. It changes the suspension geometry and puts extra stress on the wheel bearings (coincidence?). I'd like some replica M parallels, but between new wheels and tires its about $1200.

If you are a DIY guy this list really isnt a big deal and you can do most of it yourself and save a sh*tload of labor costs........door gaskets aint cheap.....you most likely wont use BMW mufflers when Magnaflows are $150ish each in stainless........might want to let him do the wheel bearing though and take care of the rest at your leisure.......

i should mention its the bottom door gasket thats torn, not the window one. I think the mechanic looked at the wrong part no.

Well I am now an official 8er owner! Car is paid for and should be delivered saturday.

Welcome to the fold!