You know, I never could get a straight answer from GC guys concerning my issue or questions.....
I've talked with Dale and Jay and they both really could not answer me, maybe they did not understand what I was trying to explain....

It's about my shocks and spring combo....
I bought the complete coil over kit from GC without the shocks with 500 front and 550 rear springs (linear of course), due to they were all back ordered on the shocks at the time.
So I bought the front top adjustable S/A from Koni and and the rear top adjustable S/A Koni's from TCKline.

I know it's kind of complicated but please bear with me....
Well here it goes... this is what I was explaining to the guys at GC and could not get a straight answer to see if it was normal or not...

During and after the installation, the fronts, when the suspension is fully lifted, the springs don't even come close to the upper spring perch, there's like 2"-3" gap between the top of the spring and the bottom of the camberplate/top spring perch.

The rear, when it's completely lifted with both tires off the ground, the rear springs, they are just sitting on top of the bottom spring perch/height adjuster and don't even touch the upper spring perch/plastic cone.

Although, when the car's lowered, it seems to drive fine and I even thought the car handled pretty well at the auto-x.

But still....at first I thought this was normal due to the springs being so short and all, but more and more I've been looking into this, I think there's something wrong.....
I've seen other pictures of the GC street coilover kits, and the fronts certainly don't have that big gap...I mean, it's actually fully assembled and the springs are touching the top and bottom perch with no gap.
I even talked with some of the guys who uses PSS9 kits, and they even thought it was a little odd....

Anyways, I was very disappointed at GC for their lack of information, just because I didn't buy the shocks through them.
They didn't even include the bearing for the upper spring perch when I bought the kit...I found out later after the system was completely installed that they do not supply the new bearing if you do not buy the shocks through them....WTF...I paid for the complete kit, everything but the shocks???? So needless to say I had to pay another 1.5 hours of labor to remove and install the original off of the stock shock tower. And when I called them about it, the guy actually got an attitude about it...talk about a
sh!tty customer support....anyways, enough about my run in with GC....

Could it be the shocks I got from Koni and TCKline be too long?
If my shocks are too long, does this mean that the shocks are actually 95%+ compressed already when the car's lowered using the short springs from GC?
If so, what can I do to get the shocks shorter?
Do I need to order new ones or should I have like Tri-Point guys shorten the shocks, since they are authorized Koni rebuild center?

I NEED SOME PROFESSIONAL INPUT...PLEASE.

Sorry, didn't mean to write a book.....:smiliecap

What bearing are you talking about? The stock upper strut bearing plates?

Also, what length are your springs? From what I've gathered you need 6" front springs and 7" rear springs to not have them unseat at full droop with the regular length koni's.

I'm really interested in what you find out, as I have the same TC Kline konis as you and was thinking about getting the GC coilover kit.

Originally posted by foofoo11

I NEED SOME PROFESSIONAL INPUT...PLEASE.

Sorry, didn't mean to write a book.....:smiliecap
I can answer you about the springs. There is nothing wrong. Since you have the full length front and rear Konis, you are going to get more drop when you raise the car. The spacing of your springs would be normal. For your rears, make sure you engage the parking brake before you raise the car and the rear will not drop as far and your rear springs may stay seated under the upper spring perch.

In your post, you mentioned "camber plates" in passing. Let's clear up the terminology. Do you actually have adjustable camber plates in the front? Whose? Ground Control? FWIW, if you have GC's coilover kit, you don't even use your stock upper strut bearing.

Finally, I think GC's information online is pretty clear that their adjustable coilover kit only includes the height adjustable springs and not any upper strut bearings.

foofoo, random points:

No coilvoer kit comes with upper front strut bearings, known as strut hats or camber plates (guide supports in the ETK). Aftermarket adjustable camber plates are expensive, and are puchased separately (although I think on the GC site they may sorta 'package' them together in their aggressive track 'kit'). Stock ones are 75ish apiece IIRC.

Suspension setups are composed of a group of inter-related components. For example, for a lowered car with short springs, you need front struts that are shortened. When you mixed and matched struts and springs, you did not get an engineered setup. I personally would never run a full length front strut with lowering springs.

A gap b/t the spring and perch, or b/t the perch and strut bearing when the front end is at full droop is normal. Dont' worry about it.

The rear springs loose at full droop is normal too, depending on spring length, stiffness, and particular model of rear shock. My aren't loose at full droop (550lb 7" spring with E30 M3 rear Koni shocks), but shorter, stiffer springs and rear shocks with more droop travel will let the spring get loose.

My guess is that GC cannot help you with your issues, b/c TCK spec'd dampers that GC would not have. Full length front struts and the Koni-recommended rear shock for E36 M3's (which GC usually does not spec in their kits).

I'd recommend you talk with TCK, since they sold you the dampers, and should be the ones helping you, as your issues are damper travel related.

Frayed,

GC does indeed sell a kit that uses full length koni's for the e36 m3. It's their "street" kit, if you want the shortened koni's, they package that as their "street/track" kit.

So GC should be able to support those of us who bought our full length koni's from another vendor without any problems.

Recently on the VW auto-x list someone posted a bad experience with GC. It seems their customer service has been lacking lately.

Could be lacking, dunno.

As to their sales of full length struts, yeah I know. However, the fact remains that for lowered cars, you should have a shortened front strut to get travel back in the front suspension. . . I wouldn't lower my car for looks and give up suspension travel.

foofoo, did you tell GC you were going to use full length struts when you bought the springs? Did they know your plan, and sell you the springs to use with the TCK stuff? Did you ask TCK whether your springs would work with TCKs dampers?

Perhaps answers here would shed light on who should be burning time to fix your problem.

Sorry for the lack of info.... I have E46M3 set up...and the street/track kit I bought from GC included the adjustable camber plates...like I said, they supposedly sold me the complete kit, just without the shocks.
I supposedly purchased the following kit, everything in the kit except the shocks.
http://www.ground-control.com/coke46m3.jpg

Originally posted by frayed
A gap b/t the spring and perch, or b/t the perch and strut bearing when the front end is at full droop is normal. Dont' worry about it.


In fact thats why some C/Os come with helper springs (like my PSS9s). The helper spring is only there to take up the slack under full droop.

Thanks for all the info btw....I will check with TCK and find out if the shocks are the right length.
I thought I explained to GC when I bought their kit that I will be ordering the shocks separately, and I explained to Koni and TCK that I was planning on getting the coilover kit from GC with the rate of springs and everything....and this is where I am right now.

foofoo, what is the front thread sleeve sitting on? (the red piece) It looks like it's resting on the sway bar mount point. Is that the case?

Frayed, my springs will bottom out before the strut is fully compressed - look at the picture I posted above. So I guess I still do not understand.

The bottom threaded spring perch sits on top of the shock. It actually does hit the swaybar bracket/mount but you have to modify the bracket(cut or grind down) so the perch will sit flush on top of the shock...at least that's what GC told me to do and I did. There was like 3/8" that i had to shave down to make the sleeve fit without hitting the bracket...

Originally posted by foofoo11
Sorry for the lack of info.... I have E46M3 set up...and the street/track kit I bought from GC included the adjustable camber plates...like I said, they supposedly sold me the complete kit, just without the shocks.
I supposedly purchased the following kit, everything in the kit except the shocks.
http://www.ground-control.com/coke46m3.jpg
Well thanks for finally telling us that its an E46. I guess we should have asked.

But in any case, I can still answer one of your questions. Look at your picture. The front strut assemblies with the camber plates do not use the stock upper strut bearings. You just bolt them up. I know because I have the camber plates also!

And I don't know what your other problem is? There is nothing wrong with the spacing on your springs. Its okay that there is space when you raise the car!

So what's the problem?

Foo foo.... c'mon, you want to start in about bad customer support after I called you back and answered your questions, what....5-6 times?
A couple of times when I called you back, you asked me a question ONLY about the shocks, and I answered. (Remember asking me about the dent in the stock shock, and on another seperate call when I answered your question about where the washers go on the bottom of the shock?
The specific answer to your confusion regarding how you ended up with the parts you have is simple:
You think you bought a complete GC street/track kit, without the shocks, but you didn't (and couldn't). You bought a camber plate kit, that has every single part necessary to convert an e46M3 to camber plates. You also bought a Coil-over kit, that has every part needed to convert an e46M3 to coil-overs. You also bought rear shock mounts, that will bolt to any e46m3.
This does not necessarily mean that just by adding shocks, that you will have exactly the same thing as we would sell. (And I would LOVE to sell it, I promise. I am SOOO frustrated by Koni...)
When you buy these parts, from GC and TC Kline, you also need to use some parts from BMW.
The bearings that you need are on your car from the factory, and the directions clearly say to use the factory bearing. The guys who put them on your car should have read the directions, and even if they didn't, I would hope they realize that a bearing should be in there (exactly like stock), and not just blindly put it back together. They should not have charged you again.
No hard feelings, I just don't want to work so hard and still get a bad rap.
My analogy. You go to the grocery store and buy a cup of coffee to go. They give you a bit of free cream and sugar.
You go to the same grocery store and buy a jar of coffee, and you go next door and buy a cup. Then you bring it some guy who has hot water. But nobody gives you the cream and sugar because they don't know exactly what you are trying to make!
Jay Morris

PS for the rest of you: GC spec rear konis for e46 are shorter than stock, and GC front struts are shorter too. Afaik, TCK are same as stock. which should still not be a problem anyway. JM

Originally posted by Hellabad
Foo foo.... c'mon, you want to start in about bad customer support after I called you back and answered your questions, what....5-6 times?
A couple of times when I called you back, you asked me a question ONLY about the shocks, and I answered. (Remember asking me about the dent in the stock shock, and on another seperate call when I answered your question about where the washers go on the bottom of the shock?
The specific answer to your confusion regarding how you ended up with the parts you have is simple:
You think you bought a complete GC street/track kit, without the shocks, but you didn't (and couldn't). You bought a camber plate kit, that has every single part necessary to convert an e46M3 to camber plates. You also bought a Coil-over kit, that has every part needed to convert an e46M3 to coil-overs. You also bought rear shock mounts, that will bolt to any e46m3.
This does not necessarily mean that just by adding shocks, that you will have exactly the same thing as we would sell. (And I would LOVE to sell it, I promise. I am SOOO frustrated by Koni...)
When you buy these parts, from GC and TC Kline, you also need to use some parts from BMW.
The bearings that you need are on your car from the factory, and the directions clearly say to use the factory bearing. The guys who put them on your car should have read the directions, and even if they didn't, I would hope they realize that a bearing should be in there (exactly like stock), and not just blindly put it back together. They should not have charged you again.
No hard feelings, I just don't want to work so hard and still get a bad rap.
My analogy. You go to the grocery store and buy a cup of coffee to go. They give you a bit of free cream and sugar.
You go to the same grocery store and buy a jar of coffee, and you go next door and buy a cup. Then you bring it some guy who has hot water. But nobody gives you the cream and sugar because they don't know exactly what you are trying to make!
Jay Morris
First of all, let's get this straight...you did not call me, I called you on most of the issues...I've even asked Dale to have you give me a call back concerning my issue, but you never did.
I'm not saying you guys completely failed on customer support, all I'm saying is that there should have been better information provided with your product, or be more clear on what to re-use or not use....
When I bought the kit from you GC(it was Dale)...I specifically asked about the complete street setup that you were advertising for $1699, here's a direct quote from your site:
"Think about it: No spring compressors, no trimming stock bumpstops, no special wrenches. Just remove your suspension, set it in the corner of the garage, and install something truly innovative.$1699 with s/a Koni"
At that time you guys told me that the shocks were not available so I ordered everything else on that kit without the shocks. Now from what Dale told me was that the strut bearing comes with the complete kit, but I did not get the bearing because I did not order the shocks from you guys???
I don't get it, if I bought everything in the kit but the shocks, should I not get the new bearing which supposedly comes with the kit? Or at least at the time of order, it should have been more clear? and now you saying, "You think you bought a complete GC street/track kit, without the shocks, but you didn't (and couldn't). You bought a camber plate kit, that has every single part necessary to convert an e46M3 to camber plates. You also bought a Coil-over kit, that has every part needed to convert an e46M3 to coil-overs. You also bought rear shock mounts, that will bolt to any e46m3. This does not necessarily mean that just by adding shocks, that you will have exactly the same thing as we would sell. (And I would LOVE to sell it, I promise. I am SOOO frustrated by Koni...)" Why not?? that was exactly what I was trying to accomplish!!! Only thing you guys didn't have at the time was the shocks and those are the only items I bought to add to the missing link(street/track kit)...
Second, there were no instructions in the box that the kit came in that said to re-use the stock bearings (maybe you guys forgot to pack that in the box). In fact, when I called specifically to ask about how the upper spring perch fits unto the camber plate (because it looked so odd without the bearing), how the upper spring perch gets supported by an 1/8" lip on the camber plate, even then you guys(Dale) did not mention that I needed to "re-use" the stock bearing to support the upper spring perch.
Only when I called you after the kit was already installed and told you that it was making weird noises, that's when you sent me a clear photo/diagram of exactly what I needed to reuse.
BTW, I still have that email you sent me, it's a great info.
But Jay, I'm just curious why such a precise and clear photo instructions that you already have, are not in the box when the kits are sent out...
Perhaps there were some misunderstanding but even Leif Vanderberg (President of BMWCCA LA)who was there at Avus at the time could not believe that the info was not provided more clearly with the kit.
I guess live and learn....don't buy GC components unless your buying the whole or complete kits???
I'll say on last thing though, GC components seems to be very well designed and well built.

My point is that you had every part you needed when your car was at the shop. There was no need for us to send you duplicate parts that BMW provides on the car. I don't get why those guys couldn't figure it out.
BTW it says on the upper right of the directions "STOCK NYLON BEARING (BLACK AND YELLOW)" with an arrow pointing towards it. I just thought this was clear enough. I will revisit the directions and figure out some way to make it even more obvious.
Thanks, Jay