Hi, last week, I raced against my friends car on the highway. I have a E36 M3 1995 and he has a 1.8t 2003 Jetta. I was faster, BUT not that much. He is stock, and i'm stock too. at the end of my 3rd...I was only 1 car in front??? Is it normal??

Please help me

Doesn't sound too normal. Either you had a bad start and he had a good one, he has a 1 Bar chip, or there's something wrong with your car.

OTOH, BMWs aren't really dragsters, so what can you say?

that was on the highway...??? I really don't understand

Not that odd really. The 180 horse Jetta/Golfs are pretty quick on the freeway. From a stop you should roast him because of you traction advantage. But on the freeway turbo cars shine. My buddies girlfriend has a 2002 1.8 Jetta and he took it out one day and we were flying on the freeway. I could beat him for sure in my 98 ///M with some mods but I didnt totally dominate him. Those cars are pretty quick for stock. If he woulda had the chip I am sure I would not have been able to pull very well at all if at all.

I hope everyone is joking...to think that a Jetta is almost as fast as my ///M is...well...I'm lost for words.

JT

Originally posted by JT///M3
I hope everyone is joking...to think that a Jetta is almost as fast as my ///M is...well...I'm lost for words.

JT

Hey your from Rancho? Im from Chino not so far away=)
Maybe me n u go have a go at it on the freeway one day.
You think everyones joking that a Jetta is faster then an ///M or YOUR ///M theres a difference:)

I went to a bmw dealer and they said that it is possible because a Jetta 1.8t 2003(180hp) is lighter than a bmw. But on the start, I'm faster....a lot faster..

Your buddy might have been slightly modified..then again the 2002s are underrated and have better gearing than the previous years. I have a 1.8t with a chip as my only power mod. I played with some M3 from around here and we were pretty even, sometimes Id pull sometimes hed pull (depending on the gear of course). From a stop light the M3 would have the advantage due to RWD and less torque. It should hook up and fly. The 1.8t and its fwd tires wont fully grip till half way through second gear.

The best 1.8t ive seen with a chip/intake/exhaust dyno'd at 205 whp/277 ft torque on stock turbo.

We also have an AUTOMATIC Jetta with the same boltons that ran 13.5 @ 101 MPH

1.8t can be quick but theres a reason im in the market for mpower and thats handling. To me having 250ft of torque to the front wheels is just not fun anymore. Im not happy with the VWs handling at all. I could mod the hell out of my 1.8t but I think id be happer inside of a M3/Mcoupe - even if its a tad slower.

ok but my friend's car is not midified at all, not even a p-flow. I'm faster than him, but not as much as I tought. I tought I would kill him. But with the posts, I'm reassured.

Any other comments?

stock 180hps feel slow as hell to me
get your buddy to start moddin`

I have a stock e36 M3 and it runs well ON THE HIGHWAY against a lot of cars, including a custom 400 hp mustang.

The interesting thing is it will stay even but will not necessarily gain or lose-- speculation is that it is very difficult for cars to "simply walk away" from one another on the highway unless there is an extreme difference in power to weight and/or gearing.

I asked someone how the BMW could seem to do so well with only 240 hp, and he said that (take this with a grain of salt) the BMW drivetrain is "much more effecient" than the GM/Ford units--therefore is able to do more with what it has.

That's my real world experience--I'm not surprised at all that the Jetta kept up. I had one hang with me too for quite a while.

That's why I have come to the conclusion that driving feel is at least as important than outright speed.

Ham

Originally posted by bimmermax
I went to a bmw dealer and they said that it is possible because a Jetta 1.8t 2003(180hp) is lighter than a bmw. But on the start, I'm faster....a lot faster..

You went to a BMW dealership and asked them as to why you lost to a Jetta??? :rolleyes: I lost words.

yes, my friend is working in a bmw dealer and I spoke with the technicians there...

My 2001 Jetta with a $325 1.0 bar Upsolute chip and a $36 Audi TT diverter valve as its only mods pulled on my friends 1998 M3 convertible 5 speed. We went from a ~ 25 MPH roll to 100 MPH and the Jetta kept pulling. The M ended up less than a car length behind, but he is a very proficient driver.

Surprised?

The Jetta has weight advantage - 2,980 lb curb weight. HP/TQ estimates with the chip are 210/250 and the stock 3.94 gearing gets it moving quickly. The turbo spools instantly and is an incredible rush. The car is a monster compared to the 150/162 HP/TQ slug that it was when stock.

We didn't race from a stop but the M would have killed my Jetta because of the front wheel drive....but from a roll, different story.

I think Adam said it well.

That same exact engine is used in many of VW Group makers all over Europe i.e. Audi, VW, Seat, Scoda. Stock powerplants produce from 150HP or 180HP to 225HP (with twin intercoolers). A simple chip upgrade turns these cars to little 'monsters'.

Hey Adam, I spent over 10 yrs in Laguna Niguel/Beach, Dana Point, San Clemente. My best regards to beautiful So Cal.

What I noticed with the 95 M3 during my ownership of the car.

In stock form, it simply wasn't fast. However with a few mods like intake and exhaust it really came alive. That car really needs software, because the OEM program prevents the car from coming alive in the top end exactly where that car pulls best.
The OBD1 manifold is such that power is greatest up top.

I already have the JC chip so what else you think I would improve on my car???

just watch out for those vr6, i drove a tip tronic and 5 speed version, and pull nicely thru its first 3 gears, but none the less, the m3 is not a drag car, but an all around car.

I installed a 3:23 gear ratio instead of the factory 3:15, and that made a nice difference.

I would go with the EVO pulley for $350, intake and exhaust.
That would make your car purr nicely.

The chip will allow the car to read more coming in and exiting the engine which you create by having the intake and exhaust.
The pulleys reduce the drag created by heavier spinning components resisting against the engine. ie alternator etc...

Again the 3:23 gear ratio will automatically increase the car's ability to reach power sooner. You will gain in low end torque which that particular engine needs.

I have a 3:45 gear ratio. Is it good or not. The mechanic said that it is quicker on the acceleration but I have less top speed. Is it true?

There is always a compromise. With the 3:46, it pulls hard in shorter spurts since you bring your shifting points closer. However, you will indeed lose the ability to cruise comfortably especially on longer trips. Your top end will be reduced, and your fuel mileage will also suffer...

The 3:23 is the ratio they used in the 95 M3 Lightweight, as well as the later cars with the S52 engine.
It makes a nice difference all while preserving drivability.

The choice is yours. It depends on your taste and lifestyle.

Originally posted by kotsos1870
I think Adam said it well.

That same exact engine is used in many of VW Group makers all over Europe i.e. Audi, VW, Seat, Scoda. Stock powerplants produce from 150HP or 180HP to 225HP (with twin intercoolers). A simple chip upgrade turns these cars to little 'monsters'.

Hey Adam, I spent over 10 yrs in Laguna Niguel/Beach, Dana Point, San Clemente. My best regards to beautiful So Cal.

Nice! I was just there over the weekend. Had a company function at the Ritz Carlton Laguna Niguel and we stayed there. I wish I could afford to buy one of those $multi-million houses nearby! Whatcha' doing in Greece?

Sorry to thread jack.

Adam, check your private email.

Originally posted by bimmermax
I went to a bmw dealer and they said that it is possible because a Jetta 1.8t 2003(180hp) is lighter than a bmw. But on the start, I'm faster....a lot faster..




you went to a dealer to ask this question......? that sounds stupid for the following reasons


1. the dealers don't really know shit
2. why a dealer endorse racing
3. there are other ways of finding out
4. what does a BMW dealer know about VW?:confused: :confused: :confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Greg
I would go with the EVO pulley for $350, intake and exhaust.
That would make your car purr nicely.

Or, if you're cost-concious, you might be interested to know that UUC has released their pulley set and it is costing $185. Quite a savings... and you know UUC is quality product.

In a given gear, if an 1.8T is at it's torque peak, and the M3 is not, it may pull a little on the M3. For a little bit. That shouldn't be confused with outrunning an M3 over the full rpm range and range of gears. :boobies

Sounds like your car needs a tune-up.

Where did you get the 3.46 differential from?

Honestly the whole story sounds like BS. Do you drive an M3? A Stock 5 speed 95 M3 with a 3.46 rear differential would haul serious ass, we're talking about a 10% increased torque multiplier. We're talking <5.5 sec 0-60 and power that pulls hard up to the electronically limited top speed. A stock V-Dub 1.8 should get a beat down.

I made an equation for you.
(60 more hp + 40 more lbf/ft tq) X 10% torque multiplier increase = V-Dub smack down.:alright

Originally posted by Icecream ///Man
Honestly the whole story sounds like BS. Do you drive an M3? A Stock 5 speed 95 M3 with a 3.46 rear differential would haul serious ass, we're talking about a 10% increased torque multiplier. We're talking <5.5 sec 0-60 and power that pulls hard up to the electronically limited top speed. A stock V-Dub 1.8 should get a beat down.

I made an equation for you.
(60 more hp + 40 more lbf/ft tq) X 10% torque multiplier increase = V-Dub smack down.:alright

Remeber that the Jetta weighs 300 pounds less and has lower numerical gearing (3.94 versus 3.46). This race was from a roll, not from a stop. That's why the results were what they were.

I would be happy to run your or anyone elses stock E36 M3 from a roll with my Jetta.

I had a E36 318 is 1993 and i've putted a M3 engine, tranny and all the things you need....bilstein shocks, H&R springs. The guy kept thr one from the 318(3.45)....It is quicker on the start, but I don't go as fast as a stock M3....I think it's a good compromise

You need to have the car dynoed to see what the power situation really is. I thought 318s came with a 3.90 rear diff.

I think you got ripped off on the motor swap. I think you got a 2.5L motor with a M Power cover instead. Go get your money back. LOL!

can some one tell me the specs for a jetta 1.8T year 01?

Dont forget that a 95 M3 (due to its single vanos system) produces torque numbers that are within 90% of its peak from 2500-6500 rpm. Even a modded jetta 1.8t would most likely get killed by a 95 m3, especially with a 3.46 diff. Hell, I gave a modded 2001 1.8t audi a good smackdown from a rolling start with my 325is, and they produce more power than the VW version of the same engine. A turbocharged engine can produce more torque at lower revs than a N/A engine, but they will always have to wait for that turbo to spool up. What ive experienced with the 1.8 jettas is that they really suck of the line, but as speeds get higher, acceleration depends less on power/weight, and more on power/aerodynamic drag so the odds get evened out a bit.

I think I will call my friend to race again, because there is something I dind't mentionned. My check engine was lighten in my dash. The day after, I went to the dealer and the oxygen sensor was completely broken. (does it make a change on the performance)?

So if yes, I will call my friend and I will give some news of the new result. Dont forget I have the JC chip....

r6e36....no that's a real M3 engine. When I went to the dealer, I asked the guy to show me the specs of my car on his computer, and it was written M50....1995 3.0 etc. So the guy told me that was a M3 engine for sure. Dont forget....I didn't lost against my friend.....I think that with all my problems fixed, I will KILL him now:D

Originally posted by BMW_DINAN
can some one tell me the specs for a jetta 1.8T year 01?

I've got a 2001 Jetta 1.8T. What specs are you looking for? Here's the basic power stats:

AWW engine code - 1781 cubic inch K03 hybrid turbocharger (with K04 compressor wheel). Stock boost is at about 5-6 psi, which gives the car 150 HP and 162 LB FT TQ. With a 1.0 bar (14psi) chip, it makes around 210 HP and 245 TQ. Turbo lag is minimal as full boost is had around 2,000 RPM stock and 2,500 RPM chipped. Car weighs approx 2,954 pounds (mine weighs more with factory 17 inch wheels) and gearing is 3.94:1.

Originally posted by ADAM///M
I've got a 2001 Jetta 1.8T. What specs are you looking for? Here's the basic power stats:

AWW engine code - 1781 cubic inch K03 hybrid turbocharger (with K04 compressor wheel). Stock boost is at about 5-6 psi, which gives the car 150 HP and 162 LB FT TQ. With a 1.0 bar (14psi) chip, it makes around 210 HP and 245 TQ. Turbo lag is minimal as full boost is had around 2,000 RPM stock and 2,500 RPM chipped. Car weighs approx 2,954 pounds (mine weighs more with factory 17 inch wheels) and gearing is 3.94:1.

thats all i needed to know

Thank you.:clap:

ttt

Well, If your engine is a M50 then that is definately a 2.5L six from a 325i. Like I said, you got a ripped off on the engine swap.

Originally posted by bimmermax
r6e36....no that's a real M3 engine. When I went to the dealer, I asked the guy to show me the specs of my car on his computer, and it was written M50....1995 3.0 etc. So the guy told me that was a M3 engine for sure. Dont forget....I didn't lost against my friend.....I think that with all my problems fixed, I will KILL him now:D

Sorry man but a did I said M50?? It is a S50 or something like that. S50 is it a M3 engine? I saw it on the computer....It was written S50, 3.0. etc.

A few weeks ago I drove my friend's stock 2003 A4 1.8T quattro 6 speed and he drove my M3. I got wasted by my own car. There is NO comparison in power production. He's blown away by how much faster my stock 1997 M3 is. So V-dubber, is a k04 wheel on a k03 snail the stock setup? That actually sounds promising. 17psi on a 1.8 has got to be at the ragged edge of useable compressor efficiency for that housing. It is my understanding that pushing a 1.8T past 250 hp takes more serious capital.

Originally posted by Icecream ///Man
A few weeks ago I drove my friend's stock 2003 A4 1.8T quattro 6 speed and he drove my M3. I got wasted by my own car. There is NO comparison in power production. He's blown away by how much faster my stock 1997 M3 is. So V-dubber, is a k04 wheel on a k03 snail the stock setup? That actually sounds promising. 17psi on a 1.8 has got to be at the ragged edge of useable compressor efficiency for that housing. It is my understanding that pushing a 1.8T past 250 hp takes more serious capital.

You have to figure though, that the Jetta/GTI/Golf is WAY faster than the Audi for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's making 10 more horsepower. Secondly it's 500 pounds lighter, thirdly it suffers from far less driveline losses (15% versus 30%). Stock (2003) VW1.8T's usually run high 14's where that Audi runs mid 16's...just as fast as a bus. Chip it and you may be able to squeeze a mid 15, but that's it.

That makes sense. The A4 was a slug. So is your turbo stock?

Originally posted by Icecream ///Man
That makes sense. The A4 was a slug. So is your turbo stock?

Yes...stock K03 hybrid turbo (K03 wheel with K04 compressor). With a $325 chip and an upgraded $36 diverter valve, it moves :D