Anyone have any ownership experience with these two utes?
I'm in the market for a xover. I own an RL and test drove an MDX first. I wasn't blown away by the MDX.

I've been going around test driving other options. This weekend I spent about 2 hours with an X5. I drove a 3.0 and a 4.8 version. The 3.0 definitely felt underpowered. I think it's pushing 260+hp. The 4.8 felt more in line but surprisingly didn't feel much more powerful then the 3.7L on the MDX.

Putting drivetrain aside, I thought the BMW drove better then the MDX and was a little quieter. The fit and finish seemed comparable. The x5's IDrive is a little goofy, but I don't know if it's as bad as some say. I liked the wide screen LCD on the x5 and the dash layout better. I also loved the keyless start and "comfort access" option. I have that on my RL and have become spoiled.

All things being equal I would take the X5. However, things are not equal. The X5 4.8 is $69k equiped like the MDX. The only major additional feature on the X5 is the keyless start.

I know this is a BMW forum, but anyone care to try to explain why the X5 is worth $20k more then the MDX? The best deal I could do that day on that $69k X5 was $941/mth on a 36m/12k lease. The MDX was $680.

I love the keyless start, styling, and ride of the X5. I don't love the price.

do you want a german engineered bmw or something japanese?

In a recent issue of Roundel (the BMW Car Club of America magazine) these two were roadtested and compared. Surprisingly the reviewers gave the edge to the Acura. My memory for why is shaky but I think the Acura had superior stability control and as you note costs a LOT less.

do you want a german engineered bmw or something japanese?
I have no brand or region loyalty. "German Engineering" sounds great but it must translate into something tangible that I can benefit from. I'm always attracted to the styling of BMW cars, but, I want the best overall car that meets all my needs -- not just styling. In other words, lots of tech, good handling, and high reliability to not interupt my busy "middle aged" life. Power is not a priority except to say it must be able to get out of trouble.

BMW's priorities seem to be in line with mine, but, to be honest, when I do the numbers, they never add up. That's probably why I've never owned one eventhough I pass through a BMW showroom every single time I'm in the market for a new car.

My brother just picked up a new 750Li. I loved it and felt it was a good value. Since I'm starting to look for a new family vehicle, I ran down to look at the new X5, but just wasn't as impressed with the value. I spent a good hour test driving and exploring the car, but, I started this thread to get some input from true BMW lovers to help me see what I might be missing.

With the Sport Package, the X5 has a tighter, more precise feel than the MDX. The interior materials are also of somewhat higher quality. To begin with, the wood is the real thing.

But does this justify the price difference? That's a call each person must make for themselves.

If you don't need a third row, you might consider checking out the X3. It isn't that much tighter inside than the X5 but weighs much less, so performance is much better with the six and handling is much more agile. It's probably the best-handling SUV on the market. Also costs quite a bit less than the X5. The X3's ride was a bit stiff the first few years, and the interior was substandard for a BMW, but they've since upgraded both. Ditto with the exterior styling, which looks best with the current Sport Package and optional 19s. Ride so equipped might be too firm for some people, though.

If you do need a third row, then the X5 probably isn't the way to go. About the tightest on the market.

You are right about that my friend, the third row was virtually useless. I got back there but couldn't get the 2nd row seat locked back in position without sitting "side saddle". Although, I have to say, the MDX's third row isn't much better. I think all these 3rd rows in xovers are really just "jump seats" and should be considered for emergency use only.

The X3 isn't really an option because I do want a 3rd row for occasional transport of kids and the extra cargo space.

Man, I just can't hit on a clear winner in this suv category. Maybe I'll wait to see what this redesigned Lexus LX570 has to offer. On paper it looked good (except the gas mileage). Looks to be about the same cost as the X5 but you get A LOT more space and possibly more creature comforts. I'm expecting the ride and handling won't be up to the X5 or MDX caliber. That's important to me but I won't know for sure until they come out and I can test one.

The Lexus is a truck and can be expected to handle like one.

If you just need the third row for kids, any of them might do the trick. Best handling with an adult-sized third row is probably the Mazda CX-9, which also gets more power for 2008.

I personally find the one in the MDX adequate, but then I'm only 5-9. Anyone taller probably won't fit back there.

Probably get the X5 if you think the driving experience is worth the extra $20k (they have to pay for "free" maintenance somehow). MDX will likely have less problems but won't give you the same "driving" experience. They have different targets in mind, you have to decide which target you are.

Dealer called me back last night and came down to $900/mth from $941. Still too expensive. It's the nice white one on the floor loaded up with an MSRP of $69k. Unfortunately, I'm still not sold on its value. I'm especially concerned with reliability given it's the first year of a refresh. Little quirks will certainly be there.

Here's one mistake I noticed during my test drive; did anyone know that took away the seatbelt height adjuster on the B Pillar? Did they just forget about that when they were redesigning the 07? How can a $70k car not have something as basic as that? I suspect it will be back in the 08's. It's little things like that that end up annoying you more then the big things.

08's will be out in a few weeks (so I'm told). Maybe I'll wait to see what they change in them. If that cool white one is still on the floor in October, maybe I can get a better deal. To me, I see real value in that car at $750 for a 36m/12k lease and it's worth the gamble of a first year model. Anything more then that feels overpriced.

Thanks guys, for talking this out with me

Damn, that's a pretty stiff price for a lease even at $750/mth. Then again, I have never leased myself. I personally, would go with an MDX. Yes, I do own a 4.6is; but, I seriously was looking at the MDX. What swayed me to the x5 was merely because none of the acura people came out to wait on me and I ended up driving through a chevy dealership lot and saw the X5. I think when they saw me in my 4.5" lifted wrangler = yellow trash so could not afford the acura :(

The MDX is a great car for the money. Bang for buck - hard to beat IMO. Honda Pilot is great for those on a budget; but, MDX gives you more luxury and very cool tech gadgets. New MDX is out and FINALLY gets HID headlights. You save a lot of money over the x5 which could be used to fund something else. Plus, insurance on the MDX is much cheaper than the X5 (at least for me). Hands down - MDX's nav system crushes BMW's -- and is at least as good as Lexus's. Electronics wise - acura tends to hold up fairly well compared to electric crap breaking on the X5's. X5's engine/tranny typically no problems -- it's the electronic crap that gets you. Although you are leasing a new one -- gets annoying if you have to keep bringing it in for service. Plus, maintenance costs for MDX are not that expensive to justify the whole 4/50K BMW thing.

Moreover, you'll probably need to get a dedicated set of winter tires/wheels for the X5. MDX is okay with the all-seasons if you get 17" rims. I have 20" rims on my X5 and let me tell you, those 315 rear-sized tires are NOT cheap at all. You'll spend almost $1500 for all four tires every 15K - that X5 alignment wears tires out and you can't swap them. The 4.6is allows me to tow with the greater 350 ft*lbs of torque - so, helped my decision. Can't really tow with MDX.

You should also consider a Lexus GX470 - very nice car. I would get a 2005-2006 one that is certified (longer warranty). Those are around $40K and ride really nice. Mark Levinson stereo with rear seat DVD is awesome.

Put it this way, I have an X5 - but, I am looking very closely at the MDX for a daily driver.

Thanks for all your insight. The MDX is indeed a great vehicle. I liked it very much but it actually didn't have enough tech for me. I want keyless access and start. Also, I'd like to have Adaptive Cruise. I think BMW calls it Dynamic Cruise. Neither of these things are available on the MDX (too bad because they offer it on the RL).

I looked at the GX. In fact my brother has one so I've looked at it VERY closely. That has the same problem as the MDX. No keyless start or adaptive cruise, plus it's body on frame and more then I need.

After talking with you guys and thinking it through, I think I'm just going to lay low for a while and see what happens to the X5 pricing in 08. It's in high demand right now in it's first year release and theirs really no negotiating. Also, maybe there will be some rumors by then about the MY09 MDX. 09 will be the third year of that mdx design and it might get a refresh and be released in mid 08.

Well, I got my fiance the Lexus ES350 this past december as a christmas gift. That has the keyless entry -- BMW's is NOT a true keyless entry -- still need to stick that damn thing into the hole.

The Lexus has great electronics -- that NAV system kicks ass. The ML sound system is awesome. The adaptive headlights are cool -- and all of these other features like backup camera, rear seat heater/massager, etc.. are nice with the ultra-lux package. It's a great car to drive if you sit in a lot of traffic -- but, not really for me -- hence, why I decided against the LX or GX. Plus, the ES350 gets damn good gas mileage. I looked closely at the GS series; but, didn't feel it was buying me 'that' much more ... used the money I saved to buy tires and winter tires/wheels for the X5 -- you'll need it! :stickoutt

I would also look at the Mazda CX-7 and CX-9 if you are not a badge-conscious driver. It's a pretty impressive vehicle. Just can't tow enough for me. I personally, would never buy a first year production BMW car ...

Well, I got my fiance the Lexus ES350 this past december as a christmas gift. That has the keyless entry -- BMW's is NOT a true keyless entry -- still need to stick that damn thing into the hole. ...




I assume you mean keyless start... I haven't any experience with the X5 in particular, but if it's anything like the new 3 series with the "comfort entry", the doors will unlock as you pull on the lever as long as you have the key in your pocket, and the engine will start with a push of the button, again as long as the key is in your pocket, it doesn't have to be inserted (on the E90 - new 3 series at least). I would hope the push button start and comfort entry would have migrated to the newly designed X5 - although I haven't seen one in person yet, so....

I assume you mean keyless start... I haven't any experience with the X5 in particular, but if it's anything like the new 3 series with the "comfort entry", the doors will unlock as you pull on the lever as long as you have the key in your pocket, and the engine will start with a push of the button, again as long as the key is in your pocket, it doesn't have to be inserted (on the E90 - new 3 series at least). I would hope the push button start and comfort entry would have migrated to the newly designed X5 - although I haven't seen one in person yet, so....

Ahh .. I was given the 335i for a couple of days by my dealership ... and, I was kind of annoyed that I did not have to take out my keys to open door; but, had to insert it into the thing and then push start. Keyless entry is a pure luxury feature -- but, I am spoiled by it ... very handy at times. You should see Jen -- she gets annoyed that she has to take out her keys now if she drives the X5 and/or push lock/unlock button. Kind of prima donna-ish; but, I have to admit -- once you experience that feature -- very cool to have.

Well, I got my fiance the Lexus ES350 this past december as a christmas gift. That has the keyless entry -- BMW's is NOT a true keyless entry -- still need to stick that damn thing into the hole.

The Lexus has great electronics -- that NAV system kicks ass. The ML sound system is awesome. The adaptive headlights are cool -- and all of these other features like backup camera, rear seat heater/massager, etc.. are nice with the ultra-lux package. It's a great car to drive if you sit in a lot of traffic -- but, not really for me -- hence, why I decided against the LX or GX. Plus, the ES350 gets damn good gas mileage. I looked closely at the GS series; but, didn't feel it was buying me 'that' much more ... used the money I saved to buy tires and winter tires/wheels for the X5 -- you'll need it!

I would also look at the Mazda CX-7 and CX-9 if you are not a badge-conscious driver. It's a pretty impressive vehicle. Just can't tow enough for me. I personally, would never buy a first year production BMW car ...

You're right, buying a first year model is concerning. it's one of the reasons I'd need to get a really good price so I could jump out early without getting financially hurt.

By the way, BMW does offer keyless access and start (no need to remove the key from yuor pocket). It's called "Comfort Access" and it's an upgrade from standard. It's another $1200. This X5 I am looking at had that option.

If the car unlocks itself when you get near it, then you don't have to insert the key to start it. The Comfort Access is both keyless unlocking and keyless start, not one or the other.

Here's the nighmare scenario I imagine when people say they can unlock and start their car with their keys in their pocket is this: We had a customer show up with this feature on their new 335... they pulled up and left the car running... service advisor wrote up the vehicle and seeing that the porter had already moved the car further forward in the service lane (but left it running), assumed that the key was in the car. Customer signed the paperwork and left. With the key in his pocket. Another porter puts the paperwork in the car, drives it out into the lot and parks it. No key. Now the customer has to come back to give us a key. Big hassle.

Imagine this scenario outside the delaership... you go to a friends house, pull up and leave the car running, someone else gets in the car to run to the store and shuts it off when they get there.... screwed!

Not that this will be common, but it will happen again!

Thanks for all your insight. The MDX is indeed a great vehicle. I liked it very much but it actually didn't have enough tech for me. I want keyless access and start. Also, I'd like to have Adaptive Cruise. I think BMW calls it Dynamic Cruise. Neither of these things are available on the MDX (too bad because they offer it on the RL).

I looked at the GX. In fact my brother has one so I've looked at it VERY closely. That has the same problem as the MDX. No keyless start or adaptive cruise, plus it's body on frame and more then I need.

After talking with you guys and thinking it through, I think I'm just going to lay low for a while and see what happens to the X5 pricing in 08. It's in high demand right now in it's first year release and theirs really no negotiating. Also, maybe there will be some rumors by then about the MY09 MDX. 09 will be the third year of that mdx design and it might get a refresh and be released in mid 08.

Sounds like you've made your decision but can't commit due to $$$ (actually it sounds like you knew what you wanted even before you created this thread). Good luck with the X5 if you ever decide to take the plunge!

My wife and I had a 2003 MDX for 4.5 years and 40,000 miles and we recently upgraded to a 2007 X5 4.8i. 5 years ago the X5 was our second choice mainly because I could never get comfortable with the value proposition. This time we opted to get something "nicer."

The MDX was great from start to finish, including the sales, service and ownerships aspects. While the car itself was nice, it wasnt awe inspiring.

Fast forward to this winter/spring for our latest test drives. The new MDX is wonderful. Very modern cockpit, much nicer finishings than our 2003 version. The 300hp V6 is powerful and well-tuned, and the SUV is nimble when matched with the sport package.

Our top choices were again the MDX and the X5. However, my wife became increasingly disenchanted with the front end treatment, specifically the plastic grill, on the new MDX. Given that we already had an MDX and wanted to upgrade, we decided to go with the X5.

The car itself is exceptional and I can't say enough good things about the ride, power, handling, braking, technology, finishings, etc. However, every now and again the value proposition creeps into my head and I am left with doubts, especially given the service experience we have had thus far.

The sales experience (excluding pricing) was lousy at two Chicago dealers, so I had to go to a third to actually buy the car. The service experience after 5 months and 2,000 miles has been truly dreadful. Our X5 suffers from the iPod switching issue from factory option 6FL. Two Chicago dealers have failed miserably to address the issue, despite the documentation I have provided. One dealer even neglected to replace the oil fill cap during one of my four iPod service appointments, which caused a nightmare over labor day weekend for my wife (who was out with the car) and I. Long story short, BMW assist failed completely at their sole function. After waiting six hours of being repeatedly assured that a driver would be out in "20 minutes" I finally left the car and dealt with it the next day.