Great article on caranddriver.com. The automatic outperformed the manual. Audi's DSG tranny outperforms their manual as well, and it seems BMW has perfected their ZF automatic.

Btw - I have owned both manuals and autos; however, my current commute would not make sense for a manual. Glad to see the automatic perform so well. Not debating auto vs manual. There is no wrong choice for a tranny - only a personal preference.

Great article on caranddriver.com. The automatic outperformed the manual. Audi's DSG tranny outperforms their manual as well, and it seems BMW has perfected their ZF automatic.

Btw - I have owned both manuals and autos; however, my current commute would not make sense for a manual. Glad to see the automatic perform so well. Not debating auto vs manual. There is no wrong choice for a tranny - only a personal preference.

Auto is better.

Let the flames begin!!! :firedevil

Auto is better.

Let the flames begin!!! :firedevil

I like the auto...I even got it in my Carrera. I think they are faster day to day. The 0-60 times quoted in tests often have the manual transmission cars launched very aggressively. Most people don't do that. But there is definitely something about rowing through the gears when you're having fun. There is no right answer, but I think the autos have come a long way in the last few years.

currently trying to decide on what to purchase.....only test-driven the auto, but always driven/owned a manual.

currently trying to decide on what to purchase.....only test-driven the auto, but always driven/owned a manual.


I was about to ask what your commute is like. Since you live in Austin, no need. I try to avoid going through Austin anytime close to rush hour. ;)

Seeing as it is people getting lazier and lazier (can anyone say escalators in a Gym), I am not surprised auto is gaining the lead and establishing a foothold. I just hope I don't see the day when the only manual I can drive is EarlM's dump truck. ;)

I'm sure that the current auto shifts better than I do. With that said, if you love driving, you'll want a stick.

The fun factor sure makes up for the loss of 0-60 in the manual though. And anyone making the excuse of "I sit in traffic" I respond "big deal" it's the easiest manual to drive ever.

I test drove the 335i manual and hated it, but I should give it another try.

An auto is ok on a car like the 335i. I would not get an auto on a purer race/track car though. For instance, it makes no sense to get a 911 with an auto IMO. But it makes sense to get an auto in a grand tourer like the 6-series.

I test drove the 335i manual and hated it, but I should give it another try.

An auto is ok on a car like the 335i. I would not get an auto on a purer race/track car though. For instance, it makes no sense to get a 911 with an auto IMO. But it makes sense to get an auto in a grand tourer like the 6-series.


Agree completely. I plan on getting a two seat roadster 4/5 years down the road and will get a manual. The BMW 3 series is on the fence whether auto or manual is better. It is sporty but still a heavy luxury car.

The manual is just more enthusiastic, I don't know about getting a 911 in an automatic like someone above said, but it does make sense getting a 6 in an auto. Also, it depends on the person and what he or she likes. Ive had a auto, but my commute everyday is nice so I prefer the stick shift.

I prefer manual, but the 6spd in my 328i shifts very nice, it even starts off in second gear for you

I was about to ask what your commute is like. Since you live in Austin, no need. I try to avoid going through Austin anytime close to rush hour. ;)

Austin doesn't have traffic...at least not real traffic like other real cities.

Austin doesn't have traffic...at least not real traffic like other real cities.


you must be a transplant from somewhere "real" then?

Ahhh, unless a test is done with both cars tested at the same place, same time, same drivers then all the data really doesn't mean anything. I don't know why people think it's hard to launch, your Auto does it the same way. It's not AWD where you really have to beat the car to get times like in an EVO.

I like the auto...I even got it in my Carrera. I think they are faster day to day. The 0-60 times quoted in tests often have the manual transmission cars launched very aggressively. Most people don't do that. But there is definitely something about rowing through the gears when you're having fun. There is no right answer, but I think the autos have come a long way in the last few years.

You're definitely right about automatics coming a long way, for me I really really love driving my manual hard through twisty roads or even in a straight line and I've practiced launching the car close to perfectly so I am quite a bit quicker than a few E90 or E92 328i autos I've lined up against, but sometimes I drive an automatic and I enjoy being able to just sit there and not have to consciously worry about making every shift perfect and smooth which can be tricky on my E90, but I'm getting used to the CDV slowly.

Austin doesn't have traffic...at least not real traffic like other real cities.


by "real" cities do you mean the sprawltastic cities like LA and houston?

I've always driven standards and grew up just accepting that that is what real sports cars have.

That said, modern "semi-autos" with paddle shifters and rev matching are far removed from the slushboxes of old. They even use semi-autos in Formula 1 now, so I guess my preconceived notion is pretty much obsolete.

That said, I still find manuals more fun to drive, though I did test drive various autos and left with a favorable impression. I was surprised, however, when I was at the BMW dealer negotiating a lease for my 328. As soon as I said I wanted the manual tranny, the number of choices on the lot plummeted. Seems most people, even BMW buyers, prefer autos.

i went with the auto.....third auto I've ever owned....I'm liking it.

I've always driven standards and grew up just accepting that that is what real sports cars have.

That said, modern "semi-autos" with paddle shifters and rev matching are far removed from the slushboxes of old. They even use semi-autos in Formula 1 now, so I guess my preconceived notion is pretty much obsolete.

That said, I still find manuals more fun to drive, though I did test drive various autos and left with a favorable impression. I was surprised, however, when I was at the BMW dealer negotiating a lease for my 328. As soon as I said I wanted the manual tranny, the number of choices on the lot plummeted. Seems most people, even BMW buyers, prefer autos.

Again people are confusing route technology. The F1 tranny are computer controlled manual...they have clutches. Autos have a torque converter. BIG difference in performance.

Again people are confusing route technology. The F1 tranny are computer controlled manual...they have clutches. Autos have a torque converter. BIG difference in performance.

But the 335 AT Torque Converter is locked most of the time. That's what causes it to have performance figures very much the same as the MT.

But the 335 AT Torque Converter is locked most of the time. That's what causes it to have performance figures very much the same as the MT.

Yep, auto is better.

Again people are confusing route technology. The F1 tranny are computer controlled manual...they have clutches. Autos have a torque converter. BIG difference in performance.

The twin-clutch automatics now available from VW-Audi and Mitsubishi are basically F1 trannies for the street. They have no torque converters.

http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyouneedtoknow/a/ag_howDSGworks.htm

Interesting read about the DSG ... I didn't realize it had no torque converter!

I keep seeing people say the automatic is better than the manual. First, it's a personal preference. Second, the automatics come with 3.46 gears in the rear end while the manuals come with 3.08's. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the 3.46's will out accelerate the 3.08's, since the actual transmission gearing is VERY SIMILAR in the two transmissions.

Manual transmission gears: 4.06, 2.40, 1.58, 1.19, 1.00, .87
Auto transmssion gears: 4.17, 2.34, 1.52, 1.14, .87, .67

Manual car rear end size: 3.08
Auto car rear end size: 3.46

Effective gearing manual (multiply tranny gear by rear end gear): 12.50, 7.39, 4.87, 3.67, 3.08, 2.68

Effective gearing auto (multiply tranny gear by rear end gear): 14.43, 8.10, 5.26, 3.94, 3.01, 2.32


The automatic has steeper gearing making it quicker as long as the torque converter is locked up at higher rpms. I believe the manual transmission is more efficient and transfers more engine power to the actual wheels than the automatic. Not by much though. If you are stoplight racing or doing the 1/4 mile, the automatic should be awesome. If you want complete control of your car and want to feel like one with the machine, there's no beating the manual transmission. Regardless, BMW gave us a great automatic as well as a great manual transmission. It's up to personal preference really.

I keep seeing people say the automatic is better than the manual. First, it's a personal preference. Second, the automatics come with 3.46 gears in the rear end while the manuals come with 3.08's. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the 3.46's will out accelerate the 3.08's, since the actual transmission gearing is VERY SIMILAR in the two transmissions.

Manual transmission gears: 4.06, 2.40, 1.58, 1.19, 1.00, .87
Auto transmssion gears: 4.17, 2.34, 1.52, 1.14, .87, .67

Manual car rear end size: 3.08
Auto car rear end size: 3.46

Effective gearing manual (multiply tranny gear by rear end gear): 12.50, 7.39, 4.87, 3.67, 3.08, 2.68

Effective gearing auto (multiply tranny gear by rear end gear): 14.43, 8.10, 5.26, 3.94, 3.01, 2.32


The automatic has steeper gearing making it quicker as long as the torque converter is locked up at higher rpms. I believe the manual transmission is more efficient and transfers more engine power to the actual wheels than the automatic. Not by much though. If you are stoplight racing or doing the 1/4 mile, the automatic should be awesome. If you want complete control of your car and want to feel like one with the machine, there's no beating the manual transmission. Regardless, BMW gave us a great automatic as well as a great manual transmission. It's up to personal preference really.

Nope, auto is better.

Having owned Carreras, an S2000 and the NSX, all manual transmissions, there's no way the step tranny can satisfy the need to row the gears. It's an addiction that, understandably, some just don't understand.

It's all personal perferences in how you want to drive the car. Most important of all, it depends on if you know how to harness the car's true power.

Auto's are for girls that do not know how to drive or shift MT's. BMW should also remove the RPM gauge from automatics because there is no need for it.

I prefer manuals for the driver involvement aspect, autos put me in a detached/comatose state :D

.....and I live in Atlanta, #2 behind LA for worst traffic.....

Auto's are for girls that do not know how to drive or shift MT's. BMW should also remove the RPM gauge from automatics because there is no need for it.

Ya those F1 girls should park it and go drive some real cars like what Nascar has.

The autos are for sissies BS was put to bed long ago in the race world, the street cars are making the change now, learn to deal with cars that have autos beating you if you choose to stick to a manual.

F1 cars have clutches. Your argument holds no water

F1 cars have clutches. Your argument holds no water


So do automatics. Whats your point?

So do automatics. Whats your point?
I think he is saying F1 doesn't use auto slush boxes, i.e. no torque converter. e.g. , SMG != auto.

Not another auto vs. manual post. Noooooooooooooo...

I think he is saying F1 doesn't use auto slush boxes, i.e. no torque converter. e.g. , SMG != auto.

Point taken, maybe it's better expressed by a transmission that does not need a 3rd pedal.

Ya those F1 girls should park it and go drive some real cars like what Nascar has.

The autos are for sissies BS was put to bed long ago in the race world, the street cars are making the change now, learn to deal with cars that have autos beating you if you choose to stick to a manual.

I think you have a misconception that the 335 is a F1 and treat it as such. It not a M either, it is a well engineered fast luxury cruser that can hold its own. May be daddy should have bought you a Evo with paddle shifters or something along that line for you to abuse.

Where did you see I mentioned a 335? I didn’t, Expect more of the same as autos get even better, manual cars are fun to drive but the automatic transmissions are much better today than they were as few as 5 years ago. I have not owned a automatic car since 87 and probably will continue with manual cars, I am not so blind as to discount the advancements autos have made, be it electronically shifted traditional manual or a torque converter traditional auto, they are getting very good. The need for a third pedal is going away like it or not.

I love when my BMW tells me to paddle her.

Where did you see I mentioned a 335? I didn’t, Expect more of the same as autos get even better, manual cars are fun to drive but the automatic transmissions are much better today than they were as few as 5 years ago. I have not owned a automatic car since 87 and probably will continue with manual cars, I am not so blind as to discount the advancements autos have made, be it electronically shifted traditional manual or a torque converter traditional auto, they are getting very good. The need for a third pedal is going away like it or not.

I saw that you list a 335i as one of your cars and this thread is about " 335 auto outguns the manual". And by the way was 1987 the year you got your drivers licence or the year you were born. Say HI to your daddy for me, he must be a great man. I had to buy my own BMW, OK my wife works too.

I love when my BMW tells me to paddle her.
Ummm I know, sure makes her go faster. :)

I drive these cars every single day. There's ZERO question in my mind that the 6MT is a MUCH more rewarding experience behind the wheel.

However to throw something else into the mix: I'd take an Auto with the sport package over a stick shift non sport any day.

I drive these cars every single day. There's ZERO question in my mind that the 6MT is a MUCH more rewarding experience behind the wheel.

However to throw something else into the mix: I'd take an Auto with the sport package over a stick shift non sport any day.

I agree 100%. My 335i Coupe MT has the sport package. It was a tough choice to decide between the MT and Auto, but the MT won out. The Auto has a lot more moving parts than the MT and other then the MT experience I figured there are enough complicated systems in it to go wrong. My wife helped me out, .. she drove both and said she liked the 6 MT better. The boss had spoken and so it would be done. HA HA.:)

I saw that you list a 335i as one of your cars and this thread is about " 335 auto outguns the manual". And by the way was 1987 the year you got your drivers licence or the year you were born. Say HI to your daddy for me, he must be a great man. I had to buy my own BMW, OK my wife works too.

Lighten up there Mr. adult married guy, no need to get so uptight. Hit that spell checker on the next post.... licence is spelled "license".

Auto's are for girls that do not know how to drive or shift MT's. BMW should also remove the RPM gauge from automatics because there is no need for it.

I enjoy both tranny's and have owned 9 cars in 23 years (5 autos and 4 manuals). Of the non-SUVs, 4 of 6 were manuals.

Question: What does that make me? A bi-transmissual?

I enjoy both tranny's and have owned 9 cars in 23 years (5 autos and 4 manuals). Of the non-SUVs, 4 of 6 were manuals.

Question: What does that make me? A bi-transmissual?

Absolutely, I had a 1970 302 Boss Mustang AT so that must make me one too.

Lighten up there Mr. adult married guy, no need to get so uptight. Hit that spell checker on the next post.... license is spelled "license".

Dang it, mees ist jusd messing wit use. Mees triesd not to using spellin checks so mees making error somtimess. But why do you always avoid answering questions kid????? This is nothing personal just having a little fun.:D

I drive these cars every single day. There's ZERO question in my mind that the 6MT is a MUCH more rewarding experience behind the wheel...

Right on! Can there be any more rewarding feeling than a perfect heal and toe downshift into a tight corner, followed by a brisk exit?

Auto's are for girls that do not know how to drive or shift MT's. BMW should also remove the RPM gauge from automatics because there is no need for it.

On average more female buy and drive manuals than male. Go figure. Out of my circle of friends and family, a higher percentage of girl drive manuals than guys. Go figure.

On average more female buy and drive manuals than male. Go figure. Out of my circle of friends and family, a higher percentage of girl drive manuals than guys. Go figure.

You know most woman.... control freaks. :)

Truth. I learned how to drive stick in my then girlfriend now wives 2001 325Ci Cabrio.

Most 6MT BMW owners are male. But that's not really relevant.

You know most woman.... control freaks. :)

Truth. I learned how to drive stick in my then girlfriend now wives 2001 325Ci Cabrio.

:eek:

Well, in my experience women tend to either HATE driving stick with a passion or they don't really care, and will learn how to drive a stick much quicker than guys. Guys on the other hand will refuse to admit that they don't know how to move 2 feet at the same time while finding 3rd gear without looking, but will INSIST that they know "how" to drive a stick, but never buy one. But they'll come up with the most creative excuses for why they don't actually own or drive a stick.

Typical conversation with my "none" manual driving guy friend(s):

Me: "So, looking for a new car?"

Friend: "Yeah, I just picked up a [insert brand] [insert model]."

Me: "Yeah? did you get a stick like you said you've always wanted?"

Friend: "Nah, I got an auto this time because [insert one or more of the following excuse]"

1: Car only comes in automatic (see most of Mercedes' line-up).

2: Girlfriend of 2 weeks can't drive a stick (nevermind that this is your 3rd girlfriend in the last 6 month, and your last 3 girlfriends all drive stickshifts).

3: Traffic is a killer on my commute (again, nevermind that this is going to be a weekend only car, or your commute consists of driving from the boonies to butt-f**kin'-Egypt at 10:30am in the morning, and leaving at 2:00pm in the afternoon).

4: The auto is just as good as a manual anyway (okay, why don't you just come out and admit it. You don't know how to drive a stick shift).

It's never the truth, which is "I don't know how to drive a stick." Never. Not with a guy. You can never get a guy to admit he doesn't know how to drive a stick-shift.

There is no longer any practical reason to get a manual. It is more involving to drive. I have no problem driving my manual in hour long stretches of rush hour traffic---but I don't do it very often. If I had to, automatic all the way.

But we don't always have to be practical, right?

I read that article on C&D. You can't conclude it is faster, only that AT is as fast as MT. The reason being the test results were from different days, and the the MT was tested about 1 yr ago. To make a accurate comparison, both cars should be side by side, with similar options except the transmission. Besides, late model 07 may be slightly quicker, who knows what BMW did, they don't have to disclose any changes. When you are comparing 0.1 sec diffs, it does matter that the comparison is well controlled. Otherwise it is not a valid conclusion that AT is faster. We can only say that the performance gap is not as big as the older ATs did. BTW, BMW did their own tests for those brochures, and MT is quicker by 0.2 secs. I tend to believe their results for this sort of comparisons even if their numbers are more conservative. The average joe is likely to go quicker on AT since it is more fool proof.

There is no longer any practical reason to get a manual. It is more involving to drive. I have no problem driving my manual in hour long stretches of rush hour traffic---but I don't do it very often. If I had to, automatic all the way.

But we don't always have to be practical, right?

Practical reasons:

1. Better control in slippery conditions. Actually better control all the time, but this is when it is apparent to those of us not in the top 1% of drivers. A torque converter is not your friend on ice.

2. Cost. And I don’t mean that I can not afford an automatic, I mean that I hate paying for major transmission work at 75k miles. Been there, done that. There is a reason for all those AAMCO locations.

3. I like to drive.

To each their own, but my wife and I are not irrational for having no automatics in the household.

The fun factor sure makes up for the loss of 0-60 in the manual though. And anyone making the excuse of "I sit in traffic" I respond "big deal" it's the easiest manual to drive ever.

thank you!!!! well said !!!

I read that article on C&D. You can't conclude it is faster, only that AT is as fast as MT. The reason being the test results were from different days, and the the MT was tested about 1 yr ago. To make a accurate comparison, both cars should be side by side, with similar options except the transmission. Besides, late model 07 may be slightly quicker, who knows what BMW did, they don't have to disclose any changes. When you are comparing 0.1 sec diffs, it does matter that the comparison is well controlled. Otherwise it is not a valid conclusion that AT is faster. We can only say that the performance gap is not as big as the older ATs did. BTW, BMW did their own tests for those brochures, and MT is quicker by 0.2 secs. I tend to believe their results for this sort of comparisons even if their numbers are more conservative. The average joe is likely to go quicker on AT since it is more fool proof.

The manual can only keep up with the auto if the driver shifts perfectly. Unless you are a profesional driver, you will not be able to match the auto. Sorry to bust the big egos on the forum but there is a reason you drive in traffic and the pros drive on the track.

ATs can only get faster from here, but I will continue to row my boat in LA traffic as long as I can. :)

I was at the dealer today for my tire replacement and got a chance to test drive the 535iA sport. Now granted the test drive course was lousy (he barely let me get to 100kph warning me of cops all along the way and asking me to slow down), I was able to get some feel for the automatic on that car. It does seem different from the one on the 335 and I asked but didn't get a convincing answer. In short here are a few observations:
- funky looking AT lever with 2 buttons. 1 button on top to put it in Park and one on the left side to be able to shift it into Reverse. Plus of course you can put it in DS mode by moving to the left.
- I didn't try manual mode but I tried DS and regular modes. In DS mode the car would hold gear even at higher RPMs (didn't get too high, around 4500 or so) and doesn't upshift.
- In normal mode, it shifts very early except when I punched it.
- response for gear changes was surprisingly crisp, no hesitation at all and much faster than the AT I tested on the 323 (not sure if it is the same on the 335, but my guess is yes).
- on the 5 series, the AT is a no cost option, so whether you get MT or AT, it won't change the $$.

So if I were to get a 535 would I get the AT or MT. To be honest, for a bigger car like that, it is a tossup. I am a big MT fan, but the AT on the 535 is extremely nice. Only thing I would nitpick on is if you like DS and want to get better gas economy, you'd have to switch back and forth to normal mode, but then you are either driving spirited or highway cruising in which case I'd assume you don't really need to flipflop a lot.

In conclusion, not sure if the 335 AT is the same as the 535, but with the 535, I have to say the AT is no slouch and I would pick it any day. It would just depend if I would miss changing gears a lot or not. MT is still a lot more involving in your drive, but performance wise, I doubt I would have noticed on that car. Maybe I should drive the MT version next time and see.

The manual can only keep up with the auto if the driver shifts perfectly. Unless you are a profesional driver, you will not be able to match the auto. Sorry to bust the big egos on the forum but there is a reason you drive in traffic and the pros drive on the track.

Spoken like a real "I don't know how to drive a stick" guy.

It is not that hard to execute a perfect shift. All the time. I'm not a professional driver. I've only been driving sticks for about 10 years. I can shift just as fast, if not faster, than an automatic. All the time. It just becomes second nature and something ingrained into your muscle memory like how to walk and chew gum at the same time.

And you bring up traffic. It is actually easier to drive a stick in traffic if you learn how to. Simply put, you have way more control over the gears in traffic with a manual than you will with an auto. 2nd gear in most BMWs will get you from barely crawling to 60 mph. When I'm stuck in traffic (which is EVERYDAY), I just leave the car in 2nd, leave about 1.5-2 car length between me and the car in front of me, and I never have to take it out of 2nd until traffic clears, and I never have to hit the brake, and I rarely have to put the car in neutral or hit the clutch. You just use the throttle and car's natural "engine brake" to slow the car down. Even at 35-40 mph (which is moving fast for L.A. traffic) it's only about 4,000 RPM in my car in 2nd. If I see traffic clearing up in front, I'll upshift at that point. If I see traffic slowing down way ahead, I'll ease off of the throttle and car will slow down as if I'm lightly braking.

Spoken like a real "I don't know how to drive a stick" guy.

It is not that hard to execute a perfect shift. All the time. I'm not a professional driver. I've only been driving sticks for about 10 years. I can shift just as fast, if not faster, than an automatic. All the time. It just becomes second nature and something ingrained into your muscle memory like how to walk and chew gum at the same time.

And you bring up traffic. It is actually easier to drive a stick in traffic if you learn how to. Simply put, you have way more control over the gears in traffic with a manual than you will with an auto. 2nd gear in most BMWs will get you from barely crawling to 60 mph. When I'm stuck in traffic (which is EVERYDAY), I just leave the car in 2nd, leave about 1.5-2 car length between me and the car in front of me, and I never have to take it out of 2nd until traffic clears, and I never have to hit the brake, and I rarely have to put the car in neutral or hit the clutch. You just use the throttle and car's natural "engine brake" to slow the car down. Even at 35-40 mph (which is moving fast for L.A. traffic) it's only about 4,000 RPM in my car in 2nd. If I see traffic clearing up in front, I'll upshift at that point. If I see traffic slowing down way ahead, I'll ease off of the throttle and car will slow down as if I'm lightly braking.
+1, that is my experience with manual and traffic (haven't owned an auto in the last 13 years or more). Unfortunately, this is like trying to get a vegan to eat Steak, let them have their Tofu. :rolleyes

And you bring up traffic. It is actually easier to drive a stick in traffic if you learn how to. Simply put, you have way more control over the gears in traffic with a manual than you will with an auto. 2nd gear in most BMWs will get you from barely crawling to 60 mph. When I'm stuck in traffic (which is EVERYDAY), I just leave the car in 2nd, leave about 1.5-2 car length between me and the car in front of me, and I never have to take it out of 2nd until traffic clears, and I never have to hit the brake, and I rarely have to put the car in neutral or hit the clutch. You just use the throttle and car's natural "engine brake" to slow the car down. Even at 35-40 mph (which is moving fast for L.A. traffic) it's only about 4,000 RPM in my car in 2nd. If I see traffic clearing up in front, I'll upshift at that point. If I see traffic slowing down way ahead, I'll ease off of the throttle and car will slow down as if I'm lightly braking.


I concur! I’ve been driving a stick for 28 years and I agree. I lot of people shy away from sticks when they think they’ll be facing traffic. The stick is your friend in traffic and saves your brakes! This is the smoothest clutch and transmission I’ve ever driven. I’ve had Toyota’s and Acura’s and they felt somewhat botchy (bucked) in traffic.

Must be that awesome BMW torque coming through!

741--I agree with all your points

autos are great, and they are even becoming polular in Europe now! :eek: I guess I have always been a fan of stick and always will be. I drive all the time for my work, sit in tons of traffic every day, park, hills, phone calls, eating while driving, you name it. I just don't really like automatics...I feel like it takes all the fun out of the car...okay, let me floor it...wow!!!! Man I'm a good driver!!!

Trying to learn all the tricks associated with a stick is so much more fun!!! Heel n' Toe, rev match down shifts, power shifting, holding the gears on turns or as you are on the track, playing back and forth on a light, and my favorite, asking girls to shift your stick! LOL

Sorry, as much and I think autos are great, I rather take the stairs vs the elevator.

Spoken like a real "I don't know how to drive a stick" guy.

It is not that hard to execute a perfect shift. All the time. I'm not a professional driver. I've only been driving sticks for about 10 years. I can shift just as fast, if not faster, than an automatic. All the time. It just becomes second nature and something ingrained into your muscle memory like how to walk and chew gum at the same time.

And you bring up traffic. It is actually easier to drive a stick in traffic if you learn how to. Simply put, you have way more control over the gears in traffic with a manual than you will with an auto. 2nd gear in most BMWs will get you from barely crawling to 60 mph. When I'm stuck in traffic (which is EVERYDAY), I just leave the car in 2nd, leave about 1.5-2 car length between me and the car in front of me, and I never have to take it out of 2nd until traffic clears, and I never have to hit the brake, and I rarely have to put the car in neutral or hit the clutch. You just use the throttle and car's natural "engine brake" to slow the car down. Even at 35-40 mph (which is moving fast for L.A. traffic) it's only about 4,000 RPM in my car in 2nd. If I see traffic clearing up in front, I'll upshift at that point. If I see traffic slowing down way ahead, I'll ease off of the throttle and car will slow down as if I'm lightly braking.


blah blah blah... spoken like a true egomaniac. If you could really drive, you would be a pro. I have probably driven more manuals than you ever have but don't delude myself into thinking I am a pro.

btw - who can't drive a manual in traffic? I could teach my dog to. On a race track executing perfect shift while cornering hard is much different. Leave the perfect shift comments for people who do it for a living not arm chair shifting. (I will stand corrected and eat my words if you are a professional driver but don't suspect they would be on such a forum)

blah blah blah... spoken like a true egomaniac. If you could really drive, you would be a pro. I have probably driven more manuals than you ever have but don't delude myself into thinking I am a pro.

btw - who can't drive a manual in traffic? I could teach my dog to. On a race track executing perfect shift while cornering hard is much different. Leave the perfect shift comments for people who do it for a living not arm chair shifting. (I will stand corrected and eat my words if you are a professional driver but don't suspect they would be on such a forum)
I can shift faster than you can blink and I am not even up to the amateur level. I'm not saying it to brag, point is shifting properly can be learned with practice. But in any case, most of the time you rarely need to shift perfectly that is if you need to shift at all. In fact I shift lazily most of the time (slow shifts, shift into neutral, 3rd or 4th to 6th), but when I am in the mood to take the back roads and have some fun, I remind myself with a big smile why I stuck with the MT. That is probably what I would miss if I were to choose an AT, but some people either don't care or pretend not to!

I keep seeing people say the automatic is better than the manual. First, it's a personal preference. Second, the automatics come with 3.46 gears in the rear end while the manuals come with 3.08's. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the 3.46's will out accelerate the 3.08's, since the actual transmission gearing is VERY SIMILAR in the two transmissions.

Manual transmission gears: 4.06, 2.40, 1.58, 1.19, 1.00, .87
Auto transmssion gears: 4.17, 2.34, 1.52, 1.14, .87, .67

Manual car rear end size: 3.08
Auto car rear end size: 3.46

Effective gearing manual (multiply tranny gear by rear end gear): 12.50, 7.39, 4.87, 3.67, 3.08, 2.68

Effective gearing auto (multiply tranny gear by rear end gear): 14.43, 8.10, 5.26, 3.94, 3.01, 2.32


The automatic has steeper gearing making it quicker as long as the torque converter is locked up at higher rpms. I believe the manual transmission is more efficient and transfers more engine power to the actual wheels than the automatic. Not by much though. If you are stoplight racing or doing the 1/4 mile, the automatic should be awesome. If you want complete control of your car and want to feel like one with the machine, there's no beating the manual transmission. Regardless, BMW gave us a great automatic as well as a great manual transmission. It's up to personal preference really.

well stated. The new ZF tranny is impressive. :thumbup:

I can shift faster than you can blink and I am not even up to the amateur level. I'm not saying it to brag, point is shifting properly can be learned with practice. But in any case, most of the time you rarely need to shift perfectly that is if you need to shift at all. In fact I shift lazily most of the time (slow shifts, shift into neutral, 3rd or 4th to 6th), but when I am in the mood to take the back roads and have some fun, I remind myself with a big smile why I stuck with the MT. That is probably what I would miss if I were to choose an AT, but some people either don't care or pretend not to!


You missed the whole point. That being the only way the manual can keep up with the ZF is with perfect shifts. In traffic it doesn't matter if you are perfect or not. If you are on a track, the auto will beat the manual since only pros can shift perfectly under the stressed driving conditions of the track.

I enjoy shifting and like both AT and MT. Shifting is fun but provides the illusion of more control.

You missed the whole point. That being the only way the manual can keep up with the ZF is with perfect shifts. In traffic it doesn't matter if you are perfect or not. If you are on a track, the auto will beat the manual since only pros can shift perfectly under the stressed driving conditions of the track.

I enjoy shifting and like both AT and MT. Shifting is fun but provides the illusion of more control.
And you missed the point that I (and many like me) don't care which is faster (which is usually only a fraction of a second anyway which is irrelevant on a day to day basis), but we care which is more satisfying. Illusion or not, it is what makes you happy, and if it is AT for you, then so be it, we are not in an MT dictatorship, nor is this an AT propaganda campaign. Let's leave it at that.

Cheers

Hey, I have AT because it was the only thing available for me on the lot. I wanted my car, it had AT. I thought the paddles were a cool accessory anyway. I've had two VWs and have a Toyota Tercel (Commuter Car) all MT. If I ordered my 335i like many of you did, I would have gone with MT because its less expensive and I'm accustomed to driving MT. But on an impulse buy (I did the research on the 335i but could have walked away) that was the car I wanted and it happened to be AT. Oh well, I like DS mode anyway for my spirited take-offs. My next BMW, MT all the way!

And you missed the point that I (and many like me) don't care which is faster (which is usually only a fraction of a second anyway which is irrelevant on a day to day basis), but we care which is more satisfying. Illusion or not, it is what makes you happy, and if it is AT for you, then so be it, we are not in an MT dictatorship, nor is this an AT propaganda campaign. Let's leave it at that.

Cheers

agree with your opinion above; however, the thread / article is on speed of AT vs MT. If you did not care which is faster, you could ignore the thread.

blah blah blah... spoken like a true egomaniac. If you could really drive, you would be a pro. I have probably driven more manuals than you ever have but don't delude myself into thinking I am a pro.

Do you have ANY idea how much it cost to be a "pro?"

Clue-bie. There's a saying in the industry. The only way to make a small fortune in racing, is start out with a big one. It's not a poor man's game. :rolleyes

I'll believe you actually know how to drive a stick when I see it, Mr. Internet Lier.

You missed the whole point. That being the only way the manual can keep up with the ZF is with perfect shifts. In traffic it doesn't matter if you are perfect or not. If you are on a track, the auto will beat the manual since only pros can shift perfectly under the stressed driving conditions of the track.

I enjoy shifting and like both AT and MT. Shifting is fun but provides the illusion of more control.

Again, spoken like a true pretender. If you are on a track, no BMW auto is going to beat its manual counterpart.

I am now 100% convinced that you haven't come close enough to smell a manual your entire life. Stop pretending.

agree with your opinion above; however, the thread / article is on speed of AT vs MT. If you did not care which is faster, you could ignore the thread.

Jeez...If I'm not discussing which is faster I can't participate in a discussion that branched out? I don't own an E9X yet, does that mean I can't post in this forum either?

I mean, you've never driven a stick, yet you're still participating in this thread? :rolleyes :lol

Jeez...If I'm not discussing which is faster I can't participate in a discussion that branched out? I don't own an E9X yet, does that mean I can't post in this forum either?

I mean, you've never driven a stick, yet you're still participating in this thread? :rolleyes :lol
doesn't have a BMW yet either, but I ain't complaining. I believe most people are smart enough to make judgments for themselves who knows what they are talking about and who don't, so with that, I'll finish my contribution go play some more HL2.

auto is better.

I mean, you've never driven a stick, yet you're still participating in this thread? :rolleyes :lol


Never driven a stick? What led you to believe that. I am at least as good with a stick as the drivers on this forum. I just appreciate both AT &
MT tranny's. Especially the BMW ZF and Audi's DSG Auto.

someone explain to me how the BMW paddle shifters work....to me it looks like you push forward with your thumb on the paddle to upshift on the right/downshift on the left...seems rather stupid/uncomfortable when considering pulling the paddles towards you is how all other cars shift.