I was just reading some news on Ohlins.com and noticed this little blurb:

"BMW is announcing that all official BMW teams in the World Touring Championship Car, WTCC series, are equipped with Öhlins dampers. It’s the well proven TTX concept that is used. Front, it’s the new TTX46 McPherson and rear, the well proven TTX40. "

http://ohlins.com/Portals/0/ttx46mt_02.jpg

Hopefully I'll have some pics of my E46 Ohlins on jaffster.com soon :D

Looks very nice, maybe no one will notice them on my car in JP :shifty

You can get Single adjustable Ohlins for Prepared. Sedacca's use them in their mod cars, very nice, affordable, and great results.

Plus the TTX setup is about $12k-15K :)

But what fun is following the "rule" book? HAHA. Suspension is the least of my worries right now.

:woowoo:

Or you can get DA JRZs like the rest of the fast guys in Prepared!

WTCC - not really sure that was all the teams getting together for dinner and deciding what damper to use. AP's team won it on Motons last year. Maybe Steve's extensive inside resources have different info?

Maybe Steve's extensive inside resources have different info?


Snork....

:lol:lol:lol

WTCC - not really sure that was all the teams getting together for dinner and deciding what damper to use. AP's team won it on Motons last year. Maybe Steve's extensive inside resources have different info?

Extensive inside resources = Ohlins Website :) jackass lol

(Hope the shoulder is ok James)

Extensive inside resources = Ohlins Website :)

(Hope the shoulder is ok James)

Thanks - shoulder(s) are getting there. 5 more weeks until I need them again.

Toyos aren't necessarily the only or best tire to race on, but it is the spec that we are told to use...

Thanks - shoulder(s) are getting there. 5 more weeks until I need them again.

Toyos aren't necessarily the only or best tire to race on, but it is the spec that we are told to use...

If you need any shoulder physician consulting, give me holla.

BMW's in WTCC are not all "official teams," technically only three teams are. Right now there seems to be other faster cars in WTCC though. Such a close series, I love it.

I can guarantee you that through some mysterious efforts and decisions, one team decided on the damper and the others were forced to adopt.

LOL this sounds like some teams who have tried to stick a Moton in Koni body for another spec shock out there. LOL!

LOL this sounds like some teams who have tried to stick a Moton in Koni body for another spec shock out there. LOL!

Nice! :lol

Thanks - shoulder(s) are getting there. 5 more weeks until I need them again.

Still coming down to Texas? Gotta hit up a Mexican joint down there.

Still coming down to Texas? Gotta hit up a Mexican joint down there.

Is it as good as the one we went to at Road Atl?...where we were the last ones in the restaurant, with several plastered individuals lol

Good for BimmerWorld not to get caught in this trap, having to run a set-up that is supplied by a competitor. The JRZ is well proven.

James Posig
JMT TrackCars
#231 GTS 2

LOL this sounds like some teams who have tried to stick a Moton in Koni body for another spec shock out there. LOL!

UNPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes

Good for BimmerWorld not to get caught in this trap, having to run a set-up that is supplied by a competitor. The JRZ is well proven.

Do what huh? Bimmerworld doesn't run in WTCC.

My bad Brian, I thought the discussion was on the series BW is in. Too much time in the shop and not at the track :)

James Posig
JMT TrackCars
#231 GTS 2

My bad Brian, I thought the discussion was on the series BW is in. Too much time in the shop and not at the track :)

I hear that. Track time has been sparse this year for me too.

Thats funny BMW is pushing the Ohlins with their "official" teams, Andy Prilaux won the WTCC last year on Motons and last time I checked this year he was still running on them.

LOL this sounds like some teams who have tried to stick a Moton in Koni body for another spec shock out there. LOL!
on a much lower scale, reminds me a guy who was banned from my old SCCA region because he was caught cheating in Stock class with aftermarket springs painted black to look OEM. :rofl
Thats funny BMW is pushing the Ohlins with their "official" teams, Andy Prilaux won the WTCC last year on Motons and last time I checked this year he was still running on them.
correcto.

http://www.motonsuspension.com/?item=news&id=85


EDIT: but what Steve J. posted is correct. posted on ohlins' site as of 9-3-07: http://ohlins.com/

Why would I make up something so irrelevant? :) Of course its correct!

As far as the info on FIA WTCC and BMW-motorsport, BMW Germany is one of the teams using Ohlins. Farfus is in first place, and he is for Team Germany. Andy's car says BMW Team UK, and the toher BMW Team cars don't have the Moton sticker, as he is the only Team UK driver. Maybe its a UK thing lol

I'm pretty sure all of them were on Moton 4-ways (the WTCC units) in 2006, but I'm trying to find out how many (if not all) are on Ohlins this season. It seems Sachs were spec'd though, so it's odd that only a couple cars ran them...maybe they left it upto the drivers?

Farfus is ahead in points as of right now.

Looking at pictures of the cars, none of them have the Moton sticker anymore (compared to 06) except for Andy, so it seems with the E90's they moved to Ohlins but he stayed with Motons?

Also, I checked my E90 WTCC Catalog, and it looks like a Sachs damper is pictured, for which I know there is a specific wtcc front sachs unit, and sachs parts are also spec'd in the price list, however I have only seen a couple pictures of the sachs units on the cars, and it was from late 06, early 07...maybe they changed to Ohlins early in the season to test and then carried it onto the others?

Eitherway, its one badass series!

Dampers are like Pampers, when they get wet, they need to be changed.

Dampers are like Pampers, when they get wet, they need to be changed.

hahaha... that was pretty good. :D

That $10-12K damper change can get expensive though. What is special about these Ohlins used on the BMW "team" cars? Number of adjustments? Bodies made of Unobtanium? Just trying to figure out where the costs are. :)

That $10-12K damper change can get expensive though. What is special about these Ohlins used on the BMW "team" cars? Number of adjustments? Bodies made of Unobtanium? Just trying to figure out where the costs are. :)

www.ohlins.com read about the TTX46/TTX series. It won an award last year at a big show in europe for best product of the year (I think thats what they called it). Its a pretty sweet unit. Nothing is out of the norm, its a standard unit spec'd for BMW application (size, rates, etc).

The TTX line is amazing, but I am with James on this one. I am sure some teams were forced to make this decision. I highly doubt they all went testing and the said result was a switch to the Ohlins. Whats your take Jaffster?

Dale

The TTX line is amazing, but I am with James on this one. I am sure some teams were forced to make this decision. I highly doubt they all went testing and the said result was a switch to the Ohlins. Whats your take Jaffster?

Dale

Idk what the politics were, and I can't say confidently that anyone was not forced to run them...I doubt they were though, especially since Andy is still running Motons.

The TTX line is superior than Moton 4way, I don't think anyone is questioning that.

Maybe they had enough development into the 4way moton setup that made them stick with them for Andy since he was obviously faster previously? Thats my best guess.

The TTX offers more valving options and design parameters, as well as a much more efficient design for quick and precise revalves. Plus the design alone is superior than motons...and that software is pretty trick.

The damper is in a different league, but it does take more work to get them working right for all tracks/conditions...but thats what the engineers are for :)

In the end it comes down to the driver/engineer interaction and how quick they can get to a setup that works. Only when it gets to the point of actual design limitations does the damper come into play, and personally I think with the level of engineering and support WTCC has, I bet they are pretty close to the limit of the Moton 4way's abilities.

As great as ohlins are, Id love to be able to actually get an e36 street/track set, but that would require the vendors that sell them to actually return my phone calls and/or emails :( I gave up after 5 weeks of trying

As of now, I believe E36/E46 "kits" are only on a custom order basis. I am having to have a set made by Ohlins USA from parts.

TYE: Call Active or VAC and get the K/W (Eibach) set-up and be done with it.
The results we have seen is awesome. Both full race and street/track. Extremely cost effective as well. Hey, if the vendors don't want to sell a product, what do you think is going to happen if you have a problem??

James Posig
JMT TrackCars
#231 GTS 2

TYE Give Evosport a call, see if they have any new Suspension setups they can put together for you.

I think one of the reasons that Andy P is still on Motons is that the RBM team is based in Holland along with Moton and they have had a very close relationship for a number of years (Andy was the first one to ever get a set of 4-way Motons).

As regards to the high cost of the Ohlins, the biggest factor is the current exchange rate, if the dollar wasnt getting creamed, everything from Europe would be at least 30% cheaper.

I have raced for 2 years on Motons, and we recently switched to the ohlins... The feeling and handling is superior in my opinion... but fragile...

I have raced for 2 years on Motons, and we recently switched to the ohlins... The feeling and handling is superior in my opinion... but fragile...


Interesting. Was that the 4-ways you raced on for 2 years?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "fragile?"

TYE: Call Active or VAC and get the K/W (Eibach) set-up and be done with it.
The results we have seen is awesome. Both full race and street/track. Extremely cost effective as well. Hey, if the vendors don't want to sell a product, what do you think is going to happen if you have a problem??

James Posig
JMT TrackCars
#231 GTS 2


That probably wouldnt be better then what I currently have on the car. Evosport set me up with something originally.

That probably wouldnt be better then what I currently have on the car. Evosport set me up with something originally.

Have you tried calling RRT? When I dealt with them, they always returned my phone calls and worked with me on everything. I know that the SA Ohlins were not available when I had them set me something up, but you can always have them set you up with the DAs.:)

I think one of the reasons that Andy P is still on Motons is that the RBM team is based in Holland along with Moton and they have had a very close relationship for a number of years (Andy was the first one to ever get a set of 4-way Motons).

But they are now forced off of the Motons, after winning 4 championships on them they are not super happy.

So have we confirmed Andy is switching to Ohlins? I was under the assumption he was staying with moton since he is the only car with the decal left.

James have you spoken to the teams, were they actually told to switch? I have not see any press release or any marketing efforts to give Ohlins a reason to force them (or bmw to force them due to an agreement with ohlins). It would seem if that were the case they would want the advertising value...I don't even see decals on the car.

Any other info?

Assuming they just started running the Ohlins, if they are already competitive and upto speed, thats pretty good.

Regardless of the dampers though, i'm still amazed at the speeds these guys carry in those cars. Its by far the most exciting racing I can find today.

I just checked the qualifying sessions for this season and I only saw two instances where Andy out qualified another BMW.

Have you tried calling RRT? When I dealt with them, they always returned my phone calls and worked with me on everything. I know that the SA Ohlins were not available when I had them set me something up, but you can always have them set you up with the DAs.:)

Thats the vendor I spoke of not returning my emails or calls. I hit up several of the RRT guys on this board, nothing. I called RRT directly, left messages, nothing. I emailed various people from RRT, nothing. Apparently they really dont care about my business.

Thats the vendor I spoke of not returning my emails or calls. I hit up several of the RRT guys on this board, nothing. I called RRT directly, left messages, nothing. I emailed various people from RRT, nothing. Apparently they really dont care about my business.

Ditto.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "fragile?"

We keep going thru shims stack....

From the Ohlins manual...

''The flow through these apertures
is regulated by shims (thin steel washers)
that at high pressure are deflected to open for
the fluid. On some models the needle valves can
be set individually.
By altering the size of the shims-stack (ie,
number, thickness, diameter) the characteristics
of the damping action can be varied (this shall
only be done by Öhlins authorized service workshops).''

The last part = :devillook

We found the car to respond exceptionnally well with the thin shims stack, but unfortunately they seem to rupture or crack rather easily. We went to see the Ohlins guys, and the response we got is that is was basically a compromise. You either go with thick and loose performance but gain life expectancy or go thin and replace them every 3-4 race weekend. They also suggested to change them if we happened to go agricultural pretty bad even if they were new.The simptoms when they go bad is basically a blown shock absorber.

But after driving the car with the thin shims stack, it was clear for us that the performance gain was worth the trouble of changing them periodically. It's just like any other part... optimal performance always comes with a compromise... ( I guess)...:rolleyes

So have we confirmed Andy is switching to Ohlins? I was under the assumption he was staying with moton since he is the only car with the decal left.There's a worldwide shortage of Ohlins decals and BMW Motorsport was not happy when Andy's car showed up with stickers that said, "Olean". P&G then had an injunction against the team because Olean is a registered trademark. At that point the head engineer looked in the bottom of the toolbox and found a couple of Moton decals. My contact said that they had to go through eight decals before they found a matching set that didn't have Motown screen printed on them.

JJ I will buy you a beer for that one, you gonna be at Miller?

-tony

Tony,

I'll be at Miller (I fly out tomorrow). I'll be taking care of my car and the GTO. We will be over by the GP garages but the GTO and BMW will be under the tent right across from the garage. Just look for an all black GTO and white BMW (yin and yang). Ask for John and everyone will know who you are looking for.

I run Motown shocks on my car (the chili three way ones). I like the rhythm of them compared to the Oleans. From what I've heard, the Oleans will give you some pretty good toots though.

BTW: I like good beer so much, I even stashed a case of Leffe down in the passenger footwell of my car.

Lol, funny man. :stickoutt

rebuilding every 3-4 weekends is not bad if you want to be competitive though. Its not much work and as long as its done properly, it should be a reliable and consistent method for having a faster car. Good to hear you are getting the most out of the dampers though.

Lol, funny man. :stickoutt

rebuilding every 3-4 weekends is not bad if you want to be competitive though. Its not much work and as long as its done properly, it should be a reliable and consistent method for having a faster car. Good to hear you are getting the most out of the dampers though.
There's a reason why I spent a month mapping out all of the suspension points on my car and have the front running at 2.3Hz and the rear at 2.2Hz. I don't pull these numbers out of my hiney (or do I?). I want to do E90 stuff as E46 is getting way too old. I might be doing E90 stuff but only my wife and my two sons know the answer to that question. Luckily, my wife has more important things to do and my sons are too young to type.

There's a reason why I spent a month mapping out all of the suspension points on my car and have the front running at 2.3Hz and the rear at 2.2Hz. I don't pull these numbers out of my hiney (or do I?). I want to do E90 stuff as E46 is getting way too old. I might be doing E90 stuff but only my wife and my two sons know the answer to that question. Luckily, my wife has more important things to do and my sons are too young to type.

Damn, it took you a month, why so long? Was it during the race season?

I wish there were more open suspension rules for GAC, and WCT too, because you can do a lot with suspension on these cars...but i guess they want to keep budgets down.

Have you tested with difference roll center heights?

Did you determine those frequencies from calculations, or were those what you ended up with after testing?

Did you get your cars on a K&C rig or shaker? Any data on your chassis' natural frequency? :)

rebuilding every 3-4 weekends is not bad if you want to be competitive though. Its not much work and as long as its done properly, it should be a reliable and consistent method for having a faster car. Good to hear you are getting the most out of the dampers though.

Yeah exactly, we decided we like the feeling and the shims stack are cheap enough. I won't complaint knowing some rebuild MOTORS every 3-4 races, lol..

That $10-12K damper change can get expensive though. What is special about these Ohlins used on the BMW "team" cars? Number of adjustments? Bodies made of Unobtanium? Just trying to figure out where the costs are. :)

Moton 4-way are $11k for E46, so not that much cheaper.