Very very good. So with 225k miles on my M50TU I have been replacing lots of bits with new goodies recently. Last weekend it was time for the new injectors from Five-O motosports.
http://homepage.mac.com/ihaddock/Forums/NewInjectors.jpg
As you can see from they came ready to go. Just plug them in.

So after a week of driving I have to say its probably one of the best $300 I've spent. Gas milage is up, and i was getting 31 freeway 25 local before, the rough idle is smooth, and the long start-up is now just a quick flip of the key. Its really changed the performance of the engine. Before it felt a little overwhelmed by the mass of the car, but now things feel balanced.

M5mini,

Good to hear that improvements on your car!!

Will this changing of new injectors be the same as ultrasonically cleaning them? was thinking to go for cleaning...

Sounds good, man. If only I were getting 3/5 of your gas mileage... I'm currently showing 12.5 MPG on the OBC... with combined city and highway. :mad

Did you try injector cleaner first (fuel additive) or go straight for new injectors?

I've got dirty injectors but changing them looks like a PITA

Yes, how do you know when it's time to replace the injectors and when did you get to them? What did you replace before the injectors?

Very very good. So with 225k miles on my M50TU I have been replacing lots of bits with new goodies recently. Last weekend it was time for the new injectors from Five-O motosports.
http://homepage.mac.com/ihaddock/Forums/NewInjectors.jpg
As you can see from they came ready to go. Just plug them in.

So after a week of driving I have to say its probably one of the best $300 I've spent. Gas milage is up, and i was getting 31 freeway 25 local before, the rough idle is smooth, and the long start-up is now just a quick flip of the key. Its really changed the performance of the engine. Before it felt a little overwhelmed by the mass of the car, but now things feel balanced.

:)Nice! Okay, now, so you say it was as simple as a plug-in right? I assume that these are "performance" injectors and not OE. Am I correct?

bf.c is great so its fun to be able to add to the conversation... So I got them from: http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsBMW.asp They are cleaned and flow matched OEM reconditioned injectors. I have read bosch rates these type injectors at 80k miles, and performance oriented people have suggested 60k as a good replacement point.

They were dead simple to replace. I tried cleaners on my Rx-7 a few years back and never felt any improvement. The BMW was much better after the first drive. As for MPG, us M50TU drivers may be slower, but 600miles per tank is a nice bonus. :buttrock

An ebay shop has reconditioned injectors for ~$100 :confused.

In a car worth $2000 I don't know if my broke ass can justify $300, since a whole engine is only $600.

An ebay shop has reconditioned injectors for ~$100 :confused.

In a car worth $2000 I don't know if my broke ass can justify $300, since a whole engine is only $600.

...JUSTIFY?:lol Why, there's no such word in my vocabulary! Go ahead and get em!!!!!! There's always a paper route!

An ebay shop has reconditioned injectors for ~$100 :confused.

In a car worth $2000 I don't know if my broke ass can justify $300, since a whole engine is only $600.

dude you are driving a BMW!!! its worth it.

If you think of it as regular maintenance then the $300 isn't much at all. One more thing I don't have to worry about - and hey, when I put in a S50TU-US I can swap these injectors in!

600 miles to the tank, must be nice :)

Yes, how do you know when it's time to replace the injectors and when did you get to them? What did you replace before the injectors?

bump!

sounds good. i guess next month i'll probably get a set.

Yes, how do you know when it's time to replace the injectors and when did you get to them? What did you replace before the injectors?

When the idle is rough and you've replaced all the air control bits (which I did) and plugs. I think 60-80k miles is the suggested service window of this type of fuel injector - but thats unsubstantiated as I cant find the reference.

Went to the Movies today, average mpg on the highway windows down and scooting along (more than the national speed limit, not fast enough to get in trouble)? 32mpg. :alright From my house to the train station (about 1.5 miles) 26mpg. Thats cold start, in morning traffic, and back again that night. Sweet.

32mpg. :alright From my house to the train station (about 1.5 miles) 26mpg.

Meh. I can get 35mpg if I leave the car in 5th and let it roll down hill :stickoutt

Hey, thanks for posting this thread.

My idle has always been a little hiccupy even though the RPM is quite constant. Lately I've been getting a slightly prolonged start when the car has been sitting for 24 hours or so. I mean it's probably hard to describe in words, but ... just the car doesn't fire right up immediately, more like it kind of limps to life, then it's running fine.

I went to 50 motorsports site, and they had brand new design III Bosch 0280155710 /Ford injectors for $350 /set of 8, so I bought a set. Not at all a bad price, I figure, if new injectors are less than $50 each. And they're kinda cool looking, though I suppose I'll never see em, other than when I'm putting them in :)

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/PartsJPEGs/Injectors/0280155710_Set8.jpg

Alright! Glad to see you went for it - I hope you have the same positive effect mine did. Can't wait to hear how it goes!

M5mini: Glad to hear the injectors helped out with the long start up. I've had the same annoying hiccup in my 535i. Mine cranks a little longer than I'd like and I'm hoping some new injectors will help the problem. When you say your replaced the "air control bits" you mean all the sensors? Which ones? I'd like to do the same. Thanks for the great post.

Ah, sorry. Shorthand getting in the way of communication. I replaced all the soft bits in the intake track. Everything below the intake from the throttle plates to the valves was replaced when I replaced the ACV (Air Control Valve -- and idle & A/C related bit) and VaNoS system.

It is probably worth looking into vacuum leaks as well for your long startup problem, but other may know more. Good luck!

No need, put in my new Bosch injectors about two weeks ago and my 535 is now a different animal. No more hesitation, tire squealing acceleration at green lights and reliable startup cold or hot. Like you said, best 300 I ever spent!

Bosche why not Ford. Which part number did you go for, there are a few bosche ones?

I'm confused about which ones to get?

Wow that sounds great.

Are there any aftermarket or upgraded injectors available? I hate spending money on a replacement stock part.

Wow that sounds great.

Are there any aftermarket or upgraded injectors available? I hate spending money on a replacement stock part.

I believe any Ford Mustang or Crown Vic 20 lb injector (made by Bosch) is compatible with the M30 engine. I am not sure about the M60. There are a number of eBay sellers who sell reconditioned ones for anything from $50 and up for a set (eBay search Ford 20 injector). They are a 4 hole design which, supposedly, produce a better spray pattern than the stock single pintle.

I've got a set in my garage waiting for me to install them. Yet another unfinished task........

I believe any Ford Mustang or Crown Vic 20 lb injector (made by Bosch) is compatible with the M30 engine. I am not sure about the M60. There are a number of eBay sellers who sell reconditioned ones for anything from $50 and up for a set (eBay search Ford 20 injector). They are a 4 hole design which, supposedly, produce a better spray pattern than the stock single pintle.



Thanks for the info! I'm going to have to look into this more. What advantages would I see with upgraded injectors? Would it be compatible with an engine chip?

Thanks for the info! I'm going to have to look into this more. What advantages would I see with upgraded injectors? Would it be compatible with an engine chip?

From my understanding and research the stock injectors are @ 19 lbs (for my car anyway) so as long as you stay close to the stock pressure with a similar injector you should be fine. Aftermarket chips expect certain injector performance so if you put in something way out of whack (like a 20 lb injector in a M20 engine) you will have problems with both the stock and aftermarket chip which would require new fuel curves be mapped.

If you think about it the injector is an electrically controlled fuel valve into your combustion chamber. Your DME guages how long to turn it on based on a number of factors; speed, engine load, engine temp throttle position etc. In order to put in just the right amount of fuel it also needs to know how fast the injector flows (pressure rating) so a bigger injector is not necessarily a good thing unless the DME knows it. So there really is no real advantage to upgrading except that the injector flows cleaner when new or reconditioned.

It was a whole lot easier when all you had to do was add an edelbrock intake manifold and 4 barrel carb (but know I am dating myself)

No need, put in my new Bosch injectors about two weeks ago and my 535 is now a different animal. No more hesitation, tire squealing acceleration at green lights and reliable startup cold or hot. Like you said, best 300 I ever spent!

How long does it take to do the injector swap on the 535i? Do you need any additional parts (o rings, etc)? How much stuff do you have to pull to get to them?

Thanks

A professonal style injector cleaning may be needed, not always replacement of the injectors. This is where they hook up a pressurized tank of cleaner directly to the fuel rail.

Hmmm..... looks like I'll be doing this next paycheck :mad

After moving the car 50m (I hid it last night, don't ask) I popped the hood to check the oil level. Dam injectors are leaking...... stupid f**king car :)

After 182000 miles I'm pretty certain the injectors need replacing not just cleaning, they're only supppoed to last like 80000 miles or something, lol.

How long does it take to do the injector swap on the 535i? Do you need any additional parts (o rings, etc)? How much stuff do you have to pull to get to them?

Thanks

Hmm, it was kind of a tough. You have to remove the fuel rail and all the wiring above it. That was the worst part because all that wiring is still connected to the innards of the car and doesn't have much clearance to move out of the way of the injectors. After that the injectors were easy to pop out but took a bit of muscle to pop back in. At one point I had to stand on top of my engine to get enough leverage to get the ones towards the back of the engine. Get some rags too, once you pop them out of the fuel rail, gas will come streaming steadily out. Total time, doing it for the first time, probably about 2 1/2 hours.

The Bentley (http://www.amazon.com/BMW-E34-Service-Manual-1989-1995/dp/0837603196) has a good step by step.

so the best bet would be to run a 19lb injector.. its so tempting to try and juice it up with a stronger injector. Could this throw the car out of whack?..

Has any of you guys purchased injectors on Ebay?

The price is really tempting

unfourtunatly, I cannot post a link however when you search M30 injectors a number of 19lb Bosch choices pop up.

The injectors in my 535I are leaking so I need to order something quick.

Please comment...

i know which ones you're talking about.. but $50 sounds too good to be true if you ask me. i think im gonna bite the bullet and get mine from five o at some point

This maintenance item sounds great to replace on my 171k m20. I doubt the injectors have ever been replaced. I do have an extra set of injectors from my other m20 engine.

Have anyone self cleaned their injectors? I have two sonicating machines at work and was wondering if sonicating them under heat in ethanol would be efficient at cleaning them throughly?

so the best bet would be to run a 19lb injector.. its so tempting to try and juice it up with a stronger injector. Could this throw the car out of whack?..

juice it up? adding more fuel won't make it go any faster, and might make it go slower. the closed loop system would probably just lean it out during normal operation, but when you're open loop (during startup) you'd be too rich, with no benefit other than just wasting gas and adding buildup to other parts.

the only reason to add a stronger injector is if you're adding more fuel through mods or forced injection.

Try it and let us know. My $300 dollar design III injectors are getting installed tomorrow, if you save yourself the money (and someone else) its a worthy course of action

Five-o sold me a set of 6 'take-off' design III injectors a couple years ago for $120. Even slightly used, they were MUCH better than the 190k stockers. Made a nice difference in driveability.

juice it up? adding more fuel won't make it go any faster, and might make it go slower. the closed loop system would probably just lean it out during normal operation, but when you're open loop (during startup) you'd be too rich, with no benefit other than just wasting gas and adding buildup to other parts.

the only reason to add a stronger injector is if you're adding more fuel through mods or forced injection.

ic.. thanks!

Going with a bigger injector, err one that has a higher flow rate, is something that you should do only when you need to support additional horsepower. When you go to FI you need to calculate the flow rate for the application. From this number, you can determine what injector rating to use. For this, you take into account the minimum fuel in lb/hr and then determine what injector will give you a safe duty cycle.

Has anyone tried getting them cleaned? Similar results?

I've read that the M30's fuel economy is partly due to its old-design injectors. Are there any upgrades to make the engine more efficient, if no more powerful?

I've read that the M30's fuel economy is partly due to its old-design injectors. Are there any upgrades to make the engine more efficient, if no more powerful?
I doubt that, I'm no pro but how could there be waste caused by the injectors?

I'm guessing the engine is getting the amount of fuel it needs otherwise it'd be running rich... no?

Or does the way the fuel jet is formed by the injector matter for the combustion and consumption?

gives you another 100 miles per tank..might have to get some of these.

Where did you pirchase these at?

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/Constructo003_photos/HPIM0260-1.jpg

Has anyone tried getting them cleaned? Similar results?
I work at a dealership and decided to try using the fuel induction and fuel injector cleaning system by BG. This is where you tap directly into the fuel rail and run the engine purely on the cleaner. It's also designed to clean some of the carbon buildup in the intake manifold, behind the valves, and in the combustion chamber. Their products have great results on the Infinitis, so I decided to give them a try. Verdict: Didn't really feel a difference after cleaning them out. Idle and drivability was still the same. It makes more sense to replace the injectors just to get rid of the old design/spray pattern for a better more modern design.

gives you another 100 miles per tank..might have to get some of these.

Where did you pirchase these at?

It makes more sense to replace the injectors just to get rid of the old design/spray pattern for a better more modern design.

So...new injectors do help economy (and presumably emissions)?

Would there be a difference with a currently designed injector for an older car, like a 90 e34, vs the factory injectors professionally cleaned? Mechanical difference? Material difference?

I decided to go for it and purchase ebay injectors for 49 + 10 for shipping. I figured you cannot go wrong with this price. The seller's feedback was 100%, so I hope it'll stay that way :)

I will do a write up after installation and 300 miles of driving.

Currently #2 and #4 are leaking and I get, on average, 17.5 mpg. 50/50 city/hiway driving

I'm under the impression that ultrasonically cleaned with new filters IS considered "reconditioned".
Fuel tank cleaners can remove some deposits but there is a small filter screen on each injector that inhibits flow when dirty, no amount of additive can change that.
There are lots of companies that do it for ~$20 each.

OK, I did not know about the filters. Those would need to be replaced if there was buildup.

So I got them installed last night. What a difference in terms of throttle response and acceleration! I'd say 15% improvement.

Not sure about the fuel economy yet.

However, I have a problem. My 535I throws a CHECK ENGINE light when ideling. Once the RPMs go up, the light goes off.

Anyone had a similar issue?

Any advice?

Thanks

Alex

So I got them installed last night. What a difference in terms of throttle response and acceleration! I'd say 15% improvement.

Not sure about the fuel economy yet.

However, I have a problem. My 535I throws a CHECK ENGINE light when ideling. Once the RPMs go up, the light goes off.

Anyone had a similar issue?

Any advice?

Thanks

Alex

Stomp test, post the results.

Stomp test, post the results.

Never done one. What is the sequence for 1990 E34?

I figured out how to do the test, but as the check engine lite blinks through the sequence, the code display is blank. (no flashing codes at all).
I tested the system running code dispaly test and everything works.

Because you count the number of blinks of the CEL. THIS is the code. Check here (http://bmwe34.net/e34main/trouble/engine_codes.htm)

Because you count the number of blinks of the CEL. THIS is the code. Check here (http://bmwe34.net/e34main/trouble/engine_codes.htm)

GOT IT, thank you. I'll try it this evening.

Any news alexosen?

As for me its still been a worth the upgrade time. No problems, more fuel economy and less stumble when merging with traffic or running through the gears. Not engine swap faster, but feels better than it did. Which is what I wanted to accomplish.

BTW Alexosen, I have those wheels with tires downstairs now ready for install. How do you like them (they are 16" from an e38 right?) any rub on the struts? (/thread jack)

Looks like injectors are next on my list as well. Can not get this rough idle to stay away.

Any news alexosen?

As for me its still been a worth the upgrade time. No problems, more fuel economy and less stumble when merging with traffic or running through the gears. Not engine swap faster, but feels better than it did. Which is what I wanted to accomplish.

BTW Alexosen, I have those wheels with tires downstairs now ready for install. How do you like them (they are 16" from an e38 right?) any rub on the struts? (/thread jack)

I thought I posted the results few days ago, but I guess it didn't get posted. So, for the first 2-3 days the engine rumbled funny, sounded like misfires and the check engine was on during idle.
Then one day, before I had a chance to worry about it, everything started working normally. I have exactly the same results as yours. 10% more power and better accelaration response. For $60 - I am very happy.
In terms of the rims, I had to replace the E38 stock tires to 225/50/16 and I never had any problems. They fit perfectly, however you don't want to have anything less then 50 because the wheels will look to small.